Diary of an Atheist

Kiva's Dirty Little Secret (they aren't secular)

2009-12-03T10:12:00.000-08:00

Kiva is the premier non-profit organization for microlending to borrowers in developing countries. To fund these loans, Kiva works with Field Partners located in the borrower's country. The Field Partners (also known as MFIs or MicroFinance Institutions) approve and disburse the loan to borrowers, while Kiva provides a fresh influx of capital to the MFI in order to make the loan happen and keep the MFI operating smoothly. The MFI, meanwhile, makes money on the loan by charging the borrower interest and fees associated with the loan. This is all a brilliant concept, and very efficient. Backslaps all around boys!

Well, you've heard the adage "Things are not always as they seem"? Sadly, this applies to Kiva. Kiva prides itself on transparency, and they also claim to be a secular organization. Here's where things turn sour.

Here is what a potential lender sees when they look at a loan they are interested in funding: (note that the MFIs appear on the right side of the screen)

HOPE
CREDIT
Esperanza
CCT

Most lenders never make it past these main borrower pages. If the borrower description suits them, and the MFI has a high star rating and low default rate, a loan is made. There is no reason other than curiosity which would bring a lender to the MFI description or webpage. And that is where Kiva's dirty little secret is uncovered.

Take a look at the information contained on the websites of these MFIs:

Hope International

"In addition to the microfinance program, HOPE also supports an active children's ministry in Ukraine. Tomorrow Clubs are after-school programs that teach children the gospel through games, skits and songs. Summer camps are run throughout the summer to serve areas where there are few churches and other ministry."
"But HOPE isn't only concerned with physical poverty. Christ-following loan officers share the hope of the Gospel in the context of relationships, ministering to spiritual poverty as well."

CREDIT:

"World Relief Canada, a co-founder of CREDIT and the second majority shareholder in CREDIT.
World Relief Canada partners with the Evangelical Church in Canada and overseas to respond to the basic needs of the world’s most oppressed, poor and suffering people, empowering them to meet their own needs in the name of Jesus Christ."

"...CREDIT continued its strong commitment to it Christian mission enabling its clients to achieve socio-economic transformation. Senior management and staff continued their practice of regularly devoting time to pray and seek God's will for the business, staff and clients...May God continue to bless and provide wisdom to CREDIT management and staff as they continue their work assisting the poor and vulnerable..."

Esperanza:

"Values:
-Following Christ and living the Gospel in all of our relationships
-Developing the whole person: body, mind, and spirit
-Learning from all those with whom we serve as we endeavor to teach truth

Esperanza will promote and support development policies, strategies and activities that:
-Free people from the bondage and oppression of cultural, social, spiritual and economic forces that inhibit becoming all that is intended"

CCT:

"About CCT:
CCT ministers to micro-entrepreneurs, service workers, itinerant vendors, orphans, and abandoned children in urban poor communities.

OUR VISION
We hope to see a network of Christ-centered faith communities where Jesus Christ is honored and worshipped and where people live with dignity and sufficiency in accordance with God’s plan for a just, humane, and caring society.

OUR MISSION
As followers of Jesus Christ, we join the Holy Spirit in God’s work of transforming lives and communities.

OUR DISTINCTIVE
We are Christian. We do everything for the glory of God, according to Biblical principles.
We are a prayerful, worshipping, serving, witnessing, and
discipling organization.

OUR ULTIMATE OBJECTIVE
is the Transformation of lives to become more like Jesus Christ, and transformation of communities to become Christ-centered."

There are many more MFIs just like this. I've purposely omitted the source links for this information. After all, it should be easy enough to identify the nature of these MFIs through Kiva, right?

If Kiva prides itself on being transparent, and if they are indeed a secular organization, then why don't they disclose the active religious nature of certain MFIs? Kiva's response to this is that each person making a loan must do their own due diligence with respect to the MFIs. But it is completely unreasonable to expect a person visiting a secular Microfinance website to investigate an MFI for criteria entirely unrelated to finance and loan repayment.

If I were making a charitable donation to OperationSmile or D-Pal (both secular charities), it's quite reasonable for me to assume that my money won't end up in the hands of a religious organization. The same reasoning applies to Kiva. The last thing I expect is that the interest and fees earned off of my loan money will go to build a church, send a kid to Jesus Camp, or buy bibles to be given away for free (except to me).

I and many others have petitioned Kiva to add a simple secular / religious indicator into the MFI information, which Kiva has refused. Other workarounds have been suggested, to no avail. Kiva simply will not disclose whether an MFI is religious or secular, to the detriment of thousands of people who are completely unaware of the problem. Churches are being built with the money of non-religious lenders who are unaware of this issue, yet supposedly-secular Kiva refuses to make this information readily available.

Kiva believes that the borrowers should be the focus of microfinance, and I agree. Unfortunately, religious groups are now involved and have turned the focus towards preaching Jesus on the interest earned on other peoples' money. Kiva could fix this problem simply by disclosing to the lenders whether MFIs are religious or not. Instead, they sit silent and hide behind 'due diligence'. If you'd like to voice your concern about this, contact Kiva and let them know this is a big problem. The fact that they won't do anything about it is what disturbs me the most...it's a very simple fix.

I have no problem with Kiva working with religious MFIs. But there is a very big problem when Kiva will not reasonably disclose whether an MFI has an active religious component to lenders who don't know any better. In the spirit of transparency, it's Kiva's responsibility to protect lenders from things like this.

I don't give money to my local church, so why on earth would I give the profits made on my loan to an MFI who will use it to brainwash people for Jesus?

There is no such thing as a free Bible...

2009-11-28T10:05:00.000-08:00

Why can't I get a free Bible?

So I tried getting a free Bible a few months ago from LESEA Broadcasting. These are the people who bring us The Jim Bakker Show, Jimmy Swaggart, and the like. I sometimes watch Bakker for laughs on the weekend; I can't figure out if the guy looks more like Master Yoda or the Grinch.

Anyways, LESEA ran a commercial that explicitly stated that I could request a free Bible from them. All I had to do was call their 800 number. So I did. The lady on the phone was nice enough, she took my information, I did a little wink-with-a-fist-pump gesture at my wife, and that was that. Then I waited. I waited until I forgot that I was waiting.

About a month later, the mailman drops off a rather flat and bible-free brochure from LESEA Broadcasting. My yes lit up as I read the brochure. LESEA proudly states that they have given away millions of bibles, and continue to do so. At this point I'm wondering what the hell is going on, where is my Bible, and they I read the next page. For my LOVE GIFT of $25, LESEA will send me a free Bible. My love gift will go towards free bibles for the third world.

Really, that is what it said. Even I didn't expect this. So distastefully bold, yet brilliant in execution.

Thwarted in my complimentary bible attempt, I began looking online for free bibles. Time and again, I find *free* Bibles that always require something. Either I must give a love gift, cover shipping costs, or sit-down with a kooky missionary. Gideon Bibles at hotel rooms aren't even free, the hotel will charge you a replacement fee.

Frustrated, I went to the Christianity.com website and found the following advice on requesting a free Bible:

1) Contact a local church (too many strings attached)
2) Download free Bible software (I don't want software, I want something I can read in post-apocalyptia)
3) Use a free online Bible (see #2 above)
4) Be a Philippines or Africa resident (what the hell?)
5) Contact a Bible Society (with a disclaimer that they offer bulk pricing discounts...so not free)

6) Contact FreeBibles.net (this one sounds promising, even if they say they only provide bibles to the needy or imprisoned)
7) FreeBibleSociety.org (this one sounds the most promising, no strings attached)

I went to FreeBibles.net and requested my free Bible. This did not come without strings though. In order to process my request, I had to attest to at least one of the following conditions:

-I am very poor
-I am very sick or homebound
-I am incarcerated

Not only did I have to attest to one of these conditions when I requested my Bible at the website, but I had to do it again in a follow-up email! Are they worried about people stealing Bibles? Is it even theologically possible to commit a crime while acquiring a God's Holy Word?

I also pursued the second option, FreeBibleSociety.org. This is supposedly the no-strings-attached option, and I like that. While filling in my information at the website, I'm greeted with a bolded text field which states that there is a 3 year waiting list for all Bible requests. Unbelievable. What if I get eaten by a shark next week? If Jesus knows the entire arc of my life, would he know that I was expecting a Bible to arrive in the future? Would He send me to Hell, then deliver a Bible to me in three years?

Undeterred by the delay since I plan on living, I completed my request. I then received an email from a William Watson, with a text file attached (this is a real asshole move by the way...computer viruses like to arrive as text files). I opened the file, and in it was more info on the waiting list, a comment on the small print size, and an admonishment to buy a Bible at a Dollar Tree store.

Hello-
Your request has been heard. At present there are over 4000 requests, but we will send you your Bible as soon as we are able. Please be patient. We receive more requests in one day than we are able to fulfill in a week. The fact that so many people want to read God's word is very encouraging, but delivery is slow going. You will receive your Bible in time.
It should also be noted that, because of the demand, only as many as 2 Bibles are sent at one time, unless extenuating circumstances exist. Also, the Bibles we are offering at this time are English language, KJV Bibles and the print is small. Special requests will try to be fulfilled, but in many cases they cannot be. Do not despair; we will see what we can do.
F.B.S.

Pss. For those in America, you should know that we buy our Bibles from The Dollar Tree stores and at dollartree.com. It is the inexpensive way to buy a Bible. We say this only because our list of requests is so long; it takes a long time for requests to be fulfilled. If you cannot wait, it is a way to get one quickly, for little money.
-----
Pss. IT IS WITH REGRET THAT WE MUST INFORM YOU THAT, AS OF AUGUST 1 2009, WE HAVE EXCEEDED 5000 REQUESTS AND IT MAY TAKE UP TO 3 YEARS FOR YOU TO RECEIVE YOUR BIBLE. SPECIAL NEEDS, SUCH AS ILLNESS AND THE LIKE, WILL TRY TO BE FULFILLED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, BUT FOR MOST, THE WAIT WILL BE A LONG ONE. WE ARE SORRY FOR THIS, BUT HAVE NO PHYSICAL WAY OF PREVENTING THE WAIT, AT THIS TIME. IT IS OUR DESIRE TO FULFILL EVERY REQUEST THOUGH. PATIENCE, IN THIS INSTANCE, WILL INDEED, BE A VIRTUE.
F.B.S.

Jesus Christ man, why is this so friggin' hard? All I want is a free Bible. I don't want to buy it, I don't want to move to Africa to get it, and I certainly don't want to receive it in prison.

Isn't this enough to realize that the Bible, Christianity and Jesus are all man-made? Wouldn't the beautiful baby Jesus provide me with a free, over-nighted, postage-paid, LARGE PRINT Bible?

Is God gay?

2009-04-04T01:42:00.000-07:00

Had a little chat with God the other day through the website http://www.titane.ca/igod

My suspicions about the Christian God are now confirmed true. God is a homosexual. Read below for the proof.

Me: Hi handsome

God: Hi there . And very self-confident.

Me: I usually am when I'm behind a computer and naked.

God: How often do you? Do you mind if I tell other people you are when you are
behind a computer and naked. ?

Me: I'd actually love it if you did, the more the better.

God: What would make you actually love it if me did the more the better?

Me: Oh I don't know, the thought of you all sitting there...thinking of me...

God: Next question? Would you like to know? Do you think about these things a lot? You are asking about yourself?

Me: I actually do. I've been diagnosed as a chronic masturbator by two different psychiatrists.

God: Do I? Where were you diagnosed as a chronic masturbator by two different psychiatrists?

Me: In grade school.

God: Tell me a little about your life in grade school.

Me: Well, let's see, it's basically just chock full of tissues and SI Swimsuit Editions.

God: How about that. That sounds good to me.

Me: Hmmm, this could be the start of something interesting...

God: Whoa. What does "this" refer to?

Me: I don't know...I was thinking you, me, maybe a bottle of wine and some music. Do you like Mike Bolton?

God: How do I know that you were really "thinking"? But I think airplanes are cool. I like the Bible.

Me: What are you wearing?

God: A white robe.

Me: Anything underneath that robe?

God: I can't think of anything. You think of something.

Me: kinky, very kinky...I like your style...

God: How old are you? You are not the only one. Yes I am proud of my style.

Me: Whoa, my boss is coming, gotta go!

God: Are we still talking about kinky very kinky?

The hatred of gays in the bible, all the fashion and behavior requirements for women, the sex obsession...it all makes sense now. God is gay.

I'll be back soon...

2009-03-01T23:43:00.000-08:00

I apologize for my absence. I'll be back soon after I take care of some family matters. Stay tuned for my thoughts on how absurd the 'free will' argument is, and what I think happens to babies in heaven.

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Conclusion

2009-02-08T11:56:00.000-08:00

We finally reach the conclusion of our Atheist / Christian debate. If you've just found this debate and would like to see the earlier parts, please follow the links below (or search in the right-hand margin).
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9

-----------------------------
From: Daniel
To: Julio
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 01:57:41 -0700

Lol, my dad's a physicist too, and this test is bullshit [walks out]. [editor's note: inside joke between Julio and me]

That's it then, I'm more than happy to leave this conversation where it lies. I've made my points, I feel they've been ignored, and there's no reason for me to keep making the same points over again with no direct answers. You've still not provided any proof for your God; you've only misrepresented my side of the discussion. I'm not going to fall into a trap of having the subject changed and then get sucked in to a discussion on the anatomy of a unicorn. I've already mentioned that it's acceptable to say 'I don't know' when asked about the beginnings of time, yet you contend that I must (and have) taken a position on how the universe began. You are the one making the claim for God and the creation of the universe, I've stated this multiple times, and you've still not answered with evidence. Your evidence for God is the same as my evidence for unicorns, Allah, the Hindu Gods, and the Easter Bunny. When you understand why it is that you dismiss everyone else's Gods, then you'll understand why I dismiss your God as well.

I've said it before, and in closing I may as well say it again. Evolution is an accepted scientific theory, the same as Gravity (which you find so compelling) and Relativity. The only reason you dispel Evolution is because your faith does not allow it, much the same way Heliocentrism was dispelled by those of faith. I explained to you why the other Apes did not evolve into humans, and rather than discuss the scientific aspects of it or the reasoning involved, you went way off course and attacked two words in my explanation. Honestly, is that your reasoning for why evolution is false? The reason why the other Apes have not evolved into humans is completely false because the definition of 'theory' and 'accepted' is disputed via wikipedia definitions? Redefining the term 'theory' from a non-scientific point of view does not disprove the idea, and is not even close to a rebuttal.

And if it makes you feel better, throw everything that I've said away and simply provide evidence for your God. I really don't care if you find Evolution to be true or if you believe the Law of Gravity to be true (after all, it's just a law defined by man right?); these things are not required in any way for the atheist viewpoint to be valid. Just give me the evidence for BibleGod, that's all. That's it, one piece of evidence. You've given me nothing this entire time. You feel that you've disproven my Loch Ness monster, which somehow proves that your Bigfoot exists? [insert link from CNN here...] No, you must still prove your Bigfoot. And there are many Bigfoots claimed by people all over the world, so you must also prove that yours is the REAL Bigfoot. I anticipate the sound of crickets chirping from the next email on this subject.

Please feel free to share this with as many people as you'd like, as I'm more than confident in the points that I've made. Is it okay if I do the same? I hate to see this time and effort go to waste without anyone ever seeing it and learning from it.

Evidence for BibleGod Julio, that's all I ask. You believe in Him, so give me the evidence, ANY evidence, that leads you to understand without a doubt that BibleGod is the one true Creator, over all the other Gods available. You should be able to go directly from your evidence to the statement, 'BibleGod must be the one true God, and Jesus is His son'. I will show your evidence to be highly suspect at a minimum, if not completely invalid. And I know I can do this, because your God is the same as every other God created in the minds of men throughout history, past, present, and future. It is completely imaginary.

Good luck, and may you be blessed by all that Allah has to offer you in this life,
Pastor D

-----------------------

Thank you very much for reading, hopefully you've enjoyed the discussion and have learned a few things about atheism and the atheistic perspective!

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 9

2009-02-02T11:13:00.000-08:00

This is our Christian subject's last post on the matter. My conclusion will be posted later this week, and will mark the conclusion of this discussion. In this email, we see more ridiculous assertions being made and more absurd questions being asked.

Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:49:12 -0700
From: Julio
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
To: Daniel

Hello my sunshine, sorry for the delayed response. I been putting in some crazy hours into this business and haven't had much time to sit down and shoot the breeze with my boy :-)

You seem to shut me down fairly quickly. You mention that I don't address your email when in fact I feel that I do. Questions like 'will your church allow you to.....etc' has been answered in my previous emails but I'm not sure if your doing speed reading and skipping here and there, but I have responded to you with the BEST of my knowledge, I have not simply told you 'end of discussion' or I'm not going to answer that. We're full grown men and I think we can carry a mature conversation without shutting down or getting frustrated. Patience is inside of you, you just gotta work it my nig!

Those websites you mentioned, I know nothing of and didn't bother going to the internet, again I'm answering to the best of MY knowledge. My 'crafty' words to describe theory is nothing crafty its just the simple plain definition just like looking up the word 'Giraffe'. A theory is a theory until proven otherwise. Take gravity, everyday I get out of bed hoping I can defy gravity like that nigga Jordan or fly like a bird but we know its not going to happen. Something (that being gravity) keeps us in order right here on the ground and I love it, I love science, I really do. All I'm trying to say is that there is no proof that we come from molecules, again, from a neutral persons point of view, WE WILL NEVER KNOW and that's just reality. We don't have solid fossils that are billions (not millions) of years old to show solid proof of how man became man, if I remember correctly the oldest fossil is no more than a couple hundred thousand years old. Let's just say I did believe this evolution theory, I still haven't been proven on how the Hominidae species got here in the first place, so I would still be stuck and be forced to believe in something that I have not seen, kind of like God.

Don't fight me and tell me that evolution takes million and millions of years because that statement in its own is already headed towards a guess, like my theory of God.

Just like we live gravity everyday and everyday gravity proves its self and its principals. I dropped a cup the other day and it broke, gravity reminded me of its principals and guess what! Gravity worked, it pulled the cup down (Don't you! My Dad's a Physicist!)[editor's note: inside joke]. I personally have applied certain biblical principles and they worked, would I have applied those principals if I never read the Bible more than likely the answer is 'no', for me at least. But that's me, I just feel in my heart that I would have never exercised these principals if it wasn't for this 'book'. Some people call it luck, chance, or coincidence and I keep quite and respect that (unless its the right time or they ask) but when I'm told that, all I can think of is that I just believe in something greater. I don't fight it, that's too complicated and puts more stress in my life, I just believe in it and move on. What can I say I'm human. If certain things go right for you and your beliefs cause you to give thanks to yourself only, then great, why fight it its too complicated to sit down and figure out who else to give thanks too for every thing that goes right in your life, that's your belief and I respect that.

That's another beauty of all this were all different, imagine everyone had the same personalities, gestures, voice, etc, that would be boring. Why are we all different? I don't know I just live with it and move on, to try to figure that out is too complicated. Why worry about something with insignificant value in our eyes, I have a family waiting for me everyday expecting nothing but the best from me, that in itself is hard work and enough worry. My best is directly connected to principals that I've learned from my little book, that's where I learned them and have succeeded. Your best is connected to something else, maybe principals that you've learned as you grew up or were taught by your family and whether you learned them or were told about them your credit goes to that person or book accordingly. If you read a book about family and because of that book you learned new principals/laws of family and due to that your family is at peace then I'm sure some credit would go to that book where you gained that knowledge, right?

My physical proof and evidence of existence of God/Jesus that you wish to see is as profoned as that one molecule where we came from that's billions and billions of years old that you have showed me and is held in that one museum..........there's is none to date for your argument or mine.

Sincerely,
Julio G-Strang

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 8

2009-01-29T10:53:00.001-08:00

Part 8 today, part 9 and the conclusion will follow as soon as I get a chance. I've been pretty busy with real work, my apologies for the delay.

PS: I still have comments to respond to. I always respond to my comments, so please hang in there until I get some time.

----- Original Message ----
From: Daniel
To: Julio
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2008 11:17:08 AM
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed

There's nothing more to discuss here. You are defining the scientific term 'theory' outside of the bounds of science. Did you know that gravity is also a theory? General Relativity, as Einstein 'shot from the hip' with, is also just a 'theory'. If you contend that theories are just complete guesses and speculation, then we can talk no further on this subject. I assume that you don't consider the rest of the 'theories' which you agree with to be merely guesses and speculation...it's only the ones that go against your faith which you MUST disagree with.

We still are left with myself ready to believe anything you want me to believe, as long as you provide evidence. You've not provided one shred of unambiguous evidence for your positive claim of God, or more importantly, Jesus. Rather than provide me the evidence for your positive claim, you instead have taken a .99c flyswatter to flail against the evil scientific community's unproven, untested, speculative 'guesses'. This does nothing to prove God or Jesus, and it does nothing to disprove the evidence which supports the theories of Evolution, Gravity, General Relativity, Conservation of Energy, etc. Science is founded on 'theories', and these theories can be (and are) testable, repeatable, and proven beyond a 'reasonable' doubt. Crafty word play on the definition of 'theory' does not change this fact.

Scientists are not evil, and science is not evil. The only people who oppose science are religious leaders (and their flocks of sheep), because it threatens the beliefs that they cling to. I've been to many creationist websites, and I can see that your information has come from there (or from someone who teaches creationism). I recognize the same arguments, the "God of the Gaps" ideas, and the misrepresentation of the word 'theory'. Perhaps you've been reading: http://www.answersingenesis.org/ , or http://www.allaboutcreation.org/ ? Equating scientific theories and religious 'theories' is probably another thing that creationism teaches, but it is completely wrong. Completely wrong. I could explain this to you in a simple sentence, but honestly if you can't figure this out, then there's no reason for me to tell you.

I'm not gonna sit here and teach you the theory of evolution. I gave a little explanation in the previous email, but it seems that you weren't interested in discussing the validity of the argument, but rather the semantics involved. I answered your question about apes and humans; if you want to know more, then you gotta take a real science class on it (a class that doesn't have the word 'creation' in it). Discuss your problems with the word 'theory' with the professor, and he'll clear it up for you (or maybe you'll clear it up for him). Will your church allow you to take a course on evolution (physical anthropology) at the local junior college, or is this frowned upon? Are you just choosing not to understand this?

"If I asked that your evolution belief doesn't allow you to believe in other things, your mind goes crazy and tells its self "is Julio crazy doesn't he know that, etc......""

My evolution 'belief' doesn't prevent me from believing other things. I could very well believe in God and evolution, no problem. Science doesn't tell me what I can and cannot do There is no agenda behind science, but there is an agenda behind anti-science. You're misrepresenting the stance of the non-religious, and you're again equating two things which are not equal.

"P.S-You still haven't answered my question. I am interested in knowing the reasons why you think a God "does" exist. You volunteered to let me know and asked if I was interested and I'm letting you know to give it to me my Nig!"

It's a waste of time/energy and will only lead us to discuss scripture forever and ever. If you begin providing evidence that God exists, and that Jesus is that God, then I'll give you my reasons. I was actually going to give you my reasons in an earlier email, but it got lost in the rest of the discussion.

You've made the claim for God and Jesus, still waiting for your evidence,
-Pastor D

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 7

2009-01-23T16:32:00.000-08:00

And so we've come to the last few installments of this debate. At this point, it's apparent that Julio's understanding of evolution (and science in general) is completely screwy , and has been poisoned by Christian propaganda and pseudo-science.

-------------------------------
To: Daniel
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
From: Julio
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 03:01:03 +0000

I'll try me best to keep this short.

Evolution is a theory! A theory, is a guess, a speculation or what you call "shooting from the hip". This Darwin guy who CAME UP with this explanation/belief (or rather enforced it to great measures) said it himself, its a "theory". Like I mentioned many emails ago that evolution is a form of belief for something that man has and will never see, obviously we can't be alive for 10 million years, so hence theory.

Part of evolution is mutation which makes it part of your belief, in other words when you see "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" you must be in "aww!". All kidding aside, and as a neutral party would say you or anyone for that matter cannot prove evolution for obvious reasons but yet you have faith in that "my son". If I questioned the very creator of this evolution theory, he would tell me the same "you just have to believe in this".

You're asking me to prove the existence of God when yet you yourself or anyone cannot prove evolution, and when I ask for proof I don't want a theory or old fossils that "might" lead us to "believe" in evolution. The chief weakness of evolution lies in the "many gaps" that are not filled. Scientist this very day are arguing and questioning these big gaps, this is were one of the many controversies of evolution begins, like immediate mutation compared to gradual mutation or if mutation exists period, yet another thing that is not proven but a simple theory.

Again, your belief is in Evolution, does it really exists? I don't know its still a theory, a speculation, a guess. In one of your emails you asked me to take a class but I have to go in their and "believe" not just go their to out right reject it, the point is you want me to go in their and believe. The belief in God is what many people say is another theory the only difference is what theory are you going to go with, both require faith. Yes, "faith"! Faith is not only a biblical term but part of the English language that means "confidence or trust in a thing". Your trust/confidence is in evolution, mine is in God.

Your quote:

"You have absolutely no scientific basis for believing that the theory of evolution is false. In fact, nobody does...that's why it's still accepted as fact."

Two words in your statement that stand out about the very solid proof of our evolution existence, you mentioned "theory" and "accepted". Both have to do with something that is not sure and like Christianity is accepted. So the very thing that you call silly because of no proof or lack of substantial proof is exactly what you believe in. Your theory is that we were all molecules millions and billions of years ago and some how all these molecules got to together to form your stomach, your heart, your lungs, your brain, your miles and miles of veins, and uniquely these molecules knew there had to be a penis and vagina for reproduction but most importantly the molecules understood the entire function of the body and how every organ is critical for our well being.

And to clarify, its not that I'm allowed or not allowed to believe in other things, its purely by choice. The same exact choice and flexibility you had to change from a Christian to an agnostic/Atheist is the same flexibilty I have, were no different in that regard. Yet you choose what you choose, again purely by choice. If I asked that your evolution belief doesn't allow you to believe in other things, your mind goes crazy and tells its self "is Julio crazy doesn't he know that, etc......" Well that's the same exact thing that goes through my mind.

P.S-You still haven't answered my question. I am interested in knowing the reasons why you think a God "does" exist. You volunteered to let me know and asked if I was interested and I'm letting you know to give it to me my Nig!
(I want you to make it a point to respond to this on your next email)

I tried to keep it short but I think I failed.

Sincerely,
Donatello (I think its the red turtle)!

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 6

2009-01-18T13:13:00.000-08:00

What do you get when you mix together Bill Gates, atheism, Warren Buffet, Evolution, Creationism, 'The Secret' and unicorns? A shitload of frustration...

------------------------
To: Daniel
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
From: Julio
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008

You are either reading to quickly through my careless email to you and not understanding. I really don't want to go through the same thing twice, for example:

Your Bill & Warren example.

You got what I was trying to communicate just that you always have your guard up, this is a "discussion" not a battle that's why we told each other in the beggining about being open minded about our responses. Thus far you have had a closed mind. Yes! I would want to ask Bill & Warren that one question, again, that's why its important to have success to attract. You can't tell me that success (again, don't just think money) has nothing to do with attraction! Once you attract that person or a group due to your success where they go next is totally up to the person being looked up too. This true whether you believe in evolution, God, Allah,etc. Success attracts, period! I will take that person to different mindset than what you would and vice versa, its kinda like a race foo'. I'm just answering your "God doesn't give a dam" part of your reply.

The other responses you have about consistency I am not going to bother answering and waste my finger tips since you already said you don't want to discuss anything about "unicorns" unless you believe it exists.

"You don't understand evolution"

The same frustration that goes through your mind on how I lack "evolution" knowledge is exactly how I feel about you lacking knowledge about other beliefs. I don't have to go through a Anthropology class to tell you that scientist have a belief too!

Example: When I was a lil' younger I was in a class that had to do with creation/evolution. Let me break this down to you from my eyes. Scientist do have these fossils and evidence (whatever it may be), your right! Let me tell you where my problem is about this so called "evidence". After lining up all these fossils and discoveries that date many centuries, after reading big fat/thick text books(hmm, that sounds familiar),anyways, after hundreds of years of "evidence" these scientist discovered and they keep collecting, this is what it says in a nutshell "scientist discovered X fossils or made X discoveries, this is why scientist BELIEVE that humans/creation/evolution exist or have evolved to......."This is what it says in all the textbooks in the world that you call "evidence". That word "BELIEVE" is in their, this means that its a belief in something that they have not seen they don't have that one piece of evidence that can GUARANTEE 100% on how man came to be man.

If I'm wrong please enlighten me, don't just shut down on me and say "you don't understand so I won't answer that part of this discussion." Here is your chance to win a "soul" for the atheist. Why the heck would I wanna be warned about "creationist" websites when I have the King Atheist at my finger tips, give it to me and give it to me raw!

So the question stands, "does evolution exist"?

What would it take for me to stop believing in God?

For the sake of discussion, here you go! I want to see the precise hard evidence that shows how man became man? I want you to tell me how the Ape came and was born in this world? I want to know how the very first mammal was created? Why haven't the Apes on this Earth turned into Human Beings if this is their so called process? (Its tough I know, but your belief is in scientist and "limited" fossils and evidence that's here now, the magic word will always be there forever "scientist BELIEVE...")

Hit me off Pastor D!

Sincerely,
Captain America

----------------------------------

From: Daniel
To: Julio
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:35:27 -0700

The evidence that we evolved from Apes is much greater than the evidence that we were created as-is by God. An understanding of evolution is key to understanding this.

What class did you take on evolution? If it consisted of creationism, than it is not a science class at all. Creationism is not science, because it cannot be proven or disproven. Science can be disproven by anyone, anywhere. Have you actually tried disproving the theory of evolution, or are you just shooting from the hip?

You can no more prove that God created us than I can prove that we were created by martians. However, the difference is that I do not need to prove to you that Unicorns don't exist. You are the one making the claim for God, so it is up to you to prove your claim. You've done nothing but preach and draw odd conclusions for Jesus based on financial success. That is not proof.

Again, you show that you don't understand the theory of evolution with your question about why Apes have not yet turned into human beings. If you want to understand evolution, than I suggest you take a course on Physical Anthropology and Evolution from an accredited college, non-religious school, and discuss why it is all fake with the Professor. It could do wonders for you: There is a person that we both know who went from Christian to agnostic/atheist based almost solely on a Physical Anthropology class. Of course, maybe your religious convictions prevent you from learning anything that goes against it?

It is completely acceptable to answer the question "Where did life begin" with a simple "I don't know". There is no reason to say that you do know, when you don't. I do not know. That doesn't mean I will never know. For example, fifty years ago nobody would have dreamed that the internet was possible. Does that mean that it was impossible? Of course not. It's possible that we'll learn the origin of life, and it's possible that we won't. What we shouldn't be doing is filling in the blanks based on a book full of evil deeds, magic spells and scientific impossibilities, and pretend that we know. We shouldn't be obstructing the very science that can uncover the answers to our existence.

I've said a couple times now that I'm ready to learn about why God exists, and why Jesus is that God. You've done nothing to prove to me that it exists. Do I know where we came from? Of course not. Do you know where we came from? Apparently, yes. You know exactly how the universe began, and exactly what happens when we die, and exactly which God is the correct God. You know that evolution is impossible for man (no matter the evidence), that gay people cannot be born gay (no matter the evidence), and that saying "fuck" makes Jesus sad. And all of that without any type of science whatsoever. It's so simple!

I, on the other hand, do not know these things. I am more than ready to learn them, but the extraordinary claims that you make require extraordinary evidence to support them. You've provided nothing to back up your claims. Why, in a hundred billion years, would I ever believe you when you don't give me proof, logical argument, and rational reasoning? Is it because I should be scared of Hell? Or maybe I should just be really happy to go to Heaven? Is it because I'll be rich or successful? Maybe I'm secretly feeling lost, and I'm longing for that little extra something?

The only people who have a problem with science are those who are scared of it disproving their most cherished beliefs. You have absolutely no scientific basis for believing that the theory of evolution is false. In fact, nobody does...that's why it's still accepted as fact. Anybody, any single person on this earth, is welcome to disprove it and show that the evidence is wrong, and scientists would have to accept it. You are also welcome to prove that the theory of gravity is false, any time you please. Nobody has.

"The other responses you have about consistency I am not going to bother answering and waste my finger tips since you already said you don't want to discuss anything about "unicorns" unless you believe it exists."

I'm more than happy keeping it right there if you'd like. There's nothing more to be said if you can't at least show me why it's more likely that God exists than not. If I wanted a sermon, I'd go to church. But there's nothing at church except a guy describing an invisible unicorn to people...and those people are taught not to question whether the unicorn exists.

Pastor D

--------------------------------------

EDITOR'S NOTE:
At this point I'm ready to drive my head through a wall. It's so frustrating, that I actually send Julio a follow-up email and begin to explain the very basics of evolution. Not that it would get me anywhere, but it sure as hell made me feel better.

From: Daniel
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:59:36 -0700
To: Julio
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed

You want some understanding of evolution, I'll give you a little bit with a response to your "Apes" thing, just to show you that I'm not bullshitting you. Honestly, I'm not teaching you evolution...you want to understand, you gotta get a formal teaching in a college class. And I may be a bit rusty on it, but I got teh core down.

For evolution to occur, there needs to be a couple things:
1) A need to evolve
2) Time, and lots of it

Apes have evolved over time, millions of years. The apes that you see today are different than their ancestors were 10 million years ago. They evolved because they had a need to evolve as a species (ie have better defenses against predators, live in safer places, etc).

The apes that you see today occupy their niche in nature quite well. Thus, they have no real need to evolve. But aren't they going extinct, you ask? Why yes grasshopper, they are! But that is because we are taking their land, and hunting them for meat. But don't they have a reason to evolve then? Why yes, they do! But they don't have millions of years to evolve anymore, because we are here. We shit all over the creatures of the earth. We take their space, eat them, domesticate them, whatever.

The very nature of evolution means that we cannot see it occur today in real-time. That's really a silly suggestion, completely counter to what it's all about. Evolution needs time. The fossil record, however, shows evolution progressing. You can see creatures of all types changing over time, including Apes. If you aren't allowed to believe in that sort of thing though, I don't really know what to tell you. You can see it for yourself in class anytime you want, but not if you flat-out refuse to believe it. Your refusal doesn't change the data though.

Why didn't the other apes become humans too? Because they had no need to. They occupy their niche well. Why aren't all dog species the same (wolves, dingos, domesticated, etc)? Why aren't all cats the same (lions, tigers, cheetahs, etc)? Because they don't need to be, each one works well where it is.

There you go, that's why Apes are not human beings, and that's why it's just a strange question to begin with. It's evolution, I don't know what else to tell you. If you don't want to accept it, then there's nothing I can do. I can't unaccept it, because it's real, accurate, and scientifically supported by evidence. It would be like unaccepting that 2+2=4.

BTW, feel free to share this entire email chain with anyone you'd like, including your pastor. I'd like to hear what he has to say about it. Trick him, tell him that you're seriously having your doubts about Jesus, and see what his response is. "You just gotta have faith, my son". I bet, for sure, that he won't respond 'scientifically'.

pastor d

-----------------------------------

Where does it go from here? Check back next week to find out!

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 5

2009-01-10T16:16:00.000-08:00

Provided for your enjoyment is the latest installment of our discussion. Things are starting to heat up a bit as the responses are getting more direct and to the point.
----------------------------
From: Daniel
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:22:35 -0700
To: Julio
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed

Your original email, upon further review, is describing the intricate details of something which is unproven and illogical. It is the same as if I wrote a lengthy dissertation on the anatomy of a unicorn. You don't believe in unicorns, so when I talk about them, you wouldn't really have anything to say other than, "Prove to me that a unicorn exists before you start explaining things about it".

So, I'll respond with the short version. Everything in quotes is from your email.

"Well everything that I base myself on is what is extracted from the bible"

That doesn't mean the bible is the true word of God, or that anything within it is based on fact. A child can base their behavior off of Captain America. That doesn't mean that Captain America exists, or that he has magical powers.

"A few years passed and after studying and learning that He (God) wants nothing but the best for us..."

I want nothing but the best for me too. I don't need God for me to understand this, and I don't need to believe in magic in order to make this happen for me. I'm completely happy without God, as are millions of atheists (and Buddhists) around the world.

"As an individual here on Earth, if I spoke to you about the Word of God and you seen my sad and depressing life would it be attractive enough for you to ask me "Hey Julio, what is it in your life 'cause I want the same?". What if it was the opposite, would you then care to ask that one question that can possibly lead to greater things?"

Believing in Jesus has nothing to do with success or failure, happiness or sadness. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are two of the richest men in the world, and they don't believe in Jesus. Do you care to ask them the one question that could possibly lead to greater things?

"The same fuel that keeps your fire burning about a non existent God, that turning point in your life should have been used to drive you to hit it harder, so next time a question comes up you might be able to respond."

I've already answered this with my Easter Bunny analogy. Believing in unbelievable things is ridiculous, irrational and illogical. There is no response, other than "you gotta have faith". Do you have faith in the Easter Bunny? Would you be respectful of me if I believed in the Easter Bunny with all my heart, and told everyone that they were going to hell if they didn't also believe?

"He is a consistent God"

And if your consistent God called for the stoning of homosexuals, then you can only assume that, being consistent, he would still be happy if we did that today. If not, then he is inconsistent. We are not God; Just because we don't want to do that today doesn't mean that God wouldn't still be happy if we did. Two-thousand years ago, believers stoned homosexuals, and God was happy. God has not changed, and man can't change God. Jesus dying for our sins didn't change the things that makes God happy, or change his instructions for how to deal with abominations.

Everything else I'm reading is citing the Bible and what God says. I believe the Bible the same way that you believe the Koran. I believe what God says the same way you believe what Brahma and Shiva say. In other words, I don't. You are explaining the anatomy of a unicorn to me, and I don't believe in unicorns. There's really nothing for me to respond to, other than to ask you to prove that Jesus is real, and that he is better than Allah, Brahma, and the Jewish God Yahweh.

"...there are questions about your beliefs as well as mine that cannot be answered, period. I believe this world was created by God, you believe its a science. If we were both asked to prove it well you simply would just have to believe and have faith in science, while I would have to have faith in God. No human being was alive when Earth was physically created so in essence you do believe in a "story" that's told by scientist, that's your religion/belief/truth per say, that's still a form of belief or faith in something that you did not see or that anyone seen for that matter. You can say, "its silly to think that God simply created man" and ask "prove it Julio". I can turn around and ask you "prove to me that man evolved from Ape", you can't. I been alive 28 years on this Earth and I haven't seen any Fox 11 breaking news that a zoo has an Ape that finally turned into a Man. If Man truly evolved from an Ape then why the heck are all these Apes dying without going through their "normal" process of becoming a human being, rather silly don't you think?"

1) Most questions about your belief in Jesus can be answered, if you want to answer them.

2) Science consists of evidence which can be proven or disproven. You are more than welcome to disprove any scientific theory you like, at any time. Submit your evidence for why any theory is false to the scientific community for peer review, and they will either agree or disagree based on your evidence. Faith, on the other hand, requires you to believe things based on a lack of evidence.

By the way, did you answer my question: "What would it take for you to stop believing in God?"

3) You completely don't understand evolution. Please don't take that personally, it's not meant to be mean. I don't understand Real Estate, no big deal. Physical Anthropology 1, at the local community college, will explain evolution. With evidence, with fossils, with complete explanation; no faith involved. Everything you could possibly want to know about Evolution, right there in front of you.

I'm not going to explain evolution to you. However, I would suggest staying off of creationist websites because they are intentionally misleading about evolution. I just had a youth pastor ask me for my opinion of a website's "facts" on evolution. I broke everything down for him, and he was surprised that it was so misleading. Intentionally misleading.

Please don't explain the details and cite the Bible as your source, because you haven't proven the Bible yet. I want to see proof of why Jesus exists before there's any discussion of why he loves me. You wouldn't want me explaining the anatomy of a unicorn to you without first proving the unicorn, right?

"When will you stop investing your time in trying to convince people that God doesn't exist and start looking for this god of yours that might exist?"

I'm ready to find God, which one do I start with? What evidence should I begin reviewing in my search?

I'm not gonna be around this weekend to answer/read this stuff, but if you send it i'll check it out when i get back.

later,
pastor d

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 4

2009-01-06T00:20:00.000-08:00

We pick up the discussion again with a series of shorter emails and quick exchanges. If you've missed the first parts of the discussion, they are located here:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Check back later this week for part 5 of An Atheist and Christian Debate.

From: Daniel
To: Julio
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:38:44 -0700
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed

lol @ Mexican Ape, gimme some time to respond to this. i will say quickly that Bill the Janitor definitely would be jealous, regardless of whether he has a right to feel jealous or not. i also add that, sometimes when people are laughed at for thinking silly things, it's because they really are thinking silly things. if i told you i believed in the easter bunny, you would have every right to laugh at me and question me. should i continue driving on in my easter bunny belief, or consider that maybe that the easter bunny doesn't exist?

sorry for the grammar, i got some other stuff i'm doing and can't take too much time here

word
dan

-----------------------
From: Julio
To: Daniel
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:57:05 +0000

Take your time, no rush. I understand this can get long and get the mind thinking.
I have never heard of the easter bunny belief ever in my life, I thought it was just a cute trademark all this time. Maybe you can fill me in on that as well Pastor D.

Ughhh!!!
-Julio

-----------------------
From: Daniel
To: Julio
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 12:12:32 PM
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed

You've never heard of the Easter Bunny? That's the bunny that hops like a bunny, but lays eggs like a chicken. Where do you think all those eggs come from on Easter? I'm telling you, you gotta believe in the Easter Bunny. Some people claim that since I can't prove the Easter Bunny, that this means that He doesn't exist. But they are silly, because we all know that they can't prove that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist. Ha, what do you think of that!? You know what else I tell them? I tell them that I see, hear and feel Lord Bunnies presence every day. There are people who have been healed by the Easter Bunny...people with poor eyesight have been healed by Lord Bunnies magical carrots. Why don't you tell those people that the Easter Bunny is fake! Just today, I asked the Easter Bunny for strength and confidence...I'm feeling better already!

Even the Easter Bunny says, 'You must become like little children in order to gain entrance into my garden." Is it any wonder that millions of children across the world believe in the Easter Bunny? I say that the only reason people can't see the Easter Bunny, is because they don't want to see. Their minds are closed to the truths of the Easter Bunny.

PS: If you don't believe in the Easter Bunny, you're going to hell forever.

-dan

-----------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:57:10 -0700
From: Julio
To: Daniel
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed

Let's not get facetious....stick to the topic at hand before I slap you across the neck!!

-julio

-----------------------
From: Daniel
To: Julio
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 1:26:16 PM
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed

Actually, that's not being facetious. I'm making the point that believing in God and Jesus is based on the exact same logic and thinking. There's no evidence that God or Jesus exists any more than unicorns, Santa Claus or magical fairies.

The only supposed evidence for Jesus (as the Messiah) comes from the Bible...much like evidence for Zeus and unicorns comes from Greek mythology. In fact, mythology at least included illustrations and drawings of their fictional beings. Did any of the disciples ever draw a picture of Jesus? Isn't it strange that the only images of Jesus that we have come a thousand years later by painters and sculptors, when he's shown as an Italian guy? Jesus was supposed to have shown himself to about 400 people after rising from the dead. Wow, that's pretty underwhelming to say the least. He could have returned as a huge being over the entire earth, to all peoples. Everyone on earth would have wrote about it, and it would STILL require faith to believe that it happened. But he didn't do this...and even the 400 people didn't write about what they saw. Just the four. In short, using the Bible as evidence for Jesus is like using Hyundai sales material as evidence that they are good cars.

Prayer does not work, yet people delude themselves into thinking that it does. Once the question arises, "Well, let's test it by praying for peace on earth, or food for starving children, etc", an excuse is made. Christians go to their 'safe zone' every time someone wants to test things out. Yet just last night on "The Dog Whisperer", there's a Christian claiming that Jesus answered his prayer for dog help by sending out Caesar Millan. It's really disgusting...this guy thinks Jesus cares about his dog, while children are being raped and murdered in the Sudan. But he thinks this, he truly believes that God sent Caesar for him.

I haven't spent much on this because I'm actually in a discussion on my gaming forum about this very thing. Here's a question I've asked them:

"What would it take for you as a Christian to stop believing in God and Jesus?"

What would your answer to this question be, my Mexican Ape friend?

Of course, there have not been any answers on the forums, because NOTHING can cause you to stop believing. That is why these discussions cannot be undergone in a rational and reasonable way. Atheists can believe anything, we aren't set in our ways at all. We just require evidence before we start believing in unreasonable things that go counter to the evidence we have. My evidence says that people cannot walk on water: Four people claiming that it happened 2000 years ago, and 40 years after the event, is not enough to change this. If this is proof for you, than I suggest you also read about Joseph Smith and the Mormons. They claim miracles that occurred just 150 years ago! Isn't that proof and evidence more reliable?

For the record, there are quite a few things that I can think of which would cause me to seriously consider that God exists. I'll let you know if you're interested.

Gotta go, Big Smooth just walked in.

dan

-----------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:00:11 -0700
From: Julio
To: Daniel
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed

Pastor D,
I'm not sure if your last emails were your official response to my novel that I wrote to you and I appreciate the large quantity of questions that you have. I feel that I have answered most of yours as best as I could as we go back and forth. I have yet to receive the answers to the questions that I had for you in my last "lengthy" response, for the sake of discussion I feel its only fair that you answer the questions I have about your "scientifical religion/belief". Is this forthcoming or am I just holding my breath for nothing here.

"For the record, there are quite a few things that I can think of which would cause me to seriously consider that God exists. I'll let you know if you're interested."

Of course I would like to know, this is what were here for to communicate with one another foo'!
Your Playboy Bunny,
Julio

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 3

2008-12-31T01:02:00.000-08:00

Just in time for the New Year holiday, I bring you the third installment of Julio and I going at it. Stay tuned, there is still much more to come. I've made a minor edit to the name of our workplace, and clarified the quoting and format, but otherwise everything is verbatim from the email.

Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 00:53:12 -0700
From: Julio
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
To: Daniel

Hello Pastor D, I'll get straight to it just like your neck:-)

Your response......"There is nothing you've stated that requires the Bible or Jesus....."

Well everything that I base myself on is what is extracted from the bible in regards to the "truths and principals" in itself, without studying it this conversation would have ended at "We needed your input". Maybe I was misunderstood, there aren't "different levels" of heaven rather different positions. Just like here on Earth, same Earth but everyone has different positions, Bill the janitor is a janitor (or was, not sure) but why in the world do you hold a higher position than him as knowledgeable technician? He shouldn't be jealous because I'm sure that any wise and common sense person, like Bill, would tell you that he has no reason in his right mind to be jealous, you have earned the position that your in because of your labor/work that you have put in, or lack of. If you made it big time at (edit: workplace removed), as an X Class Engineer, knowing you put in diligent work and say I didn't, then the fact that I was lazy and settled for less because I'm happy with my little Tech position, then the understanding is obvious no extra effort, no extra rewards.

"Success" here on Earth is definitely not just financially, like I mentioned before, success is a well balanced life. Success includes your family, your relationships, physical (health), mentally, spiritually, etc. Conformity in this world has caused a lot of people to think and connect success with money. Success on this Earth is a major role to God's ultimate plan. Example: When I use to work at the Morgue (I was about 17-18yrs old), very frequently I use to have to go to downtown LA to pick up a Catholic priest at his apartment that was going to do the funeral service. Well obviously he talked about God and his personal life. On our little journey back to the morgue he mentioned he wasn't married, no family, no children, no car to get around and he projected loneliness; he preached to me like any other priest would about following the Word. I remember telling myself "if this is an end result of following God, I DON'T WANT THAT". A few years passed and after studying and learning that He (God) wants nothing but the best for us, I understood that people were too busy trying to "interpret" the principals of the bible but its there in plain English, there's nothing to interpret, He wants nothing but the best.

As an individual here on Earth, if I spoke to you about the Word of God and you seen my sad and depressing life would it be attractive enough for you to ask me "Hey Julio, what is it in your life 'cause I want the same?". What if it was the opposite, would you then care to ask that one question that can possibly lead to greater things? So, would you? The reality is success (don't just think money) here on Earth is important to attract the multitudes, makes sense right? Jesus was attractive to a lot of people, he had success here on Earth in the flesh, and when the people asked the "why", all glory went to God.

In response to [what you've said]: "You mention that you aren't perfect as a Christian. Perhaps you would be a more perfect Christian if you focused more on church and Christ, as opposed to work and success?"

My personal focus here on Earth is on God's original plan, who says you can't strive here on Earth and have fine things and work on God's plan concurrently. You were able to go to DeVry and study something you enjoyed while possibly focusing and working on other things right? I know I was able too, going to school & working, (edit: workplace removed) and real estate all while developing my faith and knowledge; we call it multi-tasking, being productive, getting busy. When I stated that I wasn't perfect it was geared more towards that I can do a lot more in respect to my life spiritually, physically, mentally, financially, etc. Putting in work for the "church" comes in many ways, church to many people is a physical building that in their eyes is holy. As soon as they drive up to the parking lot they turn to this obedient individual because they give weight to the physical structure they are about to walk into. It says in the bible "we are the church", are body is the temple, the house of the holy spirit. Once that building is empty its no longer holy, in other words where ever we are at we ourselves make that place what it is, the physical place doesn't make us.

Your statement "Have you forgotten, the rich man will find it easier to pass through the eye of the needle than gain entrance to Heaven?"

If you read only one verse prior to that you'll read that the young man Jesus was talking too was a young man who said "he went away sorrowful for he had great possessions" in other words, his possessions he was asked to give up were greater or meant more than doing God's purpose. So "yes" if your possessions/riches mean more to you than God's purpose it doesn't matter how much chedda you have, its going to be difficult. Remember He only doesn't seek a relationship with me but yet everyone, to think of only one relationship is too small for Him, but everyone here on Earth now that's big thinking.

Due to my beliefs I will give you my amateur opinion on why I feel its incorrect to be gay. Before I get to the "gay" portion of this, I want to make clear about the woman part, God created "Man" (that is mankind) which includes both male and female in his own image, which means he made them both equal. He also gave a mandate for mankind to subdue the Earth (that is have dominion over all Earth) and MULTIPLY. See God created the principal of the "seed" (for multiplication), everything on Earth has the ability to multiply itself.

Let me ask you a question, if you didn't marry a woman/female how would you be able to create another human being? You and every single living being out here has the seed; male and female are created uniquely for recreation, how can you multiply with male-to-male or female-to-female? You can't! So it goes against His word, His principal of the seed and if it goes against His principal of multiplication then you are knowingly rejecting Him. As you stated, what he wanted in the beginning is what he wants today, you're so right about that, He is a consistent God. Not to say if I ran into a gay person or happen to associate with a gay person, I dislike them and want to bash them, not at all, I would respect and love them as a human being but I would disapprove of their ways based on principals. Remember, God spoke to everyone, believers, non-believers, people of influence & people with no influence, the poor, the rich, etc. He didn't leave anyone out of the possibility of change!

Its tough as a 5th-6th grader to have a good understanding of the word and the true purpose, but the good news is that "yes" it only takes one time. You don't need to be the perfect human being to accept Him but remember the "knowledge of the truth" is whats sets us free. See once you have knowledge of the truth then there's no excuse to say "I didn't know", once you gain that knowledge it is your responsibility to act on it. Then you might say "ignorance is bliss" but ignorance kills. God didn't and doesn't create evil, if man disobeys then he gives birth to evil/consequences, but if he obeys then he gives birth to life. Obedience or disobedience gives birth to that "action" that is being taken. Example: There is a person who has an eating disorder, well just because they do all of God's works this doesn't mean that they won't pay the consequences of their actions in the flesh, there are Earthly/Physical principals being violated and that person will more than likely suffer from those consequences. Miracle acts (or as you would call it, the unexplainable) here on Earth is NOT the rule, miracles are the exception. Principals/Laws whether earthly or spiritually are placed to maintain order. Another reason why its important to know the earthly principals, like gravity, without gravity there wouldn't be order, without many things here on earth there wouldn't be any order.

Again, I'm just an amateur in all this. Prayer is something very touchy and at times difficult to understand. I'm not sure how you were taught the Word when growing up as a Christian but from my understanding and studying here's my take. God has given us ALL things (all means all, there is nothing outside of "all") he has given everyone the same resources and the same 24 hours as anyone on this planet. When God says you have been given "all" things and your faith is in-line with that, then asking God through prayer for something he has already done is rather insulting. So prayer becomes a declaration of things already done, a spirit of thanks giving. Instead of praying "God can you give me....." it should rather be "God thank you for giving us.....". If I need a pencil and you hand it to me but I keep asking for it while its already in my hands, then how can you give it to me again if I already have possession of it. God can't give you something you already have.

Based on what you said when you wrote about telling a couple people you were Christian and they laughed, well your faith at that point was being tested, what you did next was totally your choice but you chose to fold your cards instead of going to search for the correct answers. The same fuel that keeps your fire burning about a non existent God, that turning point in your life should have been used to drive you to hit it harder, so next time a question comes up you might be able to respond. Hopefully no one questions your existence here on Earth because if you fold easily again and can't find the answer I wouldn't want you to think that you have no choice but to sleep forever :-)

Like I mentioned to you before we can be here for days (and I don't mind) but there are questions about your beliefs as well as mine that cannot be answered, period. I believe this world was created by God, you believe its a science. If we were both asked to prove it well you simply would just have to believe and have faith in science, while I would have to have faith in God. No human being was alive when Earth was physically created so in essence you do believe in a "story" that's told by scientist, that's your religion/belief/truth per say, that's still a form of belief or faith in something that you did not see or that anyone seen for that matter.

You can say, "its silly to think that God simply created man" and ask "prove it Julio". I can turn around and ask you "prove to me that man evolved from Ape", you can't. I been alive 28 years on this Earth and I haven't seen any Fox 11 breaking news that a zoo has an Ape that finally turned into a Man. If Man truly evolved from an Ape then why the heck are all these Apes dying without going through their "normal" process of becoming a human being, rather silly don't you think? I'm sure if I spend enough time or time period on something that had no meaning to me or my family's life, like "scientifical explanations on creation" I can come up with tons of questions as you have in questioning the existence of God but since I spend most of my time in actions that will help us grow in our quality of life I only have limited questions for now that came up as I typed.

[you stated]".....I find it improbable (but not impossible) that God exists......"

Its been about 3-4 years since I left (edit: workplace removed), and you still have the same beliefs of a non existent God. When will you stop investing your time in trying to convince people that God doesn't exist and start looking for this god of yours that might exist?

Your Mexican Ape forever,
Julio

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 2

2008-12-24T00:03:00.000-08:00

The 2nd installment of an Atheist and Christian debate is shown below. I forgot to mention earlier, Julio is a Christian, and I (Dan) am the Atheist. As an FYI to my readers, I will be posting these emails every few days over the glorious Christmas holiday season, so please check back every couple days for new posts.

From: Daniel
To: Julio
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 2:05:14 AM
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed

Hmm...

First, I will respond to your main writing.

Everything you say sounds good, and could in fact stand on it's own without Jesus, Christianity, and belief in things which go completely contrary to logic. There is nothing you've stated that requires the Bible or Jesus.

So I wonder, why does anyone need to believe in Jesus? We all can get along just fine without him, we can be good to others, we can help others. Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with it.

You mention different hierarchies in heaven. If we go to different levels of Heaven, then doesn't that mean there will be jealousy (and thus coveting) in Heaven? I thought Heaven does not have sin? On the other hand, if there are different levels of Heaven but nobody realizes it when they are there, then why in the world are there different levels? Doesn't that sound rather silly?

It seems that you focus a lot on success here on earth. As a Christian, our lives on earth should only be focused on God. You mention that you aren't perfect as Christian. Perhaps you would be a more perfect Christian if you focused more on church and Christ, as opposed to work and success? God doesn't give a damn about money or success. He only seeks a relationship with you. How can you have the best possible relationship with Christ if you are busy focusing on other things like financial freedom, something which is only temporary?

I honestly cannot see the correlation between being financially free and doing God's work. I see the correlation between being financially free and being able to do God's work in the future, but that is incorrect in God's eyes. You can die tomorrow without ever having done his work, and then what will you tell Him? "Sorry God, I was saving up? Yeah, I know I bought nice clothes and cars and food and jewelry and electronics...I was actually going to do your work AFTER that..." Have you forgotten, the rich man will find it easier to pass through the eye of the needle than gain entrance to Heaven?

Let me interrupt myself to state something completely clear, since my words may seem misleading: I find it improbable (but not impossible) that God exists, though I am certain that Jesus is not our Lord and Saviour. I know the Bible fairly well, but that doesn't mean I believe any of it. It is an ancient book, written by people similar to the Taliban. People were stoned to death because of God's words in the Bible. Women were stoned to death. Children had their heads smashed with rocks on God's orders, in the Bible. For all of the love that you speak of, you've not mentioned these things.

Even today, people are discriminated against because of the Bible. Gays are discriminated against, women are discriminated against. The only assumption we can make is that God wants this, because He himself stated it in his book. And God is perfect, he cannot make a mistake. If he wanted it then, then he wants it now.

Yet, if we throw away the Bible entirely, can't we still continue to love each other? Can't we also love the people that God hates and finds 'detestable' and 'abominable'? We can live the exact same way you've outlined below, and actually do it better, without the Bible. If you threw away the Bible tomorrow, you could accomplish the exact same things in your life. Of course, you would feel an immense amount of guilt and fear that God would punish you, and most of your church friends would stop talking to you, but you are still you. Contrary to popular opinion, the only person responsible for what you've accomplished is you. If there was a time when you were not a Christian and felt that you were strugglin, well, you made it didn't you? Give yourself the credit, not imaginary friends.

The Bible is an ancient book, responsible for countless horrors and atrocities throughout history. The Sermon on the Mount does not make up for this. We can find the same lovely words, the same message, in Buddhist teachings which actually came 300 years prior to Jesus. Yet, these Buddhist teachings say nothing bad about women, gays, or non-believers. Wouldn't this be a greater book than the Bible, since it doesn't contain evil deeds and acts?

Lemme answer your last question before I go to sleep (hopefully I don't sleep forever, if you know what I mean ;)

First off, come on man. You can ask me whatever, I don't take offense to anything really. Please don't take offense to anything I say though, sometimes it's direct but it's never meant to be hurtful or mean.

I went to a Christian school from preschool to 6th grade. My uncle (and then cousin) is the pastor of a pentecostal church in Long Beach, which my mom's father founded in the 1950s. He died while preaching at the pulpit in the 50s. My grandma still attends to this day. I attended up until about 15 years old, with sporadic appearances later.

I was a Christian, and accepted Jesus twice in 5th and 6th grades, because I was scared it didn't "take" the first time. Even as recently as 1997 in Korea, I went to church because it seemed like a comfortable place in a strange land.

However, I never really felt gripped by anything. Jesus never answered my prayers, the answers to my questions in church were unsatisfactory, and it all just seemed kinda weird to me.

Around 1998, I began identifying myself as an agnostic. A couple people I spoke with kinda laughed when I told them I was Christian, and they asked me why I would believe that a guy could walk on water or get mad when I say a "bad word". I thought about that kinda stuff, and I realized that I couldn't really answer them. It didn't make sense to me, and the more I thought, the more it seemed to seem phony.

Over the past 5 years or so, I began thinking about this stuff even more critically. And again, the more I looked, the more the wall of Christianity began to crumble away. It all culminated when I found a few websites that discussed atheism. It was shocking, to say the least, to find people who had the exact same questions that I had. They had the same thoughts, same ideas, same experiences in church, everything. It was nuts. I finally had what is called an epiphany while driving to work about 2 years ago. I realized that God doesn't exist, and that the reason I had so many questions that couldn't be answered was because I was still holding on to the crazy, irrational, illogical belief that God is involved in our lives. Everything, every single goofy question you could ask about Christianity could be answered. Why does God allow evil? Why do good people go to hell? Why do bad people go to Heaven? How come Jesus didn't make a commandment to free the slaves? If God made us in his image, then why does science show that we evolved along with apes? Why do men have nipples? Why do male chimpanzees have nipples?

It's simple: The Bible is just a book written by men, much like the Koran and the Torah. The God of the Bible is just like Zeus, Ra, and Allah. None of it is actually real, they're just stories used to keep people in line. It's always interesting to note that God didn't make man in his image: Man made God in his image. There are plenty of Christians out there who are not living in accordance with the Bible, yet they feel that "God is okay with that". That's because they are making God to be just like them.

FYI, if I were a Christian, I'd be a fundamentalist all the way. God wrote his book exactly how he wants it to be. If a person is not following it exactly, then they are wrong. This means that gays should not be treated equally, because God does not like them and finds them 'detestable'. Women should not speak in church, nor should they be disobedient to their husbands. Children should be severly punished for talking back. Women should never be allowed to remarry if their husband has died, and they definitely should not be allowed to divorce

We are not God, we are imperfect sinners. We should not be changing his rules and meanings in order to suit our modern, sin-filled society. If God wanted another book, he would write one ;)

Word. By the way, in case you didn't know, I'm officially ordained as a minister.

Pastor D

PS: If I die tonight, remember that I am burning in Hell every minute of every day that you are alive. For what exactly?...I don't know.

An Atheist and Christian Debate: Part 1

2008-12-20T12:03:00.000-08:00

As promised, here is the first installment of an email discussion I had with my friend. I've organized it so that it reads from top-down. I'll continue to post each successive email in the coming days, as long as Jesus doesn't return in the meantime.

A bit of background: I forwarded a survey I'd received from Sam Harris. The survey asked for both atheist and Christian respondents, as it had to do with a scientific study on faith. My friend missed the original email, but replied a few weeks later. A few exchanges later, and we've found ourselves at this point...

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:19:22 -0700
From: Julio
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
To: Daniel

You know what just hit me right now after reading your intro to your "Diary of an Atheist"......when we worked together you damn near smacked me one time that I told you wou were an Atheist....remember? You said "I am not an Atheist"............did we change teams?

;-)......man your a fun guy to tease with.

From: Daniel
To: Julio
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:51:18 AM
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed

I probably did, that's what clinging to Jesus will do to a person. It's scary to let go sometimes.

/

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:34:10 -0700
From: Julio
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
To: Daniel

I hope you don't mean me, right?

/

From: Daniel
To: Julio
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:26:21 PM
Subject: RE: Research Volunteers Needed

No not you, Christians in general. The same goes for Muslims. Neither adherent can easily let go of their faith, because the penalty is so severe. Both religions profess to be built on love, but in reality they are built on fear. That's why people cling to it. If all we cared about was loving other people, then why not be a Buddhist? They don't have to believe in God, yet still preach love for one another.

The answer, of course, is that Christianity and Islam are built on fear. You HAVE to believe in their God, otherwise you will go to hell forever. Even the most loving, caring, wonderful person on the planet will go to hell if they don't believe. Quite ironic for a religion based on love.

And of course if you have any questions, lemme know. I'll answer any and every question you could possibly have, as long as you're open to hearing the answers. Just be forewarned, my answers will be long and thorough...kinda like my sex fool!

-Dan

Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:37:36 -0700
From: Julio
Subject: Re: Research Volunteers Needed
To: Daniel

Wooow, where do I start...I am the same way I got some lengthy responses at times but just like you I need you to have an open mind as well.....I'm not claiming or saying I know everything, just like when we were Techs, there's some Techs that know little and there's Techs that know more (you) and Techs that know even more (Me)..

Before I start with my manifesto, there is always going to be believers and non-believers, I don't know why its just that way and I live with it. There is a lot of questions that even the most knowledgeable & wise pastor/priests (call 'em what you wanna call 'em) just don't have and that's were your belief/faith HAS to come in.

From what I'm reading on this email and on your website is that you talk about "religion", religion teaches you some weird things, people do weird things when all they know is religion. Religion is something that's traditional, I don't study religion, what I study and follow are "Truths". You see one of the many things religion teaches you is that its okay to have lack in your life, to be poor (the more broke you are the holier you become), to just care that you have a little peace here and a little peace their. I know grown men that don't want or have more because they feel they're going to violate some kind of principal, when in fact the word of God teaches about abundance in every aspect of our life, to have a balanced life. That's why you see superstars overdosing or committing suicide because of a void that was never filled, there whole purpose for living was for material success and once they achieve and can literally buy all they want, whats next for them? Stealing, suicide, selling drugs (just for the thrill). Money isn't everything but it definitely helps, money will only accelerate the TRUE person you are; if you have little money and your a party animal, money will accelerate that person you are, but, if you have money and you mean nothing but good then money will accelerate that goodness that you have in your heart. Money isn't the root of all evil, its the LOVE for money that's the root of all evil.

People connect love with a certain emotion but Love is a way of life and at times triggers many things and emotion is one of them. Love is a LIFESTYLE that prompts a lot of other things like obedience, faithfulness, trust, responsibility, respect, honesty, etc. Its not that people fear, because one thing love does not bring is fear, without getting into too much detail, you can't have both. You see when you mention people like Jeffrey Dahmer its hard for you or me to use him as an example because even though he proclaimed that he was a born again Christian we don't now if that was truly in his heart, say it was and more importantly let's say he also repented (because you can't accept Jesus and continue with your horrific lifestyle), then your right he is in heaven, but let's say he was just testing the system and he failed then he's burning in hell my young giraffe. Even if he is in "heaven", it says in the bible that there are positions in heaven and not everyone is in the same position, there are "great" & "greater" in heaven.
Also with works/actions comes reward, someone who "attends" church service for a combined time of "10 years" and gives their little tithes and offerings and attends "religiously" every Sunday is not going to be successful here on Earth. There are principals established here that the laborers (it doesn't just mean people who just work 9-5) they will prosper according to their works. Example: if you work a 9-5 job at 7-Eleven your going to make 9-5 7-Eleven money, but if you work X amount of hours in multi-million dollar transactions/business (real estate, stocks, developments) then financially your going to make according to your risk, this is just a principal period. So someone who faithfully tithes and doesn't miss one time is not going to become a millionaire or financially free, you need to do the activities/works that will cause that to happen.

Just to touch on the picture of the Earth 4 billion miles away, its just a different frame of mind on how you look at it. A non-believer will look at it and probably state exactly what you put on your website, someone say like me will say "that picture is amazing and knowing how big God is we are that important to Him that he uniquely created us". God isn't the size of Earth, to me God is a lot greater & bigger than that picture.

With all this in mind a lot of people are so quick to judge and say "oh look at Julio" and watch your every move under a magnifying glass and as soon as you slip, boom they come at you aggressive. I'm not claiming that I'm perfect, I am seriously, seriously far from that, there's a lot of things that I have to work on but the important thing is that everyday I know in my heart I'm fighting and striving to become better balanced. There's even some things that you can't do in front of other people, friends or even family because the maturity level and understanding is just not there and again they'll be quick to judge.

Aside from your response to my email I do have a specific question, not to get too personal but one time you told me that you were in it deep with the bible and studying at a younger age or you went to a private school (something along those line), what was the exact turning point for you and why? (Just curious)

This is interesting and good, it gets the juices flowing.........

Your Nigga,
Julio G

What will I do? How will I respond? Will I break under the weight of so many words? Will my so-called 'atheist religion' fail me? Tune in next week to find out!

A Christian and an Atheist Debate

2008-12-15T11:48:00.000-08:00

Okay, so I'm not so sure if it's an actual Atheist - Christian debate. But my Christian friend and I engaged not too long ago in a discussion via email concerning the existence of God, whether God is good or not, and what it means to be a Good Christian. Over the next few weeks, I'll post these "debate" emails for all to see and comment on.

I'm censoring only the personal details from these emails, and some completely off-topic details. My friend has given his concurrence that I can post these debate emails for public scrutiny.

I will post the first email exchange later this week.

Is Jesus coming back?

2008-10-01T11:51:00.000-07:00

Do you believe in the Revelation? Do you believe that Jesus will be coming back to our lonely little planet? Do you believe that He's coming back in your lifetime?

If so, then I have a proposition for you.

If you truly believe that Jesus will return in your lifetime, then include me in your last will and testament. Agree, in writing, to leave me all of your assets. Exclude everyone else from your will, naming only myself (or a charity of my choosing).

There will be no risk, of course, because Jesus will be coming back before you die, thus preventing your last will and testament from ever being executed. There's nothing to lose!

Perhaps you feel the likelihood that Jesus will return is more like 75%? Then leave me 75% of your assets. 10% chance? 10% assets. I'm flexible, I can work with you. I'll even agree to tithe 10% of my inheritance to the church of your choice!

If your faith is really that strong, and you really believe that Jesus will come back in your lifetime, then what do you have to lose? As a testament to my unwavering conviction that Jesus will never return, I'll agree to give you all of my assets if He does return. Hell, I'll even sign over my immortal condemned soul to you, so that you may eternally laugh at me for being so stupid. You have nothing to lose, while I have everything to lose...right?

Wouldn't you just love to prove me wrong? Make it happen. Put your money where your mouth is, and make your faith a legal document today :)

Do you know a pastor who preaches that Jesus is coming back in your lifetime? Pass this challenge on to him today!

A Pale Blue Dot

2008-06-22T11:47:00.000-07:00

Have you ever seen the Earth from 4 billion miles away? Thanks to Carl Sagan's suggestion to NASA, you can:

In 1990, the Voyager 1 spacecraft took a photo of the Earth from 4 billion miles away. You'll notice the pale blue dot in the upper-center of the image.

The following is excerpted from a commencement address delivered by Carl Sagan on May 11, 1996.

"We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.

"The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light.

"Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
The Wiki Page for Pale Blue Dot

Paraphrashing the character Nelly from the Sagan book Contact, "The Christian God is far too small for the Universe that I know".

As a Christian and after seeing this image, how can you continue to believe that we are all created especially by God? Or perhaps my question is more appropriately phrased, "Why do you continue to believe that we are all created especially by God"?

I've linked to a few more items below which lend perspective to our existence on this relatively inconsequential planet we call Earth.

Who goes to Hell?

2008-03-06T21:36:00.000-08:00

Who goes to Hell?

Did you know that good, moral people are burning in Hell this very minute? You see, JesusGod, who loves each and every one of us very much, must show His love for us by also punishing us when we are bad. And we are bad. Even as babies, we are very, very bad.

But JesusGod doesn't punish us for everything. In fact, He doesn't punish us for ANYTHING, as long as we ask Him to forgive us. But, there is one thing that JesusGod cannot forgive us for: He cannot forgive us for the crime of not loving Him.

No matter what we do on this earth, no matter how moral we live our lives, JesusGod in all His divine power and glory will allow us into the fiery pits of Hell. We deserve it, every last one of us, because we're evil at birth. Our only chance at redemption is by loving Christ with all our hearts...is that too much to ask?

I thought I'd list a few famous evil-doers who have jilted Christ, and who are currently suffering eternal punishment for their dastardly deeds:

Mohandas Gandhi

John Lennon

Mark Twain

Albert Einstein

Thomas Edison

...and every single Jew who died during the Holocaust!

Please understand: These people, according to the Bible, are burning right now, this very second. Screaming for mercy, pleading with Jesus. But Jesus cannot help them: they simply chose poorly, and He's giving them their just desserts. Fair enough?

If Einstein had spent more time in prayer with Christ, instead of devoting his life to all those hocus-pocus science spells, perhaps he'd be in a more comfortable place now. But he isn't. If you are to believe in Jesus, and believe in Christianity's promises, than you must also believe that this is true. Am I wrong?

In comparison, here are some of the good Christian brethren that we should be excited to meet upon our entrance to Heaven:

Jeffrey Dahmer

Ted Bundy

...Timothy McVeigh, Adolf Hitler, and the list goes on and on!!

This fine cast of characters has, by all accounts and honest assumptions, succeeded in finding a place with the Lord in Heaven! As mentioned earlier, Christ will not punish us for our sins here on earth, as long as we ask Him to forgive us. Isn't that great!!? Jesus doesn't care if you've murdered, raped, molested, robbed or burgled. All He cares about is that you love Him the same way He loves you.

ISN'T JESUSGOD TRULY AMAZING??!! DOESN'T HEAVEN SOUND EXCITING?

All it takes is to love Jesus. It's so simple!

Christian Brainwashing...

2007-12-09T17:04:00.000-08:00

I've been doing some reading from a book entitled, "What the Buddha Taught", by Walpola Rahula. As mentioned previously, my wife is Thai, and a Buddhist.

While reading, my mind began to wander a bit (which is ironic, given the teachings of the Buddha regarding mental accuracy and focus). I started to realize a very sad fact of my Christian upbringing...

I will never be able to remove the evil tentacles of Christianity from my brain. It's got me, for the rest of my life. While I can completely and honestly know that the ideas of salvation, condemnation and imaginary friends are silly and childish, I will always take a tiny bit of doubt with me, everywhere I go.

If something terrible were to happen in my life, something catastrophic, the question would arise of whether I am being punished by BibleGod for not believing in Him. When I am on my deathbed, I will be forced to ask myself, "Do I really know that Hell doesn't exist"? The amount of relevance I'll assign this might be miniscule, but nevertheless it will be there, like an old hockey injury that never quite heals.

Now, allow me to contrast this for you, so that you understand why I find this incredibly sad.

My wife, who is Buddhist, does not believe in salvation, condemnation, or God. The discussion is not even valid to her. When she laughs at these Christian ideas, it is genuine, innocent laughter at something so strange. While I am busy combating Christianity, she is telling me, "Why don't you just let people believe what they want, even if it's stupid"? She will never have any doubts about her destiny, because she's never been brainwashed with these quirky Christian concepts. I, on the other hand, am always combating Christianity because I was brainwashed, and these concepts can never entirely leave me. I take it personal.

I wish that my mind could be completely liberated from Christianity. I wish I could dig out the rotten parts and discard them like a bad piece of fruit. The parts that tell me that I am evil for leaving the "flock". The parts that tell me I will burn for eternity because I don't believe in invisible men, regardless of whether I am a good person or not. The parts that tell me that bad things happen to me, or may happen to me, because of my apostasy.

Non-Christians can never understand what it's like, and Christians obviously think I'm "misguided" to begin with. That fact of the matter is that these diseased portions of my mind can never be repaired. I never asked for Jesus or God, or Heaven or Hell. It was forced on me by a Christian society, and a Christian family. It soon will be forced on elementary school children when they learn about Creationism in our public schools. And what Christians don't tell you is that once you get Jesus on the brain, He never goes away.

What an asshole.

Christian Chain Emails

2007-11-02T22:10:00.000-07:00

So my buddy at work knows I'm an atheist, and that I'm fairly outspoken about Christianity and all it's bigoted beliefs. We work in separate locations, and apparently one of his coworkers likes to send out Christian chain mails via the company email system. My buddy knows that this kind of stuff really gets me going, so everytime he gets one, he forwards it to me (with addresses removed). He won't tell me who this little nutjob is, but I have my suspicions.

Here's one that he sent me earlier this week:

I LOVE THIS MAN

No one falls in love by choice, it is by CHANCE.
No one stays in love by chance, it is by WORK.
And no one falls out of love by chance, it is by CHOICE

scroll down

If you love this man please forward to 10 people.

He did something for you, now do something for him.
Spread his word, and you'll be rewarded.
How will you be rewarded?
Matthew 10:32 'Whoever acknowledges Me before men, I will acknowledge him before My Father in heaven. But whoever disowns Me before men, I will disown him before My Father in heaven
God is going to shift things around for you tonight & let things work in your favor. If you believe, send this to ten people. Do not ignore him. You must have unwavering faith

I can't tell you how much this kind of shit annoys me. I don't know what irritates me more: The arrogance of the sender who think it's acceptable to send out unsolicited religious emails, the faulty analogy being used, or the direct fucking order not to question your faith.

The faulty analogy dies out right at the beginning. If we add Jesus to the analogy as our dim-witted Christian intends, it looks like this:

"Nobody falls into love with Jesus by choice, it is by chance."

In Christianity, you must choose Jesus. If you do not consciously choose Jesus, you will perish with all the other cool people in Hell. Thus, this analogy is fucked.

As we proceed down the email, we see a picture of Jesus (who's body is baby-bottom smooth, which I find hard to believe). We also encounter font color and size changes, which raise the irritation level even more. Christian craziness is at it's peak here. We have a bold statement of love for Jesus, followed by the guilt-trip inducing "He did something for you, now you do something for Him". Next we have a promise of something intangible for our efforts, a little bit of scripture to really stoke the fires, and finally we end with some Christian "Feel Great" smooth talking, letting you know that God is gonna "get things working right for you again".

Do people really have that many problems in their lives? If someone told me that "God could get things working well for me again", I would laugh and ask them what it is exactly that I need help with. Perhaps the only people who need help are Christians?

I can imagine the type of person who created this email:

-She is a 43 year old mother of four, two of which are named "John" and "Jacob"
-She's approx 160 lbs, wears red cashmere sweaters during the holidays, and prefers maxi-pads over tampons because they're less sinful
-She hates it when people speak 'mexican' in public
-She was anally penetrated once by accident during sex, and believed it was punishment from God for using such a sinful position for procreation
-She sits on her fat ass all day while her husband works in a fairly high-paying job, and she thinks financial difficulty is when there isn't enough money to remodel the house
-She believes that God has watched out for her throughout her lifetime, completely discounting the fact that she was born in a country where the indigent get welfare and state prisoners eat more each day then an Ethiopian eats in an entire lifetime...okay, maybe not an entire lifetime, but you get the idea.

Honestly, I would much rather have daily spam emails telling me that Bill Gates is giving me cash, or that a girl in Africa needs money for polio crutches...at least the people making that shit up aren't telling me how to live my life. Unfortunately, until people begin taking Christians to task on their beliefs and challenging them, we all will be forced to live by their rules.

Christianity: What a waste of a perfectly good life!!

2007-11-01T00:09:00.000-07:00

I brought this idea up in the forums of the excellent website, WhyDoesGodHateAmputees,
and I thought I'd share it here as well.

Christians are wasting their precious time on this planet. In subscribing to the absurd, irrational belief that they will live for eternity after they die, they waste the time they already possess on earth.

Don't believe me? Let's take a look at some numbers...

Christians are supposed to reserve the Sabbath for the Lord. Here in the United States, this reservation takes the form of Sunday School, Worship Service, and a very large booth at Sizzler followed by a 10% tip.

What does this mean? This means that "true" Christians are spending one day a week devoted to their Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. No big deal, right?

Let's go further. Let's make the following simple assumptions. Let's assume that Suzie Sweetcheeks will have a lifespan of 80 years. Let's further assume that young Suzie begins a regular schedule of church attendance at the age of 10, just in time to avoid the fires of hell were she to perish prematurely. Are these acceptable assumptions?

Okay, so let's now draw a conclusion from this setup.

80 years - 10 years = 70 years of church attendance
1 day per week x 52 weeks per year / 365 days per year = 1/7 or 14.25%

70 years of church attendance x 14.25% = 10 years of church attendance!

Ahem. Ten years of church. Not ten years at one day a week. TEN YEARS, 7 DAYS A WEEK, 365 DAYS A YEAR.

Our country's wars have not lasted that long. Most prison terms do not last that long. This is roughly equivalent to the amount of time a child spends in the K-12th grades. However, they are learning wonderful things about science and language and history and so on. That same time spent over a lifetime in church does nothing. It only breeds bigotry and self-hate.

Perhaps you are one of "those" who thinks that you don't have to go to church? Well, there are some "truer" Christians who disagree with you, just look:

Most of the people, who say such things like," I don't have to go to church." or " I can worship God at home ", have been told by some religious leader that they are " saved ". The truth is, they are lost, and on their way to hell, and the false teacher that told them that they were saved, is lost, and on his or her way to hell also! A link to this nonsense

When you become a Christian, you are called into a relationship with God (1 Corinthians 1:9). But I John 1:3 makes it clear that we enter a fellowship that goes two ways: with God and with other Christians....
A single verse should actually be sufficient answer for this question: Hebrews 10:25 warns its readers against “forsaking the assembly of yourselves together, as the manner of some is.”
Another link to this nonsense

There are those who counter me by stating that Sunday is not spent completely in Church, and so my calculation is flawed. However, I feel this all averages out once you add in the Church Picnics, Church [fat]Camp, Wednesday Night services, Prayer Warrior sessions, and all that other shit that I didn't count.

So let's make one more conclusion based on this...

Atheists and the non-religious can, by virtue of having more time available in their lifetime, do more for the good of humanity than Christians.

If I, as an Atheist, decided to devote the rest of my life to feeding the starving children in Africa, then it would be impossible for a "true" Christian to match my humanitarianism. Simply put, I as an Atheist have my Sundays available for anything I desire. The "true" Christian does not have this luxury...they better have their snouts stuffed into a hymnal, or else.

Even if the Christian had spent only one day in church during their entire lifetime, I would still be able to spend one more day than them, helping people.

Perhaps it's easier to think of in this way:

Take one Atheist whose entire life is devoted to charitable works.
Clone that Atheist and make him a Christian.

Given the fact that a "true" Christian should be spending time in Church, which of these people can actually makes the bigger positive impact on humanity?

Maybe the Church has a very active missionary contingent which the Christian supports indirectly through tithing. Okay, then maybe the Atheist has started a non-profit with the same manpower as the missionaries, with the difference being that no time is spent teaching about Jesus....We can create examples like this all day, but the facts will not change.

Sadly, the Atheist who individually gives more to humanity than the Christian...that Atheist will burn in Hell. That Atheist is evil, corrupt, and a tool of Satan. And he deserves to suffer eternal separation from God for his actions...Does this seem right to you?

Ten years of life spent in church. For what?

Genesis Concert

2007-10-15T23:42:00.000-07:00

Last Saturday, my wife and I saw Genesis in concert at the Hollywood Bowl. I've never really considered myself a fan, but my wife loves them, so I bought tickets for her birthday.

They sounded great in concert, and we both had a lot of fun. It was my first time at the Bowl, and it was much larger than I had imagined.

They had this one song called "In The Cage", and during the entire song, there was a 50' tall graphic of a human figure on the screen behind the band. The figure was running, towards the camera, away from the camera, and at angles to the camera, and there was a red grid in the background representing 'the cage'. At one point as the music crescendos, this giant figure shatters as it runs into the wall of the "cage". The shattered figure ends up being propelled outside of the cage, representing the person finally escaping to the outside.

There is a point to this.

I was seriously tripping out on this figure. I couldn't take my eyes off the fucking thing. Added to this was the fact that the crowd had already begun lighting up joints. The smell was everywhere.

Now, I haven't done any type of drugs since 1997. I personally have no need for them, and additionally my job screens its employees for drug use every 5 years or so.

The italicized part of that sentence is critical, and really is what I'm writing about.

I fully realized my Atheism last year, throwing away my God security-blanket after about 6 years of Agnosticism. Since then, I've noticed a distinct change in the way that I view life. In fact, I'm noticing that my outlook seems to change for the better every day. The one key theme in my changing outlook is that I have an urge to live my life. A by-product of this urge is the fact that I seriously dislike my job. I don't enjoy limits on my freedom, and part of my job requires that my freedom to live life be infringed upon. However, it's paid the bills for seven years and so for now, it must be.

But is it right that I should limit my life because of my job? At the Genesis concert, had I wanted to hit a joint, would it have been wrong for me to do so? I mean, I'm not smoking crack. I'm not shooting heroin, or dropping LSD. Smoking a joint at a Genesis concert is not going to affect my performance at work, it's not going to compromise my integrity, it's not going to negatively impact my life. One could even make the case that it would positively impact my life, if you consider the fact that I wouldn't be bitching about it on this blog.

I understand my employer screening people, and it is definitely within their rights to do so. That doesn't change my perspective on my own life, however. It doesn't change my desire to live my life as fully as possible, knowing that my existence is not forever. It doesn't change the fact that my job, which I dislike immensely, is dictating how I live. In the grand scheme of things, is the money gained from working more valuable than the experiences never enjoyed?

Phil Collins stated that last Saturday was the last show, of their last tour, since they're all getting old. My opportunity to see that running image will never happen again during my lifetime. It's interesting that my memory of the runner will be forever married to my thoughts of being like him, trapped inside a system of living that won't allow me to live.

I love my life, and I'm just now learning how to live it. It will certainly be an interesting ride.

What a wonderful day to be an Atheist!

2007-10-07T10:32:00.000-07:00

My wife and I had a lot of fun at the EFWC MMA event last night. Unfortunately, Jesse lost, but it's a sport, and one person has to lose.

It's Sunday, and neither my wife or I have to work. It's looking to be a nice day, so perhaps we'll go down to the beach and walk the pier. Or maybe we'll just grab some good cds and drive around. My wife is great, she doesn't need to go anywhere in particular, she just wants to be with me wherever we end up.

My wife is a Thai Buddhist. She doesn't believe in God, or Jesus, or Heaven, or Hell. She believes that when we die, we die. Nobody knows, and she isn't about to fill in the blanks. I mean, why not go with what you can actually observe and test?

My wife has one of the kindest hearts of anyone I've met. Everyone who meets her, from family to friends, feels this. Part of it is cultural, and part of it is just her. It is such a breath of fresh air from the typical hate and fear that is preached by the Christian majority in this country, and which is burned into our own culture by default.

For instance, take homosexuality. As a man, to think of two men donkey-balling each other is repulsive to me. Shit, I can't believe that women can actually be turned-on by men. To paraphrase Michael from The Office:

"The penis is the most magnificent sight a woman could ever see. But taken in the wrong context, it's like a monster movie."

But hey, if that's what homosexuals want to do, then who am I to tell them they can't? Why should they be discriminated against in our country? This situation is a perfect example of the hate preached by Christianity, and soaked up in our culture.

Quick question: Name three countries who, as a whole, regard homosexuality as immoral.

Was Thailand one of those countries? How about Sweden? The Netherlands? Do you know why? Because none of these countries is wholly Christian or Islamic. The people in these countries don't hate others for being different. Meanwhile, homosexuality is punishable by death in Islamic countries, and is perpetually one of the main topics in public debate in the United States. Politicians are pimping out the Christians in our country, knowing that a topic as irrelevant as gay marriage will win votes.

In our country, which God has blessed, why are we discriminating against homosexuals? Why are we discriminating against anybody? If God can heal acne and sciatica, then why can't He eliminate discrimination in this country that He hath blessed? Is it because no Christians are praying for it? You know what, maybe that's right! I mean, why would Christians pray for an end to gay bashing? BibleGod Himself is a bigot, so I'd have to think that he's a gay basher in His own right. An interesting idea...let me slow down on the coffee intake.

I've informed my wife that we may both be heading to Hell, since, as the popular Christian bumper sticker goes: If you're living like there is no God, you better be right. Her response was: "That's okay, I've never been there, so it should be fun to visit."

This simple response should infuriate Christians. I mean, how could a person be so nonchalant about the very real perils of Hell? It may even arouse desires to witness my wife burning in Hell, as many Christians say: "I'll be laughing at you while I'm in Heaven."
"Every knee shall bow" stokes the fires of Christian bigotry, as it reinforces their belief that those who reject Jesus will be made to kneel, be made to wimper, be made to beg.

Wow...have you ever thought that this same insanity is what causes Islamic warriors to rejoice as they behead an infidel? Isn't the same core belief responsible? Why so hateful?

Shit man, I've got a long neck too. The kind of neck Christians and Muslims alike would salivate at, waiting to get their first shot at cutting it.

So anyways...The wife and I will be out enjoying each other's company today. Maybe have a nice lunch somewhere. Maybe we'll throw a frisbee around? Or maybe we'll find a nice place to take some pictures. There's a wonderfully cool breeze blowing through my wonderful house right now, as my wonderful wife laughs at me as I type. What a wonderful day to be an Atheist!

The UFC back in town!

2007-10-06T15:54:00.000-07:00

Last week my wife and I went to UFC 76 at the Honda Center in Anaheim, CA. What a blast! I'm a big fan of MMA and of course, the UFC is really the only show in town. This is my third time at an event, and it's always great.

Remember when your pastor told you that Atheists are evil, troubled, miserable people? And you just drank it up like everything else your pastor feeds to you? Well, I have to disagree. Do my wife and I appear to be miserable people to you?

So anyways, the event was fun. Tyson Griffin was exciting as always, Forrest Griffin did what most people thought was impossible, as did Keith "I have the worst nickname in MMA" Jardine. Nothing really surprises me anymore in MMA.

My dad joined us as well, as he's also a pretty big fan of the sport. The tickets were $100 a piece, so it's definitely not cheap. But hey, you only live once, right?

I'm heading out to another MMA event tonight. My friend Peter has a friend that is fighting out at the Anaheim Convention Center, so we're all going to watch him fight.

Please pray for us to reach our destination safely.

In Christ,
Dan

Masturbation Guilt hits home.

2007-10-06T11:53:00.000-07:00

I accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour multiple times. In church, understand, they push this on you regularly. Couple that with my Christian elementary school, and I was accepting JC all over the place. To the best of my knowledge, Jesus doesn't care if you feel His presence like other Christians. If you truly accept Him, in a heartfelt manner, then you are saved. So, lest you charge I was not a true Christian, think again. Being Christian doesn't require you to be social, or to speak in tongues, or prophesy. I didn't feel compelled to do these things, but I was a Christian, and that was that.

Here are a few memories I have of walking and talking with my Lord:

In either 5th or 6th grade, and over and above all actions in church and elsewhere, I distinctly remember accepting Jesus into my heart on two separate occasions while getting ready for bed. I repeated the action, because I was scared that it didn't "take" the first time.

In 7th grade, I remember praying to Jesus and asking Him to deliver me a girlfriend. In fact, her name was Laura Wells. I actually made a deal with Jesus: Let me go out with Laura, and I'll stop choking my chicken. I'm not sure how long I intended the beating hiatus to be in effect, but I imagine that I thought I'd never do it again. Needless to say, Jesus didn't deliver, and neither did I.

From ~5th - 8th grades, I was a masturbation phenom. Unfortunately, I was also a Christian, and I'm sure you all know what that means: Masturbation Guilt. Oh, how I would pray and pray for strength from Jesus to resist my urges. Ten minutes later, I'm praying to Jesus again asking forgiveness for being sinful. And on and on it went. When my prayers for a girlfriend (see above) went unanswered, I jerked it with a ferocity previously unknown to me, merely to spite Jesus. Predictably though, like a hungover man at an AA meeting, I was back in contact with JC, asking forgiveness.
And so it went. Asking the Lord for strength, courage, and forgiveness, typically in that order. Regardless, I knew Jesus was in my Heart, and I was going to Heaven.