***

The Fear of Wasting Time

How many years have we spent not, under any circumstances, wasting time?

I spent two decades panicked about wasting time. 

There were too many things to do: the work, the relationships, the dinners, the laundry, the homework, the forced family fun.

In the throes of our thirties and forties, there was never enough time.

And if we did take time to create, to relax, to even rest, we called it stealing time as if napping was a felony.

Call us criminals.

When the Body Forces Us to Slow Down

Sometimes our push to be efficient and get it all done triggers a health issue that forces us to rest.

We are familiar with that phenomena, where our bodies express what our conscious minds deny.

Too much stress?

We have an accident, we catch cold, our bodies somehow manage to slow us down.

Do you always get sick in January — called flu season?

It’s the only response to the holidays our bodies can express.

The Myth of Self-Care

I also love the directive to “Carve out time for you.”

Or “Take time for self- care.” 

If people weren’t overworked and underpaid in the first place, maybe the bubble bath wouldn’t be necessary.

Plus the idea that we can solve the systemic problems in our culture with bath salts is insulting.

Art Looks Like Wasted Time

Enter your art practice.

Art absolutely looks like a waste of time. 

To make art, we must slow down to a human pace.

For two centuries we’ve worked at an increasingly faster rate but our ancient nervous systems haven’t kept up.

With the Industrial Revolution, with computers, with wonderfully fast cars, we’ve picked up speed believing that moving fast and breaking things is the way forward.

But breaking things may still be a bad idea and the only thing I really need to move fast is an ambulance.

So let’s re-think the need for speed at the grocery store.

Or in our garden.

Or with our art.

Slowing Down Is Part of the Creative Process

Don’t keep pulling up the tomato plants to examine the root system.

Allow that starting at a blank page or just figuring out how to hold a new instrument is part of the thinking.

Art is not fast, despite stop action films on Instagram.

No one does anything in under 15 seconds.

We don’t even do much in 15 minutes.

Give yourself 15 hours, then measure your progress.

One of the many benefits of making art is it demands we slow.

That’s how we get into our flow.

We must take time. 

Even that phrase Take Your Time, resonates.

Take it.

Okay, steal it. 

Take Your Time — Or Steal It

Think of time as the pile of fries on your partner’s plate.

You ordered the salad, but you wanted the fries.

And each fry you steal from their plate tastes better because they are an undeserved gift.

Time is the same.

Time tastes better when it was meant for something else.

The Gift of Unexpected Time

Remember how delicious a snow day was?

A sudden break in the schedule, all our appointments and obligations suddenly rendered impossible.

A whole day of — nothing.

Or the pretend disappointment over a cancelled meeting?

A free hour! 

But you wasted it didn’t you?

Instead of walking in the park, you caught up on email.

Instead, what if that gift of time was spent on your art?  

What If You Chose Art Instead?

Once you get into the swing of stolen time, a surprising (or dangerous) idea emerges.

What if you didn’t have to steal the time from a cancelled meeting?

What if you quit the group that holds meetings and do your art instead?

What if you replaced that committee time with art studio time?

Oh man, that is crazy talk.

Still . . .

Learn More

Look for my new book — Take Up Space — Art is Your Second Act.

***

Want to read more articles like this one Writer’s Fun Zone? Subscribe here.

***

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Catharine Bramkamp is a successful writing coach, Chief Storytelling Officer, former co-producer of Newbie Writers Podcast, and author of a dozen books including the Real Estate Diva Mysteries series, and The Future Girls series. She holds two degrees in English and is an adjunct university professor. After fracturing her wrist, she has figured out there is very little she is able to do with one hand tied behind her back. She delights in inspiring her readers.

The post Wasting Time by Catharine Bramkamp appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

How To Use Notion AI for Developmental Editing – How To Write the Future podcast, episode 212

***

“ My end goal is to be able to say to the writer, “Here’s where you’re weak, here’s where you’re strong.” – Beth Barany

In this forward thinking How To Write the Future episode, titled “How To Use Notion AI for Developmental Editing” host Beth Barany shares how authors can use AI ethically to help them in their writing, explains how she uses Notion AI for her clients, and includes a detailed work-through and the step-by-step analysis of how it works.

Platforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube

RESOURCES

JOIN: For fiction writers! You’ve finished your first draft! Congrats! Now what?

Join the Future-Ready Writer membership and get premium weekly lessons and a monthly Q&A on Zoom. Subscribe: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061/subscribe

FREE: Sign up here to get your World Building Workbook for Fiction Writers

Overwhelmed by world-building for your sci-fi/fantasy novel? Use these prompts to brainstorm your story’s world: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/world-building-resources/

SHOP**: Sci‑Fi & Fantasy 24 Writing Prompts:** https://ko-fi.com/s/4ac9160a74

Want to be interviewed on the podcast? => Email us!

FOR CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSIONALS – BUILD YOUR BUSINESS SERVING WRITERS

Sign up to be notified when our training opens and get a short Creative Business Style Quiz to help you create success.

https://bethbarany.com/apprenticeship/

Support our work for creatives!

Buy me a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany

GET SUPPORT FOR YOUR FICTION WRITING BY A NOVELIST AND WRITING TEACHER AND COACH

Schedule an exploratory call here and see if Beth can support you today: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/discovery-call/

About the How To Write the Future podcast 

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

This podcast is for you if you have questions like:

– How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?

– How do I figure out what’s not working if my story feels flat?

– How do I make my story more interesting and alive?

This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

Transcript for Privacy‑First AI for Developmental Editing (Without Uploading Your Draft) 

Why This AI Episode

BETH BARANY: So I was recently talking with an author of mine who really liked this process I made for her using AI tools. And then also, another client of mine asked me, ” How is AI impacting your life?” I’m like, ” Oh my God, that’s such a big question.”

So I thought I would devote today’s episode to talking about the way I’m using AI specifically to help writers.

I understand there are writers out there who are categorically opposed to using any of these AI tools. This episode is not for you. This episode is for people who are curious about how to use AI tools and do it in an ethical way, and actually have it be helpful.

[00:50] Meet Beth Barany

So hi, everyone, I’m Beth Barany. I run How to Write the Future podcast. I’m your host and guide. I am a creativity coach and writer, writing teacher. I write science fiction and fantasy. I’m here to share tips, share my wisdom, share my point of view, and help you walk away with something useful.

Also, I really believe that our stories can help us reshape who we are as human beings. And so with that light, let’s dive into today’s episode about how AI can actually benefit you as a writer.

[01:25] The Editing Project 

So I work with novelists, and I have one use case to share with you today. And that is I spent, gosh, a year, maybe more, working with this author, going through her chapters and offering up comments and edits. And then she would send it back to me with questions and changes, and then I would answer back with more comments, and I would also say, “Hey, good job here,” and answering her questions.

So about half her book, we did two rounds of edits, and then the second half of her book, I think we just did so far one round of edits. And when I speak about edits, in this case, we are staying in the realm of developmental edits. There was very few line edits in this this round. It was a first pass on her novel, and it was developmental edits. About character, about story, about plot, about world-building.

Okay, so there we are. We’re done. Whew. It’s took us some time to get through all of this, and because we were doing it over time in small chunks. She is a client of mine in the group mastermind program where she gets a monthly call with me, and I edit her book monthly.

And we did it, actually, we broke it into smaller pieces, and so in any given month, maybe I was looking at a piece of her novel every week. Sometimes twice a week. We just cut it into really small chunks so that it was easier to deal with. So every chapter has six parts, which was fine with me. I’m flexible.

[02:55] The Real Problem 

So I had all of this material and tons of comments, 36 chapters. I touched her manuscript, nine times in every chapter. And that is what I needed to get analyzed.

My end goal was: how can I analyze and compile all of my comments?

Let’s look at the trends. What are the trends? What are her weak areas, and what are her strong areas?

Now, I knew intuitively that this was a great use case for using AI tools because this is what they’re good at. They’re good at compiling a whole lot of information and summarizing it.

[03:26] Privacy First Approach 

But I wanted to do it in a way that I did not feed her book into ChatGPT or Claude or whatever.

I didn’t want her book to go into one of these engines at all. It… So I’m like, “But I still wanna use the tools, and I know they can shortcut this for me.” So here’s what I did.

[03:46] Notion AI Solution

I worked with Notion AI, Notion’s AI, and I pay for that. That’s the only place I pay f- to have access to the souped-up version, uh, the AI tools.

Not the free tools, but the paid tools. And AI, Notion, I believe, uses a combination of a few different…I think they use Anthropic, Claude’s Anthropic, and I think they use ChatGPT, OpenAI’s ChatGPT. I could be wrong. If I am, it’s gonna be in the show notes, so don’t worry.

What’s important here is I told Notion what are my restrictions. I said, “I don’t wanna feed this book into an, into an LLM,” a large language model, which are used to build these tools. “What I want is to have you compil- or have a tool like you compile all my comments in a way that’s organized so we could see what’s going on in the prologue, chapter one, chapter two, etcetera, all the way to chapter 36.”

So I said, “What are my options?” I actually asked it to tell me all the options, and it gave me a bunch of options. A lot of them I eliminated because they were either feeding it into the LLM or too complicated or had too many steps. And honestly, I can’t remember what they are, but I can tell you what the solution is. What we came up with, which suited what I was already used to.

Notion is a land of databases, and I have already been working with different databases, so I knew their value.

[05:11] Building The Macro 

What I ended up doing is having Notion write a macro for me that I loaded into Microsoft Word. Now, I have the lightest understanding of macros. They’re essentially code that are like shortcuts that can do multiple steps in a push of a button.

I understood the concept. So I worked with Notion’s AI to build a macro, and I, because I don’t read code, it wrote the code for me, but, and because I could read it but not understand it, I asked it to tell me what it does. And I went through that very carefully, what it doesn’t do, and it asked me questions, and I answered them, and it, I had it build this macro.

Then I tested it. I followed the instructions how to load the macro into Microsoft Word so I could use it anytime I wanted to. So I tested it, seemed to work fine.

[06:03] Workflow In Action 

Here’s what I do now. Is I organize the chapter, I compile all the parts of the chapter. For example, I was looking at chapter three.

There’s 24 parts, and some of those are her things that she sent to me, and I can easily see what they are, and then some of it, half of it is my notes to her.

So I calculated. There’s 12 Word documents in chapter three that I want analyzed. So I open up each one, hit the macro button. It outputs for me a CSV file, a spreadsheet file. When I have all of those, I upload them into Notion. It creates a database. I don’t really, I don’t read the database. I ask Notion AI to read the database, and I’ve already told it what I want. I want it to compile a summary.

That’s my end goal. My end goal is to be able to say to the writer, “Here’s where you’re weak, here’s where you’re strong,” and, for chapter three.

And then eventually, I will have her strengths and weaknesses compiled for every chapter, and then I will do a macro analysis.

For every step of this analysis, I’m basically having Notions AI summarize my comments and put them into a readable format. Short paragraphs with bullet points, with subheaders. That’s it.

[07:20] Why It Works 

I think this is a good use of AI. This is very detailed left-brained work that I’m not excellent at. I’m excellent at the emotional intuitive work, but also I understand story structure and I understand how to build a good story. So my comments to her are structural and also character-oriented.

And I’m thinking of how is the reader gonna relate to this? Is this interesting? Is it captivating? Does it grab me? And again, only on the story level and on the character level, not yet on the sentence level. Take a deep breath. This is what AI is good for. It’s compiling a whole bunch of information and organizing it.

[08:03] Ethical Tips And Wrap 

So I encourage you to to play with this. You could develop your own macro. I would definitely support your desire not to feed your book into any of the AI tools because then they get to… it’s, they’re gonna take it, and it’s, if it’s connected to the master, databases, it could be used. You know, if you don’t check the right button, they could be training off of your data.

So if you don’t want them to do that, then go ahead and find a workaround. So this was my workaround. The writer is so grateful. She gets to see a summary with bullet points. It is so useful. So let me know, in the comments or write me what you think of this use case. If you’ve come up with any other use cases that both protect the privacy of the writer and of your own writing and help you, like a writer’s assistant, and help you in ways that maybe you’re weak and you’re strong over here and it’s helping you over there.

All right. So that’s it for this week, everyone. Write long and prosper.

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here:

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061 

Need instructions on how to leave a review? Go here.

***

Support our work for creatives: leave a tip: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany 

***

ABOUT BETH BARANY 

Beth Barany is an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. They help novelists write, revise, and publish stories that matter—blending practical craft guidance with a big-picture commitment to imagination, meaning, and possibility. 

Learn more about Beth Barany at these sites: 

Author site /  Coaching site / School of Fiction / Writer’s Fun Zone blog

CONNECT

Contact Beth: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/podcast/#tve-jump-185b4422580

Email: beth@bethbarany.com

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbarany/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/bethbarany/

TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@bethbarany/

FB: https://www.facebook.com/bethbarany

X: https://twitter.com/BethBarany

CREDITS 

• EDITED WITH DESCRIPT: https://www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA (Refer-a-Friend link)
• MUSIC CREDITS : Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/fuzz-buzz License code: UMMKDRL02DFGKJ0L. “Fuzz buzz” by Soundroll. Commercial license: https://musicvine.com/track/soundroll/fuzz-buzz.
• DISTRIBUTED BY BUZZSPROUT: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1994465 (Refer-a-Friend link)
• SHOW PRODUCTION BY Beth Barany
• SHOW CO-PRODUCTION + NOTES by Kerry-Ann McDade
• EDITORIAL by Iman Llompart 

c 2025 BETH BARANY

https://bethbarany.com/

For more “How To Write the Future” episodes, go here.

If you’d like to invite Beth onto your podcast, drop her a note here.

Like the work we do? Tip us! https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany 

The post How To Use Notion AI for Developmental Editing appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

***

Taking a trip down memory lane may not be the nostalgic journey many imagine it to be.

Memory lane may be a distorted, fractured place, laden with quiet skeletons ready to be resurrected at the slightest invitation.

However, anyone on the healing journey knows that this is precisely the soul arena that needs to be excavated — revealed to be healed as many within the wellness community advocate.

While there are many modalities to go about this — therapy, meditation, reiki, nature walks — what more resonant way for the writer than to write into the experience?

Memoir as Healing Modality

Memoir writing is not simply the act of reconstructing the past and logging memories in chronological order.

Memoir is a form of creative nonfiction where the page offers a safe space to unpick the narrative threads weaving life events together.

It is the act of remembering and re-interpreting the past as well as one’s relationship to it.

Through noticing triggers, patterns and experiences one is able to separate the events from the emotions involved, gaining a sense of detachment which makes processing the past easier.

Many writers find that moving from the experiencer to the witness allows them to see their past from a different perspective.

The role of the observer offers the possibility of witnessing the carousel of life without the emotional charge certain memories may carry with them.

Expressive Writing: An Emotional Container

James Pennebaker, an American social psychologist, developed a technique called Expressive Writing.

This protocol involves having individuals choose an emotionally laden memory and subsequently write about it for 15-20 minutes every day.

Research suggested that participants who engaged in the exercise regularly reported reduced stress and anxiety as well as improvements in markers associated with physical wellbeing.

While past events remained unchanged, one of the key contributing factors to the transformation was that the individuals were able to organize their experiences into a coherent framework.

Instead of fragmented thoughts, emotions and experiences floating chaotically within, the act of writing solidified the memories into a container, making it more manageable to process.

Historically, humanity has leaned on storytelling as a means to make sense of the world.

The container of a story offers both a sense of clarity over the past and a roadmap for the future.

While this is true on a collective level, it is also true on an individual level.

Through exploring our personal memories, inherited stories and belief systems we not only record the past but have the potential to rewrite the future.

When the Witness is Witnessed

Publishing your personal memoir can bring an additional layer of healing to the experience.

You are no longer operating in typical writerly isolation but being seen in your vulnerability.

Sharing can be among a close-knit few or it can be a more expansive endeavour, depending on what the story is ready for.

While the journey you have walked is uniquely yours, it can provide a framework for someone navigating similar experiences, searching for a guiding light.

Your story can be that lighthouse, offering hope to someone searching for a way forward amidst the choppy waters of life.

Keeping It Between You and the Page

While memoir writing can be shared, connecting you to others who have been through similar experiences and allowing you to create a sense of shared meaning, it can also remain a solitary healing process.

One of the beautiful things about writing memoir to heal the self is that there are no fancy bells and whistles necessary — no expensive computer programs or even past writing experience are required to engage with this healing modality.

Memoir writing is accessible to anyone with the ability and willingness to remember, notice and peel back the mythic layers of personal memory — discovering the lessons, insights and epiphanies nestled within.

Authoring Our Story: An Act of Empowerment

While we cannot rewrite the past, we do have agency over our future.

Sifting through memories, confronting the challenges while recognizing the wins remind us of our resilience and strength.

The page reveals the chapters of our lives which we have successfully navigated as well as the bookmarked ones, patiently waiting for us to return with fresh eyes and a heavy dose of compassion.

Careful reflection and reframing provide us with the tools to write the future, gently leaving behind the narratives which no longer serve, adding footnotes for further examination and ending chapters only to begin new ones.

Authoring our story not only helps us understand who we are, but how we came to be.

It gives us the potential to switch plotlines when we need to, introduce new characters and narrate new experiences so that we can decorate our narrative with the epic illustrations they deserve.

An Evolving Story

Memoir shows us that memories are not moments trapped in capsules of time relegated to a distant past.

Instead, through writing, it reveals that the past is a living entity, capable of puppeteering the narrative strings if we allow it.

Past, present and future converge on the page until a narrative which can only be yours finally emerges.

When this happens, each page flipped in the narrative of your story is no longer turned into trepidation and fear.

Instead, a longing fills that space — an excitement fuels the words as they tumble across the page, writing themselves in a scribbled, enthusiastic mess.

Instead of slamming your book of life shut at the end of the day, desperate for the escape sleep offers, you may find the quiet urge to explore just one more chapter before lights out.

***

About The Author

Nicole Plumridge is a three-time published author whose debut novel became an Amazon bestseller.

Her work has appeared in The Poetryhood and Half-Light Magazine.

She is also a creativity and book coach who supports creatives in building creative practices and reconnecting with their inner magic.

Connect with Nicole and book a discovery call if your creativity is calling you.

Website: https://nicoleplumridgecoaching.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/authornicoleplumridge

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-plumridge-39512368

The post Memoir Writing as Therapeutic Practice by Nicole Plumridge appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

Write the Future: Our Five Themes – How To Write the Future podcast, episode 211

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“Writing craft is about meaning and the reader experience. I really don’t teach rigid rules because language is evolving constantly, and it’s all about choices.” – Beth Barany

In this How To Write the Future podcast episode, titled “Write the Future: Our Five Themes,” host Beth Barany shares the five themes often discussed on the podcast, which include writing craft tips, helpful advice, walkthroughs, and interviews.

Beth also explains why she believes our personal creativity can be used to reshape humanity and shares the one thing that she believes beats “the hustle” every time.

The five topic themes:

• World building
• Creative Process & Mindset
• Publishing
• Marketing
• AI Ethics

Do you have a question on one of the topics above? Then Beth invites you to get in touch, and your question could be shared in an upcoming podcast episode.

Platforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube

RESOURCES

JOIN: For fiction writers! You’ve finished your first draft! Congrats! Now what?

Join the Future-Ready Writer membership and get premium weekly lessons and a monthly Q&A on Zoom. Subscribe: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061/subscribe

FREE: Sign up here to get your World Building Workbook for Fiction Writers

Overwhelmed by world-building for your sci-fi/fantasy novel? Use these prompts to brainstorm your story’s world: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/world-building-resources/

SHOP**: Sci‑Fi & Fantasy 24 Writing Prompts:** https://ko-fi.com/s/4ac9160a74

Want to be interviewed on the podcast? => Email us!

FOR CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSIONALS – BUILD YOUR BUSINESS SERVING WRITERS

Sign up to be notified when our training opens and get a short Creative Business Style Quiz to help you create success.

https://bethbarany.com/apprenticeship/

Support our work for creatives!

Buy me a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany

GET SUPPORT FOR YOUR FICTION WRITING BY A NOVELIST AND WRITING TEACHER AND COACH

Schedule an exploratory call here and see if Beth can support you today: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/discovery-call/

About the How To Write the Future podcast 

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

This podcast is for you if you have questions like:

– How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?

– How do I figure out what’s not working if my story feels flat?

– How do I make my story more interesting and alive?

This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

Transcript for Write the Future: Our Five Themes

Introduction 

BETH BARANY: Hi, everyone. Beth Barany here with How to Write the Future podcast. Today, I’m sick, so no camera. 

All right, on to this week’s episode.

I wanna let you know some of the topics that we’ve been covering on How to Write the Future, for the last four years. I’m coming up on the fourth anniversary, so exciting, and there are five main topics that I have talked about, and of course can continue to talk about.

So if you have questions on these five topics, let me know. And of course, I accept questions on other topics as well.

[00:35] Podcast Focus and Optimism 

My podcast is really for fiction writers. It is for fiction writers who write science fiction, fantasy, anything that falls under the speculative fiction umbrella. 

I especially like genre mashups.

Also, my stance is one of obstinate… Can I say that again? Obstinate optimism.

Meaning I really believe that fiction and our creativity, can be tools for good and can be tools that can reshape humanity. and there’s some other core beliefs that I have.

Writing craft is about meaning and the reader experience. I really don’t teach rigid rules because language is evolving constantly, and it’s all about choices. Choices about your villains, the story structure or conflict or character motivation. It’s all in the service of aliveness, emotional resonance, clarity, and forward momentum. 

What I care about and what I want you to care about is helping the reader be pulled through the story.

[01:44] Worldbuilding Through Character 

The other stance that I have is that world-building is filtered through character. 

We only wanna reveal what is important through your character’s perception in a way that it supports immersion and avoids info dumps. I have done a lot of episodes on world-building. And really culture and context belong in the foundation of your story, it’s not just decoration. I don’t care about adding more lore. What I care about is what your characters know and use and come from. That’s culture.

[02:17] Creative Process and Mindset 

Thirdly, creative process. 

I love talking about creative process. I believe that sustainable creativity comes from trust, compassion, and small doable steps.

Really my signature is around self-trust, being gentle with yourself around your messy first drafts, and practices that reduce shame or pressure on yourself. I treat mindset like a practical craft tool. How you write does affect what you can write, and in my mind, the sky’s the limit. You can write in a lot of different ways if your heart desires.

[02:54] Publishing and Marketing Values

Which brings me to publishing and marketing. 

I have a heart-centered approach.

A heart-centered approach that’s values aligned, and that’s what I encourage you to have your focus on for your marketing. I think that beats hustle every single time, at least for me and people like me. Marketing and the business side of being an author is part of the creative path, not something outside of it, but part of it.

So the big question is, how can writers sell their books without selling their soul? And they can, because I think you can choose strategies that fit your strengths, build real relationships, and aim for long-term sustainability, not desperation.

It’s a whole other way of thinking about being in business, and I talk a lot about this in my creative entrepreneur incubator programs, and I bring it all here too as well.

[03:50] AI Ethics for Writers 

And lastly, about AI and other technology. 

I think we can be curious and ethical. I think we can use these tools without surrendering authorship.

In fact, I don’t think we want to surrender authorship. That’s what makes us unique. That’s what makes us human. We are not machines.

I really don’t take an all or nothing stance around AI. I really emphasize critical thinking, being aware of consent, being aware of rights, and really bringing your own human creativity and taking leadership.

Don’t cede your higher thinking skills to these machines. 

I really encourage writers to understand the landscape of the AI and other tools coming and to respond intentionally. Not fearfully and not blindly. To really think about it for discernment.

[04:35] Wrap Up and Invitation 

I thought I would tell you, the big buckets that I talk about, so you can ask me more questions about these.

The best way to ask me a question is to email me from howtowritethefuture.com and I will see your question. Also, you can @ bethbarany me on the socials. I’m on most of the socials. But really the best way is email. I could pull out some highlighted episodes that point to the things I listed here today, but there’s over 200, so I invite you to explore the backlog.

You can also see them all listed at howtowritethefuture.com, or if you’re looking for something specific, write me and ask me and I’ll help you find it.

So that’s it for this week, everyone. Write long and prosper.

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here:

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061 

Need instructions on how to leave a review? Go here.

***

Support our work for creatives: leave a tip: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany 

***

ABOUT BETH BARANY

Beth Barany is an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. They help novelists write, revise, and publish stories that matter—blending practical craft guidance with a big-picture commitment to imagination, meaning, and possibility. 

Learn more about Beth Barany at these sites: 

Author site /  Coaching site / School of Fiction / Writer’s Fun Zone blog

CONNECT 

Contact Beth: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/podcast/#tve-jump-185b4422580

Email: beth@bethbarany.com

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbarany/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/bethbarany/

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ABOUT THIS EPISODE 

In this heartfelt second episode, host Iman Llompart sits down with mother–daughter writing duo Rachel McLaughlin and Michele Burns for an intimate, meaningful conversation about creativity, fear, and the power of growing as writers side by side.

Rachel and Michele dive into how storytelling has shaped their family across generations, how they each found their way into writing during very different life seasons, and how creativity becomes both anchor and expression through motherhood, identity shifts, and self-rediscovery.

They open up about their deepest writing fears—being misunderstood, not being read, or exposing too much of themselves—and share the rituals and mindset shifts that help them keep writing even when the inner critic gets loud. Through laughter, honesty, and a rare look into a shared creative relationship, they show how writing can be a lifeline, a mirror, and a bridge between generations.

If you’ve ever questioned whether your writing is “enough,” this conversation is a reminder that every draft, every wobble, and every return to the page matters.

Episode Highlights

• A beautiful glimpse into the creative lineage of a mother and daughter writing together
• How life transitions—motherhood, career changes, self-discovery—shaped their writing journeys
• Their biggest writing fears and how vulnerability plays into their work
• The small rituals that help them move through overwhelm and get unstuck
• The unique support system they’ve built for each other through honest feedback and encouragement
• The surprising emotional depth and messiness they’ve discovered in the drafting process
• Sneak peeks into their current projects—from morally complex women’s fiction to dark academia and speculative YA

Transcript for episode 2 – Mother Daughter Duo 

Greetings 

Michele: How are you?

Iman: Good. We’ll just wait a little bit then for Rachel to join.

Michele: Oh, she’ll, she, she’s ready. She’s, she’s ready. I’m just gonna tell my others not to, uh, FaceTime.

Iman: Oh, okay. Okay. 

Michele: Uh,

Iman: okay, well then I’ll just, um,

Michele: Rachel, Rachel is, looks like she’s coming. She’s coming now.

Iman: Okay.

Michele: So Rachel and me online meeting, do not FaceTime cause we FaceTime each other a million times a day. Hello.  

Iman: Hi, Rachel.

Rachel: Hello. Can you hear me? All right.

Iman: Yes, yes, we can.

Michele: Yeah, I’ve, I’ve turned off my fan because I didn’t want that to interfere.

Iman: Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

Michele: And how hot is it?

Iman: Yeah. Yeah, it’s hot. But I mean, obviously a good thing is that for the most part, we’re always inside, so it doesn’t really affect all that much, but,

Michele: Well, it’s supposed to be cooler because it’s raining. It is not cooler. It is hot. It is muggy. It is. We haven’t slept, have we, Rachel?

Rachel: Oh my gosh, no. No. Although mine was probably because I had caffeine a bit too late yesterday as too hard. Yeah. Yeah. That was my fault. Um, yeah, I’ve told the boys to be quiet and um. They’re doing all right so far. I’m slightly worried that my video’s just gonna do that thing that it likes to do sometimes where it freezes.

Iman: Oh, okay.

Rachel: If it does that, I will just have to turn it off and back on again, but we’ll just,

Michele: Yeah. ’cause it usually freezes on the most unflattering pictures. 

Iman: Yeah, of course. That’s always the case. Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah.

[01:51] Starting the Meeting 

Iman: Okay. So I just wanted to thank you guys for, for joining, making the time. Obviously I know that both of you have a full busy lives and families and everything to take care of, so I really appreciate it. Um, and I just wanted to give just like a little bit of an intro first before we get started. Then I’ll read both of your guys’ intros and then we will get started with questions.

[02:24] Introducing the Guests 

Um, okay, so this is, my name is Iman, obviously, and this is Beyond the Rough Draft. The series I started while fighting through the chaos of my own romantasy draft. You guys obviously know everything about that. Um, it can feel like such a solo mission, but it doesn’t have to be. So in each episode I’ll be talking to people like you, uh, writers from all stages, how they manage the messy parts of creativity. Uh, because I feel like obviously people who are in our same situation, if they hear something like this, maybe they can find, um. Either adopt, copy, any mantras or rituals that you guys use to help get them unstuck and move forward with their draft.

So I will read a little bit about your bio first, Rachel. So based in the UK, Rachel is a writer currently working on her debut, An NA Speculative novel about the power of dreaming. Her background is in English literature and psychology two areas she hopes to bring into her writing with the focus on mental health, neurodivergence and inclusion. She is a keen reader of SFF, obviously science fiction fantasy. Psychological thriller and romance and when not reading or writing can be found chasing after two children or frolicking at a fantasy themed ball.

And Michelle is a busy lady with six grandchildren, six cats and dreams of seeing her stories in bookshops. And maybe even the big screen. As an ex deputy head teacher, singer, and academic journals contributor, storytelling is the thread that has run through her career. Her academic background is in computing and English language and literature, and she’s on the final edit of her debut novel whilst resuming a second she started 40 years ago. Wow.

So obviously no one knows this, but I will mention this now that both Rachel and Michelle are actually mother and daughter. So I feel like that is an extremely rare dynamic, um, that happens in the creative field. I feel like most of us, like I mentioned before, most of us feel like we’re doing it alone, so. The fact that you two are able to do it together and bounce ideas off of each other and kind of each other’s support system in that aspect, I feel is, is really great. So I feel like when I’m talking, I’m talking to my parents or to my sister about it they kind of get that this glazed look, sometimes.

They don’t understand what it is that I’m talking about.

My mom was telling me, oh, I just watched a movie about a novelist and I thought that all you had to do was just write the damn thing and that was it, you’d be published. I’m like, there’s a little bit more to it than just that.

Rachel: Yeah.

Iman: Yeah, I wish it could be that easy. But yeah, it’s just so much

Michele: Me too.

Iman: So much that goes along with it. So obviously I’m not saying that they’re not supportive, they’re definitely, uh, they definitely are, but it’s just different of course, when you’re going through the same thing. So, um, something else too that obviously the audience is not aware of is that Rachel and I know each other, we have, um. We have a, uh, biweekly meeting that we do to try to help each other, motivate each other to finish our books, and we met at a Jericho Writing Festival last year in London. So, um, yeah, that’s, I feel like that’s a nice, uh, fact to let people know that we’ve been through this journey for a little bit now together.

Rachel: Yeah.

Iman: And yeah, definitely feel like without your encouragement, I still would’ve been stuck on like the first. I’m still stuck, but I would’ve been, I wouldn’t have pushed through as much as I have. So yeah, I really appreciate, appreciate it. So I’ll just get into like the questions now.

[06:12] Rachel’s Writing Journey 

Um, I just wanted to know like between, obviously Rachel in your case, creativity does run in your family growing up because obviously your mother’s also a writer, but, um, Michele in your case, was, was that the same, like, were your parents creative or did they nurture that when you were younger?

Michele: Um, very much so in that, particularly my mother. My Dad was very creative, um, in terms of, um, electrical things and building things he could do, and he then very unusually, actually got into computers. He ended up working for, um, Amstrad and Sugar, um, and helped sort of design the first computer. So he got into computing and was really creative with things to do with wiring. So he had a massive mast in his garden that he could do his radio hand to people all over the world, which was unheard of. You know, he was the first people to have color TV that he would wire up to some magical thing. Um, but my mom, my lovely, lovely, nearly 91-year-old mom is very much at the heart of this. She is so creative. She can turn any piece of material into beautiful clothing. Not so much now with the arthritis, but she always told us stories, and I know Rachel and my other two children will remember. She has a knack of personifying everything, be it a pencil or a sausage in a pan or a bird outside.

And she would tell us all stories, um, throughout our whole life. So, I’m very lucky in that I had her, she’s definitely a massive contributor to both me and Rachel and my other children’s sort of journey.

Iman: Oh, okay. Wow.

So then, I mean, in terms of both of you, obviously Michele with, uh, Rachel growing up, like, um, how did you nurture her creative energy or when was the fir, when was it that you saw that she was really, when did she really come to you telling you that she was interested in writing?

Michele: Well, Rachel being my first. As most first children don’t come with a book that tells you how to deal with them, so you have to kind of work it out.

Iman: Mm-hmm.

Michele: And it didn’t take very long to work out that, Rachel, be careful here ’cause your head might grow a bit. She’s very smart, um, very, very observant and uh, had a very serious side to the world. So when people would lean into her pram to smile, she’d kind of lean back and be thinking about it. Um, and so she would play for hours with little small creatures making up stories and sorts of things and draw. So, I used to spend Saturday mornings would be a drawing I’d get rolls of old wall paper and um, and, and, and even buy cheap ones.

Roll them out on the table and we’d have all sorts of pens and papers and, um, we would sort of draw stories really. So, you know, who, whoever was at that end would draw something on the other end. And then I would set up her toys at night when she went to bed so she’d always wake up in the morning and she’d always tell stories with her little figures and, um, read.

I think that’s one of the key things. If you can read to your children and get into them a love of reading. A lot of it happens in here, um, because I love movies of books, but the books are no match for any of them because it’s all in here. And I think Rachel was like that so young. Um. It was easy to foster ’cause she’s interested in the world.

She’s observant and and loves her loves her books.

Iman: Yeah. Yeah. And what about you, Rachel? Like when was it that you realized that you wanted to write? How long did it take you to actually push yourself to do that? Or were you, did you not have any um, I guess fears in terms of doing that right away?

Rachel: Oh gosh. Um, I don’t know. So, I suppose I made, made up stories a lot when I was little. I remember writing a story when I was in year seven. Um, so I must have been about, I dunno, twelve or thirteen in school. Um, and really getting into it and like filling up half of my, my book in school, which is, was not what we were really meant to do, but I kind of got carried away and really loved it.

I mean, it was kind of based loosely on, um, uh a game called Zelda at the time. Zelda and the Ocarina of Time. And I really liked, um, some creatures in there. So I made up a whole story about someone going into their world. Um, and I loved it. Um, I, I dunno where that is. Um, but that was probably the first full story that I wrote.

And then I think I wrote on and off for, wow. Years, really. Um, and then I did an English literature degree and decided I’d had enough of stories for a while, um, and didn’t read a lot after that. And so, I think it took quite a few years of bits of stories. I still, in fact, even now when I’m sort of clearing out, I’ll find a notebook or sketchbook with jotted down ideas or like the first 10,000 words of something written and think, oh yeah, I remember that, but it’s not been until the last couple of years, I actually sat down and wrote something fully. Um, just ’cause life gets in the way. And I think there’s that feeling of, you know, am I really qualified to do this?

Can I actually write, you know, writers are people over there that, that are kind of, they know that they’re gonna write and they sort of, you know, they’re born thinking, yes, this is for me. Um, and, you know, do it as a first career. Um, I’ve obviously since learned that’s not at all the case. Um, but yeah, I think it took a long time before I felt like I could actually write something in full as an adult.

Iman: Yeah.

[11:55] Michelle’s Writing Journey 

And so then Michelle, were you already, um, writing when you had Rachel, or did you start writing a lot later?

Michele: Yeah, I, I started writing really, really young. There was a, a movie that, that you may or may not know and, and listeners may or may not know, called Rosemary’s Baby, which is quite scary.

And I remember being completely unsatisfied with the end, so I had my little typewriter that my mom and dad had bought me, and I typed my own rewrite of the end and what happened next because I wasn’t satisfied. I even remember in, in sort of, oh, I dunno how old I must’ve been, six, seven. I remember in school writing a story that the teacher particularly loved and decided to read it out.

So I’d always done it for fun. I liked writing for fun. And then, um. As Rachel said, life does get in the way and, and on on the, you have to go to work and you have to do things and, and we didn’t have technology to help us then, and we didn’t have, uh, we used to cook a lot more and do a lot more things so time was very short, but I used to write, uh, about being pregnant and my, um, birth stories, and Rachel is my oldest of three. Um, I was pregnant for five years running and had three children in three years, so I had a lot to write about. And so, I had some things, uh, included in National Childbirth Trust Magazine

So, I decided to do some writing and submit, um, things like jokes, um, some of which were adopted because I do quite like humor.

Iman: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Wow.

[13:33] Family Influence on Creativity 

So then Rachel, like seeing your, your mom already doing this type of thing. Do you think that that helped you maybe move forward in that same path or,

Rachel: Yeah, I think so. I think because, um, because storytelling’s always been such a big part of our family, so my nan’s always told stories I think as well. When we were little, mom used to record stories for us to listen to when we went sleep as well. So, we’d hear her stories and there’d always be a, okay, I finished the story, now it’s time to go to bed. If you would like one more, you know, here’s another one. And there’d be another story and we’d just sit and listen to them like half the night. Um, so I think telling stories and writing stories, that has always been there.

And I think when you see someone do that, it feels more accessible. Um, so yeah, absolutely. I think, um, there’s a lot of writing and storytelling and art as well in our family. Um, and because we just did that a lot since we were little, um, yeah, it felt, it felt more accessible.

Iman: And do you both like bounce off ideas also maybe like with, obviously Rachel, your grandmother in your case and Michele, your mom, or.

Michele: Definitely, definitely. I mean, um, it’s thanks to Rachel that I’ve kind of got off my backside and started getting serious about finishing all the stories that were started and I mean, there are a lot that I’ve sort of started a lot of ideas scribbled down in various notebooks or whatever, and it was only when Rachel thought, I’m gonna have a go at this. I thought, why have I left it this long? Why have I done that? I, I’d kind of got, I’d kind of gone sideways by writing in some academic journals, um, being a teacher. And it was actually when I did my Masters of teaching, I was approached by one of the lecturers who asked if I would write something with him.

Um, and then approached by somebody, um, about the use of computing and IT, and lessons. So, I kind of got sidelined a little bit and, and did some published work there, but all the time are these ideas that I’ve shared with Rachel and, and the other two, um, about comedy I like, I like comedy and I like to write about comedy.

Um, so it has always been around, but I have to say is thanks to Rachel sort of knuckling down that I’ve got myself into gear really.

Iman: Well, yeah, that’s good. I mean, that’s why I feel like having this dynamic definitely can help inspire each other to move forward. Yeah.

Michele: Definitely.

Rachel: Yeah, and I think as well, so I guess it’s not just us.

So you have shared, you know, your novel at the moment with, with Nan. Um, and she’s read things like my, when we did short, uh, flash fiction competition, we sent that to her, so she’s looked at those. Um, but also my sister and sister-in-law as well. So, they’ll Beta read. Um, so, um, and my cousin as well has Beta read yours.

Um, and so yeah, I think we kind of as a family bounce off each other and share ideas. I often find if I have an idea for a story in order to get a plot sorted in my head, I just need to tell someone I need to just sort of like get it all out in one go. And that. I’m not, I’ll normally do that to mom.

Michele: Or a good example though is it was my birthday recently, and we, we shared a takeaway round at my daughter-in-law’s house and there was Rachel, my daughter-in-law, my other daughter, and we spent the whole time talking about what we’d written, books so on, and Rachel’s, uh, latest idea.

We talked it all through, at the table. We all chipped in about what we thought. Fabulous. Absolutely fabulous.

Rachel: Yeah. It’s like it ends up being like a workshop, so it’s, uh, yeah, really nice.

Iman: Yeah. And a free workshop too.

Rachel: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and we, people read that kind of genre, so it’s really nice.

Iman: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

[17:31] Facing Writing Fears 

Um, what is it about writing that scares you both the most and how do you face it, whether it’s individually or together?

Michele: I think we do face things together because I will, I will speak to Rachel and say, oh, it’s rubbish. What I’ve written is rubbish or no one’s ever gonna want to read this. And Rachel has done similar to me.

However, we’ve been very lucky that we’ve both been, not been in that same place at the same time. So, we’ve been able to encourage each other, and actually, I think the scariest thing for me is that nobody will want to read it really.

That that how awful that you’ve spent so much of yourself and time and energy and people aren’t interested makes me feel quite sad just saying it.

Rachel: It won’t be the case. It won’t be the case. I mean, I think that I would be right of worries about isn’t it, that you know, no one’s gonna really understand it or they’ll misinterpret it or think what you’ve written about is somehow some something deeper meaningful about you in a certain way that it’s not, um, or it would, yeah, it would just get misunderstood, really.

Um, and yeah, I think that’s, that’s tricky. I think the other thing that I find difficult I suppose it’s more of a challenge than a fear, but is the, when you are writing and editing, there seem, it seems like there are infinite possibilities of how you can write that chapter or that scene or that sentence and that thought of, have I picked the right one?

You know, have I said that in the way that expresses the thing that I have in my head. Um, have I put it on the page in the right way? And are other people gonna be able to interpret that? Because obviously, you know, we can’t know. We can only see it from our perspectives. Um, so I think that’s one of the things that I find quite difficult.

Um, yeah.

Iman: Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately most of, most of creatives, I feel like their biggest fear is that no one will like their work.

Michele: Yeah.

Iman: Yeah.

Rachel: Mm.

Iman: And how is it that you, um, try to move past that fear? So, you basically just talk to each other about it. You reassure each other

Michele: Yes.

Iman: That you’re going on the right track?

Michele: Yeah. I call Rachel, um, I, I or I turn up randomly at her house, which I do quite frequently. Um, and I just say, oh, I just, oh. Or actually Rachel has noticed that I haven’t been writing. And we’ll say, have you done any writing? Oh no, I haven’t done any today, and then I’ll spill the, oh, I just think it’s awful and I dunno how to move from A to B and, and there’s always, there is a something in talking it through with each other I find.

Rachel: Mm-hmm.

Michele: Do you think so, Rachel?

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. I think chatting through, and I think Iman, we found this as well in our, in our kind of working groups as well, that just having someone else to bounce ideas off of or, you know, we’ll sometimes say, you know, could we do something this way or could we do it that way?

Or we’ll say, I’m worried about this, and then we’ll end up saying to each other, actually, no, that sounds great. That sounds fine. And it’s just that little bit of reassurance. Um, I think the other thing that I find really helps is just reading, um, and particularly listening to stories. So, I think because maybe because we’ve got so much of that storytelling, I guess from Nan telling the stories a lot as well as reading. I really like to, I like to read physical books, um, and I like to read on Kindle as well, but I really like to hear them. Um, there’s something about having someone tell you the story. Um, and then for me, it kind of helps me imagine telling myself the story, if that makes sense.

Iman: Yeah.

Rachel: Um, and, uh, or, or imagine a, you know, a narrator that you particularly like telling you your own story. I find that really helpful to, to get back in the swing of things, um, or, or just being somewhere different. I find that really helpful as well. Or I space, it kind of helps me get out of my own head.

Um. So getting

Michele: That’s very true actually, because we’ve talked about this before, haven’t we? About writing outside the house and um, obviously Iman, you mentioned Jericho writers. We’ve found that having people like yourself, having a community of people who get it, is hugely important. And but thinking back to what you were saying, Rachel, about being in a different space.

I, um, recently was due to go on a cruise with, with my friend, and, um, day before we were due to go, she got poorly and couldn’t go. So I went on my own and thought, okay, I’m gonna treat this like a writing retreat. So, I moved around the ship everywhere with my laptop and my headphones so I could just get in.

I did not get a lot of editing done because everyone was so lovely and stopped with a, oh, you on your own, do you wanna, you know, come sit with us or whatever. But being near seeing the sea and being relaxed and having enough sleep and letting somebody else do the cooking and just provide this food got me in such a space that I came up with a whole new idea for a book and Rachel knew it was coming throughout the week it sort of developed. Um, and I also found myself lots of beta readers who were like, oh, what are you writing? Oh, that sounds interesting. It, I think it’s, it’s incredible to have a, different spaces b, get in the relaxing space and c, your community.

Iman: Yeah. So did a lot of these beta, beta writers. Yeah, I was gonna say, I, I pronounce it differently. Um, did a lot of them come through?

Michele: Uh, they’re doing it now. They’re doing it right now.

Iman: Oh yeah?

Michele: Yeah.

Iman: Wow. Yeah. That’s great. Wow.

[23:22] Finding Inspiration and Overcoming Blocks 

So then when it comes to like trying to move forward with any, um, when you’re stuck or anything like that, that’s, those are basically the mantras or rituals that you guys have adopted, maybe going somewhere else, speaking to people about it.

Rachel: Yeah, I think going to, um, conferences or going to author panels, so hearing other writers talk, um, as well. I think just being generally near like-minded people and, um, hearing them talk about their ideas is Inspirational. It doesn’t necessarily move my idea forward in that I’m not having a conversation with them about my idea, but I think it just, it kind of gets the creative juices flowing a bit and it gets you feeling ready to move forward. Um, so yeah, I mean, like we said, we, you know, we’ve all been to Jericho Festival. We went again this year and I’m now kind of on the lookout for lots of different conferences and I’m kind of, of the mindset actually, the more that I say yes to, the more I can go to the, you know, the more helpful it will be because, it’s just, it’s, I think just being around people that love writing and love reading just helps you get in that head space.

Iman: Yeah

Michele: And on a practical note, you, you don’t have to actually go out if you don’t want to. And I’m, I’m thinking of a lovely editor we met who, um, is, um, confined to a, a mobile scooter most of the time.

And you know, if you are in that position or you are, like I was, I had three very young children couldn’t go out. We are lucky that there’s so much online now and there’s so much free stuff you can access. You don’t have to spend a fortune. You can buy writing courses and all sorts, but you know, a, for the communities, and b, just for listening to other people, there are podcasts and there are all sorts out there, and it just, as Rachel says, gets you going. I mean, there have been days when I’ve thought, oh, I could never write like that, but of course you can’t. That’s not you. Um, but yeah, you don’t have to spend any money. You don’t have to actually go anywhere, although obviously it works for me. Um, just, just get creative, go looking online.

Iman: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

[25:28] Balancing Writing with Family Life 

And I mean, both of you, obviously, like I mentioned before, have your families, you have kids. So, I mean, what would you say to like the mothers who want to write but feel like they don’t have the time to write or they’re, they have too much going on?

Rachel: Yeah, so I guess, um, I know a lot of people really like to set goals of like a 1000 words a day or 500 words a day. I think it, if it works for you, it works for you. If, if it means you’re gonna end up feeling like you failed, if you don’t reach that target, then maybe it’s not a helpful thing. Um, I found that, uh, the notes app on my phone is my friend. So if I’m somewhere and you know, I’m putting fish fingers in the oven or I’m, you know, on my way to work or something like that, if I’ve got an idea, I can jot it down quickly and then I can know that it’s somewhere safe and I can come back to it later.

Um, I think also. You know, there’s a lot of advice out there that says you are not writing the book unless you’re sat down writing the book. But also, for all of that, there’s a lot of advice that says, writing doesn’t always mean words on the page. It can be thinking about your characters, imagining a scene.

You know, if you can’t get in front of your laptop or computer or whatever it is, you can still be forwarding the story, like advancing it by thinking through dialogue or you know, looking at a new place and thinking, oh, that might be a, a nice location for my next scene, or, hey, that conversation I just overheard, sparked something for the character dialogue that I want to move on.

So I think it’s just about finding a rhythm that works for you and just grabbing bits of time where you can, that’s, that’s what I found anyway.

Michele: Oh, you are absolutely right. And. It does depend on you and you have to try things to know if they work or not. But, um, you know, the notes app on your phone or whatever is your friend but so are notebooks. I mean, I, this, this, um, novel that I’ve resurrected after 40 years. I have got written notes on that. I’ve even got, um, a back of an envelope where I started writing something when I was out once. I’ve still kept that from a long time ago. And then, you know, I, I find a nice fresh notes notebook and a nice pen will often get me writing, but then it stops.

So I think use everything. Use everything. You can use notebooks, um, use bits of paper, use notes use voice to text. Speech to text is so underrated. Um, but you get ideas at any time and you will find, everybody says this. I certainly get this from comedy writers who suddenly see something and it pings an idea and you have to get it down because if you don’t, you never quite remember it, you know, as you think it was.

[28:12] Inspiration from Everyday Life 

And I think because we, we both work with people, working with other people and seeing other people often makes you think, oh, what if the classic question. And I was, I was picking up one of my grandchildren in, in school and I was looking at this lovely, lovely old lady. She was just so lovely. I say that and I’m quite old, but lovely old lady and she was so sweet, and I thought, wouldn’t it be interesting if she went around killing people?

People asked her to because they were horrible. And I was stood in the playground getting this whole idea in my head thinking I need to write this down somewhere. So thinking time is also hugely important.

[28:51] Creative Collaboration and Brainstorming 

Plus, plus, as Rachel has said, we are quite arty. So, um, we have had, we do have creative days, so that will be Rachel and my other daughter and my daughter-in-law.

And, uh, my daughter-in-law may sit and sew something and my my daughter, who’s an artist will probably draw something or say something and I will be there with bits of paper drawing out characters and linking up on a diagram, and Rachel will be doing the same. So whatever works for you is right.

Rachel: Mm.

Iman: Yeah, makes sense.

And yeah, I mean, I’ve heard that too, where people say, you know that only if you’re writing it means that you are actually writing. And that’s not the case. At least not with like, um, meetups and, uh, writing sessions that I’ve had. They always say also in the beginning, you know. Brainstorming, outlining, thinking of things up in your head.

I mean, um, trying to even brainstorm, just like you said, um, without writing anything down is also part of the writing process.

Michele: Hmm.

Iman: But yeah, just obviously eventually you write it down because otherwise

Rachel: Yeah.

Iman: You can’t just have it all in your head all the time, so, yeah.

Michele: No, you can’t.

Iman and Rachel: Yeah.

[30:03] The Writing Process: Good and Bad Days 

Iman: Um, what does the writing process look for both of you like on your good and bad days?

Rachel: Oh, okay. Um, uh, a good day would be I’m, I wake up and I’m really in the story. So I wake up thinking about a scene and I think, great, I’ve figured out a problem to whatever plot hole or whatever issue I was having the day before. And I’ll get up and I’ll sit down and I’ll, I’ll be able to write, and I’ll write a few 1000 words.

Obviously that’s assuming I’m not at work, no one else needs me at the time, you know, I don’t get distracted by chores. Um, all of those kind of things. Um, and, and, and then I’ll feel like I’ve made some progress, whether I go back the next day and change or is another matter. I’ve, I’ve kind of done some, um, a bad writing day I think will be, um.

Uh, a day where maybe I feel uninspired, or I feel a bit stuck. Um, and then added to that there are too many other responsibilities and things that are happening that mean that I don’t have time to sit and work it through in my head. So, I know that I’m stuck and I also know that I don’t have time to move on from it.

Um, so either I’ll do no writing or I’ll do a small amount and it’s kind of like in pieces and I’m sort of doing a sentence here and there and I go back and look at it and think it just doesn’t hold together. Um, and why did I bother with the time that I had? Um, yeah. So, I think it really varies for me.

Iman: Yeah,

Michele: It, it, it, you are so right and I think a good day you just know that something has worked or you’ve moved something forward and you have to acknowledge that even thinking through something is moving it forward. A, a bad day, well, I think, I think it’s when Rachel FaceTimes me and I’m sat here is a good day, and if she FaceTimes me and I’m sat in front of a TV in the other room, it’s a not very good day.

Um, I just, I just find it very difficult some days to to get into that mode, you know, you’ve been to work, um, I dunno, the washing machine’s broken down. Um, you’ve got a letter asking you for some money for a bill. You’ve paid all these other life things that need sorting out and I sometimes just cannot put them over there to get to writing.

I think sometimes you just have to acknowledge, I I’m not gonna get much done today. So, I console myself with her. But actually, not doing it today means I’ll be fresher tomorrow. So, I’m always trying to put a positive spin on the bad days because you, you’re gonna have them.

Iman: Mm, yeah. Yeah, that’s true. Do you feel like you both have more good days than bad or good way around?

Rachel: Uh, I mean, I would say I, I would say I have more good days than bad.

Michele: Yeah.

Rachel: I would say, again, a, a bad day can be turned into a good day if you’re talking to other writers.

Michele: Yeah.

Rachel: I think that, you know, one of the things that we were told quite early on was the Find your Tribe, and I think I really underestimated how important that is.

Um, and how nice it is to have other people to talk to. And I think you can feel really stuck and speak to someone and then, you know, not necessarily write anything, but somehow move it on in your head and then it feels productive again. Um, so yeah, I, yeah, I would say I have more good days, but probably because I rely, you know, on other people, like both of you to kind of help move on if I’m feeling a bit stuck.

Iman: Yeah.

Michele: Yeah, I would say more good days than bad days because even, even on a bad day, I’m thinking I haven’t written anything. I haven’t finished that scene, or I haven’t wr written that. So that’s kind of a good day. So yeah, definitely more good days.

Iman: Yeah. And I also kind of feel like sometimes good days and bad days are subjective, right?

You know, someone thinks that bad day is really bad because instead of writing like what we were saying, Rachel, instead of writing maybe 500 words, they only wrote 200. Um, in reality, that can be a good day because at least you’re 200 words further than you were before.

Rachel: Yeah. And those 200 could be a 200 that, that sticks throughout all of your drafts.

You know, you might change loads of other things, but you spent so much time on those 200 that actually they endure and they, they just really work. I can find that sometimes I’ll write paragraphs and paragraphs, and then I’ll go back to I and think, oh, actually, I, I didn’t need this entire scene. I can kind of summarize this as that happened yesterday in a few sentences.

Um, and then that’s, you know, thousands, couple of thousands of words gone. Or I’ll have something where I’ve written a sentence and then it stays from draft one. Um, and you just, I, I guess you don’t know what those. What those days are gonna be. Which ones are the ones where you have the work that stays and the work that you, you rehash, but you know, any, any progress is progress.

Iman: Yeah. Yeah.

Michele: I think, I think between us, we’ve just kind of worked out that there aren’t any bad days. They’re just days where we don’t necessarily measure in the ways we’d like to.

Iman: Mm-hmm.

Michele: So maybe we’ve just invented a new, a new way forward.

Iman: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because also, I mean, you could also feel like maybe you’re having a really good thing, like, Hey, I’m inspired, I’m writing all this, and then you read and you’re like, it, this is crap.

Rachel: Yeah, it happens. It really happens. Yeah, absolutely.

Michele: I did, I recently, I wrote this lovely thing and I thought, you know what? This has no value at all, and it was gone.

Iman: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it can definitely be really subjective. Just because you think you might have had a bad day doesn’t necessarily mean that’s actually the case, so, yeah.

[35:24] Overcoming the Inner Critic 

Um, how do you guys quiet the inner critic? Or maybe not quiet ’cause I don’t think that’s possible, but try to, uh, maybe l not live with it, but move past it. Kind of keep it there, obviously there with you, but kind of, um, be able to kind of, uh, write over that, that obstacle, that internal obstacle.

Michele: I think it’s what you were saying, Rachel, about find your tribe.

[35:54] The Importance of Writing Communities 

I think, you know, you need to find your own ways, your support systems, and you know, we, we do rely on each other and, and family for that. There’s no doubt. But, we’ve also got, um, uh, as well as, um, I know Rachel speaks to you regularly. We’ve also got another little band that we met in Jericho, um, not this year, the year before.

Who are ladies uh, more my age. Rachel was the youngest group and we just help each other by letting each other know how we’re doing, what’s going on. And there is such wisdom in the group. You know, there we’re women from very different places in terms of not just geographically, which is the case, but in terms of life commitments and writings styles and genres, and what we are doing and where we are. And literally just talking to them can make me think, Yeah, it’s okay. I can do this. You know, everybody else is having the same problem. Do you think Rachel?

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, I think you’re right, Iman, that you, you never get rid of that inner critic, and I don’t know that you always want to, because I think that’s sometimes what pushes you to go actually, is this as good as I can make it? Um, we had a very interesting talk, I think it was Ruth Ware, uh, spoken.

Michele: Yes.

Rachel: And she was saying, actually, I, you know, would I want it to go possibly not, because it helps me be a better writer. It kind of challenges me to say, is this the best that I can make it? If not, let me push it further, and, and I think that’s a really valid point.

Michele: Yeah. Um,

Rachel: Um, so I think being able to learn to live with it, listen to it when you can, don’t let it stop you altogether. Um, but I think just remembering that all writers have had it, and you know it, like you said at the start, writing can feel really lonely. I think even when you know other writers, even when you’re related to other writers, when you are in it, um, you know your story is yours, um, and, it can feel like a lonely process, but every, every other writer has been there and every other writer has had that moment where they’ve kind of completely doubted their story or, you know, maybe it’s just a chapter or a paragraph or a sentence, but that self-doubt is I think, just a part of writing, which is

Iman: Mm-hmm.

Rachel: Tricky in an industry where there are lots of rejections and lots of waiting, uh, you know, and lots of, uh, lots of gray areas.

[38:18] Motivations Behind Writing 

Um, but yeah, and I think also remembering why you are writing in the first place. You know, are you doing it because you have a message that you really want to get out into the world, or are you doing it because you just love it and it would feel wrong not to write, you know, are you doing it? Um, you know, I guess whatever reason it is, maybe it’s a combination of those, maybe it’s something else. Um, but I guess going back to that motivation, um, that I find for me sometimes then can outshine that little, that voice that’s like, oh, actually is this good enough? Can you do this? Are you sure this is for you?

Um, yeah.

Iman: Do you have that? On um, because I remember when I was first trying to figure out, you know, how I could move forward and get past the, uh, inner critic and that internal obstacle that we all have. Um, I saw somewhere where they said that you should, right in front of you, wherever it is that you do your writing, put why you’re doing it.

Like maybe write a post-it notes or put it on the whatever bulletin board that you might have hanging up and put why the reason exactly the exact reason why you’re writing? Like do you guys, do you do that or do you have something like that?

Michele: I, I, I don’t have anything written, but I know, I know why I’ve written the book that’s, that’s done now. Um, and I, I wrote that because I needed to write down, in a sort of cathartic way and a sort of support way for me how awful it was to watch my dad, who is was so smart, watch him die of dementia and watch people who I thought were experts in his nursing home who weren’t and it was so traumatic in the sense, and you know it’s coming and you know, they can’t do anything about it.

But the whole thing was just so, um, unexpected. The feelings. I just had to get it down. Uh, it’s sort of a tribute to him. But also, once I’d realized it’s a tribute to him, I thought, there are so many other people that need to know this. There are so many other people that need to understand. Um, so I’ve, I’ve, that is really firm. With my novel I started 40 years ago, I think there is gonna be a similar message that, that a about that, um, it, it’s very different. Um, but it, there is a message there and it is about dealing with your own thoughts. It, the characters are not me. And, and as Rachel has said before, people sometimes think that everything you write is you.

Um, and you do draw on things. But I think because I’ve got that strong feeling inside, I know why I’m doing it. I, I don’t need to write it down. It, I know it, I do. Have you written it, Rachel? Anywhere?

Rachel: Um, so I’ve not written that. I do have, you probably can’t see, but I do have a sort of, that more has kind of, I guess, themes for that particular book that’s on there.

Um, and those link to, I suppose sometimes it’ll be messages that I wanna get across. Um, for me, I suppose there is that, just knowing that now I’ve kind of refound writing and, and, I got back into it as an adult, I can’t imagine not doing it. Um, so I feel like that’s just always gonna be a driving force.

Um, but I think the other thing is being able to write and share your writing is, is actually a, a real privilege, um, whatever form that takes. Um, being able to feel, um, safe enough to have the capacity to have the time to write stuff down and share it with others, um, it is a really brilliant thing and I think, um, sharing, writing and, and thoughts is, can be really powerful. You know, like we all know lots of examples of books that kind of change the world and, um, how much kind of trends, um, can come about. Um, you know, if you think about romantasy and things, how, how, how much a few select books change the reading taste of like, you know, hundreds and thousands of millions of people.

Um, but I think that’s a really, a really powerful thing, um, and a really brilliant thing to be able to do for anyone that does it. Whether your read your readership is, is big or small, you know, whatever that looks like. Um, so I think that’s quite a nice driving force, just knowing that actually being able to do it in the first place is quite a privileged thing.

Iman: Yeah, that’s true.

Michele: It’s also a vulnerable thing, I think. I think it, you know, it, it is, I think people forget that it is quite vulnerable. People are looking and criticizing and, um, yeah. So, yeah. Powerful. Yes. Vulnerable too, I think.

Rachel: Yeah.

Iman: Mm-hmm.

Rachel: Yeah. It takes a degree of bravery, I think, um, to share stuff. Um.

I think even, I know we’ve been doing it for a few years now, but even when you sort of hand something over to someone to read, it’s kind of like this to read it, but I also don’t want you to read it.

Iman: Yeah,

Rachel: Yeah. I dunno that that will ever go away. I, I often hear other, uh, authors kind of talking who are much further down the line, like decades and decades in with lots of published books and they seem to feel equally as awkward and squeamish about sharing network work for the first time. So I think it’s just part of writing.

Iman: Yeah. What is it that they say? It’s basically like sending your child out into the world, so, yeah. Yeah,

Rachel: Yeah. Absolutely.

Michele: Yeah.

Iman: Um, have you ever, have either of you ever considered giving up writing, and what was it that pulled you back to it?

Michele: I mean, I never thought, I’m not going to write again. I didn’t write for a few years because I had babies to look after. I was single mom. I had things to do and, and it was just very hard. But I don’t think I have ever thought I’m not gonna write. And I think it, it’s just, as I say, you know, Rachel’s a big part in pulling me back into just do it.

Um, but I don’t think I’ve ever thought I won’t ever write again.

Rachel: Yeah. I don’t think I’ve ever thought of giving it up forever. I think. You know, the idea of being able to pursue it as a career, um, which is obviously what I’m kind of aspiring to, is something that maybe a decade or so ago I felt wasn’t, didn’t feel very feasible, you know, when, when you are kind of just outta university or just into kind of the workplace and thinking about things like finding somewhere to live and paying bills and all of those kind of things. The idea of trying to rely on or make a living through writing to me felt like, like it was something that I couldn’t achieve.

Um, and I, I think I didn’t have confidence in my ability to do it or the stability, I guess, of, of the whole writing and publishing world to be able to make a living to do it. Um, but I think, um, so, so I think I kind of parked it for a really long time. Um, but I think getting a little bit older, just realizing that it’s something that I love, I can’t imagine not doing it whether I ever make any money from it or not, um, it’s just something that I love to do. So, I, I can’t, I don’t think, since rediscovering it, I’ve had the thought of, um I don’t wanna do it anymore. But I guess then that’s, that’s a request to you, Iman, is if I come into the writing group and say, I’m gonna give it up just remind me of this.

Iman: What did you say when we were doing the recording? You said No.

Rachel: Never. Never. Yeah,

Iman: Exactly.

[45:53] Writing Strengths and Challenges 

What are your, um, what do you think are your writing strengths and where do you still feel challenged in your writing process?

Michele: That’s so interesting. I, I am an underwriter, not in terms of insurance, uh, when they underwrite things, but I, I, I wr get to the point quite quickly.

Um, which is a strength and a weakness, but I think my biggest strength is probably writing dialogue. I have always seen and heard things, and I think that probably goes back to the fact that I really, um I, in my head, everything I’m writing is on TV or a screen. I can see people, I can hear people having worked with people all my life.

Um, and so I think dialogue is my biggest strength and my underwriting is a bit of a weakness. You are very different, aren’t you, Rachel?

Rachel: Yes. So, I think, um, I guess because my background’s, you know, psychology and sort of emotional mental health, I think being able to imagine what a character’s going through is something that I really enjoy and I’ll give a lot of attention to because I really enjoy it.

Um, but then I’ll have a tendency to overwrite, um, and really get into a character’s head and that then I find dialogue more challenging and that kind of um, really interesting and fun to play with, um, tension between everything that’s going on inside and then what is said on the outside. Um, so whereas I think mom, you tend to have kind of, uh, smaller drafts first time round.

I tend to have huge drafts first time round, and then we’re kind of working in the opposite. You are, you are kind of filling yours up and I’m, I’m cutting mine down. Um, so yeah, I think, yeah, definitely being able to whittle down what I want to say into something a bit punchier. Um, that takes some time for me.

Iman: Yeah. Yeah. I felt like in the beginning when I first started writing, I was like, your mom, Michele. You know, I was, I would underwrite, but I feel like dialogue is always one of my biggest, biggest strengths. But then when I was being told in the very beginning of the process that I needed to write more, dialogue I feel for me is still pretty good, but now I feel like I’m writing too much. I’m like, what’s going on?

Rachel: So, it’s so hard, isn’t it? You swing one way and another.

Iman: Mm-hmm.

Rachel: It’s, uh, it’s tricky.

Iman: Yeah. Uh, what has surprised you both most about the writing?

[48:24] The Journey of Writing Across Generations 

Journey. Um, especially maybe seeing it unfold across generations between the two of you.

Michele: It’s so hard.

I mean, you said very early on, Iman, about just write the damn thing. And that’s what I used to do, I used to just get an idea and I used to just write it, uh, type it out my little typewriter when I was younger and then thankfully we’ve got computers, but I have handwritten stuff and just spit it all out and get it all out and then think, hang on a minute, there’s, there’s, there’s no real hook in the first 500 words. And why? Why, why do I need to know this here and where is this going and where does this loose end tie up and hang on a minute, um, do I need that person to say that? It is really a difficult thing to do.

Editing is really hard. You have to kind of step away and I think learning that there is so much to it. You know, you have to be in the head of every character. You need to understand what’s going on in the setting. Um, and it, it’s, it’s not an easy thing to do.

Rachel: Mm-hmm.

Michele: Rachel, what, what do you think?

Rachel: Yeah, so, yeah, so I really agree with that. I think also I think I had, and it’s probably my perfectionist tendencies, but this idea that if your idea for a story was really good, you know, your first draft would be amazing because, because the idea is so good, it would naturally, if the, if the book itself is good enough, it would come out you know, shining and it would, it would be in a, a close to polish state, um, since redrafting, a lot of times, a lot, a lot, a lot of times. Um, I realized actually I can kind of keep the idea, but chopping and changing and rewriting a lot doesn’t mean that that original idea was a bad idea. It just means that it took a lot of time and it’s taking time to kind of polish and refine. It’s like sort of chipping away at a marble statue idea, isn’t it? It’s, you know, you start with a chunk of rock and that is okay, it’s gonna take time to make it the thing that needs to be. Um, yeah. And so I think that maybe stalled me a bit in the process that I thought actually, if I’m having to re-edit and change this and redraft, does that just mean this isn’t, you know, this is a no go for this or not, but actually I think I’ve learned hearing other writers talk about the process that’s not the case at all. Actually, redrafting is a huge part of it, and that is normal. And that doesn’t mean the idea’s bad.

Um, I think the other thing is. Uh, you know, we’ve said it, we’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. People, you know, you’re writing

Michele: Yeah.

Rachel: Or your, I think I underestimated how important knowing other writers is, um, for the process and helping each other out, but also just general writer wellbeing. Um,

Iman: Yeah.

Rachel: And feeling good about what you are doing and not feeling alone. Um, and you know, like we said, obviously we have that within our family, but I think it’s, it’s really important to have it broadly and really nice to speak to other people in your genre and different genres. Um, that I think the importance of that is, is way more than I ever expected. Um, yeah.

Iman: Yeah. Yeah. I mean all, well, I was gonna say all three of us, but I’m interviewing you guys. Um, I know that, I know that, um, both of you are working still on books. You don’t have anything self-published or out there in, in the moment at the moment, but I know you obviously will very soon. So in terms of that, um.

[51:51] Current Writing Projects and Future Plans 

Is there something in terms of what you are working on now that you want to share with us? Like what is the latest project that you’re working on? Can you give us some information on that?

Michele: Always. Um, so the one I’ve sort of alluded to is, um Book club women’s fiction, very bittersweet with a, a, a, a moral dilemma.

A very morally complex family dilemma of assisted dying, but with dark comedy. Um, and, uh, as I say, beta reader feedback is very good. I will be querying in the next few days I’ve already spoken to, uh, an agent who, um, is happy to hear from me. Um, and I was invited last year actually to, to submit the full manuscript, but I hadn’t finished it at the time, so I’m pleased to say that’s finished.

And, and cheekily the other one that I’ve dug out from, um, 40 years is another black comedy um, set in 1985 before body positivity has hit the masses. The sort of Sweeney Todd meets Bridget Jones is coming soon too.

Rachel: Yeah, so I am, I’m querying the new adult speculative dark academia. Um, so in the query trenches and trying to distract myself as much as possible, which is why I’m working on a second dark academia novel, which is, I suppose is more sort of paranormal. Um, but again, in that speculative new adult space. Um, yes, that’s, that’s helping me get through the waiting of querying, which has anyone who’s queried knows is very stressful.

Michele: But that novel that Rachel’s written is really good.

Rachel: You have to say that.

Michele: I don’t, I could have, I could have moved on to something else.

Rachel: You do. You do.

Iman: Yeah, I was gonna say, I’m sure it is. Obviously, I read the, the one that she has changed now, the um,

Michele: Yeah, it is very different.

Iman: Broken Dreamer one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The architect ones. Uh, but yeah, I told her I was, I was jealous of her writing chops. I was like, damn, I feel like I would have to get maybe five or six edits just to get to the level that she did.

I’m sure was very few edits. So, yeah. But that’s something else that all creatives do. We need to stop comparing ourselves to other people.

Michele: We, we do, but we never will. We never will because

Iman: That’s true.

Michele: We, we have to, in, in order to make sense of something, we have to judge it and put in it in a little compartment in our head.

And so we will never stop comparing. And I don’t think we, I don’t think we can. I think we’ll always do it. But we need to just switch it into that positive mode because sometimes you could admire somebody’s writing and think, actually that wouldn’t work. I mean, honestly, if Rachel wrote the book I’ve just written, and vice versa, we could not use as writing styles that we have, and actually, Rachel, you’ve missed the opportunity to say that my book is good too. That should have come a bit sooner.

Rachel: I, I was, I was, I was coming with that. Of course. It’s amazing. Of course it is. But I have to say that No, no. It is amazing. Um, yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah. Yes, it is. Um,

Michele: Just appreciate, just appreciate other authors for what they’ve done.

Rachel: Yeah.

Michele: And, and, and know that they were where you are and you might be where they are. And just appreciate the fact that we are all so different. I mean, I have no idea why I like killing people in a funny way in books. I have no idea. Uh. I just don’t know, but it makes me laugh and I like to laugh and that’s just my thing.

I thankfully, Rachel, if Rachel had written something similar, people might look at our family and worry just a little bit, but it hasn’t happened. Um, that doesn’t mean you can’t kill anyone in your books, Rachel, but, um, it, it’s, you know, it’s, I have to say is fantastic to have her to be able to rant at, or more often than not, we’ve come through, uh, you know, I’ve said, how about this? And we’ve ended up giggling at all the ways that how can kill people or things that can happen and, you know, somewhere in the book. And it, it’s, it is brilliant.

[56:13] Supporting Fellow Writers 

Rachel: Yeah, I think it’s nice as well, just that like with writing groups as well, just sharing each other’s successes. So, I, I know that when you know mom gets a, an agent and a book deal, I think I’m probably gonna be as excited as you are and vice versa.

I think it’s just, you know, in the same Iman for us in our, in our group. I think there’s just, when you kind of build up that, that network of people, you, you share those successes together and it’s just such a nice thing. Um,

Iman and Rachel: Yeah,

Michele: I know, but I’m your mom, so, when you were, when you were just invited to send off a manuscript and you were excited, I had to be all cool and calm and you know, there are ways you have to behave as a mother because you are coming to, you know, there’s a role.

Rachel: Of course, of course. But no, I think, yeah, I think the other thing I’ve seen a lot of is writers helping out, other writers, you know, and we’ve had as well, obviously Iman, you beta read mine and, and we’ve kind of, you know, in our writing group, we help each other and, you know, those are things that obviously we will do for each other for free, um, just because we want to help each other. And I think that’s part of that sharing success, um.

Michele: And are, aren’t other writers fabulous?

Rachel: Yes.

Michele: You know, other writers that we’ve met are fabulous. I remember, you know, that, that idea that if I tell somebody something, they might use it. Forget that everything’s kind of been done.

Just share and be as helpful and open as you can because you get it back. Uh, writers are fantastic people.

Iman: Yeah, yeah, there really are.

[57:41] Final Thoughts and Encouragement 

But yeah, I mean, thanks so much guys for making the time and for coming on here, Michele and Rachel, and uh, thanks everyone else for tuning in. Just wanted to say, obviously every writing journey has its own rough patches and your story might be the one that someone else needs to hear.

So everyone just needs to keep showing up for your draft and for yourself. And that’s me included. So yeah, thank you so much.

Rachel: Thank you very much for having us.

Iman: You’re welcome. Speak soon. Bye.

FEATURED GUEST: RACHEL MCLAUGHLIN 

Based in the UK, Rachel is a writer currently working on her debut; a YA speculative novel about the power of dreaming. Her background is in English Literature and Psychology; two areas she hopes to bring into her writing, with a focus on mental health, neurodivergence and inclusion. She’s a keen reader of SFF, psychological thriller and romance, and when not reading or writing, can be found chasing after her two children or frolicking at a fantasy themed ball.  

Connect with Rachel:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rachel_j_writes/
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rachelmwriter
  

FEATURED GUEST: MICHELE BURNS 

Michele is a busy lady with six grandchildren, six cats and dreams of seeing her stories in bookshops—and maybe even the big screen. As an ex- Deputy Headteacher, singer, and academic journals contributor, storytelling is the thread that has run through her career. Her academic background is in computing and English language and literature and she’s on the final edit of her debut novel whilst resuming a second she started forty years ago!

Connect with Michele:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michelej_burns?igsh=MTY1MWJoYWxxYTU1OA==
• X: https://x.com/mjmothership
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@michelejburns
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mikki.burns.948/?_rdr

ABOUT THE HOST: IMAN LLOMPART 

Iman Llompart is a Spanish American romantasy writer and interviewer based in Dubai. She’s working on her debut novel and hosting Beyond the Rough Draft in collaboration with Writer’s Fun Zone.

Iman’s mission is to create space for honest conversations with writers — the kind that reveal both the doubt and the discipline behind the craft.

Connect with Iman:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imanllompart/?hl=en
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iman-llompart-2a13741a9/
• Email: isllompart17@gmail.com

RESOURCES & LINKS

• Writer’s Fun Zone — https://writersfunzone.com/blog
• How To Write the Future Podcast — https://writersfunzone.com/blog/podcast
• Email Iman to be a guest — isllompart17@gmail.com

ABOUT BEYOND THE ROUGH DRAFT 

Beyond the Rough Draft is a new interview series hosted by Iman Llompart on Writer’s Fun Zone, the creative hub founded by Beth Barany.

The show dives into the messy and meaningful process behind writing — the moments of self-doubt, breakthrough, and transformation that shape every story.

Each conversation pulls back the curtain on how writers stay creative, curious, and resilient in the face of chaos.

Because writing isn’t just about word count — it’s about becoming who you are through the process.

ABOUT WRITER’S FUN ZONE & BETH BARANY 

Writer’s Fun Zone, founded by Beth Barany, is an online creative hub that supports fiction and creative nonfiction writers through coaching, podcasts, and resources.

Beth is an award-winning author and creativity coach whose mission is to help writers craft their best work and bring their stories to life.

Learn more: https://writersfunzone.com/blog
Listen to Beth’s Podcast: How To Write the Future

CONNECT WITH THE SHOW 

Listen & Subscribe: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/beyondtheroughdraft

Follow on Instagram: @bethbarany | @writersfunzoneblog | @imanllompart

Want to be featured?

Email Iman Llompart at isllompart17@gmail.com

CREDITS 

Host: Iman Llompart
Guests: Rachel McLaughlin, Michele Burns
Produced in collaboration with: Writer’s Fun Zone
Edited with: Descript  https://www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA
Distributed by: Spotify https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/beyondtheroughdraft 

© 2026 Beyond the Rough Draft | A Writer’s Fun Zone Production

The post Mother-Daughter Duo on Folklore, Family, Finishing the Draft: Rachel McLaughlin and Michele Burns appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

Beth Barany recently joined Amy Ayres for a conversation about writing careers, creative growth, genre-bending stories, and the many paths writers take to build a sustainable writing life.

In this first installment of Amy’s conversation series, Beth shares insights from her experiences as a novelist, creativity coach, developmental editor, podcaster, and entrepreneur.

Together, Beth and Amy discuss their early writing experiences, the evolving publishing landscape, and how writers can stay connected to their creativity while navigating the practical realities of a writing career.

Beth Barany is an award-winning science fiction and fantasy novelist, creativity coach, and developmental editor who helps science fiction and fantasy writers plan, write, revise, and market their novels with practical tools and a sustainable, heart-centered approach.

Through her coaching, courses, and membership programs, Beth supports writers in building strong stories, consistent habits, and lasting creative confidence.

When she’s not teaching or coaching, Beth writes magical tales of romance, mystery, and adventure that empower women and girls to become the heroes of their own lives. She also hosts the How to Write the Future podcast, where she explores storytelling craft, mindset, creativity, and the changing landscape of publishing.

If you’re curious about Beth’s fiction, check out her freebies and newsletter!

Newsletter: https://author.bethbarany.com/newsletter-sign-up/
Freebies: https://author.bethbarany.com/free-books/

In this episode, Beth and Amy discuss:

• Building a writing career over time
• Early experiences that shaped their creative journeys
• Genre blending and writing beyond traditional boundaries
• Creative coaching and supporting writers through challenges
• Sustainable approaches to creativity and publishing
• The evolving world of writing and storytelling

This conversation is especially valuable for writers who are looking for encouragement, practical wisdom, and a reminder that there is no single path to success in publishing.

About Amy Ayres’ Podcast

Amy Ayres hosts The Neurodivergent Writer’s Playbook, a podcast and Substack dedicated to helping writers embrace their unique creative processes and build sustainable writing practices. Through conversations with writers, creatives, and publishing professionals, Amy explores storytelling, creativity, publishing, mindset, and the realities of building a writing life. Her interviews encourage writers to develop meaningful creative habits, navigate challenges with confidence, and create work that reflects their individual strengths and perspectives.

Listen to the interview
https://amymarieayres.substack.com/p/my-conversation-with-beth-barany

Connect with Beth Barany
Website: https://www.bethbarany.com
Podcast: HOW TO WRITE THE FUTURE — http://howtowritethefuture.com

Free Resource Mentioned in the Episode
Edit Your Novel Checklist:
https://bethbarany.thrivecart.com/edit-your-novel-checklist/

More interviews with Beth:
https://writersfunzone.com/blog/category/podcast/

Interested in interviewing Beth?
https://writersfunzone.com/blog/contact-beth/

The post Beth Barany Talks Writing Careers, Genre-Bending Stories, and Creative Coaching with Amy Ayres appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

***

The Essential Nature of Creativity

It is precisely when times are tough, when the entire world is bubbling over in upheaval, that we need to lean on our creative practices more than ever.

Many of us are conditioned early on, either overtly or covertly, that creativity and artistic expression are nice — but only as hobbies.

They are something to do if you finish all of your responsibilities and ‘important’ tasks first.

This is the messaging creatives face on a good day.

On a bad day — such as when the world is on fire — this perceived indulgence may not only be judged, but vilified.

Who are you to think that when there is chaos and disaster that you can sit down and put words on the page?

When the news is churning out horror after horror, how can you even think of flipping through the whispering pages of a much-loved poetry book, letting your mind wander through lyric and rhyme?

How Art Has Helped Us Survive

A strange collective amnesia takes hold — one where we forget our origins.

It was not just bricks and mortar that built civilizations.

It was not only sophisticated plumbing and agricultural practices which anchored communities.

It was art.

Symbols and images carved into caves, words surviving centuries on stone tablets creating legacy and culture — these traditions are what allow us to be in conversation with our ancestors today.

It is through these creations that we can see how they lived, processed the world, understood events and learned from their experiences.

The act of creation is not only a conversation which could be passed down through the ages, but also one we have with ourselves.

It is through creation that we connect with ourselves and cultivate an understanding of who we are as well as our place in the big wide world.

Storytelling, myths, legends, and fairy-tales are ancient practices creating meaning out of the mayhem which mere existence on this planet brings.

It is especially when times are tough, and the world is a confusing mosh pit of chaos, that we need to be able to lean into ways to make sense of it.

Creation as Regulation

The act of creation is regulation.

It is how we find calm amidst the storm.

It may be said that it is selfish to create when others are suffering.

It is an indulgence which cannot be afforded.

However, finding ways to manage your emotions and maintain calm is an act of integrity and self-awareness.

The more one is able to maintain a sense of equanimity, the more this effect will ripple out within that person’s social circle.

The more one creates and alchemizes the pain and confusion into works of art, meaning and beauty, the more others are given permission to do the same.

The more we focus on the bright, beautiful and brilliant, the more we can carve out little spaces in the world which reflect this.

It can be in creating a commonplace book or inspirational collage to put up in your study.

It could be painting a mural or reciting poetry at an open mic event.

These little acts of creation lend themselves to creative thinking, out-of-the-box problem solving and innovation — all necessary skills to have within the changing landscape of the world.

Art: A Quiet Rebellion

To create during times of uncertainty is an act of much needed rebellion.

It is focusing your time and attention on that which you can control.

Do what you can for social justice — sign petitions, donate to important causes, raise awareness — but also, create art!

Write a poem to process the world.

Switch off the news and switch on your laptop to review the final draft of your book.

Pick up the paintbrush and splash red paint all over the canvas.

This is how we help ourselves and help others in meaningful and tangible ways.

This is how we cope and build resilience.

While the world may tell you creating is an act of frivolity, we would not survive without it.

Humans need meaning, connection, and, dare I say it, a little magic to get through the days.

We need these little glimmers to hold on to when the world is dark around us.

Small acts of creation are the sparks which keep the soul alive.

Creating when the world is in upheaval is an act of love for both yourself and those around you.

It is time to remove the sting of stigma from the creative process and normalize prioritizing passion projects, elevate hobbies to the status of meaningful work, and begin a quiet revolution where the world recognizes how creativity nurtures, holds and heals the human soul.

Poetry from the trenches shows us that no matter who we are or where we are, the need to express our feelings, fears and desires is deeply rooted in the human psyche.

Creativity is alchemy.

It is a magic as old as time, a superpower which humans have always had at their fingertips.

It is time to embrace this and observe how we can add just a little bit of sparkle to our pocket of the world, offering a beacon to those who need it.

***

About The Author

Nicole Plumridge is a three-time published author whose debut novel became an Amazon bestseller.

Her work has appeared in The Poetryhood and Half-Light Magazine.

She is also a creativity and book coach who supports creatives in building creative practices and reconnecting with their inner magic.

Connect with Nicole and book a discovery call if your creativity is calling you.

Website: https://nicoleplumridgecoaching.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/authornicoleplumridge

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-plumridge-39512368

The post When the World is on Fire — Create! by Nicole Plumridge appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

 Crafting a Compelling Villain: Goals, Motivation, Conflict – How To Write the Future podcast, episode 210

***

“In addition to your villain’s goal, they need a motivation. They feel like they’re the hero of their own story. They have a good reason for wanting what they want.” – Beth Barany

In some stories long after the final page is closed, the villain often captivates the reader over a hero. Their backstory, portrayal, beliefs, and even down to certain acts of heroism, but how do you make your villain compelling?
In the latest How To Write the Future podcast episode, titled “Crafting a Compelling Villain: Goals, Motivation, Conflict” host Beth Barany, shares how to craft a compelling villain to engage readers, drive the plot of their story, and ways to build an in-depth conflict within their journey.

Use the steps outlined in the episode to plan and draft out your villain and apply it to your story.

Platforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube

RESOURCES 

JOIN: For fiction writers! You’ve finished your first draft! Congrats! Now what?

Join the Future-Ready Writer membership and get premium weekly lessons and a monthly Q&A on Zoom. Subscribe: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061/subscribe

FREE: Sign up here to get your World Building Workbook for Fiction Writers

Overwhelmed by world-building for your sci-fi/fantasy novel? Use these prompts to brainstorm your story’s world: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/world-building-resources/

SHOP**: Sci‑Fi & Fantasy 24 Writing Prompts:** https://ko-fi.com/s/4ac9160a74

Want to be interviewed on the podcast? => Email us!

FOR CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSIONALS – BUILD YOUR BUSINESS SERVING WRITERS

Sign up to be notified when our training opens and get a short Creative Business Style Quiz to help you create success.

https://bethbarany.com/apprenticeship/

Support our work for creatives!

Buy me a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany

GET SUPPORT FOR YOUR FICTION WRITING BY A NOVELIST AND WRITING TEACHER AND COACH

Schedule an exploratory call here and see if Beth can support you today: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/discovery-call/

About the How To Write the Future podcast 

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

This podcast is for you if you have questions like:

– How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?

– How do I figure out what’s not working if my story feels flat?

– How do I make my story more interesting and alive?

This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

Transcript for Crafting a Compelling Villain: Goals, Motivation, Conflict, How To Write the Future podcast, episode 210 

Welcome and Focus 

BETH BARANY: Hi, everyone. Beth Barany here with How to Write the Future podcast.

My focus is on helping specifically science fiction and fantasy writers. In that light, I talk about craft, the writing craft. 

[00:14] Villain Goals That Drive Plot 

So today I’m gonna talk about tips on how to craft an awesome villain. Let’s get started. 

You wanna give your villain a goal, a reason for their goal, and conflict.

Because guess what? Your villains are people too. In their own mind, what they’re doing is reasonable. So give them a goal that is specific and active. Remember, a compelling villain isn’t trying to be evil. They’re actually trying to achieve something, and they can justify that. 

[00:47] Make Goals Concrete and Urgent 

So first off, think of your villain’s goal as a concrete verb phrase. They are there to seize or protect or punish, expose, restore, control, purify, stabilize. Also, make their goal time-bound or urgent. In this way, it will create plot pressure. So perhaps your villain wants to seize property to protect their domain, or they want to stabilize the magic so that things don’t go out of control into chaos. Legitimate. 

So when you think of your villain’s goal, you want to think of it, explain it like this. Be able to say this or write this: My villain wants goal by method before deadline, because otherwise consequences.

[01:49] Motivation and Core Beliefs 

Now, in addition to your villain’s goal, they need a motivation. They feel like they’re the hero of their own story. They have a good reason for wanting what they want. They don’t wake up thinking, I’m the bad guy. No, they believe they’re right. They believe they’re justified. And usually, and, you know, this goes for every character that you assign a goal to in your story, their motivation has an emotional engine.

It could be fear, it could be grief, or entitlement, ideology, revenge, shame, love, devotion, or a hunger for order.

See if you can design your villain’s core belief that underpins their quest for their goal as a sentence they might even say out loud, that they would defend in public. What would they say if they had to defend their goal? If you can write that in a convincing way, then the readers will feel the villain’s logic even while they disagree or even hate the villain, and that’s okay.

To make our villains compelling we have to make them relatable, and we do that by hinting at or revealing their surface-level motivation but also their deep motivation for what they want. And in some writing craft explainer books, they will call this the want. The need is the goal, and the want is the motivation.

I find that a bit confusing. 

[03:21] Backstory Prompt for Motivation 

I think if you classify it as the motivation and keep asking why and go down deep, deep to the core belief that stemmed. Often they stem from either childhood experiences or some amazing crisis turning point in their early life, in their teen life. Our core beliefs are changing and shifting all the time.

Your character could also be motivated by a recent event as well that shaped why they want what they want. 

So here’s the prompt. So write down for yourself: “My villain believes X. They learned it when, at some point in time. So now they must act a certain way.”

[04:03] Conflict Mirrors the Hero 

Let’s move on to conflict. You wanna design your villain’s conflict as a mirror of the protagonist’s goal. Conflict isn’t just, oh, the hero fights the villain. Rawr. 

No, you need a specific thing that blocks the villain’s goal, and that is most often the protagonist’s values, choices, or very existence. 

[04:29] Internal Cracks and Escalation 

So a strong villain will also carry their internal conflicts. So they won’t just have their external conflicts, usually represented by the protagonist, but they will also have internal conflicts. It will be blind spots or contradictions or even self-justifying stories they tell themselves, that can get in the way, too.

So you wanna see if you can make your villain’s strength a direct pressure point on the protagonist’s weakness, and vice versa. You wanna make your protagonist’s strength a direct pressure point on the villain’s weakness. And then see if you can add one internal fault line or crack in the villain that makes their approach tragically inevitable if you wanna end the story with the protagonist being triumphant.

Of course, if you’re writing a tragedy where the pr- antagonist succeeds over the protagonist, then that fault line could be inside of the protagonist. 

So here’s the prompt: the hero blocks the villain because some value or action. The villain can’t adapt because some blind spot. So the villain escalates by some action.

[05:49] Wrap Up and Farewell 

So today we talked about the goal, motivation, and conflict of your villain. If you can define this clearly for yourself, now you have created a compelling villain.

That’s it for this week, everyone. Write long and prosper.  ​

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here: 

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061 

Need instructions on how to leave a review? Go here.

***

Support our work for creatives: leave a tip: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany 

***

ABOUT BETH BARANY 

Beth Barany is an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. They help novelists write, revise, and publish stories that matter—blending practical craft guidance with a big-picture commitment to imagination, meaning, and possibility. 

Learn more about Beth Barany at these sites: 

Author site /  Coaching site / School of Fiction / Writer’s Fun Zone blog

CONNECT 

Contact Beth: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/podcast/#tve-jump-185b4422580

Email: beth@bethbarany.com

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbarany/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/bethbarany/

TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@bethbarany/

FB: https://www.facebook.com/bethbarany

X: https://twitter.com/BethBarany

CREDITS 

• EDITED WITH DESCRIPT: https://www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA (Refer-a-Friend link)
• MUSIC CREDITS : Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/fuzz-buzz License code: UMMKDRL02DFGKJ0L. “Fuzz buzz” by Soundroll. Commercial license: https://musicvine.com/track/soundroll/fuzz-buzz.
• DISTRIBUTED BY BUZZSPROUT: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1994465 (Refer-a-Friend link)
• SHOW PRODUCTION BY Beth Barany
• SHOW CO-PRODUCTION + NOTES by Kerry-Ann McDade

c 2025 BETH BARANY

https://bethbarany.com/

For more “How To Write the Future” episodes, go here.

If you’d like to invite Beth onto your podcast, drop her a note here.

Like the work we do? Tip us! https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany

The post Crafting a Compelling Villain: Goals, Motivation, Conflict appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

***

Protecting Your Work Before Publication

Let’s face it, traditional publishing is not for everyone.

The number of self-published authors continues to grow as technology makes the self-publishing process easier (until it comes time to market, but that’s a whole different conversation).

With so many authors choosing self-publishing, it’s more important than ever to know what to do to protect your work.

Below is a checklist of copyright-related tasks to take care of before you publish:

Verify Rights and Permissions

1. Make sure you have all the rights and permissions you need. 

Double-check that all your content is original to you.

If there’s anything that’s not original to you, make sure a) it is not copyright-protected or b) you have permission to use it.

2. Make sure you have contracts in place for any co-authors or service providers.

I’ve known a number of authors over the years who came to grief because they did not have a written agreement in place with their co-authors, ghostwriters, illustrators, or other people who put their hands (physical or digital) on the manuscript.

Save yourself the hair-pulling and have signed agreements that state who owns the copyright and how and when people will get paid.

3. Fill out the copyright notice page. 

This is the page at the front of the book that states what year the book was copyrighted and who the owner is.

Some other information you can put on this page:

• • Contact information for permissions.  This tells people how to contact you if they want permission to use your work.
  • Disclaimers. This is more for trademark or right of publicity issues, but a disclaimer can be helpful to show that you’re not trying to claim ownership of a trademark or model a character after a real person.

For example, most movies have a line in the credits that says something along the lines of “This is a work of fiction.

Any resemblance to real people, living or deceased, is coincidental.”

• • Permissions or limitations. You could give limited permissions on this page, e.g., saying it’s okay to quote from the book as long as the quote is three sentences or less.

You can also put limitations on this page; a popular one these days is “You may not use this work to train AI software and/or large language models.”

4. Keep copies of notes and drafts.

There are two reasons for this.

First, it can show the work is original to you and not AI-generated.

Second, it can establish that the work existed in a certain format at a certain time.

If there is a copyright infringement lawsuit or if the Copyright Office claims the work is AI-generated, having these drafts and notes will prove helpful.

Final Thoughts

Those are the key steps to take before you publish to protect your work.

In Part 2 next month, we’ll cover what to do after your book is published to maintain and enforce your rights.

If you’d like to take a closer look at your manuscript or make sure everything is properly in place, feel free to reach out at kaway@kawaylaw.com or visit https://kawaylaw.com.

***

Want to read more articles like this one Writer’s Fun Zone? Subscribe here.

***

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Kelley Way was born and raised in Walnut Creek, California. She graduated from UC Davis with a B.A. in English, followed by a Juris Doctorate. Kelley is a member of the California Bar, and an aspiring writer of young adult fantasy novels. More information at kawaylaw.com.

The post Self-Publishing Copyright Checklist: What to Do Before You Publish by Kelley Way appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

How To Find the Right Illustrator for You with Anna Leitensdorfer – How To Write the Future podcast, episode 209

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“Since it was my first book cover there, I learned a lot. There was a big process involved. Lots of figuring out, print lingo, making sure things are where they should be. So it was definitely a learning process.” – Anna Leitensdorfer 

In this How to Write the Future podcast episode, titled “How To Find the Right Illustrator for You with Anna Leitensdorfer” host Beth Barany interviews book illustrator Anna Leitensdorfer, who creates maps, character art, interior illustrations, and recently completed her first book cover.

Anna explains how authors can choose the right illustrator by narrowing in on style and, for covers, matching genre expectations through comparable titles.

She shares ways to avoid scams, including watching for unsolicited DMs, inconsistent portfolio quality, and verifying prior projects, referrals, and a clear online presence.

Anna discusses timing for commissioning maps and character art, emphasizing the importance of knowing trim size for print work and planning ahead for an artist’s lead time.

She outlines her process and booking system, including contracts, revision stages, deliverables for web and print, and provided specs and files. She also notes she specializes in fantasy and romantasy and enjoys collaborative communication.

00:00 Welcome and Introductions 

00:38 Meet Anna the Illustrator 

01:18 From Maps to Book Covers 

02:38 Choosing the Right Style 

05:52 Avoiding Artist Scams 

09:09 When to Commission Art 

13:01 Booking and Lead Times 

14:39 Anna’s Mapmaking Workflow 

18:56 Genres and Creative Freedom 

20:29 Write the Future and Farewell

Platforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube

RESOURCES

JOIN: For fiction writers! You’ve finished your first draft! Congrats! Now what?

Join the Future-Ready Writer membership and get premium weekly lessons and a monthly Q&A on Zoom. Subscribe: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061/subscribe

FREE: Sign up here to get your World Building Workbook for Fiction Writers

Overwhelmed by world-building for your sci-fi/fantasy novel? Use these prompts to brainstorm your story’s world: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/world-building-resources/

SHOP**: Sci‑Fi & Fantasy 24 Writing Prompts:** https://ko-fi.com/s/4ac9160a74

Want to be interviewed on the podcast? => Email us!

FOR CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSIONALS – BUILD YOUR BUSINESS SERVING WRITERS

Sign up to be notified when our training opens and get a short Creative Business Style Quiz to help you create success.

https://bethbarany.com/apprenticeship/

Support our work for creatives!

Buy me a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany

GET SUPPORT FOR YOUR FICTION WRITING BY A NOVELIST AND WRITING TEACHER AND COACH

Schedule an exploratory call here and see if Beth can support you today: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/discovery-call/

About the How To Write the Future podcast

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

This podcast is for you if you have questions like:

– How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?

– How do I figure out what’s not working if my story feels flat?

– How do I make my story more interesting and alive?

This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

ABOUT ANNA LEITENSDORFER

Anna Leitensdorfer is an illustrator specializing in fantasy art dedicated to assisting authors with bringing characters from their books and scenes from their worlds to life in a visual format. With a background in animation, her art style reflects cinematic framing and dynamic posing while also channeling that inner old-timey fantasy vibe! The best part? NO AI in ANY of her work! Projects with dragons are particularly her favorite. She currently lives in Missouri with her 2 Shetland Sheepdogs and is working on writing her own novels while pursuing doing illustration full-time.

Website: https://www.annaleitensdorfer.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/valkyrie_hero/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/anna.leitensdorfer

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anna-leitensdorfer-288558138/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@valkyrie_hero

Transcript for Hiring an Illustrator Without Getting Scammed with Anna Leitensdorfer

Welcome and Introductions 

BETH BARANY: Hi everyone. Welcome to How to Write the Future podcast. I’m your host Beth Barany, and I am an award-winning science fiction and fantasy author, editor, and teacher. I’m also a keynote speaker and filmmaker. Yep. I have a lot of irons in the fire, and one of the things I’m very passionate about is talking to other creative people who are part of the creative process and making our books, but also do some amazing things that can help us.

So I’m very excited today to bring in Anna. Anna, why don’t you introduce yourself. Tell us what you do and Yeah, I’m excited to jump in. 

[00:38] Meet Anna the Illustrator 

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: Well, thank you so much, Beth. Hi everybody. My name is Anna. I am currently based in St. Louis, Missouri. Co, I studied animation in college and, things just, one thing after the next and, job wise, it was a very competitive job market out there.

So I decided to look into something a little different. And as it turns out, I illustrate for books now, so I do all kinds of author services for them when it comes to the art side of their books, so they don’t have to worry about it, because that’s my job. I get to make so many, so much pretty artwork and I love doing it and I can’t wait to do more. This is this is my third year doing it, so I’m super excited. 

BETH BARANY: That’s so great. 

[01:18] From Maps to Book Covers

I don’t remember how we met. It may have been in some other networking group, but I was really excited to hear about what you do both from, just from a filmmaker’s perspective too, because I’ve been working with designers over there, and as a science fiction and fantasy writer, I daydream about the maps. I daydream about my settings. So one of the things I saw on your website is that you make maps and you do character art. Do you also do covers? 

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: It’s funny you say that. I actually did my first book cover last month.

Right now it’s just the ebook. The author already has it uploaded to Amazon ’cause she was so excited. It was just a surreal feeling, seeing my cover on Amazon. But, working on the paperback version as we speak. Since it was my first book cover there, I learned a lot. There was like a big process involved. Lots of figuring out print lingo, making sure things are where they should be. So it was definitely a learning process and it’s like a, it’s like a witchy romance or witch fantasy romance, that sort of thing. So she’s just like, we gotta have the two characters on the front cover. And I was like, say no more. I got you. 

So, I’m in the middle of finishing the second half of that. 

BETH BARANY: Ah, that’s so exciting. So, you’ve written a few articles for our blog Writer’s Fun Zone, and so folks wanna read more about how you work with authors that can go there. But since I have you.

[02:38] Choosing the Right Style 

Can you tell us, and this is something I’ve thought about as well, how do you find the right illustrator for your book? And by illustrator are we talking about people who do maps or people who do inset art? like what is the kind of art that you have been providing? And then how do authors find the right illustrator for them?

How to vet them to avoid scams? 

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: So I think what it comes down to is just style. What style do you like? And of course that applies depending on which aspect. So character art, you could look at a bunch of different styles, maps, bunch of different styles, but book covers are a bit more narrow. In the sense that if you have a specific genre, you book cover needs to reflect other, you have to look at other comparative titles in that genre. So what those covers will look like. And that’s what your, your cover artist is gonna look at too because when I’m walking around a bookstore and I want to find a, romantasy cover, I’m not gonna be looking in the nonfiction section because all the nonfiction covers are gonna be, bold colors, simple text. Like they’re not gonna be, a bunch of filler gray and like skulls and roses and all that other stuff. So that’s a bit more narrow because you do have to fit the genre expectations when it comes to covers. 

Now of course you can do other things as well, but just, keep that in mind.

However, when it comes to maps and character art, you’ve got a little more freedom and it’s just what you like style wise. And what I mean by style, I mean that illustrator’s signature look. So like children’s books have a very distinct style to them.

They’re very whimsy, they’re very colorful. They’re very stylized. I attribute them a lot to fun little, like watercolor paintings. Like children’s book illustrators have a very distinct look to them.

Other styles include anime, cartoony, stylized, painterly, semi realistic, realistic. So when you look for illustrators, narrow down what style you want because you don’t want somebody commenting or placing in a bid and their style is the complete opposite of what you’re looking for.

So that’s how you can narrow down other illustrators. 

I have three, roughly three different styles that I’ve been working on over the years. A lot of my interior illustrations, full pages and my illustration boards, which you use to pitch to film studios back in the day. I love doing that size, but that’s more, painterly. So it’s very stylized, very painterly. There’s no outlines, very colorful. With my background in animation, I lean a lot towards cinematic framing, like if I were filming this on a camera for IMAX, what would this shot look like? So I am very partial to something like that.

And then also when I draw character art, that’s a little more stylized on the cartoony side, because in animation, they taught us, take a character but exaggerate, certain features and just keep, drawing it and drawing it until you get a good silhouette or proportions that you really like or just fit that character.

So there’s all kinds of tests involved. So my character art is very, noticeable by line art. I like to do dynamic poses. And I will line art the characters and either painterly the background or line and color the background as well. So mine are a bit more on the stylized side, what you would probably see them in more an animated feature.

So they’re a little bit more on that side as far as style. 

[05:52] Avoiding Artist Scams 

BETH BARANY: How do you advise authors to avoid any kind of scams with shopping for an illustrator?

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: A lot of authors will be on threads and they will put a call for artists, whether it’s, book cover, character art, maps, what have you. They’ll be like, Hey, I’m looking for a character artist.

They’re gonna get a flood of comments saying, X, Y, Z. There are legitimate ones, but there’s also a bunch of scammers in there. And a big ginormous tell is if they direct message you without your consent. If you both do not mutually agree, for example, in the comment section, then that’s a big tell.

That’s a scam. 

And then the second thing is looking at art, their art style. 

So, granted I have three art styles and I’m constantly evolving, learning them, how to get better at them. But another big tell is when an artist or a scam account has drew something really bad, two weeks ago, and then they post again and it’s so fully rendered it’s like crazy. And it’s this doesn’t add up. Something isn’t, there’s no way they got that good in two weeks. You wanna see a natural progression. You wanna see styles that are similar. ‘Cause some artists they just work in one style and that’s all they post, which is completely fine.

And then other thing is when you’re vetting artists, look for previous projects. So, for example, on my website, I am not shy. I always ask the authors, Hey, how would you like me to credit you for your IP on my website? ’cause I want people to know this is who I did the work for. Go check out their book ’cause it’s freaking amazing.

So I will name the author and their book and I’ll also name the publication date if it is applicable. Some of ’em, they get the art done way ahead of time, and they don’t have a publication date yet, and some are already published. So depending on that I also list the publication dates so it’s easy to find them because then if you want, you can message the author directly and be like, Hey, I got a question. Well, how was your experience working with this artist? So they know it’s a real person. 

So another thing is also asking other authors is a good way to vet illustrators because a lot of authors will find out if their illustrator was AI and they’ll cancel the project and be like, Hey, beware this person, they charged me X amount for AI and not, actual human hand-drawn artwork. 

So referrals are also a big thing, because you can always search up. If you’re scrolling Instagram for some reason and you follow a lot of authors and you see artwork pop up and you’re like, Ooh, I love that character art, nine times outta ten, it’ll be signed by the artist, either with their signature or their tag online, and then you can go and find them. Or the author will have them tagged in the description or in the comments so other people can look them up as they want as well which brings me to my next point is their presence. If the illustrator has a very good social media slash online presence, that will do wonders. 

My tag on Instagram is the same as threads, TikTok, and X. So it’s easy to find me everywhere and I also like websites because you can showcase your portfolio to a much wider audience. 

I like to communicate through email a lot because that way we have records for the both of us. Everything is in writing, so that way we we all make sure we are on the same page.

[09:09] When to Commission Art 

BETH BARANY: Let’s jump to timing. Let’s talk about scheduling.

Like, there I am. I’m editing my novel and is now a good time to think about maps and character art for marketing? I personally start thinking about cover design in editing process. I haven’t yet hired anyone to do maps, and I’ve only done some playful, character art, as I was starting to explore my film process for the project.

But I’ve never really tied that kind of thing to the book production process. So what do you recommend? When do authors need to start thinking about, oh, I wanna map, I’m ready to put some funds aside for that, or, oh, I want character art for my Kickstarter or for, marketing. 

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: So when it comes to maps, if you’re putting it in your book, I’ve done maps as early as the author had written the first few chapters, and they’re like, I need a map so I know where my characters are going. Like, this is insane. I need to get this mapped out so I know what their journey is. So I’ve done it as early as that, but I always ask them, what is your trim size?

Because if you plan on putting this in your book, you need to know the trim size of your novel. And that goes for any KDP. One of the standards for romantasy, for example, is six inches by nine inches. So anytime I draw the map, I do it based off of those measurements. But I always tell the author, Hey, I can sketch out everything, but I need to know, finalize what your size is before I ink, line, and color, because that is gonna be very hard to change if your trim size changes. So you gotta know your trim size. And that goes for book covers, that goes for children’s books, that goes for interior illustrations. You’ve got to know your trim size and even though you’ve just written a few chapters and you’re like, oh, I still need to finish, draft one, but you’re really set on getting the book done. You gotta know your trim size. Very, very big. 

So I can get started on that map as early as draft one or when you’ve edited everything and it’s ready to be published, you just need to put a map in the book. So maps are flexible in that regard. And then as far as character art, that can be done pretty much whenever. I think the best timing for that though, if you really wanna utilize it, is, pre-release of a book. You can use it as a teaser. You can use it as a newsletter, sign up, grab like, Hey, if you wanna see this, if you wanna see character from my upcoming book, you gotta come on, gotta join my newsletter. 

So it’s a way authors can, I wouldn’t say suck you in, but draw you into the book so you’re ready for it when it’s published. And I’ve seen, you can go as early as, three or four months before your book releases. But depending on what artists you choose, you gotta look ahead and see A, their prices and if it’s within your budget, and B, if they have openings for that time and see how long it will take them to do. So for me, character art takes about two to three weeks, for a fully illustrated thing with all the fixings. So I can get that done relatively quickly, where some artists, depending on their style, it might take them two months.

So just, touching base with the artists, asking them, Hey, how long is it gonna take you to do this? So you have it in time for your release. Now, you can also get character done after the book has been published as a fun incentive to be like, Hey, if you want a special edition of this book, it comes with character art as well.

So it’s a great marketing tool. And it’s fantastic to use to draw, ’cause I’m an artist, I see pretty art for a book, I’m gonna go run to find out where the pretty art came from. And if it has a book attached, I’m probably gonna buy the book because it looks fantastic. 

Character art is just great before the book is out in my opinion because then you can really get that audience, tease them. Then once the book releases, they’re gonna be chomping at the bit to find out what more to the story. 

BETH BARANY: Yeah. Great. Yeah. Great promo idea. 

[13:01] Booking and Lead Times 

And lastly, let’s talk about how people work with you, because you were saying, every artist that you wanna hire is gonna have a lead time.

You need time to make the art of course. There’s also, we gotta build in time, to hire someone. And I’m a producer, so I’m thinking about all of these, like there’s the end product and say the publishing date is here, how early do they need to come in and talk to you? and then how do you work with the authors?

What’s the process that you take the authors through? 

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: So I’m gonna start with, looking ahead, So for me, every artist is a little different. I do everything in six month chunks. So at the beginning of January I opened up slots from January till June. And, just letting people know you can book me out as far as June right now.

Now, next month in May, I will open up slots for the rest of the year. So July to December. I’ve already got people asking me and I was like, I’ll open those up in May and then you can pick your slots. But that’s just how I work. Some artists they do it on a month by month basis or they book out as far as a year in advance.

So it really depends. I have a booking schedule on my website. So I have it all on there, like, Hey, here are the slots that are currently open for these months. So even if you’re not ready or you need to save up, you can look further along in the year to see if I have an opening, because you can have the contract signed and ready to go as early as May for work in October, but that just means you’ve solidified your spot. Nobody else has taken that spot so that way you have time to save up the money. And I also offer half and half if that works better within your budget.

So just communicating with the artist, see what their booking schedule is like. 

[14:39] Anna’s Mapmaking Workflow

As far as me, I’m gonna do a map example. I love my map example. So when you commission me for a map, we talk all the dirty details. We make sure, do you want continent, regional? Do you want any of these add-ons? ’cause I do offer illustrated borders, icons, accent color, texture, background, and full color. So those are all different add-ons. You can pick and choose which ones you would like, or if you just want the base, that’s totally fine too. So we hammer out all this details in email.

And once those are all finalized, I send out a contract and licensing agreement for the author to sign. I always tell them, please read it over carefully because some, sometimes I will accidentally misspell something or I will have the wrong number. I always tell them, please read it over carefully before signing. That goes for any artist, not just me. And that goes for any artist you do a contract with. So that being said, once all that is done, say it’s for the month of May 1st, I get started. If it’s for a map, I will do three silhouettes. So I’ll sketch out three different silhouettes for a continent, for example. I’ll place all these cities and towns that they described ’cause the author will send me either a sketch version of their map and or a Word document with a bunch of descriptions, and I interpret from there. And then I send the sketches to the author in a flat book with my branding via email and they will, they can either pick one and you’re good to go, or they get a revision stage as well. So if they wanna pick one and make changes or if they wanna see three entirely new silhouettes, perfectly within, it’s built into the price. So revision stage. And then after that revision one is approved, I move onto line art.

So I ink everything I write everything down, put in the name city towns names, put it together. Put in a flat book, send it to the author, after that is revision two. So at that point, checking for spelling, checking for, readability, all that other fun stuff to make sure your map is coming away exactly how you want it. So you get a revision stage after that. And then once that is all approved, then we go on to the finals. 

So if your map has any color that will be put in there, any final renderings. And then once that is finished, it gets put into a flat book sent to the author for a final round of revisions if needed.

So there’s three revisions built into my mapmaking process, and then they can either revise or they’re like, Hey, looks good. Good to go. I package it up into a final package. I have an RGV folder for web digital, and I have a C-M-Y-K folder for print. Everything is, everything is prepped and ready to go depending on where you wanna put it.

I also put in a Word document, which has all your specs. So if you ever have like a book designer who’s like, what size is this map? I put it all in the spec sheet so you don’t have to go digging for it. And then I also include a bleed example. So if your book is in print, I give you a bleed example with the gutter and the bleed on the outside.

So when you’re sizing your book, yourself, for example, and a formatting software, you can see how to size the map properly,on the pages. So the bleed area is just what gets cut off. It’s just me showing the author, Hey. Here’s a visual, here’s where the gutter is. That’s why nothing important is in the middle of your map because it’s all going into the center of the gutter. That’s why you don’t wanna put anything important around there ’cause it all folds in. So I gave a bunch of examples that way. And then I also include the Photoshop files that I worked in, because I’m not scared about sharing my process. 

The reasoning behind that is in the event your book designer needs to fix something small or they just make a, a couple minor adjustments to suit the size of the book or whatever ’cause that stuff happens. They’re like, yeah, by all means you do you, all I ask is that is the only thing those Photoshop files are used for.

They’re just to make sure you get your tiny little adjustments. They’re not to be used for anything else. So they’re just me just being transparent and letting here’s your files. Have at it. 

BETH BARANY: That’s really great. And just for those of us who don’t know, what is flat book? Is, that’s a piece of software?

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: It’s a PDF, with my branding on it, and it’ll have my name, the author’s name, the project type for example, your fantasy map and on the back it’ll list, if it, what stage it was or what revision it was. You can look back and see like the progress made or if it’s like your, for your records kind of thing.

So it’s just a way for artists to showcase their work in a professional manner. 

BETH BARANY: Well, I think you’ve given us a really thorough discussion and overview of what it’s like to work with illustrators, what it’s like to work with you.

[18:56] Genres and Creative Freedom 

Is there anything else that you wanna offer up to authors? What’s your favorite kind of genres do you work with? Is it science only? Science fiction and fantasy, romantasy, that kind of thing. And what do you, who do you like to work with? 

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: Going back to our style conversation earlier is when looking for artists, look at what genres they specialize in.

So I specialize in fantasy and romantasy. I love drawing creatures as well. So like unicorns, dragons, love that stuff. I also have done some sci-fi, some dystopian maps. 

I’m open to other ones. 

BETH BARANY: Mm-hmm. 

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: If you like the style, so it just comes down to the style. Authors I love working with are ones who are just like, here’s a general overview or here’s the scene that I want drawn, but do whatever you want, man. So they can give me the scene, but I could draw it differently than how it’s depicted. I think like a camera movement. If you’re looking at something dead on with a camera, well, I might be thinking of the scene as an overhead shot. So a little different than what the author had in mind.

So I like doing a lot of that. An author I’m working with right now. I was like, Hey, How would you like me to draw this dog for your interior? And she’s just like, well, here’s some descriptions of him, but honestly, do whatever you want. And I was like, okay, I love that. I just like little bit of freedom is nice, but I also wanna make sure that it’s exactly what the author had in mind and communication is real big.

So when me and the author are just messaging back and forth, just nerding out over sketches, it’s so much fun. I enjoy it so much. 

BETH BARANY: That’s so great. Oh, I love it. 

[20:29] Write the Future and Farewell 

As we wrap up this interview today, I wanted to ask you a question that I like to ask all my guests, which is, when you hear how to write the future, what does that bring up for you?

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: To me, it brings up, changing the norms, taking genres and changing them up a little. Because from personal experience, some of my favorite genres, romantasy for example, but I wanna see something a little more. Something a little different, but still in the same genre. So I think how to the future is thinking of unique ways to I wouldn’t say reinvent the genre, but make it your own. Just make it something that that you really love. 

BETH BARANY: Yeah. I love it. Oh, I love it so much.

And just to remind everyone where they can find you on the socials, on your website, what’s your tag? What’s your website? 

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: So my website is www.AnnaLeitensdorfer.com. And on my socials, I am on Instagram, TikTok and Threads mainly. I do have an X, but I mainly post to the other three. My tag is AT (@) all lowercase valkyrie_hero.

BETH BARANY: Fabulous. I love it. I love it. I love it. Well, thank you Anna. And everyone, be sure to check out Anna’s work on the socials on your website. Also, Anna writes for our blog where she goes into great depth on how to work with Illustrator, and other awesome tips for authors and working with illustrators.

So thanks again, Anna, for coming on to How To Write the Future. I so, so appreciate it. Everyone. That’s it for this week. 

ANNA LEITENSDORFER: Thank you so much for having me. 

BETH BARANY: Write long and prosper. Alright, that’s a wrap.​ 

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ABOUT BETH BARANY

Beth Barany is an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. They help novelists write, revise, and publish stories that matter—blending practical craft guidance with a big-picture commitment to imagination, meaning, and possibility. 

Learn more about Beth Barany at these sites: 

Author site /  Coaching site / School of Fiction / Writer’s Fun Zone blog

CONNECT 

Contact Beth: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/podcast/#tve-jump-185b4422580

Email: beth@bethbarany.com

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CREDITS 

• EDITED WITH DESCRIPT: https://www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA (Refer-a-Friend link)
• MUSIC CREDITS : Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/fuzz-buzz License code: UMMKDRL02DFGKJ0L. “Fuzz buzz” by Soundroll. Commercial license: https://musicvine.com/track/soundroll/fuzz-buzz.
• DISTRIBUTED BY BUZZSPROUT: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1994465 (Refer-a-Friend link)
• SHOW PRODUCTION BY Beth Barany
• SHOW CO-PRODUCTION + NOTES by Kerry-Ann McDade

c 2025 BETH BARANY

https://bethbarany.com/

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The post How To Find the Right Illustrator for You with Anna Leitensdorfer appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

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“Community helps me be a better artist. It’s imperative to be able to ping pong ideas off other creatives & makers. There’s also a social energy that comes about when artists get together in a room together. Ideas begin to flourish and it’s a remarkable thing.” — Jeff Golenski, A photographer for JetPack.

Artists Need Other Artists

I searched through my library to find examples of creative communities and after collecting a dangerously high stack of books, realized there are few artists who did not belong to an artistic community.

From the pre-Raphaelites to the Impressionists to the Surrealists to the women of New York City’s 9th Street to the Beats to you, artists need each other.

We need to discuss our art with people who understand the language.

We need inspiration and helpful criticism.

We long for support and feedback. 

We need to know we are not crazy.

We need our friends.

Lady Gregory and the Irish Renaissance

Lady Gregory (1852 – 1932), married an English Lord but was a life-long resident of Ireland.

She not only was devoted to preserving the indigenous Celtic language but she also headed and supported the Irish Renaissance and was the founder and sustaining member of the Abby Theater specializing in Irish plays.

She supported WB Yeats, and helped him master the local dialects in his plays.

She defended JM Synge’s inflammatory The Playboy of the Western World (1907).

Lady Gregory researched, wrote, and produced her own plays, which were more popular than either Synge or Yeats (together).

More importantly, she nurtured and encouraged Irish artists in their efforts to return Irish history and traditions back to their own people.

Mabel Dodge Luhan’s Artistic Haven

Mabel Dodge Luhan (1879 – 1962) was born to be a salon hostess.

Her well-to-do family encouraged her to follow her bliss. 

She first concentrated on collecting art then advanced to collecting the artists themselves.

She retreated from the industrial north to New Mexico renovating and building out the Mabel Dodge Luhan House attracting both writers and visual artists like DH Lawrence, Willa Cather, Jean Toomer, Georgia O’Keefe, and Ansel Adams.

Luhan offered accommodations, and respite, but her job was Artist Muse.

She encouraged and at times, bullied her artist friends to create and be their best selves.

And they did.

The Bloomsbury Group

Finally released from catering to her overbearing father, painter Vanessa Stephen (1879 – 1961) started up evening salons in her home.

She essentially created what was even then called the Bloomsbury Group.

From her husband Clive to her sister Virginia Woolf, this group of friends gathered every week to talk, paint, organize shows, and inspire each other to do their best work.

Clive Bell, Vanessa’s husband was a formidable art critic and Roger Fry, Vanessa’s lover, was the first gallery owner to show the work of the Post Impressionists inspiring the art changing exhibit in New York City, The Armory Show (1913).

These infamous community members argued, fought, featured each other in novels and paintings, slept with each other’s partners and ultimately served as the Muse to improve their art and increase the opportunities to share their art with the world.

Many were wealthy enough to not care if the art sold or not, a very nice place to be.

Why Community Matters

Can you go it alone?

In the beginning when you are just getting your work together and figuring out your vision, yes.

But eventually, or even tomorrow, you’ll want and need a group, your people, your tribe.

Tribes are important.

Ezra Pound started, essentially, a Go Fund Me campaign to raise enough money so his friend TS Eliot could quit his bank job and write poetry full time (Eliot declined the help).

Lady Gregory’s lover, John Quinn, defended Margaret Anderson and Jane Heap during their 1921 obscenity trial in NYC.

The work?

Ulysses, which Sylvia Beach took on and published in Paris in 1922.

Creative Communities Through History

Artists are famous or infamous for shocking their staid community.

Lady Gregory shocked audiences by accident but some of her playwrights did it on purpose and she stayed with them.

Members of the Bloomsbury group shocked on purpose, as did the Beat Poets.

In post-war Paris, women like Gertrude Stein and Sylvia Beach fled US Prohibition and cramped ideas about gender to find their own loves and lives in the City of Light.

When artists move into an affordable town or urban neighborhood, they immediately upgrade and improve the space.

The city of Detroit even offered artists the chance to live in abandoned houses rent free.

The artist need only agree to contribute art to the community.

To date, several homes have been restored, and the program, though small, is lauded for its creative approach to neighborhood revitalization.

Research on Creativity and Collaboration

In their article Collaboration and Creativity: The Small World Problem, authors Brian Uzzi and Jarrett Spiro commented, “ Many of history’s great creators — such as Beethoven, Marie Curie, the Beatles, and Maya Angelou — were involved in creative networks in which members critiqued, encouraged and collaborated on each other’s projects.”

Building Community Around a Project

A big project will often create its own community.

A friend is writing a play on a forgotten philosopher, she is also writing the annotations and history of the play.

She is contacting theaters and spaces to bring the play to life.

She meets with conference organizers and scholars.

She even met the philosopher’s granddaughter. 

The entire project has gathered a creative community around her.

She is self-publishing her play/annotated book because she may not have much time to waste with traditional outlets.

She is 87.

Start Small: One Friend Is Enough

Community can be as simple as one friend.

When Natalie Goldberg was writing her first book (Banana Rose concurrently with Writing Down the Bones) she scheduled meeting a friend at a local cafe at 3:00 PM.

Whether the friend actually showed up wasn’t the point.

At 3:00 PM, Natalie showed up and wrote for an hour.

It was her way of creating accountability, and getting out of the house. Invite one friend.

Encourage her to invite another friend — he invites a third.

Online Communities Count Too

Or meet online.

Many newsletters and missives I receive, invite readers to join the online writing group.

Members Zoom in, check in, then write together.

Artists must meet, they must exchange ideas.

Artists worked together out in the fields (haystacks, lakes, train stations).

For female artists, working with another artist was necessary, as working in public was risky.

If you are a musician and you play in a band or symphony you are lucky, there is no other choice but to literally play nicely with others.

Create the Community You Need

Creating your own artist community is worth the effort.

The group will support you and your art will thrive. 

More importantly, you will too.

Learn More

Look for my new book — Take Up Space — Art is Your Second Act.

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Catharine Bramkamp is a successful writing coach, Chief Storytelling Officer, former co-producer of Newbie Writers Podcast, and author of a dozen books including the Real Estate Diva Mysteries series, and The Future Girls series. She holds two degrees in English and is an adjunct university professor. After fracturing her wrist, she has figured out there is very little she is able to do with one hand tied behind her back. She delights in inspiring her readers.

The post Create Your Own Art Community by Catharine Bramkamp appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

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Discipline

I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with this word: “Discipline.”

I love it because it keeps you organized. 

It speaks to consistency.

It’s tied to results.

You see the fruits of your labor sooner when you’re “disciplined.”

But the hate part comes from how it’s used.

Because when people struggle with discipline, myself included, it’s often labeled as laziness.

And I’ve made that comparison, too.

When someone says they don’t have time to write or work on a creative project, the immediate thought is:

Well, maybe they don’t actually want it.

Maybe they’re just not disciplined enough.

And we hear the stories all the time — writers waking up at 4 or 5 a.m. to write before the day begins.

So, we know it can be done.

I wonder, could I be one of those people, writing as the morning glow breaks through the horizon?

Absolutely not.

And that used to feel like a failure.

The Myth of Discipline

But here’s what I’ve come to realize:

When you are a creative founder or entrepreneur, discipline is rarely the problem.

You are already doing a lot.

You are running a business.

You are managing clients.

You are showing up, delivering, and figuring things out as you go.

That is discipline.

So when the writing doesn’t happen, or the creative work gets pushed aside, it’s not because you lack discipline.

It’s because of something else.

It’s because of the noise.

The invisible noise.

The Invisible Noise

Think about everything a small business owner is holding at once:

• onboarding new clients
• sending emails
• creating content
• posting consistently
• scheduling
• managing inboxes
• organizing files and archives
• handling admin tasks
• sending invoices
• not to mention, planning and visioning new business projects

Just writing that list makes my heartbeat pick up a little.

That’s not laziness.

That’s load.

And all of it takes up mental bandwidth.

No wonder the creative work, the thing that made you start in the first place, starts to disappear into the background.

It becomes something you’ll get to later.

And later rarely comes.

These tasks are repetitive. 

Ongoing.

Never fully finished.

It starts to feel like Groundhog Day.

And slowly, the invisible noise builds.

Until one day, the thing you loved — the reason you started your creative business — feels heavy.

Or distant.

Or even… you feel resentful.

And then comes the word we all know too well:

Burnout

Creativity Needs Containment

Here’s the shift that changed everything for me:

Creative people don’t need more pressure.

They don’t need perfect routines.

And they definitely don’t need rigid systems that suffocate them.

They need a container.

They need a structure that feels safe.

A structure that holds things in place so their mind doesn’t have to.

Once you put that structure in place, you get:

• clear workflows
• fewer decisions
• defined processes
• protected time

Because when those things are in place, something important happens:

The noise quiets down.

And when the noise quiets down, creativity has somewhere to land.

Structure Is Not the Enemy

I know a lot of creatives resist systems.

Especially now that AI is entering the picture, there’s even more hesitation.

There’s a fear that structure, or systems, or tools will somehow take away from the work.

That they will make things too easy.

Or worse — less meaningful.

And to some extent, that concern is valid.

If you use AI to replace the creative process, then yes — you lose something.

You lose the friction.

The problem-solving.

The tension that often leads to something beautiful.

But that’s not how systems are meant to be used.

Systems are not here to create for you.

They are here to support you.

When used correctly, systems don’t kill creativity.

They protect it.

They take care of everything around the work — so you can return to the work itself.

What Protection Looks Like

Protecting your creative space doesn’t require perfection.

It requires intention.

It can look like:

• Creating simple, repeatable workflows
• Delineating clear client onboarding
• Setting up tools to capture meeting notes and summaries
• Initiating boundaries around your time
• Delegating what drains you
• Using tools to hold information so your mind doesn’t have to

Even something as simple as having everything in one place: your client details, notes, tasks, and all the moving pieces you’re trying to hold in your head, can create a sense of relief.

Because you are no longer carrying everything at once.

You are supported.

A Different Way to Think About Discipline

So maybe discipline isn’t where we start.

Maybe structure is.

Structure creates clarity.

Clarity reduces noise.

And reduced noise creates space.

And in that space — creativity can return.

Final Thought

Most creatives do not need more discipline.

They need more protection.

If this article resonated with you, I created a short Creative Capacity Check-In Assessment to help you identify where your business might be quietly draining your creative energy — and where structure could support you instead.

***

About The Author

Iman Llompart is a Creative Systems & Delegation Strategist who helps writers, book coaches, and creative founders protect their creative capacity by building the structure around their work — through workflows, client systems, and operational clarity.

Take her Creative Capacity Check-In Assessment to identify where your business may be quietly draining your creative energy.

Instagram @imanllompart • Instagram photos and videos

The post Protecting the Creative Life: The Fragility of the Creative Space by Iman Llompart appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

Turn Your Wish Into Story Fuel with Brownell Landrum 

***

“I researched over 70 different scientists. And so it was really, really fun to go into that exploration of what are the sciences of wishing.” – Brownell Landrum

Do you know what sciences we use in making a wish? When blowing out the candles become more than a birthday moment?
In this captivating How To Write the Future podcast episode, titled “Turn Your Wish Into Story Fuel with Brownell Landrum” host Beth Barany interviews storyteller and inventor Brownell Landrum where together they discuss Brownell’s novel where she shares the science exploration behind making a wish and how she researched over 70 scientists calling it a “cosmic whack-a-mole.”

Platforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube

RESOURCES

JOIN: For fiction writers! You’ve finished your first draft! Congrats! Now what?

Join the Future-Ready Writer membership and get premium weekly lessons and a monthly Q&A on Zoom. Subscribe: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061/subscribe

FREE: Sign up here to get your World Building Workbook for Fiction Writers

Overwhelmed by world-building for your sci-fi/fantasy novel? Use these prompts to brainstorm your story’s world: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/world-building-resources/

SHOP**: Sci‑Fi & Fantasy 24 Writing Prompts:** https://ko-fi.com/s/4ac9160a74

Want to be interviewed on the podcast? => Email us!

FOR CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSIONALS – BUILD YOUR BUSINESS SERVING WRITERS

Sign up to be notified when our training opens and get a short Creative Business Style Quiz to help you create success.

https://bethbarany.com/apprenticeship/

Support our work for creatives!

Buy me a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany

GET SUPPORT FOR YOUR FICTION WRITING BY A NOVELIST AND WRITING TEACHER AND COACH

Schedule an exploratory call here and see if Beth can support you today: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/discovery-call/

About the How To Write the Future podcast 

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

This podcast is for you if you have questions like:

– How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?

– How do I figure out what’s not working if my story feels flat?

– How do I make my story more interesting and alive?

This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

ABOUT BROWNELL LANDRUM

Brownell Landrum is a storyteller, speaker, inventor, and change catalyst. She’s the author of over a dozen books, including The Art & Science of Wishing and the upcoming The Art & Science of Wishing at Work. She got curious about the sciences involved in wishing while writing a novel entitled A Love Story to The Universe. Brownell combines her corporate and entrepreneurial background and logical, business-oriented skills with a compelling storytelling style. The motto for her stories is “Lose yourself in the fiction… Find yourself in the truth.”

Site: https://brownelllandrum.com/

Here’s the link to Chapter 1 of the Art & Science of Wishing

https://dl.bookfunnel.com/qfhl9a3m8v

Link to Part 1 of A Love Story to the Universe

https://dl.bookfunnel.com/a4s6x8lwk5

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brownell.landrum.author

X: https://x.com/BrownellLandrum

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brownelllandrum/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@brownell.landrum

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@brownell.landrum

Transcript for Turn Your Wish Into Story Fuel with Brownell Landrum 

Welcome and Premise 

BETH BARANY: Welcome to How to Write the Future Podcast. I’m your host, Beth Barany. I am an award-winning science fiction and fantasy novelist and a book coach for science fiction and fantasy writers. I run this podcast because I love talking to people about wonderful new ideas, and my whole premise here is about how can we bring our new visions of how we could be in the world and with each other into our story. So I have a special guest with us today. I’m very excited to introduce you to her, and we’re gonna have a conversation that I’m sure is gonna be wide ranging and full of interesting, fun things. I would like to introduce you to Brownell Landrum. Brownell, please introduce yourself and, and welcome to How to Write the Future.

[00:43] Meet Brownell Landrum 

BROWNELL LANDRUM: I’m excited to be here. I, I, I love your show and I love this whole realm. So I, obviously, I’m a writer. I write fiction and nonfiction and, and so the latest thing is I like the idea of how can fiction, which I think is part of what your message really is, is you’re writing the future. Can you write something that’s fiction that actually manifests in the future, in reality, right? And helps us envision another future. And so, and that. Kind of what I did. So I’ve written, I get into, my novels are kind of in the realm of, kind of in a metaphysical kind of realm. So like, I came up with the trilogy, a little over a year, a year and a half ago.

That’s this epic reincarnation, mystery and love story about a famous couple from history who’s brought back today to fulfill a prophecy, you know, that kind of big, epic adventure. And then I have a, another book that I came out with after that that’s semi autobiographical that I’m sure you’re gonna ask me about.

And then I have a nonfiction book that’s new, so I cover a lot of ground.

BETH BARANY: That’s so wonderful. 

[01:38] From Novel to Wishing Science 

And let’s talk about a semi autobiographical novel called how The Art and Science of Wishing, is that the right title? 

BROWNELL LANDRUM: Actually the novel’s called A Love Story to the Universe, and then that spun off on a nonfiction book that’s called The Art and Science of Wishing. So that’s, that’s kind of how it all worked, is like, and, and you’ve probably been there. That, you know, I was writing this book and I was writing it kind of in this fantasy world of what I call upstairs, you know, and these guides that are up in this other realm and they’re looking at these humans going what are y’all doing?

And how do we get, how do we corral these humans that are doing these crazy things? And so I was writing this book, and, and that’s a whole nother thing that I can get into as far as if you wanna know more about how that story. And then, but I, it’s written in sort of four parts. And the fourth part got into, the, I was creating this realm of wishes and wishing, and I had these wish fairies that were, you know, seeking out wishes and how do you sort wishes.

And they had this huge realm, I called it Astraya. And like, and they, so they go find wishes and then figure out who deser, you know, where they go and, you know, the whole world of wishes and wishing. And then, and one thing that’s so interesting about science fiction, right? Is like, there’s science and then there’s fiction.

Well, I kind of, I kind of bridged that gap, in a, in a unique way, I think is, so I was doing world building, right? And, you know, I’ve seen your show, when you’re talking about the world building and how you have to make some decisions about what’s your world. And I’m having to decide what’s the difference between a wish, a prayer and a goal, you know?

And so I’m, I’m getting my brain on this topic, and then while I’m writing this, I am, sometimes I’m kind of weird and I listen to science lectures to help me fall asleep. So when I can’t fall asleep, I listen to science lectures. 

[03:18] Researching Wishing Sciences 

And, one night I was listening to a lecture on neuroplasticity, and it made me wonder, I was like, wait a minute.

Is there science in wishing? And that led me into this huge, like, I call it a game of cosmic whack-a-mole ’cause these sciences just kept popping up everywhere. and that led me to write The Art and Science of Wishing, which is, nonfiction. And I researched over 70 different scientists. And so it was really, really fun to go into that exploration of what are the sciences and wishing.

And, did you know that every time you make a wish you engage over a dozen different sciences?

BETH BARANY: I did not know that. So are, is it because we’re using all different parts of our brain and biology and physics and chemistry?

BROWNELL LANDRUM: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. There’s so many different anthropology, right? With, with rituals, because usually ritual wishing comes around a ritual, whether it’s blowing out candles on a birthday cake or, you know, seeing a time on the clock or something like that. So it just got really, really fun looking at the different sciences, and that’s what led me to, to write the. It’s kind of like, you know, the, the, if you look at some of the episodes like of the Simpsons and then they predicted things that happened in the future, you’re like, this, this, this idea of wishes. And then I was like, wait a minute. How do we, how do I learn from that? How do I apply the science to that? And then how do I bring that into the world to create a better future? Right? So that ties into your whole theme is like, because the theme of my novels is Lose yourself in the fiction. Find yourself in the truth.

BETH BARANY: That’s beautiful.

[04:48] Testing Wishes in Real Life 

As you were working on your nonfiction book, did you notice this operating in your own life? Or did you make some experiments on yourself around wishing and then go, oh, look, look what I manifested, or any kind of things like that?

BROWNELL LANDRUM: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, because the way I look at, it’s like I’m very clear, I’m a storyteller, not a scientist, right? And so, and when I meet people that are scientists or people who are listening, that might be scientists, I’m like, I respect you. If you got questions or concerns or improvements or any, you know, corrections or anything like that, I’m, I’m all ears.

And and so I feel like, like I, maybe I’m more like one or two steps ahead of most people because I’ve done the research, but I’m still kind of learning as I’m going through this. And when I was first writing it, like I said, the the fiction book, the A Love Story to the Universe, I was making wishes myself and I was like, wait a minute, this is an unusual way to make a wish.

Is that, what’s the impact? And it led to this kind of question of what would happen if people stopped wishing. You know? And, and that’s that kind of the fantasy world, right? Is that there’s a crisis on earth where the main character stops wishing as she, she flips the script on wishing, and then all of a sudden there’s chaos upstairs because what would happen, and it’s happened before in history. And so they have kind of these experiences where, you know, there could be a whole system shut down.

And and so that’s kind of the. Jumping off point is what would happen if we, if we lost it? And then, and so that was part of the exploration. And then the next part of the exploration is what would happen if we started wishing together.

BETH BARANY: Which we kind of do in our collective rituals that we do, through religion, through sports, through song, through performances. You could even call all of those collective tools. 

BROWNELL LANDRUM: I talk about the four responses to a wish. And they’re “yes,” “no,” “wait,” or “something better.” And so when you ask like, am I experiencing this? Yes, there are things that I’m experiencing it and learning my own process of the sciences, to apply the sciences to the wish and watching my own world expand.

And one area I think you probably really like is, I, in fact, I’m getting ready to do a Ted Talk. And I’m super excited. 

[07:03] Writing Rituals and Brain Modes 

I’m gonna be talking about this and I’m gonna be talking about something called the Default Mode Network. And as a creative person, you know what that is, right? You know, when we get into this mindset and we’re trying to come up with something, it’s hard but when then we go wash the dishes or take a shower like Aaron Sorkin, you probably know that his thing is when he can’t, when he is in writing mode, he’ll take seven showers a day sometimes just to get into the default mode network. So it’s just fun stuff, you know, the science is fun.

BETH BARANY: I like washing the dishes and I also like walking. Walking is key to my writing ritual and then sometimes it’s self-talk. So walking and talking before I sit down to write.

BROWNELL LANDRUM: Right. And then sometimes if you’re writing and you get stuck, right, sometimes those little breaks, and what’s happening in the brain, it’s turning off one part of your brain and turning on another part and that’s what the default mode network is. So you think, oh, I’m zoning out. And especially if you start out with a wish.

So I think here’s a ritual for your writers is start out with the wish. What do you wish for this book? What do you wish for this story? What do you wish for your audience? What do you wish for your characters? And write from there. And then all of a sudden you’re gonna see it’s gonna turn on something called the reticular activating system, which is going to be looking for those stories.

And then the default mode network happens in a different level of the brain that says, okay, well, I’m not thinking about it is when the ideas come and then you have to capture ’em when they do, right?

Because sometimes they go and come and go and then we’re like those middle of the night ideas. We need to, you know, write down or voice record is what I use.

BETH BARANY: Yeah, I was gonna say voice recording is great. Writing them down. I have a lot of pencils and notepads by my bedside ’cause pens don’t always work. And a pencil will work even if you’re like lying on your back trying to write upside down. Yeah. And getting into the habit of capturing your ideas as they come.

That’s great. I love those questions. They are core to anytime I’m stuck in the editing process, I go right back to those questions in terms of: What is this story really about? What does my character want? What do I want as an author? And what do I want my my readers to experience? And what are they reaching for? So those are such great, great core questions. 

[09:10] Prolific Output and Writer Tips 

So understand, you’ve got the novel that led into the nonfiction book, and then you said there’s another, is it a fiction that you have after that?

BROWNELL LANDRUM: Before that, that’s the big epic reincarnation, mystery, and love story. It was a trilogy. I’ve written over a dozen books, so it’s like, well, which one? ‘Cause I do have a, a Tetralogy, which is four books of a more like a love story, but it’s, it’s a metaphysical, you know, going into past lives, and then the fantasy of this, of that.

And then the most recent one it’s called We Meet Again and it’s a trilogy. And then who knows what’s next. 

I’ve written a bunch of screenplays. The couple of screenplays that I’m, I’m halfway in the process of writing. One’s a, a young adult, kind of adventure kind of thing and it gets, you know, it all gets into the mystical and metaphysical and things like that. So it’s, it’s fun.

BETH BARANY: I love how creative you are too in working on scripts.

[09:57] Whats Next and Free Resources 

So when you are, uh. and about in the world. Do you offer any goodies or freebies or anything that people can go, Ooh, I want that. So people, can sign up for, do you have a newsletter people can sign up for?

BROWNELL LANDRUM: Yeah, I’ve got, you can read the, the, the A Love Story to the Universe is written in four parts. So the first part, I can give to your listeners, for free, and if you wanna read the first chapter of The Art and Science of Wishing, I can also offer that. So.

BETH BARANY: Oh wonderful. Yeah, be sure to give me the link for that. So we’ll be putting that everyone in the show notes and people can find you @brownelllandrum.com. Right?

BROWNELL LANDRUM: That’s right. I’m the only Brownell Landrum, so I’m on all the social media and I’m gonna be building my YouTube channel. Look for that because we’re gonna be having some fun things with what I call cosmic wishes. And, it’s gonna be really, really cool. So, please, please stay tuned back.

[00:10:46] Writing the Future Closing

BETH BARANY: I love that. Well, as we finish up, I love to ask my guests this question outta the blue, but not so much, which is when you think of how to write the future, what does that make you think of?

BROWNELL LANDRUM: It makes me feel like there’s a responsibility to deliver something that has enough meaning and purpose. Like I talk about cosmic wishing needs to be peaceful, positive, and purposeful. And if it’s purposeful, then you can actually guide people toward a better future and more positive future.

BETH BARANY: I love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much Brownell, for coming on today at How to Write the Future Podcast. And I just wanna say to everyone here, write long and prosper. Bye. 

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here: 

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061 

Need instructions on how to leave a review? Go here.

***

Support our work for creatives: leave a tip: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany 

***

ABOUT BETH BARANY 

Beth Barany is an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. They help novelists write, revise, and publish stories that matter—blending practical craft guidance with a big-picture commitment to imagination, meaning, and possibility. 

Learn more about Beth Barany at these sites: 

Author site /  Coaching site / School of Fiction / Writer’s Fun Zone blog

CONNECT 

Contact Beth: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/podcast/#tve-jump-185b4422580

Email: beth@bethbarany.com

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbarany/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/bethbarany/

TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@bethbarany/

FB: https://www.facebook.com/bethbarany

X: https://twitter.com/BethBarany

CREDITS 

• EDITED WITH DESCRIPT:  https://www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA (Refer-a-Friend link)(Refer-a-Friend link)
• MUSIC CREDITS : Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/fuzz-buzz License code: UMMKDRL02DFGKJ0L. “Fuzz buzz” by Soundroll. Commercial license: https://musicvine.com/track/soundroll/fuzz-buzz.
• DISTRIBUTED BY BUZZSPROUT: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1994465 (Refer-a-Friend link)
• SHOW PRODUCTION BY Beth Barany
• SHOW CO-PRODUCTION + NOTES by Kerry-Ann McDade

c 2025 BETH BARANY

https://bethbarany.com/

For more “How To Write the Future” episodes, go here.

If you’d like to invite Beth onto your podcast, drop her a note here.

Like the work we do? Tip us! https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany

The post Turn Your Wish Into Story Fuel with Brownell Landrum appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

Edit Your Novel Checklist: First Read, No Edits

***

“Read through the checklist, put it in your mind, and let it just float there. Don’t be so restrictive about it. You can always revisit it whenever you want.” – Beth Barany

In this episode of How To Write The Future, Beth Barany walks you through the first step of revision: the first read-through, with no editing.

You’ll learn how to use the Edit Your Novel Checklist as a simple guide for reading your draft like a reader, so you can spot what’s working, what’s unclear, and what you want to revise next.

Titled “Edit Your Novel Checklist: First Read, No Edits,” this episode helps you choose the best way to read your manuscript, decide how much distance you need from the draft, and capture observations without getting pulled into fixing sentences too soon.

Be sure to get your Edit Your Novel Checklist here: https://bethbarany.com/eyncklst.

Platforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube

RESOURCES 

JOIN: For fiction writers! You’ve finished your first draft! Congrats! Now what?

Join the Future-Ready Writer membership and get premium weekly lessons and a monthly Q&A on Zoom. Subscribe: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061/subscribe

FREE: Sign up here to get your World Building Workbook for Fiction Writers

Overwhelmed by world-building for your sci-fi/fantasy novel? Use these prompts to brainstorm your story’s world: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/world-building-resources/

SHOP**: Sci‑Fi & Fantasy 24 Writing Prompts:** https://ko-fi.com/s/4ac9160a74

Want to be interviewed on the podcast? => Email us!

FOR CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSIONALS – BUILD YOUR BUSINESS SERVING WRITERS

Sign up to be notified when our training opens and get a short Creative Business Style Quiz to help you create success.

https://bethbarany.com/apprenticeship/

Support our work for creatives!

Buy me a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany

GET SOME FREE WRITING COACHING LIVE ON THE PODCAST

Sign up for the 30-minute Story Success Clinic with Beth Barany: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/story-success-clinic/

GET SUPPORT FOR YOUR FICTION WRITING BY A NOVELIST AND WRITING TEACHER AND COACH

Schedule an exploratory call here and see if Beth can support you today: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/discovery-call/

About the How To Write the Future podcast

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

This podcast is for you if you have questions like:

– How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?

– How do I figure out what’s not working if my story feels flat?

– How do I make my story more interesting and alive?

This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

Transcript for Edit Your Novel Checklist: First Read, No Edits 

Introduction 

BETH BARANY: Hey, everyone. Welcome to How to Write the Future podcast. I’m your host, Beth Barany, and this is a special episode because this is an episode that I released for my premium members of the Edit the Future Sci-Fi/Fantasy Revision Lab, and I realized, you know what? I want everyone to have this because I invite all of you to come and do the Edit Your Novel checklist, so everyone needs to have the explainer.

So I recorded this explainer for the membership, but I also have it for you here. 

If you’re curious about joining the Edit the Future Sci-Fi/Fantasy Revision Lab, or as one of my members called it, Edit Lab, be sure to sign up for the checklist, and you’ll learn all about it.

So that’s all I’m gonna say here. Enjoy the walkthrough through the checklist. Be sure to sign up to get your own so you can stop the confusion and start with the clarity. And have a step-by-step process for editing your novel. Enjoy. 

[01:03] Getting the Checklist 

Today I am going to go through the Edit Your Novel Checklist to walk you through it.

So if you don’t already have the checklist, be sure to get it at edit your novel checklist.com. 

Alright, so once you sign up for the edit your novel checklist, you’ll be jumped over to a Google Doc that you can copy and put on your Google Drive. Download. Make it your own.

It’s editable, so you can, of course, make any changes that you want to the document. This is a working, living document, so use it, even print it out and, and put it with your writing materials. Put it on the wall. This is for you to use. 

[01:46] First Read No Editing

So number one, you want to decide how you wanna read your manuscript.

The edit your novel checklist is designed to be a reference document as you do your very first read through of your first draft. Your rough draft. Your discovery draft, however you wanna call it. And if you’ve never done this before, or even if you have, take a moment and think about how you wanna read through your manuscript.

The point is not to make any edits. The point is to read it as a reader, meaning you might need some distance from the time you wrote it, a week, a month, a year. Really, there’s no hard and fast rule on how much distance you need from your manuscript. But what I’ve noticed is that writers need like a cooling-off period, so that they can read their whole manuscript the way a reader would.

That’s the goal. You wanna have some distance, and you wanna have some curiosity. Oh, what is this thing I wrote?

Some technical things that can help you do that is you can either print it out so it’s on paper, or you could send it to your Kindle, iPad or another reading device, so it feels like you’re reading it like a reader would. Put on a tablet or put it on a different kind of computer screen or in a different kind of font.

There are some people I know who will have Microsoft Word read the manuscript to them. That’s an option as well. Whatever works for you. So choose how you want to read through your manuscript. Great. 

Once you have decided that, what I recommend is number one: read through this checklist. It’s short. It’s like four pages long, all totalled — three pages of checklist, one page of instruction.

Read through the checklist, put it in your mind, and let it just float there. Don’t be restrictive about it. You can always revisit it whenever you want.

Your goal in this read-through is to pay attention to whatever jumps out at you as incorrect. Maybe it makes you uncomfortable for some reason. Maybe you find your attention waning, moving away, or you’re like, ugh, lemme check email. Let me play my games. Those are points to just notice. Put a question mark on the manuscript. Put a check mark. Put a sticky note, but you’re not editing. Please do not edit your manuscript right now.

You’re just reading it through so you can get a lay of the land; so you can get a big picture; so you can notice maybe the things that you don’t like, but also the things that you do like. 

[04:13] Reading Methods and Notes 

So just real quick, when I go through my manuscript for the first time, I like to put it onto my Kindle. It’s a little black and white, gray-scale Kindle, and that way, it’s not easy to make fixes. So I’m not tempted to make fixes, and I just make mental notes of what I wanna change. Granted, I’ve been doing this a long time, but I’ll even write them down in my notebook or, in Scrivener, where I keep all my story notes.

Ezra, my co-teacher and husband, and also a writer, he likes to print out the manuscript. He likes to write in the margins, circle things, and sometimes he will put the manuscript on his iPad and read it aloud to himself to find typos, clunky sentences. He does that, actually, when he is really certain the manuscript is pretty clean.

So you don’t have to stick to one way of reading through your manuscript. You can change it up.

[05:05] Know Your Genre

Third piece of preparation, you need to know your genre. Just make your best guess. I’m inviting in people who are science fiction and fantasy writers. We can also call that speculative fiction, right? That’s the broad umbrella term. And inside of that lives science fiction, lives fantasy, lives horror, lives science fiction romance, fantasy adventure romance.

Let’s see. Spicy romantic fantasy, all kinds of things, right? 

So you decide what is your genre for now, make your best guess. Maybe it’s a mashup. Awesome, I love that. And just write it down on the checklist, just so you can keep it in mind, because I’m gonna be asking you questions for as you go through your checklist.

So remember, at this stage, do not edit your work. Just make notes in the margins or on sticky notes or in Scrivener, or on a notepad. Use track changes, although that’s kind of starting to push it. Uh, but if that is fun for you and easy, do that. We’re looking for fun. We’re looking for easy, and we’re looking for you to read your book as a reader, so as much as possible. So whatever supports that. Because I repeat, you’re not making changes or fixes or rewrites, none of that. You’re just reading to notice strengths and weaknesses, what’s working and what’s not working. 

That’s your job in this read-through.

And this big picture evaluation will help you get, get a big picture of how your manuscript is doing. 

[06:35] Checklist Overview 

So there’s three main parts of this checklist. The first part is about the story, the plot, what happens. 

The second part is about character. 

And the third, I call proofing, but it’s not like final proofing. It’s just all the dibby dabby things, grammar, punctuation, that kind of thing, because most likely you’re gonna notice those things in this first read through. So I have made a checklist section for that as well. 

[07:04] Story and Plot Checks

So let’s start at the top with story and plot.

Emotional Pacing: Does the story move at the right pace for the emotions you want to convey? Or does it move too slowly or too quickly?

Plot Pacing: Based on your genre, how is the balance of dialogue and action?

Story Logic: Are there gaps in story logic or in the actions of the characters? Can you follow the flow of action from one moment to the next? 

Act Structure: Act 1, 2, 3, etcetera. Does your story have a compelling beginning, rising action, complications? 

And then closing resolution as appropriate for your genre. Does it start in the right place? Have enough action in the middle, have a satisfying ending?

Scenes: Do your individual scenes start and end at the best point of interest for you? Does each scene have a compelling beginning, rising action and complications, and closing resolution? 

And then Reader Expectations: Do you meet reader expectations for your genre for plot and pacing? Do you surprise the reader and yet fit the genre?

[08:11] Character Checks 

Alright. 

Our second section on character: Goal, Motivation, Conflict, or GMC. Do your characters have clear goals? Clear reasons, motivation for their actions, and goals. Do they have conflict, preventing them from reaching their goals?

Point of View: Do you stay in one character’s point of view per scene?

Setting: Is the setting conveyed from the point of view character? Is the information shared relevant to the story’s tone and moment? 

Dialogue: Does the dialogue sound different for each character? And some more questions on dialogue. Does the dialogue move the action forward or enhance character, or is it appropriate for the pacing of the moment, such as to lighten the mood, for example?

Consistency: Does the character stay in character? 

And lastly, for this section, Readers’ Expectations: Do your characters behave as your readers expect they would for your genre?

[09:14] Proofing Checks 

And then the third section. 

Proofing / Grammar: Do you keep the story in the tense you’ve chosen? 

Punctuation: Is your punctuation correct and consistent, given your artistic purposes and genre conventions? 

Word usage: Are you using specific nouns and verbs versus vague nouns and verbs? Are you using emotionally charged adjectives as appropriate for your genre? 

Spelling: Is your spelling correct and consistent for your artistic purposes and genre conventions? 

Metaphor: Do you use metaphor and simile to convey emotion rooted in the point of view of the character?

And lastly, on the checklist, Reader Expectations: Is your book clear of errors in a way that makes the reading easy and clear for readers of your genre?

So that is the Edit Your Novel Checklist.

Hope you found it helpful. Be sure to grab your own checklist at EditYourNovelChecklist.com. 

[10:13] Scoring and Next Steps

Once you have gone through your manuscript and read the entire thing and made notes using the Edit Your Novel Checklist, now it’s time to score all the elements.

Simply on a scale from one to five, one being needs the least work and five being needs the most work. Go through every element on your checklist and give it a number.

Just number it from one to five, and you can do granularly on every single element in the three sections. The story and plot section, the character section, and the proofing section. 

And once you’re done. If you feel like it’s fun to do, go ahead and add up your score. That will give you an overall sense of how much work you need to do.

Don’t let this number intimidate you. This is just information, just helping you understand where you feel you are in your manuscript. 

[11:11] Wrap Up and Farewell

Alright, that’s it for this week, everyone. 

Happy editing, and connect with you in the next episode. 

Write long and prosper. 

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here: 

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ABOUT BETH BARANY 

Beth Barany is an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. They help novelists write, revise, and publish stories that matter—blending practical craft guidance with a big-picture commitment to imagination, meaning, and possibility. 

Learn more about Beth Barany at these sites: 

Author site /  Coaching site / School of Fiction / Writer’s Fun Zone blog

CONNECT 

Contact Beth: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/podcast/#tve-jump-185b4422580

Email: beth@bethbarany.com

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CREDITS

• EDITED WITH DESCRIPT: https://www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA (Refer-a-Friend link)
• MUSIC CREDITS : Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/fuzz-buzz License code: UMMKDRL02DFGKJ0L. “Fuzz buzz” by Soundroll. Commercial license: https://musicvine.com/track/soundroll/fuzz-buzz.
• DISTRIBUTED BY BUZZSPROUT: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1994465 (Refer-a-Friend link)
• SHOW PRODUCTION BY Beth Barany
• SHOW CO-PRODUCTION + NOTES by Kerry-Ann McDade

c 2025 BETH BARANY

https://bethbarany.com/

For more “How To Write the Future” episodes, go here.

If you’d like to invite Beth onto your podcast, drop her a note here.

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The post Edit Your Novel Checklist: First Read, No Edits appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

AI Content Licensing for Authors: Julie Trelstad

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“Amlet AI creates a tool that allows authors to make it known to machine to developers that their work can be licensed and is available and that they expect to be compensated.” – Julie Trelstad

In this How To Write the Future podcast episode, titled “AI Content Licensing for Authors: Julie Trelstad,” host Beth Barany interviews publishing professional, Julie Trelstad. Julie shares her publishing journey, what AI content licensing is, and how authors and publishers can protect themselves against copyright or AI theft by using the newly created Amlet AI.

Amlet AI is a platform where authors can register books with machine‑readable metadata to enable licensing, compensation, and control over AI training use; it covers European deadlines, opt‑out options, ISCC standards, metadata enrichment.

Platforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube

RESOURCES

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Writing Tool: https://paperbacksandpixels.com/book-description-autopsy

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About the How To Write the Future podcast

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

This podcast is for you if you have questions like:

– How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?

– How do I figure out what’s not working if my story feels flat?

– How do I make my story more interesting and alive?

This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

ABOUT JULIE TRELSTAD 

Julie Trelstad is the founder of Paperbacks & Pixels, where she coaches authors on building publishing platforms with AI as a collaborator. She has been in publishing since 1989. Originally trained as an architect at Columbia and Parsons, she ran the Architectural Graphic Standards franchise at John Wiley & Sons, acquired Sarah Susanka’s The Not-So-Big House at The Taunton Press, served as Director of Digital Rights at Writers House, and led US Publishing at StreetLib. She is also Head of US Publishing at Amlet AI, an AI rights registry helping authors and publishers participate in AI licensing on fair terms.

https://paperbacksandpixels.com

Run a free AI-driven autopsy on your book description with resuscitation instructions. paperbacksandpixels.com/book-description-autopsy

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paperbacksnpixels

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julietrelstad

Transcript for episode 206 – AI Content Licensing for Authors: Julie Trelstad

Welcome and Introductions

BETH BARANY: Hi everyone. Welcome to How to Write the Future Podcast. I’m your host, Beth Barany. I am very excited to have a special guest with me today, Julie Trelstad.

Julie, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you to our show?

[00:16] Julie’s Publishing Journey

JULIE TRELSTAD: Yeah, I have been a book publishing person for my entire career. But I was an Acquisitions Editor, buying architecture books for publishers like Reader’s Digest and John Wiley and Sons and Sterling, which was part of Barnes and Noble before I went off and started a publishing company.

And then Borders went under with my whole publishing company. And since then I’ve been working in the digital space with authors and publishing companies, helping authors self-publish, helping them build platforms, and also helping people like literary agents and, and digital publishers, run their businesses.

BETH BARANY: So really helping people on the backend of their business.

JULIE TRELSTAD: Exactly.

[00:54] What AI Content Licensing Means

BETH BARANY: So I understand that you are also in the AI content licensing space.

JULIE TRELSTAD: Yes.

BETH BARANY: Very interesting. Can you tell us about that? I have not even dabbled into that. I mean, I’ve heard about it, but I don’t know anything about it.

JULIE TRELSTAD: It is brand new. It truly is. The whole concept between AI licensing around AI licensing is that AI reads a heck of a lot of books. And what happened in the last couple of years, I’m sure you’ve heard a lot about, Anthropic, Claude OpenAI, they all built their models, trained on novels. and fun fact these, no, Anthropic was around our, our actually OpenAI was around a long time before they actually launched it as a product. And it wasn’t until they started feeding it fiction that it began to be able to talk to people and have this conversational style that really became essential to the products.

But in order to do that, no publisher was gonna say, sure, you can feed my books to a robot. So, the developers ended up building these models based on big databases of pirated books and in the United States, that is against the law. In Europe, it’s really against the law because models aren’t even allowed to train on any copyrighted content without author compensation, which is something we can talk about in a bit.

So licensing on the long wind around that is a way for AI companies and developers to compensate authors for the very, very valuable human created content that is used to trade models or to do deep research or to, be used in the chat bot applications that are being built, by not just the big guys, but you know, thousands of developers or building applications and are using content to enrich these applications and authors need to be paid.

So Amlet AI creates a tool that allows authors to make it known to developers that their work can be licensed and is available and that they expect to be compensated.

[02:59] How Authors Register and Get Paid 

BETH BARANY: Oh, so what do I do? I’m an author. I have 12 novels out, five nonfiction books. Do I just say here Amlet, put my books into your database or do I have to pay them?

JULIE TRELSTAD: You can. So Amlet AI was created by the same people who have StreetLib Distribution. So one thing you can do as an independent author is put all of your books in StreetLib Distribution and that automatically gets you into the Amlet AI system.

The individual registration is free, but StreetLib Distribution has like a $300 2.99 one time setup fee, which is a lifetime license to use StreetLib. It also gives you global distribution, so that will get you into bookstores across Europe with your digital books. So there’s a lot of benefit for being in that, but the but, and there’s no per book cost. 

[03:49] Europe Deadline and Opt Out Choices

You can upload all 12 of your books and immediately be registered. And it’s a really good time to do it because in August, by August of next year anyone who has not registered their book in a machine readable way, and Amlet is the only one that I know of that is accessible to self-publishing Authors currently, will not be able to be compensated in Europe under their laws. So you actually have to register in a way that the European authorities can find you by August or you will miss out on all the European revenue that you could get, even if you’re an American.

I think sometime in August, 2026 is when you have to be registered.Everyone who’s distributing digital books in Europe. If the book is sold in Europe, and if you do not opt out, if you do not join a licensed registry, they’ll consider you like, oh, this content’s good to grab, and it will go uncompensated. If you don’t register, you will not be able to get compensation under the new law that’s taking effect this year.

And if you’re a larger publisher, StreetLib is, at no cost, at this moment bringing in databases but it’s like a bulk thing.

There will be a cost in the future that the model for Amlet is that we’ll take a percentage of the licensing revenue that you get in. So there is no cost at this moment to register your book.

BETH BARANY: And then StreetLib Distribution will put it into Amlet AI, which makes books available for engines to….

JULIE TRELSTAD: And the other thing it does in distribution, if say you’re using, StreetLib to get into Apple Books or Cobo or any other, the wide distribution and you can opt in or app, we may already be distributing there, it will send the signal to the retailer that that book is restricted and cannot be used for training from the retailer’s point of view either.

BETH BARANY: So you can register it, but decide, no, I don’t want my book used for licensing.

JULIE TRELSTAD: That is what everyone is doing right now,

BETH BARANY: Yeah.

JULIE TRELSTAD: Right? Because this whole set of like, how much are AI companies paying for a license? It’s all unsettled. 

BETH BARANY: Yeah. 

JULIE TRELSTAD: So, the default right now is everyone do not use it to train it but here I am and I’m available and if you wanna contact me to license this work, this is how you reach me. And it does it through a machine readable fingerprint of your book. The AI licensing that Amlet uses is actually based on the content of the book itself. So if somebody were to pirate your book or to use it without your permission, you would be able to compare your licensed book with their unlicensed book and have basis for a claim.

BETH BARANY: So it’s a way to put another layer of protection that a private company is doing. So this isn’t the copyright office, this isn’t the government. This is a private entity that would allow us to say, no I don’t want my books to be used for training data for the AI engines. Or, I do. And I am. I’m like, well, if they pay me a lot of money, I might consider it. So my default is no, but each will need to make their own decision. 

[06:42] ISCC Standards and Legal Landscape

Do you ever foresee the US government or other governments making it easier, to go in one direction or another or to have this all a national licensing board or something like that?

JULIE TRELSTAD: It would be amazing but what we’re really looking at right now, and, and this company, Amlet.ai, is based in Milan. It was founded in, in Europe. It was founded in response to the fact that in 2019, Europe did pass law that said that every bit of copyrighted material that’s brought into computer applications needs to be compensated. That’s not true in the US.

In the US it’s illegal, you can’t pirate books, but you can go to the Strand and scan it so the author doesn’t necessarily have to get compensated. So it’s a shade of gray. And so, this particular Amlet was built, in order to comply with that law, right?

So this law was passed, and then the AI companies are like, we have no way of knowing what content is licensable or not. And so actually, one of the founders, Titusz Pan, who’s in Germany, created something called the ISCC, which is the International Standard Content Code. 

Amlet then is built on top of that as very specifically for the book industry and very specifically for you to determine which rights you are giving or no rights at all to the AI companies. 

[08:01] Being Findable in AI Search

What’s really interesting, Beth, is right now in the last year all these AI bots have gotten, so sci-fi right? have gone out into the inter, into the internet and they are actually digesting and reading books and then recommending them. So like one of these bots can read a million books in a day, right? And it can hold thousands of them in its context.

And in the morning it can deliver to your email box a summary of all these books, or all of this wrapped up together or recommend a book. So if your book is set up and registered for this kind of environment where bots are reading books first before people, it puts you, you know, miles ahead of people who aren’t thinking about this yet.

BETH BARANY: Yeah, I mean, I’ve been seeing lots of emails coming, well, a few emails coming through from, from one of the companies that I follow How do you make your book marketing efforts, findable by the AI search engines.

JULIE TRELSTAD: Yeah. Yeah.

[08:56] Metadata and Book Description Tools

So like there are little things we can do, but, but then registering with the AI so that like with Amlet, there’s like what we call an open API, which is the way computers talk to each other. So these developers can easily find your book, and also find what it’s about, and you enter the metadata along with, with your Amlet.ai.

BETH BARANY: Yeah, it’d be interesting if there’s additional metadata now we need to add to our book descriptions. Or is it just the standard book description category, keyword tropes, comps. 

JULIE TRELSTAD: Yeah, exactly. But yeah, have those available, make them rich. definitely.

BETH BARANY: That’s great. I give my clients a metadata document template so they can build their metadata once they’re working on their editing, so that it’s much easier to have it on hand when they’re ready, you know, to publish. Yeah.

JULIE TRELSTAD: I love metadata. Yeah. Like one thing we’re working on in Amlet and StreetLib as well is to use AI to enrich the metadata. You know, to find more comps to, you know, review, to make sure that the, that the content in the book really matches what’s on the book page. You know, that’s a real problem actually.

And, and the, booksellers have gotten a lot more sophisticated. They’re using AI tools, right? And if they determine that what the content of your book doesn’t match what you say it is, that can really work against you.

BETH BARANY: Yeah, I mean, that is something that, I mean, I’m a big proponent for the creative needs to create and then use the AI tools to, adapt into other forms for marketing messages of all kinds, but you the creative, needs to sit down and be the one who does the creative work and work with other human beings to polish that thing up to a gem..

JULIE TRELSTAD: Agreed. Yeah.

I have a free tool on my website that’s based on this it’s a, it’s called the Book Description Autopsy. And you can, I actually, I’m working on it right now, but by the time this episode airs, it will be up and running. I fed it everything I know about making a good book description and, you can drop your book description in and it will tell you exactly what you need to do and if it is DOA or not.

BETH BARANY: Oh, that’s so great. I can’t wait to test that for you and to share it with everyone because what I’ve noticed is that there seems to be trends in how a book is marketed. Are you combining what you know with, from your history with all these AI tools and what they’re requiring?

[11:14] Positioning Tropes and Unique Pitch 

JULIE TRELSTAD: Definitely I have this one and I have another. My favorite one was I was an acquisitions editor, nonfiction acquisitions editor for a really long time. And like the one thing that I always had to do when I brought a book in is I had to prove that this book was just like last year’s book. That was the bestseller. Or you know, it has that like a solid comp or solid backlog of comps.

Yet it is unique in all the world. So I’ve created a very specialized AI tool that helps authors figure out their positioning and their unique pitch. Like you don’t wanna be like any other author. And I think that what, that’s what we’re seeing now is like comps are always like really important, but we’re looking at it and we’re like, okay, this one got tweaked.

It’s like this, but a little different. I, I don’t think that’s really anything new, but it’s certainly something that I’ve doubled down on this year in terms of what the author brand is. And making sure that people are super unique, yet always mindful of the environment that they live in with other comp books.

BETH BARANY: I love it. Well, I feel like we could keep going and we’ll definitely have to have more conversations, because I’m very curious about where these new tools of AI are taking us as writers. 

[12:26] Writing the Future Curveball

So I have a curve ball question for you that I like to give all my guests, which is when you hear how to write the future, what does that make you think of?

JULIE TRELSTAD: Well, I, you know, I write sci-fi too, and you know, I definitely will want to join– When I finish my draft, I’ll join your group.

I studied architecture and city planning before I got into publishing, and I’m still fascinated with that. And, my novels are always set in a world that is the future that I wanna see physically. Like it’s set in this place where the cars are gone and people walk everywhere and communities have been rearranged and changed and I have very interesting ideas about that just from my studies of city planning. And when I think of write the future, that’s what I like. You know, I want to write the future that I want to see in the world because I want people to think, oh, the world could be this way. That’s so cool.

BETH BARANY: I love it. I wanna read it. I wanna read it. 

[13:21] Where to Find Julie and Wrap Up

So, Julie, if people want to reach out to you in your latest endeavors, where, where’s the best place that they can go?

JULIE TRELSTAD: Yeah, PaperbacksandPixels.com is where you can come and you can find the Book Description Autopsy and learn about my services. There’s a sly little link to find out about my writing there. And then, if you want to get your book registered within Amlet for AI training, that’s Amlet.ai.

And you can go there and/or you can sign up at StreetLib, but there’s information about that over at paperbacks and pixels. Or you can find out more if you’re an independent, Indie, how exactly to register your book for the future.

BETH BARANY: Fabulous. Fabulous. Well, Julie, thank you so much for being on today. I really enjoyed our conversation. 

[14:02] Final Sign Off 

Alright everyone. That’s it for this week, Write Long and prosper. ​ 

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061 

Need instructions on how to leave a review? Go here.

***

Support our work for creatives: leave a tip: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany 

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ABOUT BETH BARANY

Beth Barany is an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. They help novelists write, revise, and publish stories that matter—blending practical craft guidance with a big-picture commitment to imagination, meaning, and possibility. 

Learn more about Beth Barany at these sites: 

Author site /  Coaching site / School of Fiction / Writer’s Fun Zone blog

CONNECT

Contact Beth: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/podcast/#tve-jump-185b4422580

Email: beth@bethbarany.com

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbarany/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/bethbarany/

TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@bethbarany/

FB: https://www.facebook.com/bethbarany

X: https://twitter.com/BethBarany

CREDITS 

• EDITED WITH DESCRIPT: https://www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA (Refer-a-Friend link)
• MUSIC CREDITS : Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/fuzz-buzz License code: UMMKDRL02DFGKJ0L. “Fuzz buzz” by Soundroll. Commercial license: https://musicvine.com/track/soundroll/fuzz-buzz.
• DISTRIBUTED BY BUZZSPROUT: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1994465 (Refer-a-Friend link)
• SHOW PRODUCTION BY Beth Barany
• SHOW CO-PRODUCTION + NOTES by Kerry-Ann McDade

c. 2026 BETH BARANY

https://bethbarany.com/

For more “How To Write the Future” episodes, go here.

If you’d like to invite Beth onto your podcast, drop her a note here.

Like the work we do? Tip us! https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany 

The post AI Content Licensing for Authors: Julie Trelstad appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

***

I recently made a guest appearance on a podcast about using AI in your writing (watch it here).

The discussion revolved around the dangers of using Large Language Models (LLMs), and in what circumstances AI can be useful and beneficial in your writing career.

It was a good conversation, and I thought a recap on my blog page would be beneficial.

The Dangers of AI-Generated Content

First, the dangers: AI-generated content cannot receive copyright protection.

(I covered this point in an earlier blog article on AI and copyrightability).

This means that if you asked an AI program to write your prose, you won’t have any exclusive rights to it.

And, because you can’t get copyright protection for AI-generated work, publishers are at best reluctant to publish a book with significant AI-generated content.

(The podcast episode was responding to a recent incident where a major publisher canceled an upcoming book launch, claiming the author didn’t disclose that the book was largely AI-generated.)

But does that mean you should treat AI like the plague and not let it get near your manuscript?

I think that’s throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

How AI Can Help Your Writing Career Instead of Hurting It

AI can be a very useful tool for writers; it just needs to be used properly.

Here are some ways you can safely use AI with your writing:

• Research. Gone are the days when writers had to travel to exotic lands, interview experts, or spend days in the library to make sure their book is factually accurate and realistic.

  AI programs are an excellent tool for data gathering, and this use won’t impact the future copyrightability of your work.

  (Just remember that AI programs should be a starting point, not an ending point. You still want to research and fact-check, but AI programs will give you some foundational knowledge and help you better target where and how to do a deeper dive.)

• Brainstorming. If you’re like me, you have a very limited number of people who are willing to listen to you refine your plot or characters for longer than maybe five minutes.

  If you want a sounding board, an AI program can be a great tool. It will “listen” and give feedback for as long as you want, without getting bored or demanding a change of subject.

  And its suggestions can help improve your story or characters.

  (Just remember that its feedback is the average of all the books and writing advice in its dataset, so while it can be useful, it won’t be original. Adding originality is your job.)

• Editing. AI programs make very good copy editors, and fixing typos or grammatical errors won’t affect the manuscript’s copyrightability.

  The fine line is when the editing software recommends a rephrase of a sentence – that’s a gray area that hasn’t been addressed by the powers that be.

  Minor tweaks are probably fine, complete rewrites are probably not, and we won’t know how much is too much until we get more guidance from Congress, the Copyright Office or the courts.

  (Just remember that AI software is not a substitute for a human editor; it just cleans things up enough that an editor can focus on the bigger issues.)

Final Takeaway

So, what’s the takeaway here?

Copyright protects creative expression, not facts or ideas, so as long as a human is providing the creativity and originality (i.e., writing the book themselves), AI programs can assist with the rest.

When in doubt, you can always talk to a lawyer to determine whether your use is safe.

Questions About AI and Copyright?

If you have questions about what AI can safely do for you or would like to discuss your use of AI programs, please email me at kaway@kawaylaw.com. And happy writing!

***

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Kelley Way was born and raised in Walnut Creek, California. She graduated from UC Davis with a B.A. in English, followed by a Juris Doctorate. Kelley is a member of the California Bar, and an aspiring writer of young adult fantasy novels. More information at kawaylaw.com.

The post What Can A Writer Do With AI? by Kelley Way appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

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Goal-Based Sci-Fi Research with Sue Burke

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“One thing I recommend is that if you’re really sure about something look it up cause you’re probably wrong.” – Sue Burke

In this How To Write the Future podcast episode, titled, “Goal-Based Sci-Fi Research With Sue Burke,” host Beth Barany talks to author and translator Sue Burke on the importance of goal-based research and how it can help generate conflict in your stories and avoid clichés.

Platforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube

RESOURCES

FOR CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSIONALS – BUILD YOUR BUSINESS SERVING WRITERS

Sign up to be notified when our training opens and get a short Creative Business Style Quiz to help you create success.

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Support our work for creatives!

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GET SUPPORT FOR YOUR FICTION WRITING BY A NOVELIST AND WRITING TEACHER AND COACH

Schedule an exploratory call here and see if Beth can support you today: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/discovery-call/

About the How To Write the Future podcast

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers, too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

This podcast is for you if you have questions like:

– How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?

– How do I figure out what’s not working if my story feels flat?

– How do I make my story more interesting and alive?

This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

About Sue Burke 

Sue Burke is an author and translator. Her novel Semiosis was nominated for the Arthur C. Clarke Award, John W. Campbell Memorial Award, and the Locus Best First Novel Award. Its sequels are Interference and Usurpation. She has also written the novels Immunity Index and Dual Memory, short stories, poetry, journalism, and essays, and she won the 2016 Alicia Gordon Award for Word Artistry in Translation from the American Translators Association. She was born in the Milwaukee, lived in Texas and Spain, and is now in Chicago.

Website: https://sueburke.site/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/burke.sue

X: https://x.com/SueBurkeSpain

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sueburke/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sueburkespain/

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sueburke.bsky.social

Transcript for Goal-Based Sci-Fi Research With Sue Burke

Welcome 

BETH BARANY: ​Hello everyone. Welcome to How to Write the Future Podcast. I am your host, Beth Barany. I’m a science fiction and fantasy writer who loves to talk to other writers and futurists and thinkers about how we can all create better futures for humanity. 

[00:19] Meet Sue Burke 

So I am so excited to have with me today a special guest, Sue Burke.

Sue, can you introduce yourself to everyone listening?

SUE BURKE: I’m a writer and also a translator. I started out as a journalist actually 50 years ago. I was very young and these days I write mostly science fiction. My best known work is a novel called Semiosis which is the first one in a trilogy. And it tells a story about some people who come from Earth and they go to another planet, they’re gonna set up an agricultural colony and they get there and discover that the plants are intelligent. And the thing to know is that most plant many plants do not mind being eaten but they have things they want in return. And that’s true here on earth.

BETH BARANY: Uh, so cool. 

[01:09] Goal Based Research 

I wanna start, with a focus, which is, How can writers implement goal-based research so they know when to stop searching and start writing? And I have to tell you, this is a very common problem.

I’m a writing teacher, and a coach and editor. And I hear this all the time, that people love their research so much that sometimes it, they don’t get to the writing part. What’s your stance on this?

[01:32] Research for Conflict 

SUE BURKE: Well, some of it all of course comes from having been a journalist, and you have to turn something at three o’clock this afternoon so get working but when you’re doing writing it helps to be looking for conflict. And by conflict I don’t mean enemies or opponents. What I mean is things that don’t work well because actually most things in this world don’t really work well. There’s problems and conflicts and for example. So okay I have my planet where there’s plants and they’re intelligent and humans come. 

When I was doing my research I discovered it’s possible for a planet to be formed such that there’s not a lot of iron on the surface. There is on our planet there’s plenty of iron but there’s not maybe on this planet. Plants need iron the way that plants also need nitrogen and phosphorus and things. On our planet if plants can can’t get enough nitrogen what do they do? Well they start hunting animals cause we have a lot of that. So okay, on this other planet you might have plants that are intelligent and they need iron and humans show up and like any other animal my blood is red because it’s full of iron so now I have a conflict. 

We have plants that are willing to cooperate but they’re hungry and we’re food and so that was the basis of the main plant character is that he’s just got a real problem that he can solve creatively. So look for things that are going to cause you a problem and when you get enough of them you can stop.

Eventually you get a feel for things but here’s one way to think about it so that all right, if you’re running a novel a typical novel length you need about 80 scenes of 1000 words a piece give or take. Do you have enough conflict to do that? If you are a an outliner or a milestoner which is what I do is like here we have the major plot points. Do you have enough to get from hither to yon? And you can start and if you fail or if you need more you can always go back and do more research but try enough that you’re going to take care of that.

If you’re doing something set in Boston you don’t need to know everything you know about Boston. You might just need to know about one restaurant and so you can do that a lot easier. 

[03:47] Avoiding Cliches 

BETH BARANY: So in terms of research-based conflicts, How can we make sure that we are not falling into cliches? How do we make it fresh, in, in our science fiction and fantasy stories?

SUE BURKE: One thing I recommend is that if you’re really sure about something look it up cause you’re probably wrong and that’s something I learned very early in my career of journalism is that the things that everybody knows are possibly not right. For example whales, when did most of the whales get hunted on our planet? 

BETH BARANY: 17, 18 hundreds? 

SUE BURKE: Wrong 1960s which is horrifying.

I was alive when they were killing most of the whales.

What went wrong? What was going on? So that’s one of the things and if you want to write something about whales you should probably know that we killed most of them.

Another one. Spanish Inquisition. They killed witches right? No they did not kill hardly any witches. They weren’t not in fact they just pretended they weren’t there cause there’s still witches in Spain. They were after something else entirely. So if you’re going to write about that, five minutes on Wikipedia these aren’t hard things to find out. But cliches are out there and if you’re really sure about something you double check. 

Another thing why do we have coal on this planet? Because plants discovered lignin then they started growing and then there was massive quantities of trees but bacteria had not figured out how to break down lignin. So that’s how we got coal was that the trees just did not decompose. On another planet will this happen? Very possibly not or very possibly something else. So these little details can make you develop a planet that can go in a very different way. 

Another idea. Okay so we’re gonna have a utopia in the future of the things that would be really nice, I live in a big city and we’re talking about well couldn’t we have like free transport free buses free airlines? It would be a great thing and it really would be a good thing for the city.

What would happen? I checked out a little bit if buses are free they tend to be really crowded cause everyone wants to take the bus .Okay that’s good. That’s a good thing. So you having a romance you’re gonna have the meet cute that you always have so just cute and it’s meet. They’re on a free bus and it’s so crowded they can’t get to each other. They see each other and then how do they meet the next time?

So you’re in utopia at least a transit utopia and people are having trouble falling in love cause it’s just such a wonderful bus system.

BETH BARANY: I love that .Have you ever done some research and you’re like, oh, that changes my idea of the story completely? 

[06:18] Rabbit Holes and Shortcuts

SUE BURKE: I’m more likely to use shortcuts well. So I was trying to create another planet and you gotta populate with animals and stuff. And so I decided I’m gonna use drop bearers. Drop bearers are something in Australia that don’t really exist. It’s something they made up to frighten tourists as one more thing in in Australia that’s going to kill you but they don’t really exist but I checked out their lore. They live in trees then they fall down. They have giant claws and they kill you and so I put them on my planet as aliens. It is a shortcut. I also needed more aliens and earth ants are really strange and wonderful things. 

Did you know ants can chirp? They’re so tiny you can’t hear that. I’ve seen them do that on my hand and I can’t hear them but they can chirp. They make all sorts of smells that have very specific meanings, that’s how they communicate. They lead complicated lives. A lot of ants are really hairy and I I had some really cool fuzzy aliens that make a lot of noise and smell actually sometimes very pleasant but it means specific things so that was just a shortcut. Could have been a rabbit hole except that there was a wonderful exit from that a quick way to meet things.

Another idea that I should make into a story sometime is that I discovered that what if you went to Mars and you were gonna grow plants like that guy in that movie? You can’t because there’s too much cadmium on Mars. It’s a poison that’s in the soil. This was actually on earth poison. If you went back and tried to eat a tyrannosaurus rex, you’d die because the meat is poisonous because there’s too much cadmium. So if you’re gonna go to Mars you’re gonna have to overcome that. That could be a really interesting story and the reason I say that is is I have al there’s a story that I read. It’s called The Man Who Bridged the Mist and it’s by Kij Johnson and it won the Hugo the 2012 Hugo. And what it is it’s a story of this guy he’s gonna build a bridge. Everyone agrees the bridge is the greatest thing. They want that bridge. It’s a wonderful thing. There are no villains in this story. It’s just that it’s really hard to build a bridge and the story is about how he overcome overcame those problems, and one of them is that he didn’t think he could do that but he did.

BETH BARANY: Yeah.

SUE BURKE: So we’re gonna go to Mars, we’re gonna clean up the cadmium. It’s gonna be hard but we’re gonna do that and then we’re all gonna live there and there’s not gonna be tyrannous rexes cause they’re poisonous. So the stories are out there. You can have all sorts of fun. Another thing I did.

BETH BARANY: Yeah.

SUE BURKE: So I wrote a story it’s in called Who Won the Battle of Arsia Mons and it’s in Clark’s world November of 2017. And I thought the stupidest thing I could do with robots on Mars is have them get into a fight. There’s a battle between robots on Mars and it’s meant as a sport. And so how am I gonna do this? So I poked around a little bit and discovered that there is something called robot sumo wrestling. And it started in Japan but now it’s all over and it’s a fascinating little thing and so they have little robots and they try to fight. And that’s basically how I made my fight scenes as I watched them robots sumo wrestling and I copied their fight moves and it was a lot of fun. But it was also a quick way to get through something I that would’ve been hard for me to figure out . But we had some very fine college students figuring this out for me of how you could make robots try to fool each other in a fighting ring.

BETH BARANY: Yeah. Oh, that’s so wonderful. I love how you have an idea, you go research it, and you enhance your problems in the story because of what you discover. 

[10:10] Ideas First Then Research

What comes first for you? A story idea or noodling around in some area of interest, researching some area of interest?

SUE BURKE: It starts with an idea. The one with the robots on Mars was just I saw a meme that said that Mars is the only planet that we know of that is inhabited solely by robots and then I was thinking about that and I just said what is the stupidest thing I can do with that idea? So I start with ideas. Other people start with characters which is fine. I know of one novel that started with the title. You can start with studying any way that you come at it. The question is can you do with that in a way that can be made into a story sometime before you die of old age.

BETH BARANY: That’s right. 

[10:58] Notes and Just in Time

So in terms of research, do you take copious notes?

Do you just sort of let it wash over you? Like what are some of the details around that?

SUE BURKE: I take sloppy horrible notes and I also I’ve been at this for a while and I have this idea that when I’ll do enough story research to start the story and then when I get to the part where this is going to happen or they’re going to go there, I will research that part, then I’ll write move on and then I’ll research the next part of it. I have the confidence that I will find out the information when I need to do that. I was a journalist and you need to do that or you lose your job.

BETH BARANY: Yeah. So you have that built in skillset. 

[11:36] Current Projects

So what, what, what are you working on right now?

SUE BURKE: Let’s see I’m writing a story that’s a space opera. And as an example of the research at one point I needed to have an alien thing that was like slime molds which are fascinating thing here on earth. So I did as much research as I need to write that part of it. And now I’m going to go and write a part where someone dies horribly and I’m going to need to research all the ways that you feel bad when and survival guilt cause that’s what’s going to come up next. 

BETH BARANY: When you do this research, are you saying to yourself, I’m gonna spend an afternoon, I’m gonna spend an hour, I’m gonna spend a few days. Do you give yourself any kind of timeframe around the research period?

SUE BURKE: I try to write a thousand words a day so that gives me an operational problem of how am I going to do this and also meet my quota. But yeah as soon as I have enough I try to go just because I’m old and I’m I wanna finish this before I die.

[12:38] Historical Novel Tease

BETH BARANY: So where can people find out more about you?

SUE BURKE: I have a website. It’s called Sue Burke dot site and everything’s pretty much linked up through them.

[12:49] Writing the Future 

BETH BARANY: I like to throw a curve ball at the end of the interview to folks. I always like to ask when you hear how to write the future, what does that mean to you?

SUE BURKE: First of all a whole lot of fun. The sort of person who thinks more about what’s going to happen than what has happened but I also think that there’s a lot of possibilities to write things that that that could be optimistic. There’s lots of problems but problems can be solved. There’s no guarantee that they’re going to but again for my journalism days is I learned that there’s this thing in the city. Can we solve it? Yes we can. Do we want to? Maybe maybe not and that’s what I read about that day is what’s going on with that thing.

BETH BARANY: Yeah. I love that. I love your optimism, and I, I love that. 

[13:39] Recommendations and Farewell

Your stories sound fabulous. I wanna recommend them to everyone. Check out Semiosis. Sue, thank you so much for coming on How To Write The Future and sharing with us about your research process and a little bit about your stories that you’re working on.

I’m excited to share this with everyone, so thank you. Thank you so much.

SUE BURKE: Thank you for having me. It’s been fun.

BETH BARANY: Yay. 

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here: 

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2012061 

Need instructions on how to leave a review? Go here.

***

Support our work for creatives: leave a tip: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany 

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ABOUT BETH BARANY

Beth Barany teaches science fiction and fantasy novelists how to write, edit, and publish their books as a coach, teacher, consultant, and developmental editor. She’s an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and runs the podcast, “How To Write The Future.”

Learn more about Beth Barany at these sites: 

Author site /  Coaching site / School of Fiction / Writer’s Fun Zone blog

CONNECT

Contact Beth: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/podcast/#tve-jump-185b4422580

Email: beth@bethbarany.com

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbarany/

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CREDITS

• EDITED WITH DESCRIPT: https://www.descript.com?lmref=_w1WCA (Refer-a-Friend link)
• MUSIC CREDITS : Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/fuzz-buzz License code: UMMKDRL02DFGKJ0L. “Fuzz buzz” by Soundroll. Commercial license: https://musicvine.com/track/soundroll/fuzz-buzz.
• DISTRIBUTED BY BUZZSPROUT: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1994465 (Refer-a-Friend link)
• SHOW PRODUCTION BY Beth Barany
• SHOW CO-PRODUCTION + NOTES by Kerry-Ann McDade

c 2025 BETH BARANY

https://bethbarany.com/

For more “How To Write the Future” episodes, go here.

If you’d like to invite Beth onto your podcast, drop her a note here.

Like the work we do? Tip us! https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany 

The post Goal-Based Sci-Fi Research With Sue Burke appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

Beth Barany, an award-winning science fiction and fantasy novelist and certified creativity coach for writers, joins Savannah Gilbo on the

In this conversation, Beth shares how writers can approach marketing in a way that feels authentic, values-driven, and sustainable without relying on overly sales-focused tactics that often leave creatives feeling overwhelmed or disconnected from their work.

Watch on You Tube

#238. How to Market Your Book in a Way That Actually Feels Good (With Beth Barany)

Listen on Savannah’s website

https://www.savannahgilbo.com/blog/how-to-market-your-book-with-beth-barany

Beth Barany helps science fiction and fantasy writers bring their novels to life through her courses, coaching, and consulting.

She also supports creative entrepreneurs who help writers flourish in their businesses.

Drawing from her years of experience as both a novelist and creativity coach, Beth believes that marketing can become an extension of a writer’s creative values rather than something separate from their art.

Throughout the interview, Beth and Savannah explore what heart-centered marketing really means for authors and why it can be especially powerful for writers who resist traditional promotional approaches.

Beth shares practical strategies for identifying the core values behind your stories, building meaningful relationships with readers, and creating sustainable marketing practices that support long-term creativity instead of burnout.

Listeners will also learn how to redefine success beyond sales numbers by focusing on reader connection, engagement, impact, and personal fulfillment.

The conversation offers encouragement and actionable insight for writers who want to share their work in a way that feels genuine and aligned with who they are.

When not teaching or coaching, Beth writes magical tales of romance, mystery, and adventure that empower women and girls to become the heroes of their own lives.

Her latest works include science fiction mysteries centered around a space station investigator.

Key Takeaways from the Episode

• What heart-centered marketing means for authors and why it works
• How to identify and incorporate your core creative values into your marketing
• Practical ways to create meaningful reader connections and community
• Sustainable marketing practices that support creativity rather than drain it
• How to measure success through impact, fulfillment, and engagement—not just sales

Free Resource Mentioned in the Episode

Trust Your Creative Heart Roadmap Workbook

A free downloadable workbook designed to help science fiction and fantasy writers move from idea to finished novel, including videos and additional creative resources.

Connect with Beth Barany

Website: https://www.bethbarany.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethbarany
Podcast: HOW TO WRITE THE FUTURE — http://howtowritethefuture.com

About Fiction Writing Made Easy

Hosted by Savannah Gilbo, Fiction Writing Made Easy helps aspiring and established fiction writers learn the craft of storytelling, strengthen their writing process, and finish novels readers will love.

***

Trust Your Creative Heart Roadmap Workbook by Beth Barany

How to go from idea to finished science fiction or fantasy novel

Start your journey from blank page to completed novel by downloading your free Trust Your Creative Heart Roadmap Workbook today!

A PDF downloadable workbook, plus videos and other goodies!

Sign up here!

The post Interview with Savannah Gilbo: How to Market Your Book in a Way That Actually Feels Good appeared first on Writer's Fun Zone.

Alex Kingsley: Writing Speculative Futures

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In the latest How To Write the Future podcast episode titled, “Alex Kingsley: Writing Speculative Futures,” host Beth Barany chats with Alex Kingsley, a science fiction writer, playwright, game designer, and more exciting roles that inform their fiction writing.

Together they talk about AI cognition, the importance of human intelligence in creating for the future, how speculative fiction can help readers cope with complex issues, and why compassion matters in sci-fi.

Platforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube

RESOURCES

Support our work for creatives!

Buy me a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/bethbarany

FOR CREATIVE WRITING PROFESSIONALS – BUILD YOUR BUSINESS SERVING WRITERS

Sign up to be notified when our training opens and get a short Creative Business Style Quiz to help you create success.

https://bethbarany.com/apprenticeship/

GET HELP WITH YOUR WORLD BUILDING – START HERE

Free World Building Workbook for Fiction Writers: https://writersfunzone.com/blog/world-building-resources/

About the How To Write the Future podcast 

The How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers. This podcast is for readers too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

This podcast is for you if you have questions like:

– How do I create a believable world for my science fiction story?

– How do I figure out what’s not working if my story feels flat?

– How do I make my story more interesting and alive?

This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.

ABOUT ALEX KINGSLEY

Alex Kingsley (they/them) is a writer, comedian, game designer, and playwright. They are a co-founder of the new media company Strong Branch Productions. They are the author of Empress of Dust, Relic of Haven and The Strange Garden and Other Weird Tales, as well as short fiction appearing in Translunar Travelers Lounge, Radon Journal, Sci-Fi Lampoon, and more. Alex’s sci-fi plays have been produced in LA, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Alex’s SFF-related non-fiction has appeared in Interstellar Flight Magazine and Ancillary Review of Books. Their games can be downloaded pay-what-you-will at alexyquest.itch.io. Alex is currently a graduate student studying speculative fiction at the University of Illinois Chicago.

Website: http://alexkingsley.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alexkingsleywriter

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alex.kingsley.332

X: https://x.com/alexyquest

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hitchhikersguidetothealexy

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-kingsley-56342a139/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@alexyquest

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@alexyquest

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/alexyquest.bsky.social

Newsletter: Newsletter: https://alexkingsley.substack.com

Transcript for Alex Kingsley: Writing Speculative Futures 

Welcome and Mission 

BETH BARANY: Hello everyone. Welcome to How to Write the Future Podcast. I’m your host Beth Barany. I’m a writing teacher and a coach and I specialize in writing and also supporting science fiction and fantasy writers because I believe when we envision the new that fantasy and sci-fi in speculative fiction can invite us into, we actually get a chance to envision ourselves in new ways and therefore create hope for the future, create alternative ways of being in the world. I think that’s really powerful. So I’m really excited to bring a guest to you today, Alex Kingsley, writer, and all kinds of other things, academic and, and more. I look forward to hearing everything that you’re doing. Alex, I know will have a very interesting conversation.

So why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and introduce yourself to everyone.

[00:49] Meet Alex Kingsley 

ALEX KINGSLEY: Absolutely. So I am a science fiction writer in many veins. I am a novelist, short story writer, playwright, and also a standup comedian on occasion, though that usually does not have to do with sci-fi. And a game designer as well. I love to play in many different mediums. I am the author of The Bastion Cycle.

That is the series that my debut novel Empress of Dust is in. The third and final installment of The Bastion Cycle will be coming out this fall with Space Wizard Science Fantasy, as well as the author of short fiction, some plays that have been produced in LA, Chicago, New York. And, yeah. I also am a, an MA student at UIC studying speculative fiction and, writing the future and speculative futures is a huge part of my studies and the things that I am interested in.

I’m doing a presentation later this year on Always Coming Home and the importance of representing agricultural communities in the future in sci-fi. So that is super, super important to me in everything I study and everything I believe.

BETH BARANY: So wonderful. I love the diversity of all the things that you’re doing. And, you, you said the acronym of the university. Why don’t you speak out the whole thing so folks know? 

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yes, good point. the University of Illinois, Chicago.

BETH BARANY:  Great. And we’re gonna do some improv today ’cause you gave us some questions ahead of time that you were like I don’t even remember what I gave you, which is so cool. So, I would love to really know,

[02:20] Many Mediums One Practice

So you work in audio, you work in theater, you work in comedy, improv, and game design and fiction, and you’re in academia. To me, you’re working in all these different mediums. So looking at all the mediums that you work in, and then how does that affect you as a fiction writer?

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah, I kind of think of it as having a lot of different tools at my disposal. I am a really big fan of learning a little bit of this thing, a little bit of that thing because every experience that I have, I is going to somehow end up in my writing in some way, can somehow like, fuel something that I’m writing and inform it.

One of the biggest connections is between theater background and prose writing, because having directed actors having had that, like the collaboration that comes from that, the play that comes from that, but also really having to take a text, visualize the scene, understand the motivated movement in that scene, understand the minutia of the blocking.

All of that has been super useful for me in like, when I am writing the physical layout of a scene, I’m thinking of it like I’m blocking it as a play. I thought I was gonna be a playwright originally. I, I mean, I am, but I thought I was going to be primarily a playwright, so I was really focused on the dialogue and of course writing all that dialogue pretty much exclusively dialogue has had a huge influence on the way that I write dialogue, but it meant that I was very comfortable with that and less comfortable with everything else and imagining it as, okay, this is actually just a play that I’m directing, was really, really huge. And then the Improv comedy and tabletop game. I mean, tabletop roleplaying games are a form of long form improv, but generally, when people think about improv, they’re thinking about short form comedy, getting jokes in. They’re coming up with jokes, off the top of your head and table, anyone who has played tabletop role play games know that it’s more about really understanding your character, understanding what kind of choices your character would make in a situation, and being able to make those choices on the fly because you don’t know what, you don’t know what choices the other characters are going to make, you don’t know what choices your game master is going to make. So it’s all about having that intimate character knowledge and being able to make choices for them. 

And that’s exactly what you’re doing when you’re writing fiction. Like I have always been much more towards the pantser side of things than plotter. Definitely things start to emerge and I start to see structure. But where I really like to start is character. Like have a strong sense of who I’m writing and just the general concept, just the general situation that, the thing that I always say is put that beast in a situation. Like, I like to imagine my characters that’s like mice in a lab, rats in, in the maze.

I just gotta have a maze and some rats. And once I know my rats really well, I know what kinds of decisions they’re gonna make when they get into that maze. So I’ll end up writing scenes and be like, oh my God, I had no idea that was gonna happen. But that’s so crazy. ’cause that’s, yeah, that’s exactly what she would do in this situation and that, that’s part of the joy of it for me. 

So all of those pieces, and then the ac, the academic piece is just all that but studying it. Studying how other people do it, and how other people imagine the future and how other people use sci-fi, speculative, any kind of departure from our reality in fun and interesting creative ways and the ways that that can impact our society on a whole.

So it does seem, I think like when I’m like, I do this, I do this, I do this, I do this. Like I am doing 5 billion things at once. It’s actually just the same artistic practice, but it’s taking a ton of different forms. 

BETH BARANY: Yeah, I can really relate as someone writing teacher, filmmaker, and writing scripts and novels, a trainer and a curriculum developer. Did I say editor too? I edit fiction and video and you know, my own podcast. I’m my own, I’m gonna be doing it for clients as well. 

[06:25] Why Study Speculative Fiction

So let’s come back to academic work. You mentioned that you decided to study speculative fiction because, because why?

Tell us a little bit more, why you decided to study it, and also how does it tie into your own creative work as a writer?

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah, totally. I for a long time thought that I just wanted to be a creative writer, and I had this very rigid view of like, I do this and not this. Like I am a humanities person and not a STEM person and I am a, a creative writer and not an academic writer. Like I had all these sort of firm boundaries in my head I think ’cause that felt comfortable and safe and it made me feel like I knew what I was and it didn’t put me in danger of trying something that I was bad at and then being like, oh no, I’m bad at this. Because definitely we get a lot of that in our upbringing in school and then we kind of put ourselves into boxes for our own safety.

Eventually I started realizing I don’t have to do that. I don’t have to just be one thing. Which again, is one of those things where like, sounds really obvious when I say it out loud, but I, it’s, it was like a truth that I had not internalized until I was like, but what if, what if I actually did other stuff?

Part of it was I am always spreading the Gospel of Brandon Sanderson’s lecture series. I think he is such a, an intelligent teacher, and puts things in a way that is like so clear and understandable and digestible. And one of the things that he talks about in that lecture series is learning about the things that interest you and like not having to be just a writer because the material that you write about is going to come from all of your other life experiences.

And he talks about like John Grisham being a lawyer. And so all of his stuff is like law thriller. And you will have to combine your life experience with your writing skills, like you’re not just gonna be one thing.

And I went to the Nebula Conference for the first time in 2024 and there were all these academics there. And I was talking to them about all these like really specific topics. I was talking to someone who was like a token expert, had a PhD and I just like had this revelation where I was like, wait, I wanna be an expert. I wanna be an expert in this. I wanna be an expert in sci-fi. Like it’s, it’s what I love. Why have I confined myself to only loving it as a fan and a creative writer when I could also love it as an academic and study it as a discipline? At that point I had applied to MFA programs, and did not get into any of the ones that I wanted to, so I didn’t end up going that year.

But for one of the applications, I had to write a critical piece, which I really hadn’t done a lot of, and I had so much fun writing the application. And I was like, well, that’s not normal. People don’t usually have fun writing applications. So, I, I realized I really like to write critically and analytically about the stuff that I enjoy reading, not just producing, you know, ingesting it and producing my own fiction, which was how I started writing reviews for ancillary review of books.

Now I also write for Interstellar Flight Magazine and Strange Horizons. I realized it was, it is just a thing that I love to do. So why not go to the place where they will pay me money to do it and I get to teach students how to do it and share all this joy that I am constantly, you know, constantly needs to, is flowing over, is brimming and needs to spread.

I can share that with people. It seemed like the most natural path. And as soon as I started telling people, yeah, I think I’m gonna do this, they were like, that checks out. 

I thought it was gonna be a big announcement to be like, mom, dad, I’m going to grad school for English. And they were just like, well, yeah, of course you are.

BETH BARANY: Yeah. That’s so great. So funny. People often see us in that way before we do.

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah.

[10:23] Defining Speculative Fiction

BETH BARANY: I love to ask folks all kinds of questions about their passion for science fiction and fantasy, and I, I generally say science fiction and fantasy ’cause it’s easier to understand for people who aren’t in, who aren’t inside the publishing industry or the academic industry.

But we can also say just for folks who aren’t familiar, speculative fiction is the umbrella term for science fiction and fantasy and weird fiction, and I think horror could fit it under there. And anything that is outside of what we call contemporary fiction or even historical fiction, if it has any element of magic, make believe, maybe the lines are blurred. We can point to it and say this doesn’t exist in real life, even though most fiction is, you know, obviously a stretch of the truth. So now that I’ve defined speculative fiction, I would love to hear your definition of speculative fiction and also why you think it’s so important. 

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah. My short answer of like, why I enjoy speculative fiction is reality is boring. We already live there. I, and it sucks a lot not to be a downer there’s lots of, there’s good stuff too. But also every day there’s the horrors. So I’m like, I really, when I’m reading, I wanna be reading about things that are not this, but not for the reasons that people often describe. I think that for people who are not big readers, they kind of assume that reading fiction is always escapism. And I’m sure as a sci-fi reader and a writer yourself, you know, that is not the case. Fiction is a wonderful arena for dealing with some really complex topics and some difficult issues in a safe space.

Being able to grapple with these ideas that are really hard, from the comfort of your own home with a cat on your lap and a cup of tea. And it’s really important that we be doing that work constantly as a society, because it’s how we work through things is how we process complex issues.

And like I said, reality sucks. There are complex issues in the world. The reason that speculative is so important to me is because it opens up this whole new realm of play and of possibility. It allows us, there are so many complicated things to deal with in our reality, if you are going to use it, so many constraints, if you’re going to use it in your story and being in the speculative realm, I think it frees you from all of those constraints.

It allows you to imagine, okay, what would a society look like if we had this? What might the human race look like in thousands of years? What would a totally different species look like. 

[13:11] AI Cognition and Personhood

One of my main areas of study right now is alternative cognitions. Imagining using our own, you know, we’re, we’re kind of stuck with human brains, but how can we use our very human understanding of the world to conceptualize what it would be like to have a different form of cognition. I think that’s especially important with the increasing importance in our society, whether we like it or not, of AI, to be able to understand, okay, the anthropomorphization of large language models that corporations are doing is a manipulation tactic, and we need to understand the kinds of processes that are happening that differ from human cognition.

So we don’t start attributing things to machines in a way, like assuming that they are human and assuming that decisions are made in the same way that we would make decisions because they’re not. Also the idea of expanding personhood. What does it mean to be a person? Why is, I’m a big fan of like decentering humanness.

I think a lot of, when we talk about, you know, human nature and humanity and a lot of times when we talk about AI, like when will it be human intelligence? And I’m like, I would love to see humanness not really being the benchmark, cause also there’s plenty of people who are humans who are not getting human rights in our reality.

So I’m like, I would love for us to just establish a, like how can we treat a person and do that before we start asking is or isn’t this thing human because does it matter? Because we’re still treating humans poorly, in lots of places.

BETH BARANY: We’ve centered everything, humans being the benchmark, but actually our intelligence hasn’t, has done a lot of things poorly. Our so-called human intelligence. And, you know what, if we lived like whales or dolphins or bees or owls or, or, or the wolves? 

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah, exactly.

BETH BARANY: Why do we assume that what the way we think is, is the pinnacle? And I, and I know why there’s a whole history of that, but

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah.

BETH BARANY: Yeah, I appreciate what you’re saying about decentering human or human intelligence because we’re animals just like the rest of ’em.

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah.

BETH BARANY: And we forget that. We act as if we’re at some kind of pinnacle. And very interesting what you were saying about AI. I had an AI expert on, 

ALEX KINGSLEY: Ooh.

BETH BARANY: Some episodes ago, and you know. We never talked about it with that person, but I keep wondering why the people who design AI want to replace humans. To me, it feels like they want to replace humans. And I’m like, well, why? Why are you erasing, the very thing that you know, you are. I’m trying to understand the philosophy beneath this quest to everything, to be robotic. And I’m like, that’s weird because you know, if you don’t have a body, you don’t have emotions. And, and we don’t actually even really understand emotion fully.

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah.

BETH BARANY: So anyway, I could go off down that rabbit hole.

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah, I mean, I’m sure someone who is an expert in the field of AI could tell you more than I could, my, I do focus on, representations of AI in fiction. So definitely discussing robots and how we perceive robot, and I use those terms often when I’m talking about fiction interchangeably, just because they are like very murky. No one really has a firm definition. 

I have been looking a lot at the way that we perceive these things, and I mean, it does seem like a lot of it is money, because when the companies that are making the AI are able to then sell them to companies and say, Hey, why would you pay a hundred people to do this when you could have this machine do it for you?

It doesn’t matter to them if the quality is going to be good or if the people who are being laid off are not going to be able to support their lives, like that just doesn’t matter to them. So it gets marketed as a replacement and it also gets marketed as humanlike, uh, because we have our own assumptions about what intelligence is and how it has to resemble humanity ’cause that is what a lot of earlier sci-fi has taught us to expect. 

First ever robots in fiction looked just like humans ’cause it was a play and they were human actors. That’s part of what we have been led to expect from our fiction. But also there’s this attribution error that happens where people focus so much when AI does something bad on the AI itself.

Because we have been led to think of it as a person, so it’s not this company has caused this harm. It is, oh, Claude did this. That’s not, that’s not a person. We’re not there yet. We’re not there. That is a statistical model that is trying to sound like a person and doing a good job, but the more we attribute problems to the AI itself and not the people making it, the more we let them get away with a lot of bullshit. 

BETH BARANY: I agree. I agree. I mean, someone once said to me, oh, the algorithm decided this. I’m like, somebody designed that algorithm. That’s people behind that and they’re like, oh yes, well, blah, blah, blah. You know, like I constantly feel like I’m reminding people that we made them. Humans made these things and it’s complex processes that humans designed.

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah. And absolutely like things can come out of that that were not intended or anticipated, but that does not mean the, the thing, the product equals a human intelligence, and that is not placing a value judgment saying like, it is less intelligent than humans because there are things that large language models can do that Humans can’t or, or they do it a lot faster than humans could, or more accurately than humans could. Like that is not placing a value judgment. It’s just saying it is very, very different from human cognition and needs to be treated as such.

BETH BARANY: Yeah, I agree. I feel like you and I could keep going,

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah.

BETH BARANY: So we’ll definitely have to have a future conversation. 

[19:24] How to Write the Future

I like to end my interviews with this question, which once you hear it won’t be so odd. But I like to spring it on folks, which is, when you hear how to write the future, what does that call to mind for you?

ALEX KINGSLEY: It calls to mind any kind of forward looking fiction. Any, anyone who is imagining what the future could look like. And a lot of times, I think when I talk about writing the future, people assume I’m talking about utopian specifically and like a good future, but I am a big fan of being somewhere in the middle.

Like, I really like Ursula K. Le Guin’s term for the dispossessed. An ambiguous utopia. This idea of, there’s a lot of stuff going on and it’s a, it’s very complicated and it’s not. Hey, this is the ideal world and it’s not. This is purely dystopia. Terrible. Because nothing is really ever so black and white, at least it rarely ever is, and that would also not make a very interesting book. And I think that she is someone who was really a, a master of doing that. 

Like a lot of what I’m talking about in my presentation about always coming home is it’s not like, hey, this is presented as the ideal future. It is still important to imagine that a future like this in which we have returned to embedded communities as opposed to a concept of nation that expands beyond us. It is important to imagine what a future like that could look like.

Doesn’t mean that’s exactly what we’re aiming for. It’s so important that we are imagining what it could look like if, hey, what if every, everything was sentient.

What if the worms were solving complex math problems? Like what, what would that look like? Having this space to play in the world of what if, because we’re not gonna be able to predict what’s gonna happen, and it’s not our job to be able to predict what’s going to happen. But the more we can imagine, the more we can ask ourselves, what would we do in this situation? The more prepared we will be for what does happen. And most importantly, the more prepared our empathy will be

A professor who I kind of like grew up listening to and talking to and all of that, he would say at the core of sci-fi is asking what happens when our capabilities expand faster than our compassion?

And I think that’s why sci-fi is important. Is saying, hold on, let’s slow down and let’s make sure our compassion is there as well. And that’s honestly probably one of the reasons that Murderbot is so important to me. Is so many robot stories are about what if there was a robot that was conscious and everyone was like, no, you’re a machine.

And it’s so refreshing to have a book series where there’s a robot that’s conscious and immediately everyone’s like, and we love you. I I think that’s really beautiful

BETH BARANY: I have to read that. 

ALEX KINGSLEY: Yeah. 

BETH BARANY: That is beautiful.

ALEX KINGSLEY: It’s, that was a, that like a huge reduction of what those books are, 

BETH BARANY: That’s ok.

ALEX KINGSLEY: But that was something that is, is so delightful about them is the immediacy of the humans being like, and you’re a person too, and we won’t take that away from you. 

[22:31] Where to Find Alex 

BETH BARANY: Let’s do wrap up. Where can people find out about you and your fiction and stay in touch and all that good stuff.

ALEX KINGSLEY: Absolutely. I am on Instagram @ HitchhikersGuidetotheAlexy. I am on BlueSky @alexyquest and my website is alex kingsley.org. I also, I, I mentioned I do tabletop games. You can find my games @alexequest.itch.io. Those are the main places on the internet where you can find me. If you reach out to me, any of those places, I’ll see it and I’ll respond.

BETH BARANY: That’s great. And we’ll be including that information. So be sure to look in the show notes, the information that travels along with the podcast, and also on YouTube. 

[23:13] Final Wrap Up

So I’m gonna wrap it up here. Alex, it was so wonderful chatting with you today. I really love everything that you’re up to.

It’s so interesting and I would definitely wanna have you back. I’m gonna wrap it up here with my little sendoff. That’s it for this week, everyone. Write long and prosper. 

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Beth Barany teaches science fiction and fantasy novelists how to write, edit, and publish their books as a coach, teacher, consultant, and developmental editor. She’s an award-winning fantasy and science fiction novelist and runs the podcast, “How To Write The Future.”

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