The IMSS is a small museum so we began by discussing the multitasking that one has to do when there are just a handful of employees. We both laughed about our small museum experience which included so many things – managing the membership, volunteer, internship programs, writing newsletters, and “on top of that facilitating, taking out the trash when necessary and all those kinds of other duties.” She went over the platforms they use for marketing and outreach, such as iContact for newsletters and WordPress for the website. Social media took up the rest of our interview: “We have Facebook, Instagram, Twitter which are the big three. A little bit on LinkedIn but that never really took off.” The #HistMed (history of medicine) hashtag and community is very popular on Pinterest and that is another platform that may be in the works for the IMSS.

We discussed the importance of tagging posts properly so they can be seen by your audience. She shared her social media guide with me which had a multitude of hashtags that she uses on her posts and the themes for each day of the week. For example, on Mondays “people want motivation to get them through the first day of the work week, so commiserating with feeling tired etc. or sharing fun & interesting imagery/facts“ was a recommendation. Some suggested hashtags were #MorbidMonday, #MuseumMonday and #MotivationalMonday. Her guide/social media calendar was thoughtfully compiled so an intern or volunteer could easily perform posting duties. 

Catherine went over the importance of knowing who your audience is and responding to their needs. She has found that there is an intersection of people who enjoy science/medical history and people who are into morbid curiosities. So using the appropriate tags on social media (mostly Twitter and Instagram) ensures that these audiences are served.

We discussed the ways a website is used vs. how social media is used. Her observation is that the website is for people who are looking for logistical facts, such as hours and location to plan their visit. Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. on the other hand are a great way “to use social media as a medium for education. So that you didn’t necessarily have to come through our doors to get a little piece of medical history.”

One of the challenges we discussed was in regards to negativity and hateful commenters on social media. An example she recounted for me was about an article she posted during Pride month. The post honored a famous medical professional who was also the first “out” lesbian in the US military and there was backlash in the comments about queer people serving in the military. Catherine was clear that while she does agree that people have a right to voice their opinion, she will “hide” hate speech and not engage with these individuals.

As previously mentioned, Catherine shared her social media strategies with me which included the social media calendar and a social media market research/strategy report. The calendar was a thorough guide to what kind of stories to post and what the best days and tags are appropriate for them. Her marketing report outlined goals (such as increasing engagement and traffic), the benefits of advertising on various platforms, and helpful information from a third party website (https://sproutsocial.com/insights/social-media-advertising-strategy/) regarding the cost and benefits of paying for advertising on sites like Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

I thoroughly enjoyed spending time chatting with Catherine. One of the things I mentioned at the close of our interview is that younger millennials such as herself are so well suited to managing social media because they have grown up online and have the personality for it. Her enthusiasm for her projects at the International Museum of Surgical Science made for a very fun and engaging interview.

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Before the position of Manager of Digital Media and Strategy was created, Melanie was the Manager of Digital Learning. Melanie also pioneered the digital field trip and virtual tour programs that have now received over 20,000 participants since it was formed in 2017 and are some of the most popular virtual programs currently at Monticello. Her main job responsibilities before transferring over into the Digital Media and Strategy position included overseeing the digital field trips and virtual tours I mentioned above. When it came to discussing the costs and expenses of digital learning, Melanie agreed that programs for teachers and students should be free. Thankfully, Monticello secured funding so that the virtual programs could be free for those who needed it most. With how much work had gone into creating the programs, they were ready to launch the first day that the world shut down because of COVID. Reflecting back on it, Melanie was proud at how quickly they were able to implement this; it was quicker than most institutions, but she still applauds all museums who were able to survive this pandemic. One thing her team struggled with was not having that in-person engagement, which was a learning curve for all of them, but they were able to make it work.

While these virtual programs gained immense popularity during the first few months of quarantine, they are now dying off, and Melanie and her team at Monticello are working towards bringing back most, if not all, their in-person programs. However, for school groups and educators, these virtual tours are still growing in popularity. What I found interesting were the ones who were most interested in the virtual tours weren’t even from Virginia; the two most popular states were Texas and California. I asked if they had any programs specifically aimed towards younger kids, as that is the age group my project is for, and she said they created two very personalized programs for two school districts in Virginia. These programs were originally in person, but due to circumstances, they had to transfer them to virtual, and did a phenomenal job doing so.

Towards the end of the interview, I asked some more general questions about digital learning and engagement that has risen since the start of the pandemic. Personally, she thinks live tours have been really helpful in bringing the museum experience to the (virtual) visitor. Melanie does say that it’s hard to make it feel like a real museum visit virtually, and there’s almost no way to replicate the feeling of walking through Thomas Jefferson’s home, but it comes pretty close. Another idea that she likes is alternate reality and how that could be implied in museums. However, Monticello is not exactly a “fun” museum as they discuss very heavy topics such as slavery. Melanie understands that these ideas like AR may not be possible for them, but would like to see how it could evolve into something they can use. She thinks Zoom lectures are overdone and boring, and would like to see more interactive Zoom sessions. We both agreed that museums should be expanding their programs to be not something directly related to the content they offer; for example, Monticello offers wreath making classes, and while there’s no direct relation of wreaths to Thomas Jefferson, it’s something that is quite popular. Museums, as Melanie said, are a place for those to come together and have fun, and whether that’s touring the museum or taking a wreath-making class, museums’ purposes should be focused on what their community wants.

One topic that stood out to me that I want to end on: “Digitalization is not the end; it is a means to an end. A tool rather than the end result.” I think we can learn a lot from this quote, and from everything Melanie talked about in her interview. I had a great time talking to her and would love to interview her again in the future.

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Experienced and sought after museum professional in many facets, Rachel has worked for the Guggenheim Museum, Brooklyn Museum, MoMA, the Met, Dulwich Picture Gallery, The Courtauld Gallery in London, Smarthistory?the Khan Academy online. Creator of high-end educational travel content. Also, she has taught and been a contributor at Pratt Institute, New York City Museum Educators Roundtable, NYCMER, Museum Computer Network, and the American Alliance of Museums. Prolific creator of digital and in person engagements emphasizing discussion and empathy building around art and ideas, Rachel’s work goes beyond the confines of digital or simply educational. She has worked for and designed dynamic engagements such as Verbal Description audio Guides (GOAL: to increase access for museum visitors who are blind, have low vision, or are fully sighted though vivid descriptions of specific artworks) Summer of Know (GOAL: to stimulate museum visitors’ thoughts about current world events during extended hours programming in the summer), and One Hour, One Object (GOAL: to facilitate deeper, slower looking for museum visitors).  (rachelropeik.com)

My goal in interviewing Ms. Ropeik was to learn about her philosophy and approach to designing engagement programs and to find her advice and reactions to my project’s idea to bring the principles of the Law of Attraction into our busy digital lives in combination with an art gallery’s collection. My interview had an overarching agenda to introduce myself, the project, and my idea. Also from the beginning, I wanted to provide Rachel with my audience interview findings and the evolving solutions to those ‘problems to be solved’. I hoped for her to give me some ideas about where she might go with something like my idea, what to keep in mind while moving forward based on her vast experience and lastly to glean advice about a career in museums today.  Rachel reaffirmed my firndings that most engagers today are dealing with digital fatigue greater than any other time, that their patience for meaningless experiences is less than ever, and she also confirmed that audiences are reaching for joy, pleasure, and depth of connection. Rachel complimented and encouraged my ideas around bringing well-being into an initiative and attaching that to art in some way, that art and reflection are meaningful and sought after events in audiences lives. We discussed Prof. Allen Grey’s advice to me to find ways to interconnect engagers with each other and Rachel told me of a few examples to spir my ideas. She spoke about an empathy building activity she ran through a Zoom workshop she developed for the surrounding art collectives in and around the Aspen Art Museum where participants were partnered and “took a walk” together taking their Zoom partner along. Seeing the other’s life and perspective gave conversation and relatable contexts for the participants. Another mindful activity during this workshop was a simple reading event where each partner read a recent important passage and discussed its significance. Several other ideas we discussed that seemed to connect with my idea and solution was the SFMOMA “show me” project we about in class and the Tate Museums’ similar project called the Magic Tate Ball where participants could find a piece of art and life reflection with the listening device that “read” your ambient surroundings and presented a piece reflecting that scene. We laughed that it’s like Shazam for art. “It’s interesting to see how art can show up in our lives in different ways” was her comment. I too believe that it’s interesting and also very related to the ideas of the Laws of Attraction which emphasize that our current vibrations bring forward in our lives the next manifestation. What an insightful and immediate way to see what we might be manifesting with our vibrations! 

Another great takeaway idea from my interview with Rachel was something like a gift or art card pack that could contain a relevant Law of Attraction idea couple with a piece of art and additionally with a QR Code that could link a participant with further discussion, reflection, or even the ability to connect with other people in and around the art and the laws. 

Thanks to Rachel’s sincere encouragement that being completely out of the box in terms of experience in creating digital engagement previously is a benefit and he belief that what is orbiting a creator’s mind at the moment is a great thing to go with and to see where that leads you, I feel like I can move forward and know that my idea has some merit in the museum digital engagement world. I feel good about further morphing my project toward an Art Card concept that can be both digital and tangible. It also simplifies the project which has been a needed element from the broad ideas I had in the beginning. 

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Dr. Mike Murawski is currently an independent consultant, author, nature-lover, and change leader. He is a co-producer of #MuseumsAreNotNeutral, a global advocacy campaign calling for equity-based transformation across museums and arts & culture non-profits. He has also worked since 2011 as the Founding Editor of ArtMuseumTeaching.com, a forum dedicated to reflecting on critical issues facing arts&culture and museums.

With this being said, I became interested in Murawski and his work during his time as the Director of Education and Public Programs at the Portland Art Museum (PAM), where he worked on their famous Object Stories project. Launched in 2010, Object Stories is a storytelling project and exhibition series by the museum, where participants are invited to – literally- tell stories about their favorite objects, either personal or on display at the museum. The project has grown and expanded over the years, but it is important to remember the storytelling core of the project. Object Stories was the first iteration of its kind, pushing beyond the well-known authoritative voice commonly experienced in museums and their stories. The project instead called for a multi-directional exchange between the museum and Portland’s surrounding communities. Over the years, Object Stories has worked to continuously address questions of shared authority, meaning making in museums, and who among us have typically not had our stories heard.

I learned a lot in this interview, not just about how Object Stories came to be in its current configuration, but how an institution was able to become more community-centered and lend museum space to accomplish it. It all started with the idea that objects had stories to tell, stories that were meaningful; and if the museum was able to get people to create and exploring the meanings behind their own objects, that they then would be able to do so with museum objects and perceive the museum as a place for stories. This level of trust in the community – that they would be able to derive meaning and significance from these objects and then convey that through storytelling in their own way was not widespread at the start of the project. But, with the support of individuals who saw the value in the project, across departments, organizations, and groups, the bounds of collaboration previously thought possible could be pushed further. “Anything goes,” was how Murawski described the core of the design process in Object Stories, where the stories left the recording booth and were allowed to unfold however they did, wherever they did.

In this interview, I ask Murawski about the design process and implementation of Object Stories, like their work with Native students to produce an exhibition on their stories about the Native objects in PAM’s collection. We discuss how public-generated content and working with community partners worked to challenge their assumptions about collaboration and decision-making in the museum. I ask him about the challenges of getting a project like this off the ground, the fight for museum education to gain gallery space, and how other institutions can work to incorporate a poly-vocal approach to their own storytelling.

My conversation with Mike (as he preferred I call him) worked to expand my thinking around how collaboration in the museum can happen. There was no institutional initiative to get this off the ground, but instead a dedication to what; the storytelling. Its value was seen by others working in the museum, community partners, and onward. This is not me romanticizing the incredibly hard, ongoing work that those involved have put in, but does reiterate what we heard from Sina Bahram about letting the idea of perfect be the enemy of good, where we fear not having everything together to the point of not starting and thus not doing the good thing that is needed. I personally think that Object Stories continues to do the good things that are needed right now.

I hope you will enjoy this interview as much as I did facilitating it.

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As is the case with many not-for-profit organizations like museum foundations, she finds herself wearing many hats daily. She is a small and mighty team of one and notes that she would love to expand the team with a few more members if the budget allowed. She does all of the social media posting and scheduling and has honed a strategic posting schedule based on the events surrounding their resources. Since the beginning of the pandemic, they have implemented a monthly blog and social media strategy meeting where the curatorial, archaeological, and support staff can assist Miss Burger with imagery and ideas for social media and blog posts. The team also helps by submitting blog posts themselves, alleviating some of the work from herself. There is a healthy YouTube presence filled with videos of varying durations. These videos chronicle the reconstruction of George Washington’s Ferry Farm, archaeological discoveries, and all things related to the 18^th century. 

The biggest struggle that she faces during the pandemic is finding new and exciting ways to keep visitors engaged. Like many museums and historic houses, they have had to pivot to digital engagement-centric tactics but were relieved to have only been closed between March and July. When the governor allowed visitors back in their facilities, tour numbers, based on the CDC guidelines, were not that much smaller than they usually allow. In this enhanced digital age, she would like to purchase new photo and video production equipment to produce the highest quality content possible. Struggles and fails are not always a bad thing; as she pointed out, what we have been learning all along, that you can learn from failures just as much as successes. 

As Miss Burger gains more experience at her position, she is most surprised to have learned that, unlike accounting, for example, there are many ways to do this job. The museum field is ever-changing, and she is excited to continue the journey (perhaps maybe with a bit of help from some up-and-coming museum professionals).

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With great irony, I find this oddly reminiscent of our current state resulting from COVID-induced shutdowns. The full extent of the past ’years severance between gallery and audiences will be a topic of great interest for years to come, and Maggie’s ability to draw connections between historic and real-time effects will be of great importance as she prepares to mount the Norton Simon’s upcoming exhibition, The Expressive Body; Memory, Devotion, Desire (1400-1750) on both the analog and digital platforms.

Interview:

In our interview, we discussed Maggie’s current interest in the ways “visual culture can evoke stories and lived experiences in ways written sources cannot.”  She became particularly interested in “linking the past with the present” through her experience in mounting an exhibition entitled “Sacred Art, Visual Traditions in Latin America and Santa Barbara” as part of the Getty’s “Pacific Standard Time” initiative in 2017.  As part of the exhibition, she collected the oral traditions of Chumash Elders and through video documentation, entered them into the historic record for generations to come. 

Q: How have COVID-induced shutdowns impacted your curatorial strategies?

Maggie reports that she was drawn to the Norton Simon for its small but significant collection that allows her to work across fields and disciplines and employ interpretive strategies through new and exciting themes. When asked how her curatorial work has been impacted by the events of the past year, she reports that it not only delayed her exhibition, but challenged her to reconsider its expression on both the analog and digital platform

With the forced closure of the gallery, Maggie and her team were challenged to identify ways to sustain public engagement, and in the process, discovered new ways to keep touch with their loyal audience while expanding its reach to a more comprehensive and global sector. Through Instagram posts and selective curatorial videos, Maggie and team have perfected the ‘art’ of writing across platform for diverse audiences, and through both “digestible” Instagram posts and curatorial videos, she feels that viewers are now able to connect a ‘face’ with the institution, and engage on a more intimate, personal level. She adds that the video platform allows for greater control in directing the viewer’s eye through both panoramic and magnified perspective, making collections more “enjoyable and accessible.’ and concludes that it has been “a joy” to receive audience response.

Q:  The analog v. the digital platform:

Maggie notes that while the digital platform allows a more intimate exchange between the museum and its audience, it is no substitute for the in-house experience.  The Norton Simon Museum sits on extensive and lavishly cared for grounds, and its in-house amenities are considerable. Maggie’s contends that these are “hard to transfer” – yet adds that the expanded reach of the past year’s digital initiatives will allow their small-but-mighty External Affairs Team to track audience engagement in greater resolution and be more responsive to their expressed needs. As result, she anticipates a positive conversion rate between online and in-house participation, once the gallery can reopen its doors.

Q: The transition from Analog to Digital and Back Again…

The upcoming exhibition will offer a rich opportunity to explore the ways the digital and analog experiences evoke a different response, due to its use of imagery in activating the body.  Maggie reports that she had planned to design a “meditative space” in which the viewer was encouraged to linger, reflect and consider the historical response in an intimate setting.  Yet, due to health concerns and anticipated restrictions upon reopening, she is not sure how many viewers will be allowed to gather, and for what length of time. In response, she plans to create an online audio component that viewers can stream on their own devices– but reports that this traditional museum does not yet have Wi-Fi in the galleries! 

Maggie concludes that if there could be a ‘silver lining’ to the effects of this past tragic year, it might offer an incentive for the museum to rise to the challenge of the 21^st century, and join the ranks of those who have struck a delicate balance between a technological and traditional experience. As result, she hopes this might allow the museum to offer its audiences an opportunity to more fully access and engage with its collections.  Indeed, Maggie’s contribution will offer the public a chance to experience the healing power of art, in a much-needed time. 

References: Bell, M, 2014, Image as Relic: Bodily Vision and the Reconstitution of Viewer/Image Relationships at the Sacro Monte di Varallo. California Italina Studies, Volume 5, Issue 1. http://escholarship.org/uc/item/84q9v2k5, accessed on 17 April, 2021

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In the museum context, the strength of DiMeo’s storytelling is reflected in his ability to spin tales that help listeners forge personal connections to inanimate objects, such as a ballroom that was relocated to the Met from a Virginia tavern or an Egyptian temple that is one of the museum’s best known exhibits.  Something distant is made relevant.  For museums that prioritize connecting visitors with the place and with objects in the collection, this skill is priceless. 

One main point that jumped out at me from the interview is that audio storytelling can be considered art. Good on the Met for taking a chance on The Memory Palace.

Other takeaways include:

• There is no doubt that museums contain vast amounts of knowledge, but the challenge for any museum is figuring out how to bring out its expertise in a way that helps visitors forge personal connections. One example of a storytelling job well-done would be DiMeo’s story on the Temple of Dendur – which did indeed include scholarly historical information about the temple, but did not focus on it.  Listeners are reminded of seeing the temple at the Met, which DiMeo notes is “a specific place – like if you’ve been the Met once, you’ve been there (to the Temple of Dendur) (approx 24:00).”  Then, however, the narrative brings the story home, by turning “ an Egyptian story (into) a New York story (approx 25:30).”   

• Good storytelling not only makes stronger and more engaging connections between people and what they see at a museum, it is simply more enjoyable to listen to. The idea of listenability, for lack of a better word, is essential, as museums compete with other sources of stimuli for the public’s attention. One example to illustrate this point is to compare The Memory Palace story of the Temple of Dendur, which is episode 5, with the conventional audio description that is available on the Met’s website. Which one would you rather listen to?

• There is room for museums to improve their audio storytelling offerings. Audio guides are not flashy and therefore, almost an afterthought. However, a well-done audio guide provides a way for visitors to have independent and individualized experiences, while also allowing the museum to help shape those experiences in a way that is meaningful. DiMeo mentioned that when he had finished his residency, he “was pretty sure that this would open the door to more museum work,” but the reality is that “ostensibly, not a single other institution has reached out (approx 31:00).” This information is disappointing, but on the flip side, perhaps it also means the time is right to shake things up.     

My question for further discussion is why have museums not taken better advantage of integrating audio storytelling into their digital engagement offerings?

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Erin joined the team while the Franklin Institute restructured their Digital department, joining the Marketing and Communications team. All of the education-focused staff moved with it. As a result, their social media presence evolved. “We started to use [social media] as more of a marketing tool than it had been used before.” This strategy draws audiences to their mission-based content, from exhibitions to online activities.

Why did this departmental shift happen? CEO Larry Dubinski also comes from the for-profit sector. Erin has found this perspective valuable. “[He] understood that for the long-term viability, [FI] needs to be run like a business. He saw value in bringing people from outside the sector to help shape that.” Museums are mission-focused institutions, but they need sufficient funds to survive. It’s evident that the CEO acknowledges the value social media has in attracting audiences to the museum. Two years later, this strategy has proven more helpful now more than ever.

The COVID pandemic has proven extremely difficult for museums to stay afloat. Many furloughed most of their staff, forcing them to decide which are vital to function. For the Franklin Institute, digital was one of them. Through our conversation, Erin revealed internal and external impacts of the pandemic on their digital presence, and what that means for the future.

In-House Decisions

Erin knows how important social media is on society. When FI closed, she knew that “we need to talk to people where they are, and that is primarily through digital.” As a result, they focused on social media, consistently posting content and programs.

When deciding which content to post, they drew from their most popular programs and collaborated with staff. “Derrick [Pitts, chief astronomer] would do his Night Skies show each week on Thursday night. He’s kind of our celebrity.” Other staff members made content as well. The resident bioscientist and environmental scientist hosted livestreams. Erin said, “we were willing to try more…If somebody watches, great. If somebody doesn’t watch, that’s ok.” These programs show: 1) FI knows how important digital is to reach audiences and 2) the digital team experiments with online programming.

Audience Motivations

People stayed at home for most of 2020. During this time, many turned to cultural institutions to escape. According to LaPlaca Cohen (2020), most respondents interacted with organizations to stay connected and even escape from reality. However, many people are not ready to visit museums. In a survey, Erin found that “close to 50% [of respondents]…weren’t comfortable until there was a vaccine.”

Knowing this, Erin had to balance exhibition marketing and educational programming on social media. Creating education content is important to stay in touch with audiences. However, this takes a lot of time and does not generate revenue. As a result, they dialed back live programs. “Night Skies” occurs monthly instead of weekly. Meanwhile, Erin creates campaigns to draw viewers to the new Crayola IDEAworks exhibition.

When marketing for an exhibition, Erin tests creative ideas (i.e. videos and image slideshows) with target audiences. For Game Masters, an exhibition on the history of games, they tested ads against three audiences: gamers, families, and millennials. Surprisingly, gamers were uninterested while families wanted to go. Erin was able to focus resources on one group instead of a broad audience.

Looking Forward

Now that vaccines are available, we are one step closer to getting back to normal. What lasting effects will the pandemic have on museums? Erin shared that the Franklin Institute is focusing on their business and digital strategies. In 2022, they are completely rebranding the museum. With the success of social media programs, Erin’s team is working on how to monetize and diversify digital projects. She found that “some [people] are high consumers of the museum, others are very interested in science content but don’t have a way to come into the building. How can we serve our mission to all of them?”

With the rise of streaming services like Netflix and Hulu, one consideration is a paid, subscription-based platform. This platform would offer science-based podcasts, live events, and games. While the livestreams were successful, they make zero revenue. If people are to pay for digital, they will expect high-quality content, which is expensive to produce. While this platform may be too costly now, it is a step in the right direction.

Final Thoughts

From our conversation, Erin’s digital marketing experience in the for-profit sector has proven valuable during and after the COVID pandemic. Like many museums, the pandemic forced FI to take advantage of a major opportunity: social media. Working with her mission-focused team members, they were able to experiment with educational content to successfully attract and engage with diverse audiences.

One final point: if more museums are to take a business-minded approach to digital, it is important to not lose track of the mission. As Erin told me, “That doesn’t mean moving away from the mission, it’s just to be able to continue long-term.”

Reference:

LaPlaca Cohen (2020) Culture + community in a time of crisis: Key findings from wave 1. Culture Track. https://s28475.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/CCTC-Key-Findings-from-Wave-1_final.pdf

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Given her innovation in growing the relationship between digital tools, museums, and arts education, I wanted to investigate how her journey into arts education became what it is today. Michelle’s family has been in North Carolina for over 10 generations, which had a strong influence on her motivation to improve educational opportunities locally. In addition to expanding on her roots, Michelle wrote that “[Her] passion to increase access to learning through art and art museums is my driving force – technology is a fabulous tool when used effectively to make experiences available to more children.”

Michelle’s work at the NCMA included incorporating omni-directional cameras and virtual reality (VR) tools into the Ansel Adams exhibition and Georgia O’Keeffe’ exhibition. Both of these projects immersed visitors in the locations and work of the artist. Omni-directional cameras were also used to create a 360-degree interactive of the NCMA Conservation Lab, providing an exclusive behind-the-scenes look into art conservation methods at the museum. I wanted to delve further into the successes, failures of these projects and how they will be used to inform future exhibitions.

Michelle emphasized a few key points to focus on when exploring new educational methods to deploy at the museum. First is to have a clear goal that the project is intended to accomplish. Michelle also wrote that “We have prioritized Social Emotional Learning as a framework for all education programs and have targeted self and social awareness…”

Secondly, when designing an educational solution, Michelle expressed the importance of designing from the margins. She referenced this method as a way to ensure inclusion for all visitors. For instance, when trying to bring VR to rural students, many people did not have access to the headsets necessary to engage in this kind of learning method. As museum staff, it is essential to be humble and be able to let go of an idea if it’s not fulfilling the audience’s needs or reaching them as the project intended. She also mentioned that “Our education team is small and mighty but it’s easy to get excited about new technological possibilities (bells and whistles) and not have the resources to support it.”

Third, Michelle addressed my questions regarding how she determines which strategies are effective (and not) for educators and students, and what successes she’s had along the way. In addition to her previous comments on incorporating the user into testing, she wrote that “The biggest success was using the design process as a human-centered approach for innovative work. Incorporating the audience into the design process was key to determining which strategies worked and didn’t work- they simply told us. Funding, internal buy-in, and conflicting institutional priorities were some of our greatest challenges..”

My time with Michelle was highly informative and I enjoyed discovering how her real-world experiences applied to our learning objectives in digital engagement projects for museums.

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 Sarah discussed a little bit about where she felt her career has taken her and where it might take her in the future. She seems content in her current position but acknowledges that she does not know what her future career might look like. After discussing her career, we went on to discuss the different aspects of working at the Smithsonian and, in particular, NASM. Her response was not unexpected stating that the museum has days that are mundane that include paperwork and project work and more exciting days that include events like meeting astronauts and engineers. I had to express at the end of the interview that this interview was to me like meeting an astronaut was to her. I had also asked her what it was like creating digital content for the museum with the understanding when I was writing the questions that Media Manager meant something to do with social media. She discussed earlier in the interview how her role was less about social media and more of the digital content found within the museum. I also asked a clarifying question regarding which NASM site she worked for, she responded with say she works for both, Udvar-Hazy and DC, while also adding that there are other locations that are not public sites. She also added that during COVID she has worked at neither as all work has been completed from home but that she is looking forward to heading back.

 I followed this question up with a question about what some of the indicators are that a project is working and achieving its goals. She had a good response to this stating that responses from visitors were usually good indicators of the direction the project needs to go. This was followed by questions about some of her greatest successes and worst failures and their impact on her career. Her response to this was a bit inspiring as she said that she does not think of anything as a failure only a way to understand how to move forward. She said it much more gracefully than I did here, but the idea is still the same. She referenced a time when her and a colleague spent several hours printing out QR codes and laminating them to bring to a particular event for people to look up information and stories about various aircraft. The concept failed not because it was a bad concept but because the pilots who flew some of the aircraft were present at the event reducing the impact of the interactive because the more interesting source of information was the living, breathing, human being who had first-hand experience with each respective aircraft.

COVID has had some impacts on her work with some impacting how evaluations are conducted and the other her worksite. COVID has also affected how they are thinking about visitors and spaces within the museum. While it has not changed the content, they are addressing and has not yet changed the manner in which it is addressed, they have started thinking about what could change. A museum conference I had attended for work last summer had indicated that many museums had been moving towards touchless interactives. Sarah and her team are keeping with the touchable interactives until they hear otherwise, and she said she had not heard of any data recently supporting any changes but admitted she has not kept up with any possible changes either.

My second to last question revolved around the most enjoyable experience she has had while working at NASM or the Museum of Natural History and what she was able to learn from it. Her answer to this question was the project she is currently working on, and has been for a few years now, which is a remodel of one half of the DC site. While she stated that it is not always fun, and not necessarily enjoyable, it is certainly satisfying to see all of her work come to life.

My last question was more of a “fun” question that I ask some form of to everyone I interview, this time it was asking what the best and the worst aspects of working for the Smithsonian. She pointed out that the worst thing about working for the Smithsonian, which is with every government job, is the paperwork but the best thing is how interconnected the Smithsonian museums are that the people she worked with at the Museum of Natural History over eight years ago are still occasionally in meetings with her now while she works at the National Air and Space Museum.

I concluded the interview by thanking her for her time and allowing me to have this conversation with her about her work and her career.

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