si-list

[SI-LIST] Found new simulation site (Doug Smith)

Hi All, A former student at my courses at Oxford University just contacted me. He has started a new site on EMC/SI simulation and was inspired to write monthly articles by my Technical Tidbits. The site is really nice and he has full color pdf papers he has written. The URL is: Click on the articles tab along the top of the screen to see his articles. ...

[SI-LIST] Re: SI/PI tutorials at EDAP Conference, Dec 2nd Shenzhen, China (Bill Martin)

For those able to attend EDAP conference, there are several SI/PI tutorials planned. Hereis the website withdescriptions: Bill ...

[SI-LIST] Senior Signal Integrity Jobs at Cisco, San Jose, CA (Amit Agrawal (amiagra2))

We are looking for senior level signal integrity engineers in Enterprise Switching Technology Group (ESTG), Cisco, San Jose. The position is located in San Jose, CA. The description is given below. If you are interested, please send your resume or contact me directly. Best Regards, ...

[SI-LIST] measuring resonant frequencies of cables (Doug Smith)

Hi Everyone, I have been writing again. Including this month, the last four Technical Tidbits in have been on unusual uses for a comb generator. This month the Technical Tidbit is: Using a Comb Generator with a Pair of Current Probes to Measure Cable Resonance (A Useful Technique When a Tracking Generator is not Available) ...

[SI-LIST] Signal Integrity Quiz (V S)

Here are some set of signal integrity quiz taken from the book Signal Integrity for PCB Designers ...

[SI-LIST] XAUI Routing guidelines and plane considerations on next layers (Rama Mohan Reddy Boreddy)

Hi Experts, In our product we had XAUI interface which runs at 6.25 Gbps. Please provide us the routing guide lines and any specific constraints on next layer In the existing product, they haven't routed any signals on the next layers. Even they haven't used any planes (Ground/Power) on the next layers. Is this requirement must? I saw that vias (Power/Signal) are stiched/used sorrounding the XAUI ...

[SI-LIST] Re: IBIS 5.0 support (Ken Willis)

Hi Mike, Regarding your query below, Sigrity's Channel Designer product has full AMI support. Feel free to contact me off-line if you would like any additional information. Thanks, ...

[SI-LIST] Re: Query on Eye-Diagram of RX ADC (Muranyi, Arpad)

There are several things wrong with your eye diagram, for one, it doesn't seem that you have enough bits in it, but the waveforms which make it up contain too many wiggles which indicate lots of reflections in your layout. As I said before, I don't think you should expect to get your training from emails in this forum. Please take a class or read some books, or at the minimum do a Google search on the topic. Here is one link ...

[SI-LIST] Re: Query on Eye-Diagram of RX ADC (chundi srikanth)

I have uploaded eye-diagrams whatever i have captured in the following link in picasa. Please clarify. Thanks regards Srikanth On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Muranyi, Arpad Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxxwrote: ...

[SI-LIST] Re: Query on Eye-Diagram of RX ADC (Muranyi, Arpad)

I would suggest that you take a basic SI class, or read some books on this topic. It is hard to give you any meaningful answers to your questions in a short email... Arpad ========================================================== -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [] On Behalf Of chundi srikanth ...

[SI-LIST] AW: Query on Eye-Diagram of RX ADC (Havermann, Gert)

Hi Srikanth, unfortunately pictures and attachments are blocked by si-list. there are some file sharing sources available. Due to security issues, a lot of these are blocked by company firewalls. For pictures you might use: to your questions: The eye diagram tells you if everything is OK (wide open eye) or if anything is wrong (closed eye) but it doesn't tell you exactly what went wrong, and where. ...

[SI-LIST] Query on Eye-Diagram of RX ADC (chundi srikanth)

Hi Techies, I have a question on Eye-diagram. We are having an interface between ADC and Virtex-5 FPGA. this interface is High-Speed differential interface. Iam simulating the interface with Hyper Lynx BoardSim. I want to know What are the things i need to look up in the simulation so that i can say my layout is fine? I have generated an eye-diagram using HyperLynx but what exactly it will tell. As far as my knowledge is concerned an eye-diagram can't tell us that our impedance matching and our layout is correct. Correct me if iam wrong. ...

[SI-LIST] Re: FLASH & SDRAM priority in routing (lingomoorthy)

----- Original Message ----- From: lingomoorthy lmoorthy.nimbeon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 3:10 PM Subject: [SI-LIST] FLASH SDRAM priority in routing Hi Friends, ...

[SI-LIST] 10G Ethernet routing guideline (Sankar K)

Hi, We are using 10GE interface in our project. We need guideline for this. Can any one help us to get these document. Thanks and Regards, Sankar.K ________________________________ DISCLAIMER: This message is proprietary to Aricent and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged or confidential information and should not be circulated or used for any purpose ...

[SI-LIST] Re: USB2.0 HS signal integrity analysis (Rick Adolf)

Forgot to mention that I'm looking for someone local to the Bay Area (San Jose/Sunnyvale/Santa Clara California, USA) Thanks, Rick -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [] On Behalf Of Rick Adolf Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:18 PM ...

[SI-LIST] USB2.0 HS signal integrity analysis (Rick Adolf)

I'm looking for someone who has the knowledge and the equipment to do an end-to-end signal integrity analysis (TDR, eye pattern, jitter, crosstalk, ...) of a USB HS peripheral device. The need is immediate. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: ...

[SI-LIST] Serial Link Webinar: Multi-Gigabit Design with Xilinx IBIS-AMI Models (Ronda Katz)

All, SiSoft is hosting a complimentary Serial Link Analysis webinar on how IBIS-AMI based simulation can help you increase design reliability and reduce engineering design time for multi-gigabit serial links. This webinar will be co-presented by Xilinx and SiSoft on Thursday, November 12th at 10 A.M. (PDT), 1:00 P.M. (EDT). Background: Next generation communications, networking, and consumer electronics ...

[SI-LIST] Re: IBIS 5.0 support (Todd Westerhoff)

Mike, SiSoft co-authored the original versions of the spec and has supplied the industry with both a reference simulation platform and sample model source code. We have supported IBIS-AMI models in our QCD software from its introduction to the market in 2007. Todd. Todd Westerhoff ...

[SI-LIST] Re: IBIS 5.0 support (colin_warwick)

Hi Mike, Sorry, I don't know of any formal list, but if you want to browse the IBIS Advanced Technology Modeling Task Group e-mail archive at: ...or the meeting minutes at: ...

[SI-LIST] FLASH & SDRAM priority in routing (lingomoorthy)

Hi Friends, We have FLASH SDRAM in our design and we planned to route ADD MEM signals to these devices from FPGA as daisy chained. Is there any priority in between these devices (FPGA to FLASH and to SDRAM or FPGA to SDRAM and to FLASH ) to get routed in daisy chain method. If so please let me know the reason behind. Thanks, Lingamoorthi ...

[SI-LIST] Re: What's the influence of AC couple capacitor (Istvan Novak)

Eric, Zaiyi, While all responses contained correct advice, the original posting mentioned a big difference in eye pattern between using 10nF or 100nF capacitors. An obvious reason for that might be the use of a non-coded test pattern for the eye simulation. XAUI uses the 8b/10b coding, which limits the low end of the signal spectrum. To get the correct answer, the coded pattern must be used. ...

[SI-LIST] Re: IBIS 5.0 support (Kaufer, Steve)

Hi Mike, Mentor is actively working on AMI support as well. Regards, Steve Kaufer, Director of Engineering, High-Speed Tools Mentor Graphics Corp. ...

[SI-LIST] IBIS 5.0 support (Mike DeVita)

Hi fellow Gurus, Does anyone know if there a list of IC and EDA vendors that support IBIS 5.0? Particularly those that are working on AMI? I have seen Xilinix, IBM, Broadcom, Cadence, and Ansoft come out in support, who else? Mike DeVita Staff Engineer, Application Engineering Characterization VM 480 821-2408 ext 5021 FAX 480 821-1713 EM mike.devita@xxxxxxxxx ...

[SI-LIST] System Test Message (Ray Anderson)

Just testing a minor list configuration adjustment. Raymond Anderson Senior Signal Integrity Staff Engineer Programmable Platforms Development Silicon Technology Group ...

[SI-LIST] Re: Compensating phase diff caused by bends in LVDS signals (Yuriy Shlepnev)

Morten, The easiest way to verify the effect of multiple bends on your signal is to compute S-parameters of a couple of bends with an electromagnetic solver and then concatenate the model with segments of transmission line in a linear circuit solver - in other words use the de-compositional analysis to quickly investigate different scenarios. Examples of such investigation are provided in app. notes #2009_01 and #2009_02 at The bends may have minor effect on propagation of differential signal - only a large number of them may potentially produce some resonances that can ...

[SI-LIST] What's the influence of AC couple capacitor (Eric Bogatin)

Hi folks- I think there is some confusion about the ideal model of a real capacitor, when used in a PDN and when used in series in a transmission line as a DC block for high speed signals. When used in the PDN, the capacitor is typically mounted to the planes with vias in series. The current flows are up through the vias, through the capacitor, across the top of the surface of the cavity and back into the cavity. This path gives a loop inductance to the current path and the equivalent model is an RLC. ...

[SI-LIST] Compensating phase diff caused by bends in LVDS signals (Morten Leikvoll)

Im using arc bends for my LVDS to keep tracks parallel as much as possible, but any 90deg turn introduces a +/- 2*Pi*(r1-r2)/4 phase difference, independant of radius (0.314mm using 0.1mm wires with 0.1mm air gap). Now, to end up with minimum phase difference, I basically have to route to/from East/West or North/South to naturally cancel all phase differences. This is not always possible, and I wonder where and what method is best to correct for this. My thoughts are to compensate with a serpentine close to, but after source ...

[SI-LIST] Re: dielectric constant FR4 ITEQ 180 (Alexander Ippich)

Hi Kosta, please find attached the datasheet values for 1GHz. Regards, alex __________________________________________________________________ Alexander Ippich Sr. Signal Integrity Engineer ...

[SI-LIST] Re: IBIS for PDN (Han, Guobing)

Hi Lynne, Thanks a lot for your reply. As we know, SPICE model for PDN analysis is very time-consuming and so-called methodology of Icct is not accurate enough. So I want to imrpove it by generating IBIS for PDN or by other ways. Any suggestions? Thanks, Guobing ...

[SI-LIST] Re: EMI simulation using speed2K (Han, Guobing)

Hi Experts, Yes, SpeedXp is the first step in EMI design and troubleshooting, just like Ansoft SIwave. As for more practical 3D issues, I think SIwave+HFSS or SpeedXP+CST are two good candidates till now. Thanks, Guobing 2009/4/24, Kbalasubramanian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...

[SI-LIST] Re: ODT in IBIS (AR Rafiq)

Adnan, You can use the [Model Selector] IBIS keyword. You can read about it in the IBIS v5.0 spec . Let me know if this makes sense, and if you have any specific questions. Regards, -- Abdulrahman Rafiq ...

[SI-LIST] set digest (Tom Zych)

------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: For help: ...

[SI-LIST] Re: dielectric constant FR4 ITEQ 180 (wolfgang . maichen)

You may want to have a look at Istvan Novak's webpage () - go to the Tools section and you will find a few Excel spreadsheets that do what you want - calculate causal loss tangent and dielectric constant. Wolfgang ...

[SI-LIST] Re: coupling calculations (olaney)

The real problem here is that the most general case was asked for. If there are symmetry conditions that can be imposed, the situation becomes much simpler. Orin Laney On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:04:22 +0800 Han, Guobing han.guobing@xxxxxxxxx writes: Hi Craig, ...

[SI-LIST] Re: ODT in IBIS (Heyfitch)

Adnan, Use model selector to pick a sub-model. - Vadim On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Yassin, Adnan adnan.yassin@xxxxxxxxxwrote: Hello.. ...

[SI-LIST] DDR3 LA riser card (Heyfitch)

I am looking for a used, or un- used FS2351 FuturePlus DDR3 riser card, which is compatible with Agilent logic analyzer. Alternately, I would consider FS2355 counterpart for Tek LA. If you are interested in selling it please contact me by email with a quote. Vadim Heyfitch heyfitch@xxxxxxxx ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: ...

[SI-LIST] ODT in IBIS (Yassin, Adnan)

Hello.. How do I model ODT (On Die Termination) in IBIS? I checked the Specs and couldn't find the info there. I greatly appreciate if someone send me an example. Thanks, -Adnan ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: ...

[SI-LIST] Re: IBIS for PDN (Lynne D. Green)

Hello, Guobing, The major vendors have PDN analysis software. Each has different algorithms and user interfaces. Of the common issues below, the first two are probably most important. Common issues: * What functionality do you need? This could include analyzing Z(PDN), simulating for current and voltage at each Vcc and GND pin on every IC, showing constraint violations for delta_Vcc, running signal integrity ...

[SI-LIST] dielectric constant FR4 ITEQ 180 (Costel)

i need help with calculating the dielectric constant for FR4 ITEQ 180 i know that for 1MHz the dielectric constant is 4.5. is there any way to calculate the dielectric constant to 1GHz or 100MHz? Please if there is a formula or some calculatror (software)or just anyone can help with some links i will be very great full. kind regards, ...

[SI-LIST] Re: Knee Frequency (colin_warwick)

Hi Lingamoorthi, A while back, I posted a short video on the shape of the NRZ spectrum at: The section towards the end explores the effect of rise/fall time on spectrum. Hope this helps! -- Colin Warwick ...

[SI-LIST] Re: Ripple current qn? (steve weir)

Excessive ripple current will cause the capacitors to overheat and fail prematurely. Steve. joe jose wrote: Can somebody give the importance of ripple current in the capacitors. What effect it will have if the requirement is not met in the design? -Joe ...

[SI-LIST] Ripple current qn? (joe jose)

Can somebody give the importance of ripple current in the capacitors. What effect it will have if the requirement is not met in the design? -Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: ...

[SI-LIST] Re: Whai's the influence of AC couple capacitor (steve weir)

There is no good reason to try and place the SRF of a series coupling capacitor inside the signal band. There are good reasons not to. Steve. Zaiyi Liao wrote: Hello zhangkun: Thank you for your rapid feedback. I think If it's an ideal capacitor, 100nF is better than 10nF. But self-resonance frequency of a ...

[SI-LIST] Re: Knee Frequency (steve weir)

Below the knee frequency, harmonic energy falls off at an approximately -1 slope. Above the knee frequency harmonic energy falls off at approximately a -2 slope. Steve. lingomoorthy wrote: Hi Friends, Can you please let me know about Knee Frequency? ...

[SI-LIST] IBIS for PDN (Han, Guobing)

Hi all, Have someone tried to study the IBIS for PDN? What's biggest problem and challenge? Thanks, Guobing -- Guobing HAN, ...

[SI-LIST] 答复: Whai's the influence of AC couple capacitor (Zhangkun)

AC50 50 ADSESLESRC50 S21 SI ...

[SI-LIST] Re: coupling calculations (Han, Guobing)

Btw, if you have more confidence and the substrate is pure, such as only air, you can try to get the results directly based on conformal mapping. :) 2009/11/3, Han, Guobing han.guobing@xxxxxxxxx: Hi Craig, I have a idea. First, deriative the solution for two conductor based on conformal mapping . Then, try to solve the four conductor problem based on array theroy, that is, from [Z]4*4 to [Z]8*8. ...

[SI-LIST] Re: Whai's the influence of AC couple capacitor (Zaiyi Liao)

Hello zhangkun: Thank you for your rapid feedback. I think If it's an ideal capacitor, 100nF is better than 10nF. But self-resonance frequency of a capacitor is 1/sqrt(LC), it's hard to get A high self-resonance frequency for large capacitor. I find it works well in some design using 100nF as AC couple capacitor in lower frequency(~100Mhz). So I'm a little confuse on how ...

[SI-LIST] 答复: Whai's the influence of AC couple capacitor (Zhangkun)

Hi Liao In the case of AC coupling, 10nF and 100nF is different. If you want to study the case, please measure the S21 of 10nF and 100nF. In my view, 100nF is much better than 10nF, if they are in the same package. Hope this would be helpful for you. Best Regards ...

[SI-LIST] Re: coupling calculations (Han, Guobing)

Hi Craig, I have a idea. First, deriative the solution for two conductor based on conformal mapping . Then, try to solve the four conductor problem based on array theroy, that is, from [Z]4*4 to [Z]8*8. How do you think of it? Best wishes and good luck! ...