Western Sydney Freethinkers

Site under maintenance

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 04:49:00 +0000

We are currently fiddling about with the site and trying to resurrect it.

You may notice changes over the next few days (or weeks depending on how busy we get).

Your feedback and suggestions are welcomed at westernsydneyfreethought@live.com

In the meantime come join us for a chat on Facebook.

Upcoming events are freedrinkers on Wednesday 1/2 and we have a Coptic Orthodox Priest coming to give a talk on Sun 19/2

See you at the Newtown Festival

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 20:37:00 +0000

The Western Sydney Freethinkers will be joining forces with a number of the leading Atheist, Secular and Rationalist groups from across Sydney in running a stall at the Newtown Festival TODAY in Camperdown Memorial Park from 9am-5pm.

Drop by and say hello, we'll be spending the day chatting about freethought with whoever is interested and generally enjoying ourselves.

If you have come to this blog after meeting us at the Newtown Festival, feel free to have a look around. Our group is really active on facebook (link), so if you want to meet some of us and chat about something drop into our group "Western Sydney Freethinkeks" and have a post on the wall.

We will be updating the site with photos throughout the day, so look forward to some of the sights of the festival

SEE YOU ALL THERE!!!

RSPCA Fundraiser

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Sun, 14 Aug 2011 10:31:00 +0000

On 14/08/11 at 11am The Western Sydney Freethinkers sold Cupcakes to raise much needed funds for the RSPCA.

As part of the official "Cupcake Day for the RSPCA" we set up next to the walkway at Tench Reserve in Penrith, organisers Bea Bowditch and Bronwyn Pinchbeck cooked up tasty banana, vanilla, raspberry and chocolate cupcakes for all to enjoy. Luckily the weather was beautiful which meant lots of people to peddle... umm I mean sell to.

All up we raised $185.65 and not one cupcake was spared with extra special thanks to our chief peddlers Jasmine Marosvary and Matt Fenimore ensuring that no walkers, joggers, cyclists or the target consumers parents with their children went by without considering a scrumptious snack.


Final Cupcake devourer Peter "Ratbags" Bowditch with chief sellers Jasmine & Matt

A massive thank you to all who attended and to the fantastic passes by for donating to great cause, hope you enjoyed the cupcakes.

If you were unable to make the event but still wish to donate please visit www.fundraise.rspcacupcakeday.com.au/western_sydney_freethinkers

Well done to Bea and Bronwyn for a successful event and assisting in the care and protection of the animals of Australia.

Cheers,

Meeting with Mormons

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Wed, 11 May 2011 06:38:00 +0000

Sunday May 15th @ 4pm

Penrith School of Arts
3 Castlereagh St
Penrith, NSW

Apologies for the late notice but we have something special *ahem* organised for this months meeting.

This month we will be visited by some missionaries and members of the Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Church. They will be giving a talk on the background, history and core beliefs of the church followed by a Q&A. This will be a great opportunity to learn about the Mormon church from its believers and not merely relying on popular culture (or podcasts).

This will be sure to spark up some great discussion and may expel or even enforce some of the myths surrounding the belief system.

Please remember to be respectful of the individuals and above all have fun in this open forum setting.

As always we will be heading out for dinner and a drink or two afterwards at either the RSL or Thai decided by majority vote (or executive decision in the case of unanimous *shrugs*).

Cheers,

WSF March meeting: CIFS - Cult Information and Family Support

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Fri, 04 Mar 2011 06:56:00 +0000

Sunday March 20th @ 4pm

Penrith School of Arts

3 Castlereagh St

Penrith, NSW

CIFS is an Australian support and information network. CIFS was initially formed by parents and family members of loved ones caught up in abusive groups.

The network has grown to include families, friends, former members and concerned individuals working together towards a common goal, to provide support and develop awareness for those affected by high demand groups or cultic relationships.

Adrian Norman is a ex-cult member and is well known in the Anti-Cult world as an educator against cults and assisting people leaving cult institutions. Adrian is a film maker whose documentary "Visions of Paradise" explores the human need to belong and the various ways that cults exploit this psychological trait, he has also appeared on TV, Radio and has spoken extensively on Cults for quite a number of years.

CIFS - www.cifs.org.au
Visions of Paradise - www.roninfilms.com.au/feature/2523.html

All are welcome and afterwards we usually head to the Penrith RSL for dinner and a drink or two.

So come down and enjoy some great company with like minded folks.

Cheers,

FreeDrinkers - We're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Thu, 03 Mar 2011 01:19:00 +0000

Or possibly just a bigger table... Last nights Freedrinkers was a huge success which attracted some 20+ people, with many new faces and plenty of regular ones, creating great networking opportunities with other Skeptics/Freethought/Atheist groups in the greater Western Sydney area. With a few drinks, a good feed and an abundance of interesting conversation, everybody had a great night.

A big thank you to all who attended.

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The Freedrinkers meet the first Wednesday of every month at the:

Red Cow Inn

9 Station St, Penrith

NSW 2750

Upcoming Dates:

April 6th
May 4th
June 1st
July 6th
August 3rd

It's always a blast, so come along and bring a friend, brother, sister, Great Aunt Harriot...

(and stay tuned for a possible new 2nd event... Shhhhh)

Cheers,

Three Thinkers Podcast - Ep #39

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 11:14:00 +0000

A group from the Western Sydney Freethinkers attended a Faith Healing at the New Life Church in Rouse Hill. While we intend to post a thorough take down of the night, I wanted to get this out there as soon as possible due to the events discussed may come around before we have a chance.

In this episode we also discuss a certain Sydney Politician (very much a surprise) that was present at the event and his push for policy not because the population calls for it but because his particular religious belief demands it.

Bigotry and ignorance is alive in Sydney and it prays to push itself on the rest of us.

Subscribe on iTunes and Visit The Three Thinkers

Cheers,

Freethought Bookshop

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Mon, 21 Feb 2011 12:05:00 +0000

A quick plug for our friends over at The Rationalist Association of NSW and their Freethought Bookshop, details are as follows:

View Larger Map

Freethought Bookshop

The Rationalist association of NSW

58 Regent St Chippendale 2008 NSW Australia

Established 1912

Bookshop Tel: (02)9698 2933

Atheist & Rationalist literature

Opening hours: 4:30pm-7:30pm

1st, 2nd & 4th Thursday of each Month

So if your in the Sydney area please drop in, peruse their selection and have a chat with your friendly local Rationalist.

Cheers,

WSF February meeting: The Hebrew Bible with John August

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:23:00 +0000

Penrith School of Arts

3 Castlereagh St

Penrith, Australia

The Hebrew Bible contains little factual information a knowledgeable God would want to pass onto us. However, it represents a point in history as people struggled with ideas - with their notions of justice and ethics, and tried to maintain their civilisation in the face of attacks from their neighbours. In fact much of the Hebrew Bible either derived ...from neighbouring traditions or was a deliberate contrast to them. It is only by comparing Biblical stories to those of their neighbours that we see how both the stories and ideas in the bible developed. And by looking at the archaeological evidence we can gain an even better perspective. The Hebrew Bible can, in its own way, be fascinating for atheists. You just have to know where to look.

John August is President of the NSW Humanists, with a long time interest in religion, ethics and science. He convenes the Sydney Shove, a politics and economics discussion group. John is also a member of the Secular Party, and stood against Malcolm Turnbull in the seat of Wentworth at the last election. He has given one day courses in Science and Physics at the WEA. John has also contributed to the Diffusion science program on radio 2SER.

WSF Meeting Jan 2011: Adventures in nonanthropocentrism

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:05:00 +0000

Dr John Hadley’s research serves to consolidate the project of moral inclusion initiated by the first-generation of philosophers working on animal and environmental issues. His place as a key member of the second generation of environmental philosophers was secured by the inclusion of “Nonhuman Animal Property: Reconciling Environmentalism and Animal Rights” in a major new survey anthology on animal rights (Animal Rights, Clare ...Palmer ed. Ashgate, 2008). Commenting on his animal property rights theory, one international expert recently said:

“Hadley's proposal to develop a theory of animal property rights is easily the most intriguing and original idea I have encountered in ten years of research on the subject.”

At this event, Dr Hadley will outline the basic animal rights and environmental ethics positions locating them within the history of western philosophical thought, and contrasting them with historically resilient Judeo-Christian views about what matters in ethics and why.

He also plans to touch upon the authority of science and structured thinking in ethics.

____________________________

Time	16 January · 16:00 - 19:00

Location	Penrith School of Arts 3 Castlereagh St Penrith, Australia

____________________________

After this event, we will be going out for Dinner and Drinks as usual. Please feel free to tag along!

Book Review: What is Opus Dei?

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 05:09:00 +0000

Book Review by Geoffrey Cowan

What is Opus Dei ? Tales of God, blood, money & faith.

Noam FRIEDLANDER (2005) Conspiracy Book Series London

Opus Die, or more formally The Prelature of the Holy Cross and Opus Dei, is a sect within the Catholic Church that has gained a degree of notoriety since the release of Dan Brown’s Book “The Da Vinci Code” and the subsequent movie of the same name. As a result, Opus Dei has become a interesting subject for both writers, investigative journalists and religious critics. But what is Opus Die ? In Latin it is the “work of god” and looks to have lay priests with the object of sanctity. With over 80 000 members of which 25 000 are celibate living in Opus Dei centres.

The reviewer was drawn to the title for two reasons; firstly, the imprint is with Conspiracy Books that has an excellent series of essays on various subjects which I have read over the last three years which include various “conspiracies” in regards the Space Race and Oil Wars. But also, my curiosity for Opus Dei. I was aware that the former Pope, John Paul was member, but also many powerful people in the United States and Europe are members, spies that have committed treason against their country have also been members but the alleged influence of Opus Dei in countries such as Spain, Italy, the US and the South Americas.

Internet searches will quickly define Opus Dei as a part of the Catholic Church that originated in Spain in 1928. Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer, born in 1902 to a wealthy textile businessman, later to be bankrupt, was forced to live a lowly existence in Southern Spain. It was said that he gained his spiritual calling by seeing a Carmelite Brother walking barefoot in the snow and subsequently became his religious studies. In 1928 he set up retreat in Madrid and he gained an inspiration from god. As a result, Opus Dei (term not formally used until 1932) was born and was founded on the ideals of everybody is a child of god and that all people can strive for affection. Escriva considered that not just nuns and priests can be celibate, but all professions, especially the wealthy & powerful can contribute to the call of god.

The book is well-written with excellent detail on such aspects of the socia-economic, political and religious culture of the time of Opus Dei being introduced into Spain, Europe and South America. The book does go to great pains to detail all the conspiracies that are either related to or centred on Opus Dei. Conspiracies include large wealth of the members and the sect itself, influence on the political landscape of the time and including the influence of the sect on the presidency of the United States. The book does not really get to the meat of the issue until later when discussion starts on crimes that have been associated with Opus Dei. The discussion addresses issues such as the murder of a senior Vatican security officer, commander of the Swiss Guard. Other incidents relating to major frauds within the Vatican Bank and the alledge murder of senior officials are also discussed together with their connection to Opus Dei. As detailed as they are, the author agin fails to develop any real conclusions only indicating the standard Opus Dei line of denial of membership or association of any of the players named. I am of the opinion that the author uses much “open source” information from newspapers and internet media sites and that she has done little investigation herself, simply from the lack of real conclusions or developing her own opinions for that fact.

The book always states that officially, Opus Dei will deny the naming of members and hence when a conspiracy is put forward, Friedlander will state all the evidence, usually from open-source intelligence sources (newspapers and media reports) but this will always be denied by Opus Dei. The reader is then left with two options are the conspiracies false and Opus Dei is truly an organisation that is out to assist, or an official policy of denial from Opus Dei is policy? The book does leave questions for the reader as they quote large number of ex-members of Opus Dei, without explaining why they are ex-members! But when I researched the sources, especially investigative journalists in the US, I was surprised to see they were extremely creditable in regards to their approach to Opus Dei.

The conspiracies against Opus Dei are thought to originate primarily from the critics of the sect within the church itself, especially the Jesuits. This criticism is not only from the teachings of the sect, but their support of right-wing politics, especially the support of such dictators as Franco in Spain. Other aspects of support for criticism is the secret nature of their organisation, recruitments methods and the elitism of the members compared with other Catholics.

Internet searches of the author reveals that Noam Friedlander is a prolific writer of non-fiction books. Her website (http://www.noamfriedlander.com/ accessed 14MAY2008) states she is a “author, script writer, TV reviewer, columnist, sub editor and feature writer. Her other books are related to sports and (wait for it) editor of books on the Spice Girls. She also writes for TV Shows that are not shown in this country. She also writes for Sunday newspapers in the UK. It is a surprising background that has written this book and I can only infer that this is her first real attempt at non-fiction of a historical and documentary level. A little more research required for this book than the books she wrote on the Spice Girls or the Home Renovation Show she scripted.

While reading the book, I had a background thought in my mind that perhaps, only perhaps, that this book may have been written by a member of Opus dei ! This is taking the conspiracy thing perhaps a little too far, especially for this sceptical reviewer, but when you read the final chapter in relation to the state of Opus Dei today, it immediately refutes Dan Browns book the Da Vinci Code as simply “beyond belief” (pp 232). But then discusses the people behind this tale of fiction such as the Priory of Sion, but in one of it’s few conclusions, the author states quite categorically that the reputation of Opus Dei has been tanished from Brown’s book. A long discussion in regards to how Brown has attempted to challenge his critics ensues but as a sceptic, I am left with the feeling that FRIEDLANDER herself may be an apologist for Opus Dei, that the whole book may be opportunity for Opus Dei to put its point of view. This is somewhat confirmed with the final paragraph of the book stating simple that as more information is known about Opus Dei, more the organisation will be accepted as “fear” is “allayed”.

Overall, as previously stated, the book is detailed with a good approach to the subject. Frielander starts the book with a detailed explanation of the origins of both the founder of Opus Dei and the climate of the church at the time. All conspiracies that are possibly known about the sect are stated with analysis of those conspiracies, But Frelander tends to “pull-back” from his conclusions, and on several occasions fails to provide any conclusion at all, thus leaving the reader hanging out for further information. The Chronology at the end of the book is excellent, saving grace for the author. This is an unfortunate failure of the book, especially if the reader is only reading this book on Opus Dei. Like all good and educated Sceptics, you will never resort to one source of a subject, but read and research many and draw your own conclusions. This is a book that will require the reader to look to other areas of open-source intelligence should they wish to address the conspiracy areas and draw further conclusions. But if the reader wants a general book on Opus Dei, this book will no doubt feed that desire.

Geoffrey Cowan is a sceptical atheist that would rather be riding his horse.

This book review appeared in the Australian Skeptic in 2008

Book Review: Debunking History

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 05:05:00 +0000

Geoff Cowan

Book Review: Debunking History: 152 popular Myths Exploded

Rayner E & Stapley R (2002) reprinted and updated 2009 The History Press
(pp 446) Recommended Retail Price $38.99

Sceptics love a book like this. I have not met a sceptic that does not like to read, less so since the take up of the internet in the world of on-line scepticisms. But having said that, sceptics have a thirst for knowledge, information and look for all things that can destroy conspiracy, create rationality and ultimately support a conclusion from the evidence. With that in mind, sceptics love reading and love learning. Over the years we have seen a long list of books that describe various myths and then debunk them, such as Bad Astronomy by Plait (2002). But many myths become so ingrained in culture that to challenge them is to invoke discussion and argument, such as the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour or the origin of South African apartheid.

The advent of the internet has spurned many sites that have “evidence” that is basically of a dubious nature or background, so sometimes it is good for the mind to move away from these sites and pick up a good book, examples of which I review on a regular basis for this journal. This is one of those books.

Ed Rayner and Ron Stapley have compiled a list of 152 “popular myths” that have been endorsed in history between 1770 to 2003. Quite simply, they address the myths from the perspective of a historians with an in depth analysis looking at all the evidence. Within the Preface of the book, Rayner et al make the statement that “we can get the facts of history wrong”. They make a comparison between “errors” and “myths”; an error being accidental and a myth being a misrepresentation. Example, an error would be that the United States dropped the first atomic bomb on Japan in 1941, it was 1945. But a myth being more appropriate that the truth and subsequently survives time and grows in he books of history, being handed down and not challenged. An example is the intervention of a divine image which resulted in the myth of the Angel of Mons, when it was just mist or fog.

The authors teach modern history at both school and university level and have a long record of writing text books for the British history curriculum.

The book addresses many myths from history and actually provides revisions for history including rise of the Nazi Party in 1930’s in Germany, who won the battle of Waterloo (not the British!) and many myths regarding the Cold War. Each of the myths have their own section and clear analysis of the facts develop a conclusion that is logical and concise. The authors do not put their stamp as such on the conclusions, just draw conclusions from the evidence. The book is supported by a excellent bibliography that is itself sectioned in areas of history.

Some of the interesting sceptic related discussions include the Angel of Mons, the JFK Assassination (of course) and the unsolved problem of evolution. But the writers, to their credit do provide evidence that supports the myth, but with credible evidence, not the evidence that actually was used to create the legend. I was surprised of the myth of weather former British PM Tony Blair lied in regards to the reasons for invading Iraq in 2003. This myth was placed in the “Unresolved Problems” chapter. Also, excellent sections on the Middle Eastern problem and background to the Northern Ireland Question are answered in a manner that no doubt draws upon the experience as historians. As a student of the Middle East and a long-time reviewer of terrorism related books & texts for another national publication, I was impressed by the explanation and background the authors provided and thus conclusions that were drawn, especially for two very difficult issues.

It is a book that would make a nice addition to the sceptic’s home library, but to readers of history, it would be of interest and provide fuel for debate over the BBQ or that late night discussion of politics. Something which I have seen at sceptics meetings.

And the JFK Assassination ? No-one has ever produced evidence to refute the Warren Commission but I think Oliver Stone may have something to say about that. Maybe some sceptics and conspiracy theory students would disagree too !
It is well worth a look.

Book Review first appeared in the Australian Skeptic 2010

Book Review: Debunking 9/11 Myths

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 05:04:00 +0000

Review by Geoff Cowan.

Geoff is an avid member of the Western Sydney Freethinkers who thinks his horse has a conspiracy against his riding at times.

DUNBAR D and REAGAN B (Editors 2006) Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can’t Stand Up To the Facts (pp 170) Hearst Books

Since the attack on the United States by 19 terrorists in September 2001, a cottage industry of conspiracy has spawned and grown. Personally, I took little interest in these theories as the facts were pretty straight forward. I remember being woken late one night by a short terse phone call and my brother who just screamed “Turn on the TV” and I saw to my horror the second plane hit the second tower. It was evident by the television coverage, media and internet that a terrorist attack had been committed against the United States. I remember Osama Bin Laden actually taking credit for the attacks and other terrorist being arrested in the largest criminal investigation ever to be conducted. The large number of people that died that day, approximately 2600 involved people from over 100 countries and were composed of people of various religions, careers, ages all going about their duty. It is here that my personal distain for the “9/11 Truthers” starts to take hold. The conspiracy theories that have been developed show little respect for the victims of that day and the families of those victims.

Friend and fellow sceptic Peter Bowditch, who writes a blog on Yahoo7 addressed the 911 Truthers and in reading many of the responses to his forthright and succinct blog (1). Many of the responses to Peter’s blog demonstrated that after 8 years of solid investigations and reports with all the evidence being presented, and a pending criminal trial of one of the terrorist ready to commence in New York in 2010, people still believe that the United States government together with a variety of organisations form the Freemasons to the Zionist had something to do with the incident.

With that in mind, I decided to buy the book Debunking 9/11 Myths edited by the staff at the magazine Popular Mechanics (PM). PM has been in print for over 50 years and decided to address the conspiracies of 9/11 Truth Movement in a special edition in 2006, subsequently, that was expanded into a book with a forward by Senator John CAIN. I was very much moved by one statement in the forward by Cain (page xiv) which states:

“Any explanation for the tragedy of 9/11 must start and end with the facts. The evidence, the data – only then – can conclusions be drawn as to what happened.”

            Cain then states his feelings to the “Truthers” (page xv):

“They ignore the methods of science, the protocols of investigation and the dictates of logic. The conspiracy theorists chase any bit of information, no matter how flimsy and use it to their preordained conclusions”

            I could not have put it better. The book does address all the main theories that have been peddled by the Truthers into four separate chapters, being The Planes, The World Trade Centre, The Pentagon and Flight 93. This separates each of the incidents in a manner that allows for each of the theories to be addressed and discounted. The first question is, does the book achieve this aim ? I believe it does, in an excellent straight forward way. Each of the claims are stated and referenced to a person or website. Then each of the claims is dissected to its basic points and facts. One claim is that one of the aircraft that hit the first WTC Tower had no windows. Thus, the “Truthers” claim it was a military aircraft. But when the editor’s state that the person hat made the statement was standing in point A and the aircraft was banking (turning) at a 30 degree angle, yes, you would not see any windows either. Yet, the Truthers fail to outline the hundreds of witness statements that saw a civil aircraft fly into the tower, with windows, markers etc. Also, aircraft wreckage was located with windows, but that does not stop the Truthers ! Another Truthers claim is that the building was demolished; this was “evident” by the puffs of dust seen as the building collapsed. When a building collapses, dust, debris, fire proofing etc al get squeezed out and tis was evident in the videos of both Towers collapsing. Surprisingly, I read that the WTC was built to “full of air” to lower “dead weight” or the weight of the building; the construction was also unique as most of the stable columns were in the centre of the buildings. Thus, when the building collapsed, it “pancaked” and the dust left at the most appropriate points.

These were just two of the examples that are given in this excellent book. The Editor-In-Chief of PM, James Meigs, provides an Afterword to the claims and evidence which would be of interest to all sceptics. As a sceptic, I do look for patterns in conspiracy theories and Meigs has delivered an appropriate list of techniques used by Conspiracy Theorist. This list can be applied to just about all groups from anti-vaccination groups to crystal healers to ghost hunters to psychics. A short summary of the list includes discussion on “marginalization of opposing view”, Argument by anomaly”, “slipshod handling of facts” and other patterns that are used by conspiracy theorists.

I commend this book to all sceptics, but I will also expand this recommendation to include all people that have an interest in the facts and truth, but also to read a fitting example of how to address a conspiracy theory in a rational and logical manner. Dunbar and Reagan should be commended for the outstanding approach to this issue which has continued in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. This book is also timely, as I write this review, one of the terrorist have been committed for trial to a New York Court in early 2010. I can only hope that this trial will demonstrate the complete silliness of the 9/11 Truth Movement and that all rational people will look at the evidence, to which this book will be one port of call.

(1) http://au.news.yahoo.com/opinion/post/-blog/australianskeptics /post/19/ comment/1/ accessed 28NOV2009

(2) http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html PM Website for further information in regards to the article published in 2006

This Book Review was first published in the Australian Skepic 2010

Collision With Christians

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 02:28:00 +0000

By Jay, Bob and Bronwyn

On Thursday 9/12, a few members from the Western Sydney Freethinkers attended a screening of “Collision”, a movie that follows Christopher Hitchens (no intro needed) and Douglas Wilson (A christian pastor) through a series of public talks about the morality of Christianity. The screening was hosted by the Emu Plains Community Centre Baptist Church, with church members/christian guests making up about 85% of the audience. After the movie there was a Q & A with Ian Bryce (Australian Secular party, Sydney Atheists, Australian Sceptics) and Dr Andrew Ford (Moore Theological College).

According to our MC, both Hitchens and Wilson were shown the movie in its final cut and both agreed that it was even handed. One opinion could be that it was even handed because although Hitchens wins most of the arguments using rational arguments, Wilson (and the christian side) was portrayed in style that was meant to show how moral, patriotic and wholesome christianity is.

For example:

•    While Hitchens was shown in his study, on his own, surrounded by books and drinking whiskey, Wilson was shown at the dinner table with his family in jovial spirits while singing grace.
•    As a bible passage was being read by Wilson, the camera cut away to a shot of the American flag waving in the breeze.
•    The background music was often dark and brooding when showing montages of Hitchens in day to day activities.

Of particular note was the look of jubilation on the faces of the christian contingent whilst the scenes of children singing hymns was showing.

The movie did have some humorous moments, such as light-hearted bickering between the two speakers and boxing/wrestling music as a lead up to each speech. Irony was lost on Douglas when he utilsed the analogy of God being a jailer while your chained to a wall, used in the context of not being able to touch the jailer but the jailer can choose to touch you.We could go on to describe the movie for you so you don’t have to watch it, but essentially the arguments were

Hitchens
•    Religion stops progress
•    The bible has lots of immoral rules, such as how to keep slaves and to kill your enemies (every man, woman, child & beast)
•    Religion has been used by those in power to control the masses
•    Humans have evolved their own moral code that is necessary for the species to continue existing
•    The churches themselves have evolved with the progression of society, which would have been impossible with an omnipotent/omniscient god.

Douglas
•    All morality is attributed to god whether you are a believer or an atheist, but poor/no morals are a result of godlessness.
•    The first world is so successful and moral because of the high percentage of christian citizens.
•    Atheists have no father figure watching over them, so they are more likely to be immoral (have a good time!).
•    Stalin was an atheist, and that is why he was evil.
•    Why would an atheist care what happened, if there is no purpose to the world?

Q&A with Ian Bryce & Dr Andrew Ford

After the movie screening we were treated to a Q&A with representatives from both sides. As previously mentioned the Atheist contingent was out numbered but was by no means out classed. From my perspective; biased as it may be; Ian did a fantastic job, precisely and clearly answering the questions thrown by the crowd, he pulled no punches and always went straight at the heart of the matter, constantly reiterating that Christianity is nothing more than superstitious nonsense.

The Q&A was when we were the most riled up, Ian was forced into the defence position from the onset, Andrew was allowed to sit back smugly answering questions with whatever nonsense he could muster and the audience ate it up.

Andrew liked to play the morality card discussing the various outreach programs and how the church helps people, although not going into specifics. But when questioned on where morality comes from the issue was shrugged off stating “That's a debate for another time”. Ian on the other hand backed it up with the observation that morals evolved over time independent of religious teaching and the religions eventually adopted it as their own.

Ian made a great point (this is paraphrasing) that religion has no real world explaining power, where as the scientific method (conclusion through experimentation) is responsible for all human advances for example; brushing your teeth, washing and general hygiene, these are things that the apparent omniscient god did not advise about, so on that scale science 1,000,000,000,000 – Religion 0.

Post Q&A discussion with Christians: An unthinking enemy

Jay: I would have to admit that I was a little bit apprehensive about attending this event, not because I felt I may have a change of mind or a religious epiphany and run off screaming “hallelujah praise Jeebus” down the street, but more so because I wasn't sure if my arguments would hold up against the believers, the people who have devoted their life to a deity and have been (by their own admission) touched by the holy spirit. Well my friends, I must sadly report that my judgements of christianity where very wrong... I gave them far too much credit.

Firstly arguing Jesus existence in a hypothetical manner by saying “if there were a man who performed all these miracles, who rose from the dead, wouldn't he deserve our praise?” well yes... The same as Spiderman should for taking down Dr Octopus.

I received an argument that because Jesus' life was written about in four separate books therefore it must be true, well I pointed out that given that logic, there must be an island out there with Dinosaurs cloned from 65 million year old blood found in a mosquito encased in amber. An addition to this was the “How come so many people believe in Jesus then, if it were just a fable, the belief system would not have endured” Well we can see well documented evidence of how a belief system/Religion/Mythical figure can rise e.g. Scientology, Mormonism, FSM (I'm aware it's a parody but give it time), Harry Kenwell... to quote a great Atheist comedian and songwriter Tim Minchin ”I don't believe just 'cos ideas are tenacious it means they're worthy”.

The constant barrage of fallacies was testing our resolve, everywhere we turned they were firing them off as though scripted... Bang!! take a personal incredulity. Whack!! have a Bandwagon and for good measure take some special pleading, a straw man and several general Non Sequitur's.

I was very surprised at how easy it was to identify the flaws in their logic, that's the good thing about a circle, there's a lot of empty space at it's centre.

Bronwyn: The arguments presented by the Christian side were essentially the same that are always presented, but even Hitchens acknowledged in the film that it is rare in a debate that you’d hear an argument you’ve never heard before. “Irreducible complexity” is the idea that some biological structures are too complex to be subject to evolution, and it was argued as a way to dismiss the theory of evolution as a whole. It was thrown around with smug faces that didn’t wait to hear a rebuttal. But since there is no “real” evidence for evolution anyway, I guess we’re pretty silly to continue with this position of “faith”. After all, it’s preposterous that we evolved from monkeys! There seemed to be a common belief that if evolution can be discredited, then Christianity is the only logical conclusion, which is of course a false dichotomy. There was also confusion about the meaning of the word theory in a scientific context, and the argument that evolution has never been “proven”.

When discussing morality, they attempted to convince us that Hitler and Stalin were both atheists, and therefore atheism is immoral. Good thing that nothing bad has ever been done in the name of Christianity, otherwise wouldn’t that be embarrassing. In Q&A time, a Christian man asked the representatives from both the Christian and Atheist sides to list their charitable involvements, on the assumption that whether or not you believe in a god determines how charitable you are. So much for being humble.

After all was said and done, I doubt any minds were changed, and I’d bet that they will continue to use these same arguments over and over. But for all the facepalming, Christopher Hitchens definitely made the night worth it.

Bob: I chatted with two young men who decided that they would enlighten me as to how evolution was false. Their argument was simple – There aren’t enough transitional fossils, using the artists impression of “Descent of Man” as literal evidence. I tried to point out that every time a new so called transitional fossil is found, it creates 2 new gaps on each side, and that there aren’t any big leaps but minor changes over many generations to create any significant change. Their retort to that was – “why aren’t there fossils of each particular change in each species?” My reply “Fossils are very rare in relation to how many creatures have been alive throughout history, not everything gets fossilised”. Apparently that answer fits suspiciously too well, and they decided they wouldn’t pursue that point because I had too much “faith” in science/evidence/reality.

Then one guy decided it was time to bring up irreducible complexity, so I simply stated that his argument was invalid, and to try something else (I call it the “Dawkin’s Law”, in a similar vein to “Godwin’s Law”).

I also talked to one man who claimed that because there actually is a Jerusalem, Jesus must have existed, because Jerusalem is in the bible.

??????

He then went on to say that because there are no remains of Jesus Christ, which is proof he rose from the dead and later ascended into the heavens.

FACEPALM!!!!!!

GEOFF AND PETER"S CAVALCADE OF CONSPIRACY

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Sat, 20 Nov 2010 10:47:00 +0000

PETER 'THE REPTILIAN' BOWDITCH AND GEOFF 'I WAS PROBED BY OBAMA' COWAN WILL BE PUBLICLY BRAINWASHING THE POOR UNSUSPECTING FOLK OF WESTERN SYDNEY BY TRYING TO TELL THEM THAT CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE NOT TRUE DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY WERE BOTH INVOLVED IN THE DISAPPEARANCE OF HAROLD HOLT, PETER WAS THE LONE GUNMAN AT THE GRASSY NOLL AND GEOFF WAS THE PHOTOGRAPHER WHO SHOT THE FAKED MOON LANDING PICS SO THESE PEOPLE CANNOT BE TRU...STED AND WE NEED TO GO THERE AND DISRUPT THEIR TALK AND SAVE THE AUDIENCE FROM HEARING THIS HIGHLY DANGEROUS TALK AND WE ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO ASK QUESTIONS IN SINGLE SENTENCE ALLCAPS PARAGRAPHS BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES TO GET YOUR VOICE HEARD WHEN YOURE BEING SUPPRESSED BY 'THEM' AND DONT FORGET TO BRING YOUR TINFOIL HATS SO THEY CANT USE THEIR ILLUMINATI BRAINWAVE DISRUPTORS TO READ YOUR THOUGHTS AND THEN CALL IN THE MEN IN BLACK TO COME AND REMOVE YOU FROM THE HALL.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

SORRY FOR POSTING THIS EVENT AT LATE NOTICE. EVERY TIME IVE GONE TO PUT IT UP SO FAR IT'S BEEN REMOVED BEFORE I COULD EVEN FINISH WRITING IT!

THEY HAVE YOUR INFORMATION AND ARE OUT TO DESTROY OUR FREEDOM.

SHHHHHH... DONT TELL THEM IT'S AT THE PENRITH SCHOOL OF ARTS

3 Castlereagh St

Penrith, Australia

21 November · 16:00 - 19:00

Abuse in the catholic church with John Ellis of Broken Rites

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:26:00 +0000

October Meeting

John Ellis is a Solicitor who has been involved in the litigation against the Catholic Church in regards to the sexual abuse committed by that institution.

Himself a abused child, John will offer an insight into his experience and subsequent journey in dealing with the abuse and facing his attackers.

The presentation will be informative and interesting, but will demonstrate the courage that is being shown by victims of child sexual abuse by members of the Catholic Church in Australia today.

John is member of Broken Rites, a volunteer organisation that has bought forward the abuse by the church and leads the fight for justice of these victims.

This is a presentation that should not be missed!

Time	24 October · 16:00 - 19:00

Location	Penrith School of Arts 3 Castlereagh St Penrith, Australia

Freethinkers' July Meeting: Tales of the Popes with Larry Buttrose

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 07:20:00 +0000

Blue Mountains author Larry Buttrose will deliver a talk on "The Church's Persecution of the Philosopher Giordano Bruno".

His talk will be based on a talk he delivered on the subject on the Ockham's Razor programme on ABC Radio National last year. Last year he also published his popular history of the papacy,"Tales of the Popes: From Eden to El Dorado - an Infamous History".

With the Roman Catholic Church engulfed in controversy over continuing revelations of child sex abuse by members of its clergy, this talk which revisits an infamous misdeed by the Church could be expected to prompt some lively discussion.

Date:	Sunday, 18 July 2010
Time:	16:00 - 19:00
Location:	Penrith School of Arts
Street:	3 Castlereagh St
Town/City:	Penrith, Australia

Freethinkers' Birthday Party!!!

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:34:00 +0000

WOW! It's been a year already?!?

We'll be celebrating the first birthday of the Western Sydney Freethinkers with a GIANT BIRTHDAY BASH!

While we're not entirely confirmed on the venue, what we do know is that there'll be a menagerie of movies on the big screen, music, games, puzzles, food and drink... and cake...

We're taking suggestions, so if you can think of anything that you think would be fun, just let us know and we'll see what we can do. Freethinkers trivia, with prizes is one suggestion that we're working on.

It's likely that it'll go on into the evening and continue at a local pub afterwards, so be ready for a big night of fun!

Tell your friends! Bring your nan! Let's see how many people we can get, because the more that come, the better it's going to be!

Keep an eye out for updates on venue, etc...

Freethinkers June Meeting

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:55:00 +0000

We've just had our monthly meeting where Peter Bowditch gave a great talk on misunderstanding statistics and risk. Although it sounds like a fairly dry and flat subject, true to style, Peter managed to make it one of the most interesting and engaging talks to date.

We're now out for dinner at the RSL and it looks like the gang's all here, ready to keep the vibe going with a night of friendly chatting, food, drink and merriment!

Maybe next time, you'll come along too?

Laser tag Battle

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:08:00 +0000

Today, the wheat was sorted from the chaff... The men from the boys, the bop from the bop shoo wop shoo wop.

A glorious battle between the Sydney Atheists and Western Sydney Freethinkers was waged and after the smoke had cleared it became apparent that the evil Sydney Atheists must have secretly been invoking the power of some supernatural being... We ended up losing 2-1, but I like to think that we won once and allowed them to win twice, nice people that we are...

Despite abject failure, therefore destroying the reputation of our group forever, it was great fun and we all had a really great time.

Next inter-group challenge will be an archery/body piercing contest. Details to come...

3 Thinkers Podcast OUT NOW!

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 09:56:00 +0000

While things may have been a little quiet on this blog for a while now, we have been hard at work to develop our new weekly podcast!

The show is called 'The 3 Thinkers' and will be brought to you each week by Alan, Fred and Matt (see illustration <--), 3 bearded skeptics (is there any other type?).

We will be covering skepticism, atheism, science, ethics and a whole lot of other 'freethought' topics, so there'll be something for everyone.

The first two episodes are already up, so if you haven't had a chance to check it out already, there's no time like the present! Episode 1 is a discussion on what freethought means to us, and on episode 2, we look at some strange news from the world of science.

The shows are linked thought our podcast page, which you can find here.

You can 'become a fan' of the 3 Thinkers on facebook here, where you can keep up to date with what's going on, and get involved via the discussion boards and tell us what you think of the show, suggest topics for us to discuss or chat about the shows. We're open to any suggestions at this stage and are happy to hear what you think could be changed or improved.

You can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, or your preferred podcatching software by following the links on the podcast page.

Freethinkers' Mayday Picnic

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Sat, 01 May 2010 03:53:00 +0000

Despite the early rain,the picnic has turned out pretty well... Having a good time with intelligent and interesting conversation.

Blood Drive 2

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 00:28:00 +0000

Another successful blood drive for the Western Sydney Feeethinkers. This time we had 5 attendees, bringing our total to 11 donations. We are now equal 5th on the leaderboard! Way ahead of all the churches! Three cheers for reason!

Our next donation will be on Saturday, June 26th. Please consider coming along with us. Its really easy, doesn't hurt and takes very little time, but it means so much to those who need it. A single donation can save 3lives! So, please consider joining us in donating on our next blood drive.

And if you already regularly donate, but it doesn't line up with us, you can always tell them you're from Western Sydney Freethinkers and it'll be counted in our tally.

March Meeting: The OZSETI project

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:30:00 +0000

Date:	Sunday, 21 March 2010
Time:	16:00 - 19:00
Location:	3 Castlereagh Street, Penrith

Dr Ragbir Bhathal is an award winning author and astrophysicist, who carries out research in Australian science studies, physics and astronomy at the University of Western Sydney Macarthur. He was the recipient of the prestigious Nancy Keesing Fellowship in 1996, by the State Library of New South Wales. This was to carry out a major study on the scientific life and letters of Australia’s most famous 19th century astronomer, John Tebbutt. His recent book, Australian Astronomers: Achievements at the frontiers of astronomy, published by the National Library of Australia, was on the best seller’s list. In launching the book in Canberra, the President of the Australian Academy of Science, Sir Gustav Nossal said that the publication was "an important and major book on science and astronomy in Australia".

Dr Bhathal teaches physics and astronomy and was Foundation Chairman of the SETI Australia Centre at the University of Western Sydney Macarthur. He teaches the only University based course on SETI (Searching for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) in any Australian University. Called Astronomy and Life in the Universe the course is one of the most popular courses at the University and attracts students not only from the Faculty of Science but also from the business, health, humanities and law faculties. A member of the International SETI Committee of the international Academy of Aeronautics and Astronautics and was the Chairman of the International and Local Organising Committees of the Conference on SETI in the 21st Century. This was the first international conference in the world to discuss the scientific and social aspects of SETI. He is Chairman and Project Director of the Campbelltown Observatory at the University and is working on optical SETI with a group of scientists. He is also Foundation Chairman of the Australia-Singapore Centre and a Councilor of the University of Western Sydney Macarthur Council and is also the Foundation President of the Independent Scholars Association of Australia (NSW Chapter).

A member of the academic staff of the University of Singapore before becoming Foundation Director of the Singapore Science Centre, a "science museum of influence in the 20th century", he was a member of the senior management team that built the Power House Museum. He was the Foundation Head of the Science and Technology Division and was responsible for the supervision of the design and construction of the science and technology displays in the Museum, and was appointed as Project Director of the Sydney Observatory building restoration and exhibit programs.

Dr Bhathal served as Director on the International Board of Directors of the Association of Science and Technology Centres in Washington, USA, and was a distinguished visitor of the US State Department. He was secretary of the Singapore National Academy of Science and the Singapore Association for the Advancement of Science of which he is a Fellow. He was Foundation President of the Singapore Society of Science Writers.

Appointed as adviser to the Australian Federal Minister for Science and was asked to serve as an UNESCO consultant on science policy and to represent the Australian and Singapore governments at international conferences on the public understanding of science. He was the leader of the Singapore government delegation to the 6th Meeting of ASEAN Experts Group on marine pollution and has served on various high level committees of the Singapore government including the Science Council of Singapore, National R & D Committee, etc.

His publications include, Australian Astronomers: Achievements at the frontiers of astronomy; Under the Southern Cross: A brief history of astronomy in Australia; Australian Astronomer: John Tebbutt; Astronomy for the Higher School Certificate; Searching for ET; Australian Scientists and Inventors; Singapore Towards the Year 2000 (co-ed); Non-formal education in Singapore (co-ed); Singapore Science Fiction (co-ed); Government and University Research (co-ed); Cultural Heritage Vs Technological Development: Challenges to Education (co-ed) and numerous papers in international journals..

He was former editor of the Singapore Scientist and a Contributing Editor of ASIA 2000 and has served as President of the Royal Society of New South Wales and was awarded the 1988 Royal Society Medal for services to science. Also, Dr Bhathal was awarded the prestigious 1991 C. J. Dennis Award for excellence in natural history writing.

February Meeting: Alternative Atheism

westernsydneyfreethought@live.com (Alan Conradi) — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:25:00 +0000

We have a Double-Header this month!

David Staume, author of "The Atheist Afterlife". David is an a philosopher, author and public speaker.

AND

Gerry Texeira, Sydney Area Manager of the International Raelian Movement

As well as running his website www.modernphilosophy.com, David writes philosophy and commentary for magazines and radio.

David lives with his wife, Deborah, and his three children. He is currently studying at the University of London. Both he and his wife have a goal of visiting a hundred countries. With his current count at thirty-seven he estimates that he will have to live to about a hundred and twenty-five.
© David Staume 2008

Gerry will give a presentation and open discussion on Raelianism. From their website:
The Raelian Revolution is truly a love revolution made up of thousands of people discovering themselves, developing their personalities and putting into practice the non conformist teachings of the Elohim. So when Raelians get together, they really have fun, and there is plenty of room for you too.
I think this is going to a whole lot of fun!

I think Castlereagh St is closed to traffic until the 21st but there is a car park behind the School of Arts.

Date:	Sunday, 21 February 2010
Time:	16:00 - 19:00
Location:	Penrith School of Arts
Street:	3 Castlereagh Street
Town/City:	Penrith, Australia