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    <title>Comments for Strategy Blog: Viget Labs</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/</link>
    <description />
    <dc:language>en</dc:language>
    <dc:creator>M. Jackson Wilkinson jackson.wilkinson@viget.com </dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:47:18 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Shackles of Simplicity by Hector Hurtado</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8922</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8922</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>A pleasant read, though simplicity is not the conundrum here, but scalability.
</p>
<p>
One cannot condemn simplicity in favor of something that should be complex <em>simply because we are used to things that way</em>. It is our job as designers to turn these very concepts around.
</p>
<p>
&#8220;Every day after a user begins learning your design, they move more toward that expert category.&#8221; Right on, it is the failure to foresee scalability that prevents users turning into power-users.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Hector Hurtado</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:47:18 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on The Shackles of Simplicity by brad</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8912</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8912</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I think the term simplicity is often used erroneously. I agree you can&#8217;t bring simplicity to a complex interface, without losing something, but you can bring order. Simplicity may be asked for from a chaotic interface when order is what is actually needed. 
</p>
<p>
Andy Rutledge has an interesting post about this, <a href="http://www.andyrutledge.com/complex-order-simple-chaos.php">Complex Order, Simple Chaos</a>.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>brad</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:55:43 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on The Shackles of Simplicity by lexx</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8909</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8909</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I want to know too about any references when you said Asians tend to go for a busy interface.
</p>
<p>
:) Well, I&#8217;m one of them so I just want to confirm some things and sort them out.
</p>
<p>
BTW, @Jackson This is a nice read. Thanks!
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>lexx</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:25:07 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Sketching in the Kickoff Meeting by Todd Zaki Warfel</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8903</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8903</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Glad the method has been useful to you. It&#8217;s core to our practice and we can&#8217;t imagine doing it any other way.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Todd Zaki Warfel</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:21:11 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Todd Zaki Warfel</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8902</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8902</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Actually, there was some research done by a UK institution years ago showing that line lengths below 62 and over 110 didn&#8217;t perform as bad (can&#8217;t recall the resource off the top of my head). It found that 72-96 was optimal for speed and retention. The reason I recall the study is that it was subject for debate during a project I worked on at Cornell. So, we decided to test it ourselves. 
</p>
<p>
In our testing, which was done originally in 2002, we found that 72-96 had the best reading and retention rates. We saw reading and retention drop off around 110-112 characters per line (12-14px font size 1.125-1.5 line height). We&#8217;ve done a number of studies since, where line length wasn&#8217;t the focus of the study, but a secondary measurement, and we continue to see the same results today. 
</p>
<p>
The crux of the issue is that people say they &#8220;prefer&#8221; to fill their browser windows, but when line lengths get over 110, they&#8217;re actually doing themselves harm, or creating sub-optimal situations.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Todd Zaki Warfel</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:19:03 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Shackles of Simplicity by Jason Robb</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8899</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8899</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I dig it. Good read, and well written.
</p>
<p>
I didn&#8217;t think about it, but you&#8217;re right about the cultural considerations. Do you have any references or resources pointing to why Asian societies value busy UI&#8217;s? (Other than just looking at their designs.)
</p>
<p>
Thanks! =)
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Jason Robb</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:10:41 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on The Shackles of Simplicity by M. Jackson Wilkinson</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8898</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8898</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>@Matthew: Agreed when it comes to the arrogance of irresponsible simplicity. 
</p>
<p>
It&#8217;s probably important to remember, in this discussion, that accessibility is not a standing target. Being accessible to a mass audience often means avoiding overwhelming a user, and is far different from being accessible to experts who usually want all relevant information. Every day after a user begins learning your design, they move more toward that expert category.
</p>
<p>
There are cultural considerations as well: Asian societies value a busy interface far more than one more simple.
</p>
<p>
@Karine: I don&#8217;t think today&#8217;s web *should* be about blind simplicity, but I think there are far too many examples that simple approaches are chosen when a more complex approach is really needed to solve the problem.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>M. Jackson Wilkinson</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:37:26 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on The Shackles of Simplicity by Karine</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8897</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8897</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I don&#8217;t think today&#8217;s web is about *blind* simplicity. Nor is design. Design is about solving a problem, taking all parameters into account. 
<br />
Then for the same output / result, the simplest approach / design / algorythm should be chosen.
</p>
<p>
Today&#8217;s web is all about providing the simplest answer to a given problem. Yet, simplest can still be complex if you indeed take into account parameters that really matter.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Karine</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:23:06 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on The Shackles of Simplicity by Matthew Smith</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8892</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-shackles-of-simplicity/#8892</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I&#8217;ve found that simplicity has become an end in itself in many of our design circles lately. I&#8217;m beginning to feel that simplicity without responsibility begins to look and feel arrogant.
</p>
<p>
Like the minimalist artwork of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_LeWitt">Sol Lewitt</a>, there is beauty in simple rhythms, shapes, lines, forms, but I find work like the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isenheim_Altarpiece">Issenheim Alterpiece</a> to be unbelievably human and deeply compelling. The Altarpiece is complex, and possibly even over-busy by today&#8217;s standards, but it remains the more accessible piece by a greater number of people.
</p>
<p>
I wonder how those principles play into how we architect and design for the web?
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Matthew Smith</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:42:58 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on Geo: Soon to be Legit by tiffany</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/geo-soon-to-be-legit/#8891</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/geo-soon-to-be-legit/#8891</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I also see this being useful if you are, say, at a convention in another city. I have no idea what Austin, TX&#8217;s ZIP code is. But it would be tres useful for an application to detect that I am using an IP address assigned to the Austin Convention Center and show restaurants that are nearby. 
</p>
<p>
It&#8217;s powerful stuff, even if it&#8217;s not tied to a mobile device.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>tiffany</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:48:37 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Prototyping with Production Purposes in Mind by Ashley</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/prototyping-with-production-purposes-in-mind/#8817</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/prototyping-with-production-purposes-in-mind/#8817</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I work on a good deal of sites going through the iterative design process. I agree that clickable prototypes are definitely the way to go, but I have also come across the same debate with whether or not the (X)HTML I or my team has created should be used in the production version of the application. We&#8217;ve done everything from using tools such as AxurePro to simply hand-coding HTML pages. One of the other hurdles we&#8217;ve encountered is producing prototypes for a client who is blind, so creating section 508-compliant wireframes is necessary for him to grasp the full extent of what we&#8217;re trying to achieve. In that specific case, HTML is really the easiest and most reliable option. A CSS for the wireframes was created to very sparingly match the visual look match the pre-existing design, solely so users could understand how it would fit with what has already been done.
</p>
<p>
On the 508-compliant project that went through ten iterations, I would copy the entire set of wireframes and add in the new functionality. The previous iteration&#8217;s signed and approved wireframes were saved for baseline purposes. Inevitably, post signoff, there are always additional changes, and when necessary, the wireframes would be updated. However, I still haven&#8217;t fully reconciled how to ensure the wireframes completely match all the functionality of the production version. For the most part, the last set of wireframes is a reasonably close match to production.
</p>
<p>
There has been some talk of creating our own custom UI control library with a corresponding list of visual icons. The IAs/UI designers could use the icons in the design and the development team would then know that those match up to a specific component in the UI control library. However, we haven&#8217;t fleshed this out yet. It seems like it would help by eliminating the IA/UI designer&#8217;s need to spend excessive time tweaking the HTML prototype, and the developers would already have a reusable component to start from and customize as necessary. It sounds efficient in theory, but I&#8217;d be curious to know if anyone else had implemented a solution of this sort.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:40:14 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Kyle</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8808</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8808</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>While research may indicate that users <em>can</em> read long line-lengths, it doesn&#8217;t mean that they necessarily <em>enjoy</em> reading long line-lengths.
</p>
<p>
I <em>can</em> read small print on a cereal box, but I sure don&#8217;t enjoy it. (But alas, I have nothing better to do at the breakfast table :)
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 20:04:35 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Managing Wireframes More Effectively in OmniGraffle by Lorraine Chisholm</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/managing-wireframes-more-effectively-in-omnigraffle/#8804</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/managing-wireframes-more-effectively-in-omnigraffle/#8804</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Sweet! You made my day.
</p>
<p>
Very useful tutorial!&nbsp;  Such a simple thing, but think how many UX lives it can make better.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Lorraine Chisholm</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 11:06:37 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Testing Web Text Readability by M. Jackson Wilkinson</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/testing-web-text-readability/#8798</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/testing-web-text-readability/#8798</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>@Stefan: In the test, line length and line spacing were randomized for each participant.&nbsp; Other folks got shorter line lengths and taller heights, with several values in-between. 
</p>
<p>
It&#8217;s too bad you didn&#8217;t finish, or we&#8217;d have been able to see how the combination impacted you!
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>M. Jackson Wilkinson</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 06:20:45 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on Testing Web Text Readability by Stefan Seiz</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/testing-web-text-readability/#8797</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/testing-web-text-readability/#8797</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Of course i meant to write &#8220;study&#8221; not &#8220;stufy&#8221;.
</p>
<p>
PPS: the lines spacing of the text in these comments here is much better than the one from your test.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Stefan Seiz</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 02:44:38 -0400</pubDate>
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     <item>
    <title>Comment on Testing Web Text Readability by Stefan Seiz</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/testing-web-text-readability/#8796</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/testing-web-text-readability/#8796</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I started the test but stopped. The long lines combined with the small line spacing were too much for me.
</p>
<p>
I believe, a bigger line spacing would have improved readability of the textmuch more, than shorter lines would.
<br />
So here&#8217;s food for another stufy ;-)
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Stefan Seiz</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 02:43:15 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Managing Wireframes More Effectively in OmniGraffle by Todd Moy</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/managing-wireframes-more-effectively-in-omnigraffle/#8765</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/managing-wireframes-more-effectively-in-omnigraffle/#8765</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Nice tutorial, Jackson. Hey, I&#8217;m planning to do a build-an-app in AxureRP demo for TriUPA. It might be interesting to make a bigger event and highlight other workflows like this.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Todd Moy</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 23:08:44 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Chris Robinson</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8758</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8758</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Really interesting read, I agree with Antonio above though on his three points the test should be about comprehension not speed.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Chris Robinson</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 15:42:43 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Sketching in the Kickoff Meeting by Mike Morris</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8755</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8755</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I like this approach.&nbsp; Great point about this not being for all clients, though.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve also tried a similar concept with members of my project team.&nbsp; So, after conversations and traditional requirements gathering with clients, we&#8217;ve gone off on our own separate ways and taken cuts at what we think the ideal website would be for them.&nbsp; It&#8217;s just another technique of drawing out lots of ideas without exerting much work.&nbsp; Here is a blog post about it: http://www.agileapproach.com/blog-entry/a-sketchy-approach-wireframes
</p>
<p>
Thanks for sharing,
<br />
Mike
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Mike Morris</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 09:38:54 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by M. Jackson Wilkinson</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8745</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8745</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Joe, It&#8217;s unfortunate you chose to pepper your remarks with ad hominem, straw man, and red herring arguments. I won&#8217;t reciprocate.
</p>
<p>
It&#8217;s certainly a belief of mine that research should be readily available to the industries it impacts as much as possible.&nbsp; For those who work on the web, &#8220;readily-available&#8221; is largely synonymous with &#8220;googleable.&#8221;  If we were talking about a field dominated by academia, it would, I argue, be a different story.
</p>
<p>
I assert that a decent estimate you can put your hands on, as a practitioner in this field, is far better than the best-laid research you can&#8217;t. What we&#8217;re offering is an attempt at a decent estimate, and that&#8217;s all it claims to be.&nbsp; I welcome your dissent as well as your support.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>M. Jackson Wilkinson</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 14:23:06 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Joe Clark</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8744</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8744</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>“People who need it most”? You make it sound like emergency relief for disaster victims.
</p>
<p>
I don’t find it “unsatisfactory” that peer-reviewed research is published in actual journals. You seem to think everything should be Googlable. What if not everything should?
</p>
<p>
Really, you seem to be insisting that “dissent” disproves reputable scientific claims because you can’t search for and read those claims from your iPhone.
</p>
<p>
I’m not even going to bother with your pointless little demo. Hire a Ph.D. to run a real controlled experiment and then we’ll talk.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Joe Clark</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 12:19:11 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Prototyping with Production Purposes in Mind by Hector Hurtado</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/prototyping-with-production-purposes-in-mind/#8732</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/prototyping-with-production-purposes-in-mind/#8732</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>I have nowhere near the experience of you guys when it comes to agile processes in teams: at my day job, I design and develop, which amounts to a one-man band (just like my evening free-lance activities), but here&#8217;s my 2c on the interesting subject.
</p>
<p>
I found that XHTML prototyping makes sense when I free-lance and have a close relationship with my client. With less parties involved, I can take the time to explain UX, aesthetic, and behavioral decisions step by step, and gain the trust of the client by involving him that much in the process.
</p>
<p>
On the corporate level, however, some rules are fixed through strict guidelines, others through experience, and yet others are my personal view on the question after testing what works and what doesn&#8217;t. Showing an XHTML prototype or even a wireframe to the hierarchy is risky at best, for the amount of questions regarding revisions is unlimited. This environment leads me to favor non-recyclable work that is really explicit of the expected production level: a photoshop comp, sometimes as stand-alone, sometimes as background of an XHTML-enhanced prototype.
</p>
<p>
I guess my goals are different depending on the environment&#8230; In the first, it is a real dialog. In the second, I need validation as quickly and painlessly as possible. The discussion has not mention the client&#8217;s experience.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Hector Hurtado</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 01:37:14 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Testing Web Text Readability by Michael Sigler</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/testing-web-text-readability/#8729</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/testing-web-text-readability/#8729</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Nice to see you testing your theories. I just went through the test and had a few thoughts about it.
</p>
<p>
The line length was uncomfortable, but not so much to be unreadable. The terminology of the piece made it difficult to comprehend at first and I found myself re-reading whole sections. Also, knowing it was a test of some sort, I forced myself to read it more carefully than I might have under other conditions. The questions themselves were about pivotal or repetitive portions of the text.
</p>
<p>
I can&#8217;t help but wonder if those things will skew your results.
</p>
<p>
Still, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve thought about some of this and I&#8217;m interested to know what your testing criteria are. I certainly appreciate something simple that continues the conversation while its hot. :) 
</p>
<p>
I also want to read more about this now.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Michael Sigler</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 18:45:05 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by M. Jackson Wilkinson</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8728</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8728</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Joe: Absolutely, but you&#8217;re missing that the purpose of this post was to expose that there is dissent on the issue, not to make any hard claims.
</p>
<p>
However, it&#8217;s a bit unsatisfactory that the relevant research isn&#8217;t terribly accessible to the people who need it most. 
</p>
<p>
So today, we opened a bit of a research project that might help the situation a bit.&nbsp; Head on over to <a href="http://readability.viget.com">http://readability.viget.com</a> where we have a timed reading sample and some straight-forward comprehension questions.
</p>
<p>
Maybe we can come closer to some decent conclusions.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>M. Jackson Wilkinson</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 18:41:51 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Joe Clark</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8727</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8727</guid>
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<p>Unfortunately, most of the real reseach on this topic isn’t on blogs and isn’t Googlable; you have to read actual published papers, which requires a trip to the library and the use of a photocopier.
</p>
<p>
In other words, this post’s reliance on a single study is unwise.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Joe Clark</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 17:14:05 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Sketching in the Kickoff Meeting by Jackson Fox</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8724</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8724</guid>
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<p>@anon — Card Sorting works, and there are a lot of design &#8220;games&#8221; you can use to identify priority of information within a page. In particular, I like a variation on &#8220;divide the dollar&#8221; where stakeholders are given &#8220;cash&#8221; to spend on content. The more they spend, the higher it goes on the page. Doing this with individual stakeholders can reveal differing priorities.
</p>
<p>
@Carson — Glad to hear it&#8217;s working for you too!
</p>
<p>
@Brian — It ended up about 1:2 in terms of time spent sketching to doing the walkthroughs.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Jackson Fox</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 15:00:09 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Sketching in the Kickoff Meeting by Brian Talbot</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8722</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8722</guid>
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<p>Great write-up and method on working with clients who have an affinity to visual brainstorming and discovery, Jackson. 
</p>
<p>
I&#8217;d imagine you&#8217;d want a good amount of time to extract concepts and goals from visual UI sketches with the client. How much of the allotted time have you been spending in executing the exercise versus reviewing its outcomes in meetings?
</p>
<p>
<strong>@anon</strong>, I&#8217;ve found that an internal <a href="http://www.boxesandarrows.com/view/card_sorting_a_definitive_guide">cardsorting</a> exercise, in an IA-driven project, can produce the same type of results, where clients are describing often specific content/functionality first which later generate (via a review) concepts and goals.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Brian Talbot</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 14:06:21 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Sketching in the Kickoff Meeting by Carson</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8721</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8721</guid>
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<p>I&#8217;ve done the same thing with clients for logos, they &#8220;know exactly what they want,&#8221; but can&#8217;t seem to get it into words. Hand them a pencil and some paper and let them sketch it out, no matter how bad their drawing skills are it almost always helps.
</p>
<p>
Keep getting the word out. Great stuff.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Carson</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 11:59:50 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Sketching in the Kickoff Meeting by anon</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8720</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/sketching-in-the-kickoff-meeting/#8720</guid>
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<p>This sounds like a really great idea to elicit more useful input from clients about their desires for the design of the site. Where I work, we&#8217;re often constricted by a CMS and corporate templates, so I&#8217;m wondering...is there an equivalent for information architecture? Maybe a card sort?
</p>
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    <dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 10:55:01 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Nathan</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8712</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8712</guid>
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<p>@Anon Re: height and spacing, I&#8217;m with you. While undoubtedly it&#8217;s true that the online reading experience differs dramatically from reading printed text, I still find that longer lengths confuse and/or tire me. The ideal length is still probably related to both the type size and the leading, so that given those parameters on a website, there will be a length that works for most people.
<br />
 
<br />
I imagine there&#8217;s some kind of &#8220;golden proportion&#8221; involved in there somewhere&#8230;
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:04:30 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Anon</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8701</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8701</guid>
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<p>Additionally, it probably doesn&#8217;t make sense to base your typographic decisions on a target number of saccades. The amount of information that can be taken in between each saccade varies so widely from person to person and across age, reading experience, lexile level of the text, etc, that it&#8217;s not really plannable. It&#8217;s useful to understand the concept of saccades as the physical explanation for a lot of typography/readability research findings, but in practice you should step up one level and use the findings rather than the underlying explanation.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 16:27:56 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Anon</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8700</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8700</guid>
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<p>I did my undergrad thesis on a closely related topic, and all of the serious research on this shows a clear, unquestionable relationship between line-length and line-height / spacing.
</p>
<p>
You really can&#8217;t have a productive discussion of line length without discussing height and spacing. This topic has been explored so extensively in real, peer-reviewed and published academic research studies that you can&#8217;t just say &#8220;Users will be perfectly fine reading longer columns of text.&#8221; It&#8217;s like saying &#8220;it&#8217;s perfectly fine to use Flash on any site you want&#8221; and leaving it as a blanket statement without even mentioning accessibility, seo, penetration, etc. It&#8217;s so vague and incomplete as to be misleading and effectively would be bad advice if followed literally.
</p>
<p>
To readers who want to know more, get on an academic research database and search for &#8216;readability&#8217;. There&#8217;s plenty of information out there waiting for those willing to search for it.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 16:19:52 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Daniel Bowling</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8685</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8685</guid>
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<p>I can&#8217;t help but wonder as well if there is a difference between serif and sans-serif typefaces. Even Bringhurst&#8217;s book specifically mentions serif type in the rule.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Daniel Bowling</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 11:42:47 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Prototyping with Production Purposes in Mind by John Grimes</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/prototyping-with-production-purposes-in-mind/#8677</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/prototyping-with-production-purposes-in-mind/#8677</guid>
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<p>@Brian I have played around a bit with having a &#8216;wireframing stylesheet&#8217; that I can include in and out when needed, but I think it is really only necessary when you want your interactive wireframes to look particularly impressive.
</p>
<p>
I find simpler and more efficient approach is to just create a bunch of grey boxes (using divs, 960.gs and some minimal CSS) to represent the layout of the new features, then fill those boxes with textual information about interactions, states and functionality. In the case of forms I just go ahead and markup the forms straight off. It is a very low-tech approach. :)
</p>
<p>
There is very little duplication of work doing it this way because you need that markup anyway, and the only CSS you need is to color the boxes different shades of grey to differentiate them from each other.
</p>
<p>
Incidentally I found a jQuery library the other day that you could use if you want to get a bit more sophisticated with representing different states in your wireframes: http://24ways.org/2008/easier-page-states-for-wireframes
</p>
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    <dc:creator>John Grimes</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 03:29:04 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Derek Kinsman</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8659</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8659</guid>
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<p>I&#8217;d have to agree with Antonio on this one. The tests from provided links were looking at how fast one can read through text, not what for readability or eye strain.
</p>
<p>
That said, this is an area that could probably use some more research/study. The medium (paper vs lcd) may affect this rule, but only in the sense that the light coming off the screen will burn your eyes out.
</p>
<p>
Plus research should never stop.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Derek Kinsman</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 13:43:37 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Antonio</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8658</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8658</guid>
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<p>Interesting article but I&#8217;m not convinced. The line length rule serves 3 purposes:
</p>
<p>
1. To help the reader easily find the next line of text.
<br />
2. To cause less distractions.
<br />
3. To not tire the reader.
</p>
<p>
All 3 improve readability. Speed and efficiency aren&#8217;t the main priorities of the rule. Speed actually doesn&#8217;t matter at all and faster reading could affect comprehension.
</p>
<p>
I think test is flawed because it&#8217;s measure the wrong attributes.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Antonio</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 13:26:59 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on Prototyping with Production Purposes in Mind by Brian Talbot</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/prototyping-with-production-purposes-in-mind/#8650</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/prototyping-with-production-purposes-in-mind/#8650</guid>
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<p><strong>@Jackson</strong> and <strong>@John</strong>, thanks for the thoughts. Its great to continue this discussion and find out how to make the process run smoothly in this context.
</p>
<p>
<strong>@John</strong>, I&#8217;m curious how you&#8217;ve managed the wireframe styling/presentation of new pages when working in a currently designed app/site. Do you have separate CSS files for wireframes and the final site design? Also, when working in these new pages, how do you find yourself describing interactions, states and functionality?
</p>
<p>
I like the idea of making this work more transparent to the client through your suggestion of weekly releases. It definitely fosters education on the design/UX process and why its there. I&#8217;d assume you&#8217;d need to set expectations with your client in a few ways with these releases, but aside from that, have you noticed any downsides to working this way?
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Brian Talbot</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 09:41:14 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Bobby Jack</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8649</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8649</guid>
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<p>Some interesting points here. I&#8217;ve often wondered about the line-length translation from print to web. Like other &#8216;rules&#8217; of print design - e.g. consistent vertical rhythm - they are far less relevant (if at all) to the web due to other factors - the web is NOT the same as a book or a piece of paper, people!
</p>
<p>
For example, I can think of a couple of reasons why line-length MAY be allowed to get longer on the web:
</p>
<p>
a) Writing *tends* to be in shorter paragraphs, broken up by blockquotes, lists, and other visual clues. Links, bold/italic text, and other graphics alongside the copy can all aid the eye when returning to the beginning of the line.
</p>
<p>
b) For some readers, the distance between the top of the viewport (think of this like a ruler or bookmark) might be much closer to the text itself than the top edge of a book (if no other aid is available). This can aid visual location, and scrolling down a page is natural and easy whilst reading a long article.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Bobby Jack</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 09:35:49 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by M. Jackson Wilkinson</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8647</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8647</guid>
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<p>@Jason: good call on the object distance point.
</p>
<p>
Based on my current understanding of the (limited) research I&#8217;ve read based on Tiff&#8217;s reply, though, the way we read would be impacted less favorably by the distance to the object than one might expect.
</p>
<p>
My understanding is that the time involved in the eye movements made while reading is fairly negligible, while the fixation of the eye on a set of characters is really what&#8217;s taking up the time.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>M. Jackson Wilkinson</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 08:27:10 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Jason Santa Maria</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8645</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8645</guid>
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<p>Nice article! This is a topic I&#8217;ve been interested in for a long time and would love to see (or conduct) some more testing someday. As some have mentioned above, the toughest thing here is to assign any rigid rules because the topic is so heavily tied to the design of the text. Typeface, size, leading, color, all play a big role in making things legible.
</p>
<p>
One other thing I didn&#8217;t see mentioned that could be a possible reason people are able to read longer lines on screen without a drop in efficiency: distance to screen. We&#8217;re generally farther away from a screen than we would be holding a book at half-arm&#8217;s length, meaning that our eyes have less distance to travel (and thus take less time to travel) to the beginning of the next line.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Jason Santa Maria</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 08:11:02 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by demetris</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8643</link>
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<p>Thanks for this piece!
</p>
<p>
Interestingly, Google Reader goes up to about 115cpl.&nbsp; And, for what is worth, I usually enjoy text in Google Reader more than I do at the original source.
</p>
<p>
My reading experience also agrees with what Doug says about paragraph length.&nbsp; Longer lines can make text look weird when paragraphs are short (and when paragraphs are separated by the full height of one line, as is the prevalent convention on the web).
</p>
<p>
Cheers!
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    <dc:creator>demetris</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 07:24:50 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by M. Jackson Wilkinson</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8642</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8642</guid>
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<p>Lots of great things to respond to:
</p>
<p>
@Jackson: Yeah, definitely agreed that this is far from conclusive, but I think it&#8217;s more valuable to note that the traditional limits may be limiting without reason.&nbsp; Experimentation by designers in this area should be welcomed and embraced.
</p>
<p>
@Victoria: Obviously I should do a bit deeper dive into the books to see what&#8217;s out there.&nbsp; I&#8217;ll see what I can come up with.
</p>
<p>
@Brian: There&#8217;s probably (my hunch) a significant impact from the role of the text being set.&nbsp; Text to be scanned probably calls for more fragmentation (more, shorter paragraphs and a shorter line length), while text to be absorbed&#8212;like an essay&#8212;may benefit from these longer lengths.&nbsp; It&#8217;d be an interesting factor to bring in, and things like journalism kinda fall in-between.
</p>
<p>
@Tiff: There&#8217;s a reason you&#8217;re one of my favorite people. Good food for thought there. I&#8217;ll have to look this stuff up, but if three saccades is 64-84, why not four saccades (which napkin math suggests is 85-112)?
</p>
<p>
@Wolf: True, but there may be something to the notion that efficiency (especially when it comes to comprehension) is dependent on comfort, especially over a longer span of time.&nbsp; If you&#8217;re able to quickly comprehend something, does that imply a level of reading ease/comfort? If so, providing text that is most quickly and easily understood is tantamount to providing the most comfortable text setting.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>M. Jackson Wilkinson</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 07:03:09 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Wolf</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8641</link>
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<p>It&#8217;s as much about comfort as it is about effiency and speed.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Wolf</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 03:43:40 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Tiff Fehr</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8639</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8639</guid>
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<p>Along the lines of what <a href="http://www.viget.com/about/team/davery">Doug Avery</a> mentioned above, I&#8217;ve studied reading and eye movement in cognitive science and design classes.&nbsp; The motions most often tied to line-length ideals are saccadic in nature:&nbsp; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_in_language_reading give a better summary than I could, with graphics.&nbsp; For both leading and line-length, studies of eye movement and how we read word shapes indicates you should not interrupt saccades.&nbsp; Instead set type at saccadic groups, like three saccades across a line.&nbsp; That happens to correspond to the 64-84 character line length—roughly 6-8 saccadic movements.&nbsp; At line break, it&#8217;s one smooth saccadic movement to find the next line, based on perpheral v. foveal vision (which is also why justified text becomes difficult to read&#8212;no perihperal cues).
</p>
<p>
Lots of geek-out stuff in there, really—probably too much for sane design discussions; leave cones, rods and hot/cold color palettes for later, for sure.&nbsp; However, I do recall a lesson about short sentence lengths on the web changing things up a bit.&nbsp; Same with text legibility and contrast.&nbsp; Studies on the ACM somewhere (shot not look them up again) indicated that eyestrain and/or dyslexia is more than often mapped to irregular saccadic movements.
</p>
<p>
Our sources for line-length design conventions may lack guts under scrutiny, but understanding vision adds back some of that grounding.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Tiff Fehr</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 00:18:49 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Kelly Gifford</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8634</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8634</guid>
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<p>Very interesting. 
</p>
<p>
I&#8217;d love to see more research how leading affects readability and if the same results hold true for older generations. There are so many factors involved that I think it&#8217;s hard to make a blanket statement.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Kelly Gifford</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 21:44:30 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Brian Wynne Williams</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8632</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8632</guid>
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<p>Interesting topic.&nbsp; Personally, I find long line-lengths to be more intimidating, for lack of a better word.&nbsp; So, if I come to such a page, there&#8217;s a much better chance that I&#8217;ll bounce out and decide not to read it at all.
</p>
<p>
This is probably related to my reason for preferring shorter line-lengths: scanability, for lack of an actual word.&nbsp; I find it much easier to scan a page of content that has more narrow columns of content.&nbsp; I can jump around, re-find my place, and quickly pick out sections of content that are most important to me.
</p>
<p>
If I&#8217;m committed to reading every word regardless of line-length (as was the assignment in the study you reference), I would expect that speed, efficiency, and comprehension would probably be about the same for me.&nbsp; But, frankly, I rarely ready every word&#8212;especially on the web&#8212;so I&#8217;d seek out a format that I can more easily scan.
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Brian Wynne Williams</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 20:35:06 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Doug Avery</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8631</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8631</guid>
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<p>I was always taught that the line-length rule was to help readers easy find their way back to the next line, and if this is indeed its purpose, a few other factors might come into play:
</p>
<p>
1) How long are your paragraphs? A strong visual cue for finding the &#8220;next line&#8221; is its distance from the beginning or end of a paragraph. The further you get from one end of a paragraph, the harder it seems to repeatedly find the next line. Inversely, it can be difficult to deal with lots of super-short paragraphs that stripe up the page. Stretching line-lengths can help keep long paragraphs to a healthy 4-8 lines, while reducing them might help bump up staccato &#8216;graphs to the same line number. 
</p>
<p>
2) How are the lines spaced? Compare the reading experience on Victoria&#8217;s <a href="http://www.humanfactors.com/downloads/feb03.asp">(excellent) link</a> to an article on <a href="http://arstechnica.com/">Ars Technica</a>: I definitely find the latter &#8216;preferable&#8217;, and (anecdotally, of course) don&#8217;t notice a drop-off in reading speed or focus. Spacing could be a third factor that interacts with the other two.
</p>
<p>
It&#8217;d be fun to see some research done with mixed factors like these, I imagine there are some semi-ideal ratios out there to find&#8230;
</p>
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    <dc:creator>Doug Avery</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:32:22 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Paul Kittredge</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8630</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8630</guid>
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<p>Very nice to know, Jackson. I&#8217;d always worried about that 75 character limit - glad to hear it&#8217;s not so relevant on the web.
</p>
]]></description>
    <dc:creator>Paul Kittredge</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:22:40 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Victoria Pickering</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8629</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8629</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>Thanks for questioning the standard wisdom of best line lengths.&nbsp; One of the interesting things, based on some research (http://www.humanfactors.com/downloads/feb03.asp), is that there may be a discrepancy between the line lengths that are most efficient for reading and the line lengths that people prefer - longer lines are more readable, but people prefer shorter lines.&nbsp; Do you know of any other research which tests user preferences for line lengths?
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    <dc:creator>Victoria Pickering</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 17:54:38 -0400</pubDate>
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    <title>Comment on The Line Length Misconception by Jackson Fox</title>
    <link>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8628</link>
<guid>http://www.viget.com/advance/the-line-length-misconception/#8628</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[
<p>It&#8217;s very interesting to me that there haven&#8217;t been any conclusive findings in this regard. Looking through some of the older studies cited in the study, it looks like you could cherry pick studies to show just about anything you want. 
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<p>
I might be a little cautious about tossing out the perceived wisdom.&nbsp; It&#8217;s true that the line lengths increased reading speed, but it doesn&#8217;t look like there are any meaningful conclusions to be drawn about optimal lengths for comprehension, efficiency, or even user preference. Of course, there weren&#8217;t any significant negative effects found either.
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<p>
In the end, it&#8217;s nice to know that I probably don&#8217;t need to be so anal about line lengths.
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<p>
PS: I really wish they&#8217;d published their full data tables.
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    <dc:creator>Jackson Fox</dc:creator>
    <pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 17:50:28 -0400</pubDate>
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