In this episode, we chat with Krystian, a Senior Project Engineer with the Australian Army, about his entrance into the Defence Force, and how he balanced his full-time degree commitment with his traditional defence training.

In this episode, we talk to Matt who works in logistics within the Australian Army. He’s able to shed light on the different types of roles you’ll find on an Army base and he shares some advice on what a career is like in the Army Reservices and the Defence more broadly.

In this episode, you will learn how Annika took a passion for health and exercise and made it a career with the Australian Army. She also goes into what the Kapooka training camp is like and what the day-to-day could look like as a Parachute Rigger.

In this episode, you will learn what Patrick does in the aviation arm of the Australian Navy, hear some stories from his time serving in the Middle East and receive some career advice on what it takes to be in the Navy.

In this episode, you will hear some detailed stories from Morgan’s time as a driver with the Australian Army. You will gain valuable insight into the admissions and training process for getting into the army or wider defence force.

• Why did you pick your course? 
• What was your course experience?
• What was your first job?
• What did you learn in this job?
• What was your next step?
• What is your advice?

Name: Emily

Age: 30

From: Human rights law into family law

Salary: From $56,500 at 23 to $127,000 at 29

The Working File: Why did you pick your course? 

Emily: I had an interest in health, women’s rights, and international development so I initially thought about doing a B. Arts that focused on international public health. My parents had different ideas, they thought that a law degree would be better… Coincidentally, once I started looking into it all I kind of figured that my skills would be better suited to helping women through the legal and policy sphere rather than in health programs, and so I started a law degree.

The Working File: What was your course experience enrolled in a Bachelor of Laws at the University of Sydney?

Emily: Law is just so, so competitive. Law cohorts are filled with overachievers. I went to the University of Sydney and I found the culture really intimidating at the beginning. In my opinion, there were only two ways to make ‘fast’ friends; – you went to college or you joined the Law Society. I made friends tutorials and lectures which is a bit more of a slow burn. I ended up joining the Law Society in my third year and I wish I had of done it earlier.

The course content itself is so great. I was really, really challenged in every subject and the lecturers are genuinely so passionate and engaged in your learning. I did my clerkship in a private practice that focused on criminal defence and family court work. I really loved this too. I wanted to do some volunteer work overseas that would utilise my legal skills, so in my final year of university I went to Tanzania for a month (in the break) and was part of a small team (between 2 and 5 people while I was there) providing legal and human rights advice to women’s groups and to boys held in a retention centre. We worked under the supervision of a local legally trained Tanzanian woman. Basically, we met with the women’s groups in churches, homes – sometimes even under a tree in a field; and we’d take turns providing presentations on an issue like inheritance law or the rights of children born out of wedlock and discussing the law and answering questions. We would often also meet with individual women seeking advice on their personal situation. All statutes are in English but everyone spoke Swahili, so the woman who ran the programme translated for us. 

I could not recommend this experience more. I learnt so much in the month. For example, you can have the best laws in the world but without equality of access to them that’s meaningless. I mean, Tanzania is a member of the Commonwealth and has a common law legal system, right? So, the rights of children in the criminal system is similar to what we have in Australia; but it seems to be routinely ignored by the local police.

For most of the questions we’d get there would be a customary, Islamic and statutory law answer – and which law applied depended on the religion of the person we were talking to. Again, really interesting… Some of the laws are very archaic. For example, children born out of wedlock generally have the same rights as other children, but that didn’t seem to be widely known.

The Working File: What was your first job?

After my experience in Africa, I was set on working in human rights – I remember downloading the 65 page UN Careers guide to read on the plane coming home. But I knew it was a competitive ‘pipe dream’. I started at a practice (which I won’t name in this) that was known to have excellent pro bono practice and a health law practice. I loved the pro bono stuff and worked on a variety of matters from human rights, to discrimination law, stolen generations cases and general pro bono management.

The Working File: What did you learn in your first role?

Emily: I think there were three key ‘take aways’ for me in this role. As a new graduate do not bother the senior staff with lots of questions intermittently. I think you should try and ask your questions at the time of being assigned a task. Sadly, law firms have a culture of ‘learn fast’ or ‘sink’. If I had a question during the day I’d write it down, and then once I had a few on the list I would ask my boss in one hit; and only do this once a day.

Secondly, I also think that it’s important to manage expectations. When you are assigned a task, ask what the expected turnaround time is and communicate whether you can meet the deadline. I had multiple partners, lawyers and graduates allocating tasks to me without full awareness of my workload. Managing expectations is key to doing well in your first job.

And third, have an opinion. Partners will often ask you what you think, so be ready to contribute, but don’t overdo it. Nobody expects you to provide huge lightbulb moments to career lawyers, but an ability to hear the question, digest your thoughts and compose an articulate reply is almost as valuable as the answer itself. But in saying that, just because someone in the room has mentioned negligence, spouting the first thing you remember from Torts isn’t a skill… so work on taking your time, and being considered in your opinions.

The Working File: What was your next step, and how did you land the six figure salary?

Emily: This answer is a bit of a cop out, but I am being honest – After three years at the firm I had realised that the actual day-to -day work I was doing on these human rights cases wasn’t that different from the work that other lawyers (say in commercial) were doing – just getting paid a lot less.

I’m a lawyer, which means my job is to understand, interpret and advise on the law, it’s just that my area of law is human rights. Like all lawyers, I have clients for whom I provide advice or represent before various forums. I take instructions and advise accordingly. It can be long days sitting in front of a computer reading reports and case law. I felt like the work was tedious – and often I wasn’t feeling the sense of reward that I thought I would because things move really slowly.

In Australia we don’t have a Commonwealth Human Rights Act, so protecting people’s human rights either means finding other laws which can achieve the same ends, such as discrimination laws, administrative law and so forth; or it means utilising UN Human Rights treaties and the treaty bodies. It also means that the job market here is small. This means the money isn’t as competitive… I was coming up to my mid-twenties and I decided I wanted to move for money.

I knew I didn’t have much variation of my resume and so family and criminal seemed like the easiest stepping-stone. I worked out the percentage of my work so that I could say that I’d done about 30% Family, 30% Crime and 40% other things, for example… and I found a mid level job in a criminal law firm and worked my way up to where I am today. I absolutely love family law. My salary has moved more in the last two years of my career than in the first five.

The Working File: What is your advice?

Emily: What I have learnt in my career is that all roads lead to Rome – what I mean is that there are so many ways that you can change the world and not all of them are as a human rights lawyer. Legal Aid and Community Legal Centres are on the front lines every day helping thousands upon thousands of individuals in desperate need of assistance. NGOs, charities and peak bodies are often involved in law reform and legal analysis. For the vast majority of people who really need help, a lawyer with knowledge of credit and debt issues, criminal law, family law and housing will be able to help them far more than an intricate knowledge of UN treaties. Both are important in their own way. This was probably the biggest piece of advice I can give.

The concept  ‘Snagging six figures’ was created after we had readers writing in asking for advice.

Do you want to submit your story, or have a suggestion of someone you want featured? Email us: samantha@thecareersdepartment.com

In this episode, you will learn what a combat systems operator does and gain a whole new understanding of how the Royal Australian Navy operates.

The Working File: Before we get started, can you tell us a bit about your job?

Mon, Social Worker: I am a support worker for teenage parents (under the age of 18).

These parents live in the organisation’s residential house, which provides supervision and support for them around the clock. We assist in supporting our clients to develop parenting skills, life skills (including organisational, education, child development, etc) and provide case management in all areas of their life (e.g. family/partner violence, mental health, trauma, etc.)

When parents transition out of the program, we assist them in finding stable accommodation for them and their children.

The Working File: What time do you start your shift?

Mon, Social Worker: I start my sleepover shift around 4pm.

I will come in and do handover. Essentially that is a time to catch up on what has been happening since I’ve last been on shift, updates on our clients, that kind of thing. It’s also a chance for the staff that have been working a particularly difficult shift to debrief.

I start by reading and responding to emails. Then I read all the case notes and client records to ensure I am up-to-date for my shift.

Then I assist the mothers and their children with their evening routines. So, this includes things like supporting them to prepare dinner, assisting with the bathing and settling of their children.

The other staff usually leave at 5pm and from then I work alone until the morning. First off, I make sure all of the mothers are in bed by curfew. And then I am available throughout the rest of the evening for any extra support required.

We have an on-call policy though, so there is always the option to call a senior staff member after business hours if necessary.

Then once they are in bed I complete extensive case notes on what I observed throughout my shift and any interactions with the mothers and their children. For example, did I see any specific risks or behaviours that should be noted?

Then I lock up the building, set the alarms and head upstairs to bed.  Sleepovers are either really quiet or very busy. It depends on the amount of mothers that we have at any one point in time and what has been happening for them. I need to be available throughout the night if they need anything. They can knock on my door or contact me via phone. If they do need me, it’s usually for support with settling their children. As new parents some of them may need help to learn how to read their child’s cues.

The Working File: It sounds like a lot of responsibility. Does this ever overwhelm you?

Mon, Social Worker: It definitely can. I was very nervous when I first started out – it can be daunting being responsible for young mothers and their children during the night. It becomes easier though. Especially when you get comfortable with the job and get to know the mothers well. Part of the job is crisis management skills; so it’s about dealing with a situation by balancing both the heightened emotions and feelings as well as ensuring the safety of the mothers and children.

The Working File: What’s a misunderstanding about social work as a profession?

Mon, Social Worker: I think we’re not always regarded as a important profession, I’ve been described as a babysitter before. We have specific skill sets, theories and practices that inform our work, and we work alongside other health professionals, like nurses and occupational therapists.

A content warning comes before an article, video, or work of art and alerts the audience to potentially sensitive material. Common topics of content warnings include sexual assault, self-harm, violence, injury, and death.

The Working File: How are you feeling, do you want to reschedule this interview?

Holly, Paramedic: My eyes are burning and I feel slightly nauseous from lack of sleep and too much coffee! It was a flat-out night, 15 hours with just a 30 minute break early in the night where I managed to grab a meal.

I was lucky though, I heard many of the cars [ambulances] didn’t get a break at all. The hospitals were struggling [last night] and the ambulance service was running around all night, chasing all sorts of calls until the morning finally arrived and it died off a bit. There are a lot of very tired paramedics out there this morning! But of course, let’s do the interview while it’s fresh.

The Working File: Could you run us through your night?

Holly, Paramedic: The first 7 hours were fairly usual.

My partner and I did no really major jobs of note, just an assortment of miscellaneous calls – a regular caller who is a chronic alcoholic and has taken to ringing for the most ridiculous reasons, an old girl in a nursing home with a fever, a drunk young man with laceration to the leg, a man with angina, a man who had been assaulted the day before and now had two black eyes, a woman with anxiety, another woman hyperventilating.

At midnight I had my first notable patient. It was a young man was who lying on his back on the footpath outside a drive-through bottle shop that had closed for the night. When we arrived there were two men crouched over the figure. He wasn’t moving.

We had been dispatched to the case as a Signal 2 job and the data terminal just read “Unknown problem – isn’t standing or talking” – these jobs are usually psychiatric issues, alcohol related or drug affected. Sometimes all three!

We parked in the driveway and flicked on the spotlights to light up the scene a little better. As we got out of the ambulance, a police van pulled in behind us – my partner and I exchanged looks.

There had been no mention of the police being dispatched on the data terminal. Sometimes multiple people will call for help when something untoward happens in the street – some people will call the police, some will call an ambulance. Sometimes the two services don’t communicate very well and we both arrive looking surprised to see the other.

My partner headed over to talk to the police and I grabbed the my bag and walked over to where the people were holding the young man down.

I could see straight away that he had his eyes open, was clearly breathing and appeared relatively calm. Then I saw the blood on the ground around his head. I asked the two guys what had been going on and they stated this guy had been “going crazy” and had hit his head on the ground.

My first thought was that perhaps there had been a fight between them and they had been holding him down until the police arrived. He looked quiet enough now.

The police officers and my partner walked over so I asked the two guys to get off him. I remember one of them looking at me for an instant as if to say “are you sure?” – then they let him go and stood back. For a few seconds all was quiet… then all hell broke loose.

The guy let out a scream like a banshee, arched his back and began repeatedly smashing the back of his head into the concrete.

You could literally hear his skull cracking.

For a moment I think nobody could believe what they were seeing – then we all jumped in and tried to stop him. While the others restrained his arms and legs, I tried to hold his head still. With all the blood in his hair his head was impossible to hold – I ended up grabbing a fist full of his hair with one hand and placing my other hand under his head.

He violently fought against us and was arching his back, easily lifting the two police officers that were trying to hold him down.

My partner ran to get the bed and restraints out of the truck. Then suddenly he relaxed, stopped fighting and was quiet again, lying there like he was looking up at the stars, blinking occasionally but not saying a word.

A few tense moments later and we had him restrained to the bed for his safety and ours. I never like doing that but this guy was clearly doing himself some major harm.

We loaded him into the back of the ambulance and I set about trying to take some vital signs. My partner placed an oxygen mask on him and I passed over a pad and bandage for his head which was steadily turning the pillow red.

Suddenly and without warning, he fired up again, screaming, kicking and writhing.

The two police officers who had been lurking in the doorway of the ambulance piled in and we all struggled to hold him down again. He managed to dislocate his shoulder trying to sit up and get out of the restraints – he was unbelievably strong.

Because my hands were somewhat full, my partner notified the hospital, which was only a few minutes away, to warn them we were coming. He went from perfectly calm to crazy mode several more times over the next few minutes until we handed him over at the hospital. A few minutes later and there were six security staff, four nurses and several doctors all struggling to manage him.

He would need to be sedated, restrained and closely monitored for many hours until the methamphetamine was out of his system and they could work out how much damage he’d done.

When I finished writing my case notes, I went out to where my partner was still cleaning up the blood in the ambulance. Not long after, the two police officers walked back outside. I thanked them for their help, we bade our farewells and we all drove back out into the night.

Only another six hours of nightshift to go.

Next we went to see Paul. It seemed he had been working on a car when an engine part had dropped on the back of his hand, which crushed and sliced the middle two fingers on his right hand. He couldn’t close his hand into a fist. This meant likely tendon damage in itself but when I inspected the wound with a torch I could see right through to the bones and damaged internal structures.

Paul was in for a long night at hospital while the surgeons attempted to reattach his tendons and get his hand back into some kind of working order.

The next few hours were much like the first of my shift.

And then finally, it is 05:00 am and we are driving back from hospital when we come across a traffic accident.

A taxi has failed to negotiate a gentle curve in the road and has struck a power pole. There are no other emergency services on scene and we have not heard any ambulance vehicles being sent to this crash. For a suburban street this is a reasonably big hit. The taxi is twisted out of shape and the power pole has clearly made it nearly all the way through the engine bay to the firewall.

When we look in the vehicle, it’s a mess. There is no obvious blood and nobody in the front or back seats.

I always check the floor too, as people can end up in all sort of odd place in a crash.

The airbags have gone off. There are no skid-marks on the road and major damage to the wooden power pole at about head height. This car was airborne after hitting the concrete curb.

A taxi driver was sitting on a low brick fence talking on a mobile phone and I went over.

After a quick assessment, he’s alert, apparently uninjured and doesn’t want my help thanks very much (not what he actually said). The driver claimed to be at the end of her shift and said he had “lost concentration”.

I have seen many accidents where the car is wrecked and the people inside are fine, but I’ve also seen the opposite, where the car looks fine and the person is critically injured.

I persuaded the driver to go to hospital for a check-up, but despite careful looking, I found not a scratch on her. No seat belt stripe (the tell-tale diagonal red bruising), no back or neck pain, no glass shards in her hair, no cuts on the hands or pain in the chest.

After this… We arrive back at branch, restock a few things and the next shift crew are waiting. So all in all a big night. But now I am bone tired and need to sleep!

The Working File: What’s a common call out that frustrates you? Is it when people call for injuries that aren’t life threatening?

Holly, Paramedic: I mean, I get frustrated when we are called out to a house where a baby has fallen out of a highchair yes. But, in general… people are in panic mode when they call an ambulance and it’s not our place to judge whether they are ‘overreacting’.

In the past 2 days I have been to 3 deliberate Paracetamol overdoses. These people had each taken between 50 and 300 paracetamol tablets. They all were trying to get the attention of somebody; a girlfriend, a husband, a son whoever. I am convinced that not one of these people actually wanted to die. I’m also sure it all seemed like a good idea at the time. Paracetamol is commonly ingested in the mistaken belief that it is a “safe” drug to overdose on. Its readily available, it’s cheap and it doesn’t do any harm. That’s frustrated me this week.

Heidi –

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For this round table discussion we called in:

• 1 x third year B. Medical Science student 
• 1 x B. Medical Science drop out (dropped out second year)
• 1 x B. Medical Science graduate (who works in medical device education)

The Working File: You are a third year Be. Medical Science student at the University of Sydney, can explain to me why you picked the course?

Jess, Third year B. Medical Science student: The general consensus among the students enrolled in my course was that we had all missed out on undergraduate medicine, and this was the most relevant second choice. I am a third year ‘medsci’ student and postgraduate medicine and GAMSAT are my key goals. After studying for almost three years I feel a lot more prepared to sit the GAMSAT again and my GPA is high enough for ‘postgrad med’, so I guess, granted my goals…I am really happy with my choice. 

I personally wouldn’t recommend the course to someone that won’t be studying a postgraduate course though as I think as that this qualification is too generic as a stand alone course.

The Working File: Why is that?

Jess, Third year B. Medical Science student: This is just my personal opinion; but from what I have observed in the past three years – there is an oversupply in graduates offering medical science skills; and to match that jobs in the government, academia and industry are poorly paid and insecure. I think this is because [and again this is my opinion] that medical research is largely funded by taxpayer money or pharmaceutical companies; and the result of that is a limited scope of potential employers in Australia.

The Working File: Would a B. of Medical Science from a university with the level of – I guess the word for it is ‘prestige’ that USYD has make you attractive in the competitive job market?

Jess, Third year B. Medical Science student: In my opinion and experience, no.

This is an industry built around research, and most successful researchers have a PhD. A B. Medical Science isn’t enough.

The Working File: A study from Australian Society for Medical Research (ASMR) revealed that 83% of research respondents had considered leaving active research for another career option. Can you relate to this anecdotally?

Jess, Third year B. Medical Science student: In my first month at university my lab lecturer said, “most of you will retrain for careers in teaching, engineering, medicine or sales,” – motivating no, correct yes. But to be a bit more positive, a girl I know who was in the 2019 graduating year; one girl moved to Germany and said the job market was a lot more lucrative.

The Working File: Hannah, you dropped out from a B. Medical Science at UTS in your second year and changed to B. Business. Can you tell me why?

Hannah, B. Medical Science drop out: I loved the sound of medical science when I finished high school. Though, I didn’t do enough research before I jumped in. In my opinion the problem is that a medical science degree is too broad to grant you a pathway into the medical industry. Ultimately the course is full of students looking to do the GAMSAT.

If you graduate with a medical science degree you can use it to get into biomedical science research, hospital education or sales work for biomedical companies (this is selling pharmaceuticals or devices to medical professionals).

I went into the degree thinking that I’d like to end up in something like diagnostic pathology or transfusion. I ultimately dropped out because I got frustrated at how difficult and technical the course truly is, yet how on the other side, how underdeveloped the job market is. You are learning really, really high level medical and science facts – but, it’s kind of like, “Oh okay, you have lots of knowledge, but can you do surgery?” – No.

In a sense, medical science is just an anatomy and human sciences major. I moved into business after I started really considering my job opportunities. I applied for an internship at Cochlear in Sydney and they mentioned – anecdotally – that they receive thousands of applications a semester and favoured Biotechnology Engineers.

I applied for nine unpaid internships at research labs in a two month period and was not successful in any. As a student who received 98.3 in my ATAR – who has varied and consistent work experience, who has voluntary contribution on my resume, and who was maintaining an HD average; it was alarming to me that I couldn’t even get a job working for free.

The Working File:  Kieran, you are a medical scientist. Can you speak to the comments above? Has your experience in the job market different to Hannah’s?

Keiran, Medical Scientist: I am a researcher at the Red Cross and think that the job prospects are not as bad as everyone above is saying! It’s no different to finishing with a law degree, or a business degree – of course, it is going to be competitive. In saying that you do need to be smart and future proof yourself. You need an AIMS accredited course on your resume, or one that covers the main areas of a diagnostic medical lab (micro, biochem, haematology, histology and transfusion) to land a role.

For high school students my advice is to answer the question, ‘what do medical scientists do?’ before enrolling in the course. We are the behind-the-scenes health professionals. If you’ve ever had blood taken, a medical scientist has been involved behind the scenes. If you donate blood there is a nurse taking the blood and then at the end there might be a doctor using the blood in an operating setting. But between A – B there are people involved.

So, as I said, I work at Red Cross in the lab. Day-to-day when you are in the lab you are on the ground doing a lot of the experiments and gathering data which you then give to your supervisor (the research fellow). All of the work you are doing contributes to research projects and research studies or publications. The work that I am doing will impact the end user. It’s a behind the scenes role with impact.

The Working File: What kind of data are you collecting? What is an example of something that you’d be looking for?

Keiran, Medical Scientist:  Every time someone delivers blood they will do viral testing on the donation, but that’s not me specifically – I work more in research and development. We are a bit more ‘future looking’ I guess. So, we look at the new technologies that are coming along. For example, we are currently looking at how we can store blood for longer so that we can make the best out of each donation. Another example, we are looking at is how we can use platelets to help people recover from burns. There’s a whole range of projects.

The Working File:  How did you land this job?

Keiran, Medical Scientist:  I do relate to Hannah here – it’s quite tricky if you’re just starting off. It’s like the old joke is that you “need three years of experience in a technique that’s only existed for one” to get this job.

In my experience, I think it’s a lot easier if you have some sort of lab experience while you are at university. There are lots of opportunities around while you are studying; take them up and then when you graduate you can reply on more than the qualification alone. There are always internships or research projects that you can participate in – you need to be proactive in getting practical skills that would be recognised by people working in a lab on your resume. Also, working in a lab will open doors to other jobs, this is an industry that kind of hires from within. Network and connections are key.

The Working File: Do you think network and connections are more valuable than the name of the university you completed your degree via?

Keiran, Medical Scientist:  To be honest, I think it took me about six months to really understand the value of the network. I wasn’t quite on the ball when I started my degree. Once I realised that the course would really be what I made of it, I really stepped up. I remember once day when this man came into a lecture AstraZeneca, one of the big pharmaceutical companies to talk about the importance of developing connections so that you can move into adjacent industries.

It really left an impression on me and I thought, ‘ok – you have this huge opportunity to grow your network that will open doors, leverage it.”

The Working File: Did you go onto complete a Postgraduate?

Keiran, Medical Scientist: Yes I did; and when I did my honours, the Dr. I studied under had a vacancy at the end of the year which I was able to take.

I think this was one of the things I really benefited from doing my post graduate was finding good professional mentors; basically the people supervised me through my Honours year not only helped me develop a lot of the skills, but they gave me the professional connections that I needed to take myself forward.

The Working File: Do you have any advice for future students?

Keiran, Medical Scientist:  I think my biggest advice would be that when you seek out intern opportunities (or a semester long research project); don’t just look at the skills you’ve develop but also consider the connections that are on offer. You need to be strategic here.