That said, no-one has ever written a game resource that trumps the mass-market Mystery Method book. You have to read that multiple times over several years to really get how amazing it is.

Agree with TFH on Roissy and Roosh.

As for the Game = pussy-begging idea you seem to have, I’ll give you that some guys are stuck in that mode of thinking. Having been in the community going on 5 years now I can say with authority they’re the minority. The community has come a LONG way in the past few years, and in a sense it’s going mainstream. You know what makes up the core of game these days? Qualification. That’s right, guys are actually looking inward and discovering for the first time in thier lives what qualities they actually want in a woman. This is way beyond looks we’re talking about here. Men are finally breaking free of conventional thinking and developing standards and as such we’re seeing some pushback in young men regarding the poor behaviors women have been demonstrating this past generation. I’m already seeing cracks in the status quo with regard to women trying to figure out how to measure up. If we can keep this going, younger women will actually start gravitating towards being sweet to men, something we haven’t seen in large numbers in society for decades now.

Furthermore, giving men the ability to decide for themselves if the woman meets their standars is the exact opposite of pussy-begging, as if they’re just going out trying to fuck anything with tits. They’re being more refined, having standards, and setting the bar for what women have to do to win THEM over. Long term this is a GOOD thing for all men in western society.

I mean lets be honest, none of these people are the kind that are asking the girl in biochemistry out for coffee or meeting girls at the campus bookstore. Restricting their time in the club due to commitments is preventing them from their only outlet to meet people.

“I choose not to believe it, therefore it is not true.”

I meant to comment on this when JS1 was new, but I forgot. Oh well, better late than never, right? Anyway, I couldn’t understand WHY Angelina thought that working at the t-shirt shop was ‘beneath her’. How was that really so different than bartending? Don’t both jobs entail working with the public? Don’t both jobs entail selling? Wouldn’t it be accurate to say that the main difference between the two jobs was the product being sold (drinks vs. t-shirts)? I see the two jobs as being more similar than different…

JJB

Just so I know for future reference, what exactly as Novy done to promote AVfM or MRA? Granted, I don’t follow MRA as closely as I used to, but I haven’t seen him produce any content that doesn’t have to do with trying to overthrow Game as it is commonly understood. Is his activism – which is what AVfM seemingly is all about – limited only to trying to dismantle Game or does he write on other things?

Both of those guys put themselves in the line of fire

Of course they did. That isn’t the issue. Paul Elam and Alek Novy aren’t above criticism. My issue with everything Novy is that he’s brought up 500 times than I actually see him around, and it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that he doesn’t have any sockpuppets, much less a million sockpuppets. I can’t even point out what should be an obvious fact without someone like Rmaxd accusing me of “constantly defending” Novy. I’m more concerned with things like that than one man like Novy who doesn’t seem to be around that much.

Both of those guys put themselves in the line of fire – though in very different ways. I’ll offer respect for Elam. I think he was an idiot in the Game debates, but overall he does more good than harm. But Novy? He talks a lot and trolls around looking for arguments, but I’m not aware of anything productive that he’s done.

As to a secret campaign to undermine Game. Wow, lol. As to Alek Novy, he has not only been hugely instrumental in getting AVfM on the map, but he has also had my back on every turn. I don�t give a fuck what anyone else thinks about him.

Good work going on here.

Face facts, IF it wasnt for Alek Novy & his band of retards spamming the crap out of AVFM for months on end, the debate on game would never have started in the first place

The post Elam referred to by Chateau was ancient history & nobody really gave a crap, as everyone knows Roissy knows jack shit about MRAs

Where ever Alek Novy & his band of retards turn up, your guaranteed a turn out of retards & pricks to defend his retarded theories

Alek Novys a man with a different opinion? Oh really PMAFT?

Alek Novy is the same retard who goes around posting HIS OWN VERSION OF GAME, & then claims game doesnt work?

It doesnt get more retarded …

In fact im not surprised PMAFT identifies with Novy, he did just state on dalrocks feminism was some accident of social discourse, or some shit …

Quit abusing the internet PMAFT walsh wants her dildo back …

Post pics of you & novy on the concordia PMAFT, or it didnt happen …

Game has come up like once or twice.

Paul has made some statements that it won’t be enough, as PM/AFT stated.

That’s all.

However, there has to be a rational explanation for the behavior that Paul Elam is exhibiting.

There is — Elam sometimes lets his emotions cloud his judgement. He’s done this sort of fight-picking before with other groups — tradtionalists, Manhood Academy (though they deserved it), his spat with Jack Donovan, etc. I’m not going to attack him for it because I’m guilty of the same thing — saying things purposefully to piss people off.

I don’t care. Like I said already, the work Elam does far outweighs his occasional nutty rant.

RE Elam’s opinion of game, I don’t care. The work he does for the MRM and men far outweighs his occasional mad outburst.

As for AlekNovy, he’s irrelevant. Talking about him merely gives him exposure he doesn’t deserve (yeah I know I’m guilty of this too). If you don’t like the “anti-gamers,” don’t read them, don’t talk about them, don’t even think about them.

If Paul Elam has nothing good to say about the PUA/Game/Roissy crowd, that’s entirely his business. Novy is another matter. He is routinely hyperbolic, pulls bullshit statistics out of his ass and regards anyone who disagrees with him (even on matters of the Atkins or Paleo diets) as “morons.” He is a disgrace to the MRM and an assclown to boot.

Frankly, I am at a total loss to see how anyone thinks Game is some kind of weapon against feminism. The disconnect on that is just bizarre; hence, my loss at why Game is even discussed at AVfM.

I think you’re overstating the case if you think that one comment at one blog (mine) from one commenter (and one that I’ve never seen comment before) has the ability to alter your feelings towards Game.

Regardless, there really can’t be a conspiracy theory against Game, so the entire argument is pointless. Elam, Novy, whoever can’t control Game or Gamers. Insofar as anyone says that there’s a conspiracy (I haven’t seen anyone say it, but I tend not to pay attention to much of the gossip in the Manosphere) is using the wrong terminology.

At the most, some of those guys don’t like Game and critique it on their own blogs and at others. That’s pretty much it. They exchange ideas – perhaps over email too. But “conspiracy theory” – if anyone calls it that then they are incorrect.

What I think people who laugh at Novy are correct about is that he continues to spout the same arguments based upon his own experiences which he has provided no proof of having experienced. He distorts Game into a caricature and goads Gamers and Game-advocates to somehow show him – prove to him – the Game is effective. How can that be accomplished? That is a nearly unprovable thing, scientifically speaking. Men either feel that Game has helped them and they recognize that, or they see that Game has been of no benefit, and then they move on to something else. If it is of no benefit then so what?

The thing that people see in Novy – which is what inspired the comment you link to – is that he is frothing at the mouth, but over what? He is hell-bent on proving that Game doesn’t work, but he has had an impossible time convincing those men for whom it has.

However, there has to be a rational explanation for the behavior that Paul Elam is exhibiting. Elam is not a stupid man, and he knew of the divisive consequences of his infamous “Chateau Bullshit” post long before he posted it. He even acknowledged this fact within the article itself. Elam’s early articles clearly show that the man has the health of the men’s movement as one of his primary concerns. It is very much against this concern for the health of the men’s movement to post such an article. So, why did he do it?

I think that many of the conspiracy theories, especially those involving Alek Novy, came about in trying to answer this question of why he did it.

I’m really tired of going to various blogs and reading another conspiracy theory about Paul Elam and/or Alek Novy. And that’s especially true when the subject matter of the post I’m reading has nothing to do with them.

Why Elam even bothers with game, pro or con, is a mystery. Whatever a man chooses to do with his dick is his own goddamned business, and Paul Elam should have nothing to say about it.

The MRM is turning into a cult just like feminism when it starts taking positions on men’s sexual behavior. The personal is NOT political!

I guarantee that Paul Elam doesn’t care what you do with your dick. He just thinks that game isn’t a total replacement for anti-feminist action since legal and political changes that need to be done to undo feminism. And Paul Elam is correct about that.

Why Elam even bothers with game, pro or con, is a mystery. Whatever a man chooses to do with his dick is his own goddamned business, and Paul Elam should have nothing to say about it.

The MRM is turning into a cult just like feminism when it starts taking positions on men’s sexual behavior. The personal is NOT political!