Inside Pre-K Comments http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/ These are our stories about teaching pre-kindergarten -- the lessons we teach our students and the lessons they and their families teach us. en-us 2009-07-06T18:17:50+00:00 syreeta comments on "Age vs. Development" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/Yl8iNUdwlts/age-vs-development.html I think that a cutoff date is good but there should be also a case by case exception. I have had one of my students go on to Kindergarten and only when they were celebrating her birthday did they realize that it was past the Oct. 1st deadline in my district. She was then sent back to pre-k for that extra year. I think that by then they should have let her stay in Kindergarten but my district adheres to the deadline. I think establishing a way to have children who are absolutely ready developmentally and can show it consistently enter before the deadline is great. I think that a cutoff date is good but there should be also a case by case exception. I have had one of my students go on to Kindergarten and only when they were celebrating her birthday did they realize that it was past the Oct. 1st deadline in my district. She was then sent back to pre-k for that extra year. I think that by then they should have let her stay in Kindergarten but my district adheres to the deadline. I think establishing a way to have children who are absolutely ready developmentally and can show it consistently enter before the deadline is great.

]]> syreeta 2009-06-18T16:20:36+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/06/age-vs-development.html#c6a00d83453044569e201157129d182970b Tammera comments on "This I Believe MEME..." http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/OWNg-eP257E/this-i-beleive.html Learn from preschoolers. Live, laugh, and teach them well because one day they will be grown up just like us. I beleive you should not ask what from a preschooler,but how to actively open their minds. Learn from preschoolers. Live, laugh, and teach them well because one day they will be grown up just like us. I beleive you should not ask what from a preschooler,but "how" to actively open their minds.

]]> Tammera 2009-05-31T19:02:55+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2008/08/this-i-beleive.html#c6a00d83453044569e2011570b43c20970b Stephanie Martin comments on "How Much is a Field Trip Worth?" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/3-ZSrPHrl-E/how-much-is-a-field-trip-worth.html I echo the same feelings as the previous comments. I live in a rural, largely impoverished community with a significant number of Children Left Behind with a huge racial academic gap. Field trips have been CUT to provide more hours in school preparing for benchmark exams. Sometimes I think we throw the baby out with the bathwater. So we have undertaken a mentoring program involving community people to get these kids exposed to the world outside our small community. These kids that are fortunate to experience this mentoring are blossoming and so are their grades. I thank you educators for the good work you do and the hard job you have. I echo the same feelings as the previous comments. I live in a rural, largely impoverished community with a significant number of "Children Left Behind" with a huge racial academic gap. Field trips have been CUT to provide more hours in school preparing for benchmark exams. Sometimes I think we throw the baby out with the bathwater. So we have undertaken a mentoring program involving community people to get these kids exposed to the world outside our small community. These kids that are fortunate to experience this mentoring are blossoming and so are their grades.

I thank you educators for the good work you do and the hard job you have.

]]> Stephanie Martin 2009-04-22T22:53:05+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/04/how-much-is-a-field-trip-worth.html#c6a00d83453044569e201156f4b9b67970c Gayle Turner comments on "How Much is a Field Trip Worth?" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/uhzPvIfdy4Q/how-much-is-a-field-trip-worth.html The truth of this piece makes you want to cry. In his new book, Outliers, Malcolm Gladwell speaks of the strides lower income children make in school and the losses they experience during vacations. Compared to middle upper income students whose families provide opportunities to see the world when not in school; school IS the window to the ... Read Moreworld for the poor. Our 9 month school system is founded on the 18th century concept of crop rotation. We needed to give the feilds a rest or wed exhaust them. Young brains lose what theyve gained when they lay fallow. We need to seriously reconsider our education system and its underlying assumptions. The truth of this piece makes you want to cry. In his new book, Outliers, Malcolm Gladwell speaks of the strides lower income children make in school and the losses they experience during vacations. Compared to middle & upper income students whose families provide opportunities to see the world when not in school; school IS the window to the ... Read Moreworld for the poor. Our 9 month school system is founded on the 18th century concept of crop rotation. We needed to give the feilds a rest or we'd exhaust them. Young brains lose what they've gained when they lay fallow. We need to seriously reconsider our education system and its underlying assumptions.

]]> Gayle Turner 2009-04-22T20:09:25+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/04/how-much-is-a-field-trip-worth.html#c6a00d83453044569e201156f4adb9c970c Allison comments on "How Much is a Field Trip Worth?" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/Z4_rlGkIAA4/how-much-is-a-field-trip-worth.html I teach middle school, but I believe that field trips are just as valuable for exactly the reasons you mentioned. My kids dont get to do enough of them, because of cost and planning time and a push for higher test scores, and that is such a loss to them. Next year Ill try to find a way to incorporate more. I teach middle school, but I believe that field trips are just as valuable for exactly the reasons you mentioned. My kids don't get to do enough of them, because of cost and planning time and a push for higher test scores, and that is such a loss to them. Next year I'll try to find a way to incorporate more.

]]> Allison 2009-04-22T07:07:58+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/04/how-much-is-a-field-trip-worth.html#c6a00d83453044569e20115703d47db970b Jonah comments on "How Much is a Field Trip Worth?" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/3Im_SmrmZps/how-much-is-a-field-trip-worth.html Thanks for writing this very important post. I think a lot of people dont realize how these children live and how little exposure there is for them to see, feel and experience nature. We really appreciate you mentioning our No Child Left Inside: Restoring Nature to Early Childhood symposium as well. Thanks for writing this very important post. I think a lot of people don't realize how these children live and how little exposure there is for them to see, feel and experience nature.
We really appreciate you mentioning our No Child Left Inside: Restoring Nature to Early Childhood symposium as well.

]]> Jonah 2009-04-21T14:25:04+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/04/how-much-is-a-field-trip-worth.html#c6a00d83453044569e201156f4034e0970c Karen Dahl comments on "Criss Cross Applesauce" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/_6rNQrmcBSM/criss-cross-applesauce.html Your post reminds me very much of Alfie Kohns philosophy in Unconditional Parenting. Its much harder to ask ourselves these questions, but in the end, so worth it. Your post reminds me very much of Alfie Kohn's philosophy in Unconditional Parenting. It's much harder to ask ourselves these questions, but in the end, so worth it.

]]> Karen Dahl 2009-04-20T15:08:23+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/04/criss-cross-applesauce.html#c6a00d83453044569e201156f3a595a970c J.M. Holland comments on "Criss Cross Applesauce" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/7Gd0WcRwaAI/criss-cross-applesauce.html Patti, Thanks for your comment. I teach a 4-5 year old Head Start class in the inner city. I have 19 children with myself and my assistant. I think your point about students who are away from the action can sometimes learn more than those in the thick of it is part of my question? Who does it serve for us have rules and consequences? Ariel, Thanks for your comment, especially this one I think the challenge is finding the right balance between giving students a voice in creating classroom culture and policy, and having enough structure and firm limits so that students feel safe and cared for. That feeling safe and cared for is a huge issue for me about why I am struggling with issues like consequences in my classroom. I can see that for 3 year old to feel safe they need to feel like they can walk across the room and find something else to do but, i also think many of my at-risk students want to know that I wont let them get away with misbehavior. The caring is in saying no instead of not saying anything. Kim, Great to hear from you. I totally see your point about supporting all learners. I remember Ben and his ways well. He was always able to appreciate and participate in whatever we did while we were cheering on your triathlon moms. I think we can and should use appropriate supports that not only benefit him, but the rest of the class. To me this a struggle between the normative functions of school (teaching participation in our society) and the nurturing functions of school (allowing everyone to be who they are in their own way.) But, there is a caveat to the second part, that is as long as they are learning. If supports for students actually detract from their learning should we continue to use them? Patti, Thanks for your comment. I teach a 4-5 year old Head Start class in the inner city. I have 19 children with myself and my assistant. I think your point about students who are away from the "action" can sometimes learn more than those in the thick of it is part of my question? Who does it serve for us have rules and consequences?

Ariel, Thanks for your comment, especially this one " I think the challenge is finding the right balance between giving students a voice in creating classroom culture and policy, and having enough structure and firm limits so that students feel safe and cared for."

That feeling safe and cared for is a huge issue for me about why I am struggling with issues like consequences in my classroom. I can see that for 3 year old to feel safe they need to feel like they can walk across the room and find something else to do but, i also think many of my at-risk students want to know that I won't let them get away with misbehavior. The caring is in saying no instead of not saying anything.

Kim, Great to hear from you. I totally see your point about supporting all learners. I remember Ben and his ways well. He was always able to appreciate and participate in whatever we did while we were cheering on your triathlon moms. I think we can and should use "appropriate supports that not only benefit him, but the rest of the class."

To me this a struggle between the normative functions of school (teaching participation in our society) and the nurturing functions of school (allowing everyone to be who they are in their own way.) But, there is a caveat to the second part, that is "as long as they are learning." If supports for students actually detract from their learning should we continue to use them?

]]> J.M. Holland 2009-04-16T13:41:34+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/04/criss-cross-applesauce.html#c6a00d83453044569e20115702372d1970b Patti comments on "Criss Cross Applesauce" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/K1WR4bUpdaI/criss-cross-applesauce.html At our school we let the victim of hitting tell the hitter whether or not it was liked, partly as a way to teach the victim to take some power and partly as a way for the hitter to see how it affected the other person. Sometimes, it turns out that its part of some game, and its ok. Then we step back. If its not a game we work with the hitter to see some of the consequences (such as, no one wants to play with him, or he didnt get what he wanted after all because an adult intervened). We give him or her words to use to get whats wanted in a more appropriate manner. If necessary we sit with that person awhile until they think they are ready to play without hitting. The rule, essentially, is no hurting, not no hitting. Hurting doesnt have to be physical, either. And at our school I dont think Ive ever heard anyone but subs use criss cross applesauce for the reasons you state. If someones paying attention let them be in whatever body shape helps them. If they arent paying attention but not being disruptive, is it that important? Some part of that little brain is attending, believe me. We do make it clear that disruption is not permitted, but I always let kids who dont want to join circle play quietly or have a squishy ball or book to hold while the rest of us are a group. Even if they arent with us theyre hearing whats going on. Usually those kids who are across the room during circle are the ones who can tell you exactly what stories and fingerplays we did or what we talked about. At our school we let the victim of hitting tell the hitter whether or not it was liked, partly as a way to teach the victim to take some power and partly as a way for the hitter to see how it affected the other person. Sometimes, it turns out that it's part of some game, and it's ok. Then we step back. If it's not a game we work with the hitter to see some of the consequences (such as, no one wants to play with him, or he didn't get what he wanted after all because an adult intervened). We give him or her words to use to get what's wanted in a more appropriate manner. If necessary we sit with that person awhile until they think they are ready to play without hitting. The rule, essentially, is "no hurting," not "no hitting." Hurting doesn't have to be physical, either.

And at our school I don't think I've ever heard anyone but subs use "criss cross applesauce" for the reasons you state. If someone's paying attention let them be in whatever body shape helps them. If they aren't paying attention but not being disruptive, is it that important? Some part of that little brain is attending, believe me. We do make it clear that disruption is not permitted, but I always let kids who don't want to join circle play quietly or have a squishy ball or book to hold while the rest of us are a group. Even if they aren't with us they're hearing what's going on. Usually those kids who are across the room during circle are the ones who can tell you exactly what stories and fingerplays we did or what we talked about.

]]> Patti 2009-04-13T15:59:28+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/04/criss-cross-applesauce.html#c6a00d83453044569e201157018d19a970b johanna comments on "Full Day vs. Half Day" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/0i8Q8CA_1jk/full-day-vs-hal.html What city to you live in because I want to live there! lol I have a question. My son has autism and has been in school since he was 2 y.o. (there was an awsome infant toddler classroom that they cut due to cuts last year)My daughter is 3 y.o. and we did a 4 year ASQ on her because she was advanced and she past at the upper percentile on all levels. So, we did a 5 year ASQ she passed 3 of the 5 areas, but because she does not turn 4 till Jan. 12th she has to wait till she is 4 years and 8 months to enter pre-k which is only 3 hrs. a day here. Would the school system test her at that time and just enter her when she turns 5 (jan 12th, 2011) into kindergarden? Thanks What city to you live in because I want to live there! lol I have a question. My son has autism and has been in school since he was 2 y.o. (there was an awsome "infant toddler classroom that they cut due to cuts last year)My daughter is 3 y.o. and we did a 4 year ASQ on her because she was advanced and she past at the upper percentile on all levels. So, we did a 5 year ASQ she passed 3 of the 5 areas, but because she does not turn 4 till Jan. 12th she has to wait till she is 4 years and 8 months to enter pre-k which is only 3 hrs. a day here. Would the school system test her at that time and just enter her when she turns 5 (jan 12th, 2011) into kindergarden? Thanks

]]> johanna 2009-04-13T13:53:27+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2008/01/full-day-vs-hal.html#c6a00d83453044569e2011570187efd970b Ariel Sacks comments on "Criss Cross Applesauce" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/b07K-Z4lgnE/criss-cross-applesauce.html Great question: who do our rules serve? I really try to make sure my rules makes sense to students and to the situation. Rules should really be there to ensure the safety of all students and justice in the classroom. Sometimes rules are there to save time, and are more procedures than rules. But maybe we should be taking more time with kids to determine the value of the procedure. I teach middle school, and students can be as good at creating or improving procedures as they are at rebelling against them! I think the challenge is finding the right balance between giving students a voice in creating classroom culture and policy, and having enough structure and firm limits so that students feel safe and cared for. Great question: who do our rules serve? I really try to make sure my rules makes sense to students and to the situation. Rules should really be there to ensure the safety of all students and justice in the classroom. Sometimes rules are there to save time, and are more procedures than rules. But maybe we should be taking more time with kids to determine the value of the procedure. I teach middle school, and students can be as good at creating or improving procedures as they are at rebelling against them! I think the challenge is finding the right balance between giving students a voice in creating classroom culture and policy, and having enough structure and firm limits so that students feel safe and cared for.

]]> Ariel Sacks 2009-04-12T15:01:04+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/04/criss-cross-applesauce.html#c6a00d83453044569e2011570165726970b Kim Kredich comments on "Criss Cross Applesauce" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/74U9m3iiD8c/criss-cross-applesauce.html Geez, John/Jonah - Do you really want me to comment on EVERYTHING I COULD about this topic?? : ) Ben, with autism, fully included in the 4th Grade regular ed class fulltime (no pull-out), with appropriate supports that not only benefit him, but the rest of the class (his aide facilitates small group learning, supports the classroom teacher in SO many ways, creates study guides - using Kidspiration 3 - for Ben that can be used by the whole class, etc.)... the way Ben has become a learning experience to his class, teachers, and school, is your case in point for not only accepting, but celebrating and exploring the needs and learning potential in all students. Criss Cross Applesauce should be just ONE of the menu choices in a classroom of hungry learners. : ) Kim Geez, John/Jonah - Do you really want me to comment on EVERYTHING I COULD about this topic?? : ) Ben, with autism, fully included in the 4th Grade regular ed class fulltime (no pull-out), with appropriate supports that not only benefit him, but the rest of the class (his aide facilitates small group learning, supports the classroom teacher in SO many ways, creates study guides - using Kidspiration 3 - for Ben that can be used by the whole class, etc.)... the way Ben has become a learning experience to his class, teachers, and school, is your case in point for not only accepting, but celebrating and exploring the needs and learning potential in all students. Criss Cross Applesauce should be just ONE of the menu choices in a classroom of hungry learners. : )

Kim

]]> Kim Kredich 2009-04-12T14:38:10+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/04/criss-cross-applesauce.html#c6a00d83453044569e2011570164bd9970b Karissa comments on "Parent Teacher Conferences" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/Y4Wqa6M2T68/parent-teacher-conferences.html Thanks for the ideas Kelly! I think I will suggest some of those things for next year. We do host family celebrations throughout the year and people bring a dish to share...they are ALWAYS well attended! MAybe we could try doing conferences during one of those times. Thanks for reading! Thanks for the ideas Kelly! I think I will suggest some of those things for next year. We do host family celebrations throughout the year and people bring a dish to share...they are ALWAYS well attended! MAybe we could try doing conferences during one of those times.
Thanks for reading!

]]> Karissa 2009-04-01T22:58:28+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/03/parent-teacher-conferences.html#c6a00d83453044569e201156fba0b5f970b J.M. Holland comments on "A Time for Time Out?" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/aDZvRmtRl2o/a-time-for-time-out.html I am really happy to hear a variety of opinions. Maybe it would help if I asked more questions so that we can hash out some of this thinking. I think Siobhan made something click for me. Teaching and expecting ARE two different things. So when you have taught a skill, and the child has shown mastery of that skill, but then chooses to not use that skill, whether it is cognitive or behavioral, where does the responsibility lie? I am really happy to hear a variety of opinions. Maybe it would help if I asked more questions so that we can hash out some of this thinking.
I think Siobhan made something click for me. Teaching and expecting ARE two different things. So when you have taught a skill, and the child has shown mastery of that skill, but then chooses to not use that skill, whether it is cognitive or behavioral, where does the responsibility lie?

]]> J.M. Holland 2009-04-01T20:05:39+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/03/a-time-for-time-out.html#c6a00d83453044569e201156ebeb3c8970c siobhan curious comments on "A Time for Time Out?" http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/inside_pre-k_comments/~3/pYiGb5ix7mU/a-time-for-time-out.html I dont teach small children, but, as a college teacher, I definitely see the outcome of children not having consistent, firm consequences for their actions. From my point of view, it makes little difference what the consequences are as long as they are a) consistent, b) negative enough to make the child rethink his/her previous behavior and c) not physically or emotionally harmful to the child. I guess c) is what youre asking about - is a time out emotionally harmful - and I would have to say no. And as for whether you should expect a four-year-old to be capable of following your rules, I would say, you shouldnt EXPECT him to follow them; its part of your job to TEACH him to follow them through appropriate reinforcement. I don't teach small children, but, as a college teacher, I definitely see the outcome of children not having consistent, firm consequences for their actions. From my point of view, it makes little difference what the consequences are as long as they are a) consistent, b) negative enough to make the child rethink his/her previous behavior and c) not physically or emotionally harmful to the child. I guess c) is what you're asking about - is a time out emotionally harmful - and I would have to say no. And as for whether you should expect a four-year-old to be capable of following your rules, I would say, you shouldn't EXPECT him to follow them; it's part of your job to TEACH him to follow them through appropriate reinforcement.

]]> siobhan curious 2009-04-01T12:13:41+00:00 http://blogs.preknow.org/insideprek/2009/03/a-time-for-time-out.html#c6a00d83453044569e201156eb86eba970c