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	<title>Comments for Geek Studies</title>
	
	<link>http://www.geekstudies.org</link>
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		<title>Comment on Sexism and Misogyny in Geek Culture by Enn</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/04/sexism-and-misogyny-in-geek-culture/comment-page-1#comment-2224</link>
		<dc:creator>Enn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=276#comment-2224</guid>
		<description>I think that misogyny in both geek and everyday culture are linked very closely. If we talk about why many geeks find sexism acceptable than we must talk about society as a whole.

I used to think that sexism in the world was entirely due to men, but I think the factor has more to do with how both genders build up their identity as children. For instance, When males grow up they have to separate themselves from the femininity because guys who show their "sensitive" emotions or thoughts will be ridiculed for being feminine.

This isn't fair to both boys and girls because it devalues femininity which leads to sexism for girls (since girls are expected to be feminine). Additionally, this causes problems for males because they will have to live up to the "superior" ideal of masculinity and if they don't, the will be considered feminine or female-like. In other words, a sissy.

I think identity-building has a big root in the reason why some people find blatant sexism acceptable. Such as female characters always having to be the one rescued, females characters usually having to look sexually attractive in movies/games, and even in school, not just online. In my graphic engineering class, mostly dominated by men, a guy needed help and the teacher assigned a girl to aid him. One guy sitting next to him said, "haha you need help from a girl." What was most disturbing was the girl was right in front of him, including another girl, me, who was sitting next to him.

Since, I’m a female, I have to acknowledge that I can’t completely form a guy's perspective, but I will try tie up my ideas to geek culture. Because males, at a very earlier age, are pressured by society to be strong and powerful, geeks males try to find ways to make themselves live up to that ideal. Some find answers in putting-down geek females online - saying things like "females stink at (this or that),” attempting to build up their sense of worth, and the pride of being a male. Other ways they can make themselves look stronger (than women) is to insult other males by calling them “you’re a women!” I’ve witnessed this in my engineering class and in online games/forums. Sometimes I question why I let myself be exposed to this kinds of blatant disrespect, but I love gaming and if girl geeks are to be accepted into the gaming culture, we have to show we are strong by brushing off slurs like these.

Although the gaming culture does show many forms of sexism towards women, I think that people are becoming more and more tolerant of female gamers and females as a whole. Most tolerant people are older and mature. The many friends I’ve met through gaming respect me as they do the other males, the ones that don’t respect me are usually the ones who don’t have respect for most other people - their parents, themselves and even their friends. However, there are males and females who just disrespect women period, and those are the people who’s opinion don’t matter because their opinions are just full of hatred and no reason behind it.

I don't think it's a question of why geeks don’t accept girl geeks. It has more to do with the complexity of how people find their identities. I see girl geeks almost as if they were the tomboys of the internet/media. Girls aren’t being bashed for being geeks, they are being bashed for being a girl and the privilege that they can be feminine (and even masculine) and not be ridiculed for it, and since you can say anything on the net, some geeks will say anything to feel more big and superior. That’s just human nature. But of course, it’s not a right or just excuse in the treatment of women.

In order for both genders to become more tolerant of the other, we have to stop treating females and males like they are totally different. We act like we are all either pink or blue, why can't we be green, somewhere in the middle? When I grew up as a child I thought I was the same as a guy apart from physical characteristics and sexuality. I had to steadily learn that society did not view females in society (including the geek culture) in the same way they did men. I thought that I was a guy in a woman's body when really, it was society that was distorted. Today, there is no doubt I'm a women and my boyfriend is pretty sure I'm a women even though I may "act like” a geek sometimes. Society acts like femininity is only acceptable to women, while masculinity is more valued in society from both genders. It is ridiculous.

P.S: Even though I spent a great deal of time reading everything above and writing this, I’m glad I did because it organized thoughts and gave me new insights, and I hope it helps other girls or guys who are looking for answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that misogyny in both geek and everyday culture are linked very closely. If we talk about why many geeks find sexism acceptable than we must talk about society as a whole.</p>
<p>I used to think that sexism in the world was entirely due to men, but I think the factor has more to do with how both genders build up their identity as children. For instance, When males grow up they have to separate themselves from the femininity because guys who show their &#8220;sensitive&#8221; emotions or thoughts will be ridiculed for being feminine.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t fair to both boys and girls because it devalues femininity which leads to sexism for girls (since girls are expected to be feminine). Additionally, this causes problems for males because they will have to live up to the &#8220;superior&#8221; ideal of masculinity and if they don&#8217;t, the will be considered feminine or female-like. In other words, a sissy.</p>
<p>I think identity-building has a big root in the reason why some people find blatant sexism acceptable. Such as female characters always having to be the one rescued, females characters usually having to look sexually attractive in movies/games, and even in school, not just online. In my graphic engineering class, mostly dominated by men, a guy needed help and the teacher assigned a girl to aid him. One guy sitting next to him said, &#8220;haha you need help from a girl.&#8221; What was most disturbing was the girl was right in front of him, including another girl, me, who was sitting next to him.</p>
<p>Since, I’m a female, I have to acknowledge that I can’t completely form a guy&#8217;s perspective, but I will try tie up my ideas to geek culture. Because males, at a very earlier age, are pressured by society to be strong and powerful, geeks males try to find ways to make themselves live up to that ideal. Some find answers in putting-down geek females online &#8211; saying things like &#8220;females stink at (this or that),” attempting to build up their sense of worth, and the pride of being a male. Other ways they can make themselves look stronger (than women) is to insult other males by calling them “you’re a women!” I’ve witnessed this in my engineering class and in online games/forums. Sometimes I question why I let myself be exposed to this kinds of blatant disrespect, but I love gaming and if girl geeks are to be accepted into the gaming culture, we have to show we are strong by brushing off slurs like these.</p>
<p>Although the gaming culture does show many forms of sexism towards women, I think that people are becoming more and more tolerant of female gamers and females as a whole. Most tolerant people are older and mature. The many friends I’ve met through gaming respect me as they do the other males, the ones that don’t respect me are usually the ones who don’t have respect for most other people &#8211; their parents, themselves and even their friends. However, there are males and females who just disrespect women period, and those are the people who’s opinion don’t matter because their opinions are just full of hatred and no reason behind it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a question of why geeks don’t accept girl geeks. It has more to do with the complexity of how people find their identities. I see girl geeks almost as if they were the tomboys of the internet/media. Girls aren’t being bashed for being geeks, they are being bashed for being a girl and the privilege that they can be feminine (and even masculine) and not be ridiculed for it, and since you can say anything on the net, some geeks will say anything to feel more big and superior. That’s just human nature. But of course, it’s not a right or just excuse in the treatment of women.</p>
<p>In order for both genders to become more tolerant of the other, we have to stop treating females and males like they are totally different. We act like we are all either pink or blue, why can&#8217;t we be green, somewhere in the middle? When I grew up as a child I thought I was the same as a guy apart from physical characteristics and sexuality. I had to steadily learn that society did not view females in society (including the geek culture) in the same way they did men. I thought that I was a guy in a woman&#8217;s body when really, it was society that was distorted. Today, there is no doubt I&#8217;m a women and my boyfriend is pretty sure I&#8217;m a women even though I may &#8220;act like” a geek sometimes. Society acts like femininity is only acceptable to women, while masculinity is more valued in society from both genders. It is ridiculous.</p>
<p>P.S: Even though I spent a great deal of time reading everything above and writing this, I’m glad I did because it organized thoughts and gave me new insights, and I hope it helps other girls or guys who are looking for answers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Game Minus by Geek Studies » Encouraging Ourselves to Death</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/08/new-game-minus/comment-page-1#comment-2222</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Studies » Encouraging Ourselves to Death</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=462#comment-2222</guid>
		<description>[...] post continues a loosely-linked series of posts (including this, this, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post continues a loosely-linked series of posts (including this, this, [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Player Types, Styles, and Contexts by Geek Studies » Encouraging Ourselves to Death</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/08/player-types-styles-and-contexts/comment-page-1#comment-2221</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Studies » Encouraging Ourselves to Death</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=490#comment-2221</guid>
		<description>[...] post continues a loosely-linked series of posts (including this, this, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post continues a loosely-linked series of posts (including this, this, [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Geeks vs. Nerds by Jamie</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/06/geeks-vs-nerds/comment-page-1#comment-2219</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/06/geeks-vs-nerds#comment-2219</guid>
		<description>a geek is a person who is mostly focused on one thing
a nerd is someone who is socially weird</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a geek is a person who is mostly focused on one thing<br />
a nerd is someone who is socially weird</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Game of “Find the Story” by Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/11/a-game-of-find-the-story/comment-page-1#comment-2218</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=526#comment-2218</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Wouldn’t it make sense, though, that the imposition of a story by designers limits the sandbox quality of a game? […] It sounds like you’re looking for more/better story arcs ‘built into’ the game, whereas emergent gameplay tends to come from more open-ended environments.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, yes and no. Yes, I am looking for more/better story arcs built into games. But no, while this does sometimes come at the expense of more open-ended, player-driven narrative (an expense I am willing to pay for a better story in some games), it does not necessarily have to be so in all cases.

My point in this post, I suppose, is that we can come up with our own narratives for games, but it can only take us so far. By the end, I am indeed describing things we can do to encourage a sort of "interactive authorial narrative" potentially at the expense of "sandbox/emergent narrative."

Don't get me wrong: I like emergent gameplay just fine. I am happy for this to be the primary narrative experience for some games. But I take umbrage with the idea that this is THE only narrative mechanism, or even the best narrative mechanism, for games in general. I think that some really excellently executed games with more author-driven narratives stand as a testament to the fact that player-driven narrative is not the be-all, end-all to telling stories in games.

That said, if NPCs in &lt;i&gt;Fallout 3&lt;/i&gt; were not so single-mindedly obsessed with throwing away their own lives to attack you, for instance, this would &lt;i&gt;enhance&lt;/i&gt; the sandbox element, if anything. We could then reasonably go ahead and play pacifist merchants to our heart's content. 

I have no problem with the relative aimlessness of open-ended, sandbox play, but &lt;i&gt;Fallout 3&lt;/i&gt; also has a central storyline with a discrete plot and themes. I just note that the game might be more affecting if there were some &lt;i&gt;point&lt;/i&gt; to playing through the game not just as a good guy, but as whatever guy (or gal) you choose to create. I don't think that addressing my character's cannibalism in the plot stories would necessarily take away from the experience of playing a psycho elsewhere in the wastes—do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Wouldn’t it make sense, though, that the imposition of a story by designers limits the sandbox quality of a game? […] It sounds like you’re looking for more/better story arcs ‘built into’ the game, whereas emergent gameplay tends to come from more open-ended environments.</i></p>
<p>Well, yes and no. Yes, I am looking for more/better story arcs built into games. But no, while this does sometimes come at the expense of more open-ended, player-driven narrative (an expense I am willing to pay for a better story in some games), it does not necessarily have to be so in all cases.</p>
<p>My point in this post, I suppose, is that we can come up with our own narratives for games, but it can only take us so far. By the end, I am indeed describing things we can do to encourage a sort of &#8220;interactive authorial narrative&#8221; potentially at the expense of &#8220;sandbox/emergent narrative.&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong: I like emergent gameplay just fine. I am happy for this to be the primary narrative experience for some games. But I take umbrage with the idea that this is THE only narrative mechanism, or even the best narrative mechanism, for games in general. I think that some really excellently executed games with more author-driven narratives stand as a testament to the fact that player-driven narrative is not the be-all, end-all to telling stories in games.</p>
<p>That said, if NPCs in <i>Fallout 3</i> were not so single-mindedly obsessed with throwing away their own lives to attack you, for instance, this would <i>enhance</i> the sandbox element, if anything. We could then reasonably go ahead and play pacifist merchants to our heart&#8217;s content. </p>
<p>I have no problem with the relative aimlessness of open-ended, sandbox play, but <i>Fallout 3</i> also has a central storyline with a discrete plot and themes. I just note that the game might be more affecting if there were some <i>point</i> to playing through the game not just as a good guy, but as whatever guy (or gal) you choose to create. I don&#8217;t think that addressing my character&#8217;s cannibalism in the plot stories would necessarily take away from the experience of playing a psycho elsewhere in the wastes—do you?</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Game of “Find the Story” by Church</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/11/a-game-of-find-the-story/comment-page-1#comment-2217</link>
		<dc:creator>Church</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=526#comment-2217</guid>
		<description>Wouldn't it make sense, though, that the imposition of a story by designers limits the sandbox quality of a game? C.f. Machinima (the ultimate user-driven stories) which tends to use systems that are more open-ended, or at least have an open-ended option. E.g., Halo.

It sounds like you're looking for more/better story arcs 'built into' the game, whereas emergent gameplay tends to come from more open-ended environments.

Aside: One of my favorite stories was when the guys from Red vs. Blue were invited up to Bungie to test the Halo 3 engine. The employees there regularly jump into server matches to gametest/take a break. One guy jumped into the server the RvB guys were using to discuss the machinima option. Spying a group of Spartans suicidally huddled together, he immediately went into attack mode. The RvBers just turned and just *starred* at the intruder. He stopped, obviously a little unnerved by this unexpected response, and signed off.

Stray thought: If you described what you were doing in F3 without the backstories, I'd have assumed you were doing a speedrun, which in Marathon (yeah I know, but it's the only game I've played really extensively) was as often about degree of difficulty as it was about actual speed. People would complete levels, e.g., without killing anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it make sense, though, that the imposition of a story by designers limits the sandbox quality of a game? C.f. Machinima (the ultimate user-driven stories) which tends to use systems that are more open-ended, or at least have an open-ended option. E.g., Halo.</p>
<p>It sounds like you&#8217;re looking for more/better story arcs &#8216;built into&#8217; the game, whereas emergent gameplay tends to come from more open-ended environments.</p>
<p>Aside: One of my favorite stories was when the guys from Red vs. Blue were invited up to Bungie to test the Halo 3 engine. The employees there regularly jump into server matches to gametest/take a break. One guy jumped into the server the RvB guys were using to discuss the machinima option. Spying a group of Spartans suicidally huddled together, he immediately went into attack mode. The RvBers just turned and just *starred* at the intruder. He stopped, obviously a little unnerved by this unexpected response, and signed off.</p>
<p>Stray thought: If you described what you were doing in F3 without the backstories, I&#8217;d have assumed you were doing a speedrun, which in Marathon (yeah I know, but it&#8217;s the only game I&#8217;ve played really extensively) was as often about degree of difficulty as it was about actual speed. People would complete levels, e.g., without killing anyone.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Game Minus by Geek Studies » A Game of “Find the Story”</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/08/new-game-minus/comment-page-1#comment-2216</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Studies » A Game of “Find the Story”</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=462#comment-2216</guid>
		<description>[...] I discussed in my previous post, games can be played with attention to appeals offered by immersion in story and appeals offered by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I discussed in my previous post, games can be played with attention to appeals offered by immersion in story and appeals offered by [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on There Are Indeed Women on the Internet by Women: the patriarchy needs YOUR support! « Digital immigrant</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/10/there-are-indeed-women-on-the-internet/comment-page-1#comment-2209</link>
		<dc:creator>Women: the patriarchy needs YOUR support! « Digital immigrant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/10/there-are-indeed-women-on-the-internet#comment-2209</guid>
		<description>[...] system needs women to believe they don’t belong on the internet. The system needs women, women like you and me, to not do anything about other women’s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] system needs women to believe they don&#8217;t belong on the internet. The system needs women, women like you and me, to not do anything about other women&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Geeks vs. Nerds by Eh...</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/06/geeks-vs-nerds/comment-page-1#comment-2208</link>
		<dc:creator>Eh...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/06/geeks-vs-nerds#comment-2208</guid>
		<description>I'm trying to figure out which is which as well, as I'm currently writing a definition essay for my college english class with the purpose of defining "nerd." From everything I've read, my own opinion has slowly strengthened in the direction of a nerd being a D&amp;D buff, totally into video games, excelling at math and science, taking notes, dressing slightly offish (out of social complacency, the lack of NEEDING to fit in). What I've formulated from what I've read about geeks is that they put forth an effort to socially fit in, and this effort drives them to find a social niche for themselves, which is usually becoming a technical handiman. They practically thrive on being able to fix things for people, including (but not limited to) iPods, PCs, cell phones, etc. Although a geek doesn't naturally fit in socially, they are attention hungry; nerds... not so much. Another thing about geeks, they somehow manage to find ways to be stylish without looking normal (nerds don't look normal, but at the same time don't have anything close to an edge on style, having parted their hair in the same spot since age 3).

Have I come anywhere near an accurate assessment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m trying to figure out which is which as well, as I&#8217;m currently writing a definition essay for my college english class with the purpose of defining &#8220;nerd.&#8221; From everything I&#8217;ve read, my own opinion has slowly strengthened in the direction of a nerd being a D&amp;D buff, totally into video games, excelling at math and science, taking notes, dressing slightly offish (out of social complacency, the lack of NEEDING to fit in). What I&#8217;ve formulated from what I&#8217;ve read about geeks is that they put forth an effort to socially fit in, and this effort drives them to find a social niche for themselves, which is usually becoming a technical handiman. They practically thrive on being able to fix things for people, including (but not limited to) iPods, PCs, cell phones, etc. Although a geek doesn&#8217;t naturally fit in socially, they are attention hungry; nerds&#8230; not so much. Another thing about geeks, they somehow manage to find ways to be stylish without looking normal (nerds don&#8217;t look normal, but at the same time don&#8217;t have anything close to an edge on style, having parted their hair in the same spot since age 3).</p>
<p>Have I come anywhere near an accurate assessment?</p>
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		<title>Comment on There’s Nothing Wrong With Pretending to Rock by Learn the Guitar - Find Best Approach to Your Learning Style | ELECTRIC GUITAR</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/12/theres-nothing-wrong-with-pretending-to-rock/comment-page-1#comment-2205</link>
		<dc:creator>Learn the Guitar - Find Best Approach to Your Learning Style | ELECTRIC GUITAR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 15:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/12/theres-nothing-wrong-with-pretending-to-rock#comment-2205</guid>
		<description>[...] There’s Nothing Wrong With Pretending to Rock - Something I find ceaselessly fascinating and baffling is the way that video games get criticized no matter what their content. If a game features violent activity that we could never (and, hopefully, would never) enact in real life, … [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There’s Nothing Wrong With Pretending to Rock &#8211; Something I find ceaselessly fascinating and baffling is the way that video games get criticized no matter what their content. If a game features violent activity that we could never (and, hopefully, would never) enact in real life, &#8230; [...]</p>
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