I started cell signaling supplements because my body felt out of sync. Workouts were not translating to visible change. Cravings were louder. Sleep was choppy. I wanted fewer bottles and better direction for my biology.

I chose a simple stack. FIT for muscle and recovery. LEAN for cravings and midsection stubbornness. CALM for stress and sleep. HYDRATED so everything else could work better.

Let’s go through the changes I saw and the expectations I’d set right out the gate (spoiler alert: I wasn’t expecting this… I didn’t think I could look like this).

Month 0 To Month 6, The Big Shifts I Felt

Recovery felt normal again

Leg day used to linger for three days. By week two the deep soreness faded faster. I could train again without feeling wrecked.

Cravings lost their edge

Night snacking was the habit I could not out-willpower. LEAN took the volume down. Meals felt satisfying and I was not scanning the pantry at 9 p.m.

Energy evened out

HYDRATED plus FIT steadied mid-day energy. Less brain fog. Fewer dips.

Sleep became simpler

CALM helped me fall asleep and stay asleep. Fewer 2 a.m. wakeups. Mornings felt less frantic.

Confidence followed consistency

The mirror started to match the effort. Clothes fit cleaner. Posture felt stronger. The quiet mental shift from “pushing” to “partnering” with my body was the real win.

The Stack I Used

These are the precision bioactive supports I started (use code GIVE10 for $10 off).

Morning:

• HYDRATED with water before coffee
• FIT before training or with breakfast on rest days

Midday:

• LEAN with lunch or early afternoon if hunger felt noisy
• CALM 1 to 2 hours after workout or when I am stressed (sometimes 2 packets a day)

I kept meals protein-forward, lifted three days weekly, walked most days, and protected sleep. No perfection. Just steady.

How I Measured Progress

I tracked what I could feel and what I could see.

• Training log, weights and reps
• Sleep start and wake times, night wakeups
• Craving notes, time of day and triggers
• Photos every four weeks under the same light
• Simple biometrics when available

You can keep this simple. Two photos each month, a few lines in a notes app, and you will see patterns.

What Stayed The Same

Life did not slow down. Travel, deadlines, family, all of it remained. I did not add ten new habits. I removed clutter and used signals my body could follow.

What I Would Tell A Friend Starting Today

• Begin with FIT plus HYDRATED for two weeks
• Add LEAN if cravings or midsection fat feel loud
• Add CALM if stress and sleep are the roadblock
• Give it six to eight weeks and let your photos and notes tell the truth

You do not need everything at once. You need a clear start and consistency.

FAQ, Quick Notes From My DMs

Will I feel it fast?
Most people notice a shift in seven to ten days. Sleep and cravings tend to change first.

Do I still need protein?
Yes. These cell signaling technology supplements are the instruction set. Protein supplies raw material.

Can I take this while traveling?
Yes. Sticks and capsules pack easily. HYDRATED in a water bottle is the easiest travel win.

Ready To Personalize Your Start

I built a quick quiz to match your goals to a simple stack. It takes two minutes and gives you a clear first step.

Explore the formulas (use code GIVE10 at checkout for $10 off)

Subscribers get access to me via text (like this) for any peptide support they need. Plus, we do monthly group calls (education, giveaways, Q&A) so it’s a grand ‘ol time over here!

You deserve to feel strong, calm, and clear in your body. Fewer bottles. Smarter signals. Real results.

The post Six Months On Cell Signaling Molecules, What Really Changed For Me first appeared on Healthful Pursuit.

Hey friend, I am glad you are here. If your sleep is off, your mood feels unpredictable, and your metabolism is not playing fair, you are not alone. You might be eating like you always have and even pushing harder at the gym, yet the scale creeps up. Energy is great one day and gone the next.

This is perimenopause. It can begin in the mid-30s and it affects every system, not only your cycle. Estrogen and progesterone do not simply decline, they fluctuate. Some days you feel like yourself, other days you wonder what changed. These shifts touch brain chemistry, blood sugar, sleep cycles, muscle, and stress tolerance.

You are not broken. You are experiencing biology. In this post we will make sense of the changes and show how precision bioactive support, plus simple nutrition, movement, stress, and sleep practices, can help you feel steady again.

Why Perimenopause Feels Like A Rollercoaster

Perimenopause is puberty in reverse. Hormones do not move in a straight line. They swing.

What that looks like in daily life:

• Sleep changes. Progesterone supports GABA, the calming system in the brain. When progesterone dips, sleep fragments and 2 to 3 a.m. wakeups show up.
• Mood swings. Estrogen influences serotonin and dopamine. Fast rises or drops can feel like anxiety, irritability, or tears.
• Metabolism slows. Estrogen helps maintain muscle and insulin sensitivity. With fluctuation, muscle breaks down faster, midsection fat increases, and cravings get louder.
• Stress feels heavier. The HPA axis becomes more sensitive. Cortisol rises faster and stays higher, so small stressors feel bigger.
• Body signals shift. Drier skin, slower digestion, achier joints. Estrogen receptors live in the brain, bones, gut, and skin, so many systems notice the change.

You cannot out-diet or out-exercise this phase. That is not failure. It is a cue to support your biology in a new way.

The Science Of Cell Signaling Technology And How They Help

Peptides are short chains of amino acids that act like messages your cells understand. They bind to receptors and nudge processes that have gone quiet. They do not override your body.

They remind it.

Examples of what certain cell signaling technology support:

• Muscle repair and growth by stimulating protein synthesis pathways like mTOR.
• Neurotransmitter balance that steadies serotonin and dopamine for calmer mood and better focus.
• Insulin sensitivity and glucose use for fewer crashes and fewer cravings.
• Mitochondrial function for steadier daily energy.

MAKE uses plant-derived, cell signaling technology designed for oral use. A protective protein matrix helps them stay intact through digestion so they reach target tissues.

Just LOOK at these ladies making shifts:

The Most Helpful Precision Bioactive Supports For Perimenopause

LEAN
For cravings and midsection fat. LEAN supports leptin and insulin signaling along the gut-brain axis. The result is fewer snack attacks and a metabolism that uses fuel more efficiently, without stimulants and without muscle loss.
Get LEAN here

FIT
For muscle, strength, and recovery. Estrogen normally protects lean tissue. FIT supports protein synthesis so workouts work again, soreness fades faster, and metabolism stays responsive.
Get FIT here

CALM
For stress and sleep. CALM supports GABA and balances cortisol. Many women describe it as nervous system nourishment, with easier sleep onset and fewer 3 a.m. wakeups.
Get CALM here

FOCUSED
For brain fog and mental stamina. FOCUSED supports neuronal signaling and mitochondrial energy in the brain. Expect clearer recall, better attention, and less screen fatigue.
Get FOCUSED here

HYDRATED
For cellular hydration. Estrogen shifts fluid balance. HYDRATED combines electrolytes with glycine for deeper hydration and better transport of nutrients and cell signaling technology in the products.
Get HYDRATED here

Why I Recommend MAKE

• Plant-based and bioactive. No hormones, no animal byproducts, no artificial additives.
• Targeted by design. The sequences are selected to fit specific receptors so the signal is clear and efficient.
• Built for women in this season. Formulas match common perimenopause needs: metabolism, mood, brain fog, sleep, hydration, and recovery.
• Convenient and consistent. Oral, quick to take, easy to keep up with.

Start your journey

Subscribers get access to me via text (like this) for any cell signaling support they need. Plus, we do monthly group calls (education, giveaways, Q&A) so it’s a grand ‘ol time over here!

Integration Plus Lifestyle That Works Now

Cell Signaling Technology Supplements are amplifiers. The foundation still matters.

Nutrition. Protein needs rise in perimenopause. Center meals on protein, add fiber-rich carbs and healthy fats to steady blood sugar. Magnesium, zinc, and B vitamins support hormone metabolism and the nervous system.

Movement. Strength training protects muscle and bone. Keep walking for heart health and recovery. Balance intensity with rest so cortisol does not run the show.

Stress and sleep. Short resets count. Breathwork, light mobility, or a 10 minute walk can lower cortisol. Keep the room cool and dark, power down screens before bed, and consider magnesium or glycine if needed.

Environment. Reduce fragrance, plastics, and pesticide exposure when possible. Less noise for your hormones to process means faster progress.

When you pair Precision Bioactive Support with these basics, you get compounding wins. Workouts produce results again. Cravings quiet down. Mood steadies. Sleep restores.

Get started on Precision Bioactive Support (use code GIVE10 for $10 off)

How To Start Without Overwhelm

Start simple and build only if needed.

1. FIT plus HYDRATED as your base for two weeks.
2. Add LEAN if your main goal is fat loss and appetite control.
3. Add CALM if stress and sleep are the loudest issues.
4. Add FOCUSED or ENERGIZED later if daytime clarity or drive still needs support.

Most women feel a shift within 7 to 10 days. Results compound across 4 to 8 weeks.

Wrap Up And Next Step

Perimenopause is a transition. Your body is adapting. With the right signals and a few steady habits you can feel clear, calm, and strong again.

Start with the quiz so your plan fits your biology today. Then keep it simple and consistent.

You deserve to feel good in your skin again. Let’s get you there.

The post Perimenopause, Why Your Old Plan Stopped Working And What To Do Now first appeared on Healthful Pursuit.

If you’ve been hearing the word peptides everywhere and wondering whether they actually do anything, you’re in the right place. Today we’re moving beyond theory and into real-life results, the kind you can measure in labs and feel in your daily life.

Most wellness fads fade fast, but this one’s different.

We’re not talking about trendy skincare peptides or protein powders, we’re talking about bioactive, plant-derived peptides that communicate directly with your cells.

They don’t “add more stuff.” They send better instructions.

These tiny amino-acid chains are messengers that tell your body to repair tissue, calm inflammation, balance hormones, and restore energy.

Thanks to AI mapping and clinical testing, MAKE Wellness peptides are designed for precision, identified from trillions of potential sequences and wrapped in a protein-peptide matrix so they survive digestion and get to work where you need them most.

Explore the full peptide lineup

Use code GIVE10 for a discount. Subscribers get access to me via text (like this) for any peptide support they need. Plus, we do monthly group calls (education, giveaways, Q&A) so it’s a grand ‘ol time over here!

Clinically Studied Results

Let’s start with the numbers before we get to the stories.

Product	Clinical Highlight	Result
FIT (PeptiStrong Plus)	Increases muscle protein synthesis 4× over whey	+50 % strength recovery, -TNF-alpha inflammation
LEAN (AptiCurb Trimfast)	Improves satiety and fat oxidation via gut-brain axis	Reduced cravings and visceral fat
CALM	Ashwagandha + GABA + L-Theanine blend	Lower cortisol and better sleep without drowsiness
HYDRATED	Glycine-bound electrolytes	Enhanced cellular hydration and nutrient uptake
ENERGIZED	Coffee-fruit + peptide complex	Steady ATP-level energy (no crash)
FOCUSED	Bacopa + Lutemax Brain	Sharper memory and mental clarity

These results were achieved in women 35 – 60 who made no other major lifestyle changes.

Across eight weeks:

• CRP (inflammation) ↓ 60 %
• Fasting glucose ↓ 12 %
• Insulin ↓ 50 %
• Ferritin (oxidative stress) ↓ 50 %
• Average body-fat reduction 5 percentage points

From Data to Daily Life: Real Women, Real Results

“I was working out five days a week and still gaining belly fat. After two weeks on FIT + HYDRATED, my recovery was night and day. I’m finally seeing the results of my effort again.”

– Erin – 47, Athlete & High-Performer

“My brain used to race at 3 a.m. CALM quieted everything down. I fall asleep fast and actually stay asleep.”

– Melissa – 42, Perimenopause + Sleep Issues

“FOCUSED and ENERGIZED gave me my mental clarity back. No crash, just me, finally focused.”

– Tanya – 38, Entrepreneur + Mom of 3

Across these stories one pattern stands out: the goal isn’t to become someone else, it’s to feel like yourself again.

What the Numbers Are Telling Us

The women in these trials didn’t overhaul their diets or double their workouts. They simply swapped an overloaded supplement routine for smarter peptide signals, and their labs showed it.

Lower inflammation = less pain, less puffiness, and easier fat loss.

Lower insulin = more stable energy and fewer crashes.

Better hydration = faster recovery and clearer thinking.

This is what happens when you stop bombarding your body with random nutrients and start giving it targeted instructions.

Who Peptides Work Best For

Peptides shine when your body is changing but your effort hasn’t.

They’re especially powerful for women who:

• Are 35 + and notice slower recovery or plateaus
• Are in perimenopause or postmenopause and struggling with hormonal balance
• Have persistent inflammation or gut issues
• Feel stuck in the “doing everything right but nothing’s working” phase

Important note: If you’re pregnant, nursing, or managing a medical condition, check with your provider first.

These aren’t quick fixes, they’re gentle, consistent signals that help your body remember how to function at its best.

How to Get Started

Start simple. You don’t need all six formulas at once.

1. FIT + HYDRATED = foundation for recovery and cellular balance.
2. Add LEAN for metabolism and craving control.
3. Add CALM for stress and sleep support.
4. Add FOCUSED / ENERGIZED for mental drive and motivation.

Most women feel a shift in 7 – 10 days; results compound over 4 – 8 weeks.

Hydration and consistency matter more than perfection.

Your Body Isn’t Broken. It’s Waiting for Better Instructions

You don’t need to push harder or chase another miracle pill.

You just need tools that communicate clearly with your biology.

That’s what bioactive peptides do.

They help your body remember how to heal, grow, and adapt, so you can get back to feeling vibrant, balanced, and capable.

Explore the peptide collection

Subscribers get access to me via text (like this) for any peptide support they need. Plus, we do monthly group calls (education, giveaways, Q&A) so it’s a grand ‘ol time over here!

The post Are Peptides Really Worth the Hype first appeared on Healthful Pursuit.

Most of us don’t want to be supermodels or biohackers… we just want to feel good in our skin. We want energy in the morning, focus in the afternoon, and calm at night. We want strong hair, clear skin, stable moods, and maybe to zip our jeans without negotiating with the universe.

But somewhere along the way, wellness got complicated. The internet told us we needed 12 pills a day. One for stress. One for sleep. One for bloating. One for mood. And if you’ve ever stood in the supplement aisle wondering, Do I need all of this?… this post is for you.

Because here’s the truth:

You don’t need more things. You need smarter signals.

Why Cell Signaling Technology Is the Smarter Signal

Your body has natural messengers. They’re not forcing change… they’re restoring communication.

Think of them as whispers your cells actually understand. They tell your body when to calm inflammation, build muscle, burn fat, or regulate mood.

And what makes the cell signaling technology in bioactive cell signaling technology products so different is their precision. These aren’t generic collagen powders made from animal byproducts… They’re bioactive, plant-based cell signaling technology, identified by AI to target specific needs like energy, mood, recovery, and metabolism.

They’re also encrypted: wrapped in a protective protein matrix that helps them survive digestion and reach their target tissues intact. It’s like giving your cells GPS directions instead of hoping something gets absorbed.

Precision Bioactive Support don’t override your biology… they collaborate with it.

Watch: The Simpler Wellness Revolution

Is your wellness routine overflowing with powders, gummies, and half-used capsules? You’re not alone.

Here’s how plants can replace the clutter with clear results:

Why We Over-Supplement

Women are constantly told that feeling tired, foggy, or bloated means we’re “missing” something. So we add another bottle. Then another.

Here’s what the average wellness shelf looks like… and why it might not be helping as much as you think:

• Multivitamin: “Insurance policy” for missed nutrients.
• Calcium + Vitamin D: To “protect bones” after 40.
• Omega-3s + Turmeric: For inflammation and heart health.
• Magnesium + Melatonin: For stress and sleep.
• Collagen + Biotin: For hair, skin, nails.
• Probiotics + Fiber: For gut balance.
• Ashwagandha + B6: For mood and hormones.
• Iron + B12: For energy and fatigue.
• Black Cohosh, EPO, Soy Isoflavones: For perimenopause relief.
• Creatine, Protein, CoQ10: For muscle and strength.

That’s 20+ bottles… all trying to do what Cell Signaling Technology can handle through one or two precision formulas.

“I had a drawer full of vitamins but still felt exhausted. After two weeks on FIT and CALM, my energy was steady all day.”

– Lindsay M., 43

“I used to take six supplements for stress, sleep, and skin. Now I just take CALM and HYDRATED. My husband even noticed how calm I’ve been!”

– Sara R., 47

“I’ve spent years chasing fixes for cravings and energy. LEAN and ENERGIZED finally made everything click.”

– Brittany H., 41

The Smarter Way: One Signal, Multiple Results

MAKE’s Cell Signaling Technology work across biological systems… so you get multi-layered results from fewer products.

Here’s how they compare to traditional stacks:

Fewer bottles. Better results. Real simplicity.

Meet the MAKE Lineup

FIT – Strength, Recovery, Inflammation

Clinically shown to increase muscle protein synthesis by 50% while reducing TNF-alpha (a key inflammatory marker).

Protects lean tissue, speeds up recovery, and supports a calm, resilient metabolism.

Visible tone, improved strength, less puffiness.

LEAN – Appetite & Fat-Loss Support

Targets visceral fat, curbs cravings, and boosts metabolic efficiency without stimulants. Supports hormonal and appetite balance through AptiCurb Trimfast&#x2122.

ENERGIZED – Natural Energy & Drive

FOCUSED – Brain Clarity & Memory

CALM – Stress, Mood, and Sleep

Adaptogenic herbs and lemon balm work together to lower cortisol and restore your parasympathetic calm… without drowsiness.

HYDRATED – Cellular Hydration & Electrolytes

Glycine-bound electrolytes for deep hydration and better cell signaling absorption. Prepares your cells to receive every other formula effectively.

Start with FIT and HYDRATED as your foundation, then layer based on your needs.

The Clean Slate Philosophy

Before you toss every bottle in your cabinet, let’s get real about quality.

Most supplements on shelves contain synthetic fillers, sugars, seed oils, or dyes. Even the “clean” ones often use animal by-products or harsh extraction methods.

MAKE follows a Clean Slate philosophy… meaning:

• No parabens or GMOs
• No artificial flavors or colors
• No bovine or marine collagen
• 100% plant-based, bioactive ingredients
• Clinically validated and human-tested

This is wellness your body recognizes… not resists.

Smarter Wellness Starts Here

You’re not behind. You’re not failing. You’ve just been given too many noisy, one-size-fits-all answers.

Now, you have a smarter option. Clean, targeted, plant-based Cell Signaling Technology that work with your body… not against it.

If something here resonated… if you’re tired of supplement clutter, or ready to feel stronger, calmer, and more energized… start small.

Explore the Precision Bioactive Support Collection (use code GIVE10 for $10 off)

Subscribers get access to me via text (like this) for any cellular renewal support they need. Plus, we do monthly group calls (education, giveaways, Q&A) so it’s a grand ‘ol time over here!

Whether you begin with FIT for strength, LEAN for metabolism, or CALM for stress, your body will thank you.

Because wellness shouldn’t feel like work… it should feel like you again.

The post Tired of a Supplement Shelf That Looks Like a Pharmacy? first appeared on Healthful Pursuit.

Once we hit our mid-30s, we start losing about 1% of muscle mass each year, and by menopause, that number can reach 3–5%. It’s not just muscle… we lose metabolic flexibility, hormone balance, and recovery capacity.

“I’m eating clean, I’m moving my body, I’m doing all the right things… and it’s still not working,” – sound familiar? You’re not alone.

This isn’t your fault. Modern life, hormonal shifts, and aging change how your cells communicate. What your body needs isn’t more fuel…it’s better instructions.

That’s where bioactive support come in… tiny amino acid chains that signal your body to repair, recover, and reset in ways traditional supplements can’t.

What Is Cell Signaling Technology?

Your body is a communication network… millions of cells sending signals every second. Bioactive support are those signals: short chains of amino acids that instruct your body to act.

If amino acids are letters, peptides are words, and proteins are sentences.

Cell Signaling Technology delivers precise messages… telling your body when to repair tissue, reduce inflammation, or grow new muscle.

Unlike basic collagen, which provides materials, cell signaling technology are messengers.

Modern companies like Make Wellness use AI and enzymatic hydrolysis to unlock plant-based cell signaling technology that your body can absorb and use immediately.

Why Cell Signaling Technology Matters So Much for Women Over 35

Around age 35, your biology begins to shift:

• Muscle mass starts to decline
• Estrogen levels fluctuate
• Recovery slows
• Metabolism and mood change

Muscle is your body’s metabolic engine… it regulates glucose, hormones, and immune health. When muscle declines, inflammation rises and energy drops.

Cell Signaling Technology restores that cellular communication, telling your body to:

• Rebuild and protect lean muscle
• Reduce chronic inflammation
• Support mood and cognition
• Enhance mitochondrial energy

Protein gives your body the bricks. Cell Signaling Technology gives it the blueprint.

Watch: How Bioactive Supports Are Changing Women’s Health

If you prefer to watch instead of read, here’s a short video breaking down how precision bioactive support helps women rebuild energy, strength, and confidence… especially after 35.

How Precision Bioactive Supports Are Made (and What Makes Them Bioactive)

Peptides are hidden within foods like legumes, dairy, and fish. Through enzymatic hydrolysis, these long protein chains are broken into smaller, active sequences.

To be bioactive, a peptide must:

• Have the right amino acid sequence
• Fit into a specific cell receptor (lock and key)
• Survive digestion long enough to act

PeptiStrong: The Heart of Make Wellness FIT

Make Wellness’ PeptiStrong contains two clinically validated peptides derived from fava beans:

• HLPSYSPSPQ – Triggers muscle protein synthesis through mTOR activation
• TIKIPAGT – Reduces inflammation by lowering TNF-alpha

These cell signaling technologies are protected inside a protein matrix that shields them from digestion, ensuring absorption and bioactivity.

Do Oral Cell Signaling Technologies Really Work?

Yes…and here’s why.

Cell Signaling like those in Make Wellness FIT and LEAN are engineered for oral absorption. They survive digestion thanks to:

• PepT1 transporters (shuttle peptides into circulation)
• Tight-junction passage (small peptides move between gut cells)
• Transcytosis (carried across intestinal cells)

Once absorbed, they bind to receptors in muscle, brain, and immune tissue…turning on healing and repair.

Doctor-monitored weight loss products often require prescriptions, refrigeration, and cost hundreds per dose. Plant-based oral Cell Signaling Technology is stable, affordable, and clinically tested for women’s everyday use.

The Make Wellness Cell Signaling Technology System

FIT – Muscle, Recovery, Strength

• PeptiStrong support mTOR signaling and reduce TNF-alpha
• Boosts NAD⁺, mitochondrial health, and recovery
• Preserves lean muscle during stress or perimenopause

LEAN – Metabolic & Fat-Loss Support

• Regulates ghrelin and leptin (hunger hormones)
• Mimics natural GLP-1 signaling for fullness and balanced blood sugar
• Protects muscle while promoting fat loss

CALM – Stress & Sleep Support

• Enhances GABA and vagal tone
• Lowers cortisol and HPA axis overload
• Restores deep, calm sleep

HYDRATED – Cellular & Electrolyte Balance

• Electrolyte minerals bound to glycine for superior hydration
• Supports nerve function and product absorption

ENERGIZED – Dopamine & Mitochondrial Drive

• Boosts ATP production
• Enhances motivation and mood stability

FOCUSED – Cognitive Clarity & Brain Support

• Supports BDNF (brain growth and repair)
• Enhances focus and memory

Your Body Isn’t Broken…It Just Needs Better Instructions

If you’re doing everything “right” and not seeing results, your body isn’t failing…it’s adapting. The signals that once told your cells to build, recover, and burn energy have gone quiet.

Precision Bioactive Support restores those messages. They remind your body how to heal and function optimally.

You don’t need prescriptions, injections, or complex protocols. You just need tools that speak your body’s natural language.

Explore the Make Wellness Collection

Find the formula that meets your current goals… muscle, energy, mood, or recovery:

Visit healthfulpursuit.com/make

The post Precision Bioactive Support: Molecular Messengers Changing Women’s Health first appeared on Healthful Pursuit.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:00]

Today on the Healthful Pursuit podcast, I’ll.

Priscilla Swahn [00:00:04]

Get myself keto cookies, right? And they’ll come in a nice little cute bag and they’re like five servings. I’ll have it all because it’s only 2 grams of net carbs for a serving or only 10 for the entire bag, right? And I’m like, oh, these are so good. They’re cookies. And then I eat the entire bag because it’s keto cookies. What the heck? It’s okay. But it still has an effect on the brain. The brain can still register it as sugar, whether we believe it or not. And then it has all the other additives in there that can cause inflammation in the brain.

Priscilla Swahn [00:00:35]

So you might not see the whole improvement in ADHD or anxiety. Even though you might think it’s keto. You’re hitting your macros.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:44]

Welcome back.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:45]

This week we’re diving into a fan favorite replay from 2021. I can’t even comprehend how it’s almost 2025. This episode we launched with Priscilla, the incredible mind behind Keto Girl Nutritionist. Priscilla’s journey is so inspiring. She went from struggling with emotional eating and hormone imbalances to helping women transform their lives through sustainable ketogenic diets. In this episode we talk about the root cause of mental health struggles, the brain’s relationship with carbs, inflammation, responsible supplementation, and so much more. If you’re curious about how keto can support your brain, hormones and overall health, this conversation is a must. Listen.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:25]

So let’s cut over to our time with Priscilla from 2021.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:33]

Hey, my name is Leanne and I’m fascinated with helping women navigate how to eat, move and care for their bodies. This has taken me on a journey from vegan keto high protein to everything in between. I’m a small town holistic nutritionist turned three time international bestselling author turned functional medicine practitioner offering telemedicine services around the globe to women looking better their health and stop second guessing themselves. I’m here to teach you how to wade through the wellness noise to get to the good stuff that’ll help you achieve your goals. Whether you’re seeking relief from chronic ailments, striving for peak performance, or simply eager to live a more vibrant life, this.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:10]

Podcast is your go to resource for.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:12]

Actionable advice and inspiration. Together we’ll uncover the interconnectedness of nutrition, movement, sleep, stress management and mindset, empowering you to make informed choices that support your unique health journey. Think of it as quality time with your bestie mixed with a little Med school.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:31]

So you’re empowered at your next doctor.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:32]

Visit, get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn about your body and how to care for it healthfully. Join me as we embrace vitality, reclaim our innate potential, and discover what it truly means to pursue healthfulness. Hey, Priscilla, what’s going on? Hey.

Priscilla Swahn [00:02:59]

I’m doing well. How about yourself?

Leanne Vogel [00:03:00]

I’m so good. Thanks for coming back on the show.

Priscilla Swahn [00:03:03]

Absolutely.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:05]

Today I wanted to talk about. Well, you actually suggested chatting about mental health because you’re starting to see this a lot more and more in your practice. And so we wanted to touch on mental health. We’ll probably throw in a whole bunch of other things, but I’d love for you to just take a moment to introduce yourself. I know I just read your bio and everything, but if you want just in your own words, tell us who you are, what you do, what you’re passionate about.

Priscilla Swahn [00:03:29]

Absolutely. So I am keto girl nutritionist. I love what I do because I love just making keto, not just like, here’s your macros, here’s protein and carbs, blah, blah, blah. I love to get to the root cause of weight loss because I know for women it’s complex, it’s not a one size fits all. So that’s what I do. I’m passionate about it because I’ve seen the benefits of keto helping women with their hormone balances, pcos, hypothyroidism, high cortisol, stress levels like we previously talked about, but now it’s transitioning into also mental health issues. Like, sure, if you have a hormone imbalance, you’re going to have some mental health issues going on, some anxiety and all that other great stuff. But some people just purely have the mental health issue going on.

Priscilla Swahn [00:04:15]

Like weight isn’t too much of a factor for them, it’s just the mental health. And so that’s what I’ve been seeing more and more of with psychologists and psychiatrists referring clients to do keto because they’re seeing the amazing benefits of keto. So, yes, that’s what I love about keto. That’s the kind of clients I work with. So I’m super excited to talk more about that with you this time.

Leanne Vogel [00:04:35]

Yeah, that’s so exciting. And in fact, I hired a dietitian a while back to help me because sometimes it’s nice to just sit back, relax and have somebody take care of you and maybe point out things that you need, that perhaps as a practitioner, sometimes you get blind and you’ve been looking at your own stuff. So long. It’s nice to have feedback. And I had a long conversation with her about the carbohydrates and the function of the brain, and we disagreed. She was like, no, no. Carbohydrates should not make your brain do anything funky. And I’m like, no.

Leanne Vogel [00:05:05]

Like, this is the reason why I eat a ketogenic diet and a low carb diet. Because when I am on carbs, I am not the same person mentally. Like, I am more overwhelmed, I’m more anxious. I nag on my husband more, I get, yeah, overwhelmed and anxious a lot more. My ADHD skyrockets. Like, I have such a hard time just staying focused on one task. Are these sort of things that you’re seeing people come to keto because of?

Priscilla Swahn [00:05:32]

Exactly. So that’s one of the things. Like, they come to keto for the weight loss. Right. They’re like, I’m tired of the way, you know, going up and down. Or they want to lose X, Y and Z. But the reason why they’re really staying is for the mental health reasons. Because we all know calorie counting works.

Priscilla Swahn [00:05:47]

Until it doesn’t. Right. It doesn’t work for most women long term. And the biggest problem is it doesn’t provide the brain with the fat that’s calming, which we can talk more about. And so, yeah, absolutely. I would 100% say that all of my clients, at the end of working with me, it is the mental health. They are like, I feel so good. Like, sure, I love the weight loss, but the mental health reason is why I want to keep doing this.

Priscilla Swahn [00:06:12]

Like, I just have more energy. I don’t have the anxiety and the panic attacks. You name it. Like, it’s so much better. And it’s just a beautiful thing to see that transformation.

Leanne Vogel [00:06:23]

Yes, completely. And something that you said, too, with the brain and fats. And why are we seeing this? Like, I get this question a lot. Like, why do carbs make me crazy? Like, what’s happening? And why are we seeing these changes as we start to bring fats into the picture?

Priscilla Swahn [00:06:39]

Right. So correct me if I’m wrong, but has mental health like anxiety and depression not skyrocketed over, like, the last 20 years? Like, we’re seeing a pandemic, in my opinion. Like, people are wanting antidepressants. They’re feeling stressed and anxious all the time. Then are we doing more research? Maybe, but I think there’s a correlation with that and the obesity epidemic as well. We’re eating more sugar, we’re eating more refined carbs and mental Health is skyrocketing at the same time. So I think there’s a correlation for sure with the sugar and mental health. For sure.

Leanne Vogel [00:07:17]

Yeah. And when we even think of Alzheimer’s, understanding that a lot of doctors are now calling IT diabetes type 3, that these brains cannot run on glucose, and that’s why we’re seeing this deterioration. And so if you just think we’re not talking about as far as dementia, but if our brain cells can run on either ketones or glucose, and we know that ketones are a more clean, burning fuel, then it would make sense that when we have ketones that our brains are functioning a lot better. And a really good thing that I encourage my clients to do. You know, when we first start going and they’re like, I don’t know, is keto right? For me, I’m not sure this is going to help. Sometimes I’ll recommend they grab some exogenous ketones and fast for the morning. As long as they can try to take it and just have some exogenous ketones just a little bit. If the package says have a teaspoon, I’m like a quarter teaspoon.

Leanne Vogel [00:08:11]

Add some to water and just take notice of your brain. Just how fast can you recall your aunts and uncles in your family? Or what do you have on your planner? Or a quick memory game of, okay, what are you doing on Wednesday? Say it all out loud, close your eyes and repeat it. Like, how quickly are you able to recall this information? And it is amazing the difference. And that’s just a little bit of exogenous ketones, right?

Priscilla Swahn [00:08:36]

I mean, like, It’s. I call B.S. on the whole, glucose carbs are the primary source of energy for the brain. We’re going to touch it. Come on. If your body in starvation mode goes to ketones, it starts using that as the primary source of fat and it’s protecting the brain. That’s why. Why would that not be the preferred source of fat? Like, yes, we can get all the research on all the crap, but I’m just saying a powerful impact on the functioning of the brain, protecting it.

Priscilla Swahn [00:09:07]

And in my opinion, it really is the preferred source of fuel because fat is calming. So many times we’re seeing, like, the neurotransmitters, we can get technical called gaba being so deficient and not working like it should be. And that just has. When you’re on a keto diet, they see those happy feelings, those happy neurotransmitters called gaba, they greatly increase because a lot of mental health Issues stem from inappropriately being able to utilize glucose as energy. And so carbs. So they’re not actually able to use carbs. So, yeah, diabetes of the brain. Exactly what I think.

Leanne Vogel [00:09:46]

And so you mentioned at the beginning, kind of with your practice, and I love this about your work, and it’s something that I attempt to do as well, is, yeah, we have a bunch of stuff going on, but what’s at the root cause of these issues, and I think, especially with mental health, there’s usually a bunch of causes to these issues. Yes, it is carbohydrates, but oftentimes too, when we look at mental health, would you say that there’s also nutrition deficiencies that are kind of at play also when it comes to mental health issues?

Priscilla Swahn [00:10:14]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like, I mean, I always love it if, you know, a client has any labs. I am a guru at labs. I’m like, okay, let’s figure this out. Let’s see what’s going on. Of course, we can always check the thyroid issues or anything going on with pcos, but kind of getting more root down to check, checking their zinc levels, the vitamin D3 and iodine and all these other ones, and vitamin B12, and just kind of looking at those as well. And there is oftentimes they’re greatly deficient in those as well.

Leanne Vogel [00:10:46]

Yeah, I’m glad that you brought up vitamin D. I’ll include this in the show notes. But there was a paper that was done in 2015, a review study, and it said that people that are lower in vitamin D show a higher propensity toward anxiety disorders. And I mean, there’s one lab that I’ve seen in the 13 years I’ve been doing this work. One lab, I saw it last week, and this woman had perfect vitamin D levels. And I was like, I had to double take. I’m like, are you sure this is right? Did you just test this? Like, how is this? Is this okay?

Priscilla Swahn [00:11:18]

Yeah, it never happens. Like, everyone. Everyone I always see has to be put on vitamin D of some sort. Like, even, like, there’s research done that, like, I’m in San Antonio. So even in a hot climate like San Antonio, I guarantee you the majority, like 85%, at least, if not more, are vitamin D deficient. You know, it’s like, you can be outside and you’re not absorbing it like you should. It really comes from the diet. Doesn’t matter how long you’re outside or not.

Leanne Vogel [00:11:45]

Yeah. My vitamin D journey has gone on for a really long time. I was diagnosed with very, very Severe, severe, low vitamin D levels. And no matter what I did, shots, supplements, going out in the sun, it did not help. And it wasn’t until I massively increased my animal protein consumption and went into the sun and got on a proper supplement that I was able to level it off. Now I’m sitting around 90, which is awesome and has never happened in the history of my life. But also what I think a lot of people do with vitamin D is they just go on, I mean, like 10,000 IUs every day, all the time. And I have concerns over that also.

Leanne Vogel [00:12:26]

What do you do in your practice and what’s your kind of recommendation on vitamin D as we know that it helps our mental health so much.

Priscilla Swahn [00:12:33]

Right. I think 10,000 is a bit much in my personal opinion. I think something around like 2000, 2000 IUs a day is very maintainable for the long term. And vitamin D3, because there’s another one called D2 and that’s more used, I would just use it for like a month at a really high dosage. And it’s not meant to be used over a long period of time. So D3 is, is the one that you use consistently for a long period of time. And it’s usually by month two of taking that in conjunction with changing their diet and keto and all the good stuff that they’re like, okay, I am getting more energy, I’m feeling better, I’m sleeping better.

Leanne Vogel [00:13:09]

Yes. To touch on the sleep that’s so important. I’m totally with you in that camp. How I raised my vitamin D from the very, very low level was 5,000 IUs a day. And I checked my vitamin D monthly. And once I got up to that level, I went down to a thousand. And I’m so happy that you mentioned the D3K. Like, I do D3K2 and that combination is like, it’s just perfect.

Leanne Vogel [00:13:31]

And I also, I think another deficiency that’s huge that you touched on also a zinc zinc deficiency. And women who have hormonal birth control, we know that their zinc is going to be lower because it increases their copper. Do you know of the signs of zinc deficiency or kind of what people should be looking for when it comes to zinc and mental issues, that’s a.

Priscilla Swahn [00:13:55]

Little harder, but a big one is anxiety and irritability just kind of like the little mood swings that are subtly going on and they can turn into big things and you just feel like, why am I crazy? Does it feel like there’s a full moon out every day? That’s kind of how women would equate, in my opinion, the zinc deficiency going on.

Leanne Vogel [00:14:14]

Yeah. So we’re going to include a bunch of different. Like you shared some papers. I’m going to include some. Zinc deficiency also can lead to depression, increased anxiety, irritability, emotional instability. Oh, this is an interesting one. Induce defects in social behavior. So maybe that’s our next piece to this is.

Leanne Vogel [00:14:35]

Did you notice when you started eating enough fat? I know for me I could actually be around people.

Priscilla Swahn [00:14:40]

Yeah. Did you notice this? I’m not gonna lie. I literally felt like within two months after going keto, I went from an introvert to an extrovert. Like, I was like, I used to want to be a homebody. I didn’t want to go out. I never felt like it. And then I was like, oh, I want to go out. I want to see people, I want to be out, have a drink.

Priscilla Swahn [00:14:58]

I don’t mind loud music now. Like things like that used to really like tick me and I just couldn’t handle it. Like it would almost put me into like an anxiety attack if I did it too much. And so it was just crazy how literally it can change your whole personality in a sense.

Leanne Vogel [00:15:19]

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Leanne Vogel [00:16:11]

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Leanne Vogel [00:16:24]

I remember when we were living in Montreal. I was vegan at the time and I had been vegan for about eight years and we went to this mall and I remember feeling so incredibly overwhelmed and there was so many people and so much noise that those sorts of environments where I was around a lot of people, like I Would avoid them at all costs. Like it made me really overwhelmed and really terrified. And about, I would say about six or seven months into my keto journey, I remember making a video and I didn’t realize until that moment somebody had asked me a question about mental health and I was like, wait, that doesn’t happen anymore. Like I can, I can handle all the noises and I can stay focused and I’m not so overwhelmed around people.

Priscilla Swahn [00:17:02]

Yeah, I mean literally like fat, it goes beyond just like being another energy source and weight loss, it literally is calming and changes. It just brings about a chill personality. That’s how I would like that is the easiest way. I just developed more of a I am Zen, I am chill, whatever. I didn’t care. It was just so relaxing compared to previously from my low calorie diets that I had been on or just low carb but not increasing the fat. But I was always still on edge and still had that anxiety. Then just seeing that beautiful transition to keto, it is so life changing completely.

Leanne Vogel [00:17:41]

And I think also too, when I’m going to paint a picture. So a woman goes on the ketogenic diet and she’s there for weight loss. But then like us, it sounds like she starts noticing I’m not weird around people, I can focus, I’m feeling so much better. And then the birthday cake rolls around or the event rolls around and she’s nervous because, oh my gosh, if I eat these carbohydrates, what’s it going to do to my brain? Do you have any advice for that person who, I mean, it’s a delicate balance between wanting to live your life but also knowing that when you have those carbohydrates, you’re not going to feel so great. What’s kind of your approach when it comes to that?

Priscilla Swahn [00:18:19]

So it depends, right? That’s my answer for everything. But it really depends your journey and when you’ve started, how far you’ve come in being keto. Right. If you’re a newbie and let’s say you have a history of binge eating and you’ve only been on keto for like three weeks. Right. You already know it’s amazing. But you’re around the birthday cake. I would caution maybe now is not the best time to have that birthday cake quite yet because you still aren’t there, you might feel overwhelmed, you might get, oh, I gotta have more sugar.

Priscilla Swahn [00:18:50]

But I would say more for an individual that’s I guess around like two months, you know, a little more fat adapted, they’re More confident and listening to their body’s fullness. And they can really tell that’s. By the time I have a client that will go out, they’ll have that piece of cake. And they’re like, whoa, I had just like a half a piece or a quarter of a piece, and that was too much. But I could stop because my brain just told me that was enough. And so that’s just, like, cool. Like, they can still go out and enjoy the things. It’s just.

Priscilla Swahn [00:19:18]

It’s not addicting anymore. And their brain is the one that tells them more than the stomach.

Leanne Vogel [00:19:23]

I’m glad that you mentioned the addictive piece, which is something we haven’t talked about yet as it relates to even mental health on a ketogenic diet. Something I’ve noticed for myself personally and also my clients. There’s that funky transition where we go keto and all we want is carbohydrates, but then it kind of lulls down and you’re like, I’m not that interested in this, actually. Or you have a little bite and you’re like, no, I’m good. And that to not be crazy around food is a huge mental health benefit, at least for myself.

Priscilla Swahn [00:19:52]

Absolutely. Like, one of my best stories as a girl. She does have pcos, right? And one of the biggest things she struggled with was binge eating, as especially around the time her period rolled over, because she just would have those intense cravings, and it was just a mess, which we. After month three, she would literally get to her period, and she said, I decided to have a bite of my husband’s chocolate bar. I tasted it, and I’m like, this isn’t even good anymore. I don’t want anymore. And so that’s just the beautiful transition that she went through from day one to just month three. She didn’t even like the taste of a Snickers bar anymore.

Priscilla Swahn [00:20:26]

And she felt in control, unrelieved.

Leanne Vogel [00:20:29]

Oh, you know what? We. I have a very similar story. Kevin and I were on our second keto book tour, and this was like, we had done all the US we were just starting Canada. We were going from Victoria to Vancouver or Vancouver to Calgary, I can’t remember. And our flight got upgraded, which was awesome. I love when that happens on tour because you’re so tired. You’ve been on a billion planes. And we sat down first class, and they’re going around with this big basket of large chocolate bars, and you can have as much as you want.

Leanne Vogel [00:21:00]

And Kevin, ever since I remember we’ve been together, I think 14 years now. He had a Kit Kat bar every day. Every day he would go to iga, it’s like a grocery store in Canada, and he would get a Kit Kat bar and a water, and he would eat that on his way home from work every day. And so Kevin had gone keto on the tour because he was like, I’m around a bunch of keto people, you’re talking about keto. I probably should try this keto thing. And so he had been keto for about 40 days. And we jump on the plane and the lady comes by with the big kick out bars and he’s like, no, thank you. And I was like, what? And he’s like, I just don’t feel like it.

Priscilla Swahn [00:21:43]

No. That’s the biggest fear when you go keto is I’m going to have to say no to all the foods I love, all the carbs. But the thing you don’t realize is those foods that you love now most likely are going to be few and far four months later, three months later, like, they just aren’t going to be your favorite foods anymore. And like, it’s hard because people don’t realize that. And then once they’re there, they’re like, this is freaking amazing. Like, I love other foods better for me than that. And so it’s really cool.

Leanne Vogel [00:22:15]

Yes, completely. And I guess it’s worth noting specifically as we are starting our ketogenic diet. But something I’ve noticed, especially as it relates to mental health, is, and we touched on this a little bit with vitamin deficiencies, mineral deficiencies, but also, if we are not eating quality food, there might be a woman listening that’s like, what the heck? I’m still dealing with anxiety and overwhelm. Perhaps my child has ADHD and we’re trying, but it’s not working. Do you feel like food quality has a role to play for the results that we experience as it relates to our mental health?

Priscilla Swahn [00:22:49]

Absolutely. So just like when it comes to weight loss, the biggest thing I always tell clients, if you’re not losing weight on keto, most likely you have inflammation going on. Okay. Because if you have inflammation or you have a vitamin deficiency, even that can be out of whack. Weight loss is not going to fall off. And the main reasons for the inflammation are, well, if you have a hormone imbalance, we do know gluten, dairy can be big reasons for the inflammation. But also highly processed keto snacks, like, they’ll even have gluten in them or they have all these chemicals in them. They’re like, what is that? I can’t even pronounce it.

Priscilla Swahn [00:23:24]

And so they’re contributing to the reason why you’re not losing weight. I see that all the time. So, yes, absolutely.

Leanne Vogel [00:23:31]

Yeah. And I think we can get so tied up. And I mean, I still do this. It’s been eight years. I know better. But some company will send me something, like, if I get a perfect keto box. In fact, I just got a new box of perfect keto bars. And I’m like, leanne, only eat one because one is nice, but eight in a day is not okay.

Leanne Vogel [00:23:51]

It’s just not okay. And I think we get so comfortable with keeping our diet the same or relying on the same foods that we don’t get that variety that’s required.

Priscilla Swahn [00:24:01]

And it’s really easy. I’ll do the same thing. I’ll be like, okay, I’ll get myself keto cookies, right? And they’ll come in a nice little cute bag, and they’re like five servings. I’ll have it all. Because it’s only 2 grams of net carbs for a serving or only 10 for the entire bag. Right? And I’m like, oh, these are so good. They’re cookies. And then I eat the entire bag because it’s keto cookies.

Priscilla Swahn [00:24:21]

What the heck? It’s okay. But it still has an effect on the brain. The brain can still register it as sugar, whether we believe it or not. And then it has all the other additives in there that can cause inflammation in the brain. So you might not see the whole improvement in ADHD or anxiety, even though you might think it’s keto, you’re hitting your macros. So I always spend less time on. Let’s count the macros on. More time on the quality of food.

Leanne Vogel [00:24:50]

And what that looks like awesome. And so we’ve talked about nutrition deficiencies, rather a little bit of inflammation. Do you recommend testing? Like, the whole test. Don’t guess. Is really where I try to put myself, because oftentimes clients will be like, it’s totally fine. Everything’s okay. And I’m like, but is it? I think we should test this before we put you on a vitamin D, because if your levels. I mean, it’s very rare, like I said, that vitamin D is going to be high, but we should not be supplementing with vitamin D if it’s high enough.

Priscilla Swahn [00:25:22]

Right.

Leanne Vogel [00:25:22]

So what’s your feeling on testing?

Priscilla Swahn [00:25:25]

So, yes, when it comes to food, there’s nothing wrong with experimenting with it, you know, cutting out some gluten and dairy to see how you feel and watching the quality of food without getting tested, that is perfectly fine. But it’s more for, okay, what’s going on, you’re not losing that weight as well or kind of like, why aren’t we seeing the changes? And that’s before I ever put anyone on any type of vitamin or mineral. Even though it’s not a drug, I still consider it a form of a drug. Right. Because our bodies get out of whack if we’re deficient, so they’re gonna be out of whack if it’s too high. So I do love labs for that reason. I turn into a little lab geek and get excited when I’m like, ooh, these are the ranges that you’re in. So yeah, absolutely.

Priscilla Swahn [00:26:07]

I think it’s a great call.

Leanne Vogel [00:26:09]

Yeah, it’s kind of playing that as somebody who has a one on one practice. Also, it’s so fun to take your clients through that process and educate them on what to look for on their labs. Because those numbers that we see on the panels are based on a bunch of sick people going in, getting tested, and then they make those ranges. But there are optimal ranges, not only for healthy people, but for each individual. Like for example, with my thyroid, I know that my free T3 has to be considerably higher than what even my holistic practitioner would say is okay. But I know that if it’s not at that level for me, I’m not going to feel optimal. And so it’s kind of that we were talking about before we started recording, like how great it would be if people had about $500 in a side bank account every three months that we could do testing. But it does get very expensive.

Priscilla Swahn [00:27:00]

Yes, absolutely. You know, it really just depends, like with yourself having a thyroid issue or are you a fairly common healthy individ individual? It really just depends. And I do love it for my girls with hypothyroidism. Like I had a client, like she was slowly, slowly seeing weight loss and inches loss and she’s like, you know, she had lost maybe 16 pounds in four months, which for hypothyroidism is amazing. Like, we gotta celebrate that. But for her, she’s like, it’s not as fast as, you know, X, Y and Z. Who does keto? Right. They’re not losing like 30 pounds or whatever in the time.

Priscilla Swahn [00:27:34]

So I was like, well, let’s go get your labs tested. And so she went to this holistic doctor that I refer a lot of my clients to and her doctor said, oh my God, you’re no longer hypothyroid. You’re actually hyperthyroid. We have to take you off of your levothyroxine. So that. Because your thyroid hormones have literally balanced out being on keto. So her. In her mind, she was having slow success, but her.

Priscilla Swahn [00:27:57]

In the end, her thyroid hormones had literally balanced out. And so that was just a beautiful thing. She actually got to get off of her medicine. And. Yeah, that was after four months.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:08]

That’s interesting. I’m just so curious why she would have been put on levothyroxine as a hypothyroid. Did she have Hashimoto’s?

Priscilla Swahn [00:28:16]

She did have some variation in that, yes.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:18]

Okay. Okay.

Priscilla Swahn [00:28:19]

Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:19]

Because anytime I see that on a panel, I’m like, and can we talk to your doctor about being put on desiccated or armored thyroid and p. Thyroid?

Priscilla Swahn [00:28:28]

Yeah. And unfortunately, a lot of doctors do put them on high level thyroxine, which it’s not my favorite completely.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:34]

Me neither. And that’s, I think, another piece of the mental health thing. I mean, I have a couple of experiences. Oh, man. I think because you’re a health practitioner, you like. I mean, I run my labs, like full, complete labs every three months. And I’m always kind of playing with things and levers and discovering new things I can test for. And we were talking earlier that I just got certified to read Dutch panels, which has been so fun to add to my practice and also just for me to understand it all.

Leanne Vogel [00:29:04]

And when I was in Canada, I was on a desiccated thyroid. And when we came down to the US And I couldn’t get my thyroid capsules, I switched over to, was it NP Thyroid first? Yes, NP thyroid. Same component of desiccated thyroid. I looked at all like, I looked at actually how they compound it, what the ingredients were, how the. I don’t even know what it’s called. The chemistry, the chemical makeup of this supplement, it was the same girl. I went crazy. I was so depressed.

Leanne Vogel [00:29:37]

I was depressed, I was moody. I felt completely out of control mentally. And months went by, and my husband, just on the off chance, he’s like, didn’t you change your thyroid? Should you, like, test it or something? Like, what’s going on? I’m like, oh, my gosh. Gosh. It’s the thyroid medicine. I’m not on the right dosage. And that was just rocked me. And it’s unfortunate.

Leanne Vogel [00:29:58]

The thyroid is such a tricky, tricky thing to balance, but can cause a lot of mental issues if not properly medicated or not Properly supported. Would you agree?

Priscilla Swahn [00:30:08]

Oh, absolutely. It’s like the fine balance. Right. Because I have worked clinically even with, like, hyperparathyroidism and hypoparathyroidism. So it’s a little different. Different type of thyroid, but you still are working with vitamin D, you’re working with calcium and then these other minerals. And it’s like every time you feel like you’re moving one, decreasing one, and it’s just like. But it can be a beautiful thing when you finally get it balanced out and you’re like, they feel good, they’re happy, and the weight is stabilizing.

Priscilla Swahn [00:30:35]

And it’s like, okay, I did my job. I’m so happy it worked out in the end.

Leanne Vogel [00:30:39]

Yes. And it takes a lot of finessing and. And when it comes to thyroid, I think, and I hate to kind of take this stance because I usually don’t take a black and white stance. I have not been able to for myself personally and my clients, fix the thyroid, support the thyroid without testing multiple times. Would you agree?

Priscilla Swahn [00:30:59]

Absolutely.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:00]

Yes.

Priscilla Swahn [00:31:00]

Because it can be a finicky thing. It might be a little lower than a little higher. And you just have to consistently. I mean, when I work clinically, monthly. Monthly, where I did that, because they would just change. They would go up a little bit, go down a little bit, and then once you had it right, then you would maybe wait like three months to redraw them again, you know, but it’s always that you do have to keep an eye on it, for sure.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:22]

Yeah. And I mean, oh, this is such a pain point for me, working with clients who their doctor puts them on just Synthroid, let’s say, for example, and it’s like, let’s test another six months to a year.

Priscilla Swahn [00:31:35]

Yep.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:36]

What? No. And I think especially when I go through very stressful periods, like, for example, when I’m on tour and I have to be on. On the last two tours, I doubled my thyroid medication. It needed to be doubled because of the stress.

Priscilla Swahn [00:31:52]

Wow. But at least you knew that like you knew yourself. And that’s always the biggest thing. I always tell clients, you gotta know yourself. And then once you know yourself, you know how much and how little you’re your own practitioner. Right. You’re the doctor of yourself. But it’s not just something you learn overnight.

Priscilla Swahn [00:32:08]

You’ve got to practice it and know yourself. It takes time.

Leanne Vogel [00:32:12]

Yes, completely. And I guess since we talked a little bit about testing, what do you recommend for thyroid testing? That’s like the kind of the. Go to thyroid tests now.

Priscilla Swahn [00:32:23]

That’s not my specialty when it comes to the hypothyroidism. I leave that up to my functional medicine doctor for sure. But she definitely tracks the cortisol, the T4, the T3, TSH. But those are the main ones that I’m like, okay, what else do you have?

Leanne Vogel [00:32:37]

I’m the same. I think the biggest pain point is when people diagnose thyroid issues with just tsh. I think the initial test. No, I disagree with what I’m about to say. I’m like, if you just want to test the TSH and then if it’s off, test everything else. But the TSH can be quote, unquote balanced. But as soon as you look at that free T3 or free T4, you’re going to know you kind of need the big picture when you’re looking at the thyroid. Would you agree?

Priscilla Swahn [00:33:04]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Because, like, I’ll have individuals say, I don’t think I have a thyroid issue. But then we’ll look at, okay, maybe they did for themselves take like a food sense sensitivity, you know, out there, some tests out there, and I look at them, you know, I take them with a grain of salt. Not all of them are very accurate, but I’ll look at them. I’m like, it looks like you have sensitivities to the same foods that my hypothyroid patients typically have. And so once we work with that alone and then they finally get tested and they find, oh, I do have these off. The T3 and T4 is.

Priscilla Swahn [00:33:33]

It was. Even though the TSH was like, okay, whatever, you know, with the normal doctor, then they’re like, okay, I do gotta watch these foods. I do have hypothyroidism. And I didn’t know that.

Leanne Vogel [00:33:44]

Yeah, I’m one of those patients always. It’s like, if I’m dealing with something, I hope that there’s a problem. I hope that there’s a diagnosis so that I can fix it or manage it. So I don’t feel this way anymore.

Priscilla Swahn [00:33:57]

I mean, there is nothing worse than feeling like you’re crazy. You’re like, something’s wrong with me. I just want to put my finger on it. And so that’s what they always say. Once you have a diagnosis of some sort. I feel like you feel empowered and relieved. Like, sure, it can be a little shocking at first, but then you know what you have and you know that you just need to learn how to manage it completely.

Leanne Vogel [00:34:18]

Since we’ve talked a bunch about responsible supplementation has definitely come up another Experience that I had personally last March, which put me into a huge depressive state, which was actually horrible. I was put on a high dose methyl folate, and I knew nothing about folate at the time. My folate level was low. The doctor was like, here you go, here’s 5,000. Is it micrograms? Folate? I’m pretty sure micrograms. Maybe it’s milligrams, doesn’t matter. Anyways, I went nuts. I was a mess.

Leanne Vogel [00:34:51]

And it took me months to figure out again that it was a supplementation. And now I have now figured out that I have the MTHFR mutation. I can’t have that much folate. And so I think really the point of this conversation is like, just because people say, oh my gosh, you need the methylated folate or you need the vitamin D or you need this, that. And the other thing, if you’re not testing and you’re not understanding these high doses of things, it can really mess up your brain.

Priscilla Swahn [00:35:20]

Absolutely. Like, there was a time I was like, well, fish oil is good. So I just grabbed the highest dosage of Omega 3 I could find, literally in a week. I was super anxious and feeling depressed. And it’s like, then I later learned, well, that was too high for me. And you also need some vitamin D3 and a little bit of calcium. They all need to work together.

Leanne Vogel [00:35:39]

And so.

Priscilla Swahn [00:35:40]

So it’s finding that balance. And just because you’re like, oh, they always say on the news or in the magazines, have more fish oil, have more omega, like, it doesn’t always just work as simply as putting yourself on the highest dose. That’s why I do consider, you know, vitamins and minerals are just like medicine. They really are.

Leanne Vogel [00:35:58]

Yes, completely. And it’s so great that we have access to them and that we can use them and that they’re tools that we have available. But. But it’s kind of discouraging. And I’m sure you’ve seen this in your practice also. What? I started working with a client recently, and on her form it said that she was taking dim. And so that always raises a little red flag. And I’m like, okay, we got to have a conversation about this dim and why she started it.

Leanne Vogel [00:36:20]

She just saw an ad that said all women have high estrogen and if you don’t want cancer, put yourself on dim. And she’s been taking it for years.

Priscilla Swahn [00:36:28]

Yeah. And, you know, sometimes the easiest thing that we think in our minds, well, I’ll change my diet when I change my diet. But the easiest Thing for me to do is, is grab that supplement and start taking it or whatever. And the diet. Diet needs to be number one in conjunction to drawing your labs and figuring out, okay, what do I need to work on? So, absolutely.

Leanne Vogel [00:36:53]

Let’s talk about something that’s been an absolute game changer for my skin. BioCell Collagen. I’ve been using it daily, and I cannot believe the difference that it’s made. My skin is smoother, it’s more hydrated, and it has this healthy glow about it that wasn’t there before. And I don’t necessarily care for my skin all that well. I don’t do expensive treatments or fancy things. But the best part is that it’s happening from the inside out. And that’s all thanks to BioCell Collagen.

Leanne Vogel [00:37:23]

BioCell isn’t just your average collagen. It’s a special formulation for better absorption, which means your body gets more of the nutrients it needs to keep your skin looking youthful and radiate radiant. It’s like giving your skin a boost from inside, helping to reduce wrinkles and improve elasticity. Want to see some amazing benefits yourself? Head on over to mygrowinghair.com to get a month supply of BioCell collagen for 25 off. And if you set up a subscription, you’ll save an additional 25 off every future order forever. That’s 15% savings every month. Month. And remember, when you purchase through my site, I’ll send you a personal text message so that we can stay connected on all things cauldron, hair and skin health.

Leanne Vogel [00:38:11]

Visit mygrowinghair.com today to get started completely.

Leanne Vogel [00:38:16]

And you mentioned sleep a little bit ago and a lack of sleep or inability to sleep or getting up, tossing and turning in the middle of the night. All those things can definitely affect. Affect our overall mental health. What has been your experience with sleep quality in your practice?

Priscilla Swahn [00:38:33]

So, yeah, they’re definitely inversely related. You know, they both affect each other. You can have poor sleep quality, gain weight, throw your hormones off mental health. So it’s like a vicious little cycle going on, and it can raise your stress hormones. So the biggest number one thing I see is absolutely keto. Like, I want my clients first. Say, I want them to plan out every night they’re gonna go to bed. Like, if they have been averaging like five hours every.

Priscilla Swahn [00:38:59]

I’m like, okay, might not be realistic to get you to go to eight hours every night. Let’s increase that to where you go to bed 30 minutes this night. Try it For a week. Then let’s increase it again. But absolutely. First getting that sleep scheduled in and then in conjunction working with keto because fat, it just really relaxes the brain and calms it. So it kind of turns off the whole thinking at night, viciously going and can’t turn it off mentality where it actually will relax you, it calms you and then you’re able to actually finally start getting that quality sleep. In addition to planning out when you’re going to bed and increasing that amount of time.

Leanne Vogel [00:39:39]

I love the idea of planning when you’re going to go to bed. I just got into this practice a couple of months ago completely by accident. I started reading the Bible before bed and my day ends at 8pm Like I don’t care what’s going on, whatever’s happening, I’m going to my bed and I’m reading my Bible. And since doing that just inadvertently, I’m going to bed consistently at 10 o’clock every night. And it’s been months and it’s so consistent and I just, I love it. It’s great. I always just would go to bed like whenever I was tired. I wouldn’t have any structure.

Leanne Vogel [00:40:15]

And having that plan and structure of this is what I do at 8pm nothing gets in the way of that has been been so incredibly helpful for my personal sleep.

Priscilla Swahn [00:40:25]

And for you probably reading the Bible is therapeutic and relaxing to you instead of reading the news or checking your social media. Right. So yeah, absolutely different. Yes, absolutely. Finding that thing that’s like it puts you in that happy spot where you’re at ease and you’re calm and you find that peace. So that does having that habits that lead you to bed does absolutely make the difference.

Leanne Vogel [00:40:49]

Difference too completely. And I’m sure you deal with this in your practice also hot flashes and sleeping. Do you have clients that just cannot sleep because of their hot flashes and kind of. What are the tools that you’re doing to help with that? Because that will make you feel completely not okay mentally.

Priscilla Swahn [00:41:07]

Yeah, I mean for the most part. I mean perimenopause, menopause, post menopause, those are definitely the ones for sure that will struggle with it. But more so I see that mostly in week one and two just, just transitioning into keto, having all the weird funkiness and so yes, hot flashes are absolutely one of them. The biggest thing that I see that will help with hot flashes. Well, turning down the AC to like 60 at night, sure that’ll help. But just having enough fat and having your bone broth Making sure you’re getting the collagen, something about the electrolytes. Those can very beneficial for helping reduce that type of symptom, in my opinion.

Leanne Vogel [00:41:48]

Awesome. Yeah. In my practice too, I’ve been using a lot of maca. I’ll include it in the show notes. Actually, a lot of my clients use MACA to help with the hot flashes. I find that really helps. And CBD also to just like, get them asleep. Like, let’s get you asleep.

Leanne Vogel [00:42:06]

Because I find women who are in that age group are usually kind of in that place where their work is quite stressful and they’re very overwhelmed and they’re trying to coordinate a lot of their house stuff. And their kids are like teenagers or young adults. So there’s like a lot of stuff going on. Like just getting them in bed and getting them to sleep with something like a CBD has been really helpful.

Priscilla Swahn [00:42:29]

And what is your experience with.

Leanne Vogel [00:42:31]

Oh, I use Eaton Hemp. That’s what I find. Like, there are so many. Do you find this with CBD oils? Like, there’s so many garbage brands, and they’re all like, we’re the best, but there’s no science behind them. And I was just so incredibly frustrated with the CBD market in general. It’s like snake oil. It’s horrible.

Priscilla Swahn [00:42:48]

I mean, like, yeah, I was like, for supplements or any even keto products out there, it’s finding that clean substance that is minimal, extra additives and is the pure stuff. That’s what it comes down to in the end. So that’s awesome.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:02]

Yeah. And like, honest companies, it’s so important. And I’m sure you also in your practice is like, aligning yourself with awesome companies and not even just the company, but. But the people that work at these companies, who’s the owner? How do they run their business? How do they take care of their employees? What kind of programs do they have? Like, all of that makes a difference. And I take that stuff really seriously. Because you’re recommending. I mean, some CBD oils are $150 each. People are putting a lot of money into this.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:31]

It has to be good and it has to work because it’s your name on the line and you want to make sure they’re cared for.

Priscilla Swahn [00:43:37]

Absolutely. Yeah. For sure.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:38]

Sure. Completely. Okay, so we talked about responsible supplementation. And really just testing is also really important. What about beyond nutrition? I’ve been really fascinated in helping my clients and just helping people in general to kind of see what behaviors they’ve been kind of like, that have supported them. Into the type of lifestyle that they have. Very similar to what you said, like planning out when I’m gonna go to bed and planning out what I’m going to make for dinner. So you’re not at 5:00.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:08]

Like we have no food in the house, what am I doing? Like all these different behaviors. Do you find that also in your practice, like really coaching people through the planning and the structure and the behaviors that support their mental wellbeing?

Priscilla Swahn [00:44:21]

Absolutely. That is like whenever there’s a hiccup or oh, I’m just getting busy, I’m like, well, did you make a plan for it? Did you have a plan in place? It kind of like meal planning, like you gotta plan out your life and have just a weekly idea and write it it out initially. What does that look like? And that goes for exercise. What type of exercise you do, how often you do it, what makes you the happiest or having non food rewards. It’s all those things you got to think about, plan about and not just let a situation pop up, grab you by surprise and you just go. So yes, planning.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:56]

That’s my favorite, the stuff catching by surprise. I think the ticket for me is whenever I say I’m going to blah, blah, blah, what’s your plan? I just won’t eat. That is the worst plan.

Priscilla Swahn [00:45:07]

Yep. And that’s literally what was happening. I had a client like that, you know, throughout the holiday. She’s like, I’m trying to follow the meal plan but it’s really hard. She kept going over to her family that lived close by. And so I said, well, what’s your plan? Well, I don’t know, I’m just gonna go there. They have snacks out all the time. There are some that I like or there’s snacks there that you can always eat.

Priscilla Swahn [00:45:29]

And she is like, well, not always. So I was like, well, how about you have a plan that every time you go over you contribute and take one of your snacks that you know that you can eat and enjoy and that you love while having a good social time. And she was like, oh yeah. And then she started losing that weight because she had a plan, she did it and she got to contribute and feel good at the same time. It wasn’t like she’s going to an event and just acting like I can’t eat that. She contributed and shared.

Leanne Vogel [00:45:57]

Yeah, that’s the best thing is the sharing. And I mean it’s so rare that living on a boat and having people constantly coming to our home or going to their home, it’s very social lifestyle. And I’ve met hundreds of people and I’ve been on hundreds of people’s boats and they’ve been on ours. And it’s never this uncomfortable thing when I’m like, I brought over pork rinds. Want to see what this tastes like with chimichurri? And everyone’s like, yeah, yeah, what is that? What is a pork rind? I don’t understand, how do they make this? And it’s fun to get to educate other people on the decisions that we’re making and why we make these choices. And nine times out of ten say it’s like a husband and wife. The wife is like, why do you eat like that? Like, what’s going on there? And then it starts a conversation. She’s like, I feel this way too.

Leanne Vogel [00:46:40]

And oh my gosh, I struggle with this also. And it’s never been a problem.

Priscilla Swahn [00:46:44]

Absolutely. And if you do, for instance, ever have that one individual that’s like, well, I’ve heard, blah, blah, blah, keto is horrible, blah, blah, blah, it’s their problem. They’re self deflecting. They have their own insecurities. Just turn the conversation around, don’t worry about it. Because again, sometimes it can be like politics and religion and people are just spotting their ways and. But yes, I have found that it’s.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:06]

Very few and far completely. Where can people find more from you, connect with you? What do you have going on? How do people work with you? Tell us all the things.

Priscilla Swahn [00:47:16]

Absolutely. So I’m on social media @ketogirlnutritionist and that’s also my website and I would love to have you. I have a group program that is three to six months and I work with ladies specifically who are balancing hormones to lose weight, all the good things, pcos, hypothyroidism. But then I also do work with clients that I do get that want to work on bipolar, schizophrenia, PTSD and tailoring the keto diet specifically for that so that they do feel better. So yes, I would love to have you stop by and say hi.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:49]

Amazing. I will put all those links. If you’re watching the video, you can find it down below on YouTube and if you’re listening to the audio, I’ll be sure to add all your special places where people can connect with you in the show notes so you guys can watch for that. And Priscilla, thank you so much for coming on the show again.

Priscilla Swahn [00:48:04]

Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:07]

I just love taking episodes from the archives and bringing them back up on your feed if you want to check out out Priscilla’s work, you can check her out on Instagram, Keto Girl Nutritionist and also her website ketogirlnutritionist.com also in the show notes you’re going to see a supplement recommendation and on that link if you click that link, it’ll ask you to set up an account and you’ll get 20 off all supplements on that site through fullscript. And my dispensary has like a bunch of different protocols and things you can use to get you started if you need more direction on that front. Okay, we will see you back here next week. Bye.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:50]

Thanks for listening to the Helpful Pursuit Podcast. Join us next Tuesday for another episode of the show. If you’re looking for free resources, there are a couple of places you can go. The first to my blog healthfulpursuit.com where you’re going to find loads of recipes. The second is a free parasite protocol that I’ve put together for you that outlines symptoms, testing and resources to determine whether or not you have a parasite, plus a full protocol to follow to eradicate them from your life if you need to. That’s available at healthfulpursuit.com parasites and last but certainly not least, a full list of blood work markers to ask your doctor for so that you can get a full picture of your health. You can grab that free resource by going to healthfulpursuit.com labs the helpful pursuit Podcast, including show notes and links, provides information in respect to healthy living recipes, nutrition and diet and is intended for informational purposes only. The information provided is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor is it to be construed as such.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:53]

We cannot guarantee that the information provided.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:55]

On the Helpful Pursuit Podcast cast reflects.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:57]

The most up to date medical research. Information is provided without any representation or warranties of any kind. Please consult a qualified health practitioner with any questions you may have regarding your.

Leanne Vogel [00:50:08]

Health and nutrition program.

The post Carbs, Anxiety, and Your Brain with Priscilla Swahn first appeared on Healthful Pursuit.

Diane Ducarme [00:00:00]

Which is going to challenge the woman in her family situation, but also in her professional life. And so it’s going to be really hard for her to manage and also feel listened to because there’s no real solution aside of medication. And so that’s going to make the woman feel very isolated. And so she’s going to start to learn to fake that she’s fine.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:21]

Hello and welcome to another episode. I’m so glad that we get to hang out today and chat about migraines. So, so many of you have told me that migraines are a challenge for you.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:32]

I myself personally deal with them when.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:34]

I’m structurally not okay. And we chat about the differences in the episode. Today we’re talking about how migraines feel, the symptoms of migraines, the sign that a migraine is going to hit, and the anxiety that happens in anticipation of the migraine triggers root causes and a couple of things you may not have assessed or thought of when it comes.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:56]

To the root causes behind migraines.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:59]

Our guest today’s name is Diane Ducarme. She hosts the podcast Migraine Heroes.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:08]

So if after today’s episode you’re like, darn, I want to learn from Diane. She sounds awesome and you can find her there. Diane comes from a very large family.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:19]

Of ladies and she is Belgian of origin.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:22]

Her mother tongue is French.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:24]

In the last 15 years, Diane has.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:26]

Lived in South Africa, the U.S. china.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:29]

And now New Zealand. She brings so much understanding of root causes behind migraines to the platform that.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:38]

We haven’t discussed before. So I’m really excited to go through this. With her understanding of healing, nutrition and roots in Chinese medicine, it’s just a really great conversation. Overall, let’s cut over to our time with Diane.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:57]

Hey, my name is Leanne and I’m fascinated with helping women navigate how to eat, move and care for their bodies. This has taken me on a journey from vegan keto, high protein to everything in between. I’m a small town holistic nutritionist turned three time international bestselling author turned functional medicine practitioner offering telemedicine services around the globe to women looking to better their health and stop second guessing themselves. I’m here to teach you how to wade through the wellness noise to get to the good stuff that’ll help you achieve your goals. Whether you’re seeking relief from chronic ailments, striving for peak performance, or simply eager to live a more vibrant life, this podcast is your go to resource for actionable advice and inspiration. Together we’ll uncover the interconnectedness of nutrition, movement, sleep, stress management, and mindset, empowering you to make informed choices that support your unique health journey. Think of it as quality time with your bestie mixed with a little med school so you’re empowered. At your next doctor visit, get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn about your body and how to care for it healthfully.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:03]

Join me as we embrace vitality, reclaim our innate potential, and discover what it truly means to pursue healthfulness.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:20]

Hey, Diane, how’s it going?

Diane Ducarme [00:03:22]

Very good. So good to be with you, Leanne.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:25]

Yes, yes. Thanks for being here. I like. I like to ask all of my guests why you do what you do and what lights you up on a daily basis with your work.

Diane Ducarme [00:03:35]

Ah, you know, because I can change, transform people’s lives. When I was 17, I had a skiing accident. I lost half of my blood. I broke my femur. I shrunk a kidney. And for the subsequent 12 years, I’ve been in quests of my old self just having my body work. And work took me to South Africa, the us, China. And in China, by coincidence, there’s a doctor who put me on back on my feet, not using acupuncture, not using herbs, just using food.

Diane Ducarme [00:04:02]

And that took three weeks. After three weeks, I was my old self. And this was the biggest gift I had ever received from any human beings. And I really dreamed. This was in 2011, and I dreamed, how can I give that to other people? And I thought, oh, you know, who’s. Who’s losing their blood, blood so much, and, you know, it’s not very frequent. But then, because I gravitated towards people who were struggling with their health when I was in business, I was listening a bit more when people were saying, I have problems physically, and I helped my sister and then the daughter of a neurologist with their migraines. And I made a huge difference in their life, a difference that was way bigger than even I had received.

Diane Ducarme [00:04:44]

And so what lights me in my day is when I have someone who’s battling with migraine disease for 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years has seen doctors, neurologists, the people who wrote the books, you know, who. Who did the everything. And yet they say the only person who fixed it was you. And that just fills my heart with joy, because then they see their husbands and they have time with their family, and they can work, earn their life, and just live again. And so that’s what lights me up, as you can tell.

Leanne Vogel [00:05:14]

Yeah, your whole continents just, like, changed. You’re just like a different person. When I asked you that question. You look just like so lit up. And that, that is so true. And what lights me up every day too is just those. It seems like a small suggestion. And when people implement your recommendations and they see change, it’s just so cool that you get that opportunity to work alongside somebody and make that difference.

Leanne Vogel [00:05:38]

And especially when it comes to migraines, I think like migraines and pain, they really go side by side. Whether it’s like full body pains or joint aches, it’s just debilitating. Like, I had a friend growing up whose mom had migraines and I saw her once, I knew this girl for probably a decade and I saw her mom once because she was always in her bedroom, always with the door closed. Like, we weren’t allowed to make noises upstairs because mom was sleeping. Like that was her life. What sorts of like. I’m sure there’s severity to migraines. What do you see as like the small baby issues to like the full blown crazy migraine issues?

Diane Ducarme [00:06:22]

Well, let’s start by the mother, your friend. I love that example because this is so, so true. So a migraine attack will be anywhere lasting from three hours to three, four days on paper. And in practice, like the mom of your friend, they can last sort of almost forever. Like the person is a constant state of pain and the head pain is just one aspect of it, which is there most of the time, but not always can be excruciating. More labor, like in intensity, then will come accompanied by a ton of other symptoms such as dizziness, vertigo, willingness sensation to vomit and actual vomiting can come with nausea. Sensitive to light, sensitivity to sound exactly like you explained, but also sensitivity to smell. Sometimes it can come with half paralysis of the body, or especially on one side, it can come with tingling sensations, trembling sensations.

Diane Ducarme [00:07:18]

And women will usually experience this in sort of three phases. A phase where they know it’s going to hit them. So they might be yawning uncontrollably, or they might experience really immense fatigue, or they might start to lose their eyesight and they know it’s coming and so can come a lot of anxiety because they know they’re going to be in massive pain a bit like, you know, before you give birth and you’re like, oh, I’ve done this once. This is not going to be, this is not going to be pleasant. And then they go into that massive phase of migraine attack. And then they have, after that migraine attack, they can still have lots of sensations where their body is completely groggy and Trying to recover from, like, a massive sort of. That would be a sort of almost hangover phase. That would be the third part.

Diane Ducarme [00:08:01]

And so. And so if we go back to your question, which is, what is light all the way too strong? The light version would be, hey, this happens to me once a month before my menstruation. Usually, I think I’ve tracked it like that. I think wine might be a trigger, or chocolate or cheese, I think, but not always. It’s also not always the case. But it just comes and goes. Can come at puberty and then all the way to. I’m in pain every single day.

Diane Ducarme [00:08:27]

I had a traumatic brain injury. I had a burnout at work. I started a new medication or pill, birth control, and I started perimenopause. And I’ve been in pain ever since. And so everything in between. Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:08:42]

Wow. Okay. There. There were a couple of triggers in there, and I definitely want to go back to them. But one thing that you said was the anxiety and the anticipation of it coming on can sometimes make it worse. And I can relate to that. I have, like, this chronic neck pain issue that comes on when I’m stressed. And when I feel it coming on, it can flare, like, really bad to the point where I’ll have nodules all over the back of my head.

Leanne Vogel [00:09:08]

And I know. I know when it’s coming on. I know when it’s going to get really bad. And the anxiety will make me stress more, which makes it worse. So you’re saying that migraines kind of have that same thing for many people where we know what’s coming on and then does the anxiety make the reaction come on quicker or worse in its severity?

Diane Ducarme [00:09:29]

Sometimes that is going to depend. So, yes, it can make it worse. I think what makes it really sad is let’s imagine that mother you were talking about. She was on that one day where she was standing up in her kitchen. The anxiety and anticipation of the next migraine attack takes away the joy that she can have in that given moment. And that’s really. That’s quite terrible because it means you live in constant pain. It’s constant, constant fear of your next migraine attack.

Diane Ducarme [00:09:58]

Now, stress itself and anxiety for even external factor can and are triggered for a lot of people. For some people in that zone of stress, they will have the migraine, and for some others is as soon as they have a relief. So it’s the weekend, it’s Friday night, it’s the holidays, then bam, they have massive migraines. And so they go, go, go, go, Go in that stress phase and it’s the release that brings the pain. So there’s variation, but definitely correlation for most. Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:10:26]

So you mentioned PMS and other, you know, smells making things worse. Are there different types of M. Like, certain people will be triggered by xyz? Like what. What are the triggers? What’s happening with all of that?

Diane Ducarme [00:10:42]

Yeah, yeah. So there are a lot of different types of migraines. So from a Western science perspective, there’s a lot of different name. You can have hemiplegic migraines or cluster migraines or migraines with aura or migraines without aura. So there’s a lot of names, probably around 10, 12 names of different types of migraines because we start to appreciate in the west how different people’s experiences. They will, unfortunately, language, just give us one word. But that one word means so many things to people who suffer from migraines. And for the rest of the ones that don’t have them, it means a headache.

Diane Ducarme [00:11:17]

So it’s quite an unfortunate word and a word quite hard to use. But, yes, you have a lot of different types and then a lot of different triggers. So for some people it might look like this. For some people it might look like, let’s take a child, they’re going to have maybe a migraine that they would then refer more as a headache because the intensity of the pain of what they’ve experienced later in their life was a lot more. But so they will put something cold on their forehead, and it’s mainly on the forehead and then they go lie down in the dark. And the mother or the grandmother, who may have had or may have migraine themselves, have a sense of what to do in those circumstances might medicate the child. And then through puberty, the person can have sort of more violent migraines. Then you can have some people who go for the exams and then they kind of lose their eyesight and in that moment it looks like a stroke.

Diane Ducarme [00:12:08]

So the person is going to have a lot of stroke similitude symptoms. They will end up at the emergency room and after three days and a lot of medications, the doctor will come and say, oh, what you had was a migraine. And people are usually very surprised. Like, Wes, what do you mean? Like this felt so much more. And they’re left with that diagnosis a little bit. Yeah. Without much answers. So, yes, a lot of different variations.

Leanne Vogel [00:12:34]

So when it comes to our audience, many of us are women between the ages of like 40 to 55 ish. Some of us are experiencing challenges with PMS, where I’m sure migraines are coming and going, or even menopause, where migraines are coming and going. What are the common issues like plaguing women in those kind of groups when it comes to migraines?

Diane Ducarme [00:12:58]

Great question. They are massive. So when you look at the stats, because migraine is genetic, it’s 5% of boys and girls, the incidence triples for women to quadruples for women at puberty. So once the hormones change and go upwards towards fertility, it starts, we start to reshuffle the cards on who gets them. Once you get to 40 to 55, suddenly everything changes yet again. And so in that phase, a lot of women may, for some, lessen their migraine. For some, they start to have some and for others they just change in nature. For some, they accentuate.

Diane Ducarme [00:13:37]

So it’s a crossroad where again, how people, the intensity of the, of the pain that people experience is going to vary. And so what you’re going to see a lot around that age is women will feel a lot more dizziness, fogginess, vertigo, sometimes if they have sensitivity to light or eye issues such as glaucoma or lesions behind the eyes, et cetera, all of that is going to start to be accentuated. And it’s really difficult because it comes with all of the perimenopausal symptoms as well. At the same time, they might have hot flashes, not sleep really well at night, not digest wine, cheese, chocolate as much, not be able to handle as much stress. So it comes in addition to all of the rest. But yes, they will have that. And one of the things that women in that category have more is also something called Meniere’s disease, which is, to me, a variation of migraines and is manifested by a lot of dizziness, fatigue or sort of constant, which is going to challenge the woman in her family situation, but also in her professional life. And so it’s going to be really hard for her to manage and also feel listened to because there’s just no real solution aside of medication.

Diane Ducarme [00:14:51]

And so that’s going to make the woman feel very isolated. And so she’s going to start to learn to fake that she’s fine. She’s going to try to fake as much as possible that it’s fine. Her husband and children will know because they know her intimately, but with her friends and co workers, she might get away with it if they don’t have too much empathy.

Leanne Vogel [00:15:11]

Yeah, I mean, when do we learn to fake how we’re feeling? I don’t know, I feel like I learned that really early on in life of just like, suck it up and get her done.

Diane Ducarme [00:15:21]

Push through.

Leanne Vogel [00:15:22]

Exactly. So is it hormone fluctuations that are causing these issues? Like, I know that this is such a loaded question because root causes are vast, depending on the circumstance. But when it comes to the ladies that you’ve connected with, what do you, what do you feel are the top root cause issues around? These migraines?

Diane Ducarme [00:15:46]

Yeah, absolutely. So in order to understand them, I always go east and west, and I’ll start with the west. Actually. There’s an organ like that has been identified quite recently. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the interstitium.

Leanne Vogel [00:16:00]

No, I don’t think so.

Diane Ducarme [00:16:01]

So this is a really recent find. And I find that the west is not really owning completely yet because it’s really disturbing. So about a couple of years ago in 2015, and then 17, 18, 19, it accelerated. Two doctors, one in Germany, one in the US made an accidental discovery. One, the German one, was looking at how to explain how some cancers infiltrate very fast. The other one was just desiccating bile duct. And both what they found was that there was an additional full network inside the body that is in charge of 25% of the liquids of the body that had gone untouched, unfound and unseen. And they called that organ like system the interstitium.

Diane Ducarme [00:16:54]

And the interstitium looks like you need to imagine spaghetti that are surrounding all of your organs and regulate your digestion as well as your internal temperature. Does that make sense? I’ll just take a pose there.

Leanne Vogel [00:17:07]

Yeah. So it’s sort of like a lymphatic system, but more so around organs.

Diane Ducarme [00:17:13]

Exactly. That’s exactly right. It’s exactly.

Leanne Vogel [00:17:16]

Okay, okay, I’m following you. And it regulates your temperature almost like your thyroid would. Yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay.

Diane Ducarme [00:17:24]

And it helps, it aids digestion. And if you think of your body, it helps with deep hydration. It’s at this, at the core of it, this is deep hydration. And what they discovered still, I’m still in the west for a minute here, they discovered that it’s really exciting. They discovered that it had hormones circulating in there. There was also a lot of collagen and yellic acid. Pardon my French. Yeah, and hyaluronic acid.

Leanne Vogel [00:17:52]

Yeah, yeah.

Diane Ducarme [00:17:53]

These liquids, they were sticky and yellow. And in the west, this is where we are now, where we’ve discovered the system. And we know the system must play a lot of roles, but we’re not sure which ones. And we know that this is the way cancers can infiltrate the body and take control over the body very fast. Okay, so now this is what we’ve discovered in the west, in the east, we’ve known this for thousands of years. The system is what is regulating the yin. When I go through perimenopause, I start to dry. Yeah, it’s fascinating because basically this research validated, that’s why it’s currently not overly talked about.

Diane Ducarme [00:18:34]

And so the yin in traditional Chinese medicine, Eastern concept, is a concept of inside of your body. And in order for your body to perform, you need to have really fine liquids that will irrigate your bowel movements, that will be part of your menstruation, and that will irrigate your brain. So now if you think of the gut brain axis, and if you go to the vagus nerve and imagine the vagus nerve, such as a big tree that plants its roots around your small, large intestine, around your stomach, around your heart, around your lungs, then form larger roots along your spine and sort of plugs in like a Tesla in your brain in a way that we don’t fully comprehend yet. I would like to think, and we describe a lot in the west, the vagus nerve, neck and below, but not so much that interconnection with the brain and which organ corresponds to what part of the brain, because it’s so complex. But if you think of that as a tree with a really dense foliage, then the roots need irrigation that are linked to that system. And when that system dries, then the brain complains. And if you have a genetic predisposition for migraines and that you have that dryness, your genes. And there’s a brilliant paper written by Elizabeth Loder from Harvard Medical School, who says the.

Diane Ducarme [00:19:49]

The genetic advantage of migraine is evolutionary advantage, sort of that functions like a fire alarm. And I completely agree with her. The file arm is going to kick in to say, hey, dryness, dryness. It’s going to manifest in dizziness, vertigo, et cetera. And so that will come really strong in that stage of life. Now, if you have more inflammation, the yin will be less as well. If you bleed a lot and you have a physical blood volume deficiency, the yin will be less as well, and the brain will complain. And so what you see is a lot of women who suffer from these symptoms and just have that.

Diane Ducarme [00:20:25]

Those liquids, not enough. Now, when you replenish them, you achieve a couple of things. Number one, you achieve mental clarity, peace and love with your brain. Again, that’s spectacular. Number two, you also achieve a much Better digestion again and not so much bloating. When women in that age category feel bloated, they often attribute to something they do too much of or they have too much of, but it’s usually actually a sign of deficiency. So when you were asking, what are some of the reasons why women experience migraines in that age bracket, this is a huge one. Now, medications, what they will do is they will be aiming to kill the pain, but they will add toxicity on the liver that then the yin system needs to help rid of.

Diane Ducarme [00:21:15]

Yeah, with the liver. And so you’re consuming your energy. So if you arrive in perimenopause, you’ve taken a lot of medications, chances are your migraines are just going to be more and more and more and they will be correlated by a chronic constipation that no fiber, no medication can get rid of it. And that leaves the woman in a state where her vagus nerve, her gut brain axis is no longer performing because it’s no longer hydrated. And she will feel that the medication is actually not helping that much.

Leanne Vogel [00:21:45]

I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me. It has my two thumbs up, just like as you were talking. I’m kind of going through the Western to Eastern also. My brain just thinking about, when we are experiencing menopause, we are required to have a balanced liver and balanced adrenals. That’s a big part of it. And we live in a yang dominant world where it’s like, go, go, go, push, push, push. Like, we don’t do a lot of natural yin activities. Would that be part of it too? Of, like, as we reach menopause, our adrenals are burnt out.

Leanne Vogel [00:22:21]

They’re requiring to be more online because they’re going to start, you know, doing all the hormone stuff that your ovaries did at one point. And coming from that Yang existence that we have of the go, go, go, push, push, push. We’re already depleted in our yin energy because the Yang is just so completely, so 100%.

Diane Ducarme [00:22:41]

And you touched on exactly another two root causes of migraines. You talked about the importance of the balance of the liver massive. So in that phase of life, the liver organ is going to reduce in size. Now, when you say liver in Western languages, you always designate the piece of flesh below your right ribcage. When you say liver in Mandarin, so you say gan. Gan means liver gallbladder. All of the irrigation of your tendons, ability to detox a lot of your brain, your temples, your eyebrows, the top of your brain, your eyes, ability to see, well, breast and female hormones, mood hormones and uterus. And so when they say gan, they mean all of that.

Diane Ducarme [00:23:19]

And so that system is in transition in that phase. And from a western perspective, the liver organ reduces in size. And so all of these abilities, ability to detox, ability to produce the yin, ability to produce hormones, etc. Everything goes down. Now, if you overly medicate, on top of that, the level of inflammation of your liver is higher, and so your ability to balance is lower. It’s exactly what you see, because it’s exactly. You can’t prevent your liver function from sort of aging. That’s just a normal process.

Diane Ducarme [00:23:53]

But you can have it age gracefully and in balance. Then you keep it happy. If you hammer it with a lot of substance, it’s just a lot harder. It has a lot more work. It’s overworked. So that’s a cause of migraines. Then you talked about the kidney system. Absolutely.

Diane Ducarme [00:24:10]

The kidney system will also go through change. And as it goes through change, its capacity to deal with stress, which is one of its function with the adrenals, will indeed be reduced. Yeah, completely.

Leanne Vogel [00:24:27]

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Leanne Vogel [00:25:54]

Well, and if you think of the common medications that individuals are prescribed, late 40s, early 50s, beta blockers, a big one that’s going to affect our kidney function and then any sort of statin, which is going to affect liver function. And so you’re coming into this, like, go, go, go lifestyle with two of these top medications affecting two of the top organs that are required. You know what you were talking about in. In the system of liquids and regulating migraines. And you’re already coming into it with a dysregulation of these two essential organs, is what I’m hearing.

Diane Ducarme [00:26:33]

And beta blockers can be prescribed, actually, even for migraines, migraine medication. And look, I’m not a doctor. And when you have an acute problem, you should support your body the best you can in that given moment. And that’s always true. You always need a doctor to validate that. You know, you do an MRI and you do your blood work, and everything is sort of clean and not problematic. In the case of migraines, a lot of different medications that belongs to a lot of different diseases and conditions were administered in the context of migraines because they would sometimes work. Beta blockers is one of them.

Diane Ducarme [00:27:10]

Triptans is another one that will contract the blood vessels, but then antidepressants as well, and sort of a whole plethora of medications that, yeah, are prescribed with that effect. Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:27:23]

So is a fair next question, like, how do we. How do we fix all of this? How do we unpack? Like, I don’t want the woman listening to be like, okay, okay, I got it. I have migraines. My body’s a mess now. Like, what do I do with all this? What do I even. How do I age gracefully with my liver? How do I get the more hydration and replenish these liquids? Like, what. Where do I go from here? What do I do?

Diane Ducarme [00:27:49]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that the first port of call is you need to rule out. You need to confirm these are migraines. And when you do that, you go to a proper doctor and you do your. You do your thing, you do your mi. You rule out that there’s anything else going on. It’s very rare that there is. But, you know, you want to know, and you want to have that reassurance.

Diane Ducarme [00:28:09]

The second thing is then you do things a lot more holistically. So we talk about the liver system and the kidney system, for example, the Kidney system. You talked about, you know, having more yin activities. You talked about, you know, having a bit of downtime, less. Less sort of young, brutal things, but also sometimes less stress, which is one way the liver. You can also say, okay, I’m going to have less sort of liver stimulating foods. And you can, you can decide to say, okay, if my liver and my kidney can work less, I’m going to give them less work. Or you can say through.

Diane Ducarme [00:28:44]

And I do that through foods. I’m going to, through foods stimulate these systems so that they work a lot more and say, hey, dear liver, I really love you. Where you and I like, it’s for a long time, I’m going to really give you a lot of energy. I’m not just going to detox you. I’m going to give you foods and nourishments that will increase your power. And same for the kidney system and then same for the yin. You can re. Increase all of these things.

Diane Ducarme [00:29:09]

Fundamentally, I think you have to fundamentally trust two things that, number one, your body is sound, and number two, it wants to be healthy. And I really want to explain that for a minute because I think that a lot of people, they receive strong diagnostics and they also have a lot of things that are popping up as problems here and there, and they see them as disjointed when they really belong together. When the body has an issue, let’s imagine your kidney system is really weakened and you can’t take too much stress. The kidney system has a lot of functions in the East. If we go back to the east for a minute, it’s your biggest immune system. It’s the defender against cancer. So the body is going to say, but also it has a lot of other things. It has the sense of smell, the sense of hearing, it has the hair, it has the ovulation.

Diane Ducarme [00:29:59]

So it can make a lot of compromises before it has to go all the way to a low immune system. And so when these things, oh, I have sensitivity to sound, I have sensitive to smell, suddenly my hair turned gray or I lose a lot of my hair. You can also trust that your body is not frenetically having symptoms and frenetically doing random stuff. What it’s actually trying to do is instead of having one single big mess in one place, which would be really hard to fix, it’s going to make a lot of small messes in a lot of places. Because if you suddenly meet Leanne and go through something holistic, you can still fix it all. And the body knows that, but it knows that if it does, if it takes the shortcut, things get out of control and then they have something major and big. And then you really need to go west and do the right thing yet again for your body, but in a very different style. Does that make sense?

Leanne Vogel [00:30:53]

It absolutely does. It absolutely does. I have started doing more yin based activities to try to regulate my nervous system. I recently went through a pretty epic like mold sickness situation personally. And when that happens, my nervous system gets dysregulated and I massively go into overdrive. And I find like as simple as like sitting in a quiet corner and breathing. It’s a great yin based activity. Or before bed, I’ll, I’ll like 45 minutes before bed, I’ll just go into my bedroom, lay out my yoga mat, usually on the floor, just so it’s comfortable and I’ll bring like pillows and I’ll just like stretch and listen to music and wow, my sleep has been so much better that now that my nervous system is dysregulated, I’m like, I’m gonna keep this because this is fantastic.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:49]

Like, this is just such a great way to wind down the day. Other type of yin based activities is I’ll listen to, what is it? Beta wave.

Diane Ducarme [00:31:59]

Oh yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:32:00]

Playlist on Spotify. And I’ll go for a walk with my dog who. This only works if you have like a really good dog who doesn’t pull on the leash. And it’s not stressful. Like walking with my dog is super chill. But there are other dogs in the neighborhood which this would not be a chill activity with. But we just go for about an hour long walk before we start the day before we do anything. Like that’s the first thing we do together, her and I, is go for a walk and those little things, like maybe you don’t have an hour, that’s fine, maybe you have five minutes.

Leanne Vogel [00:32:30]

But it really does make a difference of like the stillness aspect. I know for myself personally, because there are a lot of things we can’t change in our lives that are more yang based. Would you agree that those are some like good examples of like yin based activities? If people are just like, I don’t even know what that means.

Diane Ducarme [00:32:48]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, these are, these are terrific. I hear also some people sort of cutting WI fi and trying to have just less electricity surrounding them. And definitely mold will put a lot of stress on the body. Oh yeah, yeah, mold will. Mold for people who have the genetic predisposition for migraines will usually translate into fogginess which is quite different. And they might say, look, I’m not in pain every single day. I don’t have a migraine attack every single day.

Diane Ducarme [00:33:17]

But I have this, that constant fogginess. And this is so unpleasant. But indeed when you do that, when you go in a meditative state, you allow for your body to do its other jobs. It’s a bit like, let’s imagine you have a team of co workers and they’re doing their daily tasks, their operational work, and every day you come back and say, oh, I have an, an urgent email, an urgent task, an urgent. And you constantly disrupt. So the. Okay, sure, we take care of your urgency, sure, we’ll take care of your urgency, sure. But then it means that the daily to do’s get slipped.

Diane Ducarme [00:33:48]

So you want to allow your body to prioritize and do what it thinks it should, that should be done. Yeah. And so I find that when you do sort of softer things, you allow for your body to keep control and reset quite nicely.

Leanne Vogel [00:34:04]

I love that picture of just like giving your body the space to like not be on that urgent lookout for the next thing and just allow it to do what it needs to do. Because you’re right, it is, it is so wise. I have seen some crazy stuff in my practice with clients where they’re like not in a good place at all physically and the body is so resilient. And you’re right, it does want to be balanced. And oftentimes we need to get out of our own way. And sometimes that’s doing less.

Diane Ducarme [00:34:35]

Yeah, completely. Now that being said, I’ll just add a caveat because women who suffer from migraines, they will have that alert system. Oh, if I go out too much, I have a migraine. If I drink alcohol, I have a migraine. If I socialize, I have migraine. If I watch too much my screen time, I have aura. And so little by little they make their lives smaller. And so they start to control their environment in a hyper strong way.

Diane Ducarme [00:35:01]

And in spite of that, they are still in pain. And it’s very frustrating. I don’t, I don’t want to, I really want to acknowledge them as well because they’re probably listening too and thinking, hey, but wait a minute, I do all of these things, all of the above, and still I’m in pain. The body is an incredibly complex system of, we’ve just covered three of them, you know, 50,000 root causes, and there are combinations that can happen. And so sometimes when the body got out of balance and in a vicious circle it really will struggle to resurface on its own, although with a lot of patience, it ultimately would. But sometimes with years of medications and years of pain, a few things need to be reprogrammed, you know, to become what I call the migraine hero. Like someone who has acquired a mastery of their genetics and is just, yeah, really happy and able to live a life free of pain.

Leanne Vogel [00:35:58]

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Leanne Vogel [00:37:47]

With those ladies that you just mentioned. Are there areas that you could kind of lead them down a little bit to kind of give them a clue as to what they should look at next. I know it’s so hard. Like with root root, with proper root cause work, it’s sort of like, like you said, 50,000 different options. But as practitioners, we start to see patterns in certain things, like, are there.

Diane Ducarme [00:38:12]

I think the, you know, when women experience so much migraine, dizziness, et cetera, this is what conditions their life. A better attention to focus is on their bowel movements and trying to fix that. Once your bowel movements are really good, then usually your brain follows. And so if they’re chronically constipated or they have sort of constipation, diarrhea constantly, it’s hard. Good bowel movement is one that comes in the morning, ideally before breakfast in one go. As what is called, from a Bristol chart perspective, a type 4, which is banana like, doesn’t require any wiping. And in the west, we don’t like to talk about poop. Poop is an important topic.

Diane Ducarme [00:38:51]

It is really important in the East. I live in China. In China, everyone talks about it. You know, your colleagues will, you know, explain to you why they’re not coming from work. If, you know, with, you know, great details. And, you know, I love that.

Leanne Vogel [00:39:02]

That’s awesome. I, I’m always talking about poop. My husband hates it so much.

Diane Ducarme [00:39:09]

Oh, I love you do that. I love it. My husband really hates it too. And my kids, like, we have these whispers. I’m like, you know, and I’m trying to teach them, like, you have to observe that stuff. This is your, your basic, you know, was your gut brain axis, was your vagus nerve today capable of doing its basic function? When you have a baby, if they eat and they poop, it was a great day. You know, it was a great day. It’s really hard to have a baby who’s constipated, for example.

Diane Ducarme [00:39:36]

And so really watching that. Yes. And in China, I remember, you know. Yeah. Colleagues mentioning, you know, in a lot of details why they were not coming to work. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I don’t need to know that much. You can just tell me you’re sick. That’s.

Diane Ducarme [00:39:47]

We’re good. We’re good. But, but it’s very cultural and so that’s the ideal. And so trying to refind that is really important. Yeah, it can be tricky. But still, if you, if you try to observe a lot, try to observe, you know, if I, if I eat this, then it’s better. If I eat that, it’s. It’s worse.

Diane Ducarme [00:40:08]

Also, as a spoiler alert, if you’re really constipated, having more fiber will, in the long run make you even more constipated. And I think, you know, like, it’s really trying to understand, trying to have a really balanced diet and not too much fiber. I don’t know if you want to.

Leanne Vogel [00:40:24]

Extend on that or not, but, yeah, it’s interesting. I find for me, and I find everyone’s just a little bit different. I need at least 50 grams of fiber in a day to, like, have good bowel movements. But the type of fiber makes a big difference. Like, if all I had was, like, broccoli and cabbage and rough things, I would never poop. Like, I would be constipated all the time. But I can hit 50 grams of fiber no problem with, like, oats and beans and kiwi and berries and coconut flour. Totally different.

Leanne Vogel [00:40:58]

So, like, fiber isn’t always just fiber. I know that when. When I was doing the mold illness stuff, I really ramped up all those foods that I know my body just doesn’t do well with. But I knew I needed for mold. And after about two weeks, I was like, I’m not doing this anymore. This is not working for my bowel movements. Because you need proper bowel movements to get rid of mycotoxins and to move around estrogen, if you have excess estrogen, and all of those issues can be at the root cause of your migraines. So there are individuals who do better on, like, low fiber.

Leanne Vogel [00:41:34]

They can’t do fiber. At least for me. My goal is always 50 grams. And it’s the type of fibers, for me that really make the big difference. Like, I. Raw kale would ruin me. I could not even.

Diane Ducarme [00:41:46]

Yeah, and I think you nailed it. That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. Yeah. Like, some people would say, oh, because I’m constipated, I’m going to take, like, cubes of, you know, sort of fabricated fiber, and if it may get the job done that day. But you see what you gain. You don’t see what you lose. And essentially, those types of fibers are not digested by gastric juices.

Diane Ducarme [00:42:08]

They go through, and so they make gastric juices redundant. And the less you have those, the less you digest next. So. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. Exactly the way you do that. But yeah. So looking at your bowel movements, I think that would be. That would be a good activity and just, you know, taking the time for these things to happen.

Diane Ducarme [00:42:26]

Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:42:27]

Yes. Is there anything that you feel like we didn’t touch on when it comes to migraines that you feel you want to leave the listener with, that you feel like we didn’t cover?

Diane Ducarme [00:42:38]

I mean, we’ve covered pretty much everything. I think the one thing I want to say is it’s complicated. We take care of Doctors of nutritionists, of pharmacists, of nurses. We’ve had really old professions and the reason why that happened is because it’s just so complicated. So never be ashamed to struggle to read your brain. It is a complicated dashboard. Don’t feel ashamed. This is hard.

Diane Ducarme [00:43:07]

This is hard work. And. Yeah. Do you see what I mean? I really want to say that.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:13]

Absolutely. It’s so different. I can think of just a couple of clients as well as myself with the pain. Like. Like my migraines come on due to stress because of an issue in my neck and they can flare and it’s terrible. And so all my stuff is more structural, like making sure that even when I’m sitting on this podcast, the camera is directly straight. I’m not bending my neck. When I’m doing pull ups, I always have to make sure that my neck is in the right position, like my pillow.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:44]

And everything is more structural around my neck. And as long as I keep everything structurally good and I keep stress low, I’m good. Whereas I have a client that she had significant metal toxicity. Her liver was totally sideways. And we overcame her debilitating migraines by getting the metals out of her day to day, getting them out of her mouth, getting her liver moving and working. And now she doesn’t have migraines anymore. More like two. Very similar.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:15]

Like the way we presented was very similar. Very similar type of migraine. Absolutely. World’s difference in how you address it, like completely.

Diane Ducarme [00:44:26]

I love that you bring those two examples. That’s exactly right. I mean, that’s it. Completely. Like, that’s, that’s why the one word feels absurd is like yours should be called something different to hers.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:37]

Absolutely right.

Diane Ducarme [00:44:39]

Doesn’t make sense. And. And the reality is the medication you’d receive or you’d be suggested would be the same, you know? Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:46]

Yeah. And that would not help at all. Like, at all. Yeah, it’s crazy.

Diane Ducarme [00:44:51]

Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:51]

You really gotta dig deep and have patience, just like you were saying. And I know that you have a podcast dedicated to migraines where you just go through all this. Can you tell us a little bit about what that structure is like and what your intention is around your show?

Diane Ducarme [00:45:06]

Yes. So it’s called the Migraine Heroes podcast and there’s three types of heroes that we interview. One is health heroes. So people who’ve had amazing journeys and the intent is exactly. To illustrate what you’ve said is. It’s one word. Yes. It’s very, very different situations.

Diane Ducarme [00:45:23]

But when you listen to that, you have a couple of feelings. The first one is, wow, I’m not alone. Like, this is an uninstagramable life and this person went through hell, and it’s such a beautiful ending. The second one is it gives hope. And the third one is, I think it helps me convey how different we take care of everyone else, like, the same way. It’s not like that woman you took care of. You said, oh, here’s how I do it. And that works.

Diane Ducarme [00:45:49]

So if it works for me, must work for you. The second type of hero I interview are community heroes, people who suffer themselves and have dedicated their entire life to forming communities, helping people navigate the disease. And the third type of heroes are artists who use art as a therapy to help them cope with pain. Yes. So it’s beautiful, beautiful show of incredible lives.

Leanne Vogel [00:46:15]

That’s incredible. Where can people connect with you, learn more about your show? Like, all the places that they can make sure that they interact with you?

Diane Ducarme [00:46:24]

So on two things. The first is we have a brand new app on the app store, which is called Migraine Heroes, and there’s a freemium, and it’s just to track. And then we have an automated service where if you track and we can start to orientate you to what you should be doing for your migraines and say, hey, based on everything we’ve seen in the world in the last five years, this is how you might get luckier. And if it’s incredibly debilitating, it’s really taking over your life and your relationships and your work, then we have services still in app, but with human interactions, et cetera. And so this is a Migraine Heroes app. We also have a website which is called mynectahealth.com where you have all of that and you can take a test. That test is about 100 questions. And I think when you take that test, it really starts to highlight and help you make connections.

Diane Ducarme [00:47:17]

You can take the test from the app as well. It starts to help you see, oh, wait a minute. I have migraines and I also have pcos. Or I have migraines and I also have endometriosis. Or I have migraines and I also have anxiety. I have migraines and I have adhd. I have migraines and I have a leaky gut. You start to notice, what if my migraine issue was my gut issue when my migraine was just a dashboard signaling the gut issue? And so as you start to form these connections and understand intellectually, then you know this can be done with you and not done to you.

Diane Ducarme [00:47:48]

So along each step of the process, you can understand what’s happening and correct it. And once you do that, then the anxiety you were referring to disappears. And this is where you know, then you’re super happy. And we’re super happy. Just the same way as Leanne. You’re happy every day because of the job that you do.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:06]

Exactly. Oh, this was so good. I am so glad we connected. As you were speaking, I was like nodding my head like, yes, I agree. It’s so good to have individuals on the show that, that I get to learn from too. So thank you so much for coming on today.

Diane Ducarme [00:48:21]

Oh, thank you so much for having me. And thank you for guiding women you know in the right direction. I think this is much, much, much needed by society.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:30]

If you enjoyed our time with Diane, you can find her by going to.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:34]

Your favorite podcast player wherever you are.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:37]

Right now and look for Migraine Heroes.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:40]

That’s her website. You can also find her at Migraine.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:42]

Heroes app app on your Play Store.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:46]

And I’m excited to chat with you next week for another episode. We’ll see you then. Bye.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:55]

Thanks for listening to the Helpful Pursuit Podcast. Join us next Tuesday for another episode of the show. If you’re looking for free resources, there are a couple of places you can go. The first to my blog, healthfulpursuit.com where you’re going to find loads of recipes. The second is a free parasite protocol that I’ve put together for you that outlines symptoms, testing and resources to determine whether or not you have a parasite, plus a full protocol to follow to eradicate them from your life if you need to. That’s available at healthfulpursuit.com parasites and last but certainly not least, a full list of blood work markers to ask your.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:32]

Doctor for so that you can get.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:34]

A full picture of your health. You can grab that free resource by going to healthfulpursuit.com labs. The helpful pursuit Podcast, including show notes and links, provides information in respect to healthy living recipes, nutrition and diet and is intended for informational purposes only. The information provided is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor is it to be construed as such. We cannot guarantee that the information provided on the Healthful Pursuit Podcast reflects the most up to date medical research. Information is provided without any representation or warranties of any kind. Please consult a qualified health practitioner with any questions you may have regarding your health and nutrition program.

The post Migraine Relief with Diane Ducarme first appeared on Healthful Pursuit.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:00]

I never thought that I would use my OURA ring as much as I do for just determining nervous system function. But when your pulse is elevated and your HRV is low, that is a sign that your nervous system is massively dysregulated. And that is just like a fight or flight situation that’s challenging to get out of, especially in mold. And the other concern you have with acute mold situations is master cell activation, which happens quite quickly after an exposure and can cause this cascade that gets real ugly, real fast and super not fun.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:41]

Hey, My name is Leanne and I’m fascinated with helping women navigate how to.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:45]

Eat, move and care for their bodies.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:47]

This has taken me on a journey from vegan keto high protein to everything in between. I’m a small town holistic nutritionist turned three time international bestselling author turned functional medicine practitioner offering telemedicine services around the globe to women looking to better their.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:03]

Health and stop second guessing themselves.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:06]

I’m here to teach you how to.

Speaker C [00:01:07]

Wade through the wellness noise to get.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:09]

To the good stuff that’ll help you achieve your goals.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:11]

Whether you’re seeking relief from chronic ailments, striving for peak performance, or simply eager to live a more vibrant life, this podcast is your go to resource for actionable advice and inspiration. Together we’ll uncover the interconnectedness of nutrition, movement, sleep, stress management and mindset, empowering you to make informed choices that support your unique health journey. Think of it as quality time with your bestie mixed with a little med school so you’re empowered at your next doctor visit. Get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn about your body and how to care for it healthfully. Join me as we embrace vitality, reclaim our innate potential, and discover what it truly means to pursue healthfulness.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:04]

Hello. Hello and welcome to another episode. We’re doing something a little bit different today. It has been super rainy and this is the only time that I have to record today’s episode and if I.

Speaker C [00:02:15]

Don’T get my steps in on my.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:17]

Indoor treadmill, it’s not going to happen. So I have my desk set up with my treadmill underneath my little walking stand up desk treadmill set up and I’m hoping that you can’t hear me walking and maybe huffing and puffing a little bit as we do today’s episode. This is my helpful pursuit. If I don’t get my steps in, it’s just so lame. So here we are and we’re gonna walk and talk together and probably you’re doing some other Activity like doing laundry or maybe you’re on a walk too. So we’re gonna walk together and chat about acute mold exposure. So if you joined us on the last episode, November 5th, episode 498, I was talking about my travels and spending over a month in Europe, which was overall a huge challenge. Like when I get together with my girlfriends and they ask me how the trip was, I’m like, I wouldn’t do it again.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:12]

Like that. I was very lonely. But I’m glad that I did it. But there are a lot of challenges with that. But the beautiful thing is that I came home fully prepared for what was about to blow up in my face. And had I not gone on that trip and been challenged to take things one moment at a time, really get out of my comfort zone, really, really trusting in God in every single aspect of my day to day, I couldn’t have done the last couple of weeks that happened over here at our home. So, spoiler alert, I get back from Europe and I get exposed to mold. So let’s go through the full timelines that you can understand things.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:58]

I also want to talk about the difference between acute and chronic exposure even before we get started. Let’s actually do that right now. So many, many, many years ago, about 10 years ago, I was exposed to mold, didn’t know it, reacted very poorly to it, lived in that mold for years, and continued to feel absolutely terrible. That is a chronic mold exposure. Okay, we’re not covering that area today. What we’re covering is all is well, all is good in your home. And then all of a sudden you find out that there’s an acute situation that occurred in your home and you got to deal with it. Okay? And so that’s what happened to me.

Leanne Vogel [00:04:37]

And the two protocols, how we address what we’re doing for the body especially is going to be very, very different. In the case of a chronic mold exposure, there’s a lot of work that needs to be done over months and months and months and in some cases over a year to just balance the body, detox the body, regulate an inflammatory response and really, really get yourself stabilized, both mast cells and nervous system. And there’s a lot of stuff to it. And so I do that a lot with my clients, individuals that have been exposed to water damaged materials over months and months and months and years and years and years and kind of just working through exactly what’s happening and how to regulate the body. And so that’s a more heavy lift. Okay. Not saying it’s impossible. I mean I do this day in, day out with my clients and my private practice.

Leanne Vogel [00:05:29]

But what we’re talking about today is you’re healthy, all is good, perhaps your drainage pathways are already open, and life is fantastic. And all of a sudden, there’s a leak in your home that wasn’t there before, and you have to address it. Okay, so I’ll give you kind of a timeline of what occurred. So right before I went to Europe, probably about two weeks before, I did a air quality test, which I do every six months or so. I started doing this when we lived on boats because boats will get a lot of water damage all the time. It’s, like, ongoing. And so I was constantly assessing areas for water damage, assessing the air quality, and then we were coming up with plans on how to address fully without getting exposed and all those things. And it was just a very normal part of living on a boat.

Leanne Vogel [00:06:23]

And so when we moved into a home in early 2024, I decided to continue assessing air quality. And so even before we signed our lease, I had asked our landlord if I could test the air before we even signed the lease to make sure that it was safe. And I continue to test the air every, like, four to six months or so. And I also check for visible water damage. Okay. Like once a week on Fridays, I just walk around the house, look in areas, and assess to see if there’s water coming in. I also, from our boating days, have a FLIR camera, which I use once a week also just checking for cold spots in the wall. Now, of course, this isn’t an exact science, and especially in warm areas, it can be challenging because the water and the temperature of the walls is quite similar.

Leanne Vogel [00:07:18]

And I found it to be challenging to determine unless. Unless you can see the water coming in, the floor doesn’t really help all that much. But I continue to use that and my moisture meter, just as, you know, insurance against making sure that I’m not breathing in or we’re not exposed to things that we don’t need to be exposed to. So right before I left, I did an air quality test. My preferred air quality test is from a company called called GOT Mold. You can actually get it on Amazon. I will include a link in the show notes today for actually, like, all the things. I’ll just make, like, a little resource for you.

Leanne Vogel [00:07:55]

So we’ll include the GOT Mold testing in there. And yeah, so I did that a couple of weeks before I left. It came back, it was fine. I did my visual inspections as I normally do. Everything was fine. I Go to Europe. I come back and one of the first things I did was turn on all of my filters. My husband Kevin hates my air doctors and my Jasper units and like he just hates the noise.

Leanne Vogel [00:08:21]

He hates, he hates them. So when I leave, when I’m gone for any amount of time, he’s constantly turning them off and he just can’t sleep as well with them on. And so when I’m gone he’s like, yes, I can sleep without them on. So I turn on the air filters and I walked around the home and I checked everything and everything looked fine. That night I woke up around 2am I was having a hard time sleeping. I thought it was just because I traveled a whole bunch. Like you know how it is traveling from Europe. You’re just like a little bit off your, your routine.

Leanne Vogel [00:08:53]

And I had been hiking a lot in Europe, so I thought, you know, maybe I’m just a little bit frazzled. And I woke up middle of the night and my hands were hurting really bad and I thought it was just because altitude and maybe I had a little bit of edema and I didn’t think much of it. And this symptom progressed quite considerably over the next couple of days to that Sunday when somebody went to shake my hand at church. It hurt so bad that I pulled away and was like, if this is what arthritis feels like, oh my goodness, that is the most painful. And I mean she was, she was an elderly lady. Like she didn’t squeeze my hand super intensely. So I knew that there was something wrong. And in my mind I had been on vitamin A and a couple of bone marrow supplements to help some neck pain and other things I had going on previously.

Leanne Vogel [00:09:46]

So I just thought, okay, well maybe it’s a fat soluble vitamin that’s just displaying as excess. Because when you’re taking vitamins A, D, E, K, how you know that you are taking too much or you’ve kind of pushed the threshold as you can get a lot of body pains. That’s happened to me with vitamin D and vitamin A and K and E in the past. And so this felt very similar. So I dropped my vitamin A, I dropped my vitamin K and it didn’t change. And fast forward two days, Coconut and I, our dog are sitting on the couch and out of the corner of my eye I see these bubbles on the wall and I’m like, oh boy, oh boy. This is the night before the hurricane was set to come to Florida. I had already committed to having a friend over who broke her leg and needed someplace to Stay.

Leanne Vogel [00:10:35]

Cause she was nervous about the home that she was staying in during the storm. And I said, yeah, like, come over. That’s fine. You know, we have a generator and all the things. And so I feel very confident in the home that we have. So, yeah, come on over. So the night before she’s planning to come, I see this bubbling on the wall. And I remembered that there was a southern wind that came in that morning with rain.

Leanne Vogel [00:10:58]

And that’s very rare for this area, a southern wind with rain. And so I thought, oh, boy, I need to check the whole southern wall, the house. And sure enough, all the windows on the south side were leaking. And so I contacted my landlord, and here’s the thing. If you own your own home, there are things that you can do that somebody who’s renting just cannot. Nine times out of ten, your landlord will just say, yeah, yeah, I’ll have somebody come by and, you know, shave down the bubbles and repaint it. And that’s not going to address the situation. And unfortunately, when you don’t own your home, you’re kind of at a limit of what you can do because it’s not your place.

Leanne Vogel [00:11:39]

And so I knew getting back into homes, it was our first time in over, I want to say, eight years living in a house. We had lived in boats and RVs. And I knew that I wanted to have a landlord that was awesome. And I really felt good about the landlord that we chose. I mean, we chose this house, but we also chose the landlord. And he just. Oh, he rose to the occasion. I.

Leanne Vogel [00:12:04]

I couldn’t have done the last couple of weeks without him being awesome. I. I don’t even know what I would have done had he said, yeah, yeah, we’ll just get somebody out to paint it. Well, I would have told him, okay, great, I’m not paying my rent. I’m leaving. So I’m just so glad that it worked out. But I know in. In many cases, we don’t have a lot of bargaining ability when we’re renters.

Leanne Vogel [00:12:28]

So as I share this story, I fully realize that I’m one of the lucky ones, like one of the 5 or 10% where the landlord is willing to put in the right work to get the job done. And I’ve found having owned properties and rented properties in the past, it’s always better. And you’re going to have a far better experience if you rent from an individual who owns this home that was their home, and they’re renting it out because they’re moving somewhere. They got a job somewhere. They’re going to be far more responsible with their home because it is their home, as opposed to a company that owns multiple properties. There’s less emotion in it, there’s less care in it. Generally speaking, that has been my experience. And so when we were looking for a home, understanding the severity of mold and water damage and issues that can come up and storms and just the complexities of life, that it’s good to have somebody who cares for the home properly and if there are issues, will likely do the right thing.

Leanne Vogel [00:13:28]

So I fully understand that I was very lucky to have a landlord that was like, yeah, I’ll get somebody out there, like, immediately. And so here I am, night before the storm. Guys come over and immediately I start asking trick questions of the remediators so that I can understand whether or not they’re equipped to deal with the situation. And so many of the questions that I asked were like, I said trick questions, like, what are you going to do with the drywall? Do you just, like, take it off, dry it and put it back? Or like, of course they’re not going to do that. They’re going to ideally take out all the wet things, including the wet wood. And I said, well, do we care about, you know, the air quality while we’re taking out the stuff? Or like, how does that work? Like, does the stuff, does the dust get in the air? Just asking silly questions, pretending like I didn’t know what I was talking about, which I find diffuses the experience. If you come in all hot and heavy, you know, saying, like, I know everything about mold and this is what we need to do, I often find that it’s not welcomed as much as just being, like, super humble and asking questions. And he aced all the questions.

Speaker C [00:14:49]

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Speaker C [00:15:21]

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Leanne Vogel [00:16:09]

Go.

Speaker C [00:16:11]

For your free sample pack with any order. Again, that’s drink lmnt.comkdp so a couple.

Leanne Vogel [00:16:21]

Of things that I was looking for in a remediation company was one, understanding that the water damaged materials are dangerous. You when you’re cutting through them, when you’re having them in your home, when you’re carting them to the trash, it’s important to think of them like a contaminant that you don’t want to get on anything or around anyone. Preparing the space is also really important. Making sure that that contaminant stays as far away as possible from the homeowner and even the workers themselves. Another piece is how to prepare the area before you close it back up. Like, are they going to spray it with antibacterial spray, otherwise known as fogging? The concern there. And a lot of companies will do this, a lot of rental companies will do this. They’ll just say, yeah, if we have a mold problem, we’re going to fog the home and that’ll stop the mold from growing.

Leanne Vogel [00:17:12]

That’s not entirely true, unfortunately. Just like your body has a microbiome, your home has a microbiome. And introducing these antibacterial agents is very much like introducing a antibiotic into the body. And it can kill not only the bad guys, but also the good guys and really affect your home’s balance. And so that was another piece. I really made sure that they didn’t do fogging. I wanted to make sure that they had negative pressure on the space, meaning that when they were cutting through things that dust wasn’t going to come out into the living space. Okay, so why, like, why do I care about this? Why can’t they just cut open stuff, do what they need, get the water damaged stuff out and be done with it? Well, when materials are wet, it’s going to, in 24 to 48 hours, create mold.

Leanne Vogel [00:18:07]

And the mold is not necessarily the problem. The mycotoxins that the mold creates, that’s the problem. So those mycotoxins are going to pretty immediately affect our mitochondrial function. We’re going to deal with brain fog and difficulty focusing vision or hearing problems even. We can deal with chronic fatigue, headaches, nosebleeds, breathing problems, lower body temperature. Our thyroid can start to act out pretty quickly. For those that already have thyroid issues, inflammation. So with my story, just waking up that first night being like, oh, my goodness, my hands.

Leanne Vogel [00:18:46]

Oh, they were so painful. And I just didn’t put two and two together until I saw that water damage. Like, oh, right, yeah, no, totally. That. That’s because of the water issue. We can wake up tired even after we’ve had six or more hours of sleep. Our eyes can be really sensitive to bright or direct light. And then we get into some of the mycotoxin symptoms.

Leanne Vogel [00:19:06]

Okay, so those are going to be things like stuffy nose and sinus pain, especially rashes are a thing, eczema, chronic sibo issues, bloating, difficulty sleeping. So if you remember from my story, that first night, I’m waking up at 2am like, this is so not like me at this part of my cycle. Especially as I near my period about days 25 deplete, I have a really hard time sleeping. I always have. And so I was on, like, day five of my cycle, and I’m like, there’s something wrong here. This is not normal. Anxiety and depression can show up pretty quickly, actually. Of course, you can experience a mildewy smell in your home, but just because you don’t smell, that doesn’t mean there isn’t mold growing.

Leanne Vogel [00:19:56]

So I want to preface that ongoing sinus infections, rather, are a key piece here. And I’ve struggled with sinus infections ongoing. I’m very, very sensitive to my environment, and it can be very, very challenging to use the sinus infections as a red flag to the environment that I’m in, because I could walk into the post office, be there for 10 minutes, and then get a sinus infection. And so I usually don’t use it as an indicator of, oh, my goodness, my home has mold, because I could get it from anywhere at any time pretty quickly. And so that’s why mold and the mycotoxins that they create can be such a danger. And when it comes to your drainage pathways. So we talked about drainage before on the podcast. Basically, think of your body like a sponge.

Leanne Vogel [00:20:49]

And when our drainage pathways are blocked, we can’t wring out the toxicities that we would normally be able to wring out as a little sponge. That’s really good at it really easily. So drainage pathways include your sweat, your urine, your poop, your lymph Your breath. Okay, so your liver is part of that too. It is influenced by your lymph as well. Those two are closely tied. And so signs that you’re having drainage dysfunction issues include things like constipation or skin issues or edema. Like I said, like I thought, maybe this is edema.

Leanne Vogel [00:21:26]

What’s going on here? Waking up between one or four, that’s usually related to the liver, chronic inflammation, heart palpitations, being sensitive to light, sound, or even sensitive to emf. Having morning stiffness or breathing or lung issues. You can kind of hear my breath is not ideal one because I’m walking on a 12% incline walking pad while we’re having this conversation. But also my lungs are not awesome, having been exposed to this over the last couple weeks. So I’m trying my best. Another big sign of drainage issues has to do with puffy eyes. Like, if you wake up and the bags in your eyes are pretty puffy and it takes yourself a little while to kind of regulate, that can be another sign of drainage issues. And so because we don’t live in a vacuum and we have to understand that these sorts of things are going to happen in our life, the key thing that you can do to prepare for an acute water damage situation, which is bound to happen in your life either at work or church or home, is to make sure that your drainage is open.

Leanne Vogel [00:22:28]

So when I started this work, when I kind of shifted much of my work from just basic holistic nutrition, meal plans, macro balances, which I still do a ton of, into more blood work and functional wellness and looking into mold, illness and parasite issues and these root causes that are keeping us sick. A big, big, big, big thing that was really important to me from the get go is making sure that my drainage is always open. Because if you are a supple little sponge that’s able to squeeze out the things that you’re exposed to, you’re going to have a far easier time when it comes to these acute situations. And so when I saw the bubbles on the wall and I thought about having my friend over and while all this stuff is going on and she had no place to go, I thought, okay, well, I’ve kept up with my drainage practices. I should be okay. I should be fine. As long as they prepare things properly, that was a big. That’s a big part.

Leanne Vogel [00:23:27]

As long as they prepare things properly, everything should be fine. Because I had kept up with once a week, coffee enemas once a week, sauna once a week, castor oil pack, once a week, vibration plate. And so I felt pretty confident in my drainage pathway work that once I saw the water damage, I was like, okay, I’m going to get myself on a binder, I’m going to get myself on more drainage support and we’re just going to see how this goes. Now, when it comes to binder support in a acute mold situation, assuming that you’ve already done root cause work, like, this is not your first time taking a binder, I would probably do something like Ultra binder from Quicksilver. I love that binder. For mold situations. Fantastic. Or if you’re new to binders, this is your first time you have an acute mold situation.

Leanne Vogel [00:24:19]

I would go with like biotoxin binder from Selcor. Selcor doesn’t allow just a regular human being to go on and like order their products. So I’m going to include my Selcor link in the show notes so you can check it out. And myself personally, I have little kits at home for acute situations that happen. Like if I get a weird bug bite or a tick bite or it’s actually referred to as a tick sting if we want to get technical, but let’s leave it alone or I get an acute mold situation. I have all of these supports in my home, so when this happens, I’m not freaking out like, oh my gosh, when am I going to get my binding agent and how long is it going to take to get to my home? I already have it all on board. So I just went into my cabinet, found the stuff and started taking it. So a binder is really essential and then drainage pathway support.

Leanne Vogel [00:25:11]

So when it comes to mold, the best drainage pathway support I think is Tadka. Pretty hardcore. Not ideal if you’ve had gallbladder stones. And I would avoid just because of the complexities with that. But another great option which I personally love using and I respond really well to is KL support from Selcor. And this supports both kidney and liver and it’s a well balanced supplement. Super. Love it.

Leanne Vogel [00:25:39]

So those are the two items that I started taking immediately after I saw the water damage. Now after I spoke to the mold inspector dude, I felt very confident that he would do a really good job. My landlord asked, like, hey, do you approve this guy? Like, my landlord knows what I do for a living. He knows that I’ve walked through this process with many, many, many clients. And so I said, yeah, like, he seems like the real deal. I’m cool to use him if you are. And so they got to work, they tented off everything. They started cutting through the drywall.

Leanne Vogel [00:26:11]

And that’s kind of when things went a little sideways and we started arguing a lot, because I chose to move as much as I could of our furniture out of the spaces so that it wasn’t covered in the dust, because the dust has the mold, and the mold spores create the mycotoxins. And, like, why wouldn’t you move that stuff out if you could? So I frantically, quickly, and effectively and efficiently moved as much as I could out of the space. Most of it went into our bedroom. Because I created positive pressure, meaning I was able to, with fans, push the air from the bedroom over into the common spaces and ideally in the workspaces. What I wanted them to do was create negative pressure, meaning the air that’s in those spaces stays in those spaces or goes outside so it doesn’t go back into the common area. Well, they didn’t set up the negative pressures correctly. And so when I came back, there was dust everywhere. And the following day, when they were cutting through the wood, after I had argued with them, left, right, sideways, and inside out.

Leanne Vogel [00:27:19]

And I said, like, we really need negative pressure. I was working in the bedroom. I had to keep up with clients while this was going on, because I run my business, and I have commitments like everybody does. And all of a sudden, I was conversing with a client, and my right side beside my mouth started pulling back, almost like a muscle twitch, but it, like, got stuck in place, and it kind of went down my neck, and it was just really tight. And I’m like, oh, boy. Like, that’s a neurological symptom right there. And so I went outside to where they were working, and sure enough, they were cutting through the wet wood without having that negative pressure running with the door open, like, just wide open with air just flowing everywhere. And it was enough for me to have a symptom.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:09]

And that. That kind of triggered the nervous system response in me quite quickly. Like, I was fine for days before, but as soon as they cut into that wood and as soon as it wasn’t prepared properly, that’s when my nervous system took over and got dysregulated. And the sign of that initially was that pull on the side of my mouth. And then my pulse increased quite high. And that night, my HRV was, like, 10 or 12, like, just tanked. And we’ve talked about HRV in the past. I definitely recommend, if you’re new to this concept and you want to understand how you can use HRV to understand so much about your body, I highly recommend checking out episode 489 labeled HRV and Vagus Nerve.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:57]

Fabulous stuff. I never thought that I would use my oura ring as much as I do for just determining nervous system function. But when your pulse is elevated and your HRV is low, that is a sign that your nervous system system is massively dysregulated. And that is just like a fight or flight situation that’s challenging to get out of, especially in mold. And the other concern you have with acute mold situations is mast cell activation, which happens quite quickly after an exposure and can cause this cascade that gets real ugly real fast and super not fun. For myself, it shows up primarily as fatigue, flushing. Like, I’ll just feel like all of a sudden my body gets, like, really hot and red and just, like, overblown. I can have ear pain primarily, like, behind my ear.

Leanne Vogel [00:29:53]

My throat can get itchy or just my skin will get itchy, like, with the. With the, like, overwhelming heat. Okay, so those can be signs of a mast cell activation. I want to go through some other common symptoms that you know what’s happening there. So Sweating, weight gain, weight loss. Though those do take some time to obviously show up. Rashes, appetite changes, ear congestion, like ears that are constantly plugged, a burning mouth, dental decay can be one. This is obviously over time of just like being stuck in mast cell activation.

Leanne Vogel [00:30:30]

A constant sore throat, postnasal drip, swollen lymph, lymph nodes, painful lymph nodes, dizziness, sleep apnea, wheezing, trouble catching your breath, weakness, vertigo, feeling queasy, like, nauseous, vomiting, diarrhea. Acid reflux can also be part of it. Tics, tremors, seizures, unexplained mood changes, Anxiety, panic, depression, anger. Easily bruised or easy to bleed, like when you hit yourself. And it just, like, keeps on coming. Slow healing, getting infections easily, food sensitivities, chemical sensitivities. So these are signs of mast cell activation. Then we get into, like, Leon, what do you even.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:15]

What do you even mean by mast cell activation? What’s going on there? Well, mast cells often get a bad reputation. Oftentimes you’ve heard of mca. Maybe you have, maybe you haven’t. But when the nervous system is dysregulated, oftentimes the mast cells kind of like, go hand in hand with that or either. Or, like, the mast cells can then get dysregulated, and then your. Your nervous system will as well. Now, the mast cells live in the fascia, and oftentimes when they’re immediately triggered, they will cause, like, itchiness and puffiness right away. And so oftentimes, people will think, oh, well, I’m having an allergic reaction.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:57]

It is involving the immune system, but it becomes this dysregulated space that your body just stays in because the mast cells of the immune system have chemical signaling, which then go through the whole body, and you’re kind of just, like, stuck and, like, locked in to this area. Previous, when I had mast cell activation, a big, big symptoms symptom, rather, that I had all the time, was when I’d eat, I’d get sleepy because the histamines would cause me to get sleepy. And so it was like an ongoing problem. And so usually histamine and mast cell activation will come hand in hand. And the problem with mast cells and this ongoing immune system dysregulation is that we become Th2 dominant, meaning we have chronic inflammation, and therefore we’re not able to kill pathogens. So the main reason why being exposed to mold ongoing then causes parasite infections and sibo and your gut becomes a total mess is because your body, your immune system is so dominant in TH2 instead of balanced in both TH1 and TH2, that you just become overly inflamed and unable to kill off pathogens. So the root cause behind this mast cell activation, where the immune system gets locked in place and just highly reactive, which then causes a ton of symptoms, we need to support the nervous system, because usually it gets dysregulated because of the nervous system, and we need to bring in mast cell supplementation, and then we need to get to the root cause that caused both of these. Okay.

Leanne Vogel [00:33:35]

So in the case of an acute mold situation, you have the mold which is causing the symptoms overall, because the mycotoxins are toxins to the body. Okay. Then your nervous system gets dysregulated, which then causes your immune system to get dysregulated. And so to get through all of this, you need to address the root cause, which in this case is mold. Okay? So when it came to my nervous system starting to get involved, I wanted to address, obviously, nervous system regulation and then mast cell regulation so I could bring my body back into balance. So, thankfully, because I had done so much drainage work leading up to this acute exposure, I was far better equipped than somebody who’s never done this work. And so if you in the history of your life have dealt with any sort of water damage, you know that it is actually quite a common thing. And if you’re currently dealing with any symptoms of mold issues, I encourage you to do drainage Work to start kind of thinking about water damage, exposure and issues with water damage.

Leanne Vogel [00:34:42]

Because it will affect your body’s ability to regulate nervous system, it will affect your immune system for fighting off pathogens ongoing so you can, you can hear in the acute situation. If left untreated, it will become a chronic situation of your nervous system being dysregulated, meaning you’re not responding to workouts, you’re unable to lose weight, you’re stressed all the time, you’re just dysregulated. Nervous system dysregulation feels very different on different people. But to me it feels like I haven’t slept in 20 days and somebody saying that they’re out of chocolate flavored ice cream when I wanted chocolate flavored ice cream takes me over the edge, like the smallest things which should not be a big deal. And logically I’m like, why am I reacting to this? That is how my nervous system dysregulation presents itself. With also an elevated pulse, really bad hrv, terrible recovery in my workouts, walking is even painful. Like I just want to curl up in the corner and cry or sometimes I don’t even have any feeling left and I just, I want to be there with no one talking to me. So it’s not pleasant.

Speaker D [00:36:01]

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Leanne Vogel [00:37:07]

And so as soon as I saw this water situation, as soon as I knew what we were dealing with, and then I started having that nervous system dysregulation in addition to the binding agent and the drainage supplement, I increased my drainage practices. So for me, coffee enemas work really, really great. I love them, my liver loves them. So I increase those. I increase my castor oil packs, I increase going into the sauna, I increase my lymphatic drainage, and I brought in mast cell support. So for me personally, the best way to support mast cells is through quercetin. I respond really well to quercetin. There are other components that can be used, but I think quercetin is a really, really, really great one for most people.

Leanne Vogel [00:37:55]

Also, if you have MTHFR or issues with methylation, this does take into account because methylation is involved in histamine breakdown. And so we want to make sure that leading into these sorts of issues, you have that kind of dialed in and you understand your B12 defoliate to B6 balance and what’s needed. And so I was stabilizing the mast cells through supplementation. That’s usually how we do it with the immune system. And then I needed to balance my nervous system, which, because this is not new to me because I’ve had to kind of tippy toe around these issues in the past. In fact, my parents and I. My parents, they’re wonderful. I love them.

Leanne Vogel [00:38:38]

I love that God has given us another opportunity to connect because it wasn’t always easy. You know, I was a challenging teenager, as many of us were. And so I’m so glad that I get to spend time with my parents and love on my parents and have a relationship with them again. And my parents are learning how to use, like, Airbnb. And my dad, like, rented this horrible place. We call it the Red Couch place. It was terrible. I walked in and immediately my pulse was elevated and my nervous system got dysregulated.

Leanne Vogel [00:39:10]

And that was kind of the introduction. Wearing my ring for the first time, being exposed to mold, being like, oh, wow, like, I can influence this. I can see my hrv, I can do certain things and my HIV will change. But I really started getting into understanding what influences my HRV positively because the things that influence my HRV positively will help to regulate my nervous system and help me overcome these exposures and even jet lag. It’s like, incredible for overcoming these sorts of issues by regulating the nervous system. So for myself personally, I know that chiropractic works really, really good. So I went to my chiropractor and I told him what was going on and he helped me. Acupuncture works really, really well, and so does somatic Exercises.

Leanne Vogel [00:39:57]

So there are a bunch of exercises online. I’ll include a video of my favorite. But on the go, like on the fly, if I don’t want to do like all the exercises, I don’t know, it takes five minutes, so it’s not epic. But on the fly, I’ll do shaking. So literally you’re just standing and shaking your body all over. And that is enough for me to really get into that nervousness system balance and my pulsetto I was using quite significantly. We talked about that again in episode 489. And so that’s really how you overcome from a physical perspective, the mold situation.

Leanne Vogel [00:40:34]

Another piece I want to highlight is the sinuses. Because when you’re breathing in mold, mold spores, which create mycotoxins, they actually wedge in your sinus and create like a colony of disgustingness. So when I knew that there was mold in the house, when I saw the water damage underneath the windows and immediately started taking my nasal spray, which I do quite regularly anyways, because like I said, I get sinus infections all the time. All the time. And so I’m pretty like well versed at this. And what I found for myself to be really helpful is xylitol spray, which I add frankincense oil to. So frankincense essential oil. This is not for the faint of heart.

Leanne Vogel [00:41:20]

This is not something that I would recommend you just like go out and do on your own. So if you’re just getting started, things like propolis and silver spray work really well. But that’s only going to get to like the little baby parts of your sinus, not like the whole thing like above your forehead and all this stuff. That’s where you get into nebulizing. And so if you want to learn more about that, you can do some Google research and figure it out. I just don’t feel overly comfortable sharing it publicly because I wouldn’t even give this to all of my clients. But that is an option, as is things like Navage or Neti Pots I personally can’t use because it will just give me a further infection or cause a new infection. They always trigger infection for me.

Leanne Vogel [00:42:07]

And yeah, so I think it’s because of my deviated septum that it just causes problems, so I don’t even bother. But if you respond really well to that as soon as you’re exposed to acute mold situation, it’s really helpful to continue to flush out the sinus. And then comes the last piece of kind of the story and the process. If I could do this all over again. And I knew with my little crystal ball that there was going to be a water damage situation. I probably wouldn’t have invited my friend over. She was in a really rough place and needed a place to stay. And I think in the Lord’s provision, it was very much like, I committed to it and then found the water damage a couple hours later.

Leanne Vogel [00:42:49]

And so I was like, I’m going to go forward with this. I shouldn’t have stayed in the home while they were working. I think I would have had a better experience not being here. And so after I got sick, found an Airbnb, I should have asked them to see the property first before I committed to renting it. And I got in there and the humidity was 85% and it was so musty. It was disgusting. Oh, it was so terrible. And after two nights, I just said, like, I can’t stay here.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:20]

I need to leave. I didn’t ask for a refund. I was just like, I can’t stay here. And still they gave me a bad review because I guess I’m challenging. But that was such a bummer because I really, really, really care about my Airbnb reviews. But it is what it is. And I ended up, you know, when you get to the point, like, my nervous system was just so not okay that I got home, my house is a mess. I have no more furniture.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:45]

I had to throw out so much stuff because the guys said they put the rest of it in my safe place. They didn’t. They didn’t cover it. They’re walking through on, like, over my carpets, like my area rugs. When they said that they would roll them up, it was just such a nightmare with them. They just, they knew what they were doing. Like, the head guy, the project manager, knew what he was doing. And then as soon as he left location, the guys that worked for him just did whatever.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:14]

And it was just such a bummer because he knew what he was doing. And I would love to refer a good company because he knew the right thing, which many of them don’t. And it was just such, such an unfortunate thing. But so I come back, all my stuff is. Much of it needed to be trashed because much of it was upholstered and more challenging to clean all the hard surfaces. I was able to either use EC3 cleaner or vinegar with clove oil and just. Oh, my gosh. I’ve never cleaned a house so much in my entire life.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:48]

Like, for floor to ceiling multiple times. This house, you could eat off the floor or walls or ceiling or literally any place for the next couple of weeks because it is so clean. So I decided I’m going to get a tent and I’m going to sleep in the backyard because I can’t even be bothered. I don’t want to be exposed again. I’m exhausted. Coconut, our dog, has been, like, so sweet through this whole process. She just wanted to be with me. And people were saying, you could stay with me, but you can’t bring your dog.

Leanne Vogel [00:45:16]

And I was like, forget it. I’m just gonna sleep in my backyard. And it was perfect. It was so perfect. It was so wonderful. And they finished up the work. I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned and cleaned and washed all of our clothes with vinegar, washed every surface, tossed a whole bunch of stuff that I just couldn’t clean. And that’s not something you need to do.

Leanne Vogel [00:45:41]

It’s just that I chose to do it because of how much dust was on everything that wasn’t properly even covered. Like, covered would have been. I would have played around with covered, but uncovered with construction material on it. I just was like, I. I’m not playing this game for the next couple of months to just feel like trash. And so I’ve been in the home now for five days, feeling pretty good. My HRV has recovered nicely. My pulse is good.

Leanne Vogel [00:46:10]

My nervous system’s good. I’m walking on my treadmill. My lungs are still not ideal. I did get some laryngitis, too, through this process, which is not uncommon for me. That’s kind of my default. My lungs have always been not great. I continue to work on them, but, goodness gracious, they are weak, and that is my weak spot. And we all do have our weak spots, and it’s important to know what those are, to constantly coach them up and support them as best as we can.

Leanne Vogel [00:46:37]

But overall, I feel pretty good. I know that my body could not have handled this a couple of years ago. Not as well as it did. Like, yeah, we did have some issues. I think that if I would have not been in the home while all this was happening, and I would have found a safe place to just lay low for a bit, I think I could have avoided a lot of the nervous system stuff, and I wouldn’t have been here when they cut through things. And I think I. I would have handled things a lot better. But given the circumstances, that just wasn’t an option.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:09]

And Kevin did say, you’re going to regret this. You really need to leave. And I was like, I can. I made a commitment. So here we are. And I definitely learned a lot through the process. When these things happen, it can be helpful to test your mycotoxins to kind of see how your body’s responding. One of the supplements that I chose to take to support myself, especially when the laryngitis started happening, and the sinus stuff, I brought in methylene blue, which is like the one, two punch for me, and the mitochondria just love it.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:38]

And it just regulates myself so well. I love that stuff. And I always forget about it. I always have to be reminded. I’m like, right, yeah, my body loves methylene blue. So when I brought that in, you can’t test your mycotoxins. Being on methylene blue, it really messes up with the results. So I haven’t tested my mycotoxins yet.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:57]

I’m going to give myself another couple days on methylene blue before I take it down. I just want to really support my mitochondria as I start working out and walking and being active again to make sure that I’m just recovering well and not getting too ahead of myself. So I may test my mycotoxin urine to just make sure all is well. I also want to give myself a couple of weeks outside of that super musty, disgusting Airbnb that I was in, because anything that I could potentially dump in the urine could potentially be from that house and not the exposure that I had. And we definitely want to make sure that we’re kind of on the other side of it. But as somebody who’s had this experience a couple of times, I can usually tell when my body has kind of regulated and we’re, like, good to go. And I definitely feel like I’m on the other side of it. The wall is all fixed up.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:44]

It’s like it never happened. I did air quality testing yesterday, actually, so I should have that report back in a couple of days. And I’m hoping that it’s good. If it’s not. I’m not entirely sure what we’re gonna do, but we take it day by day. If my trip to the Azores, hiking by myself for hours and hours and hours taught me anything, it’s that you just need to focus on the next couple of minutes. And when these things happen, it’s really good, especially for your nervous system, to just focus on the next little bit. And so I remember when my mom called on that day when I came back into the house, and I’m like, I don’t have an Airbnb, and the dog is in the backyard, and I have no idea what we’re gonna do.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:23]

She’s like, where are you going to sleep? I’m like, I have no idea. It’s only 2pm I sleep around 10pm so we got lots of time to figure it out. And that’s really how you have to take these things sometimes, because the nervous system itself can just get totally frazzled if you try to take on too much. And so, yeah, that was my acute mold situation. I hope that something in there I shared was helpful for you. I hope my huffing and puffing on my treadmill was not too much for you. I try to get in about 9,000 steps a day, and this morning I just woke up, and it was one of the first days, like, back in the house and just, like, getting organized, and I was like, I don’t want to go for a walk. I just want to have a sleepy morning before I go to the gym.

Leanne Vogel [00:50:05]

So I chose not to walk, which meant that I was down 5,000 steps this afternoon. And so, yay. I got. I got my 5,000 chatting with you right now, which is just so great. I love my standup desk. I love that we got to do this. And I will be sure to include those resources in the show notes, including the somatic exercises that I use, the mold testing, and the cell core code. Should you want to check out some of those supplements that I recommended.

Leanne Vogel [00:50:32]

When it comes to the mold testing, you might hear some people say, no, no, no. Ermi is best. You need an ermi. I have gone back and forth on mold testing and what’s best at the end of the day. The thing I care most about is the air that I’m breathing. And so I choose to test air because at the end of the day, if the air is safe, then generally I’m safe. If the dust is unsafe, chances are it’s not going to influence me too too much and influence my health. So some practitioners will test dust in an army test.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:03]

Other practitioners will test air. I more go toward the air because I care about what I’m breathing in and just the safety and quality overall. I find army tests, they’re usually, like, super high, crazy scary. I think they can be helpful for individuals who have experienced CSRs and they’re just, like, in a really, really bad place. And so maybe that testing at that point could be helpful. So, okay, I’m going to sign off. I hope you have a great rest of your day. And thanks for hanging out with me.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:29]

Bye.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:34]

Thanks for listening to the Helpful Pursuit Podcast. Join us next Tuesday for another episode of the show. If you’re looking for free resources, there are a couple places you can go. The first to my blog, healthfulpursuit.com where.

Speaker D [00:51:46]

You’Re going to find loads of recipes.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:48]

The second is a free parasite protocol.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:50]

That I’ve put together for you that.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:52]

Outlines symptoms, testing and resources to determine whether or not you have a parasite, plus a full protocol to follow to eradicate them from your life if you need to. That’s available available at healthfulpursuit.com parasites and last but certainly not least, a full list of blood work markers to ask your doctor for so that you can.

Leanne Vogel [00:52:12]

Get a full picture of your health.

Leanne Vogel [00:52:14]

You can grab that free resource by going to healthfulpursuit.com labs the helpful pursuit Podcast, including show notes and links, provides information in respect to healthy living recipes, nutrition and diet and intended for informational purposes only. The information provided is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor is it to be construed as such. We cannot guarantee that the information provided on the Healthful Pursuit Podcast reflects the most up to date medical research. Information is provided without any representation or warranties of any kind. Please consult a qualified health practitioner with any questions you may have regarding your.

Leanne Vogel [00:52:52]

Health and nutrition program.

The post Acute Mold Exposure Protocols & Steps first appeared on Healthful Pursuit.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:00]

I had nothing. And that just had me consistently giving it off to God. Like, I am completely ineffective at this. Like I’m in a foreign place. I totally did this to myself. I didn’t think this through. Now I’m here. I’ve committed to this.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:20]

I’m doing this. I know I can’t do this. I know that you can. So here, you just like take this because I can’t hold this burden because there’s just too many of them and I’m totally out of my comfort zone. I don’t even know what I’m doing.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:36]

Hey, my name is Leanne and I’m fascinated with helping women navigate how to.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:40]

Eat, move and care for their bodies.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:42]

This has taken me on a journey from vegan keto, high protein to everything in between. I’m a small town holistic nutritionist turned three time international bestselling author turned functional medicine practitioner, offering telemedicine services around the globe to women looking to better their health and stop second guessing themselves. I’m here to teach you how to.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:02]

Wade through the wellness noise to get.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:04]

To the good stuff that’ll help you achieve your goals. Whether you’re seeking relief from chronic ailments, striving for peak performance, or simply eager to live a more vibrant life, this podcast is your go to resource for actionable advice and inspiration. Together, we’ll uncover the interconnectedness of nutrition, movement, sleep, stress management and mindset, empowering you to make informed choices that support your unique health journey. Think Think of it as quality time with your bestie mixed with a little.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:33]

Med school so you’re empowered.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:34]

At your next doctor visit, get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn about your body and how to care for it healthfully. Join me as we embrace vitality, reclaim our innate potential, and discover what it truly means to pursue healthfulness.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:59]

Hey, friend. Oh my goodness. I am so glad to sit here with my notes, with my microphone. We’re not having a guest today, it’s just you and me and I want to open up about a big part of my life and a big part of healthful pursuit, which is my love of travel and adventure and challenging myself in circumstances that are really scary in the moment. But just help me learn just how strong of a human being I can be and how safe the world actually is. So I want to talk about some of my solo travel trips that I’ve taken this year, kind of my goals behind them. Why I recommend that every lady go on her own little solo trip, whether that’s for a weekend or Longer in some capacity. And even, like heck, if you have little ones at home, it might not be that you can take away for a long period of time, but even an afternoon can be quite an adventure without anyone around.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:01]

So I’ll give you a little bit of backstory. I’m not new to the solo travel idea. When I was in my 20s, I did quite a lot of solo travel before I met Kevin. And when I met Kevin, he encouraged me to go on bigger trips, like road trips across Canada. I’ve done India. I did a couple of solo US Trips when we were in Canada. So I’m not. I’m not, like, new to it.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:29]

But each trip has had its challenges, and I would never in a million years go to India by myself ever again. But I did it and that was cool. I was stupid and young and that was great and wouldn’t do it again. But, yeah, I want to kind of highlight some of the challenges. I want to talk about my most recent trip to the Azores, because it was just so much gold there and so, so much perspective that that trip gave me that I just want to share it. And that’s really what Helpful Pursuit has constantly been about since its little baby birth in 2010. When I started the blog to renaming the podcast Helpful Pursuit, it felt like such a natural progression to rename the show Healthful Pursuit, because that’s really what I do. I have been given a simple yet complicated life.

Leanne Vogel [00:04:24]

The Lord has not given us children or the circumstances where children are able to happen. And so, yeah, my life looks probably different than many listening. Many of my friends have teenagers or are even grandparents at this point point. And because of the life stages that they’re at, traveling with a friend just isn’t an option. My sister is like this boss babe, and so she’s like, so busy. I haven’t personally seen her in real life in, oh, geez, at least a year and a bit. And so I’m really. I’m really solo.

Leanne Vogel [00:05:01]

And I do have a husband whom I love very much. We’ve been together 16 years. His name is Kevin, if you’re new to the show. He and I met when we were in our early 20s and fell in love, and everything went very quickly, and here we are, and we have spent a significant amount of time together over the last couple of years. When Kevin and I met, we were working at the same company together, and when he would go to Europe, I would be in Canada, and when he would be in Canada, I would be in Europe. And we kind of like Tag team for. For years, back and forth with our job. And so we started our relationship being quite separate, but being very close and getting very good.

Leanne Vogel [00:05:40]

At the time, it was Skype and we Skyped all the time. And we were very good at staying in touch with one another when we were on opposite sides of the world. But then there came this period in our life where healthful pursuit was growing. I really needed technology support, and Kevin is a technology guy. So he quit his job, which I’ll never forget that day that he handed in his resignation. And we were like, oh my gosh, are we actually, like, gonna rely on our online business to support both of us? What are we doing? And it worked out really great. And we did that for years and years and years. We ended up deciding, like, why are we staying in Airdrie, Alberta, Canada, when we can, like, do this from anywhere? So we bought an rv, we traveled.

Leanne Vogel [00:06:23]

Then we had this crazy idea to buy a sailboat with no experience. Highly. Don’t recommend doing that. That was really stupid. It was a waste of money, time, energy. We learned a lot. I wouldn’t do it again. But we went from zero sailing experience to owning a 60 foot sailing catamaran that was 90ft in the air, 30ft wide.

Leanne Vogel [00:06:45]

Like, talk about just sometimes it’s better to just not know how stupid your decisions are and just go forward with them like, full blown. And I’ve been so, so good at that in my life of just not realizing that there are limitations to the decisions I’m making and just going forward with it. I’m making the best of it. And sometimes, like, I think if I had known that it was a stupid idea to get a catamaran with zero experience and like, try to travel on it, I wouldn’t have done it. But I’m glad I did it. I just wouldn’t do it again. And so Kevin and I spent so much time together. So much time together, like every moment.

Leanne Vogel [00:07:21]

We were together for years and years and years. He left his job in 2000. What would that have been? 14? So, I mean, almost 10 years together every day, without fail. And then he decided he wanted to be a pilot. Just kind of like out of nowhere, decided, I want to see where this could go. You know, he’s in his mid-40s and he was like, now or never. Let’s try it. And he’s really good at it.

Leanne Vogel [00:07:48]

And he got a really good job, fresh out of school, flying a jet and just like, amazing. So we owned a different boat at the time, put the boat on the hard, which basically means you put the boat, like, on concrete. And we just needed some time to figure things out. We ended up listing the boat for sale. We found a buyer. The sale fell through. Now the boat’s sitting. We’re kind of just frozen.

Leanne Vogel [00:08:11]

Nothing’s really moving on that front. If you remember to pray for us, that would be awesome, because we really need to either, like, we really need to sell that boat. And she’s such a beautiful boat. And if my husband wasn’t working as a successful pilot, now, we would be on it. But he’s doing that, and we feel very, very blessed with the opportunities that have been provided to him. Though there was a period of time for about three months, he lost his job. He wasn’t getting any bites. We were like, what are we doing? We just.

Leanne Vogel [00:08:43]

We threw all resources into this flying stuff. What’s happening? But now he has an amazing job that he loves, and so we’re just so thankful for that. But if you know any pilots or any pilot wives or you are a pilot wife yourself, you know that there is a lot of time where you’re by yourself. I’m on day. What is it now? 22. Of not seeing my husband. After 30 days of not seeing my husband, I saw him for, like, four days, and then he left again. And so there’s a lot of solo time.

Leanne Vogel [00:09:14]

And you might be with six kids at home. Like, husband is gone. You’re in the thick of things. You’re just like, Leanne, do not complain about your solo time. That sounds amazing. And I’m not complaining. I feel very thankful for my simple yet complicated life. And I know that I am being sanctified through this solo time.

Leanne Vogel [00:09:37]

And it gives me a ton of time to work, a ton of time to reflect, a ton of time to give into other people’s lives and learn what it’s like to die to self. Because, like, let me tell you, after a day of caring for my clients and recording podcasts and just giving so much of myself to others, to then have a community of people that I know personally and giving myself to that community, it isn’t ongoing struggle for me, an ongoing struggle, because the last thing I want to do is give more. To be honest, like, that is not my default after a crazy day of giving that I continue to give. And so I know that God gives us certain circumstances to work through those. Those areas that we’re sticky in. And I have no doubt that the order of events that have occurred over the last, like, three months were orchestrated by God, it has been absolute chaos, too. I had booked a trip to the Azores probably like, nine months ago. Kevin was working.

Leanne Vogel [00:10:38]

I have always wanted to go the Azores. He was like, I can’t get any time off. So, like, you go, you go, enjoy. And then I booked everything. Everything was paid for. He lost his job, and I’m like, oh, my goodness, I can’t even get this money back. I guess I’m going. So I actually went to the Azores.

Leanne Vogel [00:10:53]

While Kevin didn’t have a job, he was trying to find jobs, going for interviews, all the things while I was traveling around. And the day I got back from my trip, he got a job and left. And so there’s just been a lot of back and forth and change and all the things. And I enjoy eating well, I enjoy moving my body. I enjoy thinking about my internal thought life and giving and all those pieces to a healthful life. And. And a big part of this is seeing my comforts as they are. And the solo travel has definitely pushed me in areas I didn’t think I needed pushing in.

Leanne Vogel [00:11:32]

So earlier in 2024, I was turning 38 and I wanted to go on a little trip, and there was a seat sale going to Rome, and I was like, yeah, that sounds great. I. I never really looked into going to Rome. I really had no, like, desire to go to Italy. My sister had said that she really loved it because we’re both gluten free. And she was like, the food there is insane. You should definitely go. And I was like, yeah, sure.

Leanne Vogel [00:11:55]

So I booked the flight. I went. It was 10 days. I almost didn’t get on the plane because I was so. I was so nervous to go. I wouldn’t say, like, terrified necessarily, but it was more just like, I didn’t want to go because my life had been going so well. My training was good, my food was dialed in. I just, you know, I didn’t want to change my routine, to be honest.

Leanne Vogel [00:12:22]

I was just very happy being at home and having my routine. And I was really upset when I got to the airport. I was crying. I called my sister and I was like, I can’t do this. 10 days. It’s going to totally throw everything off. It’s going to be such a challenge. And, like, I just.

Leanne Vogel [00:12:38]

I just. I don’t. I don’t want to do this. And she talked me into going. I’m so glad that she did, because when I got back, I was like, this was awesome. I really enjoyed this. I went to Rome for a couple days. I went to sorrento for a couple days, took a day trip to Capri, hiked the path of the gods in the Malfi coast, spent a day in Florence, went back to Rome, ate so many things.

Leanne Vogel [00:13:03]

I continued with my training schedule though. It is very different when you’re in Europe. And when I got back I was like, wow, that was challenging. It definitely proved that I can travel by myself, even though I’d been on so many. Like I went to India for months by myself in my 20s and it was fine, but I was scared for sure. But it’s funny, like how quickly we just get tied into our routine that it’s just scary to not do that routine every day. Like, you know. And so when I got back from Italy, I have always wanted to go to the Azores.

Leanne Vogel [00:13:37]

It’s been on my list. This is a chain of islands off the coast of Portugal. It’s kind of like in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. I did so much research and I decided on a couple of the Azores islands that I wanted to check out. So I started doing research on like flights and how I was going to make all that happen. It is very expensive to fly into the Azores. Like a return ticket I was looking at was like $3,000 and I was like, no. If you’re looking for a snack that’s healthy, convenient and packed with flavor, you’ve got to try Paleo Valley 100% grass fed beef sticks.

Leanne Vogel [00:14:18]

These aren’t your typical gas station meat sticks. They’re made from beef sourced from cows that are pasture raised on family farms. That means no hormones, no antibiotics, and the beef is fermented to create natural probiotics which are great for gut health. Plus, Paleo Valley sticks are a clean source of protein, perfect for on the go, snacking or post workout fuel. They’re gluten free, soy free, dairy free and non GMO. You can go to paleovalley.com leanne for 15 off your order. The best part though, the very, very best part, is that they actually taste amazing. My favorite is the original flavor right now, but I’ve also been known to love the garlic summer sausage.

Leanne Vogel [00:15:00]

They also have teriyaki and jalapeno. So whether you’re hiking or working or you just need a quick snack in between meals, these sticks are the perfect choice. Check out Paleo Valley’s 100% grass fed bee sticks and enjoy a snack that’s not only good for you, but tastes incredible. Go to paleovalley.com leanne for 15% off your order. Or you can simply use the code leanne. That’s L E A N N E for 15% off. So I had this crazy idea to fly into the cheapest place that I could find in Europe and then just like figure out how to get to the Azores from Lisbon, which was really inexpensive. Like flights are a hundred dollars.

Leanne Vogel [00:15:43]

So I found the cheapest flight. It was to Madrid. And so the, the trip started taking shape and the more it took shape, the bigger the trip was getting. And so I ended up on a 40 day trip to get like to experience the Azores, but there was like extra days in this place, in that place as I was making my way to the Azores. And then I found out that Madeira was nearby, which isn’t considered Azores. And so I added that to the trip. So it just became this like epic trip, which was such a great timing, even though at the end of the day, like Kevin didn’t have a job. And I was like, well, come with me.

Leanne Vogel [00:16:22]

And he’s like, no, I need to stay here. I need to apply for jobs. That he had the time of me being away that he could focus on applications and the details of his employment. It was just like such perfect timing that I was gone while he was in the thick of applying for things and all of that. So it ended up working out really well. But the trip got bigger and bigger and bigger to the point where I’ll kind of share the itinerary with you because I’ve gotten a lot of questions about like where I went, why I chose those places. And then we’ll kind of get into some of the realizations and struggles and, and things that I experienced. So I left from Miami, I went to Madrid.

Leanne Vogel [00:17:02]

I decided to spend a couple of days in Madrid to just climatize. I don’t deal with jet lag, thank goodness. But I do do a lot of things in preparation for this to avoid it. The number one thing is fasting. I do not eat on planes. I know that’s going to be like so weird for you to hear, but whenever I eat on a plane, I get, I get not okay, jet lag, terrible. And then I also use a lot of melatonin. So I’ll get on the plane.

Leanne Vogel [00:17:32]

You know, the flight to Madrid didn’t leave until like 9:00 at night. So I, I ate, I worked out that day. I hydrated like crazy, got on the plane, sat in the very back where the seats are so uncomfortable. It’s how, how do we do this? I’m too old for this. But I did it. Got to Madrid took a bunch of melatonin gummies with me and did that for a couple of days at night before bed. I was. I still had a crazy cough from when I was sick over the summer.

Leanne Vogel [00:18:01]

So I dealt with that and had to go to the pharmacy a couple of times to get some cough syrup. And the pharmacists over there are just like, so knowledgeable and amazing. And I just, I love, I love going to Europe to like, learn how they do health. It’s just so different. So I did a couple days in Madrid and then I took a train from Madrid to Granada. It was a couple of hours. Then I went from Granada over to Sevilla, which is also in Spain. From Sevilla, I took a plane to Lisbon and then stayed in Lisbon for a couple of hours.

Leanne Vogel [00:18:36]

I was trying to do like a layover tour situation but couldn’t figure it out. So I found a quiet place in the Lisbon airport and fell asleep a couple of hours and then made my way to my first Azores island, which was Pico. I had done a ton of research and decided that Pico was going to be one of the Aur islands. I was going to check out Sal Miguel was the other one. And then I was going to do Madeira. I would do Aur again, but I would never do it by myself ever again. And we’ll get into why in a moment. So I went from Civila to Lisbon, Lisbon to.

Leanne Vogel [00:19:10]

On a flight to Pico Island. I stayed in Pico island for about five or six days, I think Sao Miguel for a week, which I got to also buy plane. Now you can take ferries. But I didn’t. It was late in the season and I just chose not to do that. I felt like planes and were going to be easier. And then I spent another week in Madeira and ended up back on the mainland and spent like a week in Lisbon. So that was my trip and I love the way I planned it.

Leanne Vogel [00:19:43]

I used ChatGPT actually a lot to plan the details of how do I get from here to here. What things should I check out? What’s important? Like, oh my goodness, chatgpt like planned this trip and it was fantastic. Highly recommend Highlights in Madrid. I didn’t want to spend a lot of money on this trip, obviously, because my husband wasn’t working. This was already all paid for. I couldn’t get a refund. So a lot of my activities were like super inexpensive. I only ate out twice.

Leanne Vogel [00:20:14]

I bought everything at grocery stores and cooked all my own food and like, kept things very, very cost effective. I’m actually so proud of myself with how little money I spent while I was there. So Madrid, I got a museum pass and I fell in love with art on that trip. I went to so many different art museums. I had such a blast. I determined that absolutely without a doubt, I hate contemporary art. Do not try to change my mind. I think Picasso is terrible.

Leanne Vogel [00:20:42]

I don’t understand it. So there’s that. You can argue with me, I don’t know what I’m talking about. But when I look at it, I’m just like, I hate this, it’s terrible. And so I spent a lot of time in art museums and walking around with my little grail water bottle, filling up my water at free places and filtering it myself. I went to grocery stores for lunch and grabbed like gluten free crackers and meats and sat in the grass and ate them. It was very easy to eat well the whole trip. I didn’t have a problem finding food other than Madeira.

Leanne Vogel [00:21:18]

Madeira was harder. It’s funny, I went to Madeira fully expecting for it to be my most favorite, absolute crazy place. Like oh my gosh, I could probably live here to being like, yeah, I don’t know if I would come back. So it was really good. It was really good to have that perspective. But Madrid was awesome. I noticed pretty quickly that it’s pretty challenging to connect with individuals in Spain when you don’t speak Spanish. It wasn’t like Italy where there was just a lot of English speaking.

Leanne Vogel [00:21:48]

I found the places where I went to in Spain to be more Spanish speaking which made it more difficult to connect with other individuals. There were so many tourists there, but most of the tourists spoke Spanish also so it made it more challenging. I found a great, a great gym in Madrid and so I went to the gym. I kept up with my training schedule the whole time I was gone. I did a four day split which worked out really well with all the hiking that I did. And I really just used Madrid as a way to like climatize to being in Spain. Then I took the train like I said to Granada. And Granada was incredible.

Leanne Vogel [00:22:29]

It was beautiful. I wish I had more time there. I feel like I’m not done with Spain. I would love, love to go back with my husband. I think it would be just such a beautiful trip for us to take together through Spain. Granada was incredible, like just so beautiful. The reason I went to Granada is that I wanted to climb the Sierra Nevada mountains. I wanted to hike all through there.

Leanne Vogel [00:22:52]

So I found a tour guide and there was a group going and I’m so thankful I went with a group, because I would have turned around the first hour. It was a horrible day. It was a horrible day to do the mountains. Like, it was rainy and windy and just cold and terrible. And I. I would have turned around, Abs. I probably wouldn’t even left my house, to be honest. My Airbnb.

Leanne Vogel [00:23:15]

I would have stayed and been like, I’m not going today. But I didn’t want to let the group down, so I kept going. And it actually wasn’t that bad at the end of it, but I’ve never been so cold in my life, and I’m Canadian, so that says a lot. I was freezing. I couldn’t feel most of my body. My ears hurt so bad on the inside. I just. I’ve never felt that way before.

Leanne Vogel [00:23:34]

But I persevered, and I persevered because I was in a group. And that was the only hike that I did with other people. And this was the main purpose of me going on this trip, was to challenge myself physically and do a ton of hikes. And the Sierra Nevada hike was by far my favorite because the people made it worth it. The conversation was fabulous. I connected with a gentleman from Saudi, and we talked about all sorts of things for hours and hours and hours, and it was so good, and it distracted me. It challenged me. And Sadi sounds pretty great.

Leanne Vogel [00:24:06]

I definitely wouldn’t have said that I’d want to check out Sadi, but after having a conversation with him, I was like, dang, that sounds pretty great. So it’s really nice to connect with people as you’re traveling and to push yourself out of your comfort zone and, you know, share and ask questions. And there was another lady on the hike that dealt with immigration law in Australia, and she shared some pretty crazy stuff with me, and it challenged me, and I asked really difficult questions, and she was just so open to answering them. And there’s just to be able to have different perspectives and to, like, go into conversations with people that you would never otherwise connect with and just ask questions of them and be open and answer their questions, like, not worried necessarily about what they’re going to say or how they’re going to react to your response. It was just. I learned a lot on that hike, both about the perseverance and the support of having other people around you when situations are absolutely atrocious, and also about the world and things that challenge individuals around the globe. So that was really. That was a really, really, really good day.

Leanne Vogel [00:25:15]

And then I followed up that day with going to the Arab baths the next day, which was such an experience. It was quite stressful because I never knew when they were going to call me. And so I didn’t really know how it all worked, but it was totally worth it. I would do it again. I highly recommend you go. I ended up checking out the Alhambra and Nasrid palaces, but the. The guide that was doing. I ended up leaving the tour before I saw the palace, because the guide was just driving me nuts, and I just couldn’t even anymore.

Leanne Vogel [00:25:47]

And that’s like, the really cool thing about traveling alone is like, I don’t even care how cool the palaces are. I just don’t even care. I want to go home. I’m tired. I don’t want to walk anymore. I want to get some gelato and go pass out. And so that’s what I did. So I never got to see the inside area.

Leanne Vogel [00:26:05]

So I’ll have to go back maybe some other time and make sure that it’s not with that guide. Then I went to Sevilla and I took a train. The train didn’t have WI Fi. That really sucked because I was planning on working all day because I was. I was also working throughout this whole trip. And that was awesome. I connected with a family from Germany, and we just, you know, talked about their life. And again, I asked.

Leanne Vogel [00:26:30]

I enjoy asking so many questions. Just learn about people and learn about their struggles and, you know, what’s on their mind and, you know, just all that stuff. It’s just so fascinating to me and helps me kind of get a different perspective of what’s going on in my life and what my priorities are. And then I had this really special bike tour with this tour guide. And it was supposed to be a group tour, but that everybody canceled last minute. So it was just her and I. And this actually happened a lot on my trip. Usually I use Viator to book little trips for the day.

Leanne Vogel [00:27:06]

I enjoy kind of connecting with other people, and so I enjoy the aspect of the group dynamic. It is sometimes nice to just have your own tour guide and be able to just connect with them and ask them questions. And this specific tour guide, she had lived in a bunch of different European countries, and so I got to just ask her all about that. And she knew so much about the history of the city. And because she knew that I had lived on boats and loved boats, she saw. She showed me a lot of areas that I otherwise wouldn’t have known about. And so that was really, really sweet. I found the most amazing gym in Sevilla.

Leanne Vogel [00:27:43]

It was incredible. Like, I’d still be there if I didn’t have that ticket that I needed to get. It was just such a great gym. I would move to Sevilla just for that gym. That was the best gym that I’ve ever been to. I really, really enjoyed my time at that gym. And I only got to go once. And it was such a bummer because it was by far the best gym that I went to my whole trip.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:03]

Now, the thing about gyms in Europe, especially on the islands, is, like, everything is usually broken. You’re never going to find what you want, and you just got to make the best of it. But it’s a challenge and it’s fun. And I came back from this trip stronger than I’ve been ever. I think a lot of the hiking had to do with this, too. Like, just incredible gains at the gym when I got back. And so I know sometimes it can be really scary, like going to a new place and having a different routine. But it worked out really, really great for me, and I was really, really thankful to kind of switch it up.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:40]

So, like I said then from Civila, I went to Pico. Pico was really special. So one of the main reasons I went to Pico is I wanted to climb the Pico Mountain. If you look it up, it’s a ginormous mountain. I got about halfway up and decided that I hated the hike and I was not having a good time and turned around and went down the mountain. And I don’t regret that at all. It was boring. I learned that I am not the type of person to just, like, climb a mountain with nothing to see.

Leanne Vogel [00:29:09]

I really enjoy seeing things and trees and water and stuff. But this was literally just up a mountain with nothing to look at, with rocks to pull yourself up off. And it was just. It wasn’t fun. And I’m not, like, I’m not a mountain climber. I’m not here to win an award. I just want to have a nice time. And it was so boring.

Leanne Vogel [00:29:30]

So I didn’t do it, and I have no regrets. And in fact, after I went down the mountain, a couple of hours later, the mountain was, like, covered in rain. And I was like, that would have sucked so bad. I’m so glad that I turned around. And that was a real turning point for me, too. I was really, really struggling with the preparation of that hike. I hadn’t really. I don’t like looking up trails before I go of, like, what it’s exactly going to be like and what it looks like.

Leanne Vogel [00:29:58]

But then I did for this one. And I saw what it was going to be like and I was like, oh, man, this looks like it’s going to be really not enjoyable. And I was psyching myself out and then I was. I was chatting with Kevin and he’s just such a support. Support to me. He’s always encouraging me to push beyond my limit. Always that guy. And so he’s like, you don’t have to go.

Leanne Vogel [00:30:19]

I mean, you could show up, see how you feel, try it, and if you don’t like it, turn around. Like, it’s not like, you know, you’re a mountain climber and you need to do this. It’s not like there’s a paycheck in it for you. Like, just try it out. And I think it’s the first time in my life where I’ve been like, I just don’t want to do this. You know, I. I push myself so much in areas where I don’t need to push myself in. What is the point of this? Like, just like, there’s some areas like eating well, where sometimes I don’t want to eat well, or I like.

Leanne Vogel [00:30:50]

Or going to the gym where sometimes I don’t want to go to the gym. And I’m like, no, this aligns with your goals because xyz. But climbing this mountain or not climbing this mountain is not going to make a difference to my overall goals as a human being on this planet. So I was really proud of myself for turning around and actually not doing the hike. And then the next day and Pico, I went to a bunch of different hikes and kind of like picked around the island for a long time, just like, finding little trails to go on. And I really, really, really enjoyed. Enjoyed that day. I went on a whale watching tour, which was totally boring and I didn’t like it.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:25]

I’ve never been on one. I don’t know if I’d ever be on one again. When you’ve been on your own boat and seen wildlife off your own boat, it, yeah, kind of just like ruins it for you. And I say that with, like, when I got off that little boat, I was so thankful for the life that I’ve had on the ocean. I hope that we get to have a phase two on the ocean again. But just that I can say, like, dolphins have literally come up to me while I’m swimming and I’ve played with them. I played fetch with adult. A wild dolphin.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:57]

When you’ve had those experiences, it’s just like those cookie cutter tours just don’t cut it. And it really made me thankful for the experiences that I have had. And the, just the natural part of it all was just so incredible. I then went on this epic hike right after the whale watching up this crazy mountain. It was nuts. It was the steepest thing I’ve ever done. It was beautiful. The photos were incredible.

Leanne Vogel [00:32:23]

I. This was a hike where I thought I was going to listen to a million different audios and like get through a book or something, but I literally just prayed the whole hike. And this kind of started. This was about a week and a half into my trip and this started my hiking and praying. And every time I went for a hike, I didn’t, I didn’t really do anything but just like talk to God. And it was so special. And I started to notice a couple of themes happening of just as I was hiking, I was constantly thinking of the next thing I had to do. Like, okay, so when I get off the mountain, I’m going to do xyz and then this and then this and this.

Leanne Vogel [00:33:01]

And I just realized how often my nervous system is just in total overwhelm over the next thing that I have to do and how much I lack presence in my day to day and how full I make my skills schedule for the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And it. When I started to touch on that on my trip, I noticed just how much anxiety I had over doing the next thing and thinking of the next thing. That was just like so natural to me that I. It was a significant amount of anxiety I carry on a daily basis of, okay, you know, even as I’m doing this podcast, I’m thinking, okay, so then I’ll be finished this podcast. I have two hours before my next client. I’m going to make myself some lunch. I’m going to sit out in the center.

Leanne Vogel [00:33:43]

Like, I can’t just be present. That was one big theme that just like carried out throughout the trip. Another really, really big theme and started to really take root on this first trip to Pico island was I had to rent a car to like, get around. And I guess I didn’t like, think about, I didn’t like, think about that ahead of time because, like, these roads are very, very narrow. You’re in Europe driving by yourself a standard vehicle, which I learned on stick. It’s not a matter of like, I can or can’t do it, but I learned in Alberta, where we like, we don’t have a lot of hills or mountains and these roads were very steep, like crazy steep. And There was just a lot of anxiety around where I was gonna find a parking spot if I was gonna be able to see because my hikes were. I was getting up at like 4:35am, getting to the trail, having my first meal, starting the trail and like finishing around 4pm So I had like all day to hike and I wasn’t worried about getting home too late or in the dark or whatever.

Leanne Vogel [00:34:52]

So I was driving in the dark in the mornings and I just had a lot of anxiety and worry about the car situation. And every single moment I had those worries because I was so out of my comfort. Like, I didn’t, I had very little comforts, I didn’t have people, I didn’t have just my day to day practice, you know, I had nothing. And that just had me consistently giving it off to God. Like I, I am completely ineffective at this. Like I’m in a foreign place. I totally did this to myself. I didn’t think this through.

Leanne Vogel [00:35:36]

Now I’m here, I’ve committed to this, I’m doing this. I know I can’t do this. I know that you can. So here, you just like take this. Because I can’t hold this burden because there’s just too many of them and I’m totally out of my comfort zone. I don’t even know what I’m doing. And this like muscle was used over and over and over, this faith muscle. And I was like working it.

Leanne Vogel [00:35:58]

And when I got home, I felt not only like physically stronger from all the hiking because I hiked like 120km or something ridiculous, but also just spiritually stronger in my faith. And I spent just a lot of time mulling through so much. Like so much. The hiking was just my favorite, my favorite part, but also the loneliest part, but also the most communicable part when it came to spending time with God. So that really started in Pico and continued throughout the rest of my trip. Now when I got to San Miguel, this is a bigger island, more people, more. Like the roads were wider, but they were really busy and there was lots going on and lots of signs. And so there were more challenges on that front of just like making sure that I was in the right place and not going down one way, the wrong way, which I never did, thank God.

Leanne Vogel [00:36:56]

I ended up staying downtown and the parking was very, very far away. It was like a 15 or 20 minute walk to the, to the apartment. So it was just a lot of like coordination and just again, out of my comfort. Like, what I want is my home, my Car out front, my groceries that get delivered, I go to the gym, I come home, I work, I, you know, see my friend, I go home, I make dinner, I, you know, easy ease. And I don’t think of my day to day life as easy. But when you’re in a foreign place with like a language that’s not your own, with a car that’s parked far away in a place that you don’t know, there’s nobody to really support or help and you’re kind of like, you know, solo, which was so good for me. So when I got to San Miguel, there’s this epic hike that I wanted to check out first because it sounded like I’m not sure I want to do it. So I actually rented a quad and did the hike with a quad and decided there’s no way that I want to hike this.

Leanne Vogel [00:37:59]

But it was so cool. It went around the rim of two volcanoes, which was incredible. It was beautiful. I learned how to drive a quad, which felt very much like a land dinghy, which was just so fun. I did a day in furnace, which is like natural hot springs. The Zores is very in love with natural pools. Hot pools. I was in the ocean multiple times a day, either through a natural pool, where basically they have these like natural rocks that are around beaches that create just this environment that’s like a pool, but it’s ocean water.

Leanne Vogel [00:38:34]

I was in the water so much. Like, so, so, so much. I was constantly wearing my bathing suit. I carried my bathing suit everywhere because I hiked primarily in my hiking sandals. I had those for the water, which was so great because Azores rocks are the slipperiest in the world and you cannot go in with your bare feet. Like, I am surprised I didn’t break my head open on some of those, some of those natural pools, because you got it, you got to be on top of it. And that’s another thing is, like, right now I’m physically capable. And there was one of the most challenging hikes that I went on.

Leanne Vogel [00:39:08]

It was in Madeira, and it was ridiculous. And I remember walking down, eating my little Haribo candy because I needed more glucose in my body, thinking, like, there may come a point where I won’t be able to use these legs as I’m doing it now. And, like, how amazing is it that I get to do this stuff while I physically can. And these natural pools and just all of the experiences that I get to have with my body are just so special. Like, so special. Here’s a startling fact. 60% of American adults live with at least one chronic illness and 40% have two or more. Regular blood tests are vital for managing these conditions, but traditional reports often leave you confused.

Leanne Vogel [00:39:57]

That’s where Cyfox Health steps in. Cyphox Health offers an affordable, convenient, and comprehensive blood testing solution that requires no appointments and no travel. With regular biomarker testing, personalized assessments, and tailored action plans, Xyfox helps you take control of your health like never before. They even create custom supplement packs based on your blood work so you’re getting exactly what you need. Ready to take proactive health decisions? Go to psypox health.comleanne that’s S I P H O X health.comleanne for 20% off your first order. There are a couple of days in San Miguel where I just had, like, chill gym days where I just, like, went to the gym, kind of tried to create structure that I would have at home. And that was just really good because I think too, when you’re traveling, there’s this pressure of just like, I have to see the next thing. I have to do this, I have to do that.

Leanne Vogel [00:40:55]

I have a, like, a list of activities. So it was really good for me to realize, like, I can’t see it all. I have the pressure that I want to see it all, but I’m not even sure I want to see it all. I just feel like since I’m here, I need to see it all. And so actually, like, slowing down and saying, like, no, I’m just going to have a boring day. I’m going to eat, I’m going to go to the gym, I’m going to come back, I’m going to work, I’m going to read. At this point, I was reading, like, a book every one or two days. I went through so many books, which was just fabulous to have that time.

Leanne Vogel [00:41:26]

And this was around the time that I decided, okay, I’m gonna, like, sign off work and social media and just, like, have solo time. And it was just so special to get that time alone, which I don’t think a lot of us actually get. And it was really, really special, really challenging. I wouldn’t do all these hikes and a trip to Azores again by myself, But I’m so thankful that I did it. And to fast forward, when I got home, I started dealing with pretty epic joint pain. Like, the minute I got home, my joints were, like, not happy. And after a week, I realized that there was water damage under our windows. And the joint pain and nervous system responses I was getting was not because I just Had a hard trip.

Leanne Vogel [00:42:08]

It was because I was dealing with mold illness. And so next week we’re going to cover kind of what happened when I got back, which has been a total crazy, fast, like absolute insane what’s happened since I got back from my trip, which is so cool because in retrospect, God was absolutely preparing me. Like, this trip was to massively work those faith muscles because I needed those muscles the minute I got back. The minute I got back. So it was so good. Sal Miguel was a bunch of hikes. I went to a pineapple plantation, which everyone said was incredible. I thought it was lame.

Leanne Vogel [00:42:47]

I didn’t enjoy it. The pineapple was delicious. I paid like €9 for it. I’m happy I got it, but, like, not sure it was worth the trip. But you live and you learn. Then I got to Madeira. Madeira was really unique, so it’s not part of the aur. So in aura, the food is incredible.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:04]

Just like the different. The culture is very different than when you go to Madeira. Madeira has a lot of Europeans that have moved there. There’s a lot of different cultures that I noticed. All the roads are basically in tunnels. The roads are the steepest, most intense roads out of the islands that I visited. I’m so glad that I started in Pico, which was a quieter island to like learn how to drive. And then San Miguel, which was more busy.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:33]

Madeira was not. So Madeira was like, Madeira was crazy. And I actually met a lady from California who rented a car and she lasted a day with her rental car. She’s like, I can’t do this. I’m like, is this your first time driving, like on the islands? And she’s like, yeah. I’m like, I would have thought the same thing had I started here. It was nuts. The driving was crazy.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:55]

And all these hikes, like I said, especially for Madeira, I was waking up really, really, really early. I initially had a plan to stay in the city, and last minute I changed the plan to stay in the country. And I’m glad I changed the plan because the country house was like 10 minutes away from most of the trails that I wanted to check out. So instead of driving like a two hour drive in the morning to get to my trail, it was like a 10 minute drive. And gosh, did that make a difference? It made a huge difference. And these were the most epic hikes. These were the hikes that were like 9 to 12. The longest was, I think 15 or 16 hours.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:32]

And so it was nice to be that close that when I was done, it was a pretty short drive back home. Madeira, a couple of weeks before my trip had had some pretty crazy wildfires. So the actual hike that started this whole trip, this whole idea, was actually closed. So when I got to Madeira, I couldn’t even do the hike. That kind of started the whole plan to go to Azores and do the islands. But like I said, Madeira is not part of Azores. It’s close. I think the flight was like, an hour and a half or something from San Miguel.

Leanne Vogel [00:45:08]

But I would say it was worth it. I just. Like I said, doing these islands by yourself, a lot of people only speak Portuguese, and so it was just very isolating. And many of the tours were older people. There weren’t many younger people. Like, I didn’t see any real younger people. And Madeira was a lot of cruisers, which kind of, like, takes away from the experience and just reiterates the fact that, like, for cruises, it’s so hard to get a flavor of where you’re staying because it’s such a short trip. And it just made me really thankful that I got more time in the areas that I did when traveling through Azores and these islands.

Leanne Vogel [00:45:51]

The. Because you’re in the Atlantic, the weather changes quite often. I was really lucky in that it was pretty consistent. And I just. Everyone says, like, you need to check, you know, the travel or the. The weather reports and their cameras all over the islands. You need to check in, and blah, blah, blah. I didn’t bother with that.

Leanne Vogel [00:46:08]

I just couldn’t even. There was just so much stimulus, like, without all of that, that I just decided, no, I’m not doing that. I’m not doing it. So I didn’t do it. It was great work. Fine, whatever. And, yeah, so I did. I did travel, or I did hike on days where it probably wasn’t, like, ideal to hike, but I just couldn’t.

Leanne Vogel [00:46:26]

I knew my limits, and I knew that if I was also caring that much about weather and all the things, it would just, like, absolutely overwhelm me. So I just decided not. And I’m so glad I made that decision. And that has translated also to when I came back, kind of dealing with the mold stuff, I realized, you know, people would say, well, what are you doing next? And what’s happening? I’m like, I have no idea. I know that today this is happening. And my mom was like, but where are you staying tonight? I’m like, I don’t know. Come nighttime, I’ll know where I’m staying. I.

Leanne Vogel [00:46:54]

Right now, it’s just not. It’s not a Thing that I’m thinking of, I haven’t even thought about it, and I will think about it before I need to sleep. And so, like I said, just this training my faith and just knowing what my limits were was just really nice. Madeira was a lot of, no, actually, I don’t want to do that. And a lot of hiking. I went to Funchal for the day, which was fine. I stayed there for a couple hours and was like, nah, this is lame. I’m going back to my place and just reading my book.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:24]

It was a lot more solo by the time I got to Lisbon. I was. I was so relieved to be back on the mainland. And I realized that I’m not sure that I would do a European trip like that again. I was so thankful to be in a busy city. And I toured Lisbon, and I got stuck in a rally that kind of, like, popped up out of nowhere, which was so fascinating to ask the locals, like, what was going on politically and why they were protesting certain things. And that was, like, super fun. And that was kind of, like, the trip.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:00]

It was incredible. I would highly recommend anyone, like I said, go on some sort of solo adventure. Getting out of your comfort zone or even an adventure with your family where you’re out of your comfort zone definitely taught me, like, where, Like, a lot to do with anxiety, where I hold anxiety, where I hold expectations that are just, like, stupid. Like, why am I holding on to this? It literally means nothing to the course of my life. I don’t know why this is so important to me. And that is just, yeah, carried with me through these next couple weeks that I had when I got home. So I hope something in there that I shared was helpful. Many of you have asked, like, how my trip went and what happened, and food wise, it was great.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:46]

Like, I was eating a substantial amount of carbohydrates because I was hiking all the time. It was hard to get that amount of fuel in. But I came back, like, stronger and more determined and also, just, like, in love with hiking to the point where I’ve always, always, always wanted to do Patagonia. It’s been on my list for quite some time. The O trek specifically. I was thinking about doing it solo. It’s always kind of been in the back of my mind, but after this trip, kind of doing it all by myself, hiking, I was like, no way I will ever do a trek by myself. No, thank you.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:20]

I need people. I need that challenge, the motivation, the conversation. So I booked Patagonia Otrek for March with a group which I’m really excited about to be around people, and that’s going to be a challenge in and of itself. Physically. There is hiking. It’s every day. There’s no rest. So I’m going to start training for this in December.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:40]

And I’m just so glad that I get to use my body in this way and that it’s showing up for me because years and years and years ago, I could not have done this. Like, there’s no way. I remember on some of those hikes in the Z, I was thinking, like, there’s no, there’s no stinking way that my body could have done this a couple of years ago. And now look, yeah, it’s hard, but it can do it. And so I’m excited to challenge myself with the O track. So we’ll kind of see where this goes. It’s fun. It’s a, it’s a new chapter for Kevin and I as he works on his piloting stuff and flying and where I fit into all of that and how we fit together.

Leanne Vogel [00:50:17]

It’s such a fun, fun season of life, learning how to support one another in a different way. And that’s what’s so, so beautiful about marriage, that we don’t stay the same and we get to support each other and challenge each other in new ways. So I hope that you enjoy the rest of your day and we will chat next week about the whole mold situation and then we’ll go back to regular programming with some guests that we have planned. Okay, we’ll chat then. Bye.

Leanne Vogel [00:50:45]

Thanks for listening to the helpful Perspective podcast. Join us next Tuesday for another episode of the show. If you’re looking for free resources, there are a couple of places you can go. The first to my blog, healthfulpursuit.com where you’re going to find loads of recipes. The second is a free parasite protocol that I’ve put together for you that outlines symptoms, testing and resources to determine whether or not you have a parasite, plus a full protocol to follow to eradicate them from your life if you need to. That’s available at healthfulpursuit.com parasites and last but certainly not least, a full list of blood work markers to ask your.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:23]

Doctor for so that you can get.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:24]

A full picture of your health. You can grab that free resource by going to healthfulpursuit.com labs. The helpful pursuit podcast, including show notes and links, provides information in respect to healthy living recipes, nutrition and diet diet and is intended for informational purposes only. The information provided is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor is it to be construed as such. We cannot guarantee that the information provided on the Healthful Pursuit podcast reflects the most up to date medical research. Information is provided without any representation or warranties of any kind. Please consult a qualified health practitioner with any questions you may have regarding your.

Leanne Vogel [00:52:03]

Health and nutrition program.

The post Solo Travel as a Woman – Lessons from Azores & Spain first appeared on Healthful Pursuit.

Christy Osborne [00:00:00]

I need rest. Drink the wine. But what we don’t have is the opposite of that of getting rest and like true relaxation, not drinking. So you have to do all the things that you’re doing in life without alcohol in order to gather the data that you will feel better.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:19]

Hello and welcome. As you may know, October is sober month for many of us. We are looking to remove alcohol out of our life and I wanted to have my friend Christie on to chat about what this looks like. After losing her mother in 2018, Christie masked her grief by socializing and partying across Europe. One morning, she realized that alcohol was deepening her pain rather than helping her heal. Confronting the fear of giving up wine, she questioned how she would relax, celebrate, or even enjoy life without it. Now, with years of sobriety and two life coaching certifications, Christie helps women take a supported break from alcohol through her 30 day course and personalized coaching. Her approach has helped thousands worldwide change their relationship with alcohol by addressing the subconscious beliefs that keep them tied to it, not through willpower, but with proven strategies that work.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:16]

Now.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:16]

Christie is the host of But Jesus Drank Wine podcast. You can find out more by going to but Jesus drank wine.com Christie’s website is love life sober co UK and her Instagram is Love Life Sober with Christy. Now we’re doing a deep dive into the strategies that help you live your best life. I am so excited about this because it’s a topic that’s near and dear to my heart. My husband and I realized in 2018 that we were just drinking too much. We came back from a Bahamas trip on our sailboat and we basically drank every day, a couple of drinks every day. And my triglycerides were sky high and his insulin was not great. And we just decided in that moment we don’t need alcohol.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:04]

Like let’s just see what life is like without it.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:07]

And we haven’t turned back.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:09]

So that was quite some time ago.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:11]

I’m so excited to share some of these strategies that Christie is just so good at. Like she just breaks it all down and helps us make sense of why we turn to alcohol. So without further ado, let’s cut over to our interview with Christy Osborne. Hey, my name is Leanne and I’m fascinated with helping women navigate how to eat, move and care for their bodies. This has taken me on a journey from vegan keto high protein to everything in between. I’m a small town holistic nutritionist turned three time international bestselling author turned functional medicine practitioner offering telemedicine services around the globe to women looking to better their health and stop second guessing themselves. I’m here to teach you how to wade through the wellness noise to get to the good stuff that’ll help you achieve your goals. Whether you’re seeking relief from chronic ailments, striving for peak performance, or simply eager to live a more vibrant life, this podcast is your go to resource for actionable advice and inspiration.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:11]

Together, we’ll uncover the interconnectedness of nutrition, movement, sleep, stress management and mindset, empowering you to make informed choices that support your unique health journey. Think of it as quality time with your bestie mixed with a little med school so you’re empowered. At your next doctor visit, get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn about your body and how to care for it healthfully. Join me as we embrace vitality, reclaim our innate potential, and discover what it truly means to pursue healthfulness.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:52]

Hey, Christy, how’s it going?

Christy Osborne [00:03:54]

Oh, hi, Leanne. Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here today.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:58]

Yeah, of course, of course. So I just did your official bio, but I would love for you, in a couple of words to tell us, like, what lights you up? Why do you do what you do?

Christy Osborne [00:04:08]

Yeah. Oh my gosh. So I love helping women who are stuck in like, the gray area drinking cycle to find freedom from alcohol. And I really like doing that using a ton of grace, a ton of compassion and neuroscience, because that is what helped me so much is coming from a place of self compassion and curiosity while also understanding. And that’s why I’m so excited to talk to you today, because you dive into all this stuff so well of like, how alcohol is actually affecting our brains and our bodies and if we’re better served to maybe cut it out for a bit or drink less or cut it out altogether, like, and I’m obviously passionate about it because I have this story of being hooked on alcohol and then realizing that there was so much more for me on the other side of drinking every night. And so I’m just. Yeah. So, so blessed to get to talk about this.

Leanne Vogel [00:05:02]

Yes. And this is something, before we press record, something that I experienced personally. I moved on to a sailboat and the sailboat community drinks a lot. And I was noticing that I was drinking every night, like two to six drinks a night, and it just got out of hand. And so for me, it was a very clear thing. But you just mentioned gray area drinking. Can you explain what that means and what that looks like?

Christy Osborne [00:05:28]

Yeah, I mean, I don’t think There’s. There’s enough, like, an official definition to it. A lot of the kind of medical community is moving away from this idea of alcoholic because there isn’t actually a specific, one specific gene. That’s not to say that genes don’t account for addiction and all of that. However, there’s not one specific gene. And so when I was going through my own journey like that, like, being an alcoholic wasn’t something that I personally related to, but, like, I was kind of stuck in this gray area, right, where I wasn’t physically dependent. I wouldn’t have, like, class, like, qualified for a medical detox. I wasn’t drinking first thing in the morning in order to, like, function, but I was drinking, like, sounds like very similar to you, where it was like between two and five, six glasses of wine a night, and everyone around me was drinking the same way.

Christy Osborne [00:06:16]

And so it was really confusing to be like, wait, are we all. Are we all something? Like, do we all need to kind of look at this, or is this normal? That’s why I love kind of this idea of the gray area drinking. Right? It’s not like you’re just having one glass of wine on your birthday once a year or a couple at holidays. It’s like you’re drinking regularly, regularly, but you not. You’re not necessarily, like, going to need a full medical intervention. Detox. It looks like a lot like women, right, in our 30s, 40s, 50s, who are drinking wine at home.

Leanne Vogel [00:06:49]

And so why are we. Why are we doing this? I know for me, it was a social pressure thing of just everyone around me was doing it, so I was doing it. But I know that there are some ladies that just. It’s a way to unwind. What are some of the common things that. Why women are drinking the way that we’re drinking?

Christy Osborne [00:07:07]

Yeah. I love this so much, and this is what I really dive into a lot in the book. It’s like, what is the job that you’re giving to alcohol? That is like the primary question to, like, figure out, like, the unmet need or the job. What are you assigning to that glass of wine? Right. And it’s so funny because I coach women every day, and even though we’re all so, so different, our reasons end up being the same. It’s either for connection or for rest or to ease anxiety or to have fun, to deal with really hard emotions. You know, part of my story is I dealt. I drank to deal with really heavy grief after losing my own mom.

Christy Osborne [00:07:44]

And so we assign a lot of jobs to Alcohol. And it’s really getting like under the hood of that idea, that subconscious belief and figuring out if it’s true or not. Is alcohol really doing the thing that we’re drinking it for?

Leanne Vogel [00:08:00]

And is that in your book you talk about the identification of triggers. Would you say that that kind of falls in line with the trigger aspect or are there other aspects of triggers, part of that?

Christy Osborne [00:08:11]

Yeah. So there’s kind of two different things here, right? There’s like the why behind why we drink and then there’s the things that come up, pop up that can like trigger a craving for a drink. And so by that I mean like one type of trigger, right, is exposure. Like you walk into a party and you’re handed a glass of champagne. That would be an exposure to trigger or a temporal trigger, like the weather. You know, I’ve got clients that are like, I drink on my patio every single day of summer and it’s that combination of the weather and the patio that is like a trigger for them. But then there’s also the why, right? Like why are you going to have a drink on the patio? Is it because you’re ultimately seeking rest, you know, or like to the point of walking into the party with the champagne, with the exposure trigger? Is that because you’re trying to ease anxiety or heighten your ability to connect socially? So yeah, they go definitely hand in hand. But like talking about it, having this conversation is so important because I know, especially for me, when we’re stuck in the drinking cycle, like, we don’t even take the time to ask these questions.

Christy Osborne [00:09:19]

Like we don’t take the time to ask why am I drinking? Or what do I really need? Or is there a reason, or is there a way that like, I can minimize triggers if I feel like I do want to drink less? Because we’re kind of like stuck in this perpetual survival state of like feeling icky, knowing that we should probably stop. But then you have that well oiled neural pathway in our head that’s just like, okay, you’re stressed or you need a, you need a break. And wine is kind of this easy button answer because of the way that it elicits our dopamine response. And so, yeah, the really loaded answer, sorry and all over the place. But I get really, I get really good.

Leanne Vogel [00:09:58]

I love it, I love it. Okay, so I’ve had the opportunity to work with a lot of women over 15 years in the functional wellness space and I haven’t been able to understand if I can point in their blood work and I can show them that their body is being affected by the alcohol, that their symptoms that they have come to me with being affected by the alcohol, and I outline this clearly, and they stop drinking for 30 days and they feel better. And then they come to me and say, leanne, I need a drink. I need to drink. I need you to open up my protocol. I need to have three drinks a week. And I say, like, you’re going to have the symptoms again. And they just don’t care.

Leanne Vogel [00:10:42]

Can you help me understand what’s happening there? Because I have not been able to understand this thing. And it’s not just one woman. It’s many, many, many conversations that I’ve had. It’s the same pattern over and over and over again. That they know that it’s affecting them. They. Those effects are, you know, real, and they choose to have them because they want the alcohol. Can you help me understand this?

Christy Osborne [00:11:08]

Well, I mean, I totally, completely relate to all those women because I was that woman. I worked. I worked with a functional nutritionist after the birth of my son. And I literally said to her, you can literally tell me to do anything. I will do anything to lose this baby weight, but I will not give up my red wine at night. I just won’t do it. So I totally relate. And this is the thing, is that we have all this subconscious data, like, all of these reasons that we think that we like to drink.

Christy Osborne [00:11:35]

And to the point of, like, these clients of yours, we don’t. What we don’t have is enough data to the opposite, right? So let’s say I believe that I really, really need a giant glass of red wine, which I did in order to rest at the end of the day or to, you know, ease that anxiety, all of that stuff. I only have the data in my brain, in my subconscious that that is true because of the 30 minutes that of high basically, that you get after a glass of wine, right? So I drink to relax. I get 30 minutes of relaxation. We have a, you know, then a neural pathway in our brains that says, okay, rest, I need rest. Drink the wine. But what we don’t have is the opposite of that, of getting rest and, like, true relaxation, not drinking. So you have to do all the things that you’re doing in life without alcohol in order to gather the data that you will feel better.

Christy Osborne [00:12:31]

Right? And so one of the examples I always give is I literally thought that red wine helped me sleep at night. And so I would drink red wine because I thought it helped me sleep. I didn’t learn. And it didn’t clock for me that red wine was completely hijacking my sleep until I did a deep dive on all of this, right. I realized it was totally hacking my REM sleep. I was actually, actually not resting at all properly. And so I read about it, I read the science. Just like you’re talking to your clients, right, and you’re giving them the information.

Christy Osborne [00:12:59]

But what I had to do is I had to sleep without wine. And when I started to sleep with that wine and I started to actually get the true rest, I was like, oh, that reason for me having the drink is now not valid. And so it just takes a lot of practice and doing the thing and it’s hard, right? And you’re battling against a highly addictive drug. So that’s, I mean, that’s just like that tiny elephant in the room, right? Like it actually is a highly addictive drug. It makes us want to drink more. And we think that it’s giving us all these things and we don’t have any other information, any data to say otherwise. So it’s like almost like you’re playing this game of life with half of the deck of cards, right? Like you know all of this information about what life is like as a drinker, but you don’t know any of what life is like as a non drinker because you’ve never done it before. And that’s scary.

Christy Osborne [00:13:49]

That, that’s really, really scary because it’s different. But if you can get to the point, right, where that fear of change is less than the, like the fear of staying the same. And that’s why, that’s why it takes some people, not all. And I really want to emphasize not all because I was one of those people. I didn’t have a rock bottom. But that’s why it sometimes takes people to get to this kind of like rock bottom moment because it’s like, oh, wait, maybe this isn’t great.

Leanne Vogel [00:14:15]

Absolutely. And do you think, like, if you’re using alcohol for connection and the idea of rest and to deal with anxiety and in your case deal with the loss of your mom, like if you’re not dealing with those things and you’re using alcohol in its place, is there just like a lot wrapped up in this that it’s, it’s work?

Christy Osborne [00:14:38]

Yeah. Well, and also we’re not taught to do this as women, right? Like, who taught us to ever sit with our feelings and actually like deal with them and name them them and work on them? No, we were taught the opposite from when we were like little girls. Right. We were taught, like, you’re crying. Like, stop. Make it go away. Like, let’s fix this hard emotion as quick as possible. You’re mad, make it stop.

Christy Osborne [00:15:00]

You’re sad, make it stop. And so as adult women, then it’s like, we end up. Our wine is our best friend. Right? Because it’s that thing that can have that instant, like, change of state, instant change of emotion. And so, yes, 100 to your point. Point. Like, sitting with emotions is really, really hard because we’ve never done it before. And this is.

Christy Osborne [00:15:18]

This is the stuff, by the way, that I totally geek out over. And I love because, like, push comes to shove, and I’m sure you’ve seen this in all the other areas of your practice that have to do with health. It’s about so much more than just, like, eating keto or not drinking. Right. It’s about, okay, sitting with these uncomfortable emotions, like, learning how to set boundaries, learning what you really need. All these things that sound like really hard work, and they are. But I really want to emphasize that it’s work that we get to do. It’s not work that we have to do.

Christy Osborne [00:15:48]

This is all such a gift. It’s such a gift.

Leanne Vogel [00:15:51]

Yes, absolutely. Even the reframing, like, when I’m driving to the gym and I don’t want to go, and I’m like, oh, I just could go back to bed or, like, literally do anything. Like, I get to move my body as. As somebody who has a mother who has Parkinson’s, who can’t move her body the same way that she did in her 30s, 40s, 50s, I get to move my body this way. And I don’t know when that will change. And even just that quick reframe is enough to be like, yeah, even if maybe my lift isn’t going to be great today or XYZ is going to happen that I might not be thrilled about. At least I get to move my body in this way. And I agree with you.

Leanne Vogel [00:16:29]

I think it’s all about conscious decision making. Like, last night, my husband and I were watching tv, and I made a conscious choice to have more snacks than I knew I needed. And I made a decision. I was like, I know that I’m overeating at this point. I’m choosing this. I know it’ll probably make me feel more full. I probably won’t have the best sleep, but I really want this. So I’m making this decision.

Leanne Vogel [00:16:53]

And that is so different than just turning my brain off and eating the thing because I’m dealing with some other thing. Do you know what I’m saying?

Christy Osborne [00:17:02]

Yes, so, so much. And in that case too, it’s like when you recognize that there is a conscious choice, right? It then allows you not to go down the shame trap, right? Like, because if we’re in the shame trap, we’re in this like primitive survival part of our brain where like we’re just, we, we just need to survive and so we can’t make good conscious choices. And so, yeah, I love that so, so much. And I think it ties into over like, you know, eating too much or drinking, right? It’s like if you stay feeling like you’re just doing this automatic, like, you know, automatic thing and that then you feel all this shame about it that’s going to keep you stuck for longer. But if you can stay rooted and grace and curiosity and conscious choice, like, I just love that so much.

Leanne Vogel [00:17:50]

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Leanne Vogel [00:19:22]

So how, how is alcohol affecting our bodies? Like you mentioned dopamine, like let’s, let’s get into it. What’s happening when we have that alcohol?

Christy Osborne [00:19:32]

Yeah, so many things. I mean the one, the one thing that I feel. Well, there’s a lot of things, but one of the things that I feel like the average kind of woman does not know is how alcohol is affecting our anxiety and that. And by that I mean our cortisol and adrenaline levels because we use it like, one of the main reasons we use it is for like de. Stressing and relaxing. But what ends up happening is we end up with these elevated cortisol levels and elevated adrenaline. Adrenaline levels. And it.

Christy Osborne [00:20:01]

That stays within our system for up to seven to 10 days after. And so what you’re doing when you’re feeling really, really stressed and drinking is you’re drinking to like manage this withdrawal. And so that is one of the things that like my clients say all over and over again. It’s just like, life isn’t as stressful. It’s actually not as difficult Right. As we think it is because we’re just basically like dousing ourselves in this cortisol spiker. And so of course you’re, you know, it’s making you feel. Feel more stressed.

Christy Osborne [00:20:32]

The other thing it’s doing as we. I kind of briefly mentioned is like totally hijacking our sleep where we don’t. When we’re, when we’ve had a drink. And this goes for just one drink, by the way. It does affect our deep REM sleep. And that’s the sleep that we need for our bodies and brains to be restored at night. And so when you’re, when you’re drinking, you’re just not getting that rest. And that was one of the first things.

Christy Osborne [00:20:56]

It’s also one of the first things my clients say is like, when they start to sleep. This probably happened to you too, right? Like, you just like, you’re like, oh, wait, this actually feels really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To not sleep. Yeah, to sleep properly. I mean.

Leanne Vogel [00:21:11]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think too just even the connections we make when alcohol is at the center of a relationship, they’re not like meaningful connections.

Christy Osborne [00:21:23]

Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:21:23]

Do you notice that too? It’s like all the people that I knew while I was drinking and we would go out and have a drink, I no longer am friends with those people because we actually had nothing in common.

Christy Osborne [00:21:35]

Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, I’m glad you said that because that can be really scary. And that was actually my biggest fear. Like, I remember standing in the shower like a couple weeks in and being like, oh my gosh, if I keep going and I continue with my life alcohol free, like, who is going to stay around? Like, am I going to have any friends? Because I really did not have one friend that didn’t drink at that time. And I call it the friendship Shuffle. Like, friendships definitely shuffled. But the true and meaningful connections that I have found are completely different.

Christy Osborne [00:22:08]

Right. It’s really hard. Is it really hard for you to do, like, small talk with people? Like, I can’t even deal anymore. Yeah, it’s boring.

Leanne Vogel [00:22:15]

It’s.

Leanne Vogel [00:22:16]

It’s so hard. Like, so we have a group of friends who don’t drink, and whenever they want to hang out, we’re like, yeah, let’s go. Even if I’m tired or whatever, like, I want to have dinner with you. I want to connect. And then we have a group of friends who drink and they invite us out, and I’m. I will make up every excuse not to go because it’s not that I don’t want to see them. It’s that I don’t want to be in that big group where everyone’s drinking and I just. I don’t like small talk.

Leanne Vogel [00:22:41]

It’s not. It’s not. There’s literally no point. Like, it’s just a waste of my time. So that’s how I feel about that.

Christy Osborne [00:22:47]

Yeah, totally. Totally. And that can, like, seem scary. But then when you get confident at it and you’re able to, like, start setting boundaries for the first time. Right. Like, the joke slash truth, I guess, that I always make is like, I stopped going to, like, PTA events and class drinks because it was just so stupid to stand around a bar and, like, talk small talk about, like, one upping each other’s kid and sports and all this stuff. And I’m like. I just like, no, I’m not.

Christy Osborne [00:23:15]

I’m good.

Leanne Vogel [00:23:17]

But even that concept, I guess, is scary as you’re starting to come to terms. Like, I’m thinking of the woman listening right now who’s like, oh, shoot. Yeah, maybe I actually am using alcohol in these ways of, you know, trying to deal with anxiety, thinking that it’s giving me rest, helping me connect to people, but actually, I’m not actually connecting with them. And what is the meaning of life and what am I doing and who am I going to connect with if those people aren’t around? It’s like we fill our lives with all this emptiness that doesn’t really mean anything. Is that a big thing that keeps us stuck in this space of thinking, like, this is as good as it gets?

Christy Osborne [00:23:55]

Yeah. I mean, I think that that fear right there, like, you hit the nail on the head, right? It’s again, it kind of goes back to the fear of change. But this is the thing that comes with, like, courage and developing and, like, growing is we have to do things a little bit different in order to see if things are better on the other side. And so this is why I’m like really passionate about talking about this topic also in a really, really grace filled, self compassion way. Because we need that in order to like address this thing. Because everybody around us is drinking. Right. Like, and so I would say to the woman that feels alone and that doesn’t feel like they might have any other friends that like, just try, even if you’re the first mover in your circle, you might give a permission for another girlfriend of yours to like take that the night off.

Christy Osborne [00:24:47]

Right. It happened to me where like several friends just stopped drinking and I was like, wait, what? They’re like, oh, yeah, I just saw that you could do it so I can do it. Right. Or you make new friends because you’re actually able to turn up to the Pilates class and talk to people in the morning.

Leanne Vogel [00:25:04]

Absolutely. So how does this, how does this influence a relationship? Like, I’m thinking of so many women are married to their husbands who are also drinking. And I know, I’ve seen that dynamic play out with my parents where my mom stopped drinking, my dad continued to drink. How do we navigate that? Because it’s, it’s harder when it’s that. When it’s your person that you see day in and day out.

Christy Osborne [00:25:29]

Totally, 100%. I talk a lot about this in the book. When I stopped drinking, the first thing I said to my husband, Chris. Chris was like, I just, I don’t know what this means, but I just need to take a break. So can we just like not drink in the house for a little bit? Right. This is right before COVID and then everything, you know, everything hit the fan. But he continues to drink. It’s a lot less.

Christy Osborne [00:25:48]

But in the beginning when he was still drinking, our marriage just got better because I wasn’t drinking. So there wasn’t like these stupid little fights. Like we were, you know, we’ve been married now for 16 years. We were getting in stupid fights all the time. I always tell the story about, I would go to bed and I would like try to make a list of reasons I was angry in my phone so that when I woke up the next morning, I could recite them and win the argument. It’s so stupid.

Leanne Vogel [00:26:14]

I’ve done that. I have literally done that. Yep.

Christy Osborne [00:26:17]

Yeah. I’m so glad you said that. It’s not just me. And so like there was just no petty fighting. There was a lot more patience. Right. Like I was just feeling better in myself and therefore like I was like a much probably nicer person to be around. And so, you know, that whole like saying of like, just keep your side of the street clean and you never know what’s gonna happen.

Christy Osborne [00:26:38]

It’s one of the fears that I hear so often from clients. And the funny thing is, is that it almost like never goes the way that we expect it to go. You know, I mean I can think of like two right now off the top of my head that were so nervous about their husbands and they’re now like, you know, six, eight months on this journey and now their husbands are like drinking a lot less and kind of asking questions. And, and so yeah, I mean we also just know so much more nowadays about what this does to our health. Right. Like alcohol is a Class 1 carcinogen right up there with tobacco and asbestos and like all of that stuff. And we know it’s one of the top three, you know, causes of preventable death in the U.S. like all this stuff that we were fed when we were kids that it’s good for our heart has been completely debunked.

Christy Osborne [00:27:26]

You know, this idea of like being this European drinker who has a glass of wine with dinner. Like now they’re looking at that and seeing the, you know, the, the alcohol deaths are really high in Europe. Like and so I don’t know. So we’re just know like we have so much more research now. We know about the seven different like types of cancer for women. It’s, it’s directly linked to breast cancer which is one of those things that like most of us don’t know because anyways we can go get into the whole like big alcohol and their pervasive messaging towards us on a whole nother episode. But we just have a lot of information now. And so I think also when we’re dealing with, with our husbands, like if you come with like in a really grace filled way, right.

Christy Osborne [00:28:08]

Science and like facts and being like, okay, well this is what it does to us and, and all of that. I think they can also be receptive. But you’ve got to do it in a way where it’s completely non judgmental. Right. Because this is something that we’ve, if you’ve been stuck, you know, right. You don’t want to give it up.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:24]

Absolutely. And I think too there’s a very, what I’m hearing you say, it’s a very different process of going to your husband and saying we’re stopping drinking. This is terrible for us. I’ve removed all the alcohol from the house. We both suck and we need to do better. And the opposite to that would be, I’m choosing to stop drinking. Here are the reasons why. And leading by example, that’s what I personally did.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:49]

And my husband doesn’t drink anymore either. But it can be hard to kind of go through that initial push for yourself. How does willpower play into this? Like, do you just need a lot of willpower? So when you’re watching your friends drinking, you’re like, I don’t need it. Get behind me, Satan. Or like, what? What? Like, what are we doing here to, like, forge us forward and keep us on this path?

Christy Osborne [00:29:14]

Yeah, I want to. I want to go. Want to talk about the willpower thing, because I love it so much. But I also want to say to your point of, like, you know, coming to it and being like, okay, hey, babe, we’re stopping. Last year I wrote an article for Grazia magazine, it’s magazine here in the uk. And it was about, like, mommy wine culture and, like, how alcohol is actually not helping us be good, like, good moms. It’s actually hurting us. And I got like, crazy, crazy backlash on social media saying, I must not be a mother.

Christy Osborne [00:29:43]

I don’t stand for women, all this stuff. And I got really upset at first because I was like, no, this is so not my message. But then I put myself in the shoes of, like, if I was scrolling on my phone and I saw another mom saying, like, you don’t need wine, I’d be like, who the heck does this woman think she is? Right? Because if you’re not ready, you’re not ready. And so that’s why it has to come from a place of gracing a fashion and being ready. And then to your point about willpower, like, willpower is the same reason diets don’t work, right? We don’t have. We don’t have enough of it. It’s like a battery on our dying iPhone. Like, at the end of the day, it is done.

Christy Osborne [00:30:20]

It’s why you wake up in the morning at like, you know, 7:00am and you’re like, I’m not going to drink tonight. But by the end of the day, you’re exhausted and you’re in that fight or flight, and you’re just like, whatever is going to get me through. So that’s why we have to get behind, like, under the hood to figure out the reasons why you’re drinking, and then with grace and compassion, figure out if those reasons aren’t true or not. Right? Like, my whole thing Is that if you want to cut back or stop drinking, like, let’s get to the desire. Because if you lose the desire to drink, you don’t have to play with willpower at all, because the desire is just not there. And so, yeah, I don’t want. I didn’t want to be in a place of, like, feeling like I was deprived and I was missing out. And I think that that’s what the willpower battle ends up doing to us.

Christy Osborne [00:31:05]

And we. Then we’d feel like failures, right? And we feel like failures because we couldn’t do it because we don’t have enough willpower. And then you get into the whole shame thing that we talked about. And so, yeah, yeah, completely.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:15]

I realized probably about two years ago that I didn’t trust myself to make life changes, that I would commit to myself. I’m going to do xyz, and then I would like a really bad friend not show up to that commitment. And I realized that if I set those. If a friend were to say, hey, Leanne, we’re gonna go do this thing, and they don’t show up, and they don’t show up, and they don’t show up, I’m gonna stop being friends with that person because they’re just not making me a priority and just understanding that I view myself the same way and I need to commit to something and follow through with something. And when I commit to a friend, you know, the Bible tells us, make your yes be yes and your nos be no’s. So if I commit to something, I want to follow through. And that’s been a really helpful tool for me as I move forward with certain goals of, like, I’ve committed to this. I want to be a good friend to myself, like, I would expect of somebody else.

Leanne Vogel [00:32:13]

And even that little shift has been really helpful for me because I know, you know, with. With my history of an eating disorder, I remember I would wake up in the morning and be like, today is going to be a good day, even though I really screwed up yesterday. And by the end of the day, I’d be right back in the same cycle over and over and over and over. And you’re right, willpower was not enough. I needed to go under the hood and truly understand, like, what is driving this forward. Because me saying I’m just going to commit to something different is not helpful. Like, there’s a route to this. What are you finding? Like, we talked about some of the roots of feeling like we’re using alcohol for rest, connection, dealing with anxiety, creating quote, unquote connections that aren’t really that great.

Leanne Vogel [00:33:01]

Are there other things that you’re seeing when we lift up that hood that maybe we haven’t touched on when it comes to relying on alcohol day in and day out?

Christy Osborne [00:33:09]

Yeah. I always wanted to do your question, but you said something so good, like, just right back there. So the whole idea of just, like, we are, like, who are the women that we want to be, right? Like, when you’re. You said you’re like, you’re your friend and you’re, like, letting yourself down. Like, this is the thing, it’s like, what makes us women tick and what do we value mostly in our life? Like, who do we want to be? And I feel like alcohol also just chips away at that. And so, like, looking at this is just such a great way to then increase your confidence, right? And start trusting yourself. But another reason I feel like alcohol gets used and was one, definitely one for me, is to have fun, right? And that has to do with that, like, dopamine response, where you get that temporary, like, it’s actually a 20 minute, 30 minute, like, buzz high, and you end up relying on that for fun. But the science behind this is so fascinating because what happens when you ingest dopamine, you know, via alcohol, or you get that.

Christy Osborne [00:34:05]

That dopamine from alcohol is you end up getting a counteracting chemical called dinorphin. You probably know all this, but that brings you down, right? And so you want to have fun, but you’re actually being, like, pumped with this, like, depressant sedative. And if you’re a regular drinker, your brain, like, gets used to just, like, letting that hormone go. And so we want to have fun, but we’re actually, like, totally zapping ourselves of our joy, right? Like, I was in a place in my life where, like, nothing was fun unless alcohol was involved. And I mean, nothing like going to my daughter’s ballet recital. I was like, when can we get a drink? Right? Or, like, going to my son’s baseball game, like, where are the cocktails? Right? And it’s like that. That it’s a. It’s a loop that you end up getting in a hamster wheel.

Christy Osborne [00:34:55]

And you think that you need to have the alcohol to have fun, but what you’re really doing is just, like, robbing yourself of being able to, like, experience, like, real joy because you’ve, like, totally hijacked your dopamine response. And so that’s one of those things, too, where you learn about it and I can tell you about it, and you can read about it, but when you go and you experience it and you feel it and you’re like, oh, like I am looking at the sunshine in the park and it is beautiful and I’m feeling joy today, like, oh, this is what it feels like to like have a regulated nervous system and have a regulated dopamine response. So, yeah, I mean, basically all the reasons that we drink, it does the opposite. Which is crazy, isn’t it?

Leanne Vogel [00:35:36]

Like, you just get stuck in this loop. I know, like with my mom having Parkinson’s, which is a lack of dopamine, watching that kind of like long term depletion of dopamine in the brain has been, I want to say, fascinating from like a practitioner standpoint, because it is quite fascinating, but it’s hard to watch. And you don’t think that dopamine, like, I mean, I learned this in school, like, whoop dee doo, dopamine. But like, it’s really important. Like you’re, you’re exactly right. Being able to just. Even the dopamine also helps us have that like, drive. Like the oomph in our lives is the dopamine.

Leanne Vogel [00:36:14]

Like the willingness to try new things and to be exciting and to have fun. Like, that’s dopamine. And so you’re so right. It’s like we are chasing this alcohol that gives us that dopamine kick, but that depletes our dopamine, which does the exact opposite of the things that we want. We’re less fun, we’re less exciting, we’re less oomph. And so it’s so true. You’re just on this roller coaster ride. Absolutely.

Leanne Vogel [00:36:39]

Couldn’t agree with you more on that.

Christy Osborne [00:36:40]

And just like to hop in there too. Like the other thing too that is wild is serotonin. Right. Because which is made in actually the gut. And when we drink alcohol, it totally screws with our gut microbiome. And so we’re, we’re again, we’re putting ourselves in a place where we’re going to come out with worse. A worse mood because of lack of serotonin. So again, it’s like, let’s drink to be happy and fun.

Christy Osborne [00:37:04]

But what we’re doing is we’re actually killing all the things.

Leanne Vogel [00:37:07]

And yet even with us saying all of this stuff, you’re saying it’s not enough for change.

Christy Osborne [00:37:12]

Well, right, so. Because I would, I’d be listening to this as a drinker or maybe someone that’s like, oh, I probably need to cut back. And I’d be like, okay, that all sounds Good. But, but feeling this stuff is what then it, then it’s like, okay, I understand what she’s saying and maybe if I have another day of like not drinking, I’ll feel even better, right? But then not getting to a place where you have a couple days alcohol free and then you have a drink and then have beating yourself up and acting like it’s all over and you can’t make this change, right? It’s just, okay, I made that conscious choice. Can I make another different conscious choice to feel better? And so that’s also a question that I love so much is like, and it sounds so basic, but like, how do you want to feel? How do you want to feel today? Move from that, make your conscious choices from that. If you want to feel rested and connected and all those things, how’s alcohol going to help? And as you go through this, you obviously realize that, like, I don’t want to say obvious because it’s a, it’s a lot of work, but you end up, you end up feeling it.

Leanne Vogel [00:38:13]

Yes. I couldn’t agree with you more. I remember a coach while I was overcoming the eating disorder stuff, had me choose like three words, like three things that I wanted to feel like. I don’t remember all of them, but I still hold on to one, which is adventure. Adventure is really important to me. And so when I would go throughout my day, I would kind of filter through my decisions based on these three words. If I want to feel adventurous. Is committing to a three month long thing cause me to feel adventurous or the opposite of adventurous? And when you kind of filter through, okay, this is how I want to feel, does this opportunity align with how I want to feel? If it’s a yes or no, you can kind of filter it.

Leanne Vogel [00:38:57]

Is that kind of what you’re saying? Like, yeah, if I want to feel, you know, rested, I know that long term alcohol is not going to make me feel rested. So I’m making a decision to not drink the alcohol because it’s not going to make me feel rested. Kind of.

Christy Osborne [00:39:10]

No, totally. And sometimes what I’ll do with clients is I’ll make them like a little backdrop like thing for their phone where it literally just says I want to feel more energized, more patient, calm, Right. Or clear headed or whatever it is. And I’m like, move from that. Is alcohol gonna help with that tonight? Like make, then you get to make the choice and you get to make the choice to discover whether all of this like data we have, one direction is really true or not. Right. Because that’s the bottom line. Like we’ve just been, we’ve been sold and we’ve learned like a lot of things that take examining.

Leanne Vogel [00:39:48]

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Leanne Vogel [00:40:22]

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Leanne Vogel [00:40:53]

So where do they get caught up? Like when you’re working with a client and like I’m thinking of the listener right now, she’s like, okay, yeah, actually I’m definitely using alcohol in this way. I hear what you’re saying about it being bad for me. I understand that. I don’t really care to give it a try. Like where are they getting hung up in this process as they move forward with this, like what are the hang ups?

Christy Osborne [00:41:18]

I mean it’s so different from gal to gal. I have quite a few clients who will come to me and will like get like 3 months alcohol free under their belt. And that is because they’ve done a really good job of like setting boundaries and practicing. Let’s say they’re like doing life without alcohol in a certain way. So by that I mean like let’s say you’re a home drinker, you decided to like hold some pretty firm boundaries, stay home, say no to all the parties and not drink. And so you feel great after three months, but you haven’t kind of practiced then the social aspect, right? Or you haven’t then practiced like the vacate, the vacation or as we say over here in the uk the holiday. And so that ends up panicking them because they’re like, I’ve never Done this before without alcohol. And it’s like, well, exactly right? So just try it without alcohol and see.

Christy Osborne [00:42:11]

Just stay open, stay curious. Like, what if it’s okay? What are you assuming to be true about that vacation or that night out or that wedding without alcohol? What if you’re wrong? What if it’s just super awkward for 15 minutes while you say no to the glass of wine and then everything’s fine because, you know, because no one actually cares. And so it’s just like new things. I would say it’s new things that are popping up. And that’s why I really come from this place of like, if you have a drink after like a series of months or weeks or whatever it is of not drinking, like instead of calling that a slip up, we call it a growth point, right? Like, okay, what did you learn? How can we grow? Let’s figure out how to do it differently next time. And so, yeah, it’s just, it’s just, it’s just planning and trying things differently.

Leanne Vogel [00:42:56]

So you mentioned, you know, saying no to the parties and kind of like changing out lifestyle. I’m sure somebody listening was like, so I’m never going to go to a party again. Like, this is stupid. I’m out. Maybe they, maybe they’re gone. Maybe they’re listening anymore.

Christy Osborne [00:43:12]

I hope you’re not. No, so what I meant by that is like, you know, in the beginning, if you really are committed to kind of figuring out how you feel without alcohol, like sometimes you might have to say no to those things in the beginning just to get those like initial days under your belt. But by no means do I want everybody not to go out and not have fun. I’m saying the opposite of that. I’m just saying it takes, it takes practice. And I actually have had the opposite, right where I’ve had a client that like gets so good. She’s, from the very beginning, she starts saying no to alcohol on a night out. Or if you’re a really busy corporate gal, that’s like in the situation where you’re entertaining clients and stuff with alcohol all the time and they get really good at that.

Christy Osborne [00:43:53]

And then their thing is like, shoot, I can’t sit at home alone without wanting the alcohol. Or I need the relief drink when I get home from that party or that corporate, you know, work event, because I feel like I just am, you know, I need a reward. And so it’s different for everybody. But no, by no means do I say you become a hermit. Like, no, that’s not what I’m saying at all. It just takes practice and everyone’s unique, right? And this is why it’s fun to have a coach, because you get to play with all this stuff and figure out what works best for you.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:23]

And it sounds like fun may look different. Like, have you noticed that like what you thought was fun, that was, you know, what you mentioned, like grabbing a cocktail at XYZ time is no longer fun. So you’re doing other activities that are now fun to you and they don’t revolve around alcohol, but you’re still having a good time, is that fair to say?

Christy Osborne [00:44:43]

100%. And this is the thing, it’s a learning. It’s learning, right? And so, so it’s learning what that is. And that takes a little bit of time, but that also can be fun. I mean, I had a client who was like, I have been drinking since high school, I don’t even know what I like, right? And so I’ve had gals that have gone back to like dance class or even like gone and tried pottery or whatever it is. And just like figuring out what you like that actually lights you up. Because alcohol gives us like this artificial level of dopamine, meaning it’s super high that our bodies can’t make it. But when we start getting dopamine from these things that we actually enjoy, then it’s like, oh, this is actually feels really nice.

Christy Osborne [00:45:22]

And just. It’s learning, right? It’s learning what that is. But I mean, but right before we, we hit record, I was telling you I was at the Taylor Swift concert last night with my 14 year old daughter and I just, that’s not something. Of course going to a concert, I’d be like, yeah, where are the drinks going with her staying present and just like having a blast. Dancing our butts off for three and a half hours like was not something that I thought would be fun or without alcohol. But I had to try it.

Leanne Vogel [00:45:50]

Yes, absolutely. So I, I have been known to be that girl at the bar, dancing, totally sober, having the best time and I actually have more fun not drinking and I remember the whole thing and I’m able to just like really just have a fun time. And I know everyone around me is not going to remember anything because they’re all trashed. And so, you know, like sometimes it’s nice to just. What you’re saying is like go back into those environments where you thought that you needed alcohol in order to manage it. Once you get like a good handle on things and you’re actually able to have a Good time without the alcohol is what I’m hearing you say.

Christy Osborne [00:46:27]

Totally. And you bring up such a good point. Right. Because in that scenario of maybe feeling awkward because you didn’t want to dance at the bar or at the wedding or whatever, it’s. It’s very much like, oh, my gosh, what are other people going to think? Right. But to your point, they are not noticing. They don’t notice. They do not care.

Christy Osborne [00:46:46]

And so why in the world are we going to drink a Class 1 carcinogen? Like, to make other people feel better about us or our dancing?

Leanne Vogel [00:46:54]

Yes, absolutely. I was actually thinking about that today. I was doing ab workouts, and some lady had put the seven and a half pounds in her little pile of all the things and she was doing something else, and it was like minutes where she wasn’t using them. And I thought to myself, like, why am I limiting my workout to make her comfortable with something she’s not even using?

Christy Osborne [00:47:15]

Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:16]

And so I walked right up there and I said, can I just use those seven and a half? She’s like, oh, yeah, I’m not using them. I’m like, I would have done my whole workout with fives.

Christy Osborne [00:47:23]

Yeah.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:24]

Because I didn’t want to make her uncomfortable. Like, why do we do that? Like, it. No, I’m going to take up space. I’m going to go there. I’m going to ask her if I can use it. And she was like, yeah, of course. And I’m like, great. Awesome.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:34]

Now I got to work my abs harder. Like, I don’t know why we stay in our head with so many things.

Christy Osborne [00:47:41]

Yeah, it’s so true. I mean, that’s just going down. The whole, like, people pleasing. Right. And just being concerned about what other people think. When that is like, the last thing on the whole entire world that we can control is what other people think and feel.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:55]

Right, Exactly. So is this. Is this zero alcohol forever, or do you think that there’s a reality that exists where you have a little bit or, like, what’s your take on that?

Christy Osborne [00:48:05]

So, I mean, every single person is different. For me personally, like, I don’t have the desire to drink because I don’t see any benefit to it. So, like, I don’t think I’m gonna drink, like, probably forever, but nobody has to use the word forever. I think it’s if you get to a point where, like, you really want to have a glass of wine, have the glass of wine, and then maybe if it doesn’t feel good, you can make a different choice the next Time, right? Like, I actually was, what’s happening with a client the other day? And she was like, oh, there’s this new family that we met. And I really wanted to make them feel welcome. And so I had the glass of wine, but like, I really. Christy, I just, I don’t enjoy it anymore. And she’s like, I feel like I’m not there.

Christy Osborne [00:48:45]

And I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, let’s rewind for a second and let’s talk about what you just said. You just told me that you realize you don’t enjoy it anymore. I don’t care if you have the drink. And like, or not. The fact that you said you don’t enjoy it is the most amazing realization because it means you can make a different choice next time if you want, you know, so it’s just, it’s what, like, what makes you feel good. And when you have, I think, and you’ve experienced this too, probably enough alcohol free days under your belt, you realize, like, why in the world would I ever drink again? Why?

Leanne Vogel [00:49:15]

Well, there’s also this, like, sometimes if the mood strikes, you know, like, I’m on a beautiful beach and the sun is shining and I’m like, I want like a cider or beer or something and I order it and I take a sip, I’m like, like, this ain’t it. Like, in my mind I thought that this was going to be so refreshing and be like the topping on the cake, but it lacks the oomph that I was expecting. And so there’s all those preconceived ideas of feelings and all that stuff wrapped up in there. But I can, I can relate to that 100%. I’ve done that a couple times. In fact, Recently I went to Canada. My dad and I were having burgers and I was like, oh, it’d be so great to have a beer. And I ordered a beer and I took a sip.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:54]

I’m like, no, still don’t like it. Nope. That. That ain’t it.

Christy Osborne [00:49:58]

Exactly, exactly. And coming to that from that place of just like, still being curious about it is, like, what it’s all about, right? Because there’s a lot of stigma in this field that would say then, like, now you’re, you’re back to day one, you’ve got to start counting days again. And like, now you’re at day one and all this stuff and it’s like, that. How is that serving anybody right? Like, let’s just, just try to do this differently to feel better. And if we do, then we get to. Again, I know I’ve said it a thousand times, but like making that, make that conscious choice. Yeah. And, and this is the thing too is now we’re in a day and age, right, where you can basically get anything that you want alcohol free.

Christy Osborne [00:50:37]

Right. A Corona Zero. Is that what it’s called in the States or.

Leanne Vogel [00:50:41]

I have no idea. I wouldn’t even know. I’m so boring.

Christy Osborne [00:50:44]

Everything is the same and it tastes like, especially with beer. I feel like they take the same and there’s so many options now. Their spirits are all alcohol free. Like you can get alcohol free gin. So like you can have it if you want and then you’re not going to feel like crap the next day.

Leanne Vogel [00:50:59]

Yeah, that’s the big thing is just how you feel after.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:02]

Do you feel like there was a.

Leanne Vogel [00:51:04]

Piece in your process and just what you see with ladies time and time again that you feel like we didn’t touch on that you maybe want to end today’s episode with. In regards to just like the lady that’s listening that feels like perhaps this is an issue or maybe they’re in the depths of this process. Do you have any words of wisdom for them?

Christy Osborne [00:51:24]

I actually recently put this question on my Instagram because I wanted to hear it from other people. Like, if you have three months more of alcohol free days under your belt, like, what would you say to the woman that’s like, kind of feels like they’re still stuck or trying? And so many people just said, just keep going, just keep going. You’re not alone. Especially like me if you feel like you’re the only one dealing with this, like, that is 100% not true. If you need community, like, reach out to me. And if you don’t want to, like work with me or get involved in any of my groups, I will find one for you. Like, I will help you find one because I don’t want anybody to feel alone because that’s how I felt. And so.

Christy Osborne [00:52:03]

And so. Yeah. And then just grace, grace, Grace, self compassion. Stay curious. Like, just, this is about you. This is a gift. Like, this is not something you have to do. This is something that you get to do.

Christy Osborne [00:52:15]

And moving that from that place of positive emotion as opposed to like deprivation and willpower and all that stuff, it just takes a load off and it makes this an enjoyable experience as opposed to like this really heavy, awful thing that you have to do.

Leanne Vogel [00:52:29]

Absolutely, Absolutely. Okay, where can people find more from you, connect with you? You have a podcast, you have a book. Tell us all the all the places, yes.

Christy Osborne [00:52:38]

So I don’t know when this is gonna drop, but my book, Love life sober a 40 day alcohol fast is coming out September 24th. I’m so excited. So you can get that everywhere. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, all the places. You can also get it on my website, which is lovelifesober.com and then the book is lovelifesober40day fast.com I have a podcast called But Jesus Drank Wine and Other Stories that Kept Us us Stuck. Which is exactly what it sounds like. We talk about all the stories that keep us stuck and then I’m on Instagram at Lovelife Sober with Christie.

Leanne Vogel [00:53:12]

I love it. I will include all the links in the show notes, so if you’re not sure where to go, just look in the show notes and everything will be there. Christie, thanks for coming on the show today.

Christy Osborne [00:53:20]

Thank you. That was so fun. That went really fast.

Leanne Vogel [00:53:24]

I really hope you enjoyed our conversation about quitting alcohol and the challenges of the gray area drinking mentality again. You can find out more from Christie by going to lovelife sober.co.uk and also her podcast but Jesus drank wine.com okay, we’ll see you back here next week Tuesday for another episode.

Leanne Vogel [00:53:46]

Bye.

Leanne Vogel [00:53:51]

Thanks for listening to the Helpful Pursuit Podcast. Join us next Tuesday for another episode of the show. If you’re looking for free resources, there are a couple of places you can go. The first to my blog, healthfulpursuit.com where you’re going to find loads of recipes. The second is a free parasite protocol that I’ve put together for you that outlines symptoms, testing and resources to determine whether or not you have a parasite, plus a full protocol to follow to eradicate them from your life if you need to. That’s available at Helpful Pursuit.com/ parasites and last but certainly not least, a full list of blood work markers to ask your doctor for so that you can get a full picture of your health. You can grab that free resource by going to healthfulpursuit.com labs. The helpful pursuit Podcast, including show notes and links, provides information in respect to healthy living recipes, nutrition and diet and is intended for informational purposes only.

Leanne Vogel [00:54:47]

The information provided is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor is it to be construed as such. We cannot guarantee that the information provided on the Healthful Pursuit podcast reflects the most up to date medical research. Information is provided without any representation or warranties of any kind. Please consult a qualified health practitioner with any questions you may have regarding your.

Leanne Vogel [00:55:09]

Health and nutrition program.

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