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<title>NT Wright on the question of gay clergy...</title>
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<description>NT Wright is very much the CS Lewis of today- I'm glad people living concurrently with him recognize much of his wisdom. I have a feeling in future years, his stature and influence will only continue to grow... At any rate, he's weighing in on the biggest issue facing (and in fact splitting) the Anglican communion worldwide- the American/Episcopalian church's insistence on ordaining "active" gays/lesbians to ministry. Standard Disclaimer (in case anyone cares): I'm in favor of gay/lesbian people having the same rights as anyone else. I'd love to see government get out of the "marriage" business altogether and issue everyone civil unions, leaving marriage to religious institutions. In terms of the Church, the issue isn't whether gay/lesbian people can serve God (they absolutely can)- the issue is whether same sex sexual activity is ever consistent with following Jesus- I don't believe it is. NT wright agrees... Of course, matters didn’t begin with the consecration of Gene Robinson. The floodgates opened several years before, particularly in 1996 when a church court acquitted a bishop who had ordained active homosexuals. Many in TEC have long embraced a theology in which chastity, as universally understood by the wider Christian tradition, has been...</description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span>NT Wright is very much the CS Lewis of today- I&#39;m glad people living concurrently with him recognize much of his wisdom. I have a feeling in future years, his stature and influence will only continue to grow...<br /><div>At any rate, he&#39;s weighing in on the biggest issue facing (and in fact splitting) the Anglican communion worldwide- the American/Episcopalian church&#39;s insistence on ordaining &quot;active&quot; gays/lesbians to ministry.&#0160;</div><br /><br /><div><strong><em>Standard Disclaimer</em></strong> (in case anyone cares): I&#39;m in favor of gay/lesbian people having the same rights as anyone else. I&#39;d love to see government get out of the &quot;marriage&quot; business altogether and issue everyone civil unions, leaving marriage to religious institutions.&#0160;</div><div>In terms of the Church, the issue isn&#39;t whether gay/lesbian people can serve God (they absolutely can)- the issue is whether same sex sexual activity is ever consistent with following Jesus- I don&#39;t believe it is.</div><br /><div>NT wright agrees...</div><br /><br /></span></p><blockquote class="webkit-indent-blockquote"><p>Of course, matters didn’t begin with the consecration of Gene Robinson. The floodgates opened several years before, particularly in 1996 when a church court acquitted a bishop who had ordained active homosexuals. Many in TEC have long embraced a theology in which chastity, as universally understood by the wider Christian tradition, has been optional.</p><p>That wider tradition always was counter-cultural as well as counter-intuitive. Our supposedly selfish genes crave a variety of sexual possibilities. But Jewish, Christian and Muslim teachers have always insisted that lifelong man-plus-woman marriage is the proper context for sexual intercourse. This is not (as is frequently suggested) an arbitrary rule, dualistic in overtone and killjoy in intention. It is a deep structural reflection of the belief in a creator God who has entered into covenant both with his creation and with his people (who carry forward his purposes for that creation).</p><p>Paganism ancient and modern has always found this ethic, and this belief, ridiculous and incredible. But the biblical witness is scarcely confined, as the shrill leader in yesterday’s Times suggests, to a few verses in St Paul. Jesus’s own stern denunciation of sexual immorality would certainly have carried, to his hearers, a clear implied rejection of all sexual behaviour outside heterosexual monogamy. This isn’t a matter of “private response to Scripture” but of the uniform teaching of the whole Bible, of Jesus himself, and of the entire Christian tradition.</p><p>The appeal to justice as a way of cutting the ethical knot in favour of including active homosexuals in Christian ministry simply begs the question. Nobody has a right to be ordained: it is always a gift of sheer and unmerited grace. The appeal also seriously misrepresents the notion of justice itself, not just in the Christian tradition of Augustine, Aquinas and others, but in the wider philosophical discussion from Aristotle to John Rawls. Justice never means “treating everybody the same way”, but “treating people appropriately”, which involves making distinctions between different people and situations. Justice has never meant “the right to give active expression to any and every sexual desire”.</p><p>Such a novel usage would also raise the further question of identity. It is a very recent innovation to consider sexual preferences as a marker of “identity” parallel to, say, being male or female, English or African, rich or poor. Within the “gay community” much postmodern reflection has turned away from “identity” as a modernist fiction. We simply “construct” ourselves from day to day.</p><p>We must insist, too, on the distinction between inclination and desire on the one hand and activity on the other — a distinction regularly obscured by references to “homosexual clergy” and so on. We all have all kinds of deep-rooted inclinations and desires. The question is, what shall we do with them? One of the great Prayer Book collects asks God that we may “love the thing which thou commandest, and desire that which thou dost promise”. That is always tough, for all of us. Much easier to ask God to command what we already love, and promise what we already desire. But much less like the challenge of the Gospel.&#0160;</p></blockquote><p><span><div><br /><div><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6710640.ece">Read the rest here</a></div></div></span></p><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/bobhyatt/~4/9VOwXBIMc50" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>


<category>ecclesiology</category>

<dc:creator>bobhyatt</dc:creator>
<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:08:18 -0700</pubDate>

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<item>
<title>Ha! Lookit that...</title>
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<description>Never been a "Special Guest" before! :) I'll be debating Larry Osborne on Video Venues. Should be fun (said the Christian to the Lions) :)</description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never been a &quot;Special Guest&quot; before! :)</p><br /><div><a href="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef0115710f5160970c-pi" style="float: left;"><img alt="Picture 2" class="at-xid-6a00d8341cd56753ef0115710f5160970c " src="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef0115710f5160970c-320wi" style="margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px;" /></a> &#0160;I&#39;ll be debating Larry Osborne on Video Venues.&#0160;</div><div>Should be fun (<em>said the Christian to the Lions</em>) :)</div><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/bobhyatt/~4/4nc_e_Z8XnQ" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>



<dc:creator>bobhyatt</dc:creator>
<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:23:01 -0700</pubDate>

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<title>For you Portlanders, this Friday: The Banyan Tree Family Tour</title>
<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobhyatt/~3/-urWhAUQjZw/for-you-portlanders-this-friday-the-banyan-tree-family-tour.html</link>
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<description>Evergreen is opening its/Burlingame's doors for a special Friday night show, hosting the Banyan Tree Family Tour, featuring FIVE singer/songwriters from Santa Cruz, California in one night! Josh Fox, Dave Matsumura, Jonathan Stowers, Jesse West, and Travis Oberg will share their own material, then collaborate! It's going to be a great time, and the best part is, they are donating the proceeds to support Andrew and Julia Rodriguez who are raising support to devote their time and energy to Evergreen. Date: Friday, July 17, 2009 Time: 7:00pm - 10:00pm Location: Burlingame Church Street: 125 SW Miles St City/Town: Portland, OR Cost: $5 http://www.myspace.com/joshfoxmusicbaby http://www.myspace.com/jwestmusic http://www.myspace.com/kokuaonline http://www.myspace.com/jonathanstowers http://www.myspace.com/saltwatermerchants</description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011571ff75c1970b-pi" style="float: left;"><img alt="Banyon-tree-family-tour" class="at-xid-6a00d8341cd56753ef011571ff75c1970b " src="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011571ff75c1970b-320wi" style="margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px;" /></a><strong><span style="font-size: 15px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "> Evergreen is opening its/Burlingame&#39;s doors for a special Friday night show, hosting the Banyan Tree Family Tour, featuring FIVE singer/songwriters from Santa Cruz, California in one night!&#0160;</span></strong></p><div>Josh Fox, Dave Matsumura, Jonathan Stowers, Jesse West, and Travis Oberg will share their own material, then collaborate! It&#39;s going to be a great time, and the best part is, they are donating the proceeds to support Andrew and Julia Rodriguez who are raising support to devote their time and energy to Evergreen.</div><br /><div><div><strong><span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">Date:</span><span style="font-size: 17px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">&#0160;Friday, July 17, 2009</span></strong></div><div><span style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: bold; "><span style="line-height: 20px; font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">Time:</span> 7:00pm - 10:00pm</span><br /></div><div><span style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: bold; "><span style="line-height: 20px; font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">Location:</span>&#0160;Burlingame Church</span><br /></div><div><span style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: bold; "><span style="line-height: 20px; font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">Street:</span>&#0160;125 SW Miles St</span><br /></div><div><strong><span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">City/Town:</span><span style="font-size: 17px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">&#0160;Portland, OR</span></strong></div><div><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 20px;"><strong><br /></strong></span></font></div><div><span style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: bold; ">Cost: $5</span><br /></div><div><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 20px;"><strong><br /></strong></span></font></div><div><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 17px; line-height: 20px;"><strong><div><span style="font-size: 10px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><span style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.myspace.com/joshfoxmusicbaby</span></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><span style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.myspace.com/jwestmusic</span></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><span style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.myspace.com/kokuaonline</span></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><span style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.myspace.com/jonathanstowers</span></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><span style="font-weight: normal;">http://www.myspace.com/saltwatermerchants</span></span></div></strong></span></font></div><br /></div><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/bobhyatt/~4/-urWhAUQjZw" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>


<category>evergreen</category>

<dc:creator>bobhyatt</dc:creator>
<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:26:01 -0700</pubDate>

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<item>
<title>*HOW* I need my family...</title>
<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobhyatt/~3/gDf7XhehHKI/how-i-need-my-family.html</link>
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<description>That I need my family is beyond question. But I'm continually learning new ways of how I need them... This week the whole family is gone. And while it initially overwhelmed me with feeling lonely without and "apart" from them, I've settled down into very much enjoying the time. The house is clean- the moment the kids drive out the driveway with Amy I feel an overwhelming urge to pick crap up- mostly because I know- I KNOW- that if I pick x, y or z up, x, y or z will stay picked up- at least until the kids get home again. Maybe you're the kind of guy who goes all feral when forced bachelorhood arrives. I'm not- In fact, I'm never as neat, as fastidious as when the family is gone. The bed has been made every morning (because when I get up now, I'm not leaving a still-sleeping wife and/or 1 or 2 kids behind, so it's easy just to pull the covers up and straighten everything). There are no dishes in the sink. The living room is straight and my office has never been tidier. In fact, I've had time to do a lot of things...</description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="font-style: italic;"><br /></span></p><p><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">That</span></span><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "> I need my family is beyond question.&#0160;</span></p><div>But I&#39;m continually learning new ways of <span style="font-style: italic;">how</span> I need them...</div><br /><div>This week the whole family is gone. And while it initially overwhelmed me with feeling lonely without and &quot;apart&quot; from them, I&#39;ve settled down into very much enjoying the time.&#0160;</div><br /><div>The house is <span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-style: italic;">clean</span></span>- the moment the kids drive out the driveway with Amy I feel an overwhelming urge to pick crap up- mostly because I know- <span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-style: italic;">I KNOW</span></span>- that if I pick x, y or z up, x, y or z will <span style="font-style: italic;">stay</span>&#0160;picked up- at least until the kids get home again.&#0160;</div><br /><div>Maybe you&#39;re the kind of guy who goes all feral when forced bachelorhood arrives. I&#39;m not- In fact, I&#39;m never as neat, as fastidious as when the family is gone. The bed has been made every morning (because when I get up now, I&#39;m not leaving a still-sleeping wife and/or 1 or 2 kids behind, so it&#39;s easy just to pull the covers up and straighten everything). There are no dishes in the sink. The living room is straight and my office has never been tidier.&#0160;</div><div>In fact, I&#39;ve had time to do a lot of things I haven&#39;t seemed to be able to get to since we moved in- closet organized, clothes gone through and culled (for Goodwill), the kids rooms are picked up... the place is<span style="font-style: italic;"> looking</span> good.&#0160;</div><br /><div>And I&#39;m <span style="font-style: italic;">feeling</span> good- getting good rest, all alone in that big bed with no one to kick me awake in the middle of the night, and no one coming into our room crying about this or that at all hours. So nice- my body doesn&#39;t seem to want to wake up at 2:30 am anymore... or even 5am. The more human hour of 6:30 has been the new norm. I wake, enjoy a leisurely stroll downstairs, walk out on the back deck for a deep breath, coffee cup in hand- not worried about getting <span style="font-style: italic;">anything</span> done before <span style="font-style: italic;">anyone</span> wakes up, because... well, it&#39;s just me.&#0160;</div><br /><div>Feels like the stress has melted away, the blood pressure raised by tantrums and whining and battles of will has gone down- i<span style="font-style: italic;">t&#39;s like I&#39;m a different person when the family is gone</span>.&#0160;</div><br /><div>I was thinking about all of that this morning as I sat in my chair, Bible open in front of me, coffee mug at the ready- I <span style="font-style: italic;">am</span>&#0160;a different person. One who feels much more in control of his surroundings (expressed by the obsessive need to clean) and, in some ways, himself. Less stressed, less anxious... less in need of God.&#0160;</div><br /><div>Uh oh.&#0160;</div><br /><div>As I sat, I reflected that while I have Gotten Things Done, I haven&#39;t exactly been a &quot;prayer warrior&quot; the past few days. WIth the stress of kids and the responsibilities of Husband and father have also gone the desperation and desire to connect to my Source that has been my life-line these past few years.&#0160;</div><br /><div>Through this family, the Gospel gets preached to me in ways I need to hear it.&#0160;</div><div>In my wife and family I find not only great fulfillment and joy, but also a constant reminder of how much I need a Savior- of my selfishness and self-centeredness. I have in them a continual (and good) challenge to my idolatrous desire to have things <span style="font-style: italic;">my own way</span>. The stress I feel at the tantrums and such isn&#39;t because of <span style="font-style: italic;">them</span>- it&#39;s because of <span style="font-style: italic;">me</span>- my reaction to them and their affront to my love for my own plans, convenience, comfort- whatever- that their understandably childish behavior is getting in the way of.&#0160;</div><br /><div>I&#39;m grateful that God has given me a relationship with my wife in which I am constantly called on the carpet for selfish behaviors and attitudes- without her, the idea of &quot;laying down my life&quot; would most likely have remained academic to me. God has used this relationship to enrich my character, my understanding of Jesus and life in His way, and through it- challenge though it is, helped me to understand just how much I need Him.&#0160;</div><br /><div>Same thing with my kids- I generally approach parenting with a pretty simple prayer: &quot;Help!&quot;</div><br /><div>That&#39;s a prayer I haven&#39;t prayed for a couple of days now... and that&#39;s a problem.</div><br /><div>Thank You God, for my family. I need them in <span style="font-style: italic;">so</span> many ways.&#0160;</div><br /><div><a href="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011570fa4eb3970c-pi" style="float: left;"><img alt="IMG_2267" class="at-xid-6a00d8341cd56753ef011570fa4eb3970c " src="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011570fa4eb3970c-320wi" style="margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px;" /></a> Come home soon guys! I love and miss you...</div><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/bobhyatt/~4/gDf7XhehHKI" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>


<category>the Gospel</category>

<dc:creator>bobhyatt</dc:creator>
<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:16:50 -0700</pubDate>

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<item>
<title>David Allen on... think smarter by capturing your ideas.</title>
<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobhyatt/~3/X9-1G67ln-Y/david-allen-on-think-smarter-by-capturing-your-ideas.html</link>
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<description>All right- if you've been hanging around here for awhile, you know we're technically a part of the cult of David Allen, he of Getting Things Done fame. He says... Last week I wrote about how you can achieve more successful outcomes with a sense of relaxed focus and control. The first step I outlined was capturing anything and everything that has your attention. Why is that so important? Because your mind is a lousy office. When you have a thought about something you want or should do, it is usually so simple and so obvious when you're thinking of it, you're sure you'll never forget it or that you'll remember it in the right moment. Then two minutes later, with the next thing on your mind you're sure you'll never forget, you've forgotten that you've forgotten the first thing! If your mind had a mind, it would only remind you of something when you could do something about it. Here's a simple example--do you have any flashlights with dead batteries? When does your mind remind you that you need batteries? At the dead ones! If your mind had a mind, it wouldn't bother you at the dead ones, but...</description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">	</span></p><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: #333333; "><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "><a href="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/09/18/da_hasaposse.jpg" style="text-decoration: underline; color: blue; cursor: pointer; "><img alt="Da_hasaposse" border="0" height="178" src="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/pastorhacks/images/2007/09/18/da_hasaposse.jpg" style="border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px; margin-left: 0px; float: left; cursor: pointer !important; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; " title="Da_hasaposse" width="200" /></a>All right- if you&#39;ve been hanging around here for awhile, you know we&#39;re technically a part of the cult of David Allen, he of&#0160;<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0142000280/organicchur0e-20" style="text-decoration: underline; color: blue; cursor: pointer; ">Getting Things Done</a>&#0160;fame.</p><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; ">He says...</p><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "></p><blockquote><blockquote><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "><em>Last week I wrote about how you can achieve more successful outcomes with a sense of relaxed focus and control. The first step I outlined was capturing anything and everything that has your attention. Why is that so important?</em></p><div class="blog_toolbox inline" id="entry_tools" style="display: block; "><ul style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "><li class="last"><em>Because your mind is a lousy office. When you have a thought about something you want or should do, it is usually so simple and so obvious when you&#39;re thinking of it, you&#39;re sure you&#39;ll never forget it or that you&#39;ll remember it in the right moment. Then two minutes later, with the next thing on your mind you&#39;re sure you&#39;ll never forget, you&#39;ve forgotten that you&#39;ve forgotten the first thing!</em></li>
</ul>
</div><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "><em>If your mind had a mind, it would only remind you of something when you could do something about it. Here&#39;s a simple example--do you have any flashlights with dead batteries? When does your mind remind you that you need batteries? At the dead ones! If your mind had a mind, it wouldn&#39;t bother you at the dead ones, but would clearly let you know only when you were in a store that had live ones!</em></p><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "><em>Just because we think of something, that doesn&#39;t mean that we are being productive or constructive about or with it, or that it will be fulfilled. We have to realize that the thought itself is just a beginning, and if we care at all that it brings value or improvement, we probably need to capture it, clarify what it means to us, and organize the actions and information embedded or associated with it.</em></p><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "><em>Most people I meet are still letting their mind run the show.</em></p></blockquote></blockquote><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; ">Read the rest&#0160;<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-allen/think-smarter-by-capturin_b_65539.html" style="text-decoration: underline; color: blue; cursor: pointer; ">here</a></p></span></div><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/bobhyatt/~4/X9-1G67ln-Y" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>


<category>GTD</category>

<dc:creator>bobhyatt</dc:creator>
<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:44:00 -0700</pubDate>

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<item>
<title>From the Archives: the Co-Dependent Pastor</title>
<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobhyatt/~3/g7GghQXIoUw/from-the-archives-the-codependent-pastor.html</link>
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<description>Two basic types of pastoral disfunction- the narcissist and the co-dependent. We all lean one way or the other on that continuum- some so little it's not really an issue, others, well... The need to succeed or the need to please and avoid conflict. The narcissist, with his or her need to succeed really doesn't care what others think. When these people leave ministry, it's because they are driven out. Their self-centeredness and inability to empathize/think of others often looks for all the world like a person with vision and leadership charisma- someone who knows what needs to be done and does it. Unfortunately, when the truth becomes known, it's usually after people begin to see the long, long trail of metaphorical bodies that get left in the wake of these people- years of stepping on and over people may get you up the ladder, but sooner or later the toll becomes obvious and either the narcissist leaves or everyone else begins to. On the other side is the co-dependent. Helping professions are ripe soil for people who need others to help them establish a sense of identity... and the pastorate is no exception. It's a job where I can...</description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="font-family: &#39;trebuchet ms&#39;; line-height: normal; color: #333333; "><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "><span style="color: #333333; font-family: &#39;trebuchet ms&#39;; line-height: normal; ">Two basic types of pastoral disfunction- the narcissist and the co-dependent. We all lean one way or the other on that continuum- some so little it&#39;s not really an issue, others, well...</span></p><div><span style="color: #333333; font-family: &#39;trebuchet ms&#39;; line-height: normal; "><br /></span><div><span style="font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><div><a href="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef00e553fe2bb28834-pi" style="text-decoration: underline; color: #7daa6f; float: left; "><img alt="Codependent_large" class="at-xid-6a00d8341cd56753ef00e553fe2bb28834 " src="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef00e553fe2bb28834-320wi" style="border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px; margin-left: 0px; " /></a>The&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">need to succeed</span>&#0160;or the&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">need to please and avoid conflict</span>.&#0160;</div><br /><div>The narcissist, with his or her need to succeed really doesn&#39;t care what others think. When these people leave ministry, it&#39;s because they are driven out. Their self-centeredness and inability to empathize/think of others often looks for all the world like a person with&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">vision</span>&#0160;and leadership charisma- someone who knows what needs to be done and does it. Unfortunately, when the truth becomes known, it&#39;s usually after people begin to see the long, long trail of metaphorical bodies that get left in the wake of these people- years of stepping on and over people may get you up the ladder, but sooner or later the toll becomes obvious and either the narcissist leaves or everyone else begins to.&#0160;<br /></div><br /><div>On the other side is the co-dependent. Helping professions are ripe soil for people who need others to help them establish a sense of identity... and the pastorate is no exception. It&#39;s a job where I can be fully and completely co-dependent&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">and</span>&#0160;get rewarded for it. In fact, the more sold out the pastor is to you and your needs, the more he or she is (often) praised. The narcissist doesn&#39;t mind conflict- in fact, they kind of enjoy it. Another chance to focus attention on them and their leadership skills, but the co-dependent is motivated by the need for others&#39; approval and will avoid even necessary conflict whenever possible.&#0160;</div><br /><div>The narcissist needs&#0160;empathy and what they do must begin to be motivated more and more by the needs of others, not just their own. In other words, they need&#0160;to care more about what other people think. &#0160;</div><br /><div>So, is the corollary true? Does that mean the co-dependent needs to care&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">less</span>&#0160;about what other people think?</div><a id="more" style="text-decoration: underline; color: #7daa6f; "></a><div class="entry-more" style="clear: both; "></div><br /><div>No. The co-dependent... heck,&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; "><span style="font-weight: bold; ">I</span></span>&#0160;need not to care&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">less</span>&#0160;what other people think but&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">know more</span>what I think and&#0160;<span style="font-weight: bold; ">who I am</span>, apart from what others think about me and who I think they think I am.&#0160;</div><br /><div>In other words, the answer for those who tend to be driven by what others may or may not think of us, for those who tend to be hurt when others express disapproval or dislike is to be<span style="font-style: italic; ">self-differentiated</span>.&#0160;</div><br /><blockquote class="webkit-indent-blockquote"><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; ">&quot;<span style="font-weight: bold; ">Differentiation is the ability to remain connected in relationship to significant people while choosing not to allow our behavior and our reactions to be determined by them... The differentiated person lives an &#39;undivided life&#39; by remaining true to his or her principles even though it may involve rejection or conflict.&quot;&#0160;</span></p></blockquote><blockquote class="webkit-indent-blockquote"><p style="margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; "><span style="font-weight: bold; ">-</span><a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/078796266X?tag=organicchur0e-20&amp;camp=0&amp;creative=0&amp;linkCode=as1&amp;creativeASIN=078796266X&amp;adid=02ETR8FFXZPZ1N4A3KZ1&amp;" style="text-decoration: underline; color: blue; cursor: pointer; "><span style="font-weight: bold; ">The Leader&#39;s Journey</span></a></p></blockquote><br /><div>I&#39;ve been thinking through these things the last couple of days... every once in awhile you run into one of those speed bumps in ministry that make you question where you are at and what you are doing (well, not if you are the narcissist type...) and occasionally, for some of us, even who we are.&#0160;</div><br /><div>And that right there is the clue... when your identity is based on what others think of you (which, let&#39;s be honest, is a huge part of the pastoral gig), you are already in deep trouble.&#0160;</div><br /><div>Here&#39;s the truth, and it applies to everyone, no matter what you do. A healthy person doesn&#39;t disregard the thoughts and feelings of others, but rather, uses that input appropriately, to help make&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">decisions</span>... not&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">identity</span>.&#0160;</div><br /><div>I told you that narcissists get driven out of ministry by others. The other type drive themselves out. Co-dependent types hit a point mid-forties or fifties and drop out or burn out. The burden of being all things to all people, of maintaining an identity built on the approval of others and an agenda that gets ruled not by an inner compass but by a finger in the wind often leaves a burned-out husk... one who would have no idea who he or she was apart from their role as a helper of others. The narcissist leaves a trail of bodies in his wake- the co-dependent does the same thing, but it&#39;s usually a spouse and children who suffer. This type often sacrifices family for &quot;ministry&quot; and in the end hates and regrets ever listening to the call of Jesus.&#0160;</div><br /><div>The only way forward is to base our identity on the one constant- the person of Jesus and what HE thinks of us. Learning to hear&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">His</span>&#0160;voice, have&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">His</span>&#0160;heart... trading co-dependency with others for dependency on Him. I know that sounds easier said than done... It is. I think it&#39;s the work of decades, not days or weeks.&#0160;</div><br /><div>To care what people think, but not be<span style="font-style: italic; ">&#0160;consumed</span>&#0160;by it. It&#39;s the key to sleeping well at night, to empathic and yet values (not opinion)-driven leadership... and I know for me, and maybe for you, it&#39;s the difference between&#0160;<span style="font-style: italic; ">making</span>&#0160;it and being completely shipwrecked by a vocation, a calling, that, not lived out in a healthy manner, has killed better men or women than you or I.&#0160;</div></span></div></div></span></p><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/bobhyatt/~4/g7GghQXIoUw" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>


<category>pastoral</category>

<dc:creator>bobhyatt</dc:creator>
<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:27:00 -0700</pubDate>

<feedburner:origLink>http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/bobblog/2009/07/from-the-archives-the-codependent-pastor.html</feedburner:origLink></item>
<item>
<title>Hell!</title>
<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobhyatt/~3/1pEMujjsDZA/hell.html</link>
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<description>I am just blown away by Keller's sermon on hell. Never heard better. Normally, I would just preach it myself, but this is so good, so well stated and so... right, that I wanted to share it in its original form. Those who "discard" hell are discarding a misunderstanding. And, if Keller (and Miroslav Volf) is right, are more responsible for the cycle of violence and vengeance in this world than they would care to admit. Wonder how that could be? Listen.</description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011570d6fadb970c-pi" style="float: left;"><img alt="Hell-11g.jpg" class="at-xid-6a00d8341cd56753ef011570d6fadb970c " src="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011570d6fadb970c-320wi" style="margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px;" /></a> I am just blown away by Keller&#39;s sermon on hell. <span style="font-weight: bold;">Never heard better.</span> Normally, I would just preach it myself, but this is so good, so well stated and so... <span style="font-style: italic;">right</span>, that I wanted to share it in its original form.&#0160;</p><br /><div>Those who &quot;discard&quot; hell are discarding a misunderstanding.&#0160;</div><br /><div>And, if Keller (and Miroslav Volf) is right, are more responsible for the cycle of violence and vengeance in this world than they would care to admit.&#0160;</div><br /><div>Wonder how that could be?&#0160;</div><br /><div><a href="http://ping.fm/iw9kQ">Listen</a>.&#0160;</div><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/bobhyatt/~4/1pEMujjsDZA" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>


<category>theology</category>

<dc:creator>bobhyatt</dc:creator>
<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:10:10 -0700</pubDate>

<feedburner:origLink>http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/bobblog/2009/07/hell.html</feedburner:origLink></item>
<item>
<title>Sometimes, I despair...</title>
<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobhyatt/~3/pZmyYR-4V0s/sometimes-i-despair.html</link>
<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/bobblog/2009/07/sometimes-i-despair.html</guid>
<description>Especially when looking at the searches that lead to my blog. "naughty pastors wives"... Really? Really??? Sheesh. Get a life, man.</description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Especially when looking at the searches that lead to my blog.&#0160;</p><br /><div>&quot;naughty pastors wives&quot;... Really? Really???</div><div>Sheesh. Get a life, man.&#0160;</div><br /><div><a href="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011571aea96f970b-pi" style="float: left;"><img alt="Picture 1" class="at-xid-6a00d8341cd56753ef011571aea96f970b " src="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011571aea96f970b-320wi" style="margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px;" /></a> <br /></div><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/bobhyatt/~4/pZmyYR-4V0s" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>


<category>blog jive</category>

<dc:creator>bobhyatt</dc:creator>
<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:21:13 -0700</pubDate>

<feedburner:origLink>http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/bobblog/2009/07/sometimes-i-despair.html</feedburner:origLink></item>
<item>
<title>It's Him we need- not you.</title>
<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobhyatt/~3/sZ-p2X6YpJU/its-him-we-need-not-you.html</link>
<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/bobblog/2009/07/its-him-we-need-not-you.html</guid>
<description>Ahh, sunny summer mornings. This particular sunny summer morning found me on our front porch before the family woke, reading, praying, thinking... My mind went back to my early days in ministry and my frustration over not being handed the keys earlier. I had so many good ideas! I knew what was wrong with this community, with these people. Especially those older ones who seemed to stand in the way so much. Didn't they realize that if everyone just did what I thought we should do, the whole thing would be better? Yes- the arrogance of youth. We live in a world where grey hair, rather than being coveted as a sign of wisdom and experience is actually dreaded and dyed away in an attempt to emulate youth. Crazy. The problem is, no one has bought into this upside down value system more wholeheartedly than the young. Believe me, as someone who felt he had to plant a church, largely in response to not being handed the keys, I get the impatience. I also get the importance of handing off leadership to gifted, qualified YOUNG people as early as possible. But here's the thing- as someone who regularly invites people...</description>
<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><a href="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011571aea309970b-pi" style="float: left;"><img alt="800px-Keys_2" class="at-xid-6a00d8341cd56753ef011571aea309970b " src="http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cd56753ef011571aea309970b-320wi" style="margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px;" /></a> Ahh, sunny summer mornings.&#0160;</span></p><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">This particular sunny summer morning found me on our front porch before the family woke, reading, praying, thinking...</span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">My mind went back to my early days in ministry and my frustration over not being handed the keys earlier. I had so many good ideas! I </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">knew</span><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "> what was wrong with this community, with these people. Especially those older ones who seemed to stand in the way so much.</span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">Didn&#39;t they realize that if everyone just did what I thought we should do, the whole thing would be </span><span style="font-weight: bold; "><span style="font-style: italic; color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">better</span></span><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">?</span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">Yes- the arrogance of youth.&#0160;</span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">We live in a world where grey hair, rather than being coveted as a sign of wisdom and experience is actually dreaded and dyed away in an attempt to emulate youth. </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">Crazy</span><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">.&#0160;</span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">The problem is, no one has bought into this upside down value system more wholeheartedly than the young. Believe me, as someone who felt he </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">had</span><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">&#0160;to plant a church, largely in response to not being handed the keys, I get the impatience. I also get the importance of handing off leadership to gifted, qualified YOUNG people as early as possible.</span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">But here&#39;s the thing- as someone who regularly invites people in their 20s into the role of elder in our community, I can say truthfully that while age is often a consideration, the real issue is </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">maturity</span><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">, and maturity shown in particular ways.&#0160;</span></div><div><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">So- &quot;When can I LEAD?&quot;&#0160;</span><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">The answer is simple.&#0160;</span></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><br /></span></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; color: #333333; "><span style="line-height: normal; color: #111111; "><span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">When your love for us outweighs your impatience with us and your anger that we aren&#39;t <span style="font-style: italic;">already</span> like Jesus.&#0160;</span></span></span></span></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; color: #333333; "><span style="line-height: normal; color: #111111; "><span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">And when you know it&#39;s </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-size: 18px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">Him</span><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "> we need, not </span></span></span><span style="font-style: italic; color: #111111; "><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">you</span></span><span style="line-height: normal; color: #111111; "><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 16px; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; ">.</span></span></span><span style="color: #111111; font-family: &#39;Lucida Grande&#39;; "><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br /></span></span></div><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/bobhyatt/~4/sZ-p2X6YpJU" height="1" width="1"/>]]></content:encoded>


<category>leadership</category>

<dc:creator>bobhyatt</dc:creator>
<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:13:03 -0700</pubDate>

<feedburner:origLink>http://bobhyatt.typepad.com/bobblog/2009/07/its-him-we-need-not-you.html</feedburner:origLink></item>

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