Football Debate Forum

Are Privately Owned Stadiums Only Way For Italian Teams To Prosper?

2012-06-15T14:33:00.007-04:00

Hot Topic: Following the undoubtable success of Juventus this season, who recently opened their state of the art Juventus Stadium in Turin, are privately owned stadiums the only way for Italian teams to be able to compete financially with the rest of Europe?

For this question, we will be joined by Aaron Giambattista from Juventiknows

Aaron Giambattista (@Agiamba)

The jury is still out on whether UEFA's Financial Fair Play will be enforced or not, but it doesn't matter for Italian clubs. In the last decade, Spain and England has eclipsed Serie A in prominence- much of it is due to self-inflicted problems like Calciopoli, but the gap in revenue is most concerning in the long run. In Italy, the stadiums are council-owned, and thus the teams cannot extract full revenue, nor can they make improvements to expand revenue. The clearest case is Cagliari, who have moved their "home games" over a thousand kilometers away because of the decrepit state of their stadium. The clubs have been overly reliant on TV revenue, and thus, exclusion from the Champion's League causes a major problem for Italian clubs.

Juventus launched an ambitious plan under the old Triade, buying out the much hated Stadio Delle Alpi and demolishing it for a new stadium. The old stadium was cavernous, had poor views, and few amenities. The Juventus Stadium, opened in summer 2011, has seating close to the pitch, a number of bars, restaurants, a shopping centre, a museum, and of course, a Juventus store. In matchday revenue alone, the stadium has tripled in revenue for Juventus, essentially matching Champion's League revenue. It's far from matching clubs in England, Germany, and Spain, but a step in the right direction in growing revenue and establishing self-reliance.

Matteo Bonetti

As it stands, Italian teams make almost 40% less revenue than ones with privately owned stadiums in other countries. It is a serious handicap for a league which has slipped to fourth place overall, and in turn lost a precious Champions League spot to the Bundesliga. The success of Juventus this season in their new state of the art Juventus Stadium cannot be questioned. Never mind the intimidating, hulking stands hugging the pitch, or the premium seating which generates plenty of revenue - the sheer aesthetics of the stadium are enough to draw interest from even the most lukewarm casual fan in Torino.

Without getting into the whole boring Financial Fair Play, let's dumb down the most pressing issue in Italy right now. 90% of the stadiums are garbage. Old, withered monuments built before Christ, with outdated technology and shoddy pitches which resemble a slob of grass found right off the interstate. When you add these factors along with the olympic track surrounding nearly every pitch, the atmosphere that drives fans to go get off their couch and turn off the HD T.V. are nearly eliminated. In Bergamo, the poor fans of Atalanta are jailed behind metal bars and looming plexiglass stands like caged animals. So many stadiums around the Serie A which are publicly owned by the cities are an embarrassment to the league. Really, a Euro/World Cup competition could save these artifacts - but the quickest move to success would be for teams to follow in the footsteps of Juventus..

However, easier said than done..

Can Italy Replicate Success Of '06/'82 Sides?

2012-06-09T17:43:00.001-04:00

Hot Topic: Can the Italian National Team replicate the success of the 1982 & 2006 Italian sides that went on to win trophies after being hit by domestic scandals prior to tournaments? This year, betting scandals resulted in the exclusion of starting left back Domenico Criscito, as well as the ongoing investigations on other players, such as Leo Bonucci and Gigi Buffon

For this question, we will be joined by Francesco, formerly of the Italy Offside, and now found on twitter at @Francescalcio

Francesco (Francescalcio)

Italy hit by a scandal? That news wasn't surprising. In fact, many thought it was a good thing that this terrible Calcioscommesse scandal hit the peninsula. The last times scandal hit the nation, Italy won the tournaments (1982, 2006). Italy could use this scandal as motivation again and try to prove to the world that Italy is not just a nation of controversy, they can play football too. This Azzurri side reminds me of the Euro 2000 side. Yes, the Euro 2000 side was ten times more talented than this squad, but the inconsistent results leading up to the tournament and the low expectations are the same. That Euro 2000 side also had a young star wanting to explode (Totti) just like this squad has Balotelli. Is this the most talented Azzurri side of all time? Of course not. However Cesare Prandelli is a bright manager and if the squad can play as a united group there is enough talent and quality to go very far in Euro 2012.

I think the Spain match will play a big part in deciding how far Italy can go. If they can get a positive result, the enthusiasm and motivation can take the side far. A bad result however could bring lots of bad media pressure and low morale, leading to poor performances in the last two group games. I'm not worried about the defense, as Daniele De Rossi can more than hold his own as a central defender. In fact, De Rossi as a central defender could be a positive, as he is excellent as long passes, and he could start attacks from the back. With all the Juventus players having the best seasons of their career, that can only help the Azzurri. Up front, the Balotelli-Cassano duo has the potential to be the most lethal at the tournament if both players are on their game. And finally, while Italy's bench doesn't look to be the best in the tournament, they have some lesser known players like Diamanti and Giaccherini who can come in and change a game with one play, as well as experience in Antonio Di Natale who may decide to finally replicate his Udinese form with the Nazionale kit on. Whatever the result, it should be a very interesting Euro 2012 for Italy.

Matteo Bonetti

Another tournament, another scandal. Italian players are clearly not sneaky enough with their sinister actions - as it seems the Serie A is the only league that catches their players betting illegally. The Italian National team is one that dominated in the group stages, but is now posing plenty of question marks as Coach Cesare Prandelli has to tinker with his formation after being embarrassed by Russia in last weeks 3-0 defeat. The 4-3-3 that was used then clearly was not the apt formation for a defensive line that mostly flourishes in a 3-5-2 formation. Maggio has the defensive properties of a tulip petal, and Leo Bonucci was exposed at the back. After Barzagli's injury, Prandelli is now forced to thrust Daniele De Rossi in the 3 man back line against Spain. However, what separates this team from the one in 2006 is lack of experience, particularly up front. Although some of the stalwarts from 2006 remain, such as Pirlo and Buffon, the attacking duo of Cassano & Balotelli is as mercurial as any.

Needless to say, the 2006 side had a bit of luck to even get the the semifinals against Germany, when they previously faced the mediocre pairing of Ukraine and Australia. Lady luck will need to be on this current team as well. If there's any good news, it's that Italy is a side that has notoriously under performed against minnows, and shown up in the important matches against well respected sides. Need I remind you the last friendly match Italy & Spain had together, when the Azzurri came out of the gates looking more like Barcelona than the usual catenaccio-like sides of the past. Even if Italy bow out of the competition prematurely, this is a side that has little expectations compared to some of the other flavor of the month sides (Germany), and could really appreciate their roles as underdogs. Expect a pleasant surprise against Spain, and one of the most aesthetically pleasing Azzurri sides of the past decade.

Final Verdict: Second in group. Semifinals of Euro.

Has Real Madrid Ended The Famous Barcelona Cycle?

2012-06-08T11:51:00.001-04:00

Hot Topic: Has Real Madrid ended the famous Barcelona cycle of the past half-decade. After being knocked out of the Champions League by Chelsea, and seeing their legendary coach Pep Guardiola leave the club, has Barcelona taken a backseat to the La Liga winners Real Madrid?

For this question, we will be joined by Ade C. of Barcelona Offside (@BarcaTheOffside) and Sarah B. from @RealMadridPlace, as well as our own Matteo Gallinaro (@RMadridDecima)

Matteo Gallinaro (RMadridDecima)

This will be uncustomary, as I am not a fan of making predictions of this sort, but today I shall make a bold statement nonetheless: Real Madrid have ended the Barcelona cycle at the Camp Nou when they won 2-1. Barcelona was dismantled physically and mentally by Real Madrid by the end of the year, as they did not have the athleticism to compete with the stronger, hungrier, more physical and deeper bench of Real Madrid.

The psychological cycle was broken in the Copa del Rey match at the Camp Nou that ended 2-2. Once Benzema scored the equalizer around the 70’, the Camp Nou for the first time had trembled in a long while against Real Madrid and seemed vulnerable for once. Barcelona will be highly competitive, but if Real can repeat a similar year in la Liga, Tito’s current Barcelona will stand no chance.

Final Verdict: Yes. The potent Barcelona that we have witnessed for the past 3 years has lost its edge.

Sarah C (RealMadridPlace)

I would go with a firm no. Nonetheless, Real Madrid enjoyed a superb season and most people would agree that Madrid have had the upper hand over rivals, Barcelona. Head to head competition between Real Madrid and Barcelona have been very heated and unpredictable this past season. People may think that Barcelona's cycle has ended with Pep leaving, but I for one think that Pep's philosophy is staying for a long time.

The reason I answered with a no is because most Madridistas already thought that we ended Barcelona's cycle when the score ended 1-1 in the Bernabeu in April 2011 and a few days later we won at Mestalla the Copa del Rey final against them. We felt great and that we ended their cycle, but may I remind you what happened a few days after that in the Champions League? Barcelona qualified to the final while we didn't. It's hard to say whether we broke their cycle, we'll just have to wait and see how the upcoming Super Cup unfolds.

Final verdict: A firm no.

Ade C. (BarcaTheOffside)

Because I'm very contrary, I'm going to answer by rejecting the question on two counts: one, that there was a Barcelona cycle to break; and two, that Real Madrid had anything to do with it (or whatever it was) coming to an end.

We've been hearing about the 'end of the cycle' of Pep's Barça since... um, the first time they lost a match after winning the 'Triplete', and then after the Six Cups, and when they failed to reach the CL final due to Mourinho's Inter, and after the first time they failed to score more than a handful of goals against Real Madrid. Every minor setback has been interpreted as the end of the era and the return of the losing ways that every true Barça fan, in their heart of hearts, is convinced are always just around the corner. But I mantain that Barça's football doesn't evolve in such a pedestrian way as a 'cycle', but rather in a straight(ish) line, with its up and downs, but also a clear direction: from the beginnings of La Masía, through Cryuff and Guardiola and barrelling towards the future, Barça keeps building and improving on what has come before and will continue to do so, even without Pep.

But even if we admit the existence of this mythical 'cycle' and interpret it as Pep Guardiola's era and the obscene amount of trophies earned during, can we point the finger at Real Madrid for bringing it to an end? No. Real Madrid had an impeccable season, broke a boatload of Liga records and were worthy Liga winners, but the problems that plagued Barça didn't come from there. A combination of exhaustion (these players have been playing all available competitions with both club and country for four years, without a break), unbelievable bad luck with injuries and illness (the absences of Eric Abidal and David Villa, to mention but two cases, cannot be ignored) and the inability to get a win in some crucial matches in spite of almost total domination (hello, Chelsea!) doomed Barça to the terrible fate of only winning four trophies this season. Alas, would that all cycles ended like this!

As always, we encourage comments. Just remember to keep it respectful. Comments with excessive vulgarity will be REMOVED immediately

Can Milan Remain Competitive In Europe?

2012-06-07T10:54:00.000-04:00

Hot Topic: Can Milan remain competitive in Europe despite their recent transfer history of signing free transfers at the end of their current contracts, and also taking into account the possibility of Milan's two best remaining players, Ibrahimovic & Silva, leaving the club this summer to wealthy teams lining up for their services..

For this question, we will be joined by Pete Acquaviva, Milan writer for both Rossoneriblog.com & TheMilanGuy.com

Pete Acquaviva

The Milan Group, composing of Fininvest, president Silvio Berlusconi's holding company, as well as Milan's entertainment and Real Estate divisions have lost around €65m per year per year over the last several years. Swiss Ramble puts the calculation (using Deloitte information) at €386m losses in the last four years. This is a very alarming number for a club trying to modernize and compete on multiple fronts. There have been a few years of little to no loss, notably 2009 (sales of Kaká and Gourcuff for €80m combined) and in 06 with the sale of Andriy Shevchenko. By and large, though, selling players is simply not enough to make up these losses that exist. The losses are actually not cumulative, however, as Silvio Berlusconi's holding company Finnavest has paid down the debt at the end of the year, leaving Milan with no debt, but no new models. This ends up costing Silvio about €50m - €70m euros per season. It wipes the debt slate clean every year, but this policy does not deal with the underlying issues that cause the deficit.

Talismanic striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic has even come out and say there is no money (which a look at the books will confirm). There are many issues that need to be looked at within the club, starting from the player personnel (who need an overhaul to compete for the highest honors) medical staff, marketing policy, stadium construction, as well as youth development. The positive aspect of the stadium development as well as the youth growth is that spending in those sectors does not count against Financial Fair Play - which will have it's first monitoring period beginning in the 12-13 season. What Milan need to do to be competitive is build smart, not build extravagantly.

This brings us back to the original question - can Milan remain competitive. I believe they can. It's going to require a significant amount of luck as well as some guile from Galliani and Braida with their transfer plans. Signing four internationals at low to no cost over the past two years (Aquilani [at the time], Nocerino, Traoré, Montolivo) has shown that the shift has gone from spending large sums on individual players and gone to finding players with experience but without the price tag. This isn't a new phenomenon, as Milan used to go shopping in the low-priced Brazilian market years ago, before it became an emerging market with clubs that possess more wealth and pull than Milan does in their current financial climate. Milan continue to bring in Brazilians, but one has to figure the high profile transfers of players like Ganso, Neymar, Damaio, Lucas, Casemiro.. etc is going to be less of the rule and more the exception.

How will Milan go about building their new squad, with this absence of funds as well as the fact many other clubs are now shopping in their "bargain" shopping locations? Galliani hates competition. He prefers to deal in the shadows, which is why you will see more false rumors than true rumors coming even from the inner-workings of Via Turati. His ideal target is one in which he is the only one negotiating. It keeps the price down. Now more than ever, expect him to deal in secrecy. But what sorts of players can or will he bring in? The answer to this depends on the sale of some larger players, with Thiago Silva, Robinho, Pato, and Zlatan Ibrahimovic immediately coming to mind (not coincidentally, the highest wage earners on the squad). If funds around €40m could come in then there might be a larger transformation. If no one is sold, there may only be small movements, with a focus on keeping the wage bill low. What is clear is that there are a lack of funds available, and unless Milan sell, they will spend frugally again, much like last summer.

Can they be competitive against a squad like Juventus who now have a new stadium (which provides a large portion of match day revenue -- a significant issue on the Milan budget) and have reinforced their squad with the likely additions of Paul Pogba, Kwadwo Asamoah, and Mauicio Isla? I believe they can be competitive on a domestic front, however there is something lacking from a European Cup bid. That being said, Champions League winners Chelsea were built similarly to last year's Milan squad, and they were able to overcome all challengers for the title, which allowed them massive monetary windfalls, to fund their transfers. Milan never made this sort of massive reinvestment in 2007, during their last CL success. Expecting it this year seems unlikely. Frugality will be the policy going forward, but it most likely won't work in Europe. Then again, as mentioned by Galliani, the focus of the team is domestic, and it is likely that Allegri is only here to win the league. His strategy and tactics thus far also suggest this.

Final Verdict: Domestically not Continentally

Matteo Bonetti

Despite Milan being in debt because of financial woes (dear Berlu: build a private stadium = earn more! Simple economics), their business model in the transfer market has been based on a few noteworthy principles: Namely, finding quality players in the world's bargain bin, who for whatever reason (they are crazy) came with a 50% coupon wrapped around their heads from previous clubs. Rewind back to a few summers ago, when Galliani's coups included Kevin Prince Boateng, Robinho, and Ibrahimovic. Can we really complain so much about the higher-lings not throwing any bones to the fans? Granted, last years 'mercato' spawned a much less salivating name in the form of Alberto Aquilani that arrived to us free, a supposed playmaking maestro on the field, who in the end was about as offensive as a stale cabbage patch.

However, the real issue on the mind of Milanisti is this summer. After throwing away the Scudetto in emphatic fashion, and totaling the year with the same number of cups that S.S. Poggibonsi put in their cabinet, Milan fans might have a reason to worry. Namely, their two major stars, Ibrahimovic & Silva, have been linked to <insert club owned by insanely rich Sheikh who has singlehandedly inflated the market> for the past month, with Ibrahimovic coming out in the media and saying:

Milan does not have the money to purchase more than a few players. I need to see the project they talked about being put back in action

We all knew signing Ibrahimovic came with a 2-3 expiration date, and the fact that he scored more than 4 times the amount of the NEXT striker on the hitlist is alarming. However, stay calm my friends.

Simply put: Berlusconi will never let the team succumb to the depths of anonymity. I don't know how he does it, and to be quite frank from the stories you hear from nuns who gave him lap dances, I really don't want to know many more details, but the fact of the matter is he finds a way. He has found a way to make Milan relevant for more than two decades. I am not an economist, and I could care less about his net worth/income. All I want is a competitive team, and judging from a plethora of interviews through the years, Silvio does as well. That, my friends, is what we share in common with a man who Ronaldinho described as, 'the ideal clubbing partner'.

Anyway, expect a surprising mercato. Montolivo and Bakaye Traore will not be the premier signings. If Silva is sold, Milan will purchase a formidable defender for 1/10th the price (Acerbi) who has room to grow and eventually be a fine Champions League player as well. Expect a Robinho swap to Santos, and in return receive a real trequartista, who is the most pivotal player in Allegri's highly predictable 4-3-1-2 formation. Expect Milan to keep the improving left back Didac Vila, who just finished a full season at Espanyol and has been drawing interest from the likes of Liverpool and Valencia. In the end, expect a team that will remain competitive in the Serie A, and quite honestly, if Chelsea was able to win the Champions League, Milan could as well. The major question mark will lie on the fragile muscles of Ale Pato, who just recently gave a remarkable performance for Brazil v. USA. If Alexandre Berlusconi is able to stay healthy, he could easily total 20-28 goals in the Serie A, and be the world class striker we all know he is capable of becoming.

Final Verdict: Competitive domestically, and with luck, in Europe as well