While growing up in Alberta, Canada, Elizabeth Bectell swore she would never live on a farm. But after graduating from college and serving a full-time mission, Liz found herself back in familiar territory. Now she’s a cattle rancher’s wife near Cardston, finding happiness in her choices, her family, her community, and her trust in a loving Heavenly Father.

I grew up in different towns in Alberta, Canada. Now I live with my husband and children on a cattle ranch twelve miles out of Cardston. We have 200 head of cattle. We’re three miles from the Montana border, right by the mountains.

Cardston was settled by LDS pioneers in the 1800s, and they built a temple here. It’s not a very big town, about 3,500 people. There’s a high population of LDS people. I have pioneer heritage and was raised in the Church.

Did you expect to end up so close to where you’d started?

No! I swore that I would never marry a rancher or a farmer. I swore that I would not end up here. I never wanted to be stuck on a farm. When we were engaged, Jeff said, “Well, this is what our life is going to be if you want to marry me. So you have to decide if this is what you want to do.”

It was a struggle for me to get to the point that I was okay with it. It wasn’t an easy decision. My dad was a farmer for a while when I was growing up and I have family members who are farmers. It looked like a lot of hard work and not always a lot of pay. You get paid once a year and that’s it. I knew we would probably never move, that we would stay right here. I wanted to travel and see the world. In fact, even though I’d grown up in Alberta, I’d never stayed in the same place more than six years while I was growing up. But I decided I just had to choose to be happy. Wherever you are, you just have to choose to be happy.

An aerial view of the ranch

It was a challenge at first. But it’s a beautiful place that we live in. We have a beautiful view of the mountains. I told him I’d marry him for his view! It’s a beautiful place to raise your children. We have wonderful, wide-open spaces. We have a hill that we go hiking on. It’s a beautiful place to be.

And your children learn how to work in this kind of life. Our kids are getting old enough now that they can work on the ranch and help with cows. We work together as a family, which is a great thing.

Tell me about your family.

I’ve got five children. Damon is thirteen. Lindy is eleven. Rachel is ten. Coulson is seven; he’s excited because he’s getting baptized in June. Tyler is four; he stays with me at home.

A lot of our time is spent with family. Our kids are close in age, so they have basically always played with each other. We enjoy having game nights together. They just discovered Risk. Friends are starting to be a little more important to them as they’re starting to be in middle school.

What is your everyday work like on the farm?

When we were dating, I knew it was true love because I used to come out to the ranch and ride the tractor so I could be with Jeff. I haven’t ridden it much since. When you have five little kids it’s a full-time job for sure! Now that the kids are getting older, they’re getting busy. I have to run them to all their activities in town, which is important.

The last few years my kids have been big enough to babysit, so I’ve helped on the tractor once in a while. I thought I’d never do that. But sometimes being out on the tractor is easier than being back at home!

Right now we’re heading into calving season. That’s the really busy season for my husband especially. He has to check the cows every couple of hours to see if any of the cows need help having their babies. Lots of ranches have hired hands, but we don’t, so he does the checks all night long. It’s fun to see all the new baby calves, but it’s a challenging time because he’s sleep-deprived. I haven’t been much help because I’ve been busy having babies all these years.

During calving season?

Actually, yes. I have a whole bunch of spring babies. I only had one in December and that was heavenly because my husband could actually help me a little bit more than with the others.

Do you have extended family nearby?

My parents and grandparents live in Glenwood, about 35 minutes away from us. It is nice to have them close. When my husband was graduating college—he has a degree in zoology—his grandfather died so his family asked him if he would like to run the ranch here. So he came to run the ranch and lived with his grandmother. When we got married, she gave us her home and moved to town, to Cardston. She’s been a big part of our lives for a long time. When I was a young mom she babysat my kids for me while I did errands. Her home is like our home away from home in town. She was a librarian for a lot of years, and she read books to kids, so everywhere you go in Cardston, when you say Mrs. Bectell, everyone says, “Oh! I remember when she read to us at school! She was wonderful!”

My husband’s family has deep roots here. His great-grandparents ran this ranch, but they died in the flu epidemic of 1919. Their son, my husband’s grandfather, was three years old when he was orphaned. He was taken in by relatives, but he later came back and took over the ranch. So the ranch was always very dear to Jeff’s grandfather because it was his tie with his parents he barely knew.

My husband spent summers here as a child, so he learned to love the ranch. It was his home base and he loved it.

Wow! Your husband’s connections to the place are very deep. How have you made yourself a part of that community?

We have a Parent Link Center in our community with free programs to help with parenting. For example, they have a program called “Stay and Play,” where you can bring your child and meet other parents and play with your children and get parenting tips. I have a degree in Speech Language Pathology from BYU, and I’ve done some speech and language activities for the Parent Link Center.

Right now I’m doing story time at the library. I do the “Tales for Tots” program twice a year for six weeks. It’s really fun to get to read stories and do crafts and snacks with the kids. It’s not exactly in my field but it gives me an opportunity to be involved in the community.

Helping out at the school has helped me be involved. And of course our ward family has been important. A friend and I decided that we wanted to use our minds more and discuss literature, so we started a Relief Society book club almost six years ago. It’s now opened up to not just our ward. That’s been a great thing. We have women in their eighties and women in their twenties and everything between. That’s been a great way to connect as well.

Our “Run Like a Mother” group is another way I’ve connected with the community. A bunch of women meet at the swimming pool parking lot Saturday mornings and go for a run. We just did a moonlight 10K race together.

Can you run on the ranch during the week?

We have gravel roads, but lately we’ve had grizzlies on our land, so it’s a little more nerve-racking.

Grizzly bears?!

Yes. I used to take the kids for walks all the time, but now it’s a little bit more worrisome. We actually were out playing and walking around in the willow trees in our field one day in spring, and the kids were going to run up the hill when we saw a bear under a tree looking at us. We called, “Come back to the truck!” but the bear just kind of ambled off. It was scary, but it helped me see the bear wasn’t going to attack me right off. I still get a little bit worried about running on the ranch, but I do it anyway.

My husband actually has a second job with the Carnivore Working Group to deal with the bear issues. So the bears have given us more income, but you can’t be as carefree sending the kids out to play.

Besides our community in Cardston, we have the community here where we live. It’s called Carway, after the Carway border crossing. The people on the ranches in Carway get together every year and brand cattle. That has been a great thing for our rural community. Every spring we take turns going to each other’s ranches and working the cows together. First they have a roundup. They go out on horses or quads and round all the cows up into a corral. Then they get on horses and rope the calves and brand them and give them their vaccination shots, and then they let them go. Different people do different jobs. We have ropers. My husband wrestles the calves and holds them down.

They work the cattle in the morning and then we all gather in the farmhouse and have a big branding dinner together before they go out and finish with the cattle. Some women help with the cattle and other ranch wives will come in and help put on the big meal for everyone. We all help each other. That has been a great way for our community to be together.

Where do the kids go?

They help out! My older son is starting to learn to wrestle the calves, so that’s pretty cool. When they’re younger they’ll watch the gate to make sure the cows don’t get out when they’re not supposed to. And the kids like to sit in the back of the truck and drink pop all afternoon.

That’s a fun time of year because all the neighboring ranches just work together. Sometimes you’re so busy that you don’t get together much until branding time but then you can renew your friendships. It’s great.

Tell me about the family you grew up with.

I grew up in what you might call a blended family. When I was five and my older brother was nine, my parents adopted two children, a sister two months younger than me and a brother one year younger than me. When I was seven they adopted another little sister.

There were challenges to it. For example, I had been the baby of the family and got kicked out of that role. And trying to make a new family was challenging, just like it is for any blended family. It was challenging to blend our backgrounds to my siblings’ backgrounds. They’d had a difficult time in their previous childhood, so some of the issues and challenges that they had faced affected our whole family. And of course they had to fit in with strangers, which had to have been hard for them.

But it was fun, too. My new sister, who was just two months younger than me, gave me a built-in playmate.

I came to realize the importance of social work because of our adoptions, so when I first went down to [Ricks] college, I was planning to become a social worker. But slowly I realized that, much as I admired what social workers do, I didn’t have to shape my entire life around what had been important to my family as I grew up. I could find peace for myself in my own thing. I could make choices.

I still wanted to help people even though I didn’t want to be a social worker, so I studied communication disorders at Ricks and got a degree from BYU in speech language pathology.

You served a mission after college. How did you decide to do that?

I was going to graduate and I was trying to decide whether to get a master’s degree or what to do. It was a real confusing time for me. Back then I was always worried about what was coming next. I was all stressed. I remember thinking about going on a mission and feeling really peaceful about it, so I decided that’s what I was going to do.

You served in the Salt Lake City Temple Square Mission. What were some of the important experiences you had on your mission?

The Missionary Training Center was wonderful. I thought every member of the Church should go to the MTC just to immerse themselves in the scriptures and learn about the gospel. I loved that.

After the MTC, though, I had to face my fears and weaknesses and just keep going forward.

What were your fears?

I had to be out in front of a group, speaking and putting myself out there. That was scary. Sometimes people just wanted to be tourists and didn’t want to hear about the gospel, and I didn’t want to offend those people. I had to get over that fear of offending them to share the gospel. I got better at it as I went along.

When I was a missionary, the sisters assigned to Temple Square would be assigned to a different mission in the United States for four months near the end of their mission. That gave us more opportunity to teach people and to maybe see people join the Church. I was assigned to California. Seeing people baptized was amazing, seeing the joy on their faces, and feeling their joy in coming into the gospel.

On Temple Square, I was amazed at the stories of the sisters from all over the world and how they had sacrificed to join the Church. Lots of them were converts. That was a great experience, to meet sisters from all over the world and to work with them and to learn to accept and appreciate other cultures.

You mentioned that when you were younger you always worried about what was coming next but that now you don’t. How did you change that about yourself?

I think it’s a matter of being grateful and trusting that Heavenly Father knows who I am and what I need. His ways are always perfect. He’s sent people to my life or given me opportunities to grow or learn when I’ve needed them. For example, when I’ve felt I need to do something with my mind, He’s sent me job opportunities, like the Parent Link Center and the library story time.

Trusting Him means being willing to be in the moment. When I was a kid I thought, “I’ll be happy when I’m sixteen and can date.” When I was a young mom I thought, “It’s so difficult!” But as my kids get older, I’m learning to just love the stage that I’m in.

I hope I can teach my kids that you don’t always need to be looking forward. It’s good to have a vision of what you want, but there’s value in just being happy with where you are. It’s a much happier place to be than always worrying and stressing. I’m almost forty, so maybe that’s part of it: I don’t care as much what other people think of me. I’m more grounded with being who I am and being okay with who I am.

Are there gospel practices that particularly nourish you?

I’ve kept a journal for a long time, but a few years ago I started using a scripture journal. In the past, my journals had always been, “Oh, sorry I didn’t write,” or “Oh, I forgot to write.” But I decided I’m just going to be okay with whatever I choose to write at whatever time. My scripture journal is in a coil notebook because it’s easy to write in and nothing fancy. The summer I started, I would get up before everyone else, and it was so beautiful and so quiet. I would study my scriptures and write my thoughts in my journal. It helped clear my thoughts and helped me to see what answers to prayer I got.

What joys have come to you from having the gospel in your life?

I always wanted a family where we got along, where we were loyal to each other, where we had a good marriage. The gospel, I think, has helped me do that as my husband and I try our best to have a good marriage. I think that children can feel that peace that comes from making family a priority, and from feeling connected to Heavenly Father. Living gospel principles makes me happy.

I know that Heavenly Father knows me and knows what I need at the time that I need it. I’m discovering more and more that the Savior’s Atonement was not just for the redemption of our sins but is to heal us of our sadness and our sickness. I’m learning to lay my burdens at his feet. If I’m feeling jealous, I can say, “I’m going to lay this at your feet because I don’t want to do this anymore,” and that brings peace into my life. That’s a new understanding of the power of the Atonement for me. It makes a huge difference that I don’t have to hang on to things, that I can give them to Him and He will take them from me.

At A Glance

Elizabeth Bectell

Location: Location: Cardston, Alberta, Canada

Age: 39

Marital status: Married

Children: Children (number and ages): Five (ages 13,12, 10, 8, 4)

Occupation: Occupation: Homemaker, Children’s Library Program Storyteller

Schools Attended: Schools Attended: Ricks College, Brigham Young University

Languages Spoken at Home: English

Favorite Hymn: “I Need Thee Every Hour”

Interview by Annette Pimentel. Photos by Stephanie Smith Photography or used with permission.

Tina knew from a young age that music was her life’s calling and she is a professional saxophonist in New York. It took longer for Tina to realize that she is gay, but a period of inactivity from the Church didn’t stop her from paying her tithing every month. It was appreciation and practice of Buddhism that led Tina back to the Church in her remarkable journey back into activity.

When I was in third grade I had a babysitter, who was in the high school jazz band. Her band played at my elementary school.  I saw her stand up and play tenor saxophone and she was just killing it. She stood up and took a solo. I was like, that’s amazing! Then in fifth grade, I had a choice in public school to be in choir or in band.  I wanted to be in band. I wanted to play tenor saxophone. I really feel like saxophone picked me. It was that thing I just knew I had to do. There was just no question.

I grew up in a very musical home although no one was trained. I got some really good negative pushback from my father which made me just want to prove to him even more that I would practice every day. So, I did. I practiced every day. Nobody told me to practice, but it was like a refuge for me. You know, all families are crazy and disruptive, no one is immune to that, and I just found it to be a sanctuary.

I didn’t take private lessons, just what I got in school. But I would fall asleep dreaming of orchestrations in my head. I could hear music in my head. And I dreamt of me being in a Jazz combo, just five people. I didn’t know what that was. I just knew that I was on stage performing with a bass player, drummer, piano and a trumpet player. I decided then that that’s how I was going to spend the rest of my life.

What was it like to get your first saxophone?

Oh, it was magic! Man, I got this instrument, I didn’t know how it worked but I put the reed on and I just started playing the one with the record – like immediately. I didn’t know how to finger anything.

It was my big passion. It’s all I wanted to do in high school.  I actually hated high school because I couldn’t do enough music. I was in music zero hour, 3^rd period, 6^th period and then after school.  So, it was four times a day and it wasn’t enough. I didn’t want to learn history, I didn’t want learn biology. I just wanted to know more about music.

When I was a sophomore in High School I went to a competition for band and small ensembles held at the University of Idaho (Moscow, Idaho).  The saxophone professor at the University of Idaho approached me and asked if I was taking lessons and I said, “No, my parents can’t afford it.” And he said, “Well, look, if you drive over here (which was 200 miles away) I’ll give you saxophone lessons for free.”  I said, “Okay, you’ve got a deal.”  So, I took his telephone number, I went back home. I was 16 at the time. I said, “Dad, I need a car. This saxophone professor wants to give me lessons for free.” He said, “Well, there are 2 engines in the garage. See what you can do with them.” My dad was a mechanic. So, I had to rebuild my first car engine. With my dad’s help, we rebuilt the car engine so I could drive 200 miles one way to be at saxophone lesson at 8:30 on Saturday mornings. I did this every other Saturday for my junior and senior years of high school. Get up at 3:30AM to be in my car by 4:00AM and drive for 4 hours. Have my saxophone lesson at 8:30AM until 10:00AM. I’d make it home by 2:30PM or 3:00PM with just enough time to be at work at 4:00PM.

University of Idaho gave me a scholarship and I went to college there in saxophone performance. Then I went to the University of Washington and got my graduate degree in saxophone performance as well. There’s never been a plan B because if you have a plan B that’s what you’re going to end up doing. So, I’ve always just decided that music is number one. And I’ve always had odd jobs here and there but I’ve always had students and I’ve always been able to perform.  I’ve been lucky enough to perform with lots of big bands and small bands alike, especially in Seattle.

Where were you raised?

In southern Washington, in the Columbia Gorge. When I was in high school, my family moved to Wenatchee, Washington. I lived in Seattle for my graduate work.  I was there for ten years before I moved to New York City. Music’s been the thing, man. It’s been the driving force.  It’s been the safe haven in my life.  The constant.  The router.

Were you raised in the Church?

My mother was a convert to the church at age 18. My father wasn’t a member but we went to church every Sunday. And she taught us to pray, follow the commandments and she taught us to follow the Lord. When I was 9, my father finally converted.  When I was 11, we went to the temple which was really neat and we were all sealed together.  So, I grew up being very active in church and I loved it. I love the gospel. I knew it was true.  I’m a true believing Mormon. I’ve always had a strong testimony of my Savior and have just loved having a relationship with the Lord.

Let’s switch gears for a minute and talk to you about being queer.

Well, when I was 11 or so my Uncle Michael, my dad’s brother, came to my parents and said, “I have found the person of my dreams. We are going to have a commitment ceremony. His name is Tom. I love him very much.” And my parents said, “No, we can’t come to your commitment ceremony because we can’t support you in that. We love you no matter what you do but we can’t support your life style.” Later, my mom expressed that homosexuality was just bad and evil and against God, a very grievous sin – only second that to killing someone, I remember her saying.  Then, when I was 12, I was taught in Mia Maids to pray, to stay on your knees to feel the Spirit and that’s how you receive answers to prayers. So, that night I went home and prayed. I didn’t have anything special I was praying for. I just stayed on my knees to feel the Spirit and the awareness welled up within side of me that I was homosexual. I was so afraid and so shocked, dismayed. It was the worst thing that could happen and I was just like, no! no! no! no! no! no!  I shoved it into the deeps recesses of my body and there it stayed hidden until I was in college. A few people tried to bring it up with me in college, but I just couldn’t handle it.

So, other people were seeing this?

Oh, yeah. A lot of my classmates saw it. I just kept a lid on it as tight as I could.  I had no interest in dating boys. I was just a baby bull-dyke. I really was. I wore these giant combat boots. I had a leather jacket. I had camouflage pants and always wore men’s T-shirts. No, I was just full on a small dyke. I just couldn’t see it. I couldn’t see it at all. I just couldn’t or wouldn’t see it.

I went on one double date when I was 16. I was like, “Oh, I’m 16. I can go on a date now.” So, I went on a double date. It was just lame. I even ended up making out with the other girl’s date who put the moves on me and I was like, “Oh, sure, this is just something that people do.”  The kiss…it was gross, disgusting, yuck. I didn’t like it at all. I wasn’t intrigued. I didn’t have any romantic interest in any boy ever. To this day I haven’t had romantic interest with any boy.  I’m almost 40. I’m a lesbian. Yeah, it’s true.

It was in college that I really began to realize that I was falling in love with women. And the first woman that I fell in love with really, she was Catholic and she wouldn’t have it. I went and saw my bishop at home and said, “I think I’m gay.” And he said, “No, it’s not possible. In order for you to be gay one of your parents has to by gay. Obviously neither of your parents is gay because they had you and God would never do that to anyone. He wouldn’t create someone homosexual. No, not possible.”  So, I was even more confused. I went back to college and fell in love with another girl. Then began the crazy wicked battle back and forth: gay or straight, active in the church or not active in the church. So, I did the pray the gay away thing. I worked so hard. I went to the temple. I thought that would make me straight. I thought I could just have enough faith that the Lord would just take it away and that I could will myself into being what everyone else told me I needed to be. I just put myself through the ringer to the point I made myself sick. I had done everything I could think of to do. I convinced myself that I was going to marry a guy. I fasted. I prayed. I went to the temple. I received my endowment. Did everything I could think to do, and at a certain point I just realized that I was unhappy and broken from the struggle to make myself straight. As hard as I tried my homosexuality just wasn’t going to go away.

I realized that at a New Year’s Eve dance at a Mormon church. It was just so pathetic. I was looking out at the dance floor at the guy that I had convinced myself that I was going to marry.  And he was dancing with someone else and I realized he had zero interested in me. And I thought to myself, “What am I doing here?” So, I prayed in that very moment and said, “Take this away from me.” The next day I went to my friends’ house where all of my lesbian friends from college were gathered. I knew they would all be hung over so I took over some eggs and potatoes to make everyone breakfast. That was the day I met the woman I would marry and spend the next seven years of my life.  We held a beautiful commitment ceremony two years after we started dating.

It was an incredible seven years with her, even though I missed the church, the community, the spiritual nourishment. But eventually, I could no longer live in Seattle and be happy.  The jazz scene of New York City was calling my soul.  So we moved to NYC and she lasted 4 months till she was completely depressed and distressed. We both realized that she had no place in New York City and needed to return to Seattle.  I could no longer live in Seattle.  We had a long distance relationship for one year which completely unraveled in that time.  We tried to keep it together, but we needed such different things.  She needed to have children in Seattle and I needed to make music in New York, so we set each other free.  This was about five and a half years ago.

That relationship must have been a great loss. How did you handle that?

At the time, I was living with a Buddhist here in New York and he had this incredible library of Buddhist books. He practiced zazen or meditation every day; he taught me how to practice zazen too. We talked a lot about Zen and Buddhist precepts. I began to read these books and the Zen Buddhist approached really helped me embrace the suffering. My mom was also really sick with cancer at that time too. So, I started to redevelop my spiritual side through Zen Buddhism and through music. So, I just sunk deeper into music and my spirituality which was really powerful and wonderful. Buddhism is actually what brought me back to the church.

How so?

I was reading a book by Thích Nhất Hạnh, who is one of my favorites Zen Buddhist authors, called Living Buddha, Living Christ. In the book, he talks about the jewels of our traditions and how important it is to accept our own tradition. He says, “When we respect our blood ancestors and spiritual ancestors, we feel rooted. If we can find ways to cherish and develop our spiritual heritage we will avoid the kind of alienation that is destroying society and we will become whole again. We must encourage others, especially young people, to go back to their traditions and rediscover the jewels that are there. Learning to touch deeply the jewels of our own tradition will allow us to understand and appreciate the values of other traditions and this will benefit everyone.” And when I read this I was so struck knowing that I had to go back to my tradition, to my Mormon tradition. I was like, oh, crap! Really?  This information sat inside of me for about six months before I had the courage to go back to church, to be whole again, but I knew I had to do it.

So, what were some of the first steps you took?

I was always a tithing payer because as a musician you always need support. I’ve always had a firm foundation, a total testimony of tithing. I’ve paid my tithing since I declared myself a professional musician in 2003.

You paid your tithing the entire time you weren’t going to church? To whatever ward you technically would have been in?

Yeah, and I always had my files transferred to whatever ward I was supposed to be in. I would write the bishop a letter and say, “Hey look, I’m in your ward. You have my records. Do not contact me. Do not send the Relief Society after me. Do not send the missionaries after me but here’s my tithing.” And I’d tell the bishop I was gay and in a relationship.

So, you actually meet with the Bishop and say, “Look I’m queer, I’m in your ward.  You’re going to get tithing but that’s all you are going to get from me”?

Yeah, exactly. When I first got to New York, I had a bishop who tried to tell me I’d be happier if I was a wife and mother and I said, “You are not listening to my words. I am queer. I’m homo. I’m as homo as they get.” But then a couple of years later a new bishop was called. I just knew that cause the name on the tithing envelopes changed. I stopped by the church on Sundays and slipped my tithing envelopes under the bishop’s door.

You go to the church house, fill out the slip and put it under the bishop’s door…

I didn’t fill out the slips there. I would go in, grab some envelopes and some slips, slide my tithing under the door and get out of there as quickly as possible. Just like, in and out, boom. But, this particular Sunday I slipped it under the door and the bishop, the new bishop, pops his head out and is like, “You! Who are you? What are you doing? Where do you come from?” He was just so earnest, so curious. He wanted to talk: “I’m just really curious. Nobody pays their tithing who doesn’t come to church.” He was so befuddled and he was just so earnest. So, I make an appointment to meet with him and it also happens to be tithing settlement time. It turns out that this bishop is a saxophone player himself! So, we talked about music. We talked about me growing up in the church and being homosexual. And he said, “Well, look the door is open to you any time. Feel free to come to church and you can bring your girlfriend too.” Yeah, I was so shocked. I was like, What??? You just said I could bring my girlfriend to church? Did they change the Bishop’s Handbook? What’s going on? What happened?  It’s been 9 years since I’ve attended church and this guy is inviting me to bring my girlfriend to church.

I knew at that point it was time to go back to church. I was going to honor my tradition. I went back to church. The very first Sunday back was fast and testimony, the very first Sunday of the new year (2011). I got up and bore my testimony to my congregation. I said I hadn’t attended the church for nine years but I’ve always known it was true. I just bore testimony that I know that Jesus is the Christ and that this is the restored gospel. I didn’t announce that I was homosexual. I think it was pretty obvious though. You know, I showed up with a tie and a button down shirt and nice slacks on. I bore my testimony and everyone was so kind and loving and I was like, okay this is cool. And I just began to work with my Bishop. I continued to practice zazen and I continued to read Buddhist books. I continued to practice mediation and mindful living but I slowly incorporated reading the scriptures, starting with the New Testament because I felt like I needed to get to know my Savior more. I began to pray more to Heavenly Father as opposed to just mediating or chanting. It only took about five or six months before the Lord showed me that I could totally incorporate my zazen and scripture reading. I still chant. I think it’s something really important that our culture doesn’t teach but it is a very strong tool and I chant what people would praise in church like: “Praise God,” “Thank you, Jesus,” “Thank you, Father in Heaven.” Just chant like that because it is very powerful. So, I still keep that in my personal practice.

What benefits does chanting give you?

It just opens up my chakras. It opens up all of my channels to feel the Spirit. It gives me groundedness and rootedness in a way that I’m able to feel the Spirit…in Buddhism they talk about “the mirror”. There is a mirror in our minds that reflects life and sometimes the mirror gets really dirty and we need to clean the mirror to see clearly. To be spirit-led, you have to constantly clean that mirror.

This is a significant shift, from Buddhism to Christianity. What has that been like for you?

Well my return to the Church came at the same time I was ending a relationship. My new freedom allowed me so much space to feel the Spirit, which is the awesome filler of everything, right? It just gave me more mental space, more spiritual space to be calm. It felt so good and the Lord just filled me with his spirit all the time. I was so happy. There were definitely hard, hard days. But I didn’t try and solve it. I didn’t try and fix it. I said – great, I’m just going to love whatever is going through me right now because that’s what the Lord would do and that’s what I’ve been practicing the past several years living my life. Buddhism isn’t a religion, it’s a philosophy. It’s a practice of life. I just put all of my Buddhist practice to work by going back to church.

So, during this time that you are getting to know yourself what did you learn? What did you discover? Who’s Tina?

I discovered that I really love more than anything to wake up alone and pray first thing. I don’t want to talk to anybody. I learned that I need a lot of alone time. I learned that I’ll put myself way on the back burner for the happiness of someone else and that can be really extreme for me. I don’t take care of myself. It just shows how horrible I am in relationships.  I really don’t need to be in a relationship to be happy is what I discovered and that actually I prefer to be single. That’s what I learned.

It’s a happy coincidence that my preferring to be single lines up really with what the Church expects of me as homosexual, and perhaps a more faithful way of saying that is that God blesses me to feel this way. That’s what I think. The Great Creator can make us into whatever he wants of us. If we move ourselves in slightest right direction he will take it and he’ll magnify it for our good. I feel like I’ve been blessed to be at such peace about this. I have this incredible relationship with the Lord and with the Spirit. I’m just so peaceful. Peaceful! Joyful! I will take the gifts of the Spirit over the gifts of the flesh any day of the week.  I’m all about it.

What do you think got you to that point?

The Lord, I really do, without question. And also my desire to feel the Spirit got me to this point. My desire to know the truth.  My desire to align myself with the Lord’s will. My desire to not be afraid and say – hey, I’m a homosexual. I’m the big bad word. I was created this way.  It’s not an affliction. I was created this way. And I was given the ability not to be afraid of that any more.

I reached out to my Stake President and told him I’m a homosexual and if he needs any help or advice on how to help other homosexuals I’m a resource. I’ve spoken to the Relief Society in my ward to share my mother’s faithful experience of how she came to accept me as a homosexual, my faith journey as a homosexual in the gospel, and how much that hurt and how much I had to get over to come back to church. If someone has a question, let’s talk about it and to use the word homosexual. I’ve also joined Affirmation which is the gay and lesbian bisexual transgender organization that’s not affiliated through the Church, but it is member organized and run.  So, now I’m deeply involved the outreach and membership of that work.

What have been the challenges for you in this work?

I think the biggest challenge is when people question why I’m celibate and they act as if it’s a just phase. Or that I’m hiding behind the Church in a way that makes me less authentic. Or when my gay friends are like, “What are you doing hanging with the Mormons?” So, that’s hard. That’s actually lessening up now. I think the hardest part is when my gay friends question my happiness. When they can’t believe that I’m happy and joyful. Even though they meet me and see that I’m a happy person, they can’t believe that God would ever support a person being happy in being celibate. Everyone just assumes that you can’t be happy unless you are in a relationship and that maybe that is true for some people, I just feel better not being in a relationship.

What have been the blessings as you returned to the Church?

My mind is more sharp and more clear about what I want to do. It is evident to me that in the past two years God has been directing and guiding my footsteps. I’m blessed with a peace. When I read the scriptures, I’m given revelation on what the Lord wants me to do. I am given the courage and the confidence and the strength to live my life. The Lord has also changed me physically and mentally to be able to do this. I can go to the temple now. I can go to the temple and do the work for my ancestors, which is just such an amazing blessing and get help from the other side. I have full access to all the mysteries of the kingdom of God. If that isn’t a blessing, there isn’t one. I have the reassurance given through the Holy Ghost. I live an abundant life. The blessing of knowing that at any moment I have access to divine energy is just awesome.  I know who I am now. I know who I am. I’ll tell you what – one of the biggest blessings is saying, “I’m a homosexual and I’m a daughter of God. The Lord loves me and there’s a work to be done, brother and sisters. There’s a mighty, mighty work to be done and it’s called building up Zion.” To be able to build up Zion like this and strengthen other people who have had such pain caused from being homosexual is joy and fulfillment in my life. Sometimes it’s very stressful and I get bombarded with emails or things I need to do but it’s such a blessing to know what to do with my life. To have meaning in my life. To know where to put my time and my energy and to be directed in every step is the best blessing that anybody could ever want.

Is there anything else that you would want the women reading your story to know?

If we try to live up to some ridiculous idea of perfection we totally miss grace, we completely miss grace. Grace is something we need to embrace; the Lord knows us, and He doesn’t want us to be like everyone else. He didn’t make us to be like everyone else. We’re all individuals and he needs us to do his work to build up Zion to strengthen and edify each other. We are all part of the same body but if the body is walking around with the knee thinking it’s supposed to be the nose or the head thinking it’s supposed to be the shoulder… You can’t do your job if you think you are supposed to be something else. Just find out who you are in the Lord and make your space in the Church.

I do want to close with saying that I know that the church is true and I know that Jesus Christ is the son of God. And that the restoration of the gospel is the truth and if we seek the truth it will be made known. If we ask, we’ll have the answers. All the answers are available. Even though they aren’t always clear we will get the answer. I say these things in Jesus’ name. Amen.

At A Glance

Tina Richerson

Location: Brooklyn, NY

Age: 38

Marital status: Celibate

Occupation: Musician

Conversion: 1/4/2011 (Tina makes a distinction between her baptismal date and her conversation date. Though baptized as a child & raised in the church, it wasn’t until the date provided that she was converted).

Schools Attended: University of Idaho & University of Washington

Languages Spoken at Home: English

Favorite Hymn: “Because I Have Been Given Much”

On The Web: http://therichersonic.com/

Interview by Elizabeth Ostler. Portraits by Lael Taylor and Tom Kronsteiner.

Marie-Laure Oscarson suggests that “having it all” means something different for everyone. For her—a mother, a university professor, and a convert to the LDS Church—it comes down personal revelation about specific life choices regarding her family, her profession, and her religion. Marie-Laure’s path has included the Catholic faith, French existentialist philosophy, a curiosity about the Amish lifestyle, and the Mormon missionaries who helped rekindle her faith in God’s love.

You were raised in France in the Catholic faith and are now an LDS woman living in Utah. How did that transition come about?

During my last year of high school in France I had a philosophy teacher who was an atheist. God did not exist for her. She really challenged my beliefs. Although I was raised Catholic, I started reading existentialist authors and found a lot of meaning in their words. It made sense to me. I thought, “Okay, there is no God. I need to fight for my own happiness. I cannot count on some supernatural power to make me happy; I need to do it on my own.” I was reading all of these books and was not hanging out with my friends anymore. It got so bad that my dad called my friends on the phone and ask, “Can you get Marie-Laure out of her room? She’s with her books again.” So my friends would come over and ask, “What’s going on?” And I would say, “We are all dying! Do you realize that we’re dying?!” I had this really clear sense that life was coming to an end, and that I had to figure it all out. It was an intense and very lonely time in my life. My questions burned inside of me, and I had to find answers. I felt really sad as I would think, “Wow, I’m by myself. I am on my own.”  I really missed communion with God and the Spirit, although I couldn’t quite articulate it at the time.

After I finished my high school degree, I went to a college in France for one year and then decided I wanted to improve my English, so I chose to go abroad to America to live as a nanny. I ended up in Philadelphia, and nannied for a family with two little kids. While living in Philadelphia, I started attending the Catholic Church again to see if I could find what I was searching for. This congregation spoke in tongues and was very different from my low-key experience with the Catholic Church in France. One day, while I was at home, the missionaries knocked on the door. They scared me a little bit because I thought they were going to push their religion on me and behave as intensely as the Catholics down the street. I thought, “Oh no, I don’t need more of this.” I told the missionaries that I was not interested and sent them away.

During this time, I became interested in the Amish who lived in the area, and I thought their lifestyle and devotion were fascinating. The other nannies and I attended a Fourth of July celebration, and as we were watching the fireworks, I noticed a large group of young people wearing suits and dresses. These were the Mormon missionaries, but I thought they were a group of Amish youth. I really wanted to know about the glue that bound them together. I didn’t spend any time with the members of my Catholic congregation outside of church so this group of religious young people was interesting to me. I went over and started talking to them. One of the burning questions I asked was, “What, for you, is the purpose of life?” After talking for a bit, I realized that these were not the Amish people but the Mormon missionaries! The other nannies discouraged me, saying, “Don’t talk to the missionaries. All they talk about is the Bible.” I said, “I have questions. These are people who know about their faith.”

So, the elders started teaching me in the library, and I felt the Spirit very strongly when I was with them. They would teach me the gospel, and I would feel so good. After I would return home, that feeling was gone. I shared my concerns with the missionaries. They gave me the Book of Mormon and said, “You’ve got to read.” My doubts lessened when I read the Book of Mormon. As I read, the book became my best companion. I read, and I cried. For the first time in my life I felt the deeper connection that I had been searching for. It got to the point where I could not depart from the Book of Mormon, and I would sleep with it right next to my pillow. It was a safety blanket for me–it was the law, the safety, the peace, the truth, and the light that I had been looking for. I could feel power in its pages. It was wonderful. My doubts also lessened when the missionaries taught me how to offer personal prayers. My Catholic prayers were very meaningful and sincere but they were all recitation. When I prayed personal prayers, the Spirit felt obvious. Right before I decided to get baptized, I knelt down, and I prayed. I was able to recognize the Spirit. It started in my head and moved down into my toes. It felt like a sweet, kind presence that I was missing before. From that point on I thought, “Of course I’m getting baptized. I know these things are true.” I was baptized shortly thereafter.

Were there particular doctrines of Mormonism that really resonated with you?

One of the things that resonated the most for me was the doctrine of eternal marriage. Up to that point, I had lost faith in marriage. My parents’ marriage went through many ups and downs. They stayed together, but I really questioned their decision to stay together after a point. Growing up, I idealized the relationship between Jean-Paul Sartre–the big existentialist philosopher–and Simone de Beauvoir, who was a great feminist in France. Sartre had his apartment in Paris. De Beauvoir had her apartment in Paris. They never got married. They never wanted children. They were a couple but they had their separate lives, too. That was my ideal: I would have my career. I would have my life. My significant other would have his own apartment and his own life, and we would meet up to eat together. When the missionaries taught me about celestial, eternal marriage, it was like a dream come true. All of the sudden, I realized that this type of marriage was right and true. I developed faith in a kind of marriage that can be wholesome and healthy and beautiful.

How did your family respond to your conversion?

My conversion to Mormonism was very difficult for my family as they were devout Catholics. I was baptized in Philadelphia, and they had a hard time with the fact that I had made this decision while I was so far away. I wrote to them, and we talked on the phone. My mom said, “You know you are an adult. It’s your choice. But watch out.” She was a little bit concerned as she had heard about polygamy. I tried to reassure her. Shortly after I was baptized, I returned to France. While I was home, my mom tried really hard to get me back into the Catholic Church. My grandmother was devastated because I was not participating in our cultural traditions like drinking a glass of good wine at dinner. My dad had these old bottles of wine that he had inherited from his father. They were still covered in dust when he placed them on the dinner table to show their age. I would not drink this wine, and my grandma said, “What is going on with you?” It was a little shocking to them.

I knew so deeply that I was doing the right thing that I was fine with their reactions. I prayed often that they would accept my choices, and eventually they did. Their feelings have really evolved.

What brought you back to America to stay?

I lived in France for a year after my baptism, and then felt this burning desire to go on a mission. I felt godly, divine intervention encouraging me to serve. I was called to England, and the first question my mission president asked me was, “What are your plans after the mission? Have you ever thought about Brigham Young University?” Although I planned on living in London after my mission, he planted the idea of BYU into my mind. I ended up changing my plans and moving to Provo to attend BYU after my mission.

While I was a graduate student at BYU, I taught French at the MTC and then got a job in BYU’s French department teaching beginning French language classes. One day during class, this tall, blue-eyed, blond student showed up, and my goodness, I could not help but notice him. Because I was teaching this class and he was a student, I couldn’t go out with him! The following semester when he was no longer in my class, we happened to find ourselves in the same seminar, this time both as students. He asked me out and we started dating. We didn’t date long before we got married, but we’ve been together for 14 years and have four children.

Do you have any plans to move back to France with your family?

Not in the near future. My husband currently works at BYU as a Humanities professor, and I am a part-time adjunct professor in the university’s French department. We try to take the family back to France every two years. Although some part of me hopes there will be another adventure in the future, raising children here in Utah has been perfect. I like that it feels safe. I love that we’re such a strong-knit community. I love that my children have many friends. I love that we are so close to nature and that we can experience it with the children. I love that we can easily go hiking or snowshoeing with them.

You live in a community that advocates traditional roles for women. Have you felt support from your peers as a woman and mother who works outside of the home?

In the culture I’m from, most women and mothers work outside of the home. Everything in French society is structured to support women’s professional lives. For example, day care is readily available for working mothers. My mom worked, and I was brought up with the expectation that all women work. People in my immediate community here are great about this. There are several moms like me who have one foot in the working world. My colleagues have been great. They know my family situation, and some of them have been so helpful. I’ve never felt criticized or been accused of being a bad mother. My husband and I have had to learn to juggle our schedules. Overall, though, I think my job has helped me become a better mother.

The home can be a very difficult environment–it’s a lot of menial tasks mixed with wonderful connections and relationships. I did not know what motherhood would be like when I got married. When I had my first child, we were living in Berkeley. I was not working the semester my first child was born and my husband was really busy completing his PhD.  I remember the first month of motherhood really well. As much as I loved this little baby and did not want anyone else to take care of him, I cried a lot. I wondered, “Who am I? Where am I? What am I doing? Who have I become?” All of the daily tasks were very menial and repetitive. The sleep deprivation was difficult. I’m glad I had that space to really crash with my baby and then survive together and grow to enjoy those moments with him. Now that my babies have grown and become a bit more independent from me, I like to be in the workplace engaging in other ways with people. It has also been good for me to step out of the house and get my mind in a book once in awhile. As a mother I feel like so many people need my attention at once, and it’s so busy. It’s been really healthy for me to ground myself in thought and study instead of doing, doing, doing all of the time.

Do you have any advice that you could give to young women who want to balance work and motherhood?

I could not do it without my husband. Having a husband who is wonderfully involved with the children is important. My husband knows how to take care of the kids and how to deal with the house. When he comes home from work he steps into this family universe, and he does wonders. Having his support is of primary importance. The second important factor for me is having a job that brings a lot of joy. My job has fed my mind and helped me build relationships with my students.

I can’t say that I’m juggling it all perfectly, though. Sometimes it’s not very graceful. Sometimes my kids see that I have too much work and that I’m stressed out. I try to apologize to my kids when that happens.

Do you think women living in America can have it all–career, family, social life, etcetera?

I asked my friend this week, “Can I have it all?” and she said, “You can have it all, but not the way the world sees ‘having it all’.” I think it is a very personal path. My version of “have it all” is very specific to my family and to my profession. I know that spiritual revelation will guide me through difficult decisions. I have felt God talking to me, leading me, and guiding me. This gives me a lot of courage and determination. The peace and love that I feel testify that God lives; even when doubt creeps in, I can turn to prayer and feel that knowledge of His love again. Faith in God’s love is what anchors me in this life as I continue to make family and career decisions.

I went to my mission president’s funeral a few years ago, and Elder Jeffrey R. Holland was there. During his address, he said that when we leave this life, we take three things with us: Our covenants with God, our relationships, and our character. As I go through life and repent of my attitudes or mistakes, I remember what Elder Holland said. I remember that I’m taking with me my covenants and the goodness that God has given me. When my kids are hugging me and pouring their love upon me, or when I feel so much love for my children and for my husband, I remember that this is eternal. No one can take this from me. This knowledge really gives me a foundation; it gives me roots even though I am thousands of miles from where I was born and raised. I am very grateful for this. I know that with God, all good things take place.

At A Glance

Marie-Laure Oscarson

Location: Provo, UT

Age: 44

Marital status: Married

Children: Four (ages 13, 10, 8, 4)

Occupation: Adjunct faculty at Brigham Young University

Baptism: September 1988

Schools Attended: BYU

Languages Spoken at Home: French and English

Favorite Hymn: ““Souviens-toi” (in French hymn book)

Interview by Krisanne Hastings. Photos used with permission.

As the co-author with her husband of the highly popular book, “The God Who Weeps,” Fiona Givens has thought deeply about the character of God and her responsibility to search out that true character in the scriptures. In this interview, she shares her personal reflections on how she searches for God’s true character, how her Catholic background has aided in her understanding of Christ’s importance, and how she passes that sacred knowledge to her children.

How do you define theology? When we say the word to members of the Church, it can mean either one of two things: either something that has come down from Joseph Smith or other prophets completely codified; or, there’s the other strain in Mormon thought which is that we have an open canon and we should think broadly about what our theology is. So what is it to you?

I define it as a sustained reflection on the divine. In Mormon terms, that would be having your heart constantly drawn out to the Lord, looking for the divine everywhere, finding footprints, imprints… Believing that everything truly testifies of Christ. I think it’s our responsibility as individual members of the Church, particularly women, to reflect upon the divine.

I think my background is important here. I was raised Catholic and I love that faith tradition. But the reason I became Mormon is that I felt that my faith tradition completely obscured Christ. He was concealed by a myriad of saints and particularly by His mother who had replaced Him as the mediator with God. He had essentially lost His position as our Intercessor with the Father and I felt that Mormonism put Christ front and center. Keeping Christ in this position, however, is always a battle; I’ve been a member of this Church long enough to know that keeping Christ central in any faith tradition is going to be difficult. I think the tendency towards idolatry is universal and it is tempting to displace God with other figures we find more accessible, easier to relate to, or heroes of our own fashioning. But it behooves us to keep Him central to our worship because He is the way back to our Father in Heaven.

I really love the admonition that we have to search the scriptures because I do agree with Joseph that many of the plain and precious things have been taken out, but I also agree with Edward Beecher [brother of Harriet Beecher Stowe] that many things have been put in there that are actually malevolent. Searching the scriptures is where I focus my energies; I am trying to do what Joseph asked us to do which is to find God’s correct character and attributes, because, as he said, it is only in knowing the character and attributes of God that we can exercise faith unto salvation. That’s huge for me. The canon is where we go to learn of God. Joseph is implying, that because incorrect characteristics and attributes have been placed there, we need to “search” through the scriptures to find those attributes that are actually God’s. Theology, in this sense, is, therefore, rigorous, requiring great personal investment but the rewards are marvelous, paradigm shifting moments of clarity and splendor.

I particularly love Revelation 12. You have this beautiful image of a woman with the stars and the moon… a gorgeous vision of this woman. She’s pregnant, she delivers her child… the child is caught up into heaven and then she is left to confront the dragon. We know the dragon is Lucifer because the scripture informs us that he took a third of the host of heaven with him. So you have this woman, who has just been delivered of her child, and she’s confronting Satan on her own. There is no way that she can withstand the assault. Verse 6 is the pivotal scripture and on that particular day when I read it, my whole universe was illuminated by joy and my Weltanschauung was forever altered.  It was pretty much like James 1:5 was for Joseph; it took my breath away: “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.” We read that she flees into the wilderness – what we call the apostasy – where she is fed of God. The church is not destroyed, it does not utterly disappear. It retreats underground, where the Spirit nourishes it. That was so overwhelming to me: how does God nourish a church in the apostasy? How does He nourish a church that no longer has priesthood keys and ordinances? Well, He sends her the greatest philosophers, poets, writers, composers and thinkers of all time. God doesn’t create ex nihilo; one can’t restore something that isn’t already there; the building blocks for the Restoration were always there. I mean, that’s just awesome.

For me, that was the beginning of a serious theological study of Joseph’s magnanimous mind. Joseph once said: “If the Presbyterians have truth, embrace that. If the Methodists, have truth embrace that too. Get all the good in the world if you want to come out a pure Mormon”. Truth and beauty were never taken from the world and Joseph saw the Restoration as exactly this: “the beginning of the rising up and the coming forth of my church out of the wilderness—clear as the moon, and fair as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners” (D&C 5:14).  Isn’t that revolutionary? It completely changes our view of what the apostasy was. It was a garden in which goodness, beauty and truth were nourished until they were ready to come forth to be reunited with Priesthood keys and ordinances now restored.

That’s part of my understanding of theology: to go truth-hunting. We can find truth everywhere. We will also find it mixed in with a lot of untruth. I think it’s important for us to realize that the fruit of knowledge of good and evil was on the same tree and not in different orchards. We will find truth oftentimes in very dark places. I think it was Brigham Young who said we should be prepared to go to hell to find truth if necessary.  It is a wonderful, expansive injunction given us by Joseph and Brigham–go out and bring truth home—to our church—to our lives.

When you say you studied Revelation and searched for things both left out and malevolently put in, what sort of tools did you use?

There is a beautiful scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants which encourages us to seek wisdom out of “the best books.” My education has not only brought into my life a number of best books but it has also taught me to apply the tool of close, textual reading with which to examine them. This is the same tool I use when searching the scriptures. I have found, through years of intense study, truths in these great books that have resonated with me as has truth in the scriptures. In fact, I find the same truths articulated in the best books but often more eloquently and profoundly. My scripture study on its own would be a barren enterprise were it not for the spiritually insightful and gifted writers who have come into my life and whose thoughts, ideas and expressions I treasure.

For example, had it not been for Victor Hugo’s “Les Misérables,” and his emphasis on a kind, merciful, benevolent and tender God, I may not have found the vulnerable God depicted in Moses 7. I believe that this God has suffered great injustice at the hands of the writers of the Old Testament, who have successfully portrayed Him as angry—genocidal even. But I believe with all my heart and mind that Julian of Norwich speaks truth when she says that she saw God and: “I saw verily that oure Lorde was nevyr wroth [angry] nor nevyr shall. For he is God, he is good, he is truth, he is love, he is pees [peace], and hys might, hys wisdom, hys charyte [charity]…sufferythg hym nott to be wroth [does not allow him to be angry]” (The Showings of Julian of Norwich, edited by Denise N. Baker, 64, parentheticals mine). If one looks hard enough, one can find Hugo’s and Julian’s God in the Old Testament.  Beneath the blood and smoke of Canaan runs the leitmotif that God’s hand is stretched out still. He set His heart upon us and He stays true to the covenant He made to love us always and to guide our stumbling steps, by His love that passeth all understanding, back to Him.

When you were discovering these truths through your close reading and the help of the spirit, how did you distinguish between something that is not necessarily available to be elaborated on, and those things that you can be free to expostulate upon? For instance, there are discussions today about identifying core doctrine and distinguishing it from things that we’ve just built cultural barriers around. How do you in your own life negotiate those points between core doctrine and identifying the fences that have been built up around that core doctrine?

As Mormons, we sometimes consider ourselves to be part of a tribe. I don’t consider myself to be part of a tribe, perhaps because I didn’t grow up Mormon in the Western United States. And I value that. To me the label “tribe” is so confining and restricting—a small group of people to whom everyone else is “the other”–separate.  The Gospel message, as I understand it, is universal in its application and appeal alike. While I have lived in the US for over 30 years, it is my early years growing up in East Africa, growing up Catholic and being educated in England that have informed the way I interact with Mormonism and the world in general. And my love of my heritage and my membership in the Gospel of Jesus Christ have  given me an interesting perspective—you could call it a wall on which to sit–from which I can look into American Mormonism and its culture on one side and into the rest of the world on the other.  Unfortunately, in my opinion,–perhaps as a result of this “tribal” perspective, Mormons have meshed things cultural with things doctrinal.  So much so, that it is now difficult to extricate the doctrine, which is valuable from the cultural, which is not, at least not to anyone outside the culture (the tribe).  However, I think it is essential that we separate the two because the core doctrine is universal but the culture is not. Culture, to my mind, makes the core doctrine difficult to access.  Joseph gave us enough core doctrine to empower us to explore it.  Each person, as he said, should be at liberty to access core doctrine and apply it to her life in whatever culture she lives and loves. But we need to recognize that the one is life-giving, the other is not.

I had some wonderful female mentors in the Church when I first joined, incredibly strong women, and I remember hearing them expound doctrine in stake and ward levels. I was impressed by that. There was one woman in particular at a conference I went to who spoke exclusively of Christ. And, perhaps it was the exception to the rule which is why it stood out to me so much, but I decided that I wanted to be that sort of a woman. I wanted to engage in scripture as she had, since it was obvious she had some real scriptural gravitas when it came to an understanding of Christ. The content was something she had gleaned herself; she had pursued this course on her own. I was impressed by that. I remember thinking: This woman has engaged with the scriptures with rigor. I want to do that.

I’ve also experienced women who have attempted to love me but found it very difficult because there were cultural things about the Church about which I balked. For instance, I’m not a huge Scouting fan. If my boys wanted to do Scouts, good for them. I supported them and provided them with the materials. But when I passed a sister in the grocery store and she informed me that she was on her last merit badge – meaning that she was self-identifying with her last son’s own Scouting efforts — I was stunned. No, I was not going to do the merit badge thing myself! I remember specifically there was a time when my boys were very little and there was a Cub Scout meeting or something, but they were out in the garden playing ball with their father. And I had a decision to make: Do I break them up, put them in the car and take them to their Cub Scout meeting, or do I leave them in the garden playing ball with their father? Which is most important for my boys? I decided that playing ball with their father was more important.

I think that determined my position from there on out. Scouting is not a doctrinal issue but I have been reprimanded by fellow sisters (not priesthood holders, interestingly enough) because I didn’t require my sons to attend. The root of many of my decisions regarding our involvement with Church programs has been this: if anything interfered with family time, it was assessed and if not considered beneficial, it was dropped. I’ve heard sisters stand up in church and say that they promote a church-service orientation in their homes. But then I’ve also heard Brethren counsel the reverse–that the programs are here to support us. In my experience, the two opposing views have been confused—at least at the ward level.  I know that I felt vilified, perhaps that’s too strong a word… but I was set apart as someone whose activity and level of righteousness was judged because of my emphasis on the importance of family time.

I think quite honestly that is a decision every parent—indeed, all of us—need to make: what is doctrinal? What is essentially salvific? And there are many activities in which we are engaged as church members that are not. We need to be allowed to choose for ourselves. These sisters who felt it incumbent upon them to lead me back to their particular path would probably be surprised by how intrusive and painful I found their shepherding.

What can women do today to take a greater lead in our theological explorations? How have you consumed and digested so much literature while raising six children? Presumably you were reading while you had children at home. What can we as women do today to do a better job of that ourselves?

One of the most important things we did as a family and one of the reasons I dropped so many church activities was reading together. For me, that familial dinner followed by reading to my children every night was crucial. It was sacrosanct. I allowed nothing to get in the way of it—well, until they were older and the necessary ferrying began. I introduced my children to phenomenal literature. We read all of C. S. Lewis’ books, we read Beatrix Potter, Tolkien, the Lloyd Alexander books… all out loud. Starting when they were very, very little. We finished the last of the Lord of the Rings trilogy just before my eldest son left on his mission. In fact, I was so busy at the time, that my husband, Terryl took over and my last vision of Nathaniel before he left us was of Terryl reading the final chapters to him over bowls of their favorite ice cream. And of course we read all of the Harry Potter books. We read them in English and in American! My children would follow along in the American version to point out the variances.

J.K. Rowling, to my mind, is a prophetess. I just think that woman is brilliant. If you think of the secular age in which so many children are being raised, the ideas of self-sacrifice, of love, of loyalty, of kindness… those are not being taught our children. I think she just gathered them all up and steeped her books in these virtues. The refrain in our house that preceded the hour or two of the reading was: “Mummy, is it Harry Potter time yet?”

So they were steeped in literature. I do not remember being read to as a child but I loved to read and read voraciously. That being said, it was very difficult for me to digest anything of real substance myself when my children were young. I was too exhausted. My brain ceased to function once they were tucked in bed. Perhaps that’s why it was so important for me to read to the children. It was the only way I could digest anything myself. But I thought it worked out very well indeed. There were some books I probably would not have read, like the Brian Jacques “Redwall” series and I may very well have missed out on the “Harry Potter” experience had I not my children in mind.

A wise woman once reiterated this truth to me:  that there are times and seasons and, as women, we should throw ourselves into them with gusto because they don’t last long. No, really, we think that our small-children-time with the constant cleaning and attention and never being able to wear something pretty is never going to end. It does. In the blink of an eye. Now that my children are grown, I find I have much more time to devote to literary exploration. I just finished a thorough study of Julian of Norwich’s Showings and am currently reading Edward Beecher’s Concord of the Ages and Margaret Barker’s two-volume treatise, entitled The Mother of the Lord.  I have also finished an in-depth study of Milton’s Paradise Lost, the majesty of which I was unable to fully appreciate as a teenager. My motto is: “If it’s difficult to read, it’s probably worth reading.”

That being said I also believe that women must jump on the boat of becoming theologians. We must understand our scriptures. We must understand the sweet doctrines of the Gospel. It is our responsibility to teach ourselves and to teach our children. I felt very strongly that the instruction of my children was my responsibility. As a mother of six precious children, it was given to me to secure the environment of our home. And I felt this as a Divine mandate: I was given this universe that was my home, to create a safe place – a haven – for my children—to protect them from evil—to expose them to the good, the true and the beautiful.  That’s why literature played such a huge part. I also screened very carefully what television programs and films we watched as a family. That’s not to say I was orthodox by any means. We viewed what I considered to be beneficial and/or enjoyable for the family. Again, I felt strongly, that securing the family’s well-being was my responsibility, my right, my duty.

Our Sunday after-church discussions were very important because Terryl and I could ascertain what the children were being taught in Primary and youth classes and gently correct if needed. It was particularly important for me, as a mother, to be really aware of the scriptures and have a familiar feel and knowledge of them so when my children said, “My teacher taught me this,” I could support it or correct it.  My husband’s knowledge of the scriptural record is phenomenal but I, too, felt the weight of that responsibility to teach and to redirect. Both Terryl and felt it our sacred duty as parents to ensure that our children were learning correct doctrine.  That is not to say that I think our knowledge is impervious to error.  We do the best with what we have and the limiting paradigms in which we swim.

An example is the Word of Wisdom. It seems like an innocuous thing. But when my daughter said to me, “Our friend is a bad person because he’s smoking,” I realized that I had to correct her false notion. We had a quick discussion about how smoking is not a thing that makes people bad. It is injurious to one’s health, yes, but our friend is not a bad person for smoking. On the other hand, if we smoked we would be violating a covenant that we’ve made to keep the Word of Wisdom, and we would be responsible for that violation. It was my sacred responsibility to make sure my children were learning correct doctrine in every setting.

It sounds like you feel motherhood is a rich opportunity for LDS women to explore and expand theology.

Yes and no.  Motherhood offers a rich opportunity but then do all the other stages of a woman’s life—teenagehood, singlehood, widowhood and all the other “hoods” in between.  It still behooves all women in the Church to be theologians. At one point or another we find ourselves in teaching callings. In fact, most of the callings we will be requested to engage involve instruction on one level or another—Primary, Sunday school, Young Women, Relief Society. We find ourselves in educational roles in and outside of the home, in and outside the Church. Education takes on myriad forms. We educate in the way we interact with our superiors at work, with our colleagues, with those lower down the work-place rung. For all these reasons—as well as for our own, personal edification, we need to be invested in exploring our doctrine and our scriptures.

As I mentioned before I have also been uplifted and edified by the non-canonical books I have read and continue to discover. Margaret Barker has encouraged my search of the Feminine Divine through her own work on the subject. Talk about a treasure hunt! The discussion of Wisdom in Proverbs is very provocative, for example. Wisdom is personified as a “she” and then we have this magical shift where the “she” becomes “I”. And she speaks: “I was in the beginning…” And it’s so reminiscent of the language in John 1. Then, there’s the whole reevaluation of the role of Eve. In our faith tradition she is depicted as the great heroine of the human family. It was her courage and initiative that moved humanity forward in their progress to return to the Father. In our faith tradition her initiative is celebrated and she is venerated as the Mother of humanity. She is not easily co-opted into a nefarious scheme. She weighs the advantages and disadvantages of eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and she chooses.  On her choosing God makes this pronouncement: “they have become as one of us.” With her elevation to the role of heroine and champion of the human race, all women are likewise elevated. It is wonderfully liberating and empowering. This alone would make me proud to be a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  But there is so much besides!

What does it mean to you to have a female eternal identity?

I feel empowered by my female eternal identity. This is influenced heavily by our belief in a Heavenly Mother. That resonates with me. Really, can one have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Son without a Heavenly Mother?

I have always had a very good sense of self anyway; it may have had to do with the fact that I was educated in an all-female environment. I came out of that whole educative experience with a very strong sense of the strength of my identity as a woman. I also come from a historical and religious tradition of strong women leaders from Queen Boudicea to Mother Teresa. So, coming into the LDS faith tradition and then meeting Heavenly Mother was confirmation of everything I already felt. I would actually say that my background engendered in me a feeling of superiority rather than equality. I think this is why Eve resonates so strongly with me as does Adam’s portrayal of her in Milton’s Paradise Lost. For us school girls, young men proved to be invaluable dance partners and, if they added something intelligible to the conversation, that was always a plus.

Which is probably why I’ve never fallen for the myth of infallible leaders either. I think it’s a very dangerous undertaking for us to airbrush our prophets and Priesthood leaders. Brigham Young himself said, “I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.” That’s extraordinary. I start to worry when I see us putting others’ faces up on our walls in lieu of the Lord.

It’s interesting to me that you have all this confidence as a woman and you love the feminine divine, and yet it was the over-importance of Mary in the Catholic faith that alerted you to that faith’s shortcomings. The religion that did put a woman in the forefront was actually suspect exactly because of that. It shows me that putting Christ in the forefront is actually a gender-neutral solution to focusing on those things that are most important.

Absolutely. As a school girl, my historical and literary interests were, to a great extent, centered on the First World War. Wilfred Owen and Siegfried Sassoon have been two of the most influential poets in my life with their stark depictions of war.  When “the flower” of Europe was being mowed down to whom were these young men crying in their death agony? It wasn’t their fathers. It was their mothers. We have, with the feminine, this idea of self-sacrifice and mercy and love and all of those beautiful attributes which Christ himself epitomizes. He is the one to whom both men and women can go for solace and understanding. However, I also think it is very interesting that He is mostly surrounded by women and that it to a woman He first appears when He is resurrected. I find Christ’s focus on women particularly empowering. The road to Golgotha, the gospels note, are lined primarily by women. It is that vulnerability in Christ to which we are particularly attuned as women. We, more than men, perhaps, understand what it is like to be vulnerable. And while men also can appreciate His vulnerability—Edward Beecher and Dietrich Bonhoeffer are excellent examples—it is women who recognize the Divine vulnerability for the salvific power that it is.  I am reminded of Charles Dickens’ powerfully moving portrayal of Nancy in Oliver Twist. Christ’s entire life is an act of vulnerability, from His birth to His death, and for me as a woman that resonates very strongly.

Is there anything else you’d like to share?

I feel that women in the scriptures are there to prove that the Lord doesn’t work in any set pattern. And because they defy pattern-making, they are the evidence that the Lord reaches out to those you least expect.

As soon as we limit ourselves to a specific kind of revelatory reception, we fail to see God in our lives. I think the women of the scriptures prove that God breaks patterns! It’s as though He’s saying: Don’t fall into a pattern because you will lose sight of me. If everything testifies of Christ, we need to be able to see His Presence reflected in myriad ways. Whenever we become too comfortable in our paradigms, that is the time for a shift. The Lord wants us to look for Him in the chaos and disorder that is often our life experience. It is then the revelation comes and we experience that we are loved by Someone whose vulnerable beauty draws us to Him with an infinite and loving power. It is then we see God’s gentle face all around us, “lovely in limbs, and lovely in eyes not his…” (Gerard Manley Hopkins)

At A Glance

Fiona Givens

Location: Richmond, VA

Age: 55

Marital status: Married to Terryl Givens

Children: Six: 32,30, 28, 26, 24, 20

Occupation: Independent scholar, co-author of “The God Who Weeps”

Schools Attended: University of Richmond—BA in German and French, MA in European
History

Favorite Hymn: “God Is Love” arranged for women

Interview by Neylan McBaine. Photos used with permission.

Growing up in a Mormon family, Jamie is a second-generation Church member in Hong Kong. In her teenage years, she struggled with her testimony of the gospel and distanced herself from the Church, despite her parents both having high-profile callings. But her parents and friends continued to love and support Jamie. She eventually returned to the Church and developed a strong testimony, which led her to happiness and helped shape her future life.

What was your teenage life like? Why did you stop going to church during that time?

When I was a teenager, I was not satisfied with my life. I thought that I should be happy by being a member of the Church; however I was not happy and not satisfied at all. During that time my two older brothers decided not to go to church anymore. I was somehow influenced by them and I wanted to experience life without Church influences. From my observation, my friends from school were happy without the Church and the gospel. I wondered why they were so happy but I was not. I envied them because they could go hang out on Sundays. I thought I would be happier not going to church and hanging out with my friends instead. I even questioned my own testimony and doubted that I had ever had one. Some teenagers like me, who are born and raised in the Church, question if the testimony that we had or have is from our parents and family or from our own searching. If we only rely on our parents’ and family’s testimonies and do not search for our own, we can struggle over our identity and question our faith. During that time I did not think I had gained my own testimony. Attending church seemed to limit my happiness and seemed like a waste of time, so I let my parents know that I did not want to go to church with them anymore. It was shocking news to my family.

When did you start to feel that you should attend church again?

I stopped going to church and decided to experience the “real world,” have my own life, and do my own thing. After a while I asked myself if I was happier than I was before, and my answer was “No.” Unhappiness still surrounded me, triggered by my feelings towards the Church, and by issues that arose with my family and my friends. I thought I would be happier and have more freedom by not going to church, but in fact I felt the opposite way. On one particular night, I found myself sitting in my room, feeling very upset. I felt like I should pray but I was hesitant to do so because I hadn’t prayed for a long time. All of a sudden my parents’ advice came into my mind. After I stopped going to church,my mother would always encourage me to pray even though I didn’t feel like doing it. At that very moment, I remembered clearly her advice and I knelt down and prayed.

I had a special feeling; I felt as if someone patted me on the shoulder and said, “Everything will be alright. Don’t worry.” I felt peace inside my heart and this calm and peaceful feeling swept my sadness away.

At that time I did not recognize that the special feeling I had was from the Spirit. I wanted to attend church services again but I hesitated to return to church because I was afraid of criticisms from others. It was not easy for me, as a young woman who was born and raised in the Church, to return to the Church again after being inactive for a while. I had many concerns about my return: Church members might think that I was not worthy enough to come back to the Church or they might think that I had done something wrong. These heavy thoughts triggered my worries and I was reluctant to return.

Jamie with her parents

At first I went to church on and off, and tried to ignore criticisms from others. During that time I still did not have a strong testimony of the gospel or our Savior, but I was willing to support my mother and her calling in the Church. And it was during this special period of time that I started to learn the gospel sincerely and diligently. Gradually my testimony grew stronger. I started to read the scriptures, even though my reading progress was very slow. With my parents’ encouragement to read a few verses a day, I started to understand why parents want and encourage us to read the scriptures. They want us to feel for ourselves. And, little by little, I started to build up my faith.

Later on when I reflected on this experience, I recognized the warm feeling that I had when I was kneeling and praying alone in my room that night. The special feeling was from the Spirit. This experience became one of the most significant moments of my life. It taught me how to recognize spiritual promptings.

Tell us about your parents.

During the period when I decided to go my own way and leave the Church, my mother was called to be the ward Young Women president. One night, she sat down with me and we had a talk. She told me that the bishop had extended this calling to her and she had told him she wanted to talk to me first before she accepted the calling. My mother told me that it would be wonderful to have me to come to church and support her in the Young Women organization. I guessed that it would not easy for my mother to be the ward Young Women president while her own daughter, who was of Young Women age, was not active in the Church. I was glad that she shared her feelings with me because she showed me that I had a special place in her heart. I was touched by her honesty and bold invitation to return to church. I promised her I would return.

My mother is a wise and genuine woman. I have learned a lot from her example and how she treats others. When my mother was called to be the Relief Society president, she told me that she would not be involved with any gossiping. She taught me to be true to the people around us and help them with a sincere heart. She said we should show our care by our actions, not by our words only.

My mother showed her patience with me while I was not active in the Church. When I decided to find my own happiness in the “real” world and leave the Church, my mother did not give up on me. She continued to support me and love me as her daughter. I remember I had many ear piercings. I thought it was trendy and beautiful. My mother kindly advised me not to have more than one pair of ear piercings and to listen to the counsel we’d received from the prophet. I did not understand why my mother kept persuading me to take off the extra earrings. She said if I wanted to keep the commandments and follow Christ, I should show my obedience to Him, even in a small matter such as this. At first I doubted, because I thought having many ear piercings was trendy and “cool.” But I obeyed; I kept only one pair of earrings in my ear. Even though it seems like a minimal decision, this was the decision that taught me to be 100% obedient. I am grateful for my mother’s kind words and her persistence in reminding me of the importance of keeping the commandments and listening to the prophet’s counsel.

When I was not active in the Church, my father was the stake president. I remember many people came up to me and said how grateful they were because of my parents, and how much they admired my parents. Many people told me that my father was a great man. I was confused because in my mind he was just my father; I did not see him as other people saw him, as a church leader. Sometimes when people told me that my father was a great man and a very responsible leader, I questioned myself and wondered if he was really as good as people mentioned. Eventually I learned a lesson. I was at a stake conference when my father was serving as the stake president. At every stake conference members are asked to sustain their leaders by raising their hands. When it was time to sustain my father as the stake president, I saw everyone in the chapel raise their hands and sustain my father and support him. I was stunned. I reflected on this scene and started to think, “All these people are here to support my father. What about me? He is my father and I know I should support him and his calling. He needs my support. I am his daughter.” This experience increased my desire to attend church and to support my parents. It helped me to understand the love and support my parents had given to me. I am indeed grateful for their examples and their love for the gospel.

I love my parents. It must not have been easy for them to have a daughter like me who had doubts about the gospel. But during the time when I was not active in the Church, my parents continued to show their love to me. They continued to encourage me to pray even though I did not feel like doing it. They encouraged me to read the scriptures, even just a few verses every day. When I was not active in the Church, I did not pay much attention to their words. Now when I look back, I am grateful for their patience and persistence. They never gave up on me. Without them, I would not be able to be who I am today.

What was next in life after your reactivation in the Church? And what have you learnt?

There are several goals that I had during that time. My first goal was to attend Brigham Young University Hawaii. Since my high school academic performance did not meet the entry requirements and I did not attend seminary during my teenage years, I had to work extra hard to get accepted. I tried my best to finish all the seminary classes and did as much as I could to achieve my academic goals. I was rejected the first time I applied, but after I reapplied I finally got accepted.

Jamie with her husband

Going to school at Brigham Young University Hawaii was truly the turning point of my life. While I was there I was spiritually nourished and I came to know the path that I should follow. My life goals became clear. My faith in the Lord Jesus Christ was strengthened and my testimony became stronger and stronger. Later on, with my friend’s wonderful example and my desire, I decided to serve a mission.

I had two best friends when I was a student at Brigham Young University Hawaii and we are still best friends now. They are Joan and Vickie. They lifted me up when I was spiritually low. They taught me how to be Christ’s disciple through their wonderful examples. They encouraged me to serve a mission. They are truly my best friends. I am grateful to have friends like them in my life.

One time, Joan’s friend was sent to the hospital. Joan was crying and worried about her friend. I tried to comfort her. Vickie suggested that we should kneel and pray, and fast for Joan’s friend. We knelt and prayed for Joan’s friend and fasted the next day. At the time I did not completely understand the reasons for fasting, but I followed my friends’ suggestion and it was indeed a spiritual and wonderful experience. I thought to myself, “None of my friends are like them!” They taught me to rely on God when challenges and difficulties come. They taught me the importance of acting on gospel principles. I am grateful for their influence in my life.

Later on, both Joan and Vickie went on missions. Because of their great influence, I prepared to serve a mission also. Through my parents’ teachings and my friends’ examples, my testimony grew stronger. Maybe I am just an ordinary woman, but I have a great desire to serve. During my mission, I shared with people my testimony of God and the gospel. I also shared my story of having transformed from a rebellious daughter with doubt in the gospel to a woman who now has a strong testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The first email I received from my father while I was on my mission was very touching. My father said my family was proud of me. He said he saw God’s hand in my life and said I had  grown in the gospel. While I was on my mission, my two older brothers were still not active in the Church. I did not know if the decision I made to serve a mission would make an impact on them or not. But I could feel that my family had grown closer together. My little brother chose to serve a mission because he had the desire to serve, and I was so glad that he made that choice.

I have learned that if I make a wrong decision, I will miss many of God’s blessings in the future. If I give up, I will not be able to receive blessings prepared by God for me. I might not be rich or have all the things that I want, but my heart is full of gratitude. I am grateful for my lovely parents and their examples. Now I have my own family and am expecting my first baby. I will apply what I have learned from my parents and from my own experiences to strengthen my own family. I am grateful to have my faithful husband who holds the priesthood and blesses my family. I am grateful that Heavenly Father did not give up on me when I had doubts. He helped me along the way and led me to the fountain of happiness.

At A Glance

Kar Yue Jamie Pon

Location: Laie, Hawaii

Age: 25

Marital status: Married in the Hong Kong Temple on July 7th 2012

Children: First will be born in June

Schools Attended: BYU-Hawaii

Languages Spoken at Home: Cantonese

Favorite Hymn: “Teach Me To Walk”

Interview by Grace Kwok. Photos used with permission.

Where did you grow up?

In Mexico, in the state of Guanajuato, in a beautiful city called Acambaro. It’s an ancient city, and it’s very beautiful. Acambaro is famous for its bread. They make really delicious bread there.

How many kids were in your family growing up?

There were nine of us kids in total — seven girls and two boys. But three of my siblings died as newborn babies. I only remember the youngest baby that died. My mother’s last pregnancy was twins, and the boy twin died in infancy. The girl twin lived and is grown and married now.

Have you always been a member of the LDS Church?

I was baptized when I was just a little girl, when I was eight years old. My parents were converts to the LDS Church. When my father was younger, he had been studying to be a priest in the Catholic Church, so I come from a very religious heritage. My parents, my grandparents, everyone was Catholic before. They always liked religious things. My parents were introduced to the Mormon Church when I was a little girl. So we were all baptized when we were young. We grew up inside the church.

How involved were you with the church when you were growing up in Mexico?

You could say that I had my moments of rebellion like any other teenager. I can’t say I was always perfect. But I went through the primary program and then the Young Women program. I loved the church; I always knew it was a good place to be. Of course, there were times when the classes bored me. So I’d leave class, and my dad would come to find me in the hallways, and tell me to go to class.

My family, particularly my father, was very strict about religious matters. My father enforced Sunday as a day of rest. As many youth experience, I didn’t like all the rules and always having to go to church. It became monotonous for me. And I saw the other teenage girls getting all fixed up on Sundays to go out to the parks and to walk around town, and here I was, locked up in my house on Sundays, just watching all the other girls through my little window. I remember it was very difficult for me.

We read scriptures together every day as a family. My father also made sure we had Family Home Evening every Monday night. With so many kids, sometimes we ended up fighting and debating each other. A funny memory I have about Family Home Evening–you have to understand that my father was very strict with us girls. One of the rules was that he didn’t like to let us go out very much to hang out with our friends or walk around town. But I knew that when we held our family council together during Family Home Evening, I could ask him for permission to do things, and because it was family council he would be more likely to give me permission to do what I wanted. So I would save up my requests to go out and do things with my friends for when we had our family council. And if I asked him then, my dad would always say yes.

Did you attend seminary?

All my brothers and sisters and I attended seminary. We got up at 5:00 am and went to the chapel. The seminary teacher was really nice and would meet us there with a lesson and with a small breakfast–hot tea and cookies. Every day! And from seminary we would go straight to school. It’s different there in Mexico than it is here–the churches aren’t so far away from the schools. So it was easy for us, as we didn’t have to drive long distances to go to seminary. There were usually about fifteen to twenty youth in each seminary class.

When did you gain your testimony of the gospel?

As I went along, I grew up, and started my independent life as an adult woman. I began to think about the church, and whether I had a real testimony or not. When I met the young man who would become my husband, he wasn’t a member of the church, but I taught him about the church. He eventually accepted the church, was converted, and he even went on a mission. I made that a prerequisite to marrying me–that he had to go on a mission. He served a full-time mission for two years in Puebla, Mexico.

But I feel that I gained my real testimony of the church later in life. When I arrived in the U.S., I was a young mom, and I didn’t know how to get to church. I didn’t know where it was located, I didn’t know how to drive, and I didn’t know anyone. So I began to grow apart from the church, and that had never happened before in my life. But I began to miss the church, and I began to really need the messages and teachings of the church.

I didn’t want to go to church just out of habit, or because it was what my parents had always done. I wanted to do it for me, and for the right reasons. But I didn’t know if I could say I had a testimony of the church. So I prayed to God for a testimony. I always had lots of faith in God since I was a child. I always knew I wasn’t alone. I knew God was always going to answer my prayers. So I began to pray again. I began to ask whether the church was really true, if it was what I really needed in my life. But God didn’t answer me at that time.

Even though I hadn’t received an answer, I started going back to church again anyway. Members would pick me and give me a ride, and I just kept going to church, to see if I could get an answer. But I hadn’t resolved my anxiety about whether the church was true or not.

So did the answer ever come?

One time I was invited by some ward members to go on a trip to Nauvoo. I wasn’t very prepared for this trip, but I went anyway. Many members went together on this trip in large vans. I remember that it was raining, and it was very cold. We went to visit Nauvoo, and the other church history sites. We went to the jail where Joseph Smith was held prisoner, and it was there that I gained my real testimony of the church. When I entered into that jail I felt something strong–something beautiful. There was a tape recording with the voices of Joseph Smith and Hyrum, and while it was playing I felt a warmth inside of me. It was so strong! I began to cry, and I couldn’t stop. And I knew, I really knew, from that moment, that it was real. That God really can talk to us, that nothing is impossible, and that we can receive revelation. The Spirit testified to me that it was true, and that everything Joseph went through to give us the church, to give us the Book of Mormon, that all of this was real. It was so real. This is how I received my testimony.

Why did you decide to come to the United States?

I came to the U.S. because my husband came here. When we first got married, he went up to the U.S. to work for a few months. When our first daughter was born, I was actually alone, because he was in the U.S. working to earn money for our family. There weren’t a lot of jobs in our town so he didn’t have many options. My daughter was several months old before she met her father for the first time. And then he’d only been home for a few months when he needed to leave to go earn money again, and I didn’t want to have this separation for us, for our family, for my life. I knew as a married woman I had an obligation to be at my husband’s side, and I also knew that the best place for my daughter to be raised would be with a father in the house. So I decided to go to the U.S. My husband kept saying that he was only going to stay in the U.S. for a short period of time, but I knew otherwise. I knew how it would end up–that we’d always be separated. My husband in the U.S., me in Mexico, our daughter without a father.

What options did you have to come to the United States?

I started to investigate coyotes–the people who you could pay to bring you to the U.S. illegally. But that type of arrangement made me very nervous, because crossing the border can be dangerous, and my daughter was only a few months old. I had no experience with this kind of thing, and I didn’t want to put my child at risk, nor put myself at risk.

My mom was very nervous when I announced my intention to follow my husband to the U.S. She said to me, “Look, I know you want to be with your husband, but don’t put your baby in danger. It’s too risky. Leave your baby here with me, I’ll raise her, and then you can join your husband in the U.S.”

That night I was thinking, thinking, thinking about what my mom said. I looked at my baby sleeping next to me, and I thought about leaving her. I knew if I left her to go to the U.S., it would not be easy to come back and see her. I knew it might be many years before I came back, and I knew I just couldn’t do it. I realized that the purpose wasn’t just for me to go and be with my husband, it was to reunite us as a complete family. I didn’t want my daughter to grow up without the love of both of her parents. So I decided I couldn’t leave her. But I also wasn’t willing to put her life in danger. I didn’t know what to do.

But God is good, and God prepared a way for us to come to the U.S. I was inspired to have an idea about how to arrive in the U.S. safely. My Heavenly Father showed me His power and love through the power of prayer. I have no doubt of God’s existence, and I know He isn’t far from us ever. He is always in constant communication with us. I began to pray to my Heavenly Father. I told Him how much I wanted to be with my husband, the man I had promised to be with. But I also told him how much I desired to be with my daughter, and how much I wanted her to be raised with two parents. I told God, “You know my husband isn’t really coming back. You know we’re never going to be able to have a normal life–he’s going to be there, and I’m going to be here. Please help me! I don’t want to put myself or my daughter at risk. But you know how to fix this, you will find a manner in which to help us.”

How did God prepare a way for you to come to the U.S.?

The idea came that I should try to get a visa, and with a visa I could travel safely to the U.S. to join my husband. I decided that I would do everything on my side to get a visa, to work as hard as I could, and that if I did my part, God would do His part. So I started all the paperwork. It’s miraculous, because to get a visa, you have to show that you have a lot of money, that you have a profession, that when you go to the U.S. you won’t become a burden. You have to show that you have a career and property in Mexico that you’ll be coming back to. But I had nothing. I was a young mom. I lived with my parents. I had no money, and I am not a very educated person. But I told God that if He would help me get the visa and get to the U.S., I would promise to always do good things while I was there, that I would never become a burden on the country or the people who lived there.

But isn’t it pretty hard to get a visa?

When I was working on the visa paperwork, no one believed I would be able to do it. My in-laws said, “Quit dreaming. It’s never going to happen. What makes you think you’re ever going to get a visa?” Everyone laughed and made fun of me. Everyone said I was crazy. They told me stories about really wealthy people they knew who had tried to get visas and were denied because even for them it wasn’t enough. But I didn’t listen to them. I knew I had put my life in the hands of the most powerful Being of all. So I continued with the process.

When the time for my visa interview came, I went to the consulate the night before, so that I could sleep on the street outside to save a place in line. The line was so long, probably hundreds of people. During the night I talked to many of the people waiting in the line. One man told me about how he owned a large ranch and how he had a lot of resources to show to the consulate to prove why he deserved a visa. I was ashamed to tell him that I had nothing. I had basically just a small sum of money that one of my brothers-in-law had given me, so that I could put it in my bank account to show the consulate that I had financial resources to provide for myself while I was in the U.S.

But inside I said to myself, “I have you, Lord, I don’t need anything else. If it’s your will that I get the visa, I will get it. You know that I don’t have any bad intentions in my desire to go to the U.S. You know my heart. I just want to reunite with my husband and provide a good life for our daughter.”

What happened during the visa interview?

When my turn came to talk with the officer, it was a very short conversation. He said to me, “Where do you plan to go?” I said, “To the United States.” He asked me, “But where are you going to stay?” and I said “I am going to stay with my husband.” He asked me about my financial solvency, and I showed him my bank account papers. He glanced at the papers for just a moment, and then he looked into my eyes and said, “You pass.” And he sent me to go stand in the line with the people who had passed the interview and would be getting a visa. I couldn’t believe it! These are the miracles that the Lord gives us when we put our confidence in him.

Later that day I ran into some of the people who had been in line with me the night before. I found out that the man who owned the ranch was not given a visa. I don’t know why the officer gave me the visa, other than that God had answered my prayers.

I came home from the consulate crying out with joy. I went and spoke with my in-laws and the others who hadn’t believed in me. I told them, “I got the visa! I got the visa!” and they could hardly believe it. And I didn’t just get a visa for me, I got a visa for my baby daughter as well.

I called my husband in the U.S. and said “When do you want us to come? Because we have visas and we can come anytime you want.” That was fifteen years ago.

If you came here legally with a visa, how did you become an undocumented immigrant?

Although my daughter and I entered legally with visas, after a certain period of time we didn’t have legal immigration status anymore, because our visa status expired. If you don’t have valid visa status, life is really hard for you in the U.S. When I needed to start working, I began to realize how difficult it is to be undocumented here in this country. For many years I was able to stay home with my daughters and take care of them while my husband worked. But when I had to start working, I saw that the only jobs I would be able to get were the jobs that paid minimum wage, or even less than minimum wage.

What are some of the jobs you’ve had since coming to the U.S.?

My first job here was in a Kool-Aid factory. My job was to pack the envelopes of powdered Kool-Aid into boxes. There were hundreds of envelopes of Kool-Aid, packed into hundreds of boxes every hour, all to be shipped out around the country. It was difficult because the machine that brought us the envelopes was very fast, and I wasn’t used to moving my hands so quickly. It was hard to keep up. And doing the same movement with my hands all day caused my muscles in my wrists to become inflamed. I developed carpal tunnel syndrome.

After my second daughter was born here in the U.S., I had other jobs as well. But it kept getting harder and harder to get a job. I found that most places wouldn’t allow me to work for them unless I presented a social security number to prove I was here legally. So the types of jobs that I really wanted to have, they wouldn’t allow me to work there. The only places where people were willing to hire me were the jobs no one else wanted. I got a cleaning job in a restaurant. I worked seven days a week, 365 days a year. I was never allowed a day off, not even for Christmas or other holidays.

What kind of work do you do now?

Today I work as a cook. I love my job. I am so grateful for this opportunity. I have always liked being in the kitchen, and I love being around people. I love to chat with people, and this job is perfect for that. I prepare food at a deli counter. I am in charge of a deli station. I open it up every morning at 10:00 am, and I make the food specials each day that my boss instructs me to make. I attend to the people, serve them their food, and I try to practice English with them as all of my customers are Americans. I try to speak English as much as I can. I’ve been at this job for over a year now. I’m very excited about my job, because it’s a fun place to work. I like it a lot.

What is the church like for you here in the U.S.?

I attend a very united ward–a Spanish ward. We are truly just one big family. We have maybe 200 or so active members. We have been growing a lot lately. A family with six kids just moved in the ward! I have been attending this same ward since I first came to the U.S., and it’s where I’ve had a lot of spiritual development.

The majority of the members of our ward are undocumented. Well, primarily the parents do not have documents, but most of the children are born here so they are U.S. citizens. Many of the kids even have a hard time speaking Spanish at church, because they speak English at school all day. Some of the parents try to teach their children Spanish and have a hard time.

I don’t think that the smaller children understand about their parents being undocumented, so I don’t think it affects them too negatively. But as they get older, I would say around eight or nine years old, they start to hear about their parents’ status and it makes them feel scared that someday they might be left here without their parents. They worry that their parents could be taken away from them and never return. They know that their parents could be deported to their country, and yet the kids would have to stay here because they belong to this country now.

The kids in the ward also experience discrimination in school, because of the color of their skin, and because people assume that their parents are undocumented. They feel this rejection from the community, and it negatively affects them. It’s like a dark shadow that follows them around, always, reminding them that they are different from the others.

What are some of the challenges of being in a ward with so many undocumented immigrants?

A few years ago, there was a warning on the Spanish radio station that there was going to be a police checkpoint or road blockade in our area, and that INS was going to be stopping cars and checking people’s papers. We decided to go to church anyway, but when we entered we discovered the chapel was almost empty. During sacrament meeting, the bishop stood up and said how sad he was to see that so many members of the ward had decided to stay home. He challenged us to have more faith in God. He said that if God had brought us all the way to this country, he would protect us while we are here. He reminded us that when we are on the Lord’s errand, it doesn’t matter whether we are documented or undocumented. God doesn’t have borders or bars separating anyone from his blessings. God doesn’t care about immigration papers. God only cares about our hearts. God wants us to have confidence in him, and to make good choices to live our lives righteously. So long as we are doing our best, God will protect us in this country.

Tell us about your calling.

For the past two years I have been serving as the primary president. This calling has been challenging to me, because it’s something completely new for me. It’s a large responsibility to be in charge of all of the children. There are about thirty-five or forty kids that regularly come to primary. For me, as a president, I feel such a great responsibility to teach the children, to inculcate in them a testimony from a young age. It’s so important that they have a strong testimony of our brother Jesus Christ and of our Heavenly Father. This is my main goal in my calling: I want them to grow into young women and young men with strong testimonies of who their Father is and where they come from–to know that they are never alone.

Besides teaching them on Sundays, we have lots of activities. I love having children near me. I want them to feel like they always have a friend. Sometimes I like to pretend in my mind like I am a child again, so I can put myself at their level and understand them better. We recently had such a fun activity, we had a water balloon fight and all of the kids were chasing after me and throwing their balloons at me. It was so fun for me, to be totally surrounded by these wonderful kids. One of the greatest satisfactions I have is when a child comes close to me, hugs me, and tells me, “Sister, I love you.” Priceless. This is the greatest gift I could ever receive from them–to receive of their pure love.

While you have been serving as the primary president, you’ve also experienced other challenges. Tell us about those challenges.

This calling came to me at a very difficult time in my life–probably the most difficult time I’ve ever had. It was right at the same time I was in the process of officially separating from my husband due to some abusive circumstances that had been going on for many years. So when the bishop extended the calling to me, I prayed to God and told Him I didn’t think this was the right moment for me to be taking on this calling. I didn’t feel worthy or prepared. I intended to tell the bishop that I was going to reject the calling. But when I prayed about it, I realized I couldn’t do that to my Heavenly Father.

Many times over the past two years I’ve asked myself why I had to receive this calling now. It’s been hard being a single mom, and the divorce process has been so difficult. At several points I’ve held two full-time jobs, all while being the primary president at the same time. It’s also been tough because both of my counselors went inactive after they were called, and we struggle to have consistent teachers. There was one Sunday when not a single primary teacher showed up for church! There have been many challenges. But I know that I’m not doing this calling for the bishop, I’m doing this calling for the Lord and for the kids. It’s truly one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever had in my life.

I have received an answer as to why God wanted me in this calling at this time–it has been such a blessing to me. My testimony has grown so much in this calling. And it has strengthened me emotionally. There have been times when I’ve been so sad and depressed about my marriage situation, and then I’ve gone to primary and immediately upon sitting down next to a child, I’ve been surrounded by such a peaceful feeling. My heart has been filled with happiness and joy.

One time a little girl stood up to give a talk in Primary, and she spoke the most beautiful words of pure truth about her feelings about God, about how she knew God loved her. It touched my heart so much, and I realized what a blessing it is to serve in the primary. If I hadn’t had this calling, I don’t know if I would have had the strength I needed to leave my husband and start a new life. I might have ended up going back to him, as I had many times before, if I hadn’t been strengthened by the kids. God knows what we need in all moments. He has our lives in his hands. We just need to trust him.

What do you wish that people understood about life in the U.S. for undocumented immigrants?

In reality, it’s very difficult. I wish that everyone who was born here in the U.S. or has legal status could understand a little bit about us and our lives. I want them to know that our lives cannot be conducted in a normal way. Our lives are limited, and this frustrates us. We are people who have dreams, and we have goals. We want to progress and move forward, and without documents we are limited. There are things we are not permitted to achieve.

We feel that the people reject us, that they don’t want us here because we aren’t documented, or perhaps because of our race. We know that we are qualified for certain jobs, but because of the fact that we don’t have a piece of paper, we cannot obtain those jobs. This is so frustrating and so sad. So we just focus on surviving. We have to survive. We fight so we can survive. An undocumented person experiences many miseries in this country. We can’t continue with our education, or with a career, as adults, and we also see that our children who weren’t born in this country have the same limits placed upon them. It’s heavy. It’s a sadness we have.

To not have our papers, it means we can’t get drivers licenses, or other things that are part of a normal life here. So we confront difficult situations. There are so many risks to being here. We know that at any moment we can be picked up, and sent back to our country. We know that we could be separated from our children, that they might have to be alone. But we continue forward, and we can’t have fear. We just have to have faith.

What are your biggest fears?

We fear everyday when we leave to go to work, that since we’re driving without licenses we may be picked up. We know every morning that when we drive to work, there is a possibility that we won’t see our children again. At a moment, we could be detained, held, and investigated as if we were criminals–just because we want to drive to work or to church. The laws right now are hard. When people are detained by immigration, the bail money is set so high–they ask for amounts that are impossible for people who are just struggling to get by day to day.

So I fear leaving the house every morning, not knowing what will happen to me on the way to or from work. If I am picked up, I’ll have to face a judge, a judge who will decide my fate without considering everything good I’ve done in this country, or that one of my daughters is a U.S. citizen, or that I have dreams, goals, or anything else. It’s very scary to think about.

I also fear waking up one morning and no longer having a job. I know that if I don’t work, I won’t be able to feed my children. There is no safety net for people like us. It may sound drastic, but it’s my reality. It’s how I live. I greatly fear not having a job or the ability to work and provide for my family.

How do you have the strength to keep going?

I just focus on my children. I have two daughters, I am a single mom. I have to survive so that they can have a better life. And I remind myself that even though I don’t have papers, I shouldn’t be robbed of my dreams. I can still dream of a better life, of a better situation. I focus on just finding as many opportunities for myself and my daughters that I can.

Several months after the initial interview, Rebecca met up with Maria again. During this time, Maria had been granted a U-Visa and is now on a pathway to legal permanent residency and eventually U.S. Citizenship.

How were you able to fix your papers and obtain legal immigration status in the U.S.?

God has given me so many miracles in my life. I am only here now because it is God’s plan for me. It is His will. As a survivor of domestic violence, I was able to qualify for a U-Visa. The government gives U-Visas to people who have been the victims of crimes and who help the police investigate those crimes. I look back now on the years of violence I endured, and while it was so horrible and so difficult, I have come to realize that without those experiences I would never have qualified to receive a U-Visa, and my daughter and I both would have remained as undocumented immigrants. Isn’t it interesting how the Lord works? God allowed me to have such difficult challenges, but then God put me in the right place at the right time to meet the people who would help me start a new life for myself and my daughters.

What are some of your goals and aspirations?

I came to this country with the intention to make positive contributions. I didn’t want to be a drain on this country. I think it is so important to give back to this great country. I always try to volunteer for community projects. Right now I volunteer with an organization that assists families in crisis in the community. I heard they needed assistance, so I contacted them and signed up to be a teacher. One night a week I teach classes about physical and emotional health. Times are hard for families right now. People are losing their jobs that they have had for years and years. The economic situation makes them depressed, and it causes problems in marriages. So I try to help these families by collaborating with them on positive changes they can make in their lives.

Now that I have my U-Visa and legal work permit, I feel empowered to achieve even more with respect to my professional life. I’m finishing up my GED right now. I’ve passed all of the examinations except for math. So I’m taking a private math class once a week. In one month I have the math examination and then I’ll be done.

Once I get my GED I would like to continue on with my studies. I would like to study nursing. I feel like I can help people who are sad and have hard things in their life by sharing my positive attitude and faith with them. This is a beautiful country, and I feel that my opportunities are now limitless. I am so grateful to be in this country.

Tell us about your daughters.

I am a very proud mom! My oldest daughter is eighteen and just graduated from high school and is going to start college at BYU this fall. She has dreamed of going to BYU since she was a little girl, and now she is realizing that dream. She has a calling at church–she is the ward librarian–and she also volunteers with a program that helps children with intellectual disabilities. She gives them encouragement and is a positive influence with them. She’s always changing her mind, but as of right now she says she wants to study medicine and become a doctor. My youngest daughter is a very positive and happy child. She always has a smile and is laughing. She enjoys sports of all kinds.

I am very proud of my daughters because they have many aspirations and goals in life. They are girls that have passed through very difficult circumstances in their lives, but they are strong. They aren’t intimidated by the problems they have passed through. I am so proud of their faith–nothing makes me happier than when I walk by their bedroom at night and see them studying the scriptures for seminary or praying. I love it! This is the greatest blessing for a mother.

Is there anything else you would like to add?

I want to tell everyone to never give up on their dreams. No matter what your circumstances are, you must always have a goal. Nothing is easy in life. More than anything else, we can’t forget who we are, and where we came from. God is our father and is directing our lives and our circumstances. We must trust Him. Miracles don’t just happen in the scriptures, they can happen in our lives as well. We cannot doubt that God exists–the same God that loved the people in the scriptures is the God that loves all of us now. If we have sufficient faith, no blessing will be withheld from us. Don’t let anything intimidate you, just move forward and try your best. Take advantage of all the opportunities that come before you. Life is only a small moment, and we don’t know how long we will get to be here. We can’t waste any time being unhappy or focusing on the negative. Put your life in God’s hands, and have faith in Him.

At A Glance

Maria de Jesus Cristina

Location: United States

Age: 40

Marital status: Separated, in the process of obtaining a divorce

Children: Two daughters, ages 14 and 18

Occupation: Deli counter cook

Schools Attended: Primary school in Guanajuato, Mexico; in the process of obtaining a GED in the U.S.

Languages Spoken at Home: Spanish and English

Favorite Hymn: “How Great Thou Art”

Interview by Rebecca van Uitert. Portrait by Hailey Hobson.

When Joanne Dehlin first tried Bikram Yoga, she didn’t love it—but she knew she needed it in her life. Now she is a certified instructor and director of her own yoga studio. She sees the physical, emotional, and spiritual benefits of yoga, as well as the sense of community it fosters. “If you are in that place where you can love others and have the light of Christ,” Joanne says, “you are connected. You honor other people.”

How did you initially become interested in yoga?

I’ve always been worried about my weight. For years I tried everything, like running and working out with trainers. Almost eight years ago I did my first half marathon. When it was over I said, “I am never doing that again.” It was awful. My whole body hurt from my ankles to my hips to my knees and my heart. My sister asked me, “So, why do you run?” And I said, “Because I want to look good in shorts and I want to get the runner’s high.” But I never actually got the runner’s high. I worked with trainers and one of my trainers would always tell me that I needed yoga, because I am really inflexible. So I always had that in the back of my mind.

One day my sister-in-law told me about Bikram Yoga, which is hot yoga, and how it’s really good if you are inflexible because the heat helps that. So I thought, “This is it. I know I’m supposed to go do this.” So I go to my first class and it was the biggest joke. I laid on the floor probably half the time just thinking, “I’m going to die. Any minute I’m going to die.” I thought I wouldn’t sweat that much, but I was sweating like crazy and it was just this unbelievable experience. I definitely didn’t love it, but I knew I needed it. So I just stuck to it and did it every day for thirty days. My first teacher really inspired me and encouraged me to keep going.

It’s now the only exercise I do. It’s very complete, in my opinion. It’s good for weight loss and for detoxification of your soul and body. It’s cardiovascular. It gets your heart beating like crazy. It utilizes your own body weight for resistance. An hour and a half is a big chunk of time, but to me it’s just so complete. It’s like getting a facial and going to the chiropractor all at once, and I’m very into one-stop shopping.

What led to you becoming a yoga teacher and the director of your own yoga studio?

As I started getting into yoga more, people started asking, “When you are going to go to teacher training?” So I really started thinking about it. And my husband said, “You would be so great at owning your own studio.” So I decided that when I turned fifty, I was going to go to teacher training and open a studio.

The longer you live, you realize that coincidences really don’t happen; everything happens for a reason. Almost three years ago this summer, I was sitting on a bench in the Bikram Yoga studio in Sandy, Utah, after a yoga class one day, and this woman named Shelli Gardner started talking to me. She’s an amazing woman that owns an international scrapbooking company. We started chatting about yoga, and I told her about my goal to go to teacher training and own my own studio. So she said, “Well, how about if I build the studio and you go do all the training to become a teacher?” This was July of 2010. The world was falling apart economically. I was prepared to go to training in every way—spiritually, physically, mentally—but not financially. We had recently lost a business building custom homes, so I wasn’t ready that way. But she was. And she made up that difference. She is like my fairy godmother. Within two weeks, everything was set. She sponsored me and sent me to training and I was leaving my family to go on this journey.

You have to teach for six months and get 100 classes under your belt and become a certified teacher in order to be an owner of a studio. You can be privately financed, but Shelli couldn’t be my official partner, but rather just a financier, which is what she was willing to do. When I got back from training, I just started teaching a lot and Shelli built this 37,000-square-foot building centered around Bikram Yoga. The building also includes a day spa, a juice bar, and a salon. Everything in this building is dedicated to making you a better person and to help you feel better on the inside and outside. People have said that there is a spirit about this building that is just really unique. Sometimes you don’t want to throw around the word spirit—you can say an energy or a feeling, but that’s because we are all united in trying to create a certain environment that is very encouraging, positive, and uplifting. It’s just been the most amazing experience. People are inspired—they feel good when they are here.

How is Bikram Yoga different from other yoga philosophies?

Bikram Yoga is a form of hatha yoga. The word hatha stands for sun (ha) and moon (tha), so the sun and moon come together. Yoga is considered a union of the body, the spirit, and the mind. In India, where yoga first started, this is their religion. Their scriptures are full of yoga postures and the whole point of yoga postures was so that the priests could get themselves into the lotus pose, which is a very difficult position to sit in for long periods of time. That’s how the priests would meditate and that’s how they would ascend to that higher spiritual level. The postures of yoga would help them get to a point where they could stay in that position for many, many hours while maintaining control of the mind.

A man named Bikram Choudhury created a sequence of twenty-six yoga postures. The sequence is very structured and works through the entire body on a very physical level. It is always the same ninety-minute sequence. It seems like it would get boring after a while, but there is something very powerful about the sequence. We are creatures of habit, and we like to improve upon what we are doing. Eventually you can turn off your brain and just let the teacher’s words move your body. The heat is an important part of the sequence. The room is heated to 105 degrees, with forty percent humidity. The yoga room in my studio is as high-tech as it gets. The floor is heated to your body temperature. The heat has a lot of benefits—it makes you sweat, it makes your heart beat faster, and it makes you more limber. It’s such a great detox for your whole body. There are about 1,800 Bikram Yoga studios around the world.

How does yoga help women to feel more in tune with their bodies?

I think that when you look in the mirror, you face truth. During yoga class, you stand there looking at yourself in the mirror with minimal clothing, dripping with sweat, and for those ninety minutes the facade is gone. If you can look at yourself and be okay with who is looking back at you for an hour and a half—that is huge. For some women, they are looking everywhere but at themselves during class. They look at the ceiling, the floor, the people around them, but they don’t want to look at themselves. More disciplined and experienced students focus on themselves and don’t let anything distract them. They have learned to be okay with who they are. That’s a very difficult thing to do. We are always comparing ourselves to this person and that person. There is a lot of judgment that goes on in our own soul that has nothing to do with what everyone else thinks.

Yoga helps with weight loss, but it also helps with image. One student I have is this adorable girl that e-mailed me recently to thank me for encouraging her during class. She told me that she started coming to yoga to help her self-esteem. This girl is gorgeous. I would have never imagined in a million years that she would have a self-esteem problem. But she told me how much yoga is helping her to feel better about herself. I realized from that experience that you just can’t judge. You don’t know what people are going through.

What do you love most about teaching?

Teaching is an honor and a responsibility. I received a really great compliment from a woman who is also a Bikram Yoga instructor. I consider her a mentor. She said, “I have learned so much from you because you connect with your students, and you are so kind to them that they would do anything for you.” Every teacher has a different personality and a different style. But as a teacher, even if you are trying to correct something, you still encourage your students at the same time.

What I realize now as a teacher is that people have emotional releases while doing yoga. Some of the postures are a little vulnerable and people will sometimes start to cry in class. It’s very healthy to detox on an emotional level as well as a physical level. You never know why people are in that room or what it is that they are dealing with. No matter who they are you have to support them and lift them up. You have to honor who they are. And sometimes those spirits are very vulnerable and protected, and yoga helps them to let that go.

You are clearly a very busy woman. You have two children, you work as a dental hygienist, and you are the director of a yoga studio. How do you balance everything?

You have to surround yourself with great people and you have to know how to delegate. You can’t micromanage. You have to teach them correct principles and let them handle it. My employees know what they would get in trouble for, which is usually not treating someone kindly. It’s all about being surrounded by great people. I also have an incredible husband who is very supportive, and I have amazing children. I feel very blessed. None of this would have happened without my basis in the gospel.

Do you ever meditate when you are doing yoga?

Sure. It’s a time to pray and to think. We always keep the room quiet, both before and after class. I’m sure that many students are saying their own prayers or mantras or whatever helps them to calm down.

For you personally, is practicing yoga a spiritual experience?

Yes, because for me it’s that moment when I finally take a break. Doing the savasana (the dead body pose) is that point where you can hear yourself think. There is no music. There are no cell phones. There are no little kids. Yes, the teacher is talking, but that almost just becomes a rhythm that you get used to. It’s just a time that is truly for you that is so rare and so precious. My best ideas and inspiration happen while I’m practicing yoga. It’s just like you are open and it’s quiet. It’s almost like going to the temple where you can just escape from the world. For me it’s a safe place where I can go. If you go to other gyms or fitness classes, you hear people joking, often about themselves, sometimes demeaning their own bodies. But here, nobody talks. It’s calm and quiet, and it’s all very internal. I love that part of it. It’s very conducive to spirituality—whatever that may be for any individual. It’s not selfish. It makes you a better mom, a better wife, a better everything. I truly believe that. Obviously it’s different than going to the temple, but it’s a quiet time that you carve out for yourself to honor yourself.

Yoga is a physical practice, but it has emotional, spiritual, and mental side effects. It is personal for people. Nothing spiritual is rammed down your throat. There is nothing overtly religious about it. You could have any religion and any belief system and be accepted in that room, which is so great to be in Utah and to bring people together of all different religions in a place where they can love and support each other.

With yoga, there is a strong sense of community. People really encourage each other here. There is no ego. You would think there would be a lot of intimidation, but there is no ego in the hot room. You find that out very quickly as you melt away and you have makeup all over your face. You just find yourself. And everybody respects everybody else because it is so hard. There is just a mutual respect that happens there.

At the end of each class, the instructor says “Namaste,” and the students repeat back, “Namaste,” which means: “I honor the place in you in which the entire universe dwells—a place of light, a place of love, a place of truth and integrity. When you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, together, we are one.”

Our spirits are connected. If you are in that place where you can love others and have the light of Christ, you are connected. You honor other people. It doesn’t matter how dark another person may be or how deep you have to go to find that light in them. I think that’s the gospel of Christ, without all the rules, without Sunday school or the three-hour block. The gospel is all about how you connect with people and how you love them. That’s what the Lord is going to ask us about one day, and for me, yoga is an avenue to do that in a very unique setting.

At A Glance

Joanne Dehlin

Location: Draper, UT

Age: 46

Marital status: Married 23 years

Children: Two – 20 year old boy and 17 year old girl

Occupation: Dental hygienist for 23 years, Yoga Teacher for 2.5 years

Schools Attended: BYU, U of U, Graduate of Weber State University-dental hygiene

Favorite Hymn: “Because I Have Been Given Much”

On The Web: www.bikramyogabrickcanvas.com

Interview by Julie Rodriguez. Photos used with permission.

Having suffered religious persecution and losing a parent at a young age, Seraphine Kapsandoy Jones has had her fair share of trials. But the 35-year-old native of Kenya says she doesn’t worry about things she can’t control. She focuses on her faith, goals, and opportunities to serve. Now, the doctoral student at the University of Utah helps inspire, empower, and motivate women to soar high.

You and your family were pioneers of the church in Kenya. Tell me about your family’s conversion.

I was born and raised in Nairobi, Kenya. My dad did his undergraduate and graduate studies in New Mexico, and when he returned to Kenya, he was a Mormon. I was seven and I didn’t know who Mormons were; we were raised Catholic. My mom was very religious, so converting was not an easy thing for her, but she saw how much the church changed my dad and that had a big impact on her decision to be baptized.

I got baptized when I was eight, in a pond with running water. It felt good. It felt cleansing. My elder sisters, Joyce and Sylvia, and my younger brother and sister, Samuel and Sariah, also joined the church. Since the church wasn’t registered in Kenya, we had church at home. We’d wake up and go to the living room. My dad administered the sacrament and one of us would give a talk. Those were our Sundays. It was fun.

Seraphine and her mother

Pretty soon, we started to have other people join. My dad tracked down other members of the church in the area. We formed a small branch and met at a house, and eventually the church got registered.

Was there much resistance to the church?

Other churches didn’t know much about Mormons. They did a good job of painting us as devil worshippers. In fact, we even made the front page of the national paper with the headline “Mormons: Devil Worshippers.”

I was the only Mormon in my all-girl’s Catholic high school and remember the vice principal calling me into her office and asking me what religion I was. I brought her an Ensign and Book of Mormon, and then all this drama started to brew because the church had just been registered and it was new and people had concerns. It was ridiculous the things they said about us. But Heavenly Father had prepared a way to deal with all the ridicule.

You told me your father passed away when you were young. How old were you?

I was 14, in the eighth grade. He was traveling to our farm in Kitale and a semi-truck hit his SUV.

Do you remember hearing the news?

Oh, yes, it’s burned in my mind. It was a Monday. I was at school. I saw my sisters coming to get me—and I thought that was strange, because my sisters never came to get me. There were all these cars in front of our house and in the back of my mind I knew what it was but I didn’t want to know. My mom was sitting on her bed with some women and she told me we lost a member of our family. I cooked up an idea of an aunt or uncle—it couldn’t be my dad. I will never forget that. Those were rough times.

What do you remember most about your father?

The biggest gift we got from my dad wasn’t the material possessions, it was the gospel. That’s been the foundation of everything. It keeps me propelling forward.

How did your father’s death affect your faith?

It changed me. I questioned a lot. And I had a lot of anger. At that age, nothing makes sense. It was only later in life that I began to understand.

My dad’s first goal was to get the church registered and his second goal was to get his family to the temple. By the time he died, the church was registered, but we hadn’t gone to the temple yet. We started saving money to make the trip to the Johannesburg South Africa Temple. We fasted and prayed and, though it seemed so impossible, we felt peace that everything would work out. Soon after, there was a Relief Society group in the U.S. that put money together to help us go to the temple. It was a miracle and answer to our prayers. Our family got sealed, and I think that’s when my faith really started to grow.

What kind of things did you learn from your mom growing up?

My mom taught us from an early age how to save our money. After my dad passed away, my mom had to occasionally travel up country to the farm to work and she’d give us 200 shillings while she was gone. I learned to stretch a shilling; she’d come back and I’d have change left.

When I came to the States, I read everything I could to learn about how to be financially savvy. My biggest motivating factor for being financially savvy was that I didn’t want to see my family suffer.

After high school, you went away to study nursing at Mississippi University for Women. What was that like?

The church isn’t very big in Columbus, Mississippi. They had only one ward, but it was comfortable and made me feel like I was back home. The church was the one thing that gave me comfort and peace. It’s interesting to see that Heavenly Father prepares you for everything. People will disappoint, that’s a guarantee, but the gospel will never disappoint. If you have that foundation of faith, you have something to fall back on to give you strength.

Tell me about your decision to come to Utah.

I moved to be with my sister and also pursue graduate studies at the University of Utah. Moving to Utah was hard. I felt like I was in a blender, and I still experience that. It was not only the gospel culture, it was the fact that I was coming from Africa to Utah—a very different culture. At first, this made dating pretty interesting. I’m pretty fiery sometimes—well, I don’t know whether to call it fiery or headstrong, but I know what I want and I don’t compromise on fundamentals. Being able to find someone I could relate to was hard. I prayed about it a lot. And I came to the conclusion that if it wasn’t meant to be, that I would be okay. But I wanted my life to count for something. I didn’t want to waste my life. So, I focused on the things I could control and my abilities. I asked myself, “How far can I soar?” They say the sky is the limit, and we are the only ones who put the limits on ourselves, so we need to test the boundaries.

I’m a problem solver. I went back to my patriarchal blessing a lot when things became blurry and confusing. It’s easy to make bad choices and you really have to have something to go back on to ground you.

Other than your patriarchal blessing, how did you survive those blurry or confusing moments?

Good friends. You’ve got to find those key friends you can stick with. Sometimes you’re not seeing straight and you need a different perspective.

And I prayed. I spent a lot of time with Heavenly Father. A lot of nights I would take personal inventory and do soul searching. In my prayers, I said, “You know what’s needed and you know the timing. So I leave this up to you.”

I also tried to live outside of myself because there’s so many things that need to be done and if you focus on those things, you get so much more out of life. Even meeting Matt, my husband, I wasn’t focused too much on getting married. I was focused on other things like my work and school and involvement in community. When he came along, I wasn’t even paying attention.

You’re very involved in the community. What all do you do?

I serve on the board of directors of Women’s World Health Initiative, a nonprofit dedicated to healthcare for women in Senegal. I’m in my last year of my PhD program. I also work at Intermountain Healthcare. I serve in Young Women’s in my ward. And do a lot of other projects on the side. Also, I’ve been married for more than two years.

What would your dream job be?

My dream is to start something that gives women [in Kenya] opportunity and choice and resources. When you teach a woman, you teach a family and a nation.

What do you wish more people knew about life in Kenya?

Life in Kenya is fun and very dynamic. The food is also fabulous.

Do you have a favorite African meal?

Sukuma wiki (kale), and pilau and chapati.

If you could give one piece of advice for women, what would it be?

Be strong. Know yourself. Know your value. Know that Heavenly Father is behind you. Nurture your value and never sell yourself short.

At A Glance

Seraphine Kapsandoy Jones

Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Age: 35

Marital status: Married

Occupation: Cardiovascular Clinical Programs Manager at Intermountain Healthcare

Schools Attended: Mississippi University for Women; University of Utah

Languages Spoken at Home: English and Swahili

Favorite Hymn: “Oh My Father”

Interview by Katherine Peterson. Photos used with permission.

…I discovered the power of tenderness, and what it means to have unconditional love and attachment as a mother. For me it comes down to letting someone know that they are more important than the rules, or the spilled milk, or what the other moms at the park think. More important than being on time, or than a broken dish.

My son, Ian, was particularly violent as a little boy. He’s always struggled with deeply negative feelings, and he doesn’t know what to do with them. When he hit or pushed someone, the socially correct thing for me was to make him apologize and give him a stern correction, but he was just getting worse and I found out that other parents were avoiding us. I offered some really desperate prayers about how to help him.

The clear answer I got was the exact opposite of social convention. It was completely embarrassing to me, and often anger-provoking in other mothers; but if Ian did something mean and physically hurtful, I would immediately gather him up in my arms and love him. That had to be my response, and it had to be immediate, that was key.

In fact, I’m going to repeat it: I had to immediately offer him all of my affection and attention instead of frustration and reprimand. Unfortunately, if someone was crying and hurt from the stick my son hit them with, and the other kid’s mom saw me act as if my child was the wounded one in need of comfort, we didn’t win a lot of social points.

Another turning point for me was a family prayer Ian gave. It was the most tender, pleading, sincere prayer I’ve ever heard from a child that age. He didn’t seem 3 or 4 years old; he seemed ageless, his spirit itself speaking purely. The scriptures tell us that “little children do have words given unto them many times, which confound the wise and the learned” (Alma 32:23) and that when Christ visited the Nephites, “he did loose [their children's] tongues, and they did speak unto their fathers great and marvelous things” (3 Nephi 26:14). That was the experience my husband and I had during this prayer as we heard our little boy pour his true, gentle heart out.

I couldn’t ignore the answer I had been given. I knew my son’s feelings were more important than his behavior, and that I could only change what he felt from me and not how he acted. He wasn’t hitting because he didn’t understand it was wrong; he was already trying so incredibly hard not to be ‘bad’. I had been focused on being so absolutely consistent in my discipline, he just felt like there was no loophole, no mercy, that the more he hit the less he deserved love. When he lost control, he instantly knew he had done wrong and was already feeling guilt and self-loathing in his little heart. He was waiting for me to show whether or not I, his mother, thought more of him than that, instead of just a lecture and public shame.

I began to understand that his little heart was amazingly tender and open to love, that the knowledge that he was more important than his mistakes would work miracles. Setting aside anger and frustration and learning to replace it with love and affection right when someone seems least deserving is beyond hard. But it is possible, and powerful. I can testify of that.

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You started losing your sight at a young age. What was that transition like for you?

It started when I was about eleven. It’s a genetic disease, this really rare thing that nobody else in my family has, but both my parents were carriers and it just showed up in me.

It turns out I’m fairly resilient, which is good. I think the hardest years were in my late teens and my early twenties. It was gradual, and I lost a lot of vision on my mission. I served a mission in Brazil [Belo Horizante, now split up into several other missions] and I needed to use this magnifying device so that I could read. That was becoming increasingly difficult; I couldn’t read the magnification enough and I was struggling. So I thought maybe I wasn’t working hard enough, so if I could just push through it…I could figure it out.

I got to Brazil and my machine got lost on my way down—with all the rest of my luggage—and finally, maybe six or eight weeks later, I found out it was broken. And I really had to spend the rest of my mission like that, not using my eyes! I had to start learning to use books on tape. My companion would help me out. Really having to learn those alternative skills, you know, listening to the Book of Mormon on tape and using readers, having people read to me….It was hard at the time, but it’s one of those lessons you look back at later in life and you understand why it happened and why that was important. It was a blessing in disguise.

How so? What do you feel you learned?

Well, I had to be pushed. You know, when you’re pushed off into the deep end of the pool and understand that you can actually swim? I’d been hanging on to the lenses and the little vision that I had, and it wasn’t working. I couldn’t keep up with my classes; it would take me like 30 minutes to read one page. I had to be pushed off into the swimming pool, and that gave me that push to know I could stay afloat. Many years after that I taught myself Braille. My first child was born when I was 26 and I didn’t know how to read to him, so I taught myself Braille. And then I had to learn how to travel, and all these other skills I had to learn to be successful. That stuff doesn’t happen overnight; those things take time.

I learned that I could tread water after that. I knew that I could really become proficient. And other skills, like just adapting to technology, and how to use computers, and just all these things you have to learn to be as independent as you can be.

Was there a specific aspect of the gospel that helped drive or encourage you during that time?

One is eternal perspective. That’s always a hard thing to come back to. I get pulled into the issues of the moment. I think getting pulled back onto why we’re here, lessons to learn, why sometimes we face the things we face, how we should deal with people. That’s my ongoing issue, is to get to that eternal perspective.

I think also the gospel is one of optimism; it is what it’s all about. It is the message of the Atonement, it is the message of the Restoration, it is the message of all the scriptures. I think we can get caught up in trials and tribulations and those things exist, they are real, but I also think it’s important to focus on the optimism and sharing in the gospel.

After your mission you went back to school at BYU. How did you start your career in advocacy and politics?

I started working on a volunteer basis in a non-profit and the president of the organization, the National Federation of the Blind, asked me to come do governmental affairs in Washington DC. So my husband and I went back and decided to just try it out. And from there I was an appointee into the Bush administration, then [Maryland] Governor Ehrlich asked me to come work for him and I ran for lieutenant governor on his ticket. And I came to Utah to work for Governor Huntsman and now Governor Herbert.

The governor just asked me to move to the Office of Management and Budget. I’m basically the Chief Operating Officer for the state and I’m over the budget. The legislative session is so crazy because you have to get the whole budget through and all that crazy stuff.

I don’t think it was so much a single organization I worked for that launched my career, but more some people along the way that believed in me; they had higher expectations for me than I had for myself. I had some very neat mentors that were really kind of hard: they didn’t let anything pass and had very high expectations about performance and results, and there were no excuses. Governor Ehrlich in Maryland took a big chance on me, running as his lieutenant governor candidate—a blind, Mormon young woman! Governor Herbert asking me on as his budget director! There are a lot of people giving me great opportunities along the way and I think that’s what has made the biggest difference for me. And hopefully we can do that as women for each other, right?

So you feel a need to reciprocate that?

Yes. There are so many women who have been good to me and I just think we need to be that for each other—to not be judgmental, to be supportive, to understand we each have our own path in this life and unique contributions. We’re not all going to be cookie-cutters, and I don’t think we’re supposed to be cookie-cutters in this life. And we need to support each other in our own unique ways. There are lots of ways for a woman to be a woman.

In a sense that’s part of the Relief Society calling, to uplift and support each other.

It should be, absolutely. To support, uplift….I hope I’m mindful of it. I don’t know that there’s anything I do deliberately, but there are women I work with and I hope that I’m mindful of the opportunities I was given and support them in being successful. By giving them feedback, having high expectations, and also being mindful that they’re maybe going to do things differently than I do, and to be okay with that. To understand they have lives outside of work, and to support them in those other roles and responsibilities, and to encourage that. You know, work is just one part of who we are. When you’re in the workplace it seems like a big deal, but we have all these other things outside of work that we have to respect and promote, and hopefully encourage people. So that’s important to me, letting people I work with also achieve that.

What is it you enjoy about your work? What’s your motivation?

I’ve been thinking about that! Politics is a stressful job! You know, being in the political world, it’s hard because there are a lot of strong-willed people with lots of opinions. But I think it’s just that I like the challenge, and it’s important to me to make a contribution—a meaningful contribution—to my family and to the community. You have one life. There are only so many minutes, so many hours, so many days to actually achieve things. I don’t know, I sometimes feel this urgent fear or strong drive to make a difference as much as you can and with all the time that you have.

I know exactly what you’re talking about, I’ve often felt that myself, the need to “do something about it.”

It’s hard. There are a lot of different parts to life. The issue as Mormon women is you want to make a difference at home and yet we’re part of a broader society that has challenges too. I feel that we have an obligation in both of these.

What wou­ld you say defines and drives you, spiritually, in your work and in life in general?

That’s a tricky question, but I’d guess I’m a person of contradiction….It’s continual growth, that’s a big driver for me. Although sometimes that becomes too much and I can put too many things on my list, too many things to do, and it becomes overwhelming. And on the other hand, I have this desire for peace and contentment.

So it’s an ongoing challenge and a conflict—to grow, to want more, to want to be more, and also to be content with where you are, and who you are, and with what you have. I think the ongoing thing is to find the balance between the two.

How do you find the balance between, as you said earlier, family and the broader society?

It’s a challenge. What I’ve come to understand is, I guess, two things. One, some things you have to let go. My house isn’t perfect! I know I’ve got a lot of work to do on my house, but we prioritize, right? So there are just some things I’m willing to let go of because other things are more important. And that’s not right or wrong for everyone. Everyone has to make her own personal decision. But I have had to let some things go, and that’s by design.

I think the other thing is, there’s a time and a season. I don’t think you find balance every day. I do think you can find balance over a week, or a month, or over a year. I’ll be very busy for three weeks, and those three weeks will be insane, but I really protect my time with my family—that takes highest priority over everything else. So it’s really having to make priorities. Clear, deliberate priorities, what I’ll spend my time on what I won’t spend my time on. And then it’s also just a great husband and two great kids. That’s a great part of what my life is; what motivates a lot of what I do is making sure my kids are okay.

Is your family supportive of your work?

Yes, they are. We’re a good team! Just today my son and I went for a five-mile walk to kind of talk through a paper he’s writing at school. We talk politics and we talk ideas.  My husband’s super-supportive, so it’s a team effort around here. It’s a good team! It has to be a team effort, and then you just have to let some things go, and that way you can kind of pull it off— but never perfectly!

Do you aspire to running for office again at some point?

Politics is harsh. It’s a full contact sport! I would need a real specific reason, that there was just a vacuum of qualified candidates that didn’t share my view. If that was the case I would certainly consider it, but I don’t want to run just for the sake of running. I’d have to have a specific reason. There should be a purpose for running for office, not just “running for office,” and I would have to have that clearly defined for me to seriously consider it.

At A Glance

Kristen Cox

Location: Sandy, UT

Age: 43

Marital status: Married

Children: Two boys (8 and 17)

Occupation: Executive Director of the Utah Governor’s Office of Management and Budget

Schools Attended: Brigham Young University

Languages Spoken at Home: English

Interview by Lydia Defranchi. Photos used with permission.

Betty Stevenson grew up in an African-American community near San Francisco. After spiraling through abusive relationships, drug dealing and jail, she joined the Church. Betty served for many years as the Relief Society president of the newly formed Oakland Ninth Branch, composed of some of Oakland’s poorest neighborhoods, and she is the founder of an organization that hosts free football camps. In addition, Betty is raising her three great-grandchildren.

Tell me about your life before you joined the Church.

I grew up in West Pittsburg, or Bay Point as it’s called now, in northern California. Poor people lived on one side of the freeway and white rich people lived on the other side, but they built a school where they brought all of us together. I think it was one of the first ones in this area to integrate. I would play with this little white girl at her house. Her parents really didn’t like having me around, but she was feisty. She would say, “You coming home with me.” If I ate off something at her house, they would throw it away. But for me to even be there was an amazing feat.

I grew up as the youngest of three children. My mother had married a very abusive, drunk man who became my stepfather and so we were put second. I feel like we raised my mother instead of it being the other way around.

I learned a lot of stuff in the neighborhood, and it wasn’t all good. I turned into a product of the system I lived in. There was no adult supervision. Taking the Lord’s name in vain was a way of conversation. Drugs were a way of life. I got into an abusive relationship for a while. In that darkness, there’s this haze that you’re not even aware of until you start receiving light. The thing that kept me human was my love for little kids and old people and people who were disabled. I was very protective of my own children.

Betty at age 15

I ended up in jail. I was on probation for two years and parole for almost seven. I moved myself and my two kids from Bay Point to the flatlands of Oakland to get away from drugs. I have to laugh now because that was the city where the drugs were coming from, but when I moved, I didn’t know anyone there, so I just didn’t hook up. The Lord had set me up. I was getting in position for the missionaries to come.

How did you meet the missionaries?

Missionaries were tracting in Oakland in February of 1981 when they knocked on my door. It was just seventeen days since I’d gotten off parole. The first thing that jumped into my mind was that they were parole officers. So I kind of peeked out the door and I thought, “No they must be Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I don’t want to hear from them neither.” So I went back down the hallway into the bathroom and was just standing there when I heard a thought that said to my mind, “You’ve been praying for a long time. Why don’t you go open the door and see what they want?” So I let them in.

Did you decide pretty quickly to be baptized?

No! I’m amazed more than anyone that I would be involved in this community. I didn’t want to have anything to do with the Church. I knew nothing nice about Mormons. The reputation of the Church among black people keeps a lot of people from listening. When I actually listened to the missionaries, at first I didn’t believe any of it. It thought, “Oooo! These people ought to be ashamed of themselves going around telling people that.”

I was sitting at home and the copy of the Book of Mormon the missionaries had brought me was on the coffee table. I picked it up and started to read. It was just amazing. It was as if the words were almost shimmering in my mind. When I read, “I Nephi, having been born of goodly parents,” the tears started to flow, and I realized that I wasn’t being a goodly parent. I didn’t feel like I had goodly parents.

I had always known in my heart that God was almighty. I knew that even in my darkest hours. All my life I believed in God, but I just didn’t believe that He loved a black girl like me. Now, I was just amazed by the Book of Mormon. I had to try to figure out, do I believe it? Is it true? Did it happen?

I think I must have worn out a couple of sets of missionaries. When they told me to investigate, that’s exactly what I did. My brother and sister were totally against my joining, and I was too, almost right up until I went down into the water.

My eleven-year-old daughter got baptized before I did. I’d taught my kids, if you really want to do something, then you go do it. And that’s what she did: she got baptized. I asked her, “Why you want to join this church?”

She said, “Because I listened to the missionaries and what they said made sense.”

Eleven years old and she told me that. Eleven years old going on 42! A week later I got baptized.

What challenges came to you with joining the Church?

Coming into the Church was like walking into a bright light that hurts your eyes. In the community I was coming out of, everyone wanted to know, “What is it? You’ve got this glow. Why are you so happy?” But I really wasn’t happy yet. It’s a horrible feeling to be trying to make that change. I had to wait for years to feel the joy because all I was doing was losing, that’s how I felt. That was a scarier journey than being out there in the world.

I tell people I had to give up my man, my money, and my dope when I joined the Church.  Not in that order! The money was the hardest thing in the world to give up. When you’re out there dealing, there’s a lot of money. Money, money, money! The devil don’t have no recession. I could do anything I wanted, I could buy anything, I could go anywhere, and take my children places.

But the Lord let me know by the power of the Holy Spirit that while it was all His, dealing drugs wasn’t the way to make it acceptable to Him. So I made a promise I would never deal again. I went from having lots of money to having nothing. I had to get welfare and food stamps. I was collecting cans just to have enough to buy a loaf of bread. This was beneath my dignity. I did wrong in the first place to keep from going this low. It was overwhelming to go from having to having not, but I did it.

When I joined the Church, I was still smoking, and I was addicted to heroin. I used some other drugs, too—methamphetamines, different kinds of pills. I gave up the cigarettes. I gave up the drugs. No one knew I was kicking dope. I didn’t look like it. I didn’t act like it. The strength that had to come from God to let go of everything I had loved and had held to–well, I just feel really blessed I could give it all up.

It was a lonely time. I had given up all the people I used to associate with. Once I joined the Church, my old friends thought I had lost my mind. I would bring out that Book of Mormon and everybody would get up and leave. I can remember standing in the doorway watching them walk away and thinking, “Man, this book is better than having a gun.”

At first, I really didn’t have any friends in the Church either because I was very vocal. I loved fast and testimony meeting. They would walk up and down the aisle with the microphone, and as soon as they got to me, I grabbed it. I let people know I was aware of a spirit from the members—not the Holy Spirit—that didn’t want me there. It was right there on their faces. I said, “If I was the devil, where would I be? Right up here with the Saints. This is where sinners come. This is where I’m supposed to be.” I was not going to take any criticism.

I was threatening folks and talking crazy. Women would go behind my back and criticize me to the bishop. The bishop would call me into his office and say, “Now, Betty, you cannot go around and threaten the sisters.”

One sister, bless her heart and may she rest in peace, would call me up after church, and she would say, “You know, Betty, you said so and so, but I know what you meant.” And I was so grateful that someone cared enough to tell me instead of going behind my back and reporting me.

And my vocabulary. Girl, I lost three-quarters of my vocabulary when I joined the Church! I would be talking to the bishop and every other word I’d be taking the Lord’s name in vain, because this is the language of where I came from. And every time I would do that he would cringe like I had stabbed him in the heart. I came home and prayed, “Lord please help me because I don’t want to kill nobody.” I had to get a dictionary!

Was it difficult to be one of the few black members of the Church in your area at the time?

When I started attending church, I became very militant. I wanted to know, “Where are the black people?” I knew they had to have some. So I went looking in Church history for black Saints, and I found them. Elijah Abel was the first black man that Joseph Smith ordained to the priesthood. His posterity held offices in the Church. Hark Lay and Green Flake drove the first wagon into the Salt Lake Valley, and they were actually the first two on the ground. Then they turned that wagon around and went back and picked up more Saints. Jane Manning James. The stories of these black Saints are beginning to surface.

What were your first callings?

Soon after I joined, instead of Sunday School, they had us go to a leadership meeting. I learned a few things and I was beginning to see that I had leadership abilities. Eventually I got called to teach the Social Relations class in Relief Society. I think I was guided to teach that class so I could learn how to get along with people.

When I joined the Church, I was in Oakland Fourth Ward. Then they moved things around and we were in another ward with another bishop. I thought, “Oh no. Now I got to break another one in.” We were in a ward with the very rich people who lived up on the hill. I was amazed to see how some of these people lived. Their wealth! The homes they lived in! Their neighborhoods! Their lawns! I was like, “Lord, where are these blessings? Did I miss the boat?”

The Church changed you, but did you also see your service and membership in the Church change your wards and branches?

Oh, yes. They began to realize that a lot of them were in this little bubble and in order to serve like you’re supposed to, especially in Relief Society, you have to leave the bubble.

One day it was raining, and these two ladies from up on the hill came down to visit teach me. I told them, “You know what this must be, for two rich white women to come down in the rain to visit me? It’s a miracle.”

They just laughed. “Yes.”

At first people would only go places if I went with them. I understand it. It’s just fear. These days I will go someplace and think, “Lord, I got to hurry and get out of here.”

And in my mind, I hear, “You used to be all over those streets, in the dark, delivering drugs, and you didn’t even think about it then.”

So I say, “OK, if you’re gonna bring that up, I guess I’ll go do what I need to do,” and I go take food to the sisters or encourage them or whatever.

I’d been a member a year or two when the Oakland Ninth Branch was formed and I was called as Relief Society president. In that calling, I learned a lot of stuff about getting along with people and why the Relief Society was organized and what it meant to women to learn to finally support and love one another. That was an amazing time, to build that little branch.

It was an inner-city branch in Oakland, right?

It was a neighborhood group, really. There were converts coming out of the flatlands of Oakland, and I knew the language that they spoke. As Relief Society president, I couldn’t get anyone to go down into that area to visit teach or to take a meal, nothing. So I was doing it all, me and my kids.

When the first branch president got released, everybody got released but me. So I was Relief Society president for the second branch president. When he was released, I was still Relief Society president for the third branch president. When he was released, I got called again to be Relief Society president. I told them, “I need to be released, or I’m going to lose my mind.” So they released me from that and called me to be the president of the Young Women’s. “Wait!” I said, “These people don’t release nobody. They recycle you.” And that’s the truth! So I served in that capacity for a while.

Now that little branch is a ward, the Oakland Ninth Ward.

Eventually I got called to represent the Ninth Branch in the international community in Oakland, so I had the opportunity to be exposed to Vietnamese, Chinese, Hmong. I also work with the Genesis Group.

What’s the Genesis Group?

The First Presidency saw that black members felt alienated, so they started the Genesis Group, which is black saints gathering together to serve. Our mission is the same as the Church’s mission. We started as a little group and now Genesis organizations are all over. Here in Oakland, we do a Martin Luther King Day program every year at the Interstake Center by the temple. For several years now, we’ve also put on a play about early African-American Saints.

The love in the community that has arisen from that group is amazing. The work that we do, can’t anybody else do it but us.

I did some speaking in those early years when I was a new member. I spoke at BYU Women’s Conference and was in a book, Something Extraordinary. PBS did a special on the Mormons and interviewed me. It’s amazing to me to listen to myself back then, saying things that I really didn’t know yet! I’d read that if I opened my mouth, the Lord would speak for me. And that’s what I did.

Becoming Mormon really transformed your life.

Becoming a Latter-day Saint. I don’t like “Mormon.” The black community had to get rid of the word “nigger.” Now it’s the n-word. Black people took the n-word and made it their own. They used it in good ways, bad ways, ugly ways. They started calling each other that. About a year or two ago I heard some kids talking, saying, “Nigger you this and Nigger you that.” I went over to say something, expecting them to be black, and it was some Tongans and some white kids calling each other “Nigger.” I shook my head and thought, “We took that word and made it legitimate.”

The Latter-day Saints have done the same thing with the Mormon word. People gave that nickname to us so people wouldn’t believe we were Christians. We took it and ran with it. And now we got to correct it. We got to get rid of the M-word. I heard one of the General Authorities tell us, last year or the year before, “Quit doing it!”

It has to be corrected. I tell people, “You can call yourself anything you want to, you can teach your kids to call themselves whatever, but I’m teaching mine about Jesus Christ. If you want to be my friend, don’t call me no Mormon. I don’t answer to that. I testify of the Book of Mormon, but I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” If they don’t have time to listen to the whole name, then, I shake the dust off my feet!

Thank you for that correction and the forceful witness!

Tell me about where you are and what you’re doing now.

I’m in Bay Point. I never would have dreamed I’d be back here. I didn’t think I’d ever leave the Ninth Branch, for one thing. But two years ago I found myself right back out here in Bay Point looking at the places I used to go and used to live.

Somebody told me the Lord knew I needed two angels to go through this life with me, and my son and daughter have been that, right by my side. When my granddaughter got killed in a car wreck in 2007, she left three great-grandbabies. My son and I took responsibility for them. We’ve been raising them ever since.

I formed an organization, Hope PC: Help Open Possibility, Encourage Positive Change. Through that organization, my son and I have put on free football camps for coming up on thirteen years. Three of my son’s players who were on his team when they were little guys are playing professional football now. One of their mothers said that my son was the first person to put a football in her son’s hands.

I’m busy as a bee, visit teaching and taking people to pay their bills and stuff. Relief Society presidents call me; they got me on their speed dial. I don’t get paid for what I do. I have to pay to get gas to go help somebody. Building up the kingdom of God on this earth is the reason why I’m still here.

At A Glance

Betty J. Stevenson

Location: Bay Point, California

Age: 70

Marital status: Single

Children: 2 children, Rodney Parker 52, Shante Randles 44

Occupation: formerly a foster mother, in charge of battered women’s office in Richmond, California, and speaker about domestic violence; now raising three great-grandsons

Baptism: July 5, 1981

Schools Attended: Intermediate and high school in Bay Point, GED, Dean’s list 2 semesters Merritt College, certificates in early childhood development and community social services

Languages Spoken at Home: English and Trash

Favorite Hymn: “I Believe in Christ”

Interview by Annette Pimentel. Photos used with permission.

Although a devoted mother to four children, Patty has seen each of her children walk away from the Church. The death of one of her adult sons, Kevin, left her desperate for the healing balm of the Savior. She’s found solace in her role as a temple worker and in immersing herself in the scriptures.

Although my upbringing prepared me in many ways to be a wife and mother, there was nothing like real hands-on experience. Being a wife and a mother to four young children was more challenging than I’d ever expected. It was made up of exhausting days and sleepless nights, cold food and a dirty house. I’ve wondered: if I was given the chance, would I do something else with my life? I can honestly say no. I am who I am because of my life’s experiences, so I wouldn’t change a thing. I loved and taught my children about God, and for the first twelve years, I took them to church alone.

As their mother, I have anguished as each one has chosen to leave behind the teachings of Jesus Christ and journey into the world in search of their own truth, love, and happiness. But I know the Lord is mindful of each of them. He loves them even more than I do, and He is watching and waiting for them to return. When that day comes, I know He will be there to save them, heal them, and set them free.

In the spring of 2008, I was called to be a temple worker. I was told in my Patriarchal Blessing that I would be called to serve in the house of the Lord someday, and I was excited and humbled by the opportunity to serve in God’s House. It was an exciting time, a time of learning and of understanding spiritual truths. I believe my service in the house of the Lord helped to prepare and strengthen me for the intense trials that would come a few short months later.

Your son Kevin has been a big part of your life. Can you talk about your experiences with him?

Kevin was my joy. He was born with red hair and a fair complexion. He had the biggest blue eyes and the longest red eyelashes that naturally curled up to touch the top of his eyebrows. I’m sure that his red hair had something to do with his rascally personality. He served in the Air Force for a short time. On completion of his military service, he met and married his wife. They were a cute couple with what seemed to be bright future. Shortly after they married, Kevin was injured and never healed. Surgery was required in which three vertebrae were fused together. He was never the same. His pain was unbearable, and his anger, lack of ambition, and depression took its toll on his marriage.

Just one week after his daughter was born, his wife left and took their little girl with her. Kevin was devastated. During the next year, I watched him turn his back on the Lord. He blamed God for everything wrong in his life. I tried to encourage him, but he wouldn’t hear me. He swore to never set foot in another church as long as he lived. I was devastated. I prayed for him constantly. I visited often, but I knew that it was his choice to decide the course of his life. He went back to his old ways—smoking, drinking alcohol, and fornication. I continued to pray for the Lord to reach out to him, to comfort him, strengthen him, and to help him see the course he was on and where it would ultimately lead. For six months, he told me how sick he was of being alive, how much he hated living on this wicked planet, and how much he just wanted to go home. That was such a hard thing for me to hear. I hoped and prayed I wouldn’t receive word that he’d decided to end his life.

Then one evening he called. I went into a quiet room and listened to him pour out his heart. The words to say came into my mind and out of my mouth. It was so powerful and I knew they were directed from the Spirit – I asked Kevin if he knew I loved him.

He said, “Yes, I know you love me.”

I told him that I also knew that his Father in Heaven loved him even more than I loved him. He was quiet, so I continued.

I said, “You know what? Heavenly Father knows the real Kevin, and I know the real Kevin, and even you know the real Kevin. The Lord hasn’t given up on you, I haven’t given up on you, and I hope you haven’t given up on you.”

He started to cry and said he was really glad he’d called. I felt so much comfort and peace from the Lord, and I knew He had heard my prayer, inspired my words, and touched Kevin’s troubled heart. A few weeks later, Kevin asked if he could come home to live with us. We said he could, but that he’d have to follow the house rules. He said he understood and willingly turned back to the Lord and walked away from the world. I still believe that he came home that day to prepare for his journey to his Heavenly Home. He came to church with us those few Sundays. I remember the only music he would listen to was Jericho Road. At our family Thanksgiving Feast, he made peace with family members he’d struggled with for years, and for a time, there was harmony.

Kevin was home with us for a brief three weeks before he suddenly passed away. He said to his father the night he passed, “This better not be a bunch of bunk.”

On the morning of December 13, 2008, Kevin slipped peacefully to the other side. We were assured that there was no pain and no struggle. That was a great comfort to us. I still remember going in to check on him. When I entered his room I found him laying very still, face down with no covers on. I called out to him, but he didn’t respond; as I walked closer, I noticed that he wasn’t breathing. I don’t know how, but I knew he was gone. I went over to him, knelt beside the side of the bed, gently touched his back and whispered as tears ran down my cheeks, “Oh Kevin, it’s okay. You’re with Jesus now, and you’re not hurting anymore.” Then I called out to my husband. Before calling 911, we knelt together in prayer and plead with the Lord for His comfort, strength, and peace.

How were you able to deal with Kevin’s passing?

We were all in shock. It didn’t seem real. Like a bad dream that we were going to wake up from any moment and find him standing there and everything would be fine. We did wake up to find, in a sense, that everything was okay. We woke to a new understanding and appreciation for the power of the Atonement and the Resurrection. We woke to the promised peace that “passeth all understanding.”

The days after the funeral were followed by tears, happy memories, and individual dreams we had of Kevin that added to our comfort and peace. One of the sweetest memories that I still cling to happened right after Kevin had moved back home. We had gathered to read scriptures and pray as a family. Kevin quietly put his right arm around my neck and pulled me close. Then he quietly whispered in my ear, “Mom – I just want you to know that you loved me back into submission to the Lord.” That is such a treasure to me. The Lord knew that those words would be a great comfort to me in the weeks and months and years that followed his death.

Remembering the happy times is a healing balm. I can remember how his chubby fingers felt when I held his little boy hand. I remember his bright eyes, his freckles, his laugh, his love. Most of all, I remember our last embrace and look forward to the embrace we are sure to share again. I’m so glad I was the one that found him that morning. I was there when he came into this world, and how appropriate it was that I be there when he left.

What were the events leading up to Kevin receiving his endowments?

Within a week of Kevin’s passing, I talked with my husband about going to the temple in a year so Kevin could receive his endowment. My motherly concerns for Kevin’s salvation were confirmed when I had an experience I will never forget. A few days before Christmas I was out doing last minute shopping when I realized I needed a new calendar for the coming year. I stopped at a stand and began looking at the covers. I noticed a daily flip calendar that was entitled: Promised Blessings – Scripture Verses for Every Day of the Year. I felt prompted to flip through to the one year anniversary of Kevin’s passing. I picked up the calendar and quickly flipped to December 13th and read these words:

“Send forth your light and your truth, let them guide me; let them bring me to your holy mountain, to the place where you dwell, then will I go to the altar of my God, to God, my joy and my delight.”

I couldn’t hold back my tears. I took the flip calendar and headed for the checkout stand. I wasn’t prepared to receive such a powerful witness right there in the middle of the Christmas shopping bustle, but I will always cherish the comfort and assurance I received from my Father in Heaven that day.

When my husband read the scripture verse in the flip calendar, he was on board with preparing Kevin’s name. After checking the calendar and noticing that December 13th fell on a Sunday, we decided we would go on the 15th. I went to the family history center and prepared the necessary information to take Kevin to the temple.

Patty with Kevin

The year leading to the designated date was overwhelming. I had gone back to school. I had continued to work outside the home and to serve in my callings at church and in the temple. We had also decided to move out of our home and into a farmhouse to help a friend. It was the move that was my final straw, and I experienced a complete breakdown then and there. My breakdown occurred almost a year to the day of Kevin’s passing. I was so weak that just walking from the bathroom and back to bed would leave me completely exhausted.

On the morning of December 15th, I was lying in bed when my husband came to ask if we were still going to the temple. All of a sudden, I remembered the scripture verse from my calendar. I got out of bed and said, “The only way I’m not going to the temple today is over my dead body.” I got up, dressed, pulled my hair back, and we headed for the temple. If we hadn’t gone that day, it would have been put off for at least another year because of the aftermath of the breakdown.

What were some of the experiences you went through with your breakdown?

Although I didn’t experience debilitating grief at the time of my son’s death, I did experience a tremendous storm one year later. At first, I had no idea what was happening to me. It was the first year anniversary of his death, and many people warned me that it would be the hardest grieving period. I began to think that this must the problem.

I remember feeling overwhelmed and afraid because of the state of our American economy. I was afraid we wouldn’t be able to meet our financial obligations and that we would lose our house. I tried more than once to express my concerns to my husband, but he could not deal with my anxieties either and was dealing with his own issues and grief. I continued to push myself into a state of complete emotional and physical exhaustion. It got to where I couldn’t think straight or sort anything out in my life. I completely lost my appetite, and my physical strength was gone. I couldn’t sleep at all, and after two weeks of burning sensations all over my body, I dreamed I was going to die and join my Kevin. The next day my mother took me to the hospital where I was admitted to the psychiatric ward.

This was the darkest time of my life. I was confused and afraid. I had no idea what was happening to me or why. I was physically and emotionally exhausted. I couldn’t stop crying, I hadn’t slept in two weeks, and I couldn’t eat. All I wanted was to feel normal again. Thankfully, I had a wonderful psychiatrist who found a treatment that helped. He said that I had anxiety due to too much stress and that it was manifesting itself physically.

When I was finally released and sent home to recover, I was still in pretty bad shape. I remember avoiding mirrors because I didn’t recognize myself. I began grief counseling to work through Kevin’s death. After a few months of listening in group therapy, I was asked if I’d be willing to talk about my son. I didn’t hesitate to share what had happened and the peace I still felt about his passing. At the end of the session, the counselor took me aside. She wished to express that she didn’t feel Kevin’s death had caused my break down. I seemed to be in a healthy place regarding his death. I sobbed with relief and thanked her for her reassurance. I attended several more months of personal counseling to discover the root cause. Painful truths of heartache, neglect, and abuse from my childhood and beyond that I’d buried for years began to surface, and the process of cleansing them from my soul began.

I remember feeling like I wasn’t worth anything to my husband because I was such an emotional mess and could barely take care of myself. I felt that he needed a strong, capable woman, and that woman wasn’t me. It was beyond difficult to let him hold and comfort me. I didn’t believe he could ever really love me in my current condition, and my own insecurities surfaced. I decided it would be best if I just left my old life behind because I felt that he’d be better off without me. I just wanted to figure out what was going on so I could do everything in my power to avoid it happening again. I am so grateful that God blessed me to work through these dark times, and through His grace, I was able to find peace in His loving embrace.

My physical weakness continued for some time. All my life I’d enjoyed excellent health. I’d been strong and able—or at least I’d pushed myself to believe that. Now I could barely keep up. My time was spent resting and recovering from a weakened condition that had no predictable recovery time. I was told it would just take time, and that I needed to be patient and take care of myself, but I desperately wanted healing right now! I turned with full heart to the Lord for strength. I’d given all I had to this process, and I trusted that He could make up the rest.

You struggled with your breakdown for quite some time. What processes have you gone through to heal?

Healing has come as I exercise faith in Christ. I also choose, day by day, to love and forgive my husband for all the years of neglect and abuse, and I watch his heart soften in return. Through the prayers of family and friends, and through the process of repentance and forgiveness for both of us, our marriage has been saved. I’ve heard that when Christ touches something it lives. I know for myself that this is true, and because He touched our marriage, it lives today.

I’ve learned to be positive and focus on the good things in my life, no matter how many bad things surrounded me. That is so hard to do when the clouds of darkness and mental noise are so consuming. I started writing down five different things I was thankful for each day. As I focused on my blessings, I began to feel better about myself and about my life. I realized I had so much to be thankful for, my attitude became more positive, and my mental clarity greatly improved. I learned to take things slow. I learned to say no and create boundaries. I learned to be realistic with myself, to pace myself, to take breaks and rest throughout the day. The process has been difficult, but I am learning to do what I can and find joy in simple daily accomplishments.

In April of 2010, I received the miracle of healing as the Lord blessed me with a renewed and energetic body and mind. My healing journey is far from over, but I’ve come to realize that working through these experiences is just that—a journey—and now I embrace the power that comes from it. I know that God’s timing is perfect. I have come to trust not only in His will but also in His timing. I’m so thankful for the Savior, for His Love and Grace, and for the power He has to bless and heal us if we will trust Him and let Him.

I echo the words of the Prophet Nephi as if they were my own:

“Behold my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.

My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.
He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the nighttime.

And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high.

Rejoice, O my heart and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robes of thy righteousness. Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way – but that thou wouldst clear my way…

Oh Lord, I have trusted in thee and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh.

Yea I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold my voice shall forever ascent up into thee, my rock and mine everlasting God, Amen.”

This October I celebrated my spiritual birthday. It’s hard to believe that it has been twenty years since I plead with the Lord for forgiveness of my sins. That day I made the most important decision of my life, the day that changed the course of my life, the day I decided to give my whole heart to Jesus Christ. I will never be the same. Yes, sometimes the journey is long, but it is in our darkest hour that we often turn to Him, truly come to know Him, and love Him, and trust Him. It is our greatest and most important decision to have faith in the Lord, in His perfect timing, and in His perfect will. It requires our very best, and when we do, He does make up the difference in our lives. I know in the future there will be more challenges to face and obstacles to overcome, but I will always believe Him and trust in Him.

God lives. He loves us more than we can imagine. He does hear and answer every sincere and heartfelt prayer. We are known and loved by Him, and He longs to encircle us in the arms of His love. He has said, “Draw near unto me,” and in return has promised, “I will draw near unto you.” He is who He says He is: He is the God of Miracles and the God of Love. He is the Good Shepherd. He is the Prince of Peace. He is the Healer of our Souls, and He is our Savior and Redeemer. He guides us patiently, waiting for us to decide that we need Him more than we need the world or the struggles in it and realize He was there with open arms all along.

At A Glance

Patty Gutshall

Location: Potlatch, Idaho

Marital status: Married

Children: 4

Occupation: Hair Technician and Spokane Valley Temple Worker

Favorite Hymn: “The Lord is My Light”

Interview by Jessica Drollette. Photos used with permission.

Inspired by her childhood love of shrinky dinks, Garfield, Disney movies and bathtime, animator and artist Annie Poon has established herself as a premier paper stop motion animator. In fact, one of her films was acquired by the Museum of Modern Art in New York. In addition to capturing the most magical moments of childhood, Annie has turned her talents towards animating the most violent scenes in the Book of Mormon in her “Die Wicked Die” series. Annie’s new ebook, “Puppy’s Super Delicious Valentine’s Day Biscuits!” is available just in time for the holiday!

How did you choose to pursue art as a profession? Was it a choice at all, or something you felt compelled to do?

I’ve been working in paper stop motion for ten years now. It is a nostalgic medium for me because working with paper reminds me of childhood, when my twin sister Katie and I would play with paper.

We would draw characters on our Sacrament Meeting programs. We would rip them out and make them dance back and forth to each other’s laps. We would also stage puppet shows with our paper characters taped to straws in the window of our playhouse. Animating with paper is my way of continuing that paper play-acting.

We lived in a house in Connecticut, very close to New York City. Mom and Dad took all us kids all into New York at least once a year to wander through the galleries of the Metropolitan Museum of Art and get hot dogs at our favorite place, Gray’s Papaya. Here we are after a long day at the Met.

One of the most important days of my life was when my mom took me out of elementary school by myself to visit the Metropolitan Museum. She wrote a note to the school saying she was giving me an “artistic education”. At the museum, she coached me on painters’ names and started giving me nickels for each artist I could identify. I got to spend the money in the gift shop.

My parents also read us a captivating book called From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler. In this book, a brother and sister run away from home to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. They hide in the bathroom at closing time from staff, sleep in the exhibits, bathe in the fountain, and steal money from the moat of the Temple of Dendur.

To this day when I go to the Met, I still imagine hiding in the bathrooms and scooping up money from the moat to pay for a visit to the gift shop.

Aside from the Met, my early influences were Garfield, Snoopy, the Ninja turtles, Garbage Pail Kids, and Charlie Brown. I copied everything I could get my hands on and built a drawing table in the basement next to the boiler room.

What was it about animation that appealed to you personally?

I always loved when my dad would come home Sunday nights, put up his feet in the big chair, and read the weekend version of the New York Times. I would always ask him to pass me the “funny paper” section and would devour every single comic. I liked how the comics didn’t necessarily have to be about something big, they just slowly inched a narrative forward or even stayed in one spot. My favorite strips, like Peanuts and Garfield, seemed like they were stuck in time and could just go on forever. And they really have!

I also loved all the Disney movies and even took notes in my sketchbook with a friend when we went to see “Beauty and the Beast”. My best friend and I even wrote letters to Disney asking advice about what to do to become Disney animators someday. We actually got an encouraging letter back!

Yes, we talked about becoming animators for a few years, but once I saw modern painting that was completely eclipsed. In high school my art teacher took us to the Museum of Modern Art and I saw paintings like ‘Autumn Rhythm’ by Jackson Pollock for the first time. I felt an incredible power coming from these paintings. I started reading the biographies of artists like Jackson Pollock, Michelangelo, Picasso, Frida Kahlo, and Georgia O’Keefe. There was a half-price bookstore within walking distance of my house and I started buying up monographs of all the great names.

I actually looked down on animation as too lightweight and silly, and placed painting at the top of a pyramid in my mind. Only when I started maturing as an artist did I realize that happiness and fun was a perfectly okay objective. I started to appreciate all those artists who adorn the walls of my imagination with cartoons, graffiti, animation, and design.

As for shrinky dinks, I did have an unusual love for them. Also for colorforms and stickers. They all consisted of cut-out figures that could interact with any background. They were like dolls but less bulky. I loved drawing paper backgrounds and animating my own drawn cut-outs against the paper with my hands.

This was Togby, my first cartoon character. My friend Catherine was so in love with him that she asked if she could be my agent. She delighted in telling people about him. It is only now as an adult that I would be able to admit to Catherine that Togby was actually copied from a book.

Here is a painting I made at in high school. It’s about hopes and dreams. It shows how what we create will take us into the world. The girl holds a fetus connected to a cord that escapes a bubble and ventures off into the universe. The world welcomes us with open hands. Each dotted line represents a different path we could take.

Instead of getting a part-time job, I sold drawings and paintings to friends to get spending money in high school and college.

After a term at BYU and some community college, I studied at the School of Visual Arts in Manhattan. My dream of living in New York had come true. I started making paintings that were inspired by my love of stickers, shrinky dinks, and free floating cut-outs. Seen in person they look like paper collages on canvas. Little did I know these collage-like forms would one day break truly free.

Eventually I faced a great conundrum. I started making paintings that talked about what painting couldn’t do. It couldn’t tell a story quite the way I wanted it to. For me, a painting was just one still image in frozen moment. So, I started painting frozen moments in time, with the eyes obscured the way you might think of a memory. Like this painting of my mother when she was pregnant with me.

I had one semester left of art school, and my husband suddenly said to me that instead of making these paintings, I should do something that reflected my personality. He asked if I could think back to a time when I was making something that expressed that joy and fun that he saw in me. Maybe, he suggested, I should go back to that. It took only one split second for me to remember my paper games with Katie.

The first project I made was called “In Love”. It took about two hours. It was a video recording of a flipbook that I made in the corner of my sketchbook. It shows me and my husband kissing. For the soundtrack, I kissed the back of my hand.

In Love from Annie Poon on Vimeo.

My great drawing teacher Lucio Pozzi asked me a great question. He said, “If you were creating something that everyone around you praised you for, but you had something in your heart that you always wanted to try, would you have the courage to put your current work aside and try your idea? Or would you rest on your laurels?” I said of course I would try it. This conversation convinced me that I needed to put painting aside for the time being.

The Roly Poly Pudding from Annie Poon on Vimeo.

Bathtime was a magical time to a kid with a big imagination and so when I put painting aside, I returned to those magical times with Katie. Katie and I would get in the bathtub, turn on the shower and imagine that the whole world had flooded, the tub was a boat, and that we were trying to survive out at sea by drinking rainwater tea and eating fish. I was just out of art school and this film was bought by the Museum of Modern Art in New York. It was one of my happiest moments.

What is something you’ve really struggled with in your life? How have you expressed that struggle in your art?

My struggle has been with my health. Without going into specifics, sometimes I find myself unable to work. That can last up to a few months when I have a bad bout. It leads me to deep sadness and confusion. I just have to chalk that up to experience and work like a mad woman when I find myself able to work again. Then inspiration hits like a ton of bricks and nothing is sweeter. I work till the early morning hours and still don’t want to go to sleep for fear of losing my inspiration. Now that I know my body better, I don’t take health and inspiration for granted and I don’t wait on executing a good idea. This animation, “Annie’s Circus”, deals with sadness and the loss of inspiration. A sleepwalker shuffles through the streets of New York City. This animation is partly inspired by the movie “The Last Unicorn” and by Alexander Calder’s CIRCUS.

Annie’s Circus from Annie Poon on Vimeo.

This next animation, “The Book of Visions”, was created for Mormon Artists Group. It is inspired by three books I read in high school that involved children receiving heavenly visions to guide their people. The three books are Black Elk Speaks (by Black Elk), Joan of Arc (by Mark Twain), and the Book of Mormon (translated by Joseph Smith). I believed that if God had sent angels to these teens, it meant that he took them seriously in spite of their youth. Reading about the accounts gave me a feeling of importance and they uplifted me. I knew that even though I was a teenager, I had great potential. And though I might struggle with teen angst, I knew I had a Father in Heaven who loved me unconditionally and would communicate with me through prayer and revelation just the way He did with these three youths. Their stories gave me self-confidence to get by in high school. This is my longest animation, it took a year to research and make.

The Book of Visions from Annie Poon on Vimeo.

Talk about your animations of Book of Mormon characters. Why do you think paper animation is an effective medium for telling the stories of the Book of Mormon?

When I was little my parents made sure to buy us the church’s illustrated comics of the scriptures. I loved reading these but always had a feeling that I was looking at a censored version of what really took place. The paintings were so calm looking even when the events described were outrageous. I started making my own action packed versions of these stories.

Now, making my own versions, I’m portraying the stories the way a teenager might really imagine them. They are also influenced by MTV culture and by the Simpsons, specifically the over the top violence of “Itchy and Scratchy”. I think paper animation is a good way to portray the Book of Mormon stories because it’s an entirely new way to portray them. I think if there’s any way to peak people’s interest in scripture study, I’m happy to do that.

The first one I made was for Mormon Artists group. It’s David and Goliath. Because they’re about the deaths of wicked men, I titled this project ‘Die Wicked Die’. Several of these films are currently on exhibit at the BYU Museum of Art.

Die Wicked Die series: David, Korihor, Ammon from Annie Poon on Vimeo.

These are, of course, just my own interpretation. For example, in this next animation about Nephi beheading Laban, I dressed Laban in a costume reminiscent of Lady Gaga’s spiked tops. I also made Nephi a lot less afraid of shedding blood than in the real story.

Die Wicked Die: Laban from Annie Poon on Vimeo.

This next short is from the “war chapters” of the Book of Mormon. In it, Teancum, the chief of the Nephite army, has to sneak into the camp of the rebel king at night: “And it came to pass that Teancum stole privily into the tent of the king, and put a javelin into his heart; and he did cause the death of the king immediately that he did not awaken his servants.” (Alma 51:34)

Die Wicked Die: Teancum from Annie Poon on Vimeo.

Shiz is a truly bloodthirsty Lamanite who sweeps down all in his path. One verse that most interested me is Ether 15: 29-31: “They had all fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with loss of blood. …And it came to pass that after [Coriantumur] had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.”

Die Wicked Die: Shiz from Annie Poon on Vimeo.

Would you describe the process of making one of your films? It seems like it would be an incredibly labor intensive process. How do you find the patience to work in this medium?

First, I pick a story that’s been carried in my heart for a long time. Then, I design the characters and identify the appropriate medium, be it watercolor, marker, etc. I want to make sure the medium matches the mood, for example I used florescent highlighters for the Book of Mormon violent sequences. I find or create the music. Then I close my eyes and listen to the music again and again, seeing which key images come to mind. I jot down those images and they become my “money shots”.

I fill in the rest of the scenes and time everything to the beat of the music. Then comes the tedious part: the animation. I can only animate about 5 seconds a day. After I film the day’s footage, I usually have to go back and refilm because my husband has thought of some gag we could have included or I realize a way to make it more visually effective. An animation of a minute long could take me a month, not including the music. After I make an animation, I take time off because I’ve generally neglected everything else and need to let my brain unwind. The animations drive me bonkers to make because of the tedium. My husband has nicknamed me “the Ghost” because I can only work for 15 minutes or so before I come out of my office and wander slowly around the house shaking my hands and trying to loosen up and get the courage to make the next couple of seconds of the story. It is maddening. But the final result is so mesmerizing to me that I am addicted to making them. I have to make very strict calendars and deadlines to keep myself moving at all.

Do you see your work as overtly spiritual? Are you a “Mormon artist” or an artist who happens to be Mormon? Apart from the Book of Mormon thematic elements, what role does spirituality play in your art?

I guess it just depends on who is looking at my work. I let them decide. If it’s someone in the New York art scene, I’m just an artist who happens to be Mormon. Although I may make work about the gospel, I don’t expect a different treatment for being Mormon. If I’m at BYU presenting my work, the context changes and I become a Mormon artist. I am happy to claim the label “Mormon” because I think we are a great bunch and I want to inspire other Mormons to follow their own dream of being an artist. I feel that by making art which delves into the gospel, I am inviting others to do the same. I don’t try to be “spiritual”, I just try to be me: a person who happens to make some of their art about the gospel.

What advice would you give to other female Mormon artists who are considering art as their professional pursuit?

I welcome freelance jobs and carefully consider requests for animations. But I am not willing to sacrifice my work if someone asks me to make a piece for them which is not in my style and pays little money. I feel like my time is better spent doing something I think is amazing for no money but will bring me positive attention in the long run. I think it’s important to be realistic and find something else you really enjoy to pair up with your art practice, such as design and illustration.

I remember the day in Kindergarten when my teacher held up a chart that had pictures of people from different professions. I remember a fireman, a secretary, an artist, a doctor, etc. My teacher said that when we grew up we could choose to be any one of those things. Even though I was only five, I took her very seriously. I remember going through a moment’s reflection and thinking I had two choices. I was already good at writing songs on the piano and I just loved to draw. I knew if I started focusing on one right then, I could be ahead of the game when I grew up. It sounds calculating and crazy for a five year old but I swear it’s true! So I picked art. Since then I have always felt like my identity was to be an artist. I enjoy it so much that I don’t notice the difficulty and diligence it takes. It’s all I want to do. Sundays can be hard for me because I don’t make art on that day. But I know the Lord inspires me doubly during the following week.

As far as advice to other Mormon artists, who consider art as their professional pursuit, I would say don’t expect to pay the rent with the art. Sorry if this hurts anyone’s feelings. I don’t measure my success in dollars. But I would rather make mind-boggling art and do little jobs on the side like design and illustration to make extra cash than put a strain on that holy time in the studio when inspiration, not money, directs me. The best work I make is when I feel isolated and unnoticed, and just feel free to play. And that’s something people notice about my art, that the sense of freedom and experimentation. Then people who see it will talk about it and bring opportunities to you. I feel like the time to create is sacred and needs to be free from financial calculation. Once you have expressed yourself by creating a body of work, then you take off the artist hat and put on the marketing hat. Then it’s time to put the word out, post online, on your personal website, on Etsy, invite friends to your studio, etc. That is just as exhilarating. But I still can’t pay all my bills every month with my art. More power to you if you can!

Would you share your Valentine’s Day treat with us?

In the spirit of Valentine’s Day, I would like to show you an animation I made based on my comic character, Puppy and his crush, the beautiful Miss Duck. The comic first started appearing three years ago on the website FredFlare.com and is now being made into a series of 12 ebooks with the first one out today on iTunes. Oh Puppy! is about a little pup in love in the Big Apple.

Oh Puppy! from Annie Poon on Vimeo.

At A Glance

Annie Poon

Location: New York, NY

Age: 35

Marital status: Married

Occupation: Artist and animator

Schools Attended: School of Visual Arts

Languages Spoken at Home: English

Favorite Hymn: “In Humility, Our Savior”

On The Web: www.anniepoon.com and www.ohpuppy.net

Interview by Neylan McBaine. Portrait by Alisia Packard.

As the founder of a consultancy that prepares and promotes women and minorities in politics, Sui Lang Panoke is trained to find opportunities for organizations to improve their representations of these groups. She sees her love of the Church as complementary, not in contradiction, to her professional training. As a single mother and Relief Society president in her Washington D.C. ward, Sui Lang shares her testimony of the Church’s divine organization and the opportunities the gospel gives each member to grow in her own relationship with the Lord.

I’ll start with my parents’ conversions, because both of them are first-generation converts to the LDS Church. I was born in Honolulu, HI and raised in Salt Lake City, Utah from grade school through college. I moved to Washington, D.C. for graduate school about seven years ago and have loved living in the Greater Washington Area ever since. Major culture shock! In a good way.

My mother grew up in a strong Catholic household, but always found herself searching for something more. After graduating from high school, she went to Utah to visit a friend who was a member of the Church. She received numerous invitations to go to church from friends, neighbors, and the missionaries, and one day she decided to attend. The moment she walked into the chapel on the University of Utah campus, she immediately felt the Spirit and knew in her heart that she had found what she had been looking for. She was baptized by the missionaries shortly after and has been a strong and faithful member ever since.

My father grew up in Nanakuli, which is a small town on the island of Oahu. The legislative district in which Nanakuli is located has the highest percentage of native Hawaiian constituents in the country. My father is not a full-blooded native Hawaiian, but he’s over 60%, which is very rare for this day and age. He was fellowshipped by the missionaries when he was thirteen. They took him to church and he loved it. He was baptized shortly after and ended up being the first missionary ever from his branch to serve a full-time mission. He served a Mandarin Chinese-speaking mission in Taiwan. My parents currently reside in Holladay, Utah and attend the Chinese ward at the University of Utah.

My parents met in Utah, were married in the Salt Lake Temple, and decided to raise their family in Utah. We have a very colorful family in Hawaii, and they wanted to raise their family around like-minded people who shared the same moral values and spiritual beliefs as they did.

Utah is not a very ethnically or culturally diverse state–although it’s getting better!  I still find it somewhat telling whenever I meet new people out here in the D.C. area and they find out I’m from Utah. I get the same three questions: Are you Mormon? Are you a Republican? And, are you a polygamist? I usually laugh and probe more about how they have arrived at these assumptions about Mormons and it then leads into a very interesting and in-depth political and religious discussion. Which, on the surface, most of us try to avoid–especially in D.C.–but somehow I find myself falling into these conversations all the time, unintentionally. I do have to say, though, I have often felt the Spirit during these discussions and always end up feeling that both myself and whomever I’m talking to leave the conversation with our hearts being opened in a new way. I am absolutely grateful for my upbringing in Utah because it taught me how to engage, communicate, and connect with people who are different from me. It was a great experience to always be the minority (since I am of Hawaiian descent) because it gave me an opportunity to voice my opinion on a variety of issues. Even when I didn’t think I really had an opinion, people wanted to know what it was. As an undergrad, I singlehandedly represented the woman, the minority, the progressive, and the Democrat perspective in all of my political science classes; I would often get called upon by my professors to share my perspective as a woman, as a minority, or as a progressive. Being the minority also led to a lot of leadership opportunities. For example, I was appointed by the governor to serve on the Martin Luther King, Jr. Human Rights Commission. The commission was charged with promoting diversity in education throughout the state. I was grateful for opportunities like that.

One concern I often hear from people of color who visit Utah is that they feel a strong sense–or at least stronger than other areas of the country–of racial profiling and racial discrimination during their stay. I can understand how people of color can perceive any form of what they perceive to be unfair treatment as being racist or discriminatory. And I have experienced that feeling first-hand on many occasions–not just in Utah, but in various parts of the world. But in Utah, specifically, I can honestly say that I rarely felt like I was being racially discriminated against, because I was a member of the Church. In other areas of the country, like Washington D.C. where I live now, racial segregation still very much exists. But in Utah, I feel a stronger presence of religious segregation. Sometimes I feel like there is an unspoken separation between members and non-members. I experienced and felt that divide much more than the racial divide. I have dark skin, dark curly hair. I’m not Black, although often times people think I am. I have one of those ambiguous looks which allows me to essentially fit into just about any ethnic group: I have been mistaken for being Black, Asian, Hispanic–you name it. But I’m actually native Hawaiian, Filipino, and Chinese, and once people find out I’m from Hawaii they immediately open up to me, because hey, who doesn’t love Hawaii? I always felt accepted by my Caucasian counterparts in Utah because I was a member of the Church, and the fact that I was from Hawaii was like a bonus! So, I was “safe” and included in their social circles.

I have always felt that our church leaders have had a special and unique love and compassion for Pacific Islanders–native Hawaiians, especially, because of the “Aloha Spirit.” I actually attended BYU-Hawaii my first year of undergrad. I was working at the Polynesian Cultural Center as a dancer in the canoe show, and while I was there we had the opportunity to meet President Hinckley and perform for him. We had devoted months and months of practice in preparation for his visit, and what struck me the most when he finally came was the manner in which he received the gifts and love we offered him–so humbly and graciously. I’ve heard numerous prophets and general authorities speak about Polynesians in a special way and testify to their love for our people, culture, and food!

I feel the Lord has a special place in His heart for people of color who have been unfairly treated because of the color of their skin, or children who have been born with severe physical or mental disabilities–basically anyone who has come down to this earth and has been ridiculed, discriminated against, or mistreated in some way because of aspects of themselves that are beyond their control. Striving to view them through the eyes of Christ is how I make sense of things that happen on this earth that seem unfair in the world. I have grown to see these circumstances and experiences as a compliment from the Lord, in that, He chose His strongest and most resilient children to come to this earth in those bodies, knowing the level of adversity that they would face. He was confident in their strength and knew that they had the capacity to love their persecutors unconditionally, the ability to exercise their power to forgive, and the spiritual maturity to view these experiences as learning opportunities.

You run your own media and political training organization. How would you describe your career trajectory?

In Utah, I got involved in local politics. I volunteered on campaigns and quickly became one of the leaders in the Young Democrats of Utah. After completing my undergrad work, I applied to American University’s School of Public Affairs to pursue my masters in public administration and a certificate in women, policy, and political leadership at the Women & Politics Institute. One of my passions is empowering women to engage in the political process, pursue public office, and work towards bridging the gender gap in public leadership.

When I was accepted to AU for grad school, my daughter, my father, and our standard poodle drove across the country to Washington, D.C. The week prior to our move, I had no idea where we were going to live, where I was going to work, where my daughter would go to school; all I knew was that D.C. was where we were supposed to be and somehow it all worked out.

My professional interests lie in getting more women and minorities elected to public office. As our population becomes more and more diverse I feel that our political leadership should, in turn, reflect that diversity. We have a long way to go with that. I’ve worked in the private sector, in the non-profit sector, in federal and local government, on the campaign trail, and on the Hill. I have gained a little experience in essentially every aspect of the political process. What I have learned, coming out of these experiences, is that the media is the playing field for politics in the 21^st century. If you want to be effective in the political arena, you have to know how to effectively engage in the media. The media landscape has transformed the political landscape and vice versa. As I’ve studied the disparities that exist between women and minorities in political leadership, I’ve also learned that those same disparities exist in the media. It was with this basic understanding that the training organization I run was founded. We target women and minority groups–individuals and organizations–and train them on how to use the media as a vehicle to impact public policy. We offer training participants an opportunity to create “personalized media packages” that consist of three key components: an op-ed on a topic of their choice, a video segment of them speaking on that same topic, and a professional headshot. Each participant walks away from our trainings ready to pitch themselves and their viewpoints to the local and mainstream media with practical tools that they can immediately put to use.

In 2010, I was invited by the International Republican Institute to conduct a training program for women aspirants in Lagos, Nigeria. The institute’s mission is to strengthen democracies around the world, and it has a women’s program that focuses on integrating and empowering more women to engage in the political process with the underlying belief that women’s increased political participation will strengthen a country’s social, economic, and political stability and infrastructure. That’s where I come in: training women on how to engage with the media, become leaders in their communities, and ultimately pursue public office. Together, we trained over fifty women aspirants and media experts on effective messaging and political communications on the campaign trail. I have been extremely humbled through my experiences working with women leaders in Africa and other developing countries around the world and I have gained a deeper appreciation for the basic rights and privileges and simple things in life that we so often take for granted in America.

You were a single mother of a young child when you started pursuing your graduate degree. How did you make that all work?

Well, there’s no way I could have done it without my parents or the Church. Literally. For that I am grateful. My father is a retired public school teacher who volunteered to basically be my full-time nanny while I was in grad school. I worked during the day and went to school at night. Often times I would leave the house before my daughter woke up, and return home after she had already gone to bed.  Looking back now, I think this was by far the most difficult part for me. I remember a time when I had taken my daughter to a doctor’s appointment and the doctor asked me when her last bowel movement was and I couldn’t answer the question. I cried that night. It’s times like these when you, as a mother, begin to take a step back and reevaluate your priorities.

Did you always intend to keep the baby when you were pregnant with her?

That whole experience of going through pregnancy and childbirth alone was extremely difficult. Initially, it was probably the darkest time of my life, spiritually. On one hand, I was really disappointed in myself, like “How did I end up here?” This was not part of my life plan. I haven’t always been active in the Church. But, through this experience I found myself on my knees praying day after day for God’s comfort and guidance to help me through this. I was quickly inspired to shift my perspective on my situation and instead of seeing my pregnancy as an obstacle, I looked at it as a gift–the greatest gift anyone could ever hope for. It was the Lord saying, “Come back,” and at the same time giving me the most precious gift of all–my daughter. No one ever aspires to become a single parent–it’s not your childhood dream–but I can honestly say that being a single parent has been one of the greatest blessings in my life. It has led to my testimony growing stronger than I could have ever imagined. I know that I would not have the testimony of the gospel to the extent that I do, had I not gone through this experience. I have gained a deeper understanding of why the Lord has us go through the trials that we go through. It’s all part of His master plan designed to teach us, humble us, and strengthen our faith. I think a lot of people, when they have children, begin to focus more on increasing their spirituality, and it was the same for me. The birth of my daughter ultimately brought me back to the Church. For that, I am truly grateful.

It sounds like your family was pretty supportive when she was born. Did that support come immediately?

Absolutely! I’m very fortunate–my family is very supportive in everything I do. I think a lot of it comes from our culture and upbringing in Hawaii. The “Aloha Spirit” breeds unconditional love and acceptance.

My daughter and her father remain very close despite the fact that he doesn’t live with us. He and I have also been able to sustain a healthy co-parenting relationship over the years, which to me is essential to the emotional and spiritual well-being of all parties involved. My father, however, has ended up being the primary father figure in my daughter’s daily life. And I am extremely grateful for that. My father is the most Christ-like person I’ve ever known. And, he and my daughter have always had a very close and special bond. I remember at one point when she was two or three years old she would call him “Mama.”

Where do you see your life plan and your career going in the future?

As I get older, I really do want to settle down. I want to get married. I want to have more children. For someone who has had some pretty ambitious career goals, I find my career ambitions becoming less and less a priority. My role and place in the world become less important to me than the place that I’m at spiritually. I know this mindset may not seem very amenable to pursuing a career in the political arena, but as we grow our goals and priorities change. My goal now is to strive to achieve that balance between my responsibilities inside and outside of the home, being mindful of the energy I give to my family and my career. I continuously strive to be in a place where I can continue to pursue professional work that I am passionate about while moving forward with my family goals, too–which I realize, now more than ever, are most important. I don’t want to be one of those women who are consumed by their work. I see that often in D.C. I want to make sure I’m devoting as much time to my daughter as I am to my work. It’s difficult to find that balance, especially when I am sustaining the household on my own. It’s a process every day and every day we get better and better.

We so often tend to compare ourselves to others–our successes, our failures, our trials, and our accomplishments–but I have learned that our lives are not a competition. Each and every one of us has a unique role and mission here on earth.  No two are identical.  It is with this knowledge I find peace and joy in any work that I choose to do.

Is it tempting to have your career be all-consuming?

Absolutely. I always have to check myself when I feel like I’m ignoring my kid! Anyone who knows me knows I’m notorious for dragging my daughter to conferences, meetings, networking receptions. But, anyone who knows us will also say my daughter’s a great networker herself! On our way home from one of my board meetings the other day, she was telling me how someone had recruited her to join their fundraising committee! My initial thought was, that’s brilliant! I was like, who wouldn’t want to give money to a bright, beautiful nine-year-old girl advocating for a good cause?

I was an only child of a single mom myself. I got dragged around to a lot of grownup places too! I’m sure she’s doing beautifully.

She really is. I actually look up to her! I think she teaches me more than I teach her. One of my closest aunts made an observation about my daughter a few years ago that I have found to be remarkably true over the years. She said that she has never seen a child at such a young age who “thinks before she speaks.” This is such an accurate characterization of my daughter and, hey, I don’t know very many adults that have learned how to do this, so this is a true sign of maturity in adolescence for sure.

I do feel that I have unique blessings as a single mother in the Church. I get to call all the shots in my home. I get invited to all the singles and family activities. And, I’m always saying this to our missionaries, but one benefit of being a single mother in the Church is that I am required to have both sets of missionaries in my home whenever I invite them over for dinner. I love having the missionaries in my home. One of the reasons I love having them over is because I love feeling the presence of the priesthood in my home. I find it remarkable that these men at such a young age are so much further ahead, spiritually, than some of our world leaders that reside right down the street. Over the years we’ve had some very interesting intellectual, spiritual, and sometimes political discussions and we always arrive at the same consensus: even though I’m a big champion of diversity, we all understand that it ultimately doesn’t matter what your ethnic background is, what your political affiliation is, what country you come from. We are all daughters and sons of Heavenly Father and we all warrant the same divine love. We all have access to the same blessings. I love that the missionaries always get this.

One of the things I’ve struggled with in the Church is the history of its treatment of African Americans. My daughter’s father is African American. Most of the men I’ve dated have been African American and I have sort of developed a reputation for dating black Republicans. Many of my friends wonder how I do it. But, I have learned a lot about the gospel and what it really means through these relationships. Me, being politically progressive but religiously conservative, finding myself drawn to African American conservatives actually makes perfect sense to me. I believe that when each of us is able to get to the point where we can sit down with people of opposing views and genuinely seek to understand where their beliefs are coming from, this is how our country–and, ultimately the world–will be healed. It is very difficult to get to that point, and it always ultimately begins with us. I feel that the gospel is what’s going to get us there. Or at least it is what’s gotten me to where I’m at right now spiritually. I haven’t always been as open and accepting as I am now.

Since I’ve been formally trained to analyze organizations, institutions, or governments and assess where they stand in terms of women and minority representation, I find myself inadvertently doing the same thing with our church. I can’t help but understand the concerns that people of color have about the way minorities have been treated within the Church. If you look at our church worldwide, it’s extremely ethnically diverse. But in America, it’s overwhelmingly Caucasian and most of our leaders are Caucasian men. I see many similarities between what we face as a church and what other churches face with regard to integrating women and minorities into leadership roles. I know there will be a day when we see more ethnic diversity in the leadership of the Church, but every church has essentially struggled with this for centuries. That’s why I always say, “Why does the LDS Church always seem to be singled out in this regard?”

I want to quickly share an experience. When our stake got reorganized, Elder Holland came out to assist in the transition and it was the first time that an apostle had come to the Greater Washington Area in twenty years, so it was kind of a big deal. We prepared for this stake conference months in advance. You had to arrive four to five hours early just to get a seat. I was praying that I would get a seat in the chapel. One of my friends from my ward was serving as an usher and got me a seat in the chapel about a dozen rows from the front of the stand. It ended up being the most spiritual meeting I’ve ever been in. I think this is why: oftentimes I find myself looking up at the pulpit in sacrament meeting, stake conference, or General Conference and observing that the leadership of our church residing on the stand are overwhelmingly, if not all, “old white men.” I think I do this naturally because of my training.

This meeting was different, because in this meeting, though I found myself looking up on the stand and once again seeing all white men, this time I was inspired to look beyond what meets the eye. And I didn’t see them as “old white men”; I saw them as men of God who just happened to be white. One after another they each testified of their love for their wives, their love for our Savior, and their love for each and every one of us there. Although they were sitting above all of us on the stand, I knew that in the hearts of these men, they did not set themselves above any one of us in the room; their leadership roles were more lateral than hierarchical. Each one of them came from a place of humility, meekness, and gratitude. It dawned on me that all of these years, I was hoping and waiting for the demographic of the leadership in the Church to change, when in fact, the Lord was waiting for me to humble myself to the point where I could switch my focus from viewing those around me through the eyes of the world to genuinely seeing those around me through the eyes of the Lord. It doesn’t matter what any of us looks like on the outside; what matters is what’s in our hearts. In fact, this is the only thing that matters to the Lord. It was the most powerful meeting that I’ve ever been in.

It was also particularly inspiring to me because Elder Holland talked about how remarkable the Church is to have a divinely led process through which the transfer of power is passed on. I have always found this most fascinating about our church. He commented on how quickly and efficiently the reorganization of the new stake presidency was and how it was, most importantly, done with love. This made me think of the contrast between the Church and the political arena today, where it is pretty much impossible to have a smooth, expedient transfer of power from administration to administration, let alone “with love!” It seems like the absence of love is what’s prevalent throughout the world whenever a transfer of power occurs in the public or private sector. Where else in the world can you witness a transfer of power like the reorganization of our stake presidency? A transfer made so smoothly, so expediently, and with love? He was absolutely right. Hearing testimonies like that, I couldn’t deny it. I could not deny that this church is led by Jesus Christ.

Another thing I have grown to love and appreciate about the men throughout the Church is that nowhere else will you see so many men crying in front of hundreds or thousands of people. I mean, you rarely see men cry, period, and if they do it’s in a private intimate setting behind closed doors. But, in our church grown men will be speaking to large congregations, or at a world-wide-broadcast General Conference and it is very common for our patriarchal leaders to break down in tears! To me, this is just another testament of the power of the Spirit and the humility of the men that lead our church. They become so overwhelmed with love and gratitude that their emotions take over, and they can’t deny the Spirit! It’s that strong. It will bring anyone to their knees. It’s a great thing!

I have realized that as my faith in the gospel grows stronger, I find myself questioning the roles of women within the Church less and less. It is important to acknowledge that the Church and society play by different rules. When you truly believe that the Church is led and directed by Jesus Christ, your desire to question its precepts dwindles away.

You were recently called to be the Relief Society president of your ward. What has been your reaction to that new calling?

When the bishop initially extended the calling to me in his office, I sat there for what seemed a long moment of silence, allowing myself to process what he was saying. I was immediately overwhelmed–not overwhelmed with the responsibility that comes with the calling, but overwhelmed with a feeling of peace and love, I had never felt closer to my Heavenly Father. The first words out of my mouth were, “Are you sure you want ME?” I quickly became emotional because I had never thought of myself as being worthy or even qualified to serve in that role; in my mind, that calling was reserved for the “other” RS ladies, the ones I grew up with in Utah. The bishop’s response was very comforting as he replied, “Yes, you. The Lord does see you in that light and He wants you to serve.”

Initially, I found it rather ironic actually that I would be called to serve in the RS, because growing up in Utah, I used to actually make fun of the RS ladies–wearing their Christmas sweaters, always knitting something, swapping Jell-O salad and funeral potatoes recipes. I never really felt like I fit into that mold. But, over the years I have grown to love the women in RS as I admire the manner in which they raise their children, foster sincere and loyal friendships with each other and their husbands, adhere to the needs of our communities, pursue successful careers outside of the home, and even serve in our armed forces. The women in RS have quickly become living examples in my life of the type of woman that I want to be. So, in many ways, this calling is a true testament to me of how much the women in RS have contributed to my own personal and spiritual growth over the years.

For me to be given the opportunity to serve and lead this organization in our ward is a true honor and blessing in my life. I consider it to be my greatest accomplishment next to raising my daughter. As I think back now to my young adulthood years when I was graduating from high school and going off to college and really starting to think about what my career goals were going to be, I realize that I always had the desire to serve women. Most of the women I grew up around filled very traditional female roles. Many of them were full-time moms, and if they worked outside of the home it was a part-time job in administration, education, or healthcare. Of course I’m generalizing, but this is the image I remember. Growing up surrounded by that image of women, I always felt like I saw an even greater potential and role for women, especially women of color, and I wanted to inspire and empower women to become leaders not just in their homes, but in society as well. I wasn’t sure in what capacity or to what extent I was going to do this, but I was always so inspired by the women in my life that I wanted to pay that forward in some way.

When I think about what makes a great leader I think of personal and spiritual strength, perseverance, humility, gratitude, high self-worth, low ego, and sincere concern for others. I’ve been blessed because pretty much all of the women who have inspired my life have possessed these qualities. In many ways I feel like women are any society’s greatest asset, and in many ways today they remain an untapped resource that has yet to be unleashed and utilized to its fullest potential. One of the significant differences I see between the Church organization and our secular societies at large is that the Church has been tapping into this invaluable resource called “women” since its inception, and the dynamic impact of women is being carried out through the Relief Society. The Relief Society is the vehicle through which the power of women is being utilized in the latter days to bring forth the gospel of Jesus Christ to all the world. I love that our church views men and women as equal partners walking side by side. We may each serve in different roles, but both are equally important and equally valued in the eyes of the Lord.

As a child, when you go off to college and try to create a so-called “successful” life for yourself, eventually you come to the realization that all you really want to do is make your parents proud. You want to be able to call home and report that you accomplished  “something great.” We’ve lived in D.C. for over seven years now and knowing all of the sacrifices that my parents have made in order for me to be here, not a day goes by when I don’t pray that this will be the day that I can call home to report on my “something great.” Although I have had many tremendous accomplishments during my tenure in Washington, I still felt like I hadn’t reached that pinnacle of success I was striving for, but when I received this calling I knew immediately that this was it! This was my “something great!” The opportunity that I was waiting for, the opportunity the Lord had been preparing me for, where I could do the work I’ve always had the desire to do and make both my earthly and heavenly parents proud. I can’t think of a better way to inspire and empower women or a greater mission than tending to the temporal and spiritual welfare of our brothers and sisters while spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ.

This calling is confirmation to me that the Lord does know and love each and every one of us individually. He knows what’s in our hearts. He hears our prayers. And, He will never leave us under any circumstances–even when we don’t choose to follow Him. My testimony has never been stronger and it is because of the trials I have faced that have brought me closer to our Savior. It is because of opportunities like this that I have had to serve in the Lord’s church. It is because of the examples of the women in RS and the worthy priesthood holders that lead our church who have reconfirmed to me time and time again that this church is true. “Many are called, but few are chosen.” It is up to each and every one of us whether or not we become one of God’s chosen. For this opportunity I am indeed grateful and pray that I will serve in a way that is pleasing to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  Amen.

At A Glance

Sui Lang Panoke

Location: Washington D.C.

Age:

Marital status: Single

Occupation: Founder of Women Politics Media

Schools Attended: BYU, University of Utah, American University

Languages Spoken at Home: English

Interview by Neylan McBaine. Photos used with permission.

As the composer and lyricist of “Nephi’s Courage,” Lisa Hansen’s influence is felt in Primaries across the Church. But it is her work as the leader of a gay choir in Utah County that now occupies much of Lisa’s time. As a Marriage and Family Therapy graduate student at BYU, Lisa is a counselor for gay LDS youth and the author of a curriculum for LDS families of gay youth.

You’re a grandmother and yet you have gone back to school, working on your PhD in Marriage and Family Therapy. How did you decide that you wanted to go back to school?

Yes, I have seven grandkids. I’ve always known that I wanted to do something to help couples. Relationships seem to be more difficult than ever to maintain and I worked in a law office for 20 years, watching relationships fall apart, and that gave me even more motivation.

I finished my bachelor’s degree when I was eight months pregnant with child number six. I took a hiatus from school until child number seven, my youngest, was in college. I applied for master’s programs, but I think it took a little convincing to let schools know that someone over fifty who hadn’t been in school for ages could do a master’s degree program. I went to BYU and got my master’s in the marriage and family therapy program.

Has it been hard to study as an older person?

I study differently than I did when I was younger. I find it hard to study late at night, so I basically study all the time. When I wake up I study a little bit, and study some more and if I don’t remember things, I say oh well, and I just keep going.

I still have my master’s thesis to finish off before I can start the PhD program. My thesis is on the effect of children’s attachment to parents, especially when the parents have conflict. My research is showing that the more attached children are to their fathers, the less deleterious the effects when there is conflict in the marriage. Children tend not to do well when there’s parental conflict, but if they have a lot of bonding and affection, they tend not to do as poorly. It seems to be that the fathers that have the more protective influence.

For my PhD, I am interested in looking at women on missions and the attitude of mission presidents towards sister missionaries. I want to see if there is a link between the physical and mental outlook of women on missions and the attitudes of presidents towards sister missionaries. Some sisters do well and some are more likely to come home early. Some missions organize districts of sisters and some sisters feel subordinate to male missionaries. Some treat them as equals; in fact, there are missions where a sister and an elder both assist the mission president. Now that women can serve at a younger age, there will be many more women serving, which will likely change some of the assumptions about women missionaries, and will likely affect the way they are viewed by men and women alike. I suspect we will see beneficial change as we become more aware of the effects of mission service on a larger population of women.

You act as a counselor on the Brigham Young University campus for gay youth. What motivated you to use your psychology skills in this way?

I have always felt a resonance, an empathy, a sense of what it’s like not to belong when you want to belong so desperately. Being aware of my own intense psychological states growing up often made me feel separate from other people. And then psychological separation creates a labyrinthine world that stretches out the days and minutes of growing up into a constant winding inward, ending up feeling essentially inadequate. I began suspecting that gay and lesbian members of the church felt the same way.

It just seems to make sense to me: that young people who grow up in the Church want what has always been promised to them, which is that sense of belonging. If they have been faithful, they’ve been promised the kind of relationship and family interaction that leads to eternal hope: the plan of happiness. But it seems that it is only available to members of the church if you can manage to be straight. And I feel deeply for those young people who try so hard to be straight and then eventually come to an understanding that it isn’t going to work well for them. I know for some who have started out with some gay feelings, they find ways they can still have a marriage relationship that fits in with the gospel plan. And I don’t mean to detract from that at all, because I’m glad for those who have been able to make that work; I’m happy their dreams are coming true. But I believe there is a significant number of young people who find they are not able to do that with integrity. And then they feel that that they cannot participate fully in what the Church teaches and offers, because they feel like an abomination even if they maintain celibacy and are faithful to what they have believed.

In what ways have you felt the Lord lead you down this path of helping gay LDS youth?

Like most of us, gay and lesbian people surround me. Their desire for community touches me. Their desire to be in community with me is an honor. I have watched many young people in my neighborhood grow up and have felt pain because what they have to offer has been dismissed because it was gay, didn’t fit, was feared, and finally rejected. These have been some of my favorite people with some of the tenderest souls who, in order to survive and thrive had to move away from my community (both figuratively and literally). And heaven knows, if each of us gave of ourselves to be supportive emotionally and spiritually to the people we know who are struggling to belong, that would be a great work.

I’m not sure how long ago it was that I was just sitting at a desk and suddenly the idea popped in my mind, “Why not start a choir for gay people in Utah County?” There is not much here for you to participate in if you’re gay without feeling like you’re separating yourself in a way that might make others raise an eyebrow and suspect you mean to be in everyone else’s face as a gay person. So I organized a choir. I think some people do raise their eyebrows at the choir, but we sing uplifting music and spiritual music. I think the very first song we sang was Lead Kindly Light? And this past summer we sang “I’m Trying to Be Like Jesus,” as well as a repertoire of other fun songs. The choir means to be uplifting, in both a social and a spiritual way.

Lisa leading her choir

Tell me about your involvement in the Understanding Same-Gender Attraction group at BYU.

The Understanding Same-Gender Attraction group has been meeting for about three years, and I just became involved with it about two years ago. Anyone can get involved simply by attending their Thursday night meetings. Gay, lesbian, and supportive straight people are welcome.They don’t advertise on campus, but if you look for the group online you can find it, and it’s fully supported by the administration. USGA’s goal is to “strengthen families and the BYU community by providing a place for open, respectful discussions on the topic of same-gender attraction.” Those who know about it and attend it seem to feel that it is helping.

As part of my master’s work, I interned in the Women’s Services Office—where we mostly saw women who dropped in for counseling—and at the Comprehensive Clinic, where I saw both men and women and worked on marriage and family issues. As a counselor on the BYU campus, I counseled a fair number of gay students whose campus experiences were made considerably happier by knowing about the USGA group. I also know of people who did not know about it and felt they had to leave campus because they didn’t feel like they belonged and could find no supportive community. So it’s performing an important, if unsung, service.

The gay and lesbian clients I’ve worked with did not list being gay or lesbian as the reason they were seeking counseling, so my seeing them was not the result of any particular therapeutic assignment. Silence seems to still be the rule of survival for many gay and lesbian young people, particularly those who are struggling to conform to the straight plan of happiness. But since the plan of happiness for gay and lesbian members seems out of reach in this life, they are likely to experience levels of depression and anxiety that are greater than the general public. We may be more likely to see them in counseling situations, particularly when they have a faith that motivates them to belong among the saints.

Are the gay people you counsel able to find happiness in the gospel without going the direction of marriage and family?

I believe in the future that there will be a wave of gay members who are able to maintain activity. But, right now, as soon as young men feel they are gay or have these strong feelings, they are not welcomingly talked about in a ward setting. I still regularly hear trivializing and demeaning comments about gays and lesbians in church that embarrass me, including the “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” quip so often, I wonder if some children think it’s scripture. To realize that you have homosexual feelings and that you are not really wanted and valued is a tough row to hoe. To find some kind of happiness, they have to negate part of themselves—church or sexuality—and that’s hard for mental health. Those who faithfully attend but feel a stigma at church may be opening themselves to anxiety and depression unless they have tremendous support.

What do I do in counseling with gay and lesbian young people?  The guiding principle is that I encourage them to find out what God wants them to do. I encourage them to look at the consequences (internal and external) of their choices, and ask how they feel about them. Choosing to find new parts of the self in a spiritual community with covenants and eternal promises, while leaving other parts of the old self behind, can be freeing and empowering, but it can also be devastating. Choosing to leave old spiritual parts of the self behind to come into new spirituality can move people in different directions.

At BYU, I can use the young person’s relationship with God as a beacon toward the kind of life the young person’s best self most dreams of: a life of connection and service and community. That has taken different pathways for different clients. There are no easy answers.

Lisa at a foster daughter's graduation

Currently, in the Church, Ty Mansfield is the best example we have of someone who has experienced homosexual feelings and is married and who has found a place of peace with this. He is working with the North Star organization, a support organization for LDS individuals and families with same-sex attraction, to get information to those who may follow in his footsteps and find some success. He has a new book out, a compilation of essays that are meant to help people in that situation. It is published by Deseret Book and called Voices of Hope. His first book is In Quiet Desperation. Both books offer a great deal of hope.

How do you see the families of gay members working together to support them?

As part of my work at BYU, I created a family support group curriculum. But so far, we have had no takers. We advertized at BYU and through various stake presidencies. I am guessing that this is private enough and tender enough that families are reluctant to talk openly about what is going on with their child and how they feel about it, especially with strangers.

Families are where we need to do the most work. A number of parents still believe that you can encourage your homosexually-tended child to be more heterosexually attracted by engaging in certain behaviors. They say things like, “Don’t hang out with your gay friends. Don’t research being gay on the Internet.” The Family Acceptance Project at San Francisco University has reported on a longitudinal study which found that gay and lesbian youth whose parents tried to do that actually felt rejected by their parents, and that kind of rejection had a significant and measurable effect on their suicide and depression rates and their likelihood of using drugs. Behaviors that some parents think will help their child end up increasing the risk of awful outcomes. I hope eventually that families become involved in the family support group curriculum.

If you could suggest any helps for families, what would they be?

There are two good organizations, the PFLAG (Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbian and Gays) and then there is LDS Family Fellowship, an LDS organization supporting families who have gay members. The thrust of both programs is to love and not reject your child, which of course would contribute to lowering suicide rates.

There needs to be greater love and acceptance within our ward families, too. I know of families that have chosen to be accepting, and yet going to church is still a painful experience for them and for their child, increasing the child’s self-loathing. It’s a common experience for kids to say, “It’s either suicide or I have to quit going to church, I am so loathsome to the Lord they want me to believe in.”

Lisa and her husband

Is this topic addressed in the curriculum that you helped produce?

What happens at church and the experiences of young people at church are an important discussion in the curriculum. Young people who believe their families understand them and defend them are more likely to keep attending church. But families are trying to process new information about their child against the backdrop of a judgmental and non-accepting society. Trying to see things from the child’s point of view may be difficult because we are so used to seeing homosexuality from the point of view of being temple-worthy people. Every active LDS parent’s hope—it’s in every baby blessing—is that the child go to the temple some day. And if your child is gay, that goal seems at risk.

What are your reactions to the Church’s new website, mormonsandgays.com?

I’m delighted first of all that official talk about this topic addresses people as lesbians and gays, and not just people suffering from same-sex attraction. The terms “gay” and “lesbian” are associated with less depression and anxiety. I am also delighted that the website makes the subject less taboo for open discussion. Perhaps we can move the discussion out of the primary domains of the bishop’s office and the corners of the meetinghouse and into the Relief Society, quorum and Young Men and Women’s meetings. We need to welcome and value our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, and I think the website helps us start to do that. I also hope for much more understanding than is currently available, even on the website. The mental health of our gay and lesbian young people is in our power to do something about. We can reduce the suicides that plague this population.

Tell me one more interesting contribution you have made.

Well, my sister told me I had to share this in this interview: My husband and I wrote the primary song, “Nephi’s Courage”–“I will go, I will do…” We wrote the music and lyrics together. He played the piano a lot while the kids were growing up. If Dad thinks being musical is cool, then kids seem to engage in it more often. Both my experience and my academic research have shown me the kids are more likely to think it is wonderful when Dad is involved.

At A Glance

Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen

Location: Payson, UT

Age: 54

Marital status: Married 35 years to Wilford (Bill) Hansen

Children: 1) Mike, 34; 2) BJ, 32; 3) Amelie, 30; 4) Maggie, 27; 5) Melanie, 25; 6) Nels, 22; 7) Rachel, 20; 8 ) F.E. Student Serena, 32; 9) F.E. Student Chu Man-Chi; 21; 10) Foster Daughter Meisha, 18; 7 grandchildren

Occupation: Legal Secretary; Ph.D. candidate, BYU Marriage and Family Therapy

Schools Attended: M.S. BYU, 2012, Marriage and Family Therapy; B.S. BYU, 1990 (pregnant
with child #6 at graduation); Broad Ripple High School in Indianapolis (where alumnus David
Letterman is still legendary for some actions that actually happened and some that are surely
rumors)

Languages Spoken at Home: English

Favorite Hymn: “Lord, We Come Before Thee Now” (Hymns #162)

Married to Brandon Flowers, the frontman of an internationally-known rock band, Tana and her husband spend much of their time apart. To combat the common consequences of a public career, mother their three boisterous boys, and maintain intimacy in her marriage, Tana builds upon the skills she learned during her conversion to the gospel nine years ago by asking the Lord and listening to the Spirit for answers to the questions in her everyday life.

 Your husband grew up in an LDS family. What was his influence on your conversion and what was your conversion experience like?

I’m not going to give him too much credit. Brandon, when we met, was 20 and I was 20. He wasn’t church-going. It’s really weird to talk about how I found the church, because it’s almost like it found me in a way. Being around Brandon’s family, I knew they were Mormon, but nobody was in my face about it. I didn’t feel like there was anything wrong with not being LDS. Brandon was in a band with The Killers’ guitarist when we met. Their band started moving along, and we started to drift apart a bit. We were still dating when I had this moment when I was driving and I just heard a voice say, “Read the Book of Mormon.” Which was a weird thing, because I wasn’t even thinking about that. But I felt a rush, like this was a good idea. It felt like that was the right thing to do, like, this is a chance—take it. So that night, I asked Brandon’s mom for a Book of Mormon. She gave me a Book of Mormon that Brandon’s dad meant to give to someone else, so it had his testimony in it, which was interesting to read. So I started reading the Book of Mormon, and I was just like, this is it. I’m so thankful to be a convert because the emotions I get from the Book of Mormon and the experiences I have are so new. I feel like in my experience with the church, we are all individuals, and that is one of the things I believe most strongly. Heavenly Father knew how to get to me, and He just gave me that chance.

I feel so weird talking about my conversion because it doesn’t always make sense. Brandon will tell you, I was the furthest thing away from a Mormon; it was almost like dating me was a rebellion against everything he was taught growing up. I grew up with a crazy family. When I met Brandon and his family I thought, you have parents and brothers and sisters who spend time together? It was all new. The Church was new. Everything was new

So in raising your kids, do you feel like you have good examples? How do you navigate through parenting?

I couldn’t imagine being a mom without the Church. I can’t see it. Before I was a member of the Church, I had no intention of having children. I hadn’t seen families work out yet. There’s a John Bytheway talk I like to listen to and it says that you have the ability to change things for generations. And I just hope I do that for my kids. So it’s a lot of prayer and reading. Being a mom is such a weird blessing because it’s a lot of mini-trials throughout the day. It’s like, am I going to get mad about this or this? But at the same time, I can’t imagine having as much growth as a person without being a mom—spiritually and growing up. It gives me confidence, too. I have that peace of being happy with myself, being happy with my choices, being happy with who I am because of the Church. Motherhood isn’t really something I need to navigate because if I stay on my path, I feel comfortable.

How do you feel like you learn your path? What feelings do you feel when you know you are on the right path?

I just feel comfortable. I feel happy, I feel settled. I tend to be an anxious person, so when I feel anxious, I know that I need to fix something. So I ask Heavenly Father what it is that needs to be fixed, and I go through everything it could possibly be. It could be something simple, like it’s a pain to wash my face upstairs in the morning because the kids are awake—let’s just figure it out. So I’ll wash my face downstairs. I’m always trying to figure out how to make my actions easier and better. I just feel weird being so blessed to be at a point in my life where I can finally feel peace and feel calm and not have such chaos around me.

So when you do feel anxious or discouraged, what do you find helps you?

Oh, it’s hard. Sometimes, I’ll have a real problem with anxiety. It’s kind of tough because it’s medical and I have the symptoms. It’s hard to deal with. In the past I would go out for a run by myself, but I don’t have babysitters that will come and watch the kids that early in the morning. I always fall back on asking for answers in my prayers. One of my questions is: Do I need to take medicine right now or do I not need to take medicine right now to get through this?

Artwork by son Ammon

After I had Henry, I kind of went into a dip and got depressed. It was hard. It has to be something about having three kids in such a short amount of time. I probably did something; I probably tripped some wire and shorted a fuse in my brain somewhere! So I was having a really hard time struggling with that because I’m typically a happy, outgoing person. And then when I feel like that part of me is dimming, I get stressed, because I think, wait, that’s not who I am and I can’t feel like who I am right now because I’m having these symptoms. So after having Henry, I prayed about it. I always feel like my answers to my prayers zigzag: I get taken around a loop before I accept something that’s a little more out there than I would initially accept. So my loop was, I went to the doctor and got medicine, even though I don’t like being on the medicine because part of me feels like I’m giving something up. So I thought, there has to be some other way. I started looking at holistic solutions and herbal medications, so now I take herbal medicines and drink herbal teas. It works better for me. Heavenly Father knew I wasn’t going to go into an herbal store and say, “I’m here!” So he gave me the opportunity to find the answer for myself, which led me to take another risk. It’s so amazing the direction things go. So basically, to handle my anxiety, I ask questions and I just get led around and I try to listen.

With your family apart a lot of the time, how do you maintain unity?

That is hard. For instance, Ammon made a present today and it has Brandon’s picture on it, and Henry sometimes freaks out and wants his dad. Ammon has a really hard time—he’s anxious too—so he had a hard time at school when it started. He had separation issues. I’ll bring up Brandon’s absence myself to the kids and say, “I miss Daddy right now.” So I just try to let them know it’s okay to feel what they feel and to say it. It’s hard, but at the same time, I can’t complain. My husband has a good job. I think everybody has those challenges with jobs and other demands. It’s just something we all deal with. And I’ve been doing it for so long—being away from him — so it’s not really that big of a deal anymore. My personality does well with some time apart from my husband. Plus, I still get butterflies when I’m around my husband, which is great!

So what helps you deal with the distance in your marriage?

I don’t really deal with the outside world. I don’t ever go on the computer.  I don’t have a Facebook account; my husband and I are adamant about no Facebook. I have friendships, but I don’t seek friendships online. My husband is concerned about privacy with his work, of course, but I know he’s concerned for us too. So we just work on the relationships we already have more than seeking others. We have a really close circle of people around us. We’re not popular, so that helps our marriage. It’s more intimate for us. We don’t have friendships that take time from each other. Also, if my husband were not an active member of the Church, I would not be married to him. I just couldn’t do it, because I would not be married to a guy in a band on the road unless I knew what he believed in, and he stood his ground. I think having trust in my husband and his faith and knowing how strong his faith is definitely helps. I never feel preoccupied about what he is or is not doing. Heavenly Father blesses women. We have sensors and we know what’s going on. Brandon and I both work hard for our family and that’s our job.

Is there an experience you fall back on when you are in need of more faith?

When I was little, I had experiences growing up when I was really, really frightened and I remember feeling comforted, like I was going to be okay. I remember just being little and feeling that peace and the calmness. There were scary situations. My mom had a really abusive husband. Now when I think about it, I can’t believe I wasn’t more terrified of these things. That feeling that I was going to be okay and I wasn’t going to be hurt is a testimony to me that when you need it, Heavenly Father will speak to you. You’ll hear something. I just listen to little things. I listen and I’m always trying to hear. Listening has always been kind of natural to me in a weird way but now that I’m a member of the Church, I understand where that comes from. All along I’ve had help and I’ve had Heavenly Father’s love with me.

At A Glance

Tana Flowers

Location: Las Vegas, NV

Marital status: Married

Occupation: Mother

Children: Ammon (5), Gunnar (3), and Henry (1)

Interview by Jessica Tingey Hansen.

First married at age 18, Kimberly White emerged from an abusive marriage to earn a degree from BYU in philosophy and marry in the temple. She is the mother of five children, one of whom was stillborn, and currently lives in New York City. She shares her thoughts on the unfinished stories of women who struggle with suffering children, the death of a loved one or trials of every kind.

I was raised in the church. I have seven brothers and sisters. Many things about my upbringing were wonderful, and yet not everything was wonderful. There was a constant background noise of never knowing when I was going to be hurt or insulted or ridiculed because of family dynamics.

In my early life I had a number of times when I would feel overwhelmed by the sad part of my life, frustrated and helpless and very, very lonely. It wasn’t obvious outside the family that there was a problem. Nobody knew that it was rough. But I felt like everything was horrible, and I knelt down and said a prayer and He answered me, as a young child, with comfort and assurance that He was there and He was watching over me.

Then I became a teenager. The teenage years are complicated and you get stupid.  I ended up becoming bitter at my situation and I left the Church and I left my home. I ended up married to a person just like the mean people already in my life. It’s a cliché. I was continuing to play out those patterns of abuse.

I became pregnant with my oldest daughter at 18. She was born when I was 19, so I was very young. When I was about 7 months pregnant, I was in a car accident. I started going into labor and at the hospital they told me that if I delivered, the baby probably wouldn’t survive so they were going to try to stop the labor, which they ultimately were able to do.

But I was very scared. As I look back now with the eyes of an adult, it’s clear to me that the doctor who came into the ER to care for me was respectful and comforting and behaving the way a professional doctor should behave to a young mother in a panic. I really appreciated him, but my husband at the time decided that he was flirting with me, and he became so angry he wouldn’t let that doctor come back into the room and actually decided that he wasn’t going to let any male doctors anywhere near me. But at the same time, he wouldn’t himself take responsibility and tell the nurses and doctors, “I’m mad. Don’t let the doctor come back in.” He made me tell the nurse that I didn’t want the doctor to come back in, that I didn’t want to see a man. This is the sort of life I was living. I was afraid all the time. I was blamed for things that were not my fault.

The baby was born a few months later. That day my husband was mad at me for a number of things, so it was a very unpleasant experience having the baby. After she was born, my husband went home to take a nap, and there I was in the hospital, nineteen years old and alone with this baby that I didn’t know what to do with. I thought, “How did this become my life? I’m a smart person! I could have done other things!” It was awful.

For the first time in a long time, I remembered those experiences I had when I was young where I prayed and felt comforted, so I started to say a little prayer, asking God to help me out, and my prayer was interrupted. I felt or heard a voice, not a happy voice, but a stern voice, telling me, “This is not your daughter. This is my daughter. And you are in no position to take care of her.” And I realized that it was true. I was now responsible for another human being, one of Heavenly Father’s children, and I wasn’t in a situation where I was able to give her what she needed. I wasn’t happy. I wasn’t living the gospel. I felt the full force of the decisions I had made. I felt what it meant not just to my life but to hers that I had chosen to become bitter about the problems in my life and had stopped turning to the Lord for help. This is what I’d ended up with.

That was it. In a matter of weeks, I left my husband and moved back home.

So quickly!

It’s a hard thing to do when you’re caught up in a relationship like that–it’s hard to get out of. But I just couldn’t forget that I was responsible for a human being and that I needed to get it right.

The divorce itself was difficult. My parents were very, very supportive of me. Everything they could think of to help me out, they did it. But, they didn’t have unlimited funds and they were in the process of moving an entire household across the country. A friend of a friend handled my legal work pro bono. On the other hand, my ex had a team of 4 lawyers. It was ridiculous. He wanted to take custody of this small child whom I knew wouldn’t be safe with him. It was a terribly lonely and frustrating experience.

This was one of the first times where it became clear to me that the goodness and support of other people is so important when we’re experiencing trials. There are many times in my life where the Lord spoke to me and comforted me directly. But this was a time when the Lord mostly spoke to me and did His comforting through other people.

My old Young Women’s leaders were so nonjudgmental. I had left the Church in a big dramatic show and then I’m back in two years divorced with a baby. Nobody said a word of criticism. It was just, “It’s so wonderful to see you here again.” I had been so afraid when I was going back to Church that people would treat me as the bad seed. But nobody did. The kindness and consideration of the people who were in my parents’ lives, and in my life, so blessed me.

Kim with her daughter

I was given custody of my daughter. My husband was granted visitation initially and it went very, very badly. The divorce dragged on for a couple of years. All I could do was wait around for the legal system. Finally, he lost all of his parental rights. It was very hard, but I never lost the sense that I was responsible for this human being, that she was Heavenly Father’s child and not my own. It was about what I needed to do for this child of God.

Had you gone to college before she was born?

I had not. I didn’t even graduate from high school. After she was born, I took the GED and enrolled at a community college. I was able to transfer to BYU after a while. And so I went through BYU as a young single parent.

My parents had moved to Salt Lake City. At first I just commuted to BYU. But I didn’t want to be the kid who got in trouble and moved back home and grandma raised her daughter. I didn’t feel like that was what Heavenly Father had in mind. I wanted to do it as much as possible on our own. I had to take out student loans, but we got our own apartment in Provo. A horrible, tiny, dark basement apartment. She was young enough she didn’t care and I figured, “Well, at least I’m going to college.”

I was able to pay for some daycare and I was able to take her to some classes with me. When those options were exhausted, my brother, who was a freshman, and his six pre-mission roommates in Helaman Halls would take this two year old girl. They would watch her for 6 hours or however long I needed. They were amazing babysitters. There aren’t a lot of nineteen year old boys who just think it’s cute and funny that they’re babysitting two or three times a week. And these guys did. It was a wonderful blessing. So I was able to make it work all of those years at BYU, working and going to school full-time. I eventually got a scholarship that helped, too.

It must have been a very small demographic, being a single mother at BYU.

Oh my goodness, yes. I loved BYU. It was a great place to be, but I had no peers. There is actually a single parent group at BYU, but it was mostly women whose husbands had left them after 25 years. I admired those women, but it was a very different situation than mine. I never met one other young single parent. I had friends, and I even had friends with kids, but they were all married. Having a social life was awkward.

My parents were always supportive of my single parenting. There were times when we were in the habit of their having my daughter every Friday night through Saturday so I could work or finish papers or do things that were hard to do otherwise. It couldn’t have been done without their support. I feel like I was really lucky to have so much support. But at the same time you can’t get enough support to make single parenting easy. You can’t get enough support to make being alone and without peers easy.

What did you study at BYU?

I studied philosophy. Not a very practical choice. But it’s my personality. I took classes about some of the more obscure points of doctrine. It was an amazing thing to study.

Philosophy brought into focus—though it didn’t solve—two big issues I had to sort through. One was the problem of evil. Life can be bad! And it’s not your fault. How does that mix in with there being a God? If you’re put in a family with an abusive person, you didn’t do anything to deserve it and yet you have the consequences your whole life. My daughter didn’t do anything wrong, yet she had some traumatic experiences in her early life with her visitation and now she was being raised by a single mom who couldn’t be there for her. I remember one time having to ask her daycare teacher what she thought she’d like for Christmas because I wasn’t sure. That’s terrible! It was my fault, not her fault.

The other issue was, what does it mean that the Lord had comforted me in my childhood and then I left Him? What kind of standing had that left me? Do you lose your salvation entirely if you do that? I knew there was a God. I knew that He cared for me. And yet I had left. What does that mean?

I felt that my behavior had probably disqualified from the highest levels of heaven, but I decided that would be fine. I felt the love of the Lord, and I was so grateful for whatever the Lord was willing to give me. I could be a ministering angel. I had no problem with that.

But then I started to think, as part of raising my daughter, I wanted to go to the temple, like an adult. When I went to the temple, I was taken totally by surprise. To be told that my sins were forgiven struck me so powerfully in my heart. Forgiven means forgiven. You don’t disqualify yourself. This is what life is for. Everybody messes up. I feel like I hadn’t understood what the Lord’s forgiveness meant until I was in the temple

It must have changed your view of yourself.

It really did. I’m not a person who could have been a good person and then blew it. A person who can be a great person can be a great person at any point. You never blow it! I feel like I had never quite understood the Lord before. Not just to know that for me the possibilities were still endless, which is a wonderful thing, but to know that the kind of God I’m dealing with is one who doesn’t keep score! He doesn’t say, “She’s pretty good, but remember when she was 18? She knew better.” He’s not doing that. He’s saying, “Repent, and we’ll get you right back like it never happened.” He’s not holding on, so we don’t need to, for ourselves or for other people. Among my biggest regrets in life is that I hadn’t gone to the temple earlier. I felt a powerful difference in my life afterwards.

It’s an inspiring story!

The inspiring stories we tell in Church, they’re all true. There is no miracle the Lord can’t perform, He is full of mercy. But often, telling things in the form of stories leads to this idea that if you’re keeping the commandments and if you’re a good person, everything wraps itself up neatly. Life doesn’t have the structure of a story. It just keeps going on and on, like a movie where they keep making too many sequels.

I thought at the time—this was so naïve—that my experience with the temple was so powerful that I would never do anything wrong again. Why would I ever go a day without reading my scriptures? And of course that’s not how we are. Life is less pretty than that. I’m still forgetting to read my scripture. Surely the Lord has done everything He needs to do to convince me that this is important, and I still forget.

I feel like I want to talk to you about some of the things that have happened recently because they have had such an impact on my life. I feel like it would be unfair to leave them out.

So, thinking of the notion of stories, here’s mine: I had a difficult home life and then a crazy abusive husband, and single parented for all these years and finally, just before I finished at BYU, I met this wonderful man and married him. My husband adopted my daughter, and we had other children and we had a close, splendid family, and we all lived happily ever after. That’s a lovely end to the story, if that were the end. Those things did happen, but it wasn’t the end. Important things have happened since then.

My husband and I went to England for him to get a master’s degree a number of years ago. I was pregnant with my fourth child, our third biological child together. I cannot tell you how much it felt to me like I was living out the happy ending of a story in the Ensign: I went to the temple and I got married and everything was wonderful.  I had a wonderful husband, and two adorable little boys. Our oldest daughter loved her dad and was growing up so big and pretty. I was having another baby and we were living in England surrounded by wonderful people. I felt so happy and so blessed.

One day my husband came home from Church and said, “We had an elder’s quorum lesson today and it really struck me. The teacher said, ‘Bad times will come to everyone, and it’s hard to build up the Spirit when you’re struggling and suffering. When things are going well for you, you should devote time to the Spirit and build up reserves so when the bad times come, you have a lot to draw on instead of having to pick that moment to start reading your scriptures or start praying.’” We were both really struck by that idea because everything was so perfect in our lives. We had the time and energy, so we felt inspired to start getting up about half an hour earlier every morning to read scriptures together, which was lovely.

Right at the end of this pregnancy—I was a full forty weeks—I happened to have a regular check-up.  My boys loved going to the doctor, loved listening to the baby’s heartbeat. I chatted with the doctor, and my little boy climbed up on the table. He said, “I want to heaw the heawt.”

After a minute, the doctor said, “Why don’t you get down, honey. We’re not going to do that today.” Because there wasn’t one. There I was in the doctor’s office with two boys and no heartbeat.

It was very rough. The worst part of things like that, seriously, is that you don’t get to just respond emotionally. You don’t get to break down and cry. Because there are logistics that you have to work out. Someone has to reach your husband. Someone has to take care of the boys. Someone has to pick Caitlyn up from school. All of these mundane, earthly things that have to be dealt with.

I was very lucky. I’d just run into my neighbor so I knew she was home and wanted my boys to come over. So that was taken care of. I was able to reach my husband easily. I had a friend with a car so we could get to the hospital. So those things got worked out easily. But still, when tragedy drops into your life, you should be able to just faint like in the movies. But no, you have to work out all these little steps. It’s insulting. The whole world is falling apart and I have to find phone numbers and make phone calls.

I had called my husband.  I had dropped off my boys. I was in my house alone, sitting on the ground with my phone, waiting for my husband to come, waiting for the situation to resolve itself somehow. I remember having this distinct sense that since I hadn’t broken down and cried or responded emotionally yet, I was completely capable of going one of two directions. I could say, “This is not fair. The Lord has betrayed me. I didn’t deserve this.” And I would be fully justified. No one would blame me. That way was fully open to me.

But next to this there was an option that I could say, “I know the Lord and I trust him and I’m just going to bow my head and do this thing that He apparently has called me to do.” I decided that, while I might be justified in being angry and upset, there was nothing to be gained in that. It wasn’t clear to me how there could possibly be any purpose in losing a child, and in losing a child in this way. But I decided I was just going to give the Lord a chance to show me that it was OK.

And so, that’s what I did. I bowed my head and went to the hospital. They did the ultrasound. The child was dead. We hadn’t even known if it was a boy or a girl. With this sort of situation, you want to have a C-section immediately, but they only do C-sections when either the child’s or the mother’s life or health is at risk. When the child has died, the operation is a serious risk to the mother so you just have to wait and deliver the child in the normal way.

We were back in the hospital only about 24 hours later. It was a very difficult delivery. If the baby had lived two days longer, she would have just been delivered alive, without any other problems. It turns out there was a knot in the umbilical cord. Which is almost never a problem, but in this case, for some reason it got pulled tight, and cut off.

One of the really difficult things about having a stillborn baby is that church doctrine does not tell us anything about the status of unborn children. I know people walking around today who were delivered earlier than my daughter. They are alive! People I know who lost infants find great comfort in the idea that their baby got a body, that they got to see him, that he served his purpose. I, on the other hand, can’t get any doctrinal solace because doctrine doesn’t say what the rules are for a child who dies before he’s born. So in addition to the trial of losing a child, we couldn’t draw on gospel comfort because the doctrine isn’t there. I suppose that’s something I could have become very angry about.

But I decided not to get angry. Nobody said church doctrine tells us everything that is true. We have prayer and we have the Spirit when doctrine doesn’t answer our questions. It gave me comfort to know that just because something isn’t answered for the entire church, that doesn’t mean it can’t be answered for me and my husband. We can get revelation directly. Just because I can’t say to anyone else, “The spirit enters the body before birth,” I know what the Spirit told me. It would be nice to know that everyone in my religion agreed with me, but it’s not necessary.

When something like that happens, you spend years having up days and down days. As much as I think the Spirit confirmed to me that this fully-gestated 7 ½ pound human female was a real person with a real spirit who would be resurrected and saved like everyone else, other than having that assurance, I never, ever from the Spirit or from any other source got any inkling or indication or even foggy idea of what sort of purpose this might serve. It doesn’t make any sense. And frankly, if you gave me the reason, I probably wouldn’t like it. But, as it became clear that there just wasn’t going to be a reason given for this one, my husband and I decided that if the Lord was giving us a trial that wasn’t going to have an explanation, that it was up to us to find a way to get a benefit.

So we used this as an opportunity to think about things we wanted to change in our family, things we wanted to do in our lives, things we wanted to repent of, that we’d never been able to fix before. It has turned into one of the great blessings of my life to have made the decision to do that. When I think of Elizabeth, even though we never met her, I can say, “This is the positive impact she had on my life,” because of the things that we chose to do.

That attitude, that approach, has proven so useful in smaller trials: the trouble finding a job, someone’s having trouble at school, I don’t like my calling. It has given me the option in my own heart and my own mind to say, “OK, this is bad, but what can I pull out of it? What can I do in response to it that’s going to be a good thing?” It’s amazing, but you can always find something to make your life better.

I think often in the Church we talk about having trials as if there’s something about having a trial that makes us learn. But actually, that’s not true. There’s a lot of agency involved in how we respond to our trials.

I’d never say that I’m glad I went through that experience of losing a child. If I had a time machine and could go back in time, I would, and I’d change it. But since I don’t have that option, I have been very grateful that I learned to respond the way I did. I feel fully reconciled to whatever it was the Lord was trying to do because it has ended up being a blessing.

That would also have been a lovely end to my story: I had this big trial, and I got through it, and Kimberly White’s life just went on all lovely. It has not gone that way.

I would have loved it if the loss of a baby was the final difficulty of my life. As the years have gone by, more difficulties have arisen and not been resolved. We were able, about a year after Elizabeth died, to have another little girl, which was a great blessing for us. She’s been wonderful. We always thought we would have another child and never did. I know I’m not in any position to talk about that kind of pain when there are people who never have children at all.  But, when you want something and it’s a righteous thing and you know of no reason you shouldn’t have it and yet you don’t get it, that’s still hard. I cried a lot and suffered a lot.

Most recently, our sweet little oldest girl, whom I single-parented for so long and whom my husband adopted to raise as his own, has had difficult problems. Right now she’s in a psychiatric hospital.  I don’t know how it’s all going to play out in our family life. My daughter is struggling so much right now. It’s too raw. I can’t talk too much about it.

You know that there are things you could have done better, that you should have done better. And if your children grow up OK anyway, you can wipe your brow and say, “I guess it wasn’t too bad.” And if they struggle for any other reason, because of mental illness or other traumas they face at school, or just their personality, then as a parent you can’t pretend that it wouldn’t have been better if you had been a better parent. But at the same time, you can’t beat yourself up. Nobody’s a perfect parent.

If I could pass a law for the Church, it would be that nobody is ever allowed to say, “The reason my seven children all went on missions and got married in the temple is because we always had family home evening.” Or “I gave them a blessing at the beginning of every school year, and that’s why they’re all OK.” In my experience, that’s just not true. The world is more complicated. I never heard a prophet say, “Everything in your life will go OK if you have family home evening.” They say, “You’ll have more of the Spirit in your home. You’ll have more inspiration, be better able to help,” not that you won’t then struggle.

I’m actually kind of glad we weren’t able to schedule this interview earlier but are doing it now right in the middle of this trauma with my daughter. I wouldn’t want this interview to sound like a story that was finished. Life just doesn’t work that way. Or at least it doesn’t work that way for me. I think there are a lot of people who just never settle down to ease and happiness.

The Lord has this whole vast church to run and the people best equipped to be in positions of leadership are the ones whose lives are stable. Everyone has trials, but some people have fewer than others, and those are the people He should use as church leaders. They’re not going to be falling apart all the time.  We often see that our leaders have children faithful in the church, they have jobs, they have hobbies and big full lives. But it can be difficult for other people looking at that. They may think, “If you’re more righteous, if you’re good enough to be the Relief Society president, you also get this kind of a life.” That idea creeps into the Church sometimes. I just don’t believe that’s true. Obviously it’s not true. I mean, Abinadi got burned at the stake.

What might be a helpful way to tell the stories of our lives?

The way we frame the stories of our lives for each other matters. It‘s true that there are people who come back to the Church and people whose lives are saved by loved ones. It’s just that it’s also true that there are people who never come back and people who die and people who suffer from horrible diseases for years and years and years. We forget that for some of us, the happy ending isn’t going to come in this life.

In this most recent conference, someone told a story of his daughter-in-law who had had three or four children and then she was unable to have more. I really resonated with that story. Although I know it’s much worse if you can never have any children, I appreciated its being acknowledged that being unable to bear a child is a painful thing even if you already have children. But then the story ended that she went on to have two more children. Tell a story that doesn’t end happily! Tell a story where she just found other ways to be happy. For a lot of us, that’s what we have to do.

God puts us here, knowing we won’t be perfect. He gives us children, knowing we’re not always going to treat them right. He gives us callings, knowing we’re not always going to do them right. I’m not always the kind of person I wish I was. This whole messy, muddy business with all these complications and uncertainties, the grunginess of mortality: this is the plan! He sent us, fallen, to let us fight it out.

If this messy, complicated mortality with all its pains and miseries and unfairness is the plan, if all this serves a purpose for our Heavenly Father, how sacred and wonderful all of these messes and pains must be. There is something divine and purposeful about what it means for us to struggle through all of this darkness.

There’s one way of looking at the gospel that says, none of us are good enough to deserve the exaltation that the Lord has promised. Maybe only a very, very few of the most righteous will really deserve to become powerful gods. But I look at it differently. I think if we get out of this life, having made any kind of a consistent effort, with all of the noise that Satan throws at us and all of the difficulties of just being a person, what a wonderful thing that is! People who have done that have really earned great blessings.

Anyway, I hope so.

At A Glance

Kimberly White

Location: New York, NY

Age: 38

Marital status: Married at 18, divorced at 20, married at 25

Children: 5 total: age 18, 11, 10, 6 (our deceased daughter would have been 8 )

Schools Attended: BYU

Languages Spoken at Home: English

Favorite Hymn: “Praise to the Lord”

…to reveal my major depressive episode and my suicidal thoughts to an unknown audience of thousands.

Following the birth of our fifth child, during nearly the entire five years my husband served as Bishop to our congregation, I lived in a world of increasing darkness and despair. I had no idea what was happening to me; I just knew that suddenly my life was no longer happy, I felt worthless, and I had no hope that things would ever change. I decided I must have been wearing rose-colored glasses earlier in life, and now I was simply seeing things as they really are.

At one point I became convinced that the best thing that could happen for my children would be for me to die and for them to have another mother who was all the good things that I could never be. As I read the scriptures—better for one man to perish than a nation dwindle and perish in unbelief—I thought I saw confirmation from God that this final act would be in my family’s best interest. Though my thought processes were terribly flawed, I could not see those flaws from the bottom of my deep pit of despair.

Fortunately, I was led to people who recognized what was going on, and I recovered through a combination of medication and cognitive/behavioral therapy.

In one of my last meetings with my therapist, he challenged me to write a book about my experiences. I laughed.

I had come out of darkness and back into light; why would I ever want to go back and reexamine those terrible experiences? And why, after putting what little emotional energy I had into hiding my personal, private horror, would I want to reveal myself at the very time I was done with all that?

But my plans were not the Lord’s plans. Less than a year after starting to write my story with a collaborator who was a mental health professional, Reaching for Hope: An LDS Perspective on Recovering from Depression was published. As I said my prayers the evening of the book’s release, I suddenly felt sick to my stomach and knew that events were out of my hands. I, at my very worst, in my moments of greatest failure, was now revealed to the world. I hoped the outcome would be worth the cost.

It has been. Just last week, a woman I had never met told me she had read my book. I’m never sure what to say to that: “Hope you enjoyed it!” isn’t right. People don’t read that book for relaxation or escape. But she said the words that I treasure each time I hear them: “Now we understand what our son is going through. And he knows that he is not alone, and he has hope that he can recover.”

Weeping may endure for the night, but joy can—and does—come in the morning.

Do you have a story you’d like to share? Learn how to submit your own Snapshot Portrait here.

Find Meghan’s book here.

Siu Man has been a member of the Church in Hong Kong for about 40 years. Despite a congenital heart defect that has kept her homebound for most of her life, Siu Man learned how to read from the Book of Mormon. Today, Siu Man serves her family by caring for aging family members, researching her ancestors and sharing her handiwork crafts with others.

What happened when you were born? What kind of sickness did you have?

I was born and raised in Hong Kong, in a traditional Chinese family. I lived with my parents and my two older brothers. When I was only a few months old, my mother took me to the hospital for a body check because of my unusual health condition. She found that my lips and my finger nails were purple and I looked pale all the time. When a baby looks like this, the mother is terrified. Especially for my parents because they were not well-educated, they did not know much about this type of sickness nor did other people during that time have much knowledge of heart disease. My mother was worried because she was not sure what was happening or what would happen to me. But having a “blue baby” was not something that Chinese traditional parents would expect.

She eventually took me to the doctor. After several appointments with the doctor and many tests, I was diagnosed with Tetralogy of Fallot, a congenital heart defect. With my parent’s educational level, they had no idea of the health problem that I had or what my life would be like, except for knowing that I had a rare kind of heart disease. They only knew that my blood vessels in my heart were not working in the right way and I did not have enough oxygen in my blood.

Back in that time heart surgery was something very serious and dangerous and the success rate was low. My parent knew nothing about what to do with me. Instead of proceeding to do a surgery, my mother decided to keep me at home and take care of me. I was too young and did not understand the whole situation. When I grew up, I realized I was different from other people and I started to learn of my health condition. Everything I did must be in a slow pace because if I rushed or just even walked a little faster than usual, I might have fainted or even died. I did not ask my parents for more details of my sickness because it was too complicated to them, and also to me. However, my sickness did not bother me much because I was too young to realize the seriousness of this heart disease, which is a good thing because I did not have to spend time worrying, or terrifying myself with this sickness.

With this sickness, what was your childhood like?

As I mentioned before, my mother kept me at home and did not allow me to go outside. Occasionally I was allowed to go out under special circumstances. I lived in an old apartment complex in Hong Kong. Back in those days, buildings in Hong Kong, especially residential buildings, were usually built up to ten stories. Nothing like what you see in Hong Kong nowadays, with all the high-rises and skyscrapers. These old apartment complexes usually have no elevator built-in. In the building that I used to live, there was no elevator also. I lived on the seventh floor of my building, which means whenever you needed to go to the market, to the park or just go outside for a walk, you had to go up and down by the stairs. It made it even more difficult for me to go outside. When I was a child, for every few steps I took, I had to stop every few minutes in order to keep my heart calm. Because once my heart pumps too fast, I might faint or die because there is not enough oxygen in my blood. For people with good health, climbing stairs to the seventh floor was an easy job, but for me, it was impossible to do.

This living condition was difficult for me especially when I was in an emergency situation or in need of medical attention. Every time I needed to go out or go to the hospital for doctor’s appointment, my brothers would piggy-back me up and down the stairs. They did the same when I needed to go outside. Without them, I would not be able to see the world or know what it was like outside my home. I seldom interacted with others because I stayed home most of the time when I was young. Fortunately I had some kind neighbors. They would come to my home and play with me. Life was simple back then, we did not have any fancy toys, computers or television games. But having my neighbors visit was good enough for a child like me who was not allowed to go outside to play nor attend school. Their visits meant a lot to me. They made my childhood life happier and more colorful. Even until now, I still keep in touch with them and they are still my best friends.

When did you join the Church? And how?

I was baptized when I was eleven years old. My brother was the first one in my family to learn of the Church. He later on got baptized and introduced me to the Church. When I first learned the gospel, I was very happy because I was able to have more interaction with others. Many people came and visited me and taught me about the Gospel.

My problem was I did not know how to read or write because I did not receive proper education. I was kept home by my mother after they found out that I had heart disease. I was not allowed to go to school and learn like other children. I later on learned how to read and write from my friends and from attending evening school. When I was taught about the Gospel, I knew that reading the scriptures was very important in gaining a testimony. However I felt discouraged because I did even know how to read and write. I remember when the missionaries first taught me how to read the scriptures, I did not even know how to read “Nephi,” the very first word in the first chapter of the Book of Mormon. My brother wanted me to learn the Gospel so he taught me how to read, especially the scriptures.

Later on, my brother went overseas for study, and I was left alone with my other non-member family members. Before my brother left, he bought me a dictionary. With the dictionary and the help of other members, I started to learn how to read the Book of Mormon. Those members would come to my home and teach me reading and writing. They were very patient with me, and I could feel their love. I am grateful they were willing to teach me reading and writing so that I could learn the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

From not knowing how to read at all to now reading the whole Book of Mormon, it is a miracle to me and it strengthens my faith from reading the scriptures. People around me witnessed this miracle also. To me, learning the Gospel gave me hope. I was able to meet a lot of great friends in the Church and they were willing to take care of me after my brother left. This was very encouraging to me. I felt God’s love surrounded me. I decided to be baptized and joined the Church.

You had several major surgeries in your life. How has the Gospel and your faith in Jesus Christ helped you overcome these difficult times?

When I was first diagnosed with this heart disease, the doctor told my parents that the successful rate of heart surgery was low. Also, the medical technology was not as advanced as what we have today. My parents’ family did not agree to do the surgery even though it might improve my health condition. However, they finally agreed to send me to the hospital to have my first major heart surgery when I was around 9 years old. Since then, I have had four major heart surgeries in my life. They are all critical and dangerous. Following each surgery, I had at least 30 or more stitches on my chest and stayed in the hospital for several months for recovery. Not all the surgeries were as successful as they were supposed to be, and I was fortunate to be alive after each surgery. But in general, my health did improve little by little after each surgery. Before every surgery, my doctor would explain to me the risk of doing the surgery and that I might even not be able to survive.

Siu Man's handiwork

I remember when I was in my twenties I had my fourth surgery. The medical technology was way better compared to when I was a child. The doctor planned to fix my blood vessels so that my heart could be ‘normal’ again. They needed to open my chest once again for the surgery. My doctor told me that the chance of surviving was only half and half. But I had a peaceful feeling about this particular surgery. I asked for a priesthood blessing before the surgery. In the blessing, the brother did not even mention the surgery. I was a little bit puzzled and did not know how to respond. However, I was not too worried because I know Heavenly Father was mindful of me and of my health condition. At the end, the doctor did open my chest and checked inside. My heart structure and the blood vessels were too complicated, so they decided just leave it as it was. Instead of complaining that the doctor opened my chest for nothing (opening the chest was a pain to a patient like me), I am indeed grateful that Heavenly Father watches over me.

I am grateful that even though my body is weak, Heavenly Father gives me a strong mind to overcome these challenges. My faith increases through these experiences. I never pity myself for having this heart disease, which has caused so many inconveniences in my life and to people around me. But I do not want to complain because I know that Heavenly Father is taking care of me. I am His daughter. He puts me in His hand. It is up to me to choose to be happy or sad, positive or negative. I choose to be happy and positive, whatever happens in my life.

I continue to serve and be an instrument of God.

Having heart problems might seem to be an obstacle in a person’s life, but I try my best to find ways to be happy and serve others. When I grew up, and after recovering from my major surgeries, my health condition was improving. I started to look for jobs and attend evening school. I wanted to be independent and tried not to rely on my family. I worked in a factory doing packaging in the morning. I enjoyed working because I learned so much from it. Also, I was able to meet new people in my workplace. At first my mother opposed my going to work because of my health condition, but I insisted on going. I know that I have to learn skills and earn a living in case I have to in return take care of my parents.

Besides working, I have a great desire to go to school after joining the Church and knowing how to read the scriptures. My brother who went overseas was the only one who supported me to go to school. I attended evening school at night. Since I have a little knowledge in reading and writing, I started the school courses in grade 3 level. I love going to school. Attending evening school has allowed me to gain more knowledge and know the importance of education. Having a job and attending school were something that I had longed for in my childhood. I am grateful that I have enough strength to handle both.

Several years after my fourth surgery, my dad had a stroke and my mum’s health was declining. At the time, I still had my part time job. I remember I had to work and take care of my parents at the same time. I had to cook for them and make sure all they were all right. When I was young, they took care of me, and it was my time to take care of them. They eventually passed away due to old age and illness. I felt that Heavenly Father saved my life so that I could take care of my parents. He gave me work to do in serving His children on earth. I am grateful that He gave me strength to my body so that I could have this responsibility to take care of my parents when they were getting old. I know that this is my mission in life and many more to come.

In the meantime of taking care of my parents, I was able to visit my ancestral home in China. Miraculously, I was able to find my family history. It was a thick and bulky book, with records of many of my ancestors who lived that long time ago. As some of you may know, keeping a family history book in China is very important to the family and the culture. The family history book means a lot to the Chinese families because it is a symbol of preservation of family line and root. The family history book that I received has over three thousand names in it. I felt so blessed to have this family history book of my own family. After taking care of my parents and serving them until they died, my mission now is to take care of my ancestors. I enjoy going to the temple for ordinances on their behalf. I know that they are also watching over me so that I can continue to work on my family history. They are allowing me to serve them while I am still on this earth.

Besides serving my family, I also learned that it is important to serve others and be their friends. It is my dream to be a volunteer. I want to serve others because Jesus Christ teaches us to love one another. I try my best to serve as my health condition allows. One thing that I did over the years was handcraft work. I enjoy and love beading. I made little dolls, handbags, wallets, and many other things with plastic beads. I would do this handcraft work and make it as a gift for people I meet. Sometimes I do this for the elderly center or other non-profit organizations. Besides this, I also do stitching. Currently, I am stitching the word “marriage” in Chinese and will frame it for a friend who just had her wedding anniversary. I know that I am not able to help people to move furniture when they move from house to house, nor will I be able to do any work that require a lot of man power. But I am able to do small things like this, such as beading. I love to see the smiles on people’s face when they receive my gift.

Sometimes I compare myself to others, especially those who grew up with me. Most of them are married, have children, or are successful in their career. I sometimes do think that they are better off than me. But when I look back my life, I see that God is with me all the time. He watches over me and supports me in everything I encounter. I am forever grateful to have the chance to learn the Gospel. To me, I learned a lot in the Church and in the Gospel. The Gospel gives me hope. It was not easy for me to learn how to read, but I did it through reading the scriptures. From the scriptures, I learned that there are still works for me to do in this life. I learned to accept God’s will and continue to have faith and hope. I am grateful that Heavenly Father gives me a strong mind, even though my body is weak, so that I am able to overcome the challenges in my life. I feel God’s love every single day in my life. In return I am willing to be His servant. I will continue to serve Him and His children with all that I can offer.

At A Glance

Siu Man

Location: Hong Kong

Age: 50+

Marital status: Single


Favorite Hymn: “Count Your Many Blessings”

Interview by Grace Ka Ki Kwok. Photos used with permission.

Was the military part of your background growing up?

Not at all. My joining the military was one of those times where we feel like the Lord wants to direct our lives, and we’re willing but often think, “No, that’s not for me.” I had always been interested in the military growing up. I loved TV shows like “M*A*S*H*” and in high school I even talked to my mother about joining the military, but I think her exact words were, “Over my dead body.”

I had a scholarship to BYU, so I didn’t need the military to get my education. I got my bachelor’s in microbiology and originally planned on doing the pre-med route, but I felt being a doctor would take too much time, and I wouldn’t be able to be with my family that much. So I changed career goals and went into the medical laboratory. While I was in the military, I got my master’s in Public Health.

Listening to my mother, I felt joining the military was not the right thing for an LDS woman to do. After coming home from my mission, I started working in a lab, and kept having these experiences where I felt like I was in limbo, like I wasn’t doing what I was supposed to be doing. Other times I drove by a recruiting station and could not shake the feeling, “I need to talk to him.” Then 9/11 hit. I was 26 at the time, and I still wanted to honor my mother’s wishes, but once that door opened, I immediately called a recruiter and started the process. I think the Lord really guided me in commissioning with the Air Force. With my personality, now I know that I am happier in the Air Force than I would be in the other services.

What aspects of the military appealed to you and fit your personality?

Being part of a broader cause and being able to help and defend our freedom. I love the discipline of the military and not necessarily having to think about what I wear. I like to do things by the book. I’m more of an obedient person versus a creative person, so in a way I take comfort in knowing that I’m doing what’s right because I’m following the proper regulations. Even with the Church, I know I’m supposed to pay my tithing so I feel more comfortable.

What does your position as a public health officer with the Air Force entail?

I joined in 2002 and spent four years as a personnel officer. In 2007, I converted over after earning my master’s degree in generalized Public Health, which is more the educational model. I often tell people my job is to teach the Word of Wisdom and the law of chastity, but there is a lot of disaster and emergency preparedness as well.

Right now I’m a part of what’s called a “flight.” The basic unit of the Air Force is a squadron, and a flight falls under a squadron. My flight is made up of public health technicians where we make sure groups are following approved health and safety guidelines. We have a community health section to monitor any reportable diseases within the Air Force, most of which are contagious or sexually transmitted. We monitor those who have a positive skin test for tuberculosis and keep track of the increase in influenza cases, or if there’s an outbreak of food-borne illness, we monitor that and hopefully try to stop it. Another section monitors occupational exposure. For instance, with our airmen that are working on the flightline with airplanes or are exposed to chemicals, we make sure that they get the appropriate tests, that they’re not overexposed, and that they’re using their protective gear. We also have a deployment section so anyone who is deployed comes to our office, and we make sure they have all the appropriate vaccines. If malaria is in the area, then we make sure that they get medication to help protect them. We provide them information on what animals and poisonous plants they can find in the area.

We also travel to other areas of the world in a program called Subject Matter Expert Exchanges. Earlier this year, I went to the Philippines where I was matched up with Filipino counterparts, both military and civilian, and we talked about what problems they’re seeing in the Philippines. I actually trained a lot of them on how to do proper food inspections, because many of the diseases you see in these countries are either water or food-borne. We teach them how to cook their food properly and how to maintain it.

You are married. At what point did you meet your husband?

I met him online in 2004, so I was already in the military. He was living in Colorado at the time, and I was stationed in Florida. I would come home from work and call him and we would just talk about the day. We weren’t necessarily dating, we were just chatting with each other, and then, several months later he came to visit me, and at that point we decided to get married. I tease him a lot that he married me because I was in the military.

You spent 6 months deployed to Afghanistan in 2010 and recently completed a year-long unaccompanied “hardship” tour of duty in Korea. What was the process for deciding to accept those missions?

I actually volunteered to go to Korea. It was one of those things where I heard a lot of people talk about how it was a great experience, and the camaraderie was very good. I didn’t quite expect the timing, but it ended up working out. Kunsan Air Base in Korea is one of the few Air Force locations where we’re not allowed to bring our families, so it’s a short tour. My husband was hesitant at first since he didn’t want me to be gone for a year. But the one thing he doesn’t like about the military is having to move a lot, so one of the key things that got him to accept it was when I told him it would be another year where he wouldn’t have to move. We both prayed about it and felt it was something that I needed to do. He stayed in Texas where we’d been stationed. He’s very active in the ward, so he got a lot of support from there.

How did you maintain your relationship with your spouse while you were away?

A lot of it was electronic. I didn’t always necessarily have telephone service, but whenever I was connected to a wireless service, I was able to hook up to it, and there’s also a way to text from computer for free, so I was able to text my husband almost on a daily basis even if I couldn’t talk directly to him. And when I could, I would Skype. When I’m home, we really try to spend a lot of time together. Either in the home or whenever there’s a long weekend or a holiday, we do things that we enjoy together like going places and trying different foods.

Janice and her husband

There are some good times and bad times. I really do miss my husband when we’re separated. I’ve noticed that when I’m with someone for a long time, after a while you start paying attention to the little things that annoy you. But when I’m gone, it forces me to remember the good things and why I chose him. I tell him a lot, one of the reasons that I married him was he was the person that could calm me down whenever I was angry or frustrated about something. The other guys I had dated would either make me more frustrated, or would tell me that I was worrying about something that I didn’t need to worry about. So there have been times where I’ve been really frustrated about something at work or at Kunsan, and I’ll call my husband in the middle of the night or in the early morning for him and I’ll talk to him so I can calm down.

How does Kunsan differ from a standard military base?

Everyone on Kunsan lives on base in dorm-style housing, in very close settings. I lived with several other officers that are about my same rank, who worked in the same types of position. We each had our own room, but you see the same people that you work with after you go home. In the United States, a lot of us live off base in houses within the community since there’s not enough base housing to accommodate everyone. When the day is over, we go to our homes and live what we call our “civilian lives.” We either hang out with our church friends, family, or neighbors, but we rarely see others in the military community. Being at Kunsan, we’d see each other at the base store or within the community. There’s a lot more support for our intramural sports and the different activities because we don’t have our families with us. We’re more willing to interact. Another difference is that on Kunsan, it’s about one female for every 10 males.

What are the pros and cons of being a female in a very male–dominated environment?

Often I’m the only one that has help with my bags, but not because I am having trouble. But there are also times where being women, we often have to be careful of how we present ourselves, because there are still some stereotypes of being a woman in the military. When I go to correct someone, I have to be very careful of the manner I correct them in, the verbiage that I use, because someone will think “Oh, you’re just nagging me.” Whereas if I tell my male counterpart to go correct the person, they don’t get the same feedback that I would if I did it.

Overall, I would say being a female in the military is much more accepted, even in the last ten years or so. I see women getting jobs that were typically male-only jobs. The nice thing about being in the medical world is that a lot of the military females are actually in the medicine part of it, probably 50/50.

What was your experience in Afghanistan like?

It definitely was an experience I wasn’t expecting. I was primarily out of Kandahar and assigned to be a mentor to my Afghan counterpart. When I got to Afghanistan, my boss said, “We want you to go with them to every medical station and assess what kinds of resources they already have.” And because of that, I was required to travel all throughout these other regions of Afghanistan. I probably traveled over half of the time I was there, either on a helicopter or in a humvee.

Did you feel danger for your life? How was the security situation for you personally?

That was where I was grateful for the Church. I remember about a month or so before I deployed, I read about a young man that had been killed in Afghanistan. He was a medical officer and had gone to BYU, and at that point it kinda drove home to me, “I’m really going to a dangerous spot.” I got nervous. I remember going to a stake conference and the person speaking talked about an experience he had where he had to go into a different country, and he said that he prayed to have a pathway opened for him, that doors would be opened and he would be able to speak with the people. And so that’s what I started praying for.

Both my husband and I also received blessings before I deployed. In my blessing I was told that I’d be protected and that this deployment would be beneficial for my career and it would be a good experience for me. Because of that blessing, I knew that if I was doing the traveling for work and because I wanted to do it for professional reasons that I would be protected. It’s really amazing because there were times that I would hear about a helicopter crashing or an IED that damaged a Humvee or something like that, and they were in the same areas where I had just been. But the most serious situation I was in was a car accident on one of the convoys. But I never ever had a problem getting back to my home base. There were times when a flight or a convoy was cancelled and I couldn’t go do a mission that I wanted to do. But the times when I was allowed to go, or able to get out there, I never had a problem getting back. I know that I was protected and the people that were traveling with me were protected also.

Do you feel that deployment has been beneficial to your career?

I do. I really feel it provided me with experience. For instance a lot of people that haven’t toured before, when they go to Kunsan, they complain a lot. You know in Kunsan we’re stuck in the dorms, we’re not allowed to be with our families and all that, but when I compare Kunsan with my deployment I can say, “Well at least I don’t have to go outside to go to the bathroom, I’m not scared to go to the bathroom, I have hot water pretty much every single day, I get to choose the foods I eat. There are also a lot of things I learned working with my Afghan counterpart. I was able to see how they were able to resolve some of the problems with the limited resources that they had.

How was it being accepted and giving advice as a woman, given the strong gender roles in Afghan culture?

Yes, that was a concern. Even going to the training at Fort Polk, they talked about how it was a very male-dominated culture, and there would be times when we may not be able to get our message through because we were women. But the nice thing about it was we were medical, and our medical counterparts were usually very well educated and much more willing to listen to us. One of the coolest experiences I had with being a woman was I when was up at one of the Afghan headquarters. Another female officer and I were walking toward the building and around the corner came this woman with her 10-year-old daughter. Just the look on that little girl’s face when she saw women in uniform. You could tell she was excited, tugging on her mom’s skirt. The smile on her face made my day.

There were a couple times I felt the gender barriers, but it wasn’t necessarily the Afghans that weren’t receiving my message. It was partly the coalition forces, all the other nations that were working with the U.S. It was partly my being a woman and part of it my being a captain versus a colonel. There were times where I had to get my boss to step in and tell people, “You gotta listen to her.” I’m considered one of the first levels in the Officer ranks – Captain – and Colonel is the highest.

What kind of cultural interactions have you had when you’ve lived outside the U.S.? Do you get to interact with the local people?

Yes, quite a bit. With Afghanistan, because I was a mentor, I actually dealt with the Afghans more than I dealt with the U.S. military. So I was able to learn about some of their culture. I ate with them quite a bit, I saw their work facilities. In Korea, I actually had two Korean civilians work with me, and when I got there, they took the time to sit down with me and teach me about the cultural differences– what’s accepted, what’s not accepted. They were really good and made sure I tried the different foods and saw the different sites too. The Korean people as a whole are extremely nice, very polite. When I was in Seoul, probably one of the biggest cities I’ve been in, I actually felt safe, whereas other places, I wouldn’t necessarily feel safe walking down the street or at night.

How have these experiences of getting to know these other cultures affected you?

It’s really helped me to see how if we don’t allow ourselves to look outside our own little world, we don’t realize how similar we are to each other. When I go to Honduras, Korea, Afghanistan, or the Philippines, a lot of these countries have very similar beliefs and standards. And it’s amazing to see that, whether I go to a wealthy or an impoverished area. A lot of times when I talked to some of the Filipinos, they would tell me, “Well this is just how the Filipinos do it.” And I was just laughing to myself, “Well, the Hondurans do it that way too.”

How does the gospel fit into the structure of military life?

Going to basic training was easy for me because I had been on a mission. Some of the initial rules people complained about were that you couldn’t smoke or have caffeinated drinks for at least the first two weeks. I watched several of my fellow trainees go through withdrawals of being without those substances and it was no big deal to me. On a mission, I was only allowed to talk to my family on Mother’s Day or Christmas, but in the military there are phones available and I could call home whenever I was off duty.

It’s still one of those situations where you have to be careful about not wanting to make others feel like you’re preaching to them. But I do have ways of letting others know that I’m LDS. For instance, at Kunsan, each of our units had jerseys with patches. On my jersey for the Med Unit, I have a BYU patch and a CTR patch. They’re pretty bright, it’s hard to miss them. I also took some of the MormonAds, the less religious ones, and put them up throughout my office, so when people came in they saw different little sayings.

Janice in the Philippines

Even now in my job, when I encounter a problem, I often fast and pray. I had an experience when I first got to Kunsan where I heavily relied on prayer. What had happened was my predecessor didn’t necessarily leave my program in the best of shape. If we’d have had an institutional inspection at the time, we would have failed because of the lack of documentation. I actually fasted about it because it was such a concern for me. In the Doctrine and Covenants, it talks about speaking sharply as the Spirit directs you and then follow with a spirit of love afterward. I’ve learned that I’m willing to stand up for what is right, whether it’s something with one of my programs, or something with the Church. I brought in my entire flight and basically told them how disappointed I was and gave them the challenge to prove to me that they could run their program. They were not happy with me for a couple weeks, but during those weeks, whenever I got the opportunity, I would praise them for even the smallest of things and tell them how pleased I was with their work. It was amazing – the first time in 10 years where I had a flight that was truly united. I really feel it’s because of how I was guided in that first session I had with them, providing them with what my expectations were. Because of that, and because of the opportunity the Lord gave me to help them resolve any obstacles, they were able to unite, and during the last six months they turned all those programs around to the point where they were pretty much perfect.

What resources does the Church provide to support military personnel?

They have a lot of stuff like dog tags and a special scripture set that has a red cover and is small enough to fit it into the pockets of our uniform. Going into the desert, like Afghanistan, it gets really hot, so they understand that and allow us to have special t-shirts that have the marked garments on them, so instead of having to wear two layers of clothing, we only have to wear one layer. They also make sure that Church services are available wherever there’s the possibility. Wherever there are small military branches, we actually fall under the local mission. In Afghanistan, being part of the district Relief Society presidency, those that notified us that they were LDS and wanted to have contact, we had sisters all throughout the country, both in Afghanistan and Kyrgyzstan, and one my roles in the Relief Society was to send out the visiting teaching messages. So even though we weren’t physically close to each other, we would email each other, and I would send out a little message each month, or a devotional. The Church actually does a good job of making sure we have the Relief Society set up.

What are worship services like?

Each military base has a chapel, and it’s very similar in the deployed setting. At Kunsan, our chaplain services coordinated different times in two different buildings for every religion that wanted the opportunity to hold services there. One of them was the chapel itself, the other was another facility with a small worship room run by the chaplain. We met in the afternoon. There’s a piano in there and tables where we had the sacrament. Because we didn’t have any children with us, we had a different schedule for our meetings. We had sacrament meeting, but didn’t have two additional hours, just one. For the second hour we alternated between Sunday School one week and Priesthood/Relief Society the next and all met together.

What does patriotism mean to you?

When I look at freedom, it’s based on being allowed to worship how I see fit, or being able to go to sleep at night and not worry that some militants or gunmen are going to come. Freedom is the right to be able to express ourselves and not to fear reprisal. Being in Afghanistan and seeing what life is like when freedoms are denied strengthened my resolve to defend our freedoms and the privilege we have of enjoying our services.

What can the average person do to be a good citizen whatever country they live in?

A lot of it is just to take care of those within your community. If you have a program to take care of those, then start branching out from your community. When we take care of each other in our communities, it’s amazing what can happen.

At A Glance

Janice M. McDowell

Location: Kunsan Air Base Republic of Korea

Age: 37

Marital status: Married

Occupation: Public Health Officer United States Air Force

Schools Attended: BYU and Univ Mass-Amherst

Languages Spoken at Home: English and Spanish

Favorite Hymn: “Do What Is Right”

Interview by Nollie Haws. Photos used with permission.