Grace Roots

No! :) Discipline is not punishment. The word &qu...

2013-06-12T22:17:29.148-05:00

No! :) Discipline is not punishment. The word "discipline," much like the word "disciple," is a word that is rooted in "teaching."

"But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him..."
(Isaiah 53:5)

Christ took everything upon Himself. God is not out to punish us, but rather to build us up. Our sins have been taken away, so there's nothing left to punish! God has forgiven us and removed our sins from us as far as the east is from the west.

So when we do things that aren't "expedient" or "helpful," or that don't "edify" (1 Cor 6:12, 10:23), God's not out to punish us, but rather to teach us - to build us up and to help us walk in ways that are expedient, helpful and edifying. It's not punishment that lead to that, but it's loving discipline --- teaching and guidance --- from our Heavenly Father who loves us so dearly.

you say that God " lovingly teaches and disci...

2013-06-12T09:50:03.878-05:00

you say that God " lovingly teaches and disciplines us". i see "discipline" as punishment. don't you?

Howard, indeed it is good to look at 1 Cor 13 thro...

2013-06-04T10:53:37.257-05:00

Howard, indeed it is good to look at 1 Cor 13 through a different lens. God is love, and all of those things in 1 Cor 13 represent God, and are indeed fulfilled in us through the Holy Spirit.

Gary, yeah, it's such a shame to see trivial matters become such large matters that divide people in such huge ways. So many of those things are simply not worth the division that comes, just because, really, people feel the need to be "right." So many times we just need to let go.

On larger issues, such as universalism (to me, it is a large issue), I personally think it's worth discussing and debating, and even being "divided" over the issue (doctrinally speaking), but at the same time I don't believe that that means anyone needs to resort to name-calling and accusations.

The thought process for this particular post came about because I've seen people call a certain belief of mine "blasphemous," and it's something that they themselves used to teach. I 'get' that they've changed their beliefs about things, but they also imply that when other people don't "move forward" in the same ways that they have, then those people are closed-minded and unwilling to learn and grow. That's absolutely not the case. I am learning and growing... exponentially at times... but just not in the way that they think I should.

"Growing together doesn't mean agreeing o...

2013-06-03T10:17:07.274-05:00

"Growing together doesn't mean agreeing on everything"

I disagree!

J/K :)

I have seen diagreements over trival matters of doctrine get rather heated. When people have disagreements over things that one or the other thinks isn't even open to debate it can get ugly. It's a shame really. Because each us is on our own journey. Joe Blow may decide he is drawn to walk down the path of universalism. His path may merge back with your path or it may not. I think it is a mistake to count this brother as being lost. We should love him just the same and not turn our back on him...even if he refuses to climb back in our box.

100% AGREE, 1 cOR 13:4-13,Taught that we can't...

2013-05-30T05:43:43.445-05:00

100% AGREE, 1 cOR 13:4-13,Taught that we can't do 1 cor 13:4-13, using that we are of the flesh in unredeemed bodies, so we still sin.

My response tiday is yes as of flesh that is truth, so recieve the born again life this is where God's type of Love is recieved ans we don't perform it God does through via the Holy Ghost.
Taking a differant look at 1 cor 13:4-13 and all else passes away except God and God is Love and we are by God made aright with God by Christ. My two cents that fills all Law.

It's no yoke! But it would be a bad yoke if it...

2013-04-29T22:38:04.279-05:00

It's no yoke! But it would be a bad yoke if it was a yoke! I couldn't bear a bad yoke joke! :D

Is that some kind of a yoke?? Sorry; couldn't...

2013-04-27T15:41:58.842-05:00

Is that some kind of a yoke??

Sorry; couldn't resist. Just another bad yoke joke.

I've always hated a bad yoke. :)

Yes indeed, thank you Lord!

2013-04-19T09:23:52.439-05:00

Yes indeed, thank you Lord!

Amen and amen. Thank You, Lord Jesus, for grace g...

2013-04-19T00:59:57.554-05:00

Amen and amen. Thank You, Lord Jesus, for grace greater than all my sin.

Gary, yep I think it's a new and different kin...

2013-04-12T10:59:05.769-05:00

Gary, yep I think it's a new and different kind of "law" that we are alive to now. The legal commandments are not alive and can't give life, and can't cause a person to love, but the "law of love" that is alive in us is indeed what flows out. It's different than a legal commandment, in a similar (but not exact) way in which the "law of gravity" isn't a legal commandment, but rather is simply a force that is naturally manifested.

I've written about the "legal" commandments several times, such as a series I did called That 'Love Thy Neighbor' Thing...

In short, I pointed out how the "top two" commandments - "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength" (Deut 6:5) and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Lev 19:18) - are impossible to follow, and are the most legalistic statements in the Bible. :)

But Jesus gave a new command that wasn't based upon law, but was based upon His own love for His disciples. "As I have loved you, so you love one another." I think John remembered this as he wrote years later, "In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another." 1 John 4:10-11

So yeah, all that to say that I don't believe it's legal commandments that are written on our hearts, but rather this new "law of love."

Christ spoke of "new commandments", whic...

2013-04-12T09:58:47.397-05:00

Christ spoke of "new commandments", which are, distilled down, "love God and love others". Do you think those are living laws in that they are brought about by being "alive to God in Christ"? The bible spoke of laws that are written on our hearts, maybe the two I mentioned are those. So, while we are dead to the OT law aren't we alive to a different law, love itself? Not disagreeing with you, just pondering.

Thanks much, Terry!

2013-04-01T12:34:00.418-05:00

Thanks much, Terry!

Joel, Really well put! Thanks. Terry

2013-04-01T12:10:37.565-05:00

Joel,

Really well put! Thanks.

Terry

Yuo know when one is so used to confessing, after ...

2013-03-07T17:40:36.077-06:00

Yuo know when one is so used to confessing, after recieving Jesus and are taught to keep good with God that they need to be prayed up if they sin, Ones focus gets put on whether they sin or not for teuly that one has been convicteg. Now I know the Holy Spirit convicts one of sin so that they see thier need for christ. And the world keeps the conviction going on and on as if the Holy Sirit is convicting over and over again and again. But The Holy Ghoist does not do this. It is not the purpose of the Holy Ghost to not free the people, and keep one under trying to quit sin, this is the worlds deception through and from the evil force of this clear and present world danger. And after awhile of repenting over and over again we are like brain washed and never leave trying to obey, no wonder people can't stop sin they say they trust god and go out and say watch my smoke you all. We by listenig to a lie are trapped into working for our salvation and thinking we are walking by Faith, when we are not.
the only one that can stopsin period is God and that is when you are 100% in trust of God as Moses was backed int the REd Sea and the Egyptians coming at them no way out. So did Moses doubt God at all no and the sea parted
So when we here That God took all sin away at the cross why are we not believing it and asking for further forgiveness as a good will worship when it is finished done no more to be executed from God to anyone one. Then there are those that say great he took it all and take advantage of this undeserved grace lavished on us as the Corinthians had done. It can be very hard to get this truth across and so I need God to take the reins ne just be the vessel that God uses and therefore the word wil get across and set others free as well
in Love homwardbound

Amen... Praise God!

2013-03-04T10:54:19.561-06:00

Amen... Praise God!

Love it! His blood is so sufficient. Praise God ...

2013-03-03T22:56:10.518-06:00

Love it! His blood is so sufficient. Praise God for his grace.

Hildafunk, There is only one Person who ever appe...

2013-03-02T20:36:18.197-06:00

Hildafunk,

There is only one Person who ever appeased God, and it's not you or me. :) It's nothing that you or I ever did, but only the finished work of Jesus.

"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation (appeasement) by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Rom 3:23-26

If you have faith in Jesus, you've been redeemed, justified and made righteous... freely by His grace. He's not punishing you.

If God were punishing you for your sins, then the Blood of Jesus was not enough for Him.

If God needed you to do something to appease Him, then the Blood of Jesus was not the propitiation for our sins.

I only see God as a taskmaster right now. I asked ...

2013-03-02T19:43:37.190-06:00

I only see God as a taskmaster right now. I asked him for mercy and all I got was more pain amd misery and caused a real nice girl to have mental breakdown. I can only only assume am being punished for my sin. God could have told me remarriage is adultery before i got involved with this girl. I can only assume he waited to reveal it to me after i was almost engaged because i have some sin I struggle with or something. I dont know what to do to appease Him.

In Christ, in this post-cross resurrected life, we...

2013-03-02T16:30:57.339-06:00

In Christ, in this post-cross resurrected life, we are not under the law and we have no relationship to it. In addition to what Paul said in Col 2:13-14, he also said that we died to the law. We had to die to the law in order to be alive to God.

"For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." (Gal 2:19-20).

I did mention some of this in Part 3 of this video series, as I talked about Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:12 and Hebrews 7. In my written series, this can be found in Part 7.

Thank you for taking the time to listen, Prince Gy...

2013-03-02T16:30:23.739-06:00

Thank you for taking the time to listen, Prince Gyimah, and for your comments here. I'll try to address the things you've said here.

Indeed, we are a royal priesthood, spiritually speaking. That is the reality of who we are. It's our true identity in Christ. The very core of who we are, is that we are a spirit that is joined together with God (1 Cor 6:17), and together our true identity is that of a royal priesthood. We offer ourselves as living sacrifices, not to try to get anything from God, but because we already belong fully to Him. This, of course, doesn't mean that there is any certain percentage or amount of our income that we are to give to the church or to anyone in particular, but rather that since we are joined together with Him, whatever we do or give, and however we serve Him and others, is done from the fullness of who we are in Him.

As to Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42, here are my thoughts. Jesus was not teaching a "Christian" teaching. Rather, the scriptures tell us that He came first to Israel. "God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law" (Gal 4:4-5). This is referring to Israel. Jesus first had a "law" ministry to the Jews. As we find out later in Paul's epistles, the purpose of the law was "the ministry of death" and "the ministry of condemnation" (2 Cor 3:7-9), and Paul also reveals that "whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God" (Rom 3:19).

These revelations from Paul are important as we look at Matt 23:23 and Luke 11:24, because in these passages (and many others), we find Jesus ministering the true purpose of the law to Israel. Again, the law was the ministry of death and condemnation, and its purpose was to stop mouths and make the world guilty before God.

Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees, who thought that they were so wonderful at keeping the law, that they really fell very far short. If they were to truly be law-keepers, then they should not only tithe of mint, anise and cumin (which were easily seen by others), but they should also keep the "weightier matters of the law," which they were not doing.

Jesus wasn't teaching Christians to keep the law. Rather, He was showing self-righteous people that their law-keeping was not nearly as good as they thought it was.

The purpose then, as Paul also pointed out, was to use the law as a tutor to lead them to Himself. Once faith has come, they would no longer be under a tutor. (Gal 3:24-25). But as long as they thought so highly of their law-keeping efforts, they hadn't come to faith and were still under the law of condemnation and death.

As you say, Jesus Himself didn't come to abolish the law. Rather, He came to fulfill it. And He did what He came for. He fulfilled it. The law is now fulfilled. No man could ever do that, but Jesus did it. And then having fulfilled it, He bled and died on a Cross, and rose again. With all of this accomplished, the following came true:

"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." (Col 2:13-14)

I am fascinated in your teachings. It is meaningfu...

2013-03-02T01:17:18.349-06:00

I am fascinated in your teachings. It is meaningful and does make sense. I hope you get the time to read my reactions as I did in listening to all the 4 series.
What I keep hearing from people who speaks against tithing is that it is an old covenant. Yes, it is. And rightly so someone or I could argue on this premise that all the promises we hold on to in the old testament are equally not for us because we are under a new dispensation. What you have done in my humble opinion is grossly selective as you claim some churches do, in that your argument from the new testament is incomplete without making references to what Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 Luke 11:42.
Jesus did not ask the people to neglect giving a tenth or told the people not to follow this practice of the Pharisees as he emphatically told the people not to pray like they do. Actually he asked them to continue. My point is, Jesus our faith and Grace did not forbid paying a tenth. in fact the Christ did not come to abolish anything in the old testament or covenant.
When you say WE HAVE ALL BECOME ROYAL PRIESTHOODS, yes I agree but in the spirit. I am happy I can go right to him offer my self as a living sacrifice without anyone doing on my behalf.

MANUELA! Great to hear from you! As you can see, ...

2013-01-17T23:17:34.049-06:00

MANUELA! Great to hear from you!

As you can see, I haven't been blogging much lately either. I spend a little bit of time connecting with others on Facebook, but I've kind of lost touch with various people that I used to connect with a lot through blogging. Anyway, glad to hear you're doing well. I'm going to head on over and check out your blog to see the poem.

Hi Joel, enjoyed this. Thanks. Spent some time on ...

2013-01-17T11:57:30.650-06:00

Hi Joel, enjoyed this. Thanks.
Spent some time on your blog and grace roots last night and found much encouragement and needed reminders. I downloaded you grace PDF chart too...
Sounds like you are doing well. Keep up the good message ( good news!): )
love, Manuela
ps- oh and I wrote a poem called "oh grace" that I should post soon... I have been homeschooling Maggie so I haven't been blogging much in the last year, but want to...

Ithink in Ecclesiastes there somewhere it states c...

2013-01-16T14:05:27.968-06:00

Ithink in Ecclesiastes there somewhere it states cry at a birth and rejoice at a death

Yes, Welcome to your new location... very fitting ...

2013-01-16T11:39:51.812-06:00

Yes, Welcome to your new location... very fitting words when we pass from life to Life. :)