Coming Out Poly

Partner kept from loved one in life-or-death struggle

ashe — Tue, 19 May 2009 19:54:53 +0000

This story has been going around some of the feminist and LGBTQ blogs today. The New York Times article talks about two different families that were kept apart while one partner was in the hospital. Both were legally prepared for the eventuality and were still kept apart.

Ms. Langbehn says that a hospital social worker informed her that she was in an “antigay city and state” and that she would need a health care proxy to get information. (The worker denies having made the statement, Mr. Alonso said.) As the social worker turned to leave, Ms. Langbehn stopped him. “I said: ‘Wait a minute. I have those health care proxies,’ ” she said. She called a friend to fax the papers.

The medical chart shows that the documents arrived around 4:15 p.m., but nobody immediately spoke to Ms. Langbehn about Ms. Pond’s condition. During her eight-hour stay in the trauma unit waiting room, Ms. Langbehn says, she had two brief encounters with doctors. Around 5:20 a doctor sought her consent for a “brain monitor” but offered no update about the patient’s condition. Around 6:20, two doctors told her there was no hope for a recovery.

Despite repeated requests to see her partner, Ms. Langbehn says she was given just one five-minute visit, when a priest administered last rites. She says she continued to plead with a hospital worker that the children be allowed to see their mother, even showing the children’s birth certificates.

“I said to the receptionist, ‘Look, they’re her kids,’ ” Ms. Langbehn said. (Mr. Alonso, the hospital spokesman, says that except in special circumstances, children under 14 are not allowed to visit in the trauma unit.)

Poly relationships, legal rights, and contract law

ashe — Mon, 04 May 2009 14:52:13 +0000

In our June meeting we will be discussing how to protect and provide for your poly family with contract law. We will have a guest speaker talking to us about things like wills and estates; also, we will be going over the chapters regarding the law in Tristan Taormino's book Opening Up and discussing Relationship LLC.

In preparation for all of this, we would like to collect as many questions as possible regarding the subject to send to our guest speaker so he can be prepared when he comes.

Leave your questions in the comments and we will forward them on to him.

Thanks!

What is the best time to get together for a Coming Out Poly social gathering?

ashe — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:39:57 +0000

May Meeting 5-20-09

ashe — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:57:29 +0000

We will be meeting at the Tool Shed at 7pm.

We will be talking about introducing the idea of polyamory to a partner and negotiating boundaries. We will also start talking about reading Tristan Taormino's book "Opening Up". Copies are available at the Tool Shed, but you do not need to have read the book to attend (although the book is an amazing one and highly recommended for anyone that is in or thinking about being in a non-monogamous relationship!).

QueerCamp was a success!

ashe — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:45:34 +0000

As many of you know, QueerCamp happened this past weekend at Bucketworks in Milwaukee. The turnout was a little smaller than expected, but we had amazing topics and conversation ranging from spirituality to transexuality to marketing to queers.

My presentation on Negotiating Non-Monogamy was the first session to kick off the weekend and I got a lot of interesting questions about things like scheduling, jealousy, and coming out. We talked about all the various forms of non-monogamy (not just polyamory) and why you might choose them. The same afternoon we also had a round table discussion on polyamory, so non-monogamy was a well-covered topic of discussion.

I'd like to thank the various members of the Coming Out Poly group that came out and engaged in discussion and learned with us. Thanks for helping us educate people as to what polyamory is, dispel negative myths, and build community!

Tracy and I talked about the possibility of starting an LGBTQ discussion group that would meet monthly. Would you be interested in attending something like that? What would you want to get out of it?

QueerCamp!

killian — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:26:42 +0000

Just so everyone is aware, QueerCamp is this weekend at Bucketworks. You can visit www.queercamp.org to get more information on the event. It's entirely free! Also, here's Bucketworks' site: www.bucketworks.org.

Ashley and I (Boone) will be doing presentations during QueerCamp. Ashley will be doing a Poly 101 session, and I will most likely hold a discussion-based session about poly - to answer questions, discuss poly topics, and other such things. We really hope to see a bunch of folks there and be a part of the community.

The Mechanics of Sexism

elle — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:44:09 +0000

Here's a link to my newest article, hope you guys like it, and if you can (*please pretty please with a cherry on top!*) pass the link on to others, the more hits I get the better ^_^

http://www.altdash.com/ShowArticle.aspx?ID=157

April Meeting 4-15-09

killian — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:59:28 +0000

We'll be meeting at the Tool Shed tomorrow at 7 like usual. I've not really got a topic, so I'll let folks bring things to do the table. We might discuss some of the books out there on Poly if you'd like to suggest some reading. Perhaps we'll look into reading some passages for next time and discuss. Hope to see folks there.

Event Tonight

killian — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:34:35 +0000

For those interested in something to do tonight, there is a talk called "I Heart Female Orgasm", tonight at 7 pm in the UWM Union Wisconsin Room.

Also, remember our next meeting of the poly group is April 15th. Hope to see everyone there again.

March Meeting

killian — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:57:46 +0000

This month's meeting will be on March 18th (the third Wednesday of the month).

We'll be talking about open communication in relationships and how to bring up polyamory, or the topic of it, to new or potential partners. Bring some thoughts; bring some friends.

Poly on ABC

elle — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:33:35 +0000

I want to forward this post with a disclaimer: I do NOT, have never, nor ever will watch ABC's "The Bachelor." Just needed to make things clear. My roommates, on the other hand, do watch this "show"- if you could call it that. I call it a plague, a soap opera, a drug used by single white women and housewives across the nation. I do not watch this show, but I have deduced how it works. Single dude, and in this case apparently a single dad, meets some number of single women (I'm thinking like 20), they all live in this crazy big mansion, and each week he has to choose the ones he wants to keep macking on and send the rest packing. He does this (I know from the commercials) by giving the girls he wants to stay roses (oh how cute, cue the "awws" from old ladies who still give a shit about flowers). We all pretty much know how it goes.

"Okay, Elle," you're asking, "what does this have to do with anything, much less polyamory?"

Well skeptical reader, does no one else but me detect a bit of a poly vibe here? Or maybe an anti-poly vibe? These women all live together, some of them even claim to be friends, yet they're all vying for the same guy's attention and more than a few have already declared their undying love for the man. He says -right into the camera with those big puppy dog eyes of his and that perfect lighting (of course)- that he doesn't know which girl he'll choose because he's gotten so close to all of them. And this is for marriage, mind you. I'm pretty sure he may have even dropped the big old "L." word a couple times himself (that's "love" not "lesbian" for those of you that may be Showtime fans :P). So... if you love 2 or more women... and they both love you back... and they're already cool with living together in a big mansion until happily ever after... then what's the problem?

He could potentially A) remain a hot bachelor, B) get 2 hot chicks that he loves and that love him back, C) get whatever prize money that invariably goes hand in hand with this sham marriage/contest and D) not hurt anyone's feelings at all (except those like 18 other girls :P)-- and well, if they're into it, that is :}.

I keep seeing the commercials and just wishing that people ever considered polyamory as an option. For most people it doesn't even cross their minds, and especially not in the beginning of a relationship. It's usually years down the road when they decide to pop the big question: "How would you like to see other people... together?" or something along those lines. But it doesn't ever start that way, does it? I mean when someone tells a new date, let's say a guy (because women would only be labeled sluts anyway), "Well, I really like you, but I really like her too..." it's usually coupled with an ultimatum: "It's either her or me," or unfortunate disgust/hurt, "Fine, if I'm not enough for you, go be with someone else, you whore."

BUT, if shows like "The Bachelor" are good for anything, they do show that it's possible for a human to be in love with more than one other person at a time and for more than one person to be in love with them. They ruin it by making him choose every week who he wants to ditch for someone better, but maybe it's progress... maybe?

Personally, I can't wait for the day when a reality show would embrace the poly-outlook for a dating show, and not make it trashy and full of sluttery. I'm not talking "Flavor of Love" here, I mean something respectable. Can you have "reality tv" and "respectable" in the same sentence? Perhaps one day. A girl can dream.

"Me" Time

killian — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 03:43:56 +0000

Life is full of surprises; it's part of what life is all about. How one deals with those surprises tells much about how that person lives their life. In the life of one such as I, who is Poly, surprises come in forms unknown to monogamous relationships - or, rather, in forms that typically end monogamous relationships. Between Ashley's life situations and Lyndzi's, surprises have been in abundance for me, and some serious consideration has been made on my part for "me" time.

I believe that time spent alone is good. Why? Because time spent alone means that you're self-reliant; you're independent; you're your own person. For a very long time, I've been in one of three places nearly every waking hour of my day: there's work (which I don't have right now), Ashley's company, or Lyndzi's. So my time is spent concentrated on many things, but very little of that time is spent working on me. To me, this is not a selfish act: to spend time alone, pondering over thoughts, musings, troubles, is good in order to work through them in a healthy manner; and should you find that you cannot work through them alone, then you find someone (professional or otherwise) who can.

In the last few weeks, I've had a lot of time alone, and I've found that I've been very lonely. I know that might sound redundant, but there is a difference in my mind between being alone - physically - and being lonely - emotionally. I've been both, and I used to be ok with that. I think it's because I've grown so comfortable being able to rely on others to occupy my time, that I've become unable to rely on myself, and it bothers me. I speak a lot about time management when asked about Poly. I think that it's important that everyone in the relationship network is on the same page as far as how time is managed, respected, and viewed. One thing I guess I never really mention is the need for time alone, time to develop one's self, time to be ok with being alone without feeling lonely.

So my goal over the next few days - at least, though perhaps weeks is more likely - is to re-evaluate my own time and what it's worth. I need to figure out how to manage the time I have alone and how to best use it. I need to figure out why it is that I'm lonely when it's just me at the house. I need to discover some way to make it ok again.

February Meeting

killian — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:16:21 +0000

Hello everyone. Sorry for the delay in posting this; it's been a rather hectic month, and the lot of us have been more than a bit distracted with a variety of things. Being that as it is, I am posting this bit of an agenda for those of you who will be attending tomorrow's meeting at The Tool Shed.

We'll be talking about a few things: What is Poly?, What does it mean to be Poly?, and What are the "types" of Poly?. These will be our major topics of discussion, and we'd like to look into proposing the first book to start looking into for the group. Please do bring some ideas.

Our First Meeting

killian — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:58:24 +0000

This past Wednesday we had the first meeting of Coming Out Poly Milwaukee, which is also dubbed the Young Milwaukee Poly Group at the Tool Shed. Ashley (Nyla) and I were afraid that there would be a rather meager turn-out, expecting only those people who we had personally invited to join us for discussion. We were thoroughly excited, however, when 25 people ended up showing to the group. It was beautiful, and we want to thank everyone who came out for doing so.

To me - and I think to Ashley and Lyndzi - it was wonderful to see so many people coming out to support us. The community has gone from a nearly silent minority to a visual group, and it's great. You are all part of our network now, and we welcome you with open arms because everyone within the poly circles needs to have people to connect with, to interact with, and to find comfort in. We hope that this group will be the beginning of a much larger movement here in the city to be able to provide in a way that there has been nothing previously.

With that being said, for all of you who made it out to the group - and for those who may have had other plans (or even had second thoughts) - we welcome you.

We're Coming Out!

killian — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 02:14:20 +0000

So, we're coming out. Well, we've kind of already been "out" but not all that publicly. It's going to be a bit harder now to not be. The Shepherd Express ran another article about us, and we decided as a family to use our real names. Read the full article here.

It's a big step for all of us, I think, and we're excited. The group will be a big voice in the community, and we hope that it will be a great service, too. We want people to be welcome, and we want people to feel comfortable with us. We hope that by "outing" ourselves to people here in Milwaukee we will give other people courage to do the same thing - to their friends, family, co-workers, whoever they're comfortable coming out to. There are others like you, and we're here to help you in whatever way we can.

Strange feelings

ashe — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:29:07 +0000

We haven't posted much personal stuff on here lately, as many of you may have noticed. With the holidays and the added stress from Killian being out of work, we haven't been able to muster the energy to put our thoughts out there.

We have been getting into so many fights about the smallest things lately and it is just stressing us out even more. Most recently, Killian and I got into a fight and Elle came over to help us talk things out and look at things rationally. I can't even begin to explain how nice it is to have someone that knows us both and the situation so well that she can relate to and help us both work through things. I think that is one of my favorite things about being poly. When there is a two person issue, you're not alone with trying to fix things.

Getting advice from non-poly friends and family is difficult because they may not have seen the situation before. Where their quickest thought might be "well, you wouldn't be in that position if you didn't have such a complicated love life" or "I don't know what to tell you, I don't know what it is like to...", a metamour or significant other's is more along the lines of how to fix things.

Elle made a big impact on both of us that day, I think. She was there for me to talk to when I was upset and was there to remove Killian from the situation so he could talk about why he was upset. I texted her when she left a "love you". Not something I have ever said to her before and not something that, truthfully, I was expecting to feel. She's become family faster than I thought she would - especially considering how little time she and I have spent together as of late. It's a strangely comforting feeling, though.

Killian, Elle, and I have spent the past few days doing quite a bit together. We celebrated my birthday last night: Killian made dinner and Elle bought an ice cream cake and we watched a movie together (while knitting, of course!). It was nice to have a quiet relaxing birthday with what I know feel is my family.

I'm looking forward to growing and getting healthier as a family and how we can help other people do the same through things like our monthly Coming Out Poly group at the Tool Shed in Milwaukee, through our blog, and through other ways of outreach.

My Ears Are Ringing

killian — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:18:50 +0000

So I guess we're official. Milwaukee's liberal paper, The Shepherd Express, has mentioned us via their sex columnist on SexPress. I hope this brings about good tidings for the group, the community, and the city. I hope it shows people that we're more open than people believe; I also hope it allows others interested in poly or involved in poly to come forward and be a part of the community.

Recently, Nyla, Elle, and I met with some new, young, poly friends. Betty and Dan (not their real names) were very inquisitive, open-minded, and sweet. We've not really had much experience with the younger poly crowd, as people in our age bracket seem to be insecure about their own position in the world and in the community. Dan said something to us that I think rings true for a lot of those interested in poly or just starting out. "Is this normal? I mean, is what we're doing - what we're going through - normal?" Polyamory, in short, is not normal; or, rather, it's not the accepted norm. However, there are some situations that are normal for a poly relationship. So I replied with "Yes. You're still normal."

I think it's important for those just starting out in a poly relationship to have others to speak with who treat their relationship like it's normal. It makes it easier for people to accept, I think. If you keep it secret, then it seems like you're hiding something or that you're ashamed of it. Nyla, Elle, and I have been very open about things for the past year to most people who are regulars in our life. To them, our relationship is uncommon and unknown, but it's not strange, and they don't look at us with distaste. That, I think, is important. I also believe that having a community like the one we're building, will slowly and steadily bring about more and more knowledge and exposure to polyamory and thus allow people to be more and more accepting of it.

So thanks, Laura, for the kind exposure to us and our way of life. Thank you, more so, for allowing us the use of your space because it means a lot to have people as open-minded and kind to turn to. I think I speak for everyone in the family when I say "Welcome" to everyone who - I hope - will become part of our community.

Are you for serious, COMPLEX magazine?

elle — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:47:39 +0000

I came home today to a magazine that my roommates and I don't subscribe to. It goes to some Todd guy that used to live her 2 years ago. For some reason it keeps coming. It's called COMPLEX magazine, and whenever we get it, we'll page through it without thinking. Really almost the entire thing is advertisements, but it smells kind of good.

Anyway, today I come home to it, glance over, and what does it say on the front cover? "HOW TO CHEAT ON YOUR GIRLFRIEND (& GET AWAY WITH IT)

Excuse me? What the fuck?

You can access the full article here: http://www.complex.com/ENTERTAINMENT/FEATURES/The-Complex-Guide-to-Cheating for I do not suggest actually buying the rag of a mag. But for a brief summation, this article is a how-to guide on cheating - and getting not getting caught. It lists off, in a step-by-step manner, 1) who you should sleep with (ie. the ex, a younger girl, some random chick), 2)the risks involved, 3) how to "do the deed", 4) the aftermath, 5) Loopholes (may favorite: "It's NOT cheating if 90% of your clothes stay on"), and 6) conflict resolution (what to do if even after following this brilliant guide, your dumb ass still gets caught).

I can only hope this is satire. Reading it aloud to my roommate we agreed that it just *had* to be, but if not, all I have to say is, "Are you for serious COMPLEX? Really?"

Attachment	Size
MAG.jpg	89.24 KB

New Meeting

killian — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:10:57 +0000

Starting in 2009, we will be an official group. Nyla, Elle, and I will be moderating a group here in Milwaukee that will meet monthly. We hope to make it a very discussion-based group that can focus on a great many topics related to poly, relationships, sexuality, and the like.

We will be meeting at The Tool Shed in Milwaukee. The website is: www.toolshedtoys.com. The address for the store is on the site, as is their phone number should you need it. You can also always feel free to email me if you have more specific questions. We'll be meeting the third Wednesday of each month, beginning on January 21st.

If you're planning on attending, please let me know, so I have an idea of how many people will be there and how many chairs we'll need. Please also bring some ideas for what we can do with the group. Nyla and I already have some ideas, and we'll bring those up at the group. I look forward to seeing some old friends and meeting some new ones.

Edit: we've solidified a time for meeting at The Tool Shed. We'll be starting the meeting at 7pm. Please do show up a few minutes early, so we can start the meeting as close to 7 as possible and get out before Laura closes shop.

Yes, We're Still Alive

killian — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:05:09 +0000

Hello everyone. Yeah, it's been a while, but things have been beyond hectic, and we've all been a bit out of sorts lately. Let's hope things get a little better, and we get on track. Here are a few things.

First, for those of you who may not have seen this, here is a special comment by Keith Olbermann of "Countdown" regarding Prop 8 in California. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fw.... You should watch it.

Second, we will be starting our meetings again come January at the new location of The Tool Shed in Milwaukee. It's on the East Side (we'll post the address), and we'll give you times. It will be monthly. It will be awesome.

Lastly, I received an email from a gentleman requesting a link swap. I'm all about link swaps, so here you go. There's a link here in the post, and there will be a link on the right-hand side under Poly Resources. Hope that's what you're looking for. Cheers. "For discreet, accurate
HIV testing, please visit www.localhivtesting.com!

Hope everyone is well.

Killian

Beware of ignorant douchebags

elle — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 04:16:17 +0000

I recently posted a Craigslist ad asking for a pen pal. I was incredibly bored and had just gotten an email from one of my other pen pals stating that he would be moving to Kentucky and probably wouldn't have much time to write anymore. It was understandable, but I guess I was still kind of hurt. I love writing and emails are really one of my only outlets for that part of my life anymore. So I posted this ad and got dozens and dozens of responses. Most of whom obviously didn't read the ad itself because, FYI, I was not asking for a date, I was asking for a writing buddy. Apparently that was not evident when I said "pen pal" and not "fuck buddy" or "future husband"...

ANYWAY, there were a few guys that answered that seemed genuinely nice and non-retarded. The emails I actually respond to have dwindled down to about 3 in the past few weeks (from about 20 :S), and one stood out as a pretty nice dude, someone I was even willing to go out to coffee with, and told such to said guy. Then I told him about my relationship. When he asked me if I was seeing anyone I told him I was in an open relationship. Later I added that it was to a married man. He then went forth to put him down and tell me he had no right to get married to his wife, that I basically shouldn't be with him, and that he "hesitates to call it a relationship" because I "just happen to be fucking a guy that just happens to be married." **

Needless to say I stopped texting him right quick. Oh, and that coffee date was as good as dead the moment he told me I that I'm "obligated" to have kids with someone else (I'm guessing he meant with himself) because I'm an intelligent person and smart people need to breed more...

Where do people get off thinking they can tell other people what to do with their lives? >.< Grr, I just needed to vent. Ok, I feel a bit better now.

~Elle

**Killian and I are celebrating out one year anniversary in 2 days. I consider a one year long relationship pretty solid, don't you? PS) Yay, us! ^_^

New Site

killian — Fri, 16 May 2008 17:03:01 +0000

Tristan Taormino has put up a new message board on her new site for her new book. Lots of new things :-) Look into it.

No Truer Words

killian — Mon, 12 May 2008 13:56:07 +0000

Nyla and I have always had a solid relationship. It's one of the things most people comment about when they meet us. We interact well; we communicate well; we "fit", as it were. But, like most married couples, we have our issues. Only, we're not like most married couples, so our issues aren't really the typical issues.

One of the biggest things - for me - about Nyla and I having issues always comes down to thinking that they automatically involve Elle. They do, indirectly, but the issues are really mine and Nyla's to own. It's tough in a poly relationships, because it seems natural to assume that issues are always related to everyone in the relationship, and they're not. The easy way around it: communicate that. Also, if you're on the receiving end of that, believe it.

Mama Java has a good post about assertive communication, which I was inspired by (which I guess is good seeing as no one's posted here in like two weeks - sorry about that). Sometimes I have a problem when I communicate; I come off a bit condescending, and it's unintentional. I'm not sure what it is - maybe the teacher in me trying to bring it down to an understandable level or something - but it makes communication hard at times. My communication style seems to be a bit more aggressive than assertive. It's something I'm working on.

The point, though, is that there is good communication and bad communication. Most married couples have neither; they have no communication. I've spoken with my dad before about issues, and he has no response; he and my mom have never discussed particular issues. "It just never came up," he says. You've been married 20 years, and it never came up? Have you never heard of a hypothetical discussion? Nyla and I talk about things all the time that may never happen. I suppose it's part of our scholarly approach to nearly everything. We do talk about a lot, but there's always more to open up about. For me, I have a hard time expressing myself without getting worked up and angry - not at anyone in particular, just angry that someone's called my bluff and is trying to root out the problem. I think assertive communication is a good way to help alleviate that anger and make the environment more comfortable and accepting. If you don't have a comfortable environment to discuss your problems, then there's no discussion; it dies.

Elle and I decided to start taking walks to make it comfortable. We enjoy being outside; most of the time now, it's mildly pleasant. And we talk. No one cries; no one gets angry; we just walk together and talk quietly. We don't have to worry about people being around (she has room mates), and we don't have the option of stomping off to another room. It's relaxing, and it's nice.

Another one of my outlets is a poly friend. Many times when I'm upset, it's about something mundane and trite. I bitch about it to my poly friend, and it goes away. Mostly, I just want to rant and have someone nod and say "I agree that's dumb." Then it's over. I feel better. I don't feel guilty for holding it in; I don't feel ashamed for being annoyed about it; and I don't feel bitter about it later if it comes up again. I know the response to have, and I know how to deal with it rationally. I think everyone in a poly relationship needs poly friends. I think it should be a requirement when you get your badge.

What? You didn't get your badge? Mine is very nice, with ribbons and everything. I'm sure you'll get yours, too.

Update - 5/14/08

killian — Mon, 12 May 2008 13:38:54 +0000

We're looking to hold a discussion group here in Milwaukee on the 2nd of June. It will be at the Anodyne Coffee shop on the south side of town at 7:00pm. Please bring a few bucks for coffee and a will to discuss. We're looking to change this venue to the local A Woman's Touch store; I just haven't contacted the woman about it yet. Plus it's not free, so that would be an issue.

I have a few topics in mind to talk about at our first meeting (don't worry, no silly ice-breakers). I think it'll be good to truly start building our Milwaukee community. It needs to happen.

Email: dsteiner7@gmail.com

Directions:

From the west (using Waukesha as the starting point):
View Larger Map

From the north (using Mequon as the starting point):
View Larger Map

From the south (using Racine as the starting point):
View Larger Map

He's At It Again (More On Marriage)

killian — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:17:17 +0000

Marriage means a lot to me. I've said that before . . . twice. When religion starts to come in (and by 'religion' in this post, I mean over-zealous, close-minded, right-winged, Christian Fundies who think they're better than the depraved world that surrounds them), I get a little hot under the collar. Here's the issue at hand.

First, let me say this and get it off my chest: why is a newspaper - I'm not sure about calling it a 'respectable news source after this article' - putting on its website a column like this? I don't care if it's a guest columnist; this is a column meant for a specific audience (one that might read the paper, yes) and needs to be in a specific publication. It doesn't belong in a newspaper.

On to the topic, then. Marriage, as a religious rite, has a great deal of importance to various cultures, sects, denominations, et al, that have no bearing on my life. I think the argument that is being made here is falling on only the listening ears. For a good portion of us who are poly, the religious argument is a moot point. Nyla, Elle, and I are all very uninterested in religion or it's trappings. It doesn't affect our lives. I appreciate the desire to "educate" folks like this about our way of life, but it's almost entirely useless. They believe what they believe, and there's no swaying them.

What really bugs me, though, is the automatic assumption that children are harmed by this way of life. My father grew up in a family that was very much extended. Aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents were always around to help raise the children. Yes, his parents were Mom and Dad, but there were a lot of occasions (because my grandfather worked a lot of hours to help support them) that it was Mom and Auntie. My father was never confused by who his father was, or if Auntie was a second mom. It's all in how you raise your children. Our children (Nyla's and my) will be raised to know that I am Dad, Nyla is Mom, and Elle is Elle. Elle will be just as important in their lives because she's part of the family, but they'll always know that Nyla is mom, and she's the boss. Just because Elle is my girlfriend (which the kids will also be raised to know), doesn't mean that they'll grow to understand that we've somehow devalued the importance or the worth of marriage. If you teach your children that, then that's what they'll know. If you teach them the truth, then they won't be ignorant.

I really dislike Fundies

In other news, I'm awesome.

What Is Marriage?

killian — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:16:13 +0000

What is marriage? Throughout our lives (for most of us) it means a life-long commitment to a person of the opposite sex. It means loving and cherishing that person until one of you dies. My parents were divorced when I was little more than 2; Nyla's parents divorced when she was 8; Elle's parents when she was 12. Only my parents remarried after their divorce. My father has been in a healthy relationship since then - 18 years of marriage. My mother, on the other hand, just divorced her second husband after 18 years. I guess my dad won that competition.

So what does it really mean? To me and Nyla is a decision that we felt was right. We wanted to be with one another, and we wanted that to be for a long time. It still means that. Just now we have the opportunity to have other people in our lives for an extended period of time, too. Marriage - the institution of - is a bureaucratic entity. There's no emotional value to it; there's no benefit from it spiritually (at least for me). It's monetary and convenient. That's not to say that my level of commitment is different. That's just my thoughts on the function of an institution. Even with my current lifestyle, I'd still marry Nyla again.

She's been reading Ravencroft's "Polyamory", and it has a section in there on marriage that I thought was interesting. We've had common law marriages in this country for decades. Wisconsin doesn't recognize such a law, but plenty of other states do. So that means there is no religious necessity for marriage in those states: you can get married even without a county clerk. If that's true, then shouldn't anyone cohabiting for an extended period of time be considered married regardless of gender? Seems like it should be to me.

The Human Right Campaign is sending around a petition for Equal Marriage Rights. You should sign it. HRC Equal Marriage Rights petition

I'm A Tiger! Rawr!

killian — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:27:54 +0000

We all went to the SEXPO series at UWM last week. I've been trying to think all week about what to write about regarding it, and it just hasn't come to mind . . . until today. Sexual Empowerment. That's what the talk that Tristan Toarmino gave was about. It was fascinating and informational and rewarding.

Men are raised to be expected to know what to do when it comes to sex. We're men. It's our animal instincts, right? Not so much. I grew up learning a few things about sex: you don't talk about it, you don't fantasize about it, you only do it with one person at a time, and you certainly don't go out and try to learn about it. My education: Playboy. One's that I snuck from my dad's collection or nabbed from the local bookstore (yeah I did that as a kid). What I did learn, though, was that I liked to masturbate. Oy! That's something to admit. I think most guys do; it's a good form of release. It wasn't until I got older that I learned that it was ok to enjoy it.

I didn't have sex until I was 19. I wasn't prudish about wanting it or shy about expressing my desire for it. I just never found the right girl who'd drop trow for me. It was disappointing. The first time sucked. In fact, most of the sex with my first sucked. We didn't know what the hell we were doing; we didn't know how to communicate what we liked; we didn't even know how to explore properly. It was terrible. When we broke up, I started getting a bit more heavily into BDSM, and I actually started to learn some things. Now I think I know a pretty substantial amount about sex, sexuality, and my own likes and dislikes, and I've learned how to express them properly.

So how was the SEXPO talk enlightening? Because I learned even more. I learned that it's ok to like things that people might think are strange. It's ok to want to explore and discover that you don't like something. It's ok to say that you're not interested in trying something - for whatever reason. That makes things easier - especially for a guy. Men are meant to enjoy sex, but they're never really meant to express that enjoyment in anything more than "yeah, that was good; did you like it, baby?". It's all supposed to be very routine and monotonous; and it's always satisfactory if we get off.

It's hard living in a culture that is so outwardly expressive of sexuality but inwardly repulsed by it. Commercials abound with boobs and booties and massive packages in tight shorts. Movies throw it in our faces just to get us to come and watch them (because most movies suck now and they need something to get people to the theater). It's everywhere. But we're only supposed to look. Sex isn't mean to be pleasurable or a pass-time; it's not meant to be something we strive to attain or enjoy or pursue. It's hard living in that. It's even worse wanting it from more than one person at once - and not in the threesome way. Women are whores, and men are players or cheats. It just doesn't make sense.

In some small way, though, I feel venerated after that talk, though. Despite the outpouring of disdain by society at large, I feel as though whatever I am compelled to do in my love life, sexual life, or other aspects of my personal life, is somehow looked upon with compassionate and approving eyes by those other sexually empowered folk around the world. It's a nice feeling.

Tristan Taormino, my hero

elle — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:43:42 +0000

Yesterday I attended a workshop on sustaining an open relationships and took a lot of notes. It was an amazing experience, and I wish Killian and Nyla could have been there too. I'll try my best to surmise the most of it.

First we went over the Pros and Cons of Open Relationships:

PROS
-customize your relationship to what you really want
-get your needs met
-more sex :)
-more communication
-experimentation
-growth
-acknowledge and act on desires for others
-takes pressure off relationship
-don't have to end one relationship to start another

CONS
-jealousy (obviously)
-living arrangements
-stigmas/judgments of others/ misconceptions of what it is
-having to hide relationship
-not enough time (the most common answer in all her interviews)
-limited energy
-STDs/Safety
-more work
-misunderstandings
-competition
-no community/ lack of access to others
-few role models/ lack of visibility
-lack of security and stability

One of the things she went over was that people assume you're either monogamous or single and when you defy that expectation people think something is wrong with you, you have commitment issues, or you're just weird. Due to this, people in O.R. have to hide it or lie.

One of my favorite lines in her entire presentation was when she was describing time management skills, she said "Time is quantifiable, but love is not." It's a common misconception for people to think that a person can only have so much love, just like the only have so much time. You only have so much time, and if one tries to be equal, they have to split it 50/50. Sometimes when a partner meets someone else, their primary thinks that love is that way too, if they're being fair that have to only give them half of the love they used to give. Love isn't like that. You can give 100% of your love to more than one person.

Then we went over the many STYLES of O.R.:
-Friends with Benefits (a favorite of college students everywhere :P)- I think this one is obvious
-Partnered Non-monogamy- A couple allowed to have sex (usually in the BDSM scene) but not allowed to have love relationships
-Swinging- it's own culture, usually heterosexual couples, mostly married, suburban, go to parties to swap or find a third (almost always a woman)
-Polyamory- can form love relationships with other people (two forms: Hierarchy and Non-Hierarchy)
Solo Polyamory- not committed to having a primary partner and no desire to
Polyfidelity- Triad or quad (or more), all committed to one another, behave as one relationship unit
Mono/Poly Combo- one partner is monogamous and the other is poly

Then, finally, we went over the BIG 'EN: Jealousy. She said it's ok to be jealous. It's a learned behavior, it's not innate, even though it may feel like it's something deep inside you that you can't change. She said you can unlearn it. Sometimes people envy the connection their partner has with the other, you can think that the other person is perfect and you aren't, you may be possessive and think that your partner belongs to you, there are feelings of exclusion, and the biggest fear that you'll be abandoned and replaced.

Then, in closing, we talked about COMPERSION. It's the opposite of jealousy and what all poly folks should strive for. It's taking pleasure in the joy that your partner's relationship brings. It's an ideal, of course, but one day... Let's all hope. ^.^

Things That Make Me Proud

killian — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:04:26 +0000

Nine months ago I met a girl who was innocent, rabidly passionate, intense, and completely unaware of the things that lay within her. Elle has changed dramatically since then. She went from a girl who had never had a boyfriend, to a caring woman and wonderful companion who does so many wonderful things for both me and Nyla.

It surprised me, though - as well as Nyla - that she told us about an upcoming project she'll be working on. She's taking a class on graphic novels, and one of the final projects is to create an original work regarding something you're passionate about. Elle's topic? The social acceptance of poly. I don't know that she recognized it, but I smiled, and I was proud. It took me years to tell my father, and Elle is telling people she doesn't even know. Granted, her argument that she'll never see most of these people again is a sound one, but that doesn't negate the fact that she's comfortable enough with our situation to tell people about it. Not only that, but she's willing to write about it and display it. That makes me proud.

I feel overtly fatherly at this moment. Hehe.

Nyla, as well, has impressed me. Elle has been spending the night lately, maybe a few times a week, and we're all sharing the same bed. It's a huge step for her, and I cannot express the amount of emotional self-discovery that had to have occurred with her. She's changed a great deal, and I am happy for that, too. Slowly, every small day at a time, we're becoming a family. It will be a strong family, and it will be a healthy and productive family, and I am proud about that, too. They are both wonderful women and through all the hard times we've had both as couples and as a family, we come out stronger and closer.

I know you'll read this, and I just want to say thank you and I love you both.

In other news . . .

We're planning to host our first Milwaukee-area discussion sometime at the end of the month. It'll be a discussion session, held, most likely, at a local coffee shop. If you're in the area and would like to join us, please post a comment or email me and let me know that you'll be attending.

Email: dsteiner7@gmail.com

Life can't always be sunshine and posies (or football matches)

ashe — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:12:16 +0000

I grew up in a family where fighting, yelling, and crying were so common that I didn't know other people lived another way. My dad has a problem with being verbally abusive and my mom was either utterly disconnected from our world or throwing things. This has made me pretty terrified of confrontation - people speak to me sternly and I break down. That being said, having issues with Killian and Elle or anyone else in our relationship is the last thing I want to go through. I want us to live as a happy, emotionally healthy unit.

The past couple weeks have been up and down for Killian, Elle, and I (hence the lack of updates here). All couples go through these kinds of things, so it would be expected that polys do, too. We are all people - and different - and being that close to anyone for as often as we are can be difficult at times.

Our issues ranged from small to quite large and we had our first big blow up which gave us the opportunity to finally sit down as a family and work to fix things. There was some yelling and crying, yes, but we realized that that was only going to aggravate the situation further, so we called Elle over. We presented the problems to each other as evenly and as non-accusatorily/defensively as possible and suggested positive ways to fix them. We sat down and took turns talking about what our feelings were and why and how we felt things should be changed. We're all working on things and I think it has brought us more together than anything else we've been through together.

One of the things you don't think about when you're on the outside of the poly world is the support network that you gain. Having even just one more person in the relationship helps to keep the other two level - they can provide that voice of reason and directly relate because they know the both of you, understand the way you think, and can help to translate the other person's feelings when it is something as little as a misunderstanding. Not only that, but when one person is having a personal issue it's comforting to be reassured that you are loved and wanted and are able to talk to more than one person who is that close to you.

Elle and I have grown a lot closer over these past few weeks, too. It's nice to be able to talk to someone who I have so much in common with - not only the fact that she's a woman, that we share similar interests, or that we are both poly - we are both in pretty much the same situation. I have never liked talking to anyone about any issues Killian and I are having because I don't want anyone to think ill of him just because we happen to be having a problem. Elle isn't 100% unbiased, of course, but she knows both of us and she loves Killian, so I don't have to worry that she'll look at him differently because I am upset about something. We have each other to talk to in the same way that Killian has Elle to talk to when he and I are struggling or me when he and Elle are.

The passed time has also been enlightening. Killian and I currently live separately from Elle, but we are working on doing things more as a family unit to build up to the idea of all living together. We still have our "date nights" (which have come to be more flexible because of the communication issues we have recognized and are working on), but we have also started doing a family night where we specifically do things together. Elle has been spending the night on those nights, which is nice because she and I both like the comfort that sleeping next to Killian brings, and Killian doesn't have to leave one of us for the night to spend it with the other. The three of us went grocery shopping for our respective households and I remarked to him afterwards that I was surprised how comfortable and right it seemed - it was so natural and amazingly family-centric. I think we have started bonding together because of these little things - even as mundane and everyday as the task might seem.

It's been nice to see my own personal progress over the past year of being in a V vs. a triad. I've overcome a lot of jealousy and insecurity issues (not that they don't flare up every now and again, but I am working to recognize them for what they are) and started being genuinely happy for what is happening in Killian's life and the new family we seem to be forming. It certainly hasn’t come easily, but I appreciate it a lot more knowing what it took for me to get here.