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	<title>Comments for What Would JT Do?</title>
	
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	<description>Fighting religion tooth and claw!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:45:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on I have “Die Cis Scum” questions by skepticalmath</title>
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		<dc:creator>skepticalmath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That's a false analogy. Die cis scum plays off the fact that violence among cis and trans people, and the threat contained therein, is entirely (statistically) one-directional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a false analogy. Die cis scum plays off the fact that violence among cis and trans people, and the threat contained therein, is entirely (statistically) one-directional.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I have “Die Cis Scum” questions by Sas</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/wwjtd/comments/~3/_ajleJNi1CA/</link>
		<dc:creator>Sas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/?p=7484#comment-61227</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; an inner-city dweller saying “die black scum”?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

WTF? The inner-city dwellers who &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; black don't count?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> an inner-city dweller saying “die black scum”?</p></blockquote>
<p>WTF? The inner-city dwellers who <i>are</i> black don&#8217;t count?</p>
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		<title>Comment on I have “Die Cis Scum” questions by Wes</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/wwjtd/comments/~3/T0ljZUi8GrA/</link>
		<dc:creator>Wes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/?p=7484#comment-61222</guid>
		<description>You seem to be saying that advocating violence against a group of people is justified by being in fear of violence from that group. Does that apply to other groups? Would you be comfortable with Isrealis saying "die Arab scum" or an inner-city dweller saying "die black scum"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to be saying that advocating violence against a group of people is justified by being in fear of violence from that group. Does that apply to other groups? Would you be comfortable with Isrealis saying &#8220;die Arab scum&#8221; or an inner-city dweller saying &#8220;die black scum&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Traditional values by Ysanne</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/wwjtd/comments/~3/8g2LkNsLu3I/</link>
		<dc:creator>Ysanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/?p=7597#comment-61221</guid>
		<description>This whole pledge stuff creeps me out. It's the kind of ideological propaganda that's always pointed out when less-than-democratic countries engage in it.
Then again, maybe not all of them do: I went to school in Hungary well before 1989. We never had any collective rituals of pledging allegiance to anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole pledge stuff creeps me out. It&#8217;s the kind of ideological propaganda that&#8217;s always pointed out when less-than-democratic countries engage in it.<br />
Then again, maybe not all of them do: I went to school in Hungary well before 1989. We never had any collective rituals of pledging allegiance to anything.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I have “Die Cis Scum” questions by Xanthe</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/wwjtd/comments/~3/FWlCtzwrREQ/</link>
		<dc:creator>Xanthe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/?p=7484#comment-61220</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;That would be silly.&lt;/i&gt;
:-) Yes, it would.

Looking at things a little more globally then: how many people would see the word ‘cis’ and more or less immediately understand it to apply to non-transgender people? Organic chemists, historians, and lexicographers would probably jump to alternate definition of cis first, before considering it to have an application to gender.

So I see this as speaking to people who are already knowledgeable of transgenderism and issues of violence = not the wider population at large. Even within the smaller LGBT activist world, ‘grues’ would have quite a bit further to go as an experiment in memetic engineering, before it would be readily known to mean ‘gender congruent people who also are scum by virtue of violently oppressing gender variant people’.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>That would be silly.</i><br />
 <img src='http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Yes, it would.</p>
<p>Looking at things a little more globally then: how many people would see the word ‘cis’ and more or less immediately understand it to apply to non-transgender people? Organic chemists, historians, and lexicographers would probably jump to alternate definition of cis first, before considering it to have an application to gender.</p>
<p>So I see this as speaking to people who are already knowledgeable of transgenderism and issues of violence = not the wider population at large. Even within the smaller LGBT activist world, ‘grues’ would have quite a bit further to go as an experiment in memetic engineering, before it would be readily known to mean ‘gender congruent people who also are scum by virtue of violently oppressing gender variant people’.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I have “Die Cis Scum” questions by Natalie Reed</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/wwjtd/comments/~3/_D7kYHWQcSo/</link>
		<dc:creator>Natalie Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/?p=7484#comment-61216</guid>
		<description>The difference is VIOLENCE.

Go look up how much risk there is for atheists being murdered by Christians. Now how about that one in twelve risk for trans women being murdered by cis people. Or one in eight if you happen to be a trans woman of colour.

"Die Cis Scum" is a mirror. It reflects the risk, fear, hostility and hatred we live with ALL THE FUCKING TIME. It holds a mirror up to cis privilege, and SHOULD make you uncomfortable.

...

As a side-note, I'm not sure I'm wholly comfortable with the "I'm not cis, but I'm not trans either" thing. If you're not trans, you're cis. That's sort of the only thing cis really means. You don't have to be 100% secure and consistent in your gender identity to be cis, you simply need to fit into basic cultural normativities and expectations of gender. And fitting them needn't be completely perfect. I'm reminded of how when I explained the definition of transgender as an umbrella term to my dad, he said "so I'm transgender, then". I said "what?!" and he said "I like to cook!". Failing to fit PERFECTLY into an assigned gender role doesn't make someone trans, nor does it mean they aren't cis. And you absolutely live with cis privilege. I'm not saying that you don't have a right to self-identify outside normative gender, I'm just saying that if you aren't falling under the (broad) rubric of "trans", you really don't have much of a claim to shirk the term cis. At the end of the day, after all, "cis" isn't about cis people are identified. It's about how we frame the way trans people are identified, marked and ultimately targeted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference is VIOLENCE.</p>
<p>Go look up how much risk there is for atheists being murdered by Christians. Now how about that one in twelve risk for trans women being murdered by cis people. Or one in eight if you happen to be a trans woman of colour.</p>
<p>&#8220;Die Cis Scum&#8221; is a mirror. It reflects the risk, fear, hostility and hatred we live with ALL THE FUCKING TIME. It holds a mirror up to cis privilege, and SHOULD make you uncomfortable.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>As a side-note, I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m wholly comfortable with the &#8220;I&#8217;m not cis, but I&#8217;m not trans either&#8221; thing. If you&#8217;re not trans, you&#8217;re cis. That&#8217;s sort of the only thing cis really means. You don&#8217;t have to be 100% secure and consistent in your gender identity to be cis, you simply need to fit into basic cultural normativities and expectations of gender. And fitting them needn&#8217;t be completely perfect. I&#8217;m reminded of how when I explained the definition of transgender as an umbrella term to my dad, he said &#8220;so I&#8217;m transgender, then&#8221;. I said &#8220;what?!&#8221; and he said &#8220;I like to cook!&#8221;. Failing to fit PERFECTLY into an assigned gender role doesn&#8217;t make someone trans, nor does it mean they aren&#8217;t cis. And you absolutely live with cis privilege. I&#8217;m not saying that you don&#8217;t have a right to self-identify outside normative gender, I&#8217;m just saying that if you aren&#8217;t falling under the (broad) rubric of &#8220;trans&#8221;, you really don&#8217;t have much of a claim to shirk the term cis. At the end of the day, after all, &#8220;cis&#8221; isn&#8217;t about cis people are identified. It&#8217;s about how we frame the way trans people are identified, marked and ultimately targeted.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Traditional values by R. Johnston</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/wwjtd/comments/~3/MWhfyxG66Tw/</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/?p=7597#comment-61215</guid>
		<description>The pledge was always disgusting propaganda and an effort at mind control.  That it was changed to include a religious mandate didn't really make it any worse, it just made how awful the pledge is more obvious to people who don't get that state mandated patriotism is every bit as dangerous as state mandated religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pledge was always disgusting propaganda and an effort at mind control.  That it was changed to include a religious mandate didn&#8217;t really make it any worse, it just made how awful the pledge is more obvious to people who don&#8217;t get that state mandated patriotism is every bit as dangerous as state mandated religion.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I have “Die Cis Scum” questions by Christina</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/wwjtd/comments/~3/VjyzuSmBPNI/</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/?p=7484#comment-61213</guid>
		<description>True, that is something that make "die cis scum" stand out from my other examples.

However I don't know if that makes "die cis scum"  more or less objectionable. All of the examples could be shown to be unique in some way. Example: able-bodied people made a point of systemically sterilizing people with disabilities for hundreds of years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, that is something that make &#8220;die cis scum&#8221; stand out from my other examples.</p>
<p>However I don&#8217;t know if that makes &#8220;die cis scum&#8221;  more or less objectionable. All of the examples could be shown to be unique in some way. Example: able-bodied people made a point of systemically sterilizing people with disabilities for hundreds of years.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I have “Die Cis Scum” questions by Christina</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/wwjtd/comments/~3/_zi8E1Y1fH4/</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/?p=7484#comment-61211</guid>
		<description>Well, I'm not saying the *original* person posting die cis scum should have used Grue, a word invented later. That would be silly. 

I mean it more globally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m not saying the *original* person posting die cis scum should have used Grue, a word invented later. That would be silly. </p>
<p>I mean it more globally.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I have “Die Cis Scum” questions by Xanthe</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/freethoughtblogs/wwjtd/comments/~3/MxClRXgOTn4/</link>
		<dc:creator>Xanthe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 23:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/?p=7484#comment-61206</guid>
		<description>… which I know &lt;b&gt;you know&lt;/b&gt; full well since you linked to Natalie’s post…

That sentence I wrote might make a bit more sense with those extra words. :-) Just to back up my assertion that “Die Trans Scum” &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a real thing, where the other examples in the OP are somewhat more debatable (e.g. “Die Christian Scum” is definitely a real thing in parts of the Muslim world… not so much in the religiose US).

Violence against trans people sometimes dominates the statistics of &lt;b&gt;all&lt;/b&gt; violence against LGBT people, far out of proportion to their demographic representation. For example, quoting the  &lt;a href="http://www.avp.org/publications/reports/documents/NCAVPHateViolenceReport2011Finaledjlfinaledits_000.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;2011 NCAVP report on Hate Violence against LGBTQH* communities in the US&lt;/a&gt;, page 19:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Transgender women represented 44% of anti-LGBTQH murders in 2010 but only represented 11% of the total reports.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; This finding reflects NCAVP’s 2009 finding that transgender women experience a disproportionate impact of anti-LGBTQH murder. Within LGBTQH communities, transgender people represent 8.6% of the general population. The overrepresentation of transgender people among survivors of violence and murder victims highlights the disparate impact that anti-LGBTQH violence, particularly murder, has on transgender women. This suggests that transgender people are at greater risk of being a target for violence than non-transgender lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer and/or HIV-affected people, and that the violence faced by transgender people is more severe.  Given that this data is in part based on media reports, it is unlikely that it represents an increase of reporting among transgender women and their families and friends.  Instead these statistics indicate that that bias based on gender identity is pervasive in the United States.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The figure for 2009 was worse: eight fewer murders overall, but transgender women made up 50%.

* Q = Queer, H = HIV-affected community</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>… which I know <b>you know</b> full well since you linked to Natalie’s post…</p>
<p>That sentence I wrote might make a bit more sense with those extra words. <img src='http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Just to back up my assertion that “Die Trans Scum” <i>is</i> a real thing, where the other examples in the OP are somewhat more debatable (e.g. “Die Christian Scum” is definitely a real thing in parts of the Muslim world… not so much in the religiose US).</p>
<p>Violence against trans people sometimes dominates the statistics of <b>all</b> violence against LGBT people, far out of proportion to their demographic representation. For example, quoting the  <a href="http://www.avp.org/publications/reports/documents/NCAVPHateViolenceReport2011Finaledjlfinaledits_000.pdf" rel="nofollow">2011 NCAVP report on Hate Violence against LGBTQH* communities in the US</a>, page 19:</p>
<blockquote><p><b><i>Transgender women represented 44% of anti-LGBTQH murders in 2010 but only represented 11% of the total reports.</i></b> This finding reflects NCAVP’s 2009 finding that transgender women experience a disproportionate impact of anti-LGBTQH murder. Within LGBTQH communities, transgender people represent 8.6% of the general population. The overrepresentation of transgender people among survivors of violence and murder victims highlights the disparate impact that anti-LGBTQH violence, particularly murder, has on transgender women. This suggests that transgender people are at greater risk of being a target for violence than non-transgender lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer and/or HIV-affected people, and that the violence faced by transgender people is more severe.  Given that this data is in part based on media reports, it is unlikely that it represents an increase of reporting among transgender women and their families and friends.  Instead these statistics indicate that that bias based on gender identity is pervasive in the United States.</p></blockquote>
<p>The figure for 2009 was worse: eight fewer murders overall, but transgender women made up 50%.</p>
<p>* Q = Queer, H = HIV-affected community</p>
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