wanting wisdom

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2018-12-11T16:23:56.360-05:00

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2013-04-12T08:30:58.242-04:00

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2013-03-05T05:10:30.367-05:00

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2013-02-22T13:54:23.498-05:00

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You're right, you won't be able to convinc...

2012-01-16T13:51:32.041-05:00

You're right, you won't be able to convince me in a comments section of anything life-altering be it religion, god or good v. evil.

I'm not sure that I agree that one or two opportunities missed for being good constitute someone as evil. I don't think I'd even say you were evil, but if you want to believe it, I won't stop you.

Sometimes selfishness can be a good thing. But that's probably a conversation best led by Bryan. Shockingly, good and evil and all that jazz depends on what you believe. Thankfully, neither of us is murdering or abusing anyone, so I can safely say that neither you nor I is evil, from my perspective.

It sounds like we aren't disagreeing on the te...

2012-01-16T13:48:13.063-05:00

It sounds like we aren't disagreeing on the text, but the idea of god in general. And it's not surprising that the god we believe about ourselves impacts what we believe about the idea of god.

Yes, I believe I am evil (meaning I am selfish, inconsistent, and not who I want to be). That is consistent with what I understand the Bible to generally say about humans.

I don't really feel like convincing you your evil in a blog comments section. I guess I would just ask yourself if you ever hurt people (intentionally or unintentionally). I know my answer is yes.

I am not sure how you can call someone good or evi...

2012-01-16T13:41:31.315-05:00

I am not sure how you can call someone good or evil without judgment on your part (which I'm sure you try to refrain from doing). I will assume you are calling yourself evil.

I do not consider myself to be evil. I consider myself to be a good person who does good. Sure, there may be opportunities to be better, but I believe in justice and I think if I were to believe in a God, I'd want a god who handed out blessings to the good and curses to the evil. My mother in law is not evil, and she is battling cancer after living a life full of good and a complete lack of evil. The god I'd believe in would have more sound decisions.

The thought of a god is what I believe to be a comforting thought, oh he's looking out for me, when in reality, it's you and only you. If your god can't protect you, why even believe? Nice thoughts only go so far in a world where reality exists.

Sorry, I am not meaning this to be a personal attack. I'm just not believing the way you're describing and defending the text. It is entirely possible that my problem is with the text itself as I certainly do not believe that the Christian god is consistent in his words, actions or demands of his followers.

I agree this explanation is simple. That is my pur...

2012-01-16T13:35:51.369-05:00

I agree this explanation is simple. That is my purpose for this blog. Take small pieces of scripture and think through them. I certainly don't think the test itself is elementary. If there is a failure it is my own.

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. It's not about fear. It's about freedom from fear.

He sees all good and evil and he does not dish out accordingly AND that is good. Very good. Because we aren't the good people doing good. We are the evil people doing evil. We don't want God handing out proper judgement. He want him pardoning us.

It sounds like from your blog you recently went through a pretty threatening experience. I'm sorry to hear that. I certainly don't want to be trite with scripture or with others' experiences.

Don't you find this a little elementary of a b...

2012-01-16T09:34:27.060-05:00

Don't you find this a little elementary of a breakdown? Well, perhaps the text itself is a little elementary. I hate the idea that God is watching everything - total fear factor for believers.

My biggest issue is how you can so confidently claim in the same breath that he does not dish out his favor accordingly, but he is righteous and merciful. Um, you'll need more explanation.

How can someone who sees what is good and evil but chooses not to dish out accordingly be righteous? Where's the mercy for the good people doing good when evil happens upon them? Where's the righteousness when an evil person commits evil to a good person?

This is the issue, and you didn't address it.

Actually let me add one more thing. I'd encour...

2011-05-16T23:35:22.473-04:00

Actually let me add one more thing. I'd encourage you to really get to know more Christians (in the same way I encourage myself to get to know more non-Christians). I think we can gain more from each others beliefs if we know the people behind them.

Well it sounds like you guys have pretty much cove...

2011-05-16T23:34:15.085-04:00

Well it sounds like you guys have pretty much covered everything. I'll mostly second what Justin has so articulately stated and add that God did not create the world to be so full of pain, but he's willing to stick around to remake it painless.

Haha well I wouldn't expect you to buy it from...

2011-05-16T13:52:15.703-04:00

Haha well I wouldn't expect you to buy it from a blog comment. In fact, I doubt if you ever decide to become a Christian it will be because someone answered all your theological questions satisfactorily. I've been a Christian nearly all my life and mine are far from answered. But luckily for both of us, I believe there's more to it than that.

I wouldn't say I've found happiness in believing in God. Peace, yes, but I think the Bible is pretty clear that being a Christian does not help one escape suffering. But as for me, I cannot not get by on faith in myself. I've let myself down too many times.

Yeah, Thomas Paine, though he was no atheist, was no Christian either. I understand and respect his and others' struggles with the Christian religion, though certainly I think the quote you posted is wrong in its assessment of history in many ways, and unnecessarily insulting. But the helpfulness/harmfulness of Christian history is another issue. If you're looking for men who hate religion, there are plenty to find. Christianity is made up of messy, screwed-up people. The world is.

I don't have any questions for you, but thank you for offering. I respect and understand the struggles you have; I have them myself. Just wanted to offer what I could.

Thank you for responding. I'm happy to hear th...

2011-05-16T11:47:57.901-04:00

Thank you for responding. I'm happy to hear that your sister's diagnosis is positive, and I'm happy that you've found happiness in believing in God.

I'm just not buying it, though I appreciate the time you took to thoughtfully respond to my questions.

I have seen people overcome addiction in other ways. Myself, included, mostly on my steadfast faith in myself. I understand that religion is important to some, and sometimes may be the only way for someone to feel loved, but I reject the idea that God is the only way to find healing and peace.

I just finished Thomas Paine's Age of Reason which probably doesn't help my perspective on the Bible any.

Here's a quote I found to be particularly pointed:
"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, t renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as ameans of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter."

Again, I appreciate the time you took, Justin, to respond. I welcome any tough questions you may have for me and my lack of faith in God since you've been so open and willing with your faith.

I know your question wasn't addressed to me, b...

2011-05-16T10:14:17.513-04:00

I know your question wasn't addressed to me, but as a Christian and a "Wanting Wisdom" reader I'd like to offer what I can.

I personally would not claim child molestation or bin Laden's death are acts of God. I believe the Bible teaches that man has free will, and can choose to perform good or evil.

As for natural disasters, I struggle as many do to comprehend God's place in them. But I know that God is infinite, and I am not, and there may be some way that is beyond my comprehension that not stopping a natural disaster could be a loving act.

I should mention that there are other Christians who believe that God is all-powerful and all-loving, but has simply no part in natural disasters. They believe such disasters are the result of the "fallen world" Christians speak of, meaning a world that has been corrupted by man's choice to introduce sin into it.

I struggle with these ideas. I admit I'm not always comforted by them; sometimes I'm not even sure I believe them. But they're there.

As for God's actions; I see him working daily. For instance, I believe he saved my dying sister. She had a very rare liver disease which necessitated a liver transplant, a difficult operation which almost always results in an earlier death. Last year her diagnosis was changed, and she no longer requires one. Now I understand to someone who does not believe in God, this is not an obviously divine act. But I believe it was.

The most obvious acts of God to me though are in changing people. People who are caught in some destructive behavior, whether it's addiction or crime or self-worship or what have you, who turn to faith and find healing and peace. I see this continually, every day across the world, and I see these healed people going out and healing the sick and helping to the poor in tangible ways (as my other sister has recently done as a volunteer nurse in Haiti).

As for God's actions in the Bible, it is true that he was much more openly active then (although I would question the claim that all of those stories were written hundreds of years after they occurred). My understanding of the Christian narrative is that we were given Jesus as our liaison to God, and that after his resurrection we are no longer in need of direct, divine action like was seen in the Old Testament; we now have the person and teachings of Jesus to guide us.

I hope this is even a little bit helpful. The problem of pain is obviously as old as dirt, and it's not something that is going to be solved any time soon, especially not in blog comments. But we are all here, struggling together to make sense of this terribly beautiful world, and this is a little of what I have found. Peace to you.

Not to continue my streak of tough questions, but ...

2011-05-16T07:49:08.175-04:00

Not to continue my streak of tough questions, but I can't read this and let it go by...let me know if I should just stop following your blog. You've put your faith out there, and I've got some questions about the claims you're making.

When's the last action your God of action has taken? Would you claim the earthquake as God's action? Would you claim the child molestation happening in America and across the world as God's action? Would you claim bin Ladin's death as God's action?

From my perspective, your God is one of "used to" action. He sent plagues, raised the dead, turned water into wine, turned disbelievers into pillars of salt, created light and darkness. Where is that God? Is it because the stories could be written hundreds of years after the fact that your God can do these actions?

I have only seen talk of action: He will return, He will do ____ (heal the sick, cure cancer, save my dying sister, etc) if it is part of His plan.

This all stems from my severe disappointment in the claims of Christianity: if your God is all-loving and both all-powerful, the world wouldn't be full of evil. Either God is not powerful enough to stop it or God doesn't love his people enough to stop it. Neither of those circumstances are one that would give me faith in my God.

I think we all agree the "final victory"...

2011-05-13T12:53:20.798-04:00

I think we all agree the "final victory" hasn't come yet. We'd know if it did.

As to your question, hmm, that's a tough one. If it turns out there is no victory for God's people, would my sacrifices be worth it? I honestly don't know.

There is certainly a general correlation with being kind and worldly success. So it's not as if being a Christian always inhibits personal success. But there have certainly be sacrifices I've made that I wouldn't have made without the influence of the story of Jesus.

I can't honestly say how I would feel. Great question.

I believe the whole final victory thing hasn't...

2011-05-11T07:33:28.138-04:00

I believe the whole final victory thing hasn't happened. I assume if it did, you and other Christians would feel slighted that you weren't included.

If it isn't going to happen at the end of your life - and you're not sentient to know, do you think the sacrifices you've made for your God were worth it? Even if there was no God?

Well first I'm curious which ending you think ...

2011-05-10T21:00:19.204-04:00

Well first I'm curious which ending you think haven't happened.

My guess if that if this isn't going to happen at the end of my life I won't be sentient enough to know.

If that's what you believe... a lot of story ...

2011-05-10T07:50:29.797-04:00

If that's what you believe...

a lot of story endings happen in the reality we live in. Many a story ending claimed in the Bible have yet to happen. Some say it may never happen. What do you do if it never happened?

As a high school teacher married to a social worke...

2010-10-15T21:32:41.290-04:00

As a high school teacher married to a social worker I don't see myself as earning as much as possible. But your husband isn't either. College professors after all aren't the highest paid people, especially when there are so many economist jobs in the private sector. Both your family and mine are basing decisions on wage compensating differentials (yay economics!).

I think the difference in our decisions is the difference in what we think work and wealth can bring and what it can't. I think there are huge costs to working too hard. Missed relax time, missed family time, AND a feeling of total self reliance. When righteousness is all about submission, wealth gets in the way.

We are both guilty of regularly worshiping ourselves. For me, becoming a Christian was realizing I didn't turn out to the the god I wanted. Attending church, fellowshipping with other Christians, and hopefully this blog are daily reminders that I'm not god enough, but God is more than good enough.

I've heard those verses before, and I think I ...

2010-10-14T07:13:49.388-04:00

I've heard those verses before, and I think I understand what the Church teaches better with those verses together. Don't be too rich because you'll love it, and don't be poor because you can be productive and earn more.

Now, this is truly personal because I know you are both a Christian and an economist. As you well know, I'm married to an economist. His goal (and mine) is to earn as much as possible, and as we continue to earn more than we have in previous years, we are loving it. We are loving the worth of ourselves rise, but we are mostly loving the wealth itself. But, then again, we have no god to tell us how to feel about wealth. We decide how our wealth is spent, donated and saved.

How do you handle this rub? Are you of the same mind as Bryan where you want to earn as much as possible? I bet it would be hard, and I know Bryan often thinks you are right in your economic analysis but we both wonder how that affects your faith. A lot of his economic thought (which is mostly similar to yours, thanks to Clemson Econ) has made him believe what he does: there is no god.

Let me know if this should be in email form. I know we're getting personal.

You're probably right, but it's nice to ha...

2010-10-13T23:52:57.786-04:00

You're probably right, but it's nice to have the discussion attached to the original post.

I think you've hit on something that is under emphasized in American Christianity: the benefits of poverty.

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."- Matthew 19:24

That said, I don't believe God hates wealth. He hates the love of wealth. Wealth under the control of a wise man can do a lot of good.

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life. "
- I Timothy 6:17-19

Being a creator is following in God's footsteps. Creation and wealth can make your life easier. Hardship isn't what God wants for us.

To summarize: I don't think it's either or (get rich or be poor), it's an appropriate amount of each.

I'm probably the only one reading this, so per...

2010-10-13T07:36:13.150-04:00

I'm probably the only one reading this, so perhaps I should just email you, Harrison. This is another thing I've got a problem with in the Bible. You've hit one of the toughest issues for me, especially after marrying an economist.

I just don't understand the placing importance on heavenly wealth. Shouldn't Christians love to be poor? What's the point in aiming for wealth if you can't take it with you? To me, Christians ought to be poor and love it OR get rich and then squander it all before they die.

Sure, you can spend money on charity and mission trips and scholarships, but having been a part of a very wealthy church and knowing some wealthy Christians, I have seen minimal charity and lots of gadgets and "ways of the world" type purchases. Which is it: get rich and spend it all because you can't take it with you or be a poor matyr and hope for death, so you can enjoy your heavenly riches?

I don't expect you to have the "right" answer, I'm just voicing my questions. I know you aren't a theologian. But this isn't a Word doc ;)

He's unchanging, but that doesn't necessar...

2010-10-09T11:41:38.269-04:00

He's unchanging, but that doesn't necessarily mean he sees things black and white. Like the people who were made in his image, God thinks on the margin.

It still sounds like God has contradictory charact...

2010-10-09T09:56:35.808-04:00

It still sounds like God has contradictory characteristics. I thought God was unchanging. He either likes good business or he doesn't.