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	<title>Comments for eripsa</title>
	
	<link>http://eripsa.org/blog</link>
	<description>dea nova machina</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:28:20 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Shine on you crazy diamond by happyepsilon</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/Im9kRMBrIug/</link>
		<dc:creator>happyepsilon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eripsa.org/blog/2005/08/shine-on-you-crazy-diamond/#comment-25657</guid>
		<description>It annoys me that when I check to see how well I've locked down the internet with "happyepsilon," I find links to shit like this. Shit. like. this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It annoys me that when I check to see how well I&#8217;ve locked down the internet with &#8220;happyepsilon,&#8221; I find links to shit like this. Shit. like. this.</p>
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	<feedburner:origLink>http://eripsa.org/blog/2005/08/shine-on-you-crazy-diamond/comment-page-1/#comment-25657</feedburner:origLink></item>
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		<title>Comment on rss hassle by Steve</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/K3Ice_WnJgA/</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eripsa.org/blog/?p=826#comment-25653</guid>
		<description>*cough* (h/t Steve) *cough*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*cough* (h/t Steve) *cough*</p>
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	<feedburner:origLink>http://eripsa.org/blog/2009/06/rss-hassle/comment-page-1/#comment-25653</feedburner:origLink></item>
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		<title>Comment on the internet makes you stupid by Jon Lawhead</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/RIVTuUP33Ss/</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Lawhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eripsa.org/blog/?p=821#comment-25649</guid>
		<description>A few points.

&lt;b&gt;1.  "When we learned to ride horses, it would have been improper to note that man has learned to gallop on all fours. What we have learned to do with Internet is as much a collaborative effort between ourselves and our machines as horse riding is a collaborative effort between ourselves and our beasts of burden."
&lt;/B&gt;
I like this metaphor, but I feel that a reiteration of the point I made earlier to you is in order.  Ok, sure: like you said, galloping is something that horses do, not something that their human riders do.  It would be literally wrong to say that the cowboys galloped across the plains--galloping isn't something that cowboys do.  By the same token, though, it would be wrong to say that the cowboys' horses vengefully pursued the Indian war party across the plain--vengeful pursuit is not something that horses do, but rather something that people do.  The same activity (moving from one side of the plain to another) can be talked about differently depending on what features of the movement we want to pick out: if we want to talk about how the horses (and cowboys) got from one side to the other, we can mention the galloping that the horses did, and talk about how it was that something the horses did allowed for the rapid movement of the cowboys.  If, on the other hand, we want to talk about &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; the movement took place, or what the &lt;i&gt;intention&lt;/i&gt; of the cowboys were, we have to mention "mental words" like 'belief' and 'desire.'  These two descriptions are, of course, fundamentally related: the galloping of the horses mediates the pursuing that the cowboys did--a totally non-mental process that humans &lt;i&gt;aren't&lt;/i&gt; doing &lt;i&gt;allows for&lt;/i&gt; the performance of the (at least somewhat) mental process of vengefully pursuing.

The same, I think, can be said about computers.  The electron manipulation that the computer "does" &lt;i&gt;mediates&lt;/i&gt; the cognitive processes that humans do--the movement of charges in my calculator mediates my attempt to solve a math problem--but the cognition is still fundamentally a human process.  Computers are just galloping, and cognition consists in pointing the reins in the right direction.

&lt;b&gt;2.  "Such comparisons [to QM] are really unfortunate, since they relegate the complexities of technologically mediated social interactions to the realm of magic and spirituality, which is wholly antithetical to the project of understanding the nature of technology and the consequences of its changes."&lt;/b&gt;

Damn right.  Calling something "mystical" or "spiritual" amounts to throwing up our hands and saying "Oh well!  Science will never understand!"  That's the wrong approach to take with regard to QM, technology, and, well, everything.

&lt;b&gt;3.  "Is it really the manifestation of our collective consciousness, finally unified after tens of thousands of years?"

&lt;/b&gt;
This isn't anything new.  There's been a metaphorical meta-mind out there at least since someone invented language--it's just getting faster and bigger now.  That doesn't mean that anything metaphysical has been created, though: just that there are things going on that defy description in traditional mental vocabulary.  I think that's all Searle means when he says that collective intentionality is a primitive; there are (social) processes going on now that &lt;i&gt;aren't&lt;/i&gt; most usefully described with individual mental words--we need a new vocabulary to pick out the interesting features.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few points.</p>
<p><b>1.  &#8220;When we learned to ride horses, it would have been improper to note that man has learned to gallop on all fours. What we have learned to do with Internet is as much a collaborative effort between ourselves and our machines as horse riding is a collaborative effort between ourselves and our beasts of burden.&#8221;<br />
</b><br />
I like this metaphor, but I feel that a reiteration of the point I made earlier to you is in order.  Ok, sure: like you said, galloping is something that horses do, not something that their human riders do.  It would be literally wrong to say that the cowboys galloped across the plains&#8211;galloping isn&#8217;t something that cowboys do.  By the same token, though, it would be wrong to say that the cowboys&#8217; horses vengefully pursued the Indian war party across the plain&#8211;vengeful pursuit is not something that horses do, but rather something that people do.  The same activity (moving from one side of the plain to another) can be talked about differently depending on what features of the movement we want to pick out: if we want to talk about how the horses (and cowboys) got from one side to the other, we can mention the galloping that the horses did, and talk about how it was that something the horses did allowed for the rapid movement of the cowboys.  If, on the other hand, we want to talk about <i>why</i> the movement took place, or what the <i>intention</i> of the cowboys were, we have to mention &#8220;mental words&#8221; like &#8216;belief&#8217; and &#8216;desire.&#8217;  These two descriptions are, of course, fundamentally related: the galloping of the horses mediates the pursuing that the cowboys did&#8211;a totally non-mental process that humans <i>aren&#8217;t</i> doing <i>allows for</i> the performance of the (at least somewhat) mental process of vengefully pursuing.</p>
<p>The same, I think, can be said about computers.  The electron manipulation that the computer &#8220;does&#8221; <i>mediates</i> the cognitive processes that humans do&#8211;the movement of charges in my calculator mediates my attempt to solve a math problem&#8211;but the cognition is still fundamentally a human process.  Computers are just galloping, and cognition consists in pointing the reins in the right direction.</p>
<p><b>2.  &#8220;Such comparisons [to QM] are really unfortunate, since they relegate the complexities of technologically mediated social interactions to the realm of magic and spirituality, which is wholly antithetical to the project of understanding the nature of technology and the consequences of its changes.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>Damn right.  Calling something &#8220;mystical&#8221; or &#8220;spiritual&#8221; amounts to throwing up our hands and saying &#8220;Oh well!  Science will never understand!&#8221;  That&#8217;s the wrong approach to take with regard to QM, technology, and, well, everything.</p>
<p><b>3.  &#8220;Is it really the manifestation of our collective consciousness, finally unified after tens of thousands of years?&#8221;</p>
<p></b><br />
This isn&#8217;t anything new.  There&#8217;s been a metaphorical meta-mind out there at least since someone invented language&#8211;it&#8217;s just getting faster and bigger now.  That doesn&#8217;t mean that anything metaphysical has been created, though: just that there are things going on that defy description in traditional mental vocabulary.  I think that&#8217;s all Searle means when he says that collective intentionality is a primitive; there are (social) processes going on now that <i>aren&#8217;t</i> most usefully described with individual mental words&#8211;we need a new vocabulary to pick out the interesting features.</p>
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	<feedburner:origLink>http://eripsa.org/blog/2009/06/the-internet-makes-you-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-25649</feedburner:origLink></item>
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		<title>Comment on the internet makes you stupid by voip</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/i5ERtF1wx1s/</link>
		<dc:creator>voip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eripsa.org/blog/?p=821#comment-25648</guid>
		<description>Sometimes you headline is correct, sometimes internet is very useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes you headline is correct, sometimes internet is very useful.</p>
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	<feedburner:origLink>http://eripsa.org/blog/2009/06/the-internet-makes-you-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-25648</feedburner:origLink></item>
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		<title>Comment on Wall-e and gender by Ian</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/wfERLoIgApA/</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 01:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eripsa.org/blog/?p=651#comment-25644</guid>
		<description>I think this issue of gender neutrality in robot sci-fi is done quite well in an episode of the television show Futurama.  I remember that the space ship that the characters use (I'm not really all that familiar with the show) at one point was given a voice to interact with the crew.  At first the voice was ostensibly male and this led to aggression between the comedically masculine Bender robot crew member.  Once the voice was changed to a female voice (apparently, this was all that changed ... just the voice) then this Bending robot began a rather trite traditional, unchallenging romantic interaction with the ship.  I'm not sure if the writers were aware of what they were doing, in terms of gender issues, but I found it hilarious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this issue of gender neutrality in robot sci-fi is done quite well in an episode of the television show Futurama.  I remember that the space ship that the characters use (I&#8217;m not really all that familiar with the show) at one point was given a voice to interact with the crew.  At first the voice was ostensibly male and this led to aggression between the comedically masculine Bender robot crew member.  Once the voice was changed to a female voice (apparently, this was all that changed &#8230; just the voice) then this Bending robot began a rather trite traditional, unchallenging romantic interaction with the ship.  I&#8217;m not sure if the writers were aware of what they were doing, in terms of gender issues, but I found it hilarious.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I’ll turn you into me, I’ll turn you into me by happyepsilon</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/DCa0YaZ3UtE/</link>
		<dc:creator>happyepsilon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 04:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eripsa.org/blog/?p=798#comment-25553</guid>
		<description>that is cool as hell, but you will be hearing from my husband's lawyer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that is cool as hell, but you will be hearing from my husband&#8217;s lawyer.</p>
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	<feedburner:origLink>http://eripsa.org/blog/2009/05/ill-turn-you-into-me-ill-turn-you-into-me/comment-page-1/#comment-25553</feedburner:origLink></item>
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		<title>Comment on I’ll turn you into me, I’ll turn you into me by max</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/pAk_95hw970/</link>
		<dc:creator>max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 23:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eripsa.org/blog/?p=798#comment-25546</guid>
		<description>that is amazing</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that is amazing</p>
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	<feedburner:origLink>http://eripsa.org/blog/2009/05/ill-turn-you-into-me-ill-turn-you-into-me/comment-page-1/#comment-25546</feedburner:origLink></item>
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		<title>Comment on i am the cyborg antichrist by Luke Kaiser</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/dH4jOfnzdv4/</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Kaiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 17:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eripsa.org/blog/?p=795#comment-25537</guid>
		<description>When asked why I have not yet gotten contact lenses, my reply is generally that I am "waiting for bionic super-vision."

The time, it seems, has come.  Sign me up for clinical trials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When asked why I have not yet gotten contact lenses, my reply is generally that I am &#8220;waiting for bionic super-vision.&#8221;</p>
<p>The time, it seems, has come.  Sign me up for clinical trials.</p>
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	<feedburner:origLink>http://eripsa.org/blog/2009/05/i-am-the-cyborg-antichrist/comment-page-1/#comment-25537</feedburner:origLink></item>
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		<title>Comment on robot ethics. mmhm. by eripsa</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/8coPT0Z28Fc/</link>
		<dc:creator>eripsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 17:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eripsa.org/blog/?p=786#comment-25536</guid>
		<description>Not sure I should make this a unique post, but Peter Asaro is generating some media attention by commenting on these developments. Read more here:

http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/robotics/can-terminators-actually-be-our-salvation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure I should make this a unique post, but Peter Asaro is generating some media attention by commenting on these developments. Read more here:</p>
<p><a href="http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/robotics/can-terminators-actually-be-our-salvation" rel="nofollow">http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/robotics/can-terminators-actually-be-our-salvation</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on mass production and authenticity by Rebecca Spizzirri</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/eripsa_comments/~3/sOoLR2ru9e0/</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca Spizzirri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 01:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eripsa.org/blog/?p=777#comment-25305</guid>
		<description>I agree with Anders that it's silly to get attached to mass produced items because they're not unique in origin.  But human beings get attached to many things, some sillier than mass produced lamps.  Now if Anders means economic value rather than emotional value, obviously mass produced lamps still need a price tag because their purpose has value, otherwise there is no incentive to produce them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Anders that it&#8217;s silly to get attached to mass produced items because they&#8217;re not unique in origin.  But human beings get attached to many things, some sillier than mass produced lamps.  Now if Anders means economic value rather than emotional value, obviously mass produced lamps still need a price tag because their purpose has value, otherwise there is no incentive to produce them.</p>
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