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		<title>Morning Blog-3-10-10</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/planetpov/mfkm/~3/9CUU6RfrSXk/</link>
		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/10/morning-blog-3-10-10/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kalima</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Speakers' Corner]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://planetpov.com/?p=7022</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good morning everyone. We hope that this will be the place you come to when you wake up early before you leave for work. The place you visit when you wake up late or just a place to meet and chat in between breaks from serious topics and discussions during your day.
Feel free to talk [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/images-151.jpeg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-9630" title="images-15" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/images-151.jpeg" alt="" width="150" height="110" /></a>Good morning everyone. We hope that this will be the place you come to when you wake up early before you leave for work. The place you visit when you wake up late or just a place to meet and chat in between breaks from serious topics and discussions during your day.</p>
<p>Feel free to talk about your interesting news story finds, your funny stories, photos or a slice of your lives. This is your space, come here to relax and unload. We welcome you with open arms. Enjoy.</p>
<p>BTW this blog is open to one and all, not only the early risers.</p>
<p>Bearing in mind that weekends are a time for catching up with family matters and a long awaited extra hour or so under the warm bedcovers, your “Morning Blog” will run every morning from 5 am EST, even on weekends.  Drop in any time. Thanks a bunch.</p>
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		<slash:comments>899</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>Glen Beckistan Strikes Again but this Time with a Dem</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/planetpov/mfkm/~3/MsgftmOjysM/</link>
		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/09/glen-beckistan-strikes-again-but-this-time-with-a-dem/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 04:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>KQuark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Speakers' Corner]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://planetpov.com/?p=11189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK I refuse to watch Beck but from what I heard about Massa&#8217;s interview with him it was just strange in some ways.  I know very little about Massa and he&#8217;s innocent until anything is proven but wow one of his answers sounded just like the excuses men who harass women in the work [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK I refuse to watch Beck but from what I heard about Massa&#8217;s interview with him it was just strange in some ways.  I know very little about Massa and he&#8217;s innocent until anything is proven but wow one of his answers sounded just like the excuses men who harass women in the work place make all the time.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/eric-massa-and-glenn-beck_n_492441.html">Click here</a> to read whole article.</p>
<blockquote><p>In a one-hour interview with Beck that had much of the journalism world gawking and twittering in amazement, Massa offered a series of bizarre, even inexplicable explanations for his abrupt departure from office. Coming just hours after news broke that the he was under investigation for groping multiple male staffers, Massa insisted that the interactions were playful in nature, though inappropriate in retrospect.</p>
<p>&#8220;Not only did I grope him, I tickled him until he couldn&#8217;t breathe,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I should have never allowed myself to be as familiar with my staff as I was&#8230; I own this misbehavior.&#8221;</p>
<p>If that wasn&#8217;t enough of a head-scratcher, Massa grew even more cryptic and bizarre when the topic turned to his insistence that Democratic forces had forced him out of office &#8212; because they were so worried that he would derail health care reform. He did say that the decision &#8220;not to run again&#8221; was his and his alone &#8212; but he still pegged his immediate resignation to White House brow-beating.</p>
<p>And yet, the only evidence he could summon was basic and formulaic types of political pressure.</p>
<p>&#8220;It literally keeps me awake at night,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Glenn, I have had people come to me, union leaders &#8212; and I&#8217;m a union guy and I know you&#8217;re not &#8212; who look at me and said, &#8216;If you don&#8217;t support this health care bill, I will not contribute to your campaign&#8217;. Glenn that&#8217;s a bribe.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even Beck wasn&#8217;t buying it, pointing out that what Massa was talking about was, in fact, just lobbying. </p></blockquote>
<p>His last comment sounds equally as strange.  If labour unions can&#8217;t lobby to fight corporations than we are surely finished.  ChoiceLady may have some insight into lobbying by left leaning and truly non-partisan organizations. </p>
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		<item>
		<title>A totem of the American West</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/planetpov/mfkm/~3/dKL6-sBbDHw/</link>
		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/09/a-totem-of-the-american-west/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 22:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>PepeLepew</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Environment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[News & Politics]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://planetpov.com/?p=11177</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
I will never quite understand the emotional reaction toward wolves.
There are people in the West who hate wolves. And I do mean hate. Pathological hate. It simply defies logic and reason.
There are people in the Rockies who believe &#8212; with all of their heart and soul &#8212; that wolves are quite literally evil.
Wolves are a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/helenair.jpg"><img src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/helenair-300x228.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="228" class="alignright size-medium wp-image-11179" /></a><br />
I will never quite understand the emotional reaction toward wolves.</p>
<p>There are people in the West who hate wolves. And I do mean hate. Pathological hate. It simply defies logic and reason.</p>
<p>There are people in the Rockies who believe &#8212; with all of their heart and soul &#8212; that wolves are quite literally evil.</p>
<p>Wolves are a huge controversy in the Rocky Mountains. Honestly, if you don&#8217;t live here, you have no idea how vitriolic it really is. It is something that runs deep in the Mountain Time Zone, psyche, and while I love Montana, this is something about the state I simply don&#8217;t understand &#8230; and probably never will. The wolf represents something totemic.</p>
<p>It reminds me of when I was a kid, people thought Killer whales were actually evil. They were killers, they ate people. When people learned more about them, they realized they are NOT evil (well, at least not the wild ones), and now killer whales are just about the most beloved animal in the Pacific Northwest. I have literally seen people burst into tears at the site of an orca. </p>
<p>National Geographic did an article this month that touched on the issue relatively well. I hope everyone checks it out. Though I think that article just kind of scraped the tip of the iceberg of the emotionalism (and lack of rationalism sometimes) in the West when it comes to wolves.</p>
<p>Personally, I love wolves. I think they&#8217;re cool. I think they&#8217;re beautiful. My first experience with wolves was when I was a little kid. We were fishing on Lac La Ronge in northern Saskatchewan and putt-putting past an island late in the evening near dusk. (It never gets completely dark in midsummer in northern Saskatchewan). On an island was a pack of wolves, all howling. To be perfectly honest, it terrified me. I was scared to death of those wolves, staring at us going by with their gleaming yellow eyes. There does seem to be something visceral there. Something buried deep within our DNA. Maybe it&#8217;s their yellow eyes. Something not rational. It was just wolves howling, nothing more. Maybe that explains the illogical hate that still goes on.</p>
<p>My second experience with a wolf was about 10 years ago. I was driving through central Oregon on one of the most empty highways on the planet between John Day and Burns, and a wolf ran across the road in front of me. I literally couldn&#8217;t believe my eyes. I thought it must have been a big German shepherd, way out in the Strawberry Range in the middle of nowhere, but its legs had been much too long. A German shepherd would not be 30 miles from the nearest town running around on stilts. It was definitely a wolf. There weren&#8217;t supposed to be any wolves yet in Oregon, but in the next few months, I started reading about wolf sightings in eastern Oregon, then finally I read about wolf sightings near Burns. I was one of the first people to ever spot a wolf in Oregon!</p>
<p>Wolves were removed from the Endangered Species List last year except in Wyoming &#8212; because Wyoming refuses to impose a valid wolf management plan. When wolves were briefly removed from the ESA protected list in Wyoming a year or two ago, Wyoming&#8217;s &#8220;management plan&#8221; turned out to be, &#8220;shoot all wolves on sight &#8212; NOW.&#8221; I am quite literally not exaggerating.</p>
<p>Montana&#8217;s system is more sane, though I believe hunters are being allowed to harvest too many wolves.<br />
What isn&#8217;t sane is the rhetoric you see in the letters to the editor. Here are a few examples:</p>
<blockquote><p>I recently received e-mails from friends showing mother cows with their rectums and female organs torn from their bodies by the wolves. These cows were lying down and the blood and raw meat trailed down on their legs. You could tell they were in awful pain. I am sure hundreds of our deer and elk are suffering the same way.<br />
All you wolf lovers should take a good look at these pictures and share them with your families and your children, show them what these savage animals are really all about. Anyone that supports these evil acts are evil themselves. Society would not allow a domestic dog or a human to do these tortuous acts with out punishment.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The only way is to get rid of them. We&#8217;re complaining about a &#8216;land piranha&#8217; that was dumped on us and kills everything.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>At nights when I let my small dogs and cats out to do their business, I hear the howl of the packs from east and west. It scares the hell out my dogs and cats but generates true fear in me; what have we become, a sacrifice zone?</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>What about the ranch near Dillon, where last July wolves killed 26 domestic sheep in one night? In August they returned to &#8220;surplus kill&#8221; another 122 head. Since they didn&#8217;t eat them, we must assume they &#8220;honed&#8221; their instincts pretty well on those two occasions. Because we are now told they don&#8217;t kill for fun, must we assume that the wolves didn&#8217;t enjoy these killing rampages?<br />
The uninformed may buy some of their poppycock, but the facts are that wolves are intelligent, capable killing machines that seem to enjoy doing what they do best &#8211; kill. Sometimes they even eat what they kill!</p></blockquote>
<p>Now, don&#8217;t get me wrong. I actually have some sympathy for the ranchers who lose sheep or calves to wolves. Their losses are legitimate. There are legitimate questions about what is the &#8220;right&#8221; number of wolves in the Rocky Mountains and how well that coincides with ranching. Remember, some of these people have had their farms and ranches for over 100 years and I&#8217;m not looking to drive ranchers out of business. Truth be told, though, ranchers probably still lose more head to mountain lions, coyotes and loose dogs than they do to wolves.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have as much sympathy for hunters bitching about wolves taking elk. Big deal, when you buy a hunting license, that doesn&#8217;t give you a &#8220;right&#8221; to a kill. It gives you a right to &#8220;try.&#8221; Most biologists will tell you there are actually too many elk in the Rockies (there are definitely too many deer), but the bitchy hunters just want to make an easy kill while sitting in their backs of their pickups. Geez, they might actually have to hike a mile or two to bag an elk. And they might not bag one at all. Tough. I&#8217;m OK with hunting and hunters, but not whiny hunters bitching about wolves that are taking the elk they seem to think they&#8217;re entitled to.</p>
<p>But, it&#8217;s the rhetoric that wolves are somehow quite literally &#8220;evil,&#8221; that bugs me. The rhetoric that they&#8217;re completely obliterating the elk and deer (Oh, how did the elk and deer ever manage to survive for millennia around those devious wolves?); that  wolves kill purely for pleasure; that they gonna start breaking into homes and eating babies next. And I am serious. I have actually heard things like that said.<br />
Wolves are animals. Nothing more. They are predators. They eat meat. They don&#8217;t kill for pleasure. Killing is their job; it&#8217;s their niche. They&#8217;re very good at it. They&#8217;ve had about 500,000 years of evolution to learn how to do it.</p>
<p>Wolves are way down the list for most dangerous animals. A dog runnng loose in the neighbourhood represents more danger to you than a wolf. Wolves quite simply don&#8217;t kill people. It&#8217;s not in their DNA.</p>
<p>One person in recorded history has been killed by wolves (In northern Saskatchewan about 10 years ago, a guy was killed by a pack of wolves.) One. In recorded history. In the past 150 years. Meanwhile, hundreds of people have been killed by mountain lions and bears. In that time span, thousands of people have been killed by domestic dogs. Probably hundreds have been killed by horses. The only animals I am afraid of when I go into the backcountry are mountain lions and grizzlies. Black bears are essentially wimps and don&#8217;t scare me too much, unless you get a sow and a cub, and wolves, I don&#8217;t have the slightest fear of. I really hope I have another experience with a wolf in the backcountry before my time is done.</p>
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		<title>A Coalition of Church and State – Introduction</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/planetpov/mfkm/~3/OerCZzbNveU/</link>
		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/09/a-coalition-of-church-and-state-introduction/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>SueInCa</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[GOP]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://planetpov.com/?p=10879</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
I was originally going to write this series of articles in tandem with a partner however I have decided to  move ahead on my own.  I hope I am up to the challenge.   What I will attempt to do is provide some history to understand the Religious Rights beliefs and behavior, but will concentrate more on current [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/imagesCABKYHD31.jpeg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11121" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/imagesCABKYHD31.jpeg" alt="" width="260" height="178" /></a></p>
<p>I was originally going to write this series of articles in tandem with a partner however I have decided to  move ahead on my own.  I hope I am up to the challenge.   What I will attempt to do is provide some history to understand the Religious Rights beliefs and behavior, but will concentrate more on current activities of the people and organizations of the Religious Right so that you will be able to identify them and their players.  I have found this to be extremely beneficial when watching various newscasts.  It is amazing how many people who have a hidden agenda in any given subject are brought in to the discussions as &#8220;subject matter experts&#8221;.</p>
<p>It is my hope that when I have finished, I will have shown you a comprehensive picture of all the different factions and how they are ultimately connected.  I will give you a bit of history because that is important in understanding their beliefs and practices but will also help to unravel the secretness of their current day plans.</p>
<p>Their plans really started to gel back in the 70&#8217;s with the Moral Majority and The Christian Coalition and their push to insinuate themselves seriously into the political arena.  While The Family has worked the political scene for over 60 years, the religious right is fairly new to the scene in comparison.  While they came on to the scene at different times, their beliefs and intentions are one and the same.  At best, there is a very blurry line between them, but make no mistake they are working in conjunction to dominate the world at large.</p>
<p>What I plan to do is to break it down in to several mini articles, and these articles will be:</p>
<p>The History of the Christian Right</p>
<p>The Mindset of Christian Evangelicals</p>
<p>The Players, Their Organizations</p>
<p>How these Organizations Impact America and the International Community</p>
<p>The Consequences of their Influence/Reference Material</p>
<p>Wish me luck as I try to relay to you all I have learned through months of research and clicking on link after link to dig deeper in hopes of uncovering the truth.  And that truth is that these people are insinuated into every facet of our lives with a mindset of Dominionism and forcing their brand of religion on ultimately the Global community at large.  My first article of the series will be out this coming Wednesday, March 10, 2010.</p>
<p>I also want to give a big thanks to Adlib for helping me to name the series.  I am not having problems with content but was stuck on what to name the series.  Anyway, thank you Adlib, I knew your creative mind would come through for me.</p>
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		<title>Holi Hai! (or Tha)</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/planetpov/mfkm/~3/t6xdGiqCXl4/</link>
		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/09/holi-hai-or-tha/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Khirad</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Film]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[India Holi Religion]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://planetpov.com/?p=11105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
Holi (pronounced ho-lee), also known as Phagwa, is marked at the transition from the Hindu months Phalguna to Chaitra. The Hindu calendar being lunisolar, this date changes every year. In 2010 it fell on March 1st. Besides India, Nepal and Sri Lanka, it is observed by the South Asian diaspora in all its regional varieties [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/holihai.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11156" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/holihai-300x107.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="107" /></a><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/holi_title.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11157" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/holi_title-300x198.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="198" /></a></p>
<p>Holi (pronounced <em>ho-lee</em>), also known as Phagwa, is marked at the transition from the Hindu months Phalguna to Chaitra. The Hindu calendar being lunisolar, this date changes every year. In 2010 it fell on March 1st. Besides India, Nepal and Sri Lanka, it is observed by the South Asian diaspora in all its regional varieties throughout Europe, America, Canada, Australia, in New Zealand, South Africa, and of course, Suriname, Trinidad, Mauritius and Fiji which are notable countries where South Asians were brought for labor and now constitute a significant proportion of the population.</p>
<p><strong>Background.</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/vaishnava.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11139" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/vaishnava.jpg" alt="" width="59" height="36" /></a><strong>Vaishnava</strong></p>
<p>In a timeless past of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_yuga" target="_blank">Satya Yuga</a>, a ruler from a race of giants, known as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daitya" target="_blank"><em>Daityas</em></a>, held power and riches unrivaled, except by his own attire. Thus, he was known as <em>Hiranyakashipu</em>, or, &#8216;Golden-robed&#8217;. After performing austerities (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapas_%28Sanskrit%29" target="_blank"><em>tapas</em></a>) and being granted a boon by <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma" target="_blank">Brahma</a> which had made him nearly invincible, the &#8216;Demon King&#8217; attacked the Heavens, lorded over earth, demanded people worship him, and squandered his wealth on destruction and his own greatness, even challenging <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra" target="_blank">Lord Indra</a>.</p>
<p>This all was at odds with his own son, Prahlada, a pious devotee of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu" target="_blank">Lord Vishnu</a>; a <em>Vaishnava</em>, whom sought to correct his father in the right virtues of a Maharaja and to guide him in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti" target="_blank"><em>Bhakti</em></a> realization of the Supreme Soul by renouncing avarice and absorbing his thoughts on Him. This only made his father furious,</p>
<blockquote><p><span style="font-family: Georgia">[T]he<em> daitya </em>ruler daunted upon seeing       how the attempts ran futile, devised with determination for a       variety of ways to kill him. </span><span style="font-family: Georgia">Crushing him with an elephant, attacking with the king&#8217;s       poisonous snakes, with spells of doom, throwing him from       heights, conjuring tricks, imprisoning him, administering venom       and subjecting him to starvation, cold, wind, fire and water       and with piling rocks upon him, was the demon unable to put his       son, the sinless one, to death&#8230; (<em>Srimad Bhagavata Purana</em>, <a href="http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto7/chapter5.html" target="_blank">7.5.42-4</a>)</span></p></blockquote>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia">And yet, the boy through hi</span><span style="font-family: Georgia">s devotion to the Lord was protected from his father&#8217;s persecution time and time again. At long last his father&#8217;s wrath brought him before the court, and challenged to see this God who could challenge his own deific powers. He would try to kill his son himself this time, but before the boy&#8217;s head could be severed by his father who scoffed that no one could save him, God made his omnipresence known to all assembled from a pillar. The universe cracked open, and a cacophony of sounds and kaleidoscopic dimensions could be seen; the omnipresence of God within everything.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narasimha" target="_blank">Narasimha</a>, the fourth <em>avatara</em> of Vish</span><span style="font-family: Georgia">nu, a hybrid with man&#8217;s torso and lion&#8217;s head then appeared from this pillar and mauled the Demon King Hiranyakashipu </span><em> </em><span style="font-family: Georgia">to shreds. The king had used a boon from Brahma gained by devotion for evil; thus God had to manifest himself in earthly form to correct this terrorizing and subjection of earth and heavens alike.</span></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/prahlada.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-11140 aligncenter" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/prahlada-224x300.jpg" alt="" width="176" height="238" /></a></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia">Among the schemes </span><span style="font-family: Georgia">Hiranyakashipu hatched against his son was when he asked his sister to have Prahlada to sit in her lap in a bonfire. </span><span style="font-family: Georgia">Hiranyakashipu&#8217;s</span><span style="font-family: Georgia"> sister had received a special boon that gave her immunity to fire. However; she was burned to death and Prahlad saved. There are <a href="http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Holika#Origin_of_Holika_Dahan" target="_blank">numerous accounts</a> as to the reason for this, but suffice it to say, the sister of the king died and good triumphed. </span><span style="font-family: Georgia"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia">Hiranyakashipu&#8217;s sister was named Holika, from which Holi is believed to derive. It is this event that Holi celebrates in <em>Holika Dahan</em> (the burning of Holika), in which bonfires are lit, primarily in North India, the day before Holi. Originally these included effigies of Holika, but in most parts this is now replaced by a simple pyre. Comparisons to their fellow Aryans&#8217; (if only common traditional heritage; I have no intent of opening the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration" target="_blank">Aryan Invasion Theory</a> can of worms here) celebration of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaharshanbe_Suri" target="_blank">Cheharshanbe-Souri</a> in Iran and indeed, bonfire spring festivals in Indo-European cultures throughout Europe, are readily seen. The triumph of light over darkness.<br />
</span></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/shaiva.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11138" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/shaiva.jpg" alt="" width="47" height="35" /></a><strong>Shaivite</strong></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia">The main story as recounted and summarized above, can be considered by some to be a Vaishnava polemic, with </span>Hiranyakashipu representing <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva" target="_blank">Lord Shiva</a>. As such, given where you are, an alternate account is of Kama and Shiva.</p>
<p>As recounted in the <em>Saura Purana</em>, there was another daitya called Taraka whom had achieved a boon from Brahma after severe austerities. He asked for the boon of being invincible to the gods; and like Hiranyakashipu, effectively immortal. Of course, Brahma thought this too much so asked for an exception. The wily Taraka made the condition that only the child of Shiva could kill him. Shiva was doing penance and lost in himself after losing his first wife, Dakshayani (which is the subject of another famous myth which is the source of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_%28practice%29" target="_blank">practice of <em>sati</em></a>; Sati being another name for Dakshayani), therefore Taraka had reasoned that Shiva would be unable to produce a son.</p>
<p>Of course, Taraka does what demons granted boons of immense power by Brahma do, he terrorizes the universe of gods and men. He battles Vishnu for 30,000 years alone, but Vishnu has to retreat in confusion and hide. Beleaguered, the gods meet with Brahma, who tells them of Taraka&#8217;s weakness. They hatch a plan.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parvati" target="_blank">Parvati</a>, who had realized she was the reincarnated Dakshayani from a young age, and had performed severe penances for Shiva&#8217;s hand in marriage, was put before Shiva. The only problem, is that Shiva was absorbed in yogic asceticism, having renounced the world after the loss of his first wife. So, Kama (yes, as in the <em>Kama Sutra</em>; and, counterpart to Greek Eros; Cupid) is enjoined to put lust into Shiva and wake him from his trance to produce the progeny that will defeat Taraka.</p>
<p>But, when Shiva awakens from his meditation after being immovable by either Parvati or Kama, he sees Parvati there, and then, sees Kama with his five flowered arrow drawn in its bow and aimed at him. Shiva&#8217;s third-eye shoots forth a fire accumulated in his <em>tapas</em> and incinerates Kama by its own power independent of Shiva&#8217;s will. Parvati is now distressed, and rebukes Shiva. It is now that she asks for her boon from him, having suffered as an example to all <em>yoginis</em> past and present. She asks that Kama be revived. Consenting, Shiva replies, &#8220;Let [Kama] be without a body in order to please you, lady with beautiful eyes. In that form he will be able to shake the world.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/shivaparvati.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11141" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/shivaparvati-207x300.jpg" alt="" width="184" height="268" /></a></p>
<p>Long story short, Shiva and Parvati beget Skanda (the Hindu &#8216;Ares&#8217;), who destroys Taraka. In South India, Holi is thus referred to as <em>Kama Dahanam</em>. But of course, the larger lesson was the victory of love, for now the disembodied Kama, with his wife Rati, could flit from one corner of the earth to another like the wind. In this context, Holi is like an Indian Valentine&#8217;s Day.</p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/radhakrishna.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11142" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/radhakrishna.jpg" alt="" width="102" height="27" /></a><strong>Radha Krishna</strong></p>
<p>In this spirit, the <em>Ras-Lila</em> is celebrated (literally, &#8216;Passion Play&#8217; and quite different from the Christian form, of course!); particularly in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathura,_Uttar_Pradesh" target="_blank">Mathura</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrindavan" target="_blank">Vrindavan</a>, where <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna" target="_blank">Lord Krishna</a> (the eighth avatara of Vishnu) was born and the place of the Ras-Lila, respectively. The Ras-Lila is the all-famous tale of the <em>gopis&#8217;</em> (milk maidens) love and adoration of the perfect youth Krishna, who playfully teased them mercilessly in the 10th Book of the <em>Srimad Bhagavata Purana</em> (not to be confused with the <em>Bhagavad Gita</em> of the <em>Mahabharata</em>), and the tryst between him and Radha, whom is never actually named, in <a href="http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto10/chapter30.html" target="_blank">chapter 30</a>, where she is only a mystery woman held in awed jealousy by the pining gopis who follow the couple&#8217;s footsteps into the forest. This story with elaborations is a staple of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhajan" target="_blank"><em>bhajans</em></a> and Indian poetry, drama, and naturally, today&#8217;s transmitter of myth, Bollywood <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwMM21jGdHs" target="_blank">(here&#8217;s an example)</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/radhakrishna1.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11154" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/radhakrishna1-225x300.jpg" alt="" width="237" height="316" /></a></p>
<p>A word of warning. To suggest anything unchaste about Radha, or to reduce Krishna to a Casanova, to suggest anything sexual at all beyond romantic metaphor, is extremely offensive to devout Hindus; particularly Vaishnavas. It has an invective history with the Christian missionaries and continues to this day on Christianist supremacist websites. Having said this word of warning though, of Holi, the entry in <em>A Dictionary of Hinduism</em> says,</p>
<blockquote><p>A spring festival dedicated to Krishna and the gopis. It took the place of an earlier kind of Saturnalia, &#8216;the survival of a primitive fertility ritual, combining erotic games, &#8220;comic operas&#8221; and folk dancing&#8217;. Some of the earlier elements remain, such as the singing of suggestive songs, the throwing of coloured water, and jumping over bonfires, the ashes of which are believed to possess magical powers.</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed, I tend to take this view, and see the other myths as later accretions or adaptations to an earlier Indo-European fertility festival, as do I see the Radha-Krishna relationship a sublimation of an earlier myth. During Holi, caste distinctions are suspended, and the sexes may mix freely; likely customs surviving from the ubiquitous &#8220;safety valve&#8221; many early cultures observed at least once a year -- just as modern ones do to this day.</p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/khelen.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11143" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/khelen.jpg" alt="" width="38" height="31" /></a><strong>Playing</strong></p>
<p>In a 7th century play, <em>Ratnavali</em>, it was said,</p>
<blockquote><p>Witness the beauty of the great cupid festival which excites curiosity as the townsfolk are dancing at the touch of brownish water thrown from squirt-guns.</p>
<p>They are seized by pretty women while all along the roads the air is filled with singing and drum-beating.</p>
<p>Everything is coloured yellowish red and rendered dusty by the heaps of scented powder blown all over.</p></blockquote>
<p><cite></cite>This is the first recording of Dhulhendi, the day of Holi most recognizable today. Let me set the scene. You know nothing of Holi, you are a visitor in India. This delightful scenario is played in this scene from the 2006 film, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsourced" target="_blank">&#8220;Outsourced&#8221;</a>:</p>
<p style="text-align: center"><!-- Smart Youtube --><span class="youtube"><object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T9OY4bIbRQ0&amp;rel=1&amp;color1=234900&amp;color2=4e9e00&amp;border=0&amp;fs=1&amp;hl=en&amp;autoplay=0&amp;showinfo=0&amp;iv_load_policy=3&amp;showsearch=0" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><embed wmode="transparent" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T9OY4bIbRQ0&amp;rel=1&amp;color1=234900&amp;color2=4e9e00&amp;border=0&amp;fs=1&amp;hl=en&amp;autoplay=0&amp;showinfo=0&amp;iv_load_policy=3&amp;showsearch=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="355" ></embed><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /></object></span></p>
<p style="text-align: left"><strong>Instruments of Fun:</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/abiraurgulal.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11144" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/abiraurgulal.jpg" alt="" width="161" height="35" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><strong>Abir and Gulal -  colored powders</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/gulal.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11145" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/gulal-300x201.jpg" alt="" width="263" height="175" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left">Originally made from natural dyes, some with Ayurvedic properties, there has been concern over toxic ingredients in recent years, and a move towards organic products. The symbolism with spring, of course, is self-evident.</p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/pichkari.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11146" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/pichkari.jpg" alt="" width="93" height="31" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><strong>Pichkari -- soaker type of syringe</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/kidspichkari.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11147" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/kidspichkari-165x300.jpg" alt="" width="165" height="300" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left">While many of these still retain their <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/79548398@N00/406556412/sizes/o/" target="_blank">traditional design</a>, many more kids can be seen with super soakers and custom pichkaris with Bollywood actors and actresses, cartoon characters and other themes, even in shapes like elephants or one designed as a <a href="http://www.hindu.com/2008/03/21/stories/2008032153780500.htm" target="_blank">bow and arrow</a> (like the ancient Hindu heroes).</p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/bhang.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11148" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/bhang.jpg" alt="" width="48" height="32" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: center"><strong>Bhang</strong></p>
<p style="text-align: left"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Bhanglassi.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11149" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Bhanglassi-225x300.jpg" alt="" width="225" height="300" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left">Bhang, made from grinding cannabis leaves and flowers into a paste is mixed into chilled drinks and munchie snacks alike. The signature drink of Holi is <em>thandai</em>, a milk based drink flavored with pistachios, almonds, and, of course, marijuana! But, a bhang lassi can also be whipped up, as seen above. Oh, and if you happen upon a sadhu in Varanasi, see if they will pass the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chillum_%28pipe%29" target="_blank">chillum</a>. This is one of a few times where social use of marijuana is acceptable, though generally not by women (patriarchal societies&#8217; &#8216;designated drivers&#8217;). Watch this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NODWV_6-Pos" target="_blank">Bollywood song</a> with the information and vocabulary you have just gained!</p>
<p style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/holamahalla.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11150" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/holamahalla.jpg" alt="" width="92" height="37" /></a><strong>Hola Mohalla</strong></p>
<p>Although not widely celebrated in Pakistan, in India Holi is now a secular holiday celebrated by all: Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Jain, Christian, Jew, Parsi, Sikh, atheist, etc. The day after Holi, as well, is the closely related Sikh holiday of <a href="http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Hola_mohalla" target="_blank">Hola Mohalla</a>, most visible in the Sikh homeland of Indian Punjab. In warrior-saint Guru Gobind Singh&#8217;s martial tradition, Sikhs will mock fights, sing, play music, recite poetry and <a href="http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kirtan" target="_blank">kirtans</a>, and eat communally, as is per Sikh practice.</p>
<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/tempesikhs.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11152" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/tempesikhs-300x236.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="236" /></a></p>
<p>So, alas, to explain my title. It is common to say &#8220;Holi hai!&#8221; which means &#8220;it&#8217;s Holi!&#8221; as a greeting. Unfortunately, due to timing, I fell off on writing this, and thus added the Hindi &#8216;was&#8217;, <em>tha</em>, to reflect the belated nature of this article.</p>
<p>To end with, I only chose one Bollywood Holi song among a plethora of possibilities, as this one clearly lays out several elements outlined herein and brings it to life! (plus my crush on Rani Mukerji didn&#8217;t hurt the selection process)</p>
<p style="text-align: center"><!-- Smart Youtube --><span class="youtube"><object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4o8Cslm9uNc&amp;rel=1&amp;color1=234900&amp;color2=4e9e00&amp;border=0&amp;fs=1&amp;hl=en&amp;autoplay=0&amp;showinfo=0&amp;iv_load_policy=3&amp;showsearch=0" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><embed wmode="transparent" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4o8Cslm9uNc&amp;rel=1&amp;color1=234900&amp;color2=4e9e00&amp;border=0&amp;fs=1&amp;hl=en&amp;autoplay=0&amp;showinfo=0&amp;iv_load_policy=3&amp;showsearch=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="355" ></embed><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /></object></span></p>
<h3 style="text-align: center"><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Holimubarak.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-11158" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Holimubarak.jpg" alt="" width="190" height="52" /></a><strong>Holi Mubarak! -- Happy Holi!</strong></h3>
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		<title>The Noseless Face</title>
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		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/09/the-noseless-face/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Marion</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Healthcare Reform]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[News & Politics]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://planetpov.com/?p=11137</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So it&#8217;s come to this on the eve of a possible passage of healthcare reform, arguably the most important and far-reaching legislation to be passed by Congress since Civil Rights and Medicare came into being in the mid-1960s.
The passage of the Senate Bill in the House hangs by the thread of Denis Kucinich&#8217;s vote, whilst [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/health-care-300x3001.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-5151" title="health-care-300x300" src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/health-care-300x3001.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="300" /></a>So it&#8217;s come to this on the eve of a possible passage of healthcare reform, arguably the most important and far-reaching legislation to be passed by Congress since Civil Rights and Medicare came into being in the mid-1960s.</p>
<p>The passage of the Senate Bill in the House hangs by the thread of Denis Kucinich&#8217;s vote, whilst celebrity blogger, Jane Hamsher, weighs in with a clarion call for the resignation of Lynne Woolsey, co-chair of the Progressive Caucus in the House and one of the most liberal members in that body.</p>
<p>Kucinich, who voted against the House bill, itself, siding with the Republicans, in early November, is holding out and tilting at windmills for nothing less than a single-payer program to be implemented. Hamsher&#8217;s demand for Woolsey&#8217;s resignation is a result of Woolsey, another Representative who voted with the Opposition in November, having held her nose and indicated that she would pass the Senate bill on the understanding that a possible public option might be considered on reconciliation.</p>
<p>She compromised, which is what a great deal of our politics &#8211; indeed, most politics in the civilised world &#8211; is all about: debate, discuss and compromise. She recognised the importance of not wimping out on the one-yard line. She accepted the fact that most pieces of important legislation begin life as a base on which better legislation can be built.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s not enough for Hamsher, who&#8217;s not averse to crawling into political bed with the likes of Grover Norquist, spiritual father-confessor of the Teabagging Movement, in an attempt to kill the healthcare bill. In doing this, Hamsher naively thinks that the whole of the Congress, with the President dancing attendance, will sit down again and consider that single-payer is the only route to healthcare the country can afford to take.</p>
<p>Maybe it is. Maybe it&#8217;s not. I&#8217;ve lived with a single-payer system in the UK  for almost 29 years. I&#8217;ve seen it at its best, and I&#8217;ve seen it at its worst. Is the quality of care comparable to anything we have in the US? Quite honestly, I have to say no &#8211; considering the private health insurance that I carried when I taught school in the States, no. Sometimes, you luck out here and get good nurses, doctors who&#8217;ll spend time with you and answer your questions and efficient bureaucracy.  Sometimes shit happens.</p>
<p>At the moment, corporate influence is worming its way into the system in the shape and form of the genial figure of Richard Branson. Gordon Brown has allowed him to buy into however many medical practices that he can afford &#8211; and being Richard Branson, that will be a lot &#8211; becoming, effectively, a sleeping partner and investing in the running costs and salaries of officials associated with those medical practices. These will be renamed, collectively, Virgin Health (along with Virgin Travel, Virgin Money, Virgin Communications, Virgin Television and Virgin Broadband). I suspect this means that other tycoons will take over other medical practices and before you can sneeze, we&#8217;ll be paying handsomely (and privately) to see our GP, to have various and sundry tests run, which - under the old National Health &#8211; would have all been free at source.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a sneaky way to cut services offered, whilst increasing the extra tax charged here to fund healthcare, the National Insurance. Everyone pays proportionate to their income. At least, Maggie Thatcher was honest enough to say outright that she was cutting dentistry and optical care out of the package.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also still American enough to know that a single-payer system - indeed, any universal healthcare system &#8211; will, inevitably, mean an increase in taxes, overall &#8211; something that sticks in the craw of most Americans of any political persuasion.</p>
<p>Suffice it to say that single-payer is a non-starter; but that doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that it won&#8217;t happen, for better or for worse.</p>
<p>Hamsher made waves a few months ago, when the Senate was preparing to pass its healthcare bill when she infamously joined forces Norquist in an effort to kill the Healthcare bill. This was grandstanding at its worst and, also, incredibly naive; for Hamsher thought that, almost immediately, this would force Congress to sit down at a table and start again from scratch with healthcare reform, effectively hammering through a single-player plan.</p>
<p>As if.</p>
<p>The last time healthcare got bitch-slapped into submission (and by a Democratic Congress) was when Bill Clinton despatched Hillary to the Hill with a fully formulated healthcare plan to place before their hallowed portals.</p>
<p>She got pretty short shrift, and that was almost 17 years ago.</p>
<p>Within the political system, itself, we now hear that Nancy Pelosi is redoubling all efforts, with the help of the President, in trying to convince a recalcitrant Denis Kucinich to support passage of this bill.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not the biggest fan of Kucinich, but I admire him as a man of principle. He seems to be one of the few serving politicos who&#8217;s remained true to his core beliefs. However, this is a seminal moment in United States political history.</p>
<p>We are about to be presented with an actual healthcare program, which would ensure coverage of an additional 30,000,000 people, making this almost universal in concept. Is it a great piece of legislation? No. It&#8217;s not perfect, but &#8211; as everyone&#8217;s said endlessly &#8211; neither was Social Security in its original form. But it gives us a platform, a foundation upon which to build &#8211; and legislation, in the form of an amendment tacked onto an existing law, is something that only requires 51 Senate votes in order to bring it into being.</p>
<p>That Kucinich has now become the Lieberman of the House, holding out on a hiding to nothing in a quixotic attempt to force single-payer into the equation &#8211; <em>single-payer not the ubiquitous public option</em> &#8211; ceases to be harmless windmill tilting and becomes, in its stead, the proverbial straw that&#8217;s going to break the camel&#8217;s back of healthcare reform in the United States.</p>
<p>This begs the question, cynic that I am, of when, exactly, one&#8217;s ego overrides one&#8217;s principles, at the expense of one&#8217;s constituents? Because politicos of all persuasion, to have even arrived at the door of the national legislative body, need an ego of considerable dimensions. A situation like this would put the most milquetoast of men in a position to wield enormous power with equally enormous demands, should he choose. We all remember Joe Lieberman&#8217;s and Ben Nelson&#8217;s antics.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s moments like these when I think that the US Congress &#8211; and, in particular, this fractured Democratic Party &#8211; would benefit from a stronger &#8216;whip&#8217; system, which is used in the British House of Commons. The political whips actually <em>do </em>figuratively whip their party members into a situation where they are compelled to vote the party line. To refuse to do so, for whatever principle, results in what is known as a <em>withdrawal of the whip.</em> Put bluntly, the recalcitrant member is unceremoniously kicked out of his respective party. He can still serve as an elected member, but the next time there&#8217;s a general election, he has to find a new group of playmates or beg forgiveness of his party leaders. It happened to George Galloway. It happened to Clare Short. No one is too big for the party.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve no doubt that Kucinich is devoted to the principle of seeing single-payer firmly ensconced as a Third Rail in the American healthcare system. Bernie Sanders is also, but Sanders, a real Independent, knows that sometimes it&#8217;s mete to swallow hard and be pragmatic &#8211; one of the rules of political life you&#8217;d think a seasoned campaigner like Kucinich would know. Yet I also can&#8217;t help wonder how much this incident is Kucinich&#8217;s big moment in the spotlight, his chance to be Napoleon for the day, and which might turn into his jump-the-shark moment.</p>
<p>On a Napoleonic scale, he&#8217;d do well to remember that Jim DeMint, NOPer extraordinaire, has sworn to make healthcare reform Obama&#8217;s Waterloo. The House bill which passed in November did so on the strength of 5 votes, and one of those didn&#8217;t belong to Kucinich. Since that time, the lone Republican who voted for the bill has been bullied into seeing sense by his political &#8216;betters.&#8217; Jack Murtha has died. Another Congressman switched parties and a fourth resigned. If the one vote that&#8217;s the difference between healthcare and health hell is Denis Kucinich, imagine the irony of this Democratic Napoleon effecting his own party&#8217;s Waterloo.</p>
<p>From that moment onward, Obama would become a lame duck President, and the Democratic Party would be seen to be shallow, divided and incapable (as well as unworthy) of governing.</p>
<p>Jane Hamsher is a private citizen. As such, she &#8211; like any other private citizen &#8211; is entitled to call for the resignation of any public official. That&#8217;s her right, just as it&#8217;s the official&#8217;s right to ignore the demand. But the demand got her the attention (and her blogsite, the clicks) she sought. With that in mind, I&#8217;d like to call for the resignation of the 5 conservative members of the Supreme Court, who have played god to create corporate personhood, my Congressman, Frank Wolf, for spending most of his spare time on his knees in the C Street cathouse, and Eric Cantor, because I don&#8217;t like the smirk on his face, as well as his politics.</p>
<p>But it ain&#8217;t gonna happen, is it?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s unfortunate that the single-payer option was never in the running to be adopted as the universal healthcare system in the US, but if the entire healthcare reform process is derailed because of the stubborn pride masqueraded and paraded as an unbending principle of a United States Congressman, then that&#8217;s more than unfortunate. It&#8217;s a totally unmitigated tragedy.</p>
<p>The pride of a high-profiled Leftie like Hamsher and a Democratic Congressman of Kucinich&#8217;s ilk goeth mightily before a fall of a political party, which might find itself in the wilderness of opposition for the far and foreseeable future.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, I hope both Kucinich and Hamsher won&#8217;t miss the noses they&#8217;ve cut off their faces much. At least, they&#8217;ll be spared the stench that comes with a Republican administration &#8211; or the smell of mooseburgers roasting on the White House barbecue.</p>
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		<title>Vox Populi – 3-5-2010</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/planetpov/mfkm/~3/TtrBVs6PHbE/</link>
		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/08/vox-populi-3-5-2010/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>AdLib</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Vox Populi Archives]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://planetpov.com/?p=11103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[AdLib is online.



AdLib :  Patsy &#8211; I was actually surprised that it wasn&#8217;t already taken.


Khirad :  Excellent news on the URL. See you guys on the other side.


PatsyT :  See you there


AdLib :  Well, looks like we&#8217;ve reached the end of tonight&#8217;s Vox Populi! The chat can continue at the connected [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div id="usersOnline">AdLib is online.</div>
<ul id="outputList">
<li id="comment-new7068">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Patsy &#8211; I was actually surprised that it wasn&#8217;t already taken.</li>
<li id="comment-new7067">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Excellent news on the URL. See you guys on the other side.</li>
<li id="comment-new7066">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  See you there</li>
<li id="comment-new7065">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Well, looks like we&#8217;ve reached the end of tonight&#8217;s Vox Populi! The chat can continue at the connected post here: <a rel="nofollow" href="../2010/03/05/vox-populi-afterchat-3-5-2010/">«link»</a></li>
<li id="comment-new7064">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  I like the name and the site name</li>
<li id="comment-new7063">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  To begin, it will be hosted at WordPress. Funds will need to be raised to host it independently. Though, the voting is clear, GROWdemocracy.or g is the most popular so I have gone ahead and secured that URL.</li>
<li id="comment-new7062">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Will that be a . org ?</li>
<li id="comment-new7061">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Ooh, inside scoop.</li>
<li id="comment-new7060">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Night Kes!</li>
<li id="comment-new7059">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Psst&#8230;I&#8217;ve already setup a free Wordpress site for GROW as GROWdemocracy but I&#8217;m waiting until we&#8217;ve firmed up everything to announce it formally.</li>
<li id="comment-new7058">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Nighty Night Kes</li>
<li id="comment-new7057">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Good night, all! &#8220;Always look on the bright si-ide of life, ta-dum ta-dum!&#8221;</li>
<li id="comment-new7056">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  I bet there is a pill for that</li>
<li id="comment-new7055">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  GROW is really growing on me</li>
<li id="comment-new7054">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  GROW has tremendous potential I think. We owe j&#8217;avaz for that one!</li>
<li id="comment-new7053">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Well, click-clack (Python) and goodnight kes!</li>
<li id="comment-new7052">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Hey Kes you have fought the good fight</li>
<li id="comment-new7051">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  My 6 year old thinks Python is very funny. Just watched a Tivo&#8217;d episode tonight.</li>
<li id="comment-new7050">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Well, as old Dubya used to say, I&#8217;m starting to lose altitude. I may have to call it a day, friends. (After midnight here.)</li>
<li id="comment-new7049">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Who knows, if GROW works out, we could crosspost videos of our satirical protests on YouTube, GROW&#8217;s site and Funny or Die.</li>
<li id="comment-new7048">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  My kids are watching Monty Python Holy Grail</li>
<li id="comment-new7047">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  OK in the great here after</li>
<li id="comment-new7046">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Patsy &#8211; You can post links to videos here but not embedded. I will be setting up the AfterChat article, you could post them there.</li>
<li id="comment-new7045">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Yes, we saw the Funny or Die. Too bad Phil Hartman is no longer with us&#8230;</li>
<li id="comment-new7044">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Oh&#8230;hi there, AdLib&#8230;didn&#8217;t see you come back in the room. Heh-heh.</li>
<li id="comment-new7043">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Can I post vids on here ?</li>
<li id="comment-new7042">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Did you see the &#8220;Funny or Die&#8221; one of all the Presidents Past visiting Obama and Michelle in their Whitehouse bedroom?</li>
<li id="comment-new7041">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  I&#8217;m back now, I&#8217;ll just sit in my chair&#8230;hey who put a tack on it? And quit throwing those spitballs! Get off your desks this instant! You&#8217;re all in a lot of trouble now!</li>
<li id="comment-new7040">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  I&#8217;ll look it up and post  very funny</li>
<li id="comment-new7039">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  What Gilly skit?</li>
<li id="comment-new7038">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Patsy, didn&#8217;t see the Gilly skit. Tell!</li>
<li id="comment-new7037">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  That costco is a trip</li>
<li id="comment-new7036">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Behind the gym &#8211; ouch, I got caught &#8211; not another detention!</li>
<li id="comment-new7035">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Not me. It was Khirad. And he won&#8217;t share what he&#8217;s smoking either.</li>
<li id="comment-new7034">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Has Anyone seen that Gilly skit on SNL</li>
<li id="comment-new7033">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Maybe we can bake some into brownies for Sister Sarah!</li>
<li id="comment-new7032">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Who is smoking?  you are going to get it!</li>
<li id="comment-new7031">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Hey that slug stuff looks like it can work for Rush and bushes brain that rove slug</li>
<li id="comment-new7030">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Here, Snailie, Snailie!! Here, boy! Try some of this yummy stuff!</li>
<li id="comment-new7029">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Kes Thats the ticket !! Hey mitch&#8230;</li>
<li id="comment-new7028">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  I&#8217;m chewing gum. A whole pack of it!</li>
<li id="comment-new7027">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  I am jumping on the table YIPPEE</li>
<li id="comment-new7026">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Patsy, let&#8217;s buy some of that and make an appointment with Mitch McConnell.</li>
<li id="comment-new7025">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  LOL Patsy! Yes kes, teacher&#8217;s away!</li>
<li id="comment-new7024">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Oh wow, now we can really go nuts and act up!</li>
<li id="comment-new7023">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Kh at Costco the other day I saw a huge palette of some stuff they labeled SLUG AND SNAIL DEATH They are selling Death !! at a discount , of course</li>
<li id="comment-new7022">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Have to pop away for a few minutes, will be right back&#8230;</li>
<li id="comment-new7021">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Patsy, you&#8217;re right. The Baggers are mad at all the wrong people. And a lot of the people they&#8217;re mad at are the ones who aren&#8217;t in a particularly good position to fight back.</li>
<li id="comment-new7020">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Night Cher!</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Online communications hone my arguments in the real world too. Particularly when battling a slightly more capable troll.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Nighty Night Cher</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Good night, Cher!</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Bye Cher!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Patsy &#8211; I see the CoffeeParty thing the same way, well intentioned but no focus, way too general and kumbaya for my taste. Accept that there are rotten people out there who you can&#8217;t work with, band together to become a force for good and don&#8217;t expect that you can bring everyone together. You can&#8217;t.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  The Baggers need to be mad a Haliburton Exxon ect not Obama</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Thanks, AdLib! I know that people may question the value of on-line organizing, but, like c&#8217;lady, I find that the Planet has changed the way I go out into the world and operate or debate issues. Feels different when people have got your back.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Sorry friends, I keep getting called away!  I must bid you all adieu for now.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Haha, Costco! Not bad Patsy. We really have to be better explaining things in accessible terms like that.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Kes &#8211; I&#8217;m very grateful too to have this community to discuss ideas and consider what we can do. Cheers to you and all Planeteers!</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Notice with Obama we have not had any huge gas $$ spikes?</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  You said it, Khirad! Exactly!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Patsy &#8211; I had an emotional reaction of anger every time I saw or see a Hummer and even though soccer moms are driving them sometimes, it took a lot of discipline not to say something angry. And remember, Bush and the Repubs put through a law giving people a $5,000 tax break for buying a Hummer!</li>
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<p>Khirad :  The &#8220;invisible hand&#8221; and Capitalism really are like an organized religion. Only, more like a pyramid scheme of a cult sometimes.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  The internet really has been a godsend in uniting people of like minds. I&#8217;m so grateful to be in this group that allows us to strategize and brainstorm. There&#8217;s not much going on locally.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Say aren&#8217;t these bagger types the kind that like Costco, Sams Club, Walmart, they like have collective buying cant they think of the Public Option that way?</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Agree Patsy&#8211; it seems to be nothing but a very smart name.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  It&#8217;s amazing how difficult it is to de-program people who&#8217;ve been trained from childhood to believe that Capitalism is perfect. That the &#8220;invisible hand&#8221; always works to everyone&#8217;s benefit. It&#8217;s almost heresy to suggest otherwise. Certainly considered unpatriotic.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  That</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Tat Coffee thing does not go far enough</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Kes &#8211; The Baggers are proof. Get people riled up enough and they will become active and the numbers will grow. It would be a pseudo-revolutio n and the internet would be key because the MSM would hide such a thing as they did the anti-war protests against launching the Iraq War.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  The numbers would have to be huge, as you say, AdLib. But&#8211;it&#8217;s true&#8211;people are getting desperate enough to consider options they wouldn&#8217;t have a few years ago.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Hummer- that really summed it up -I can see it now in the History books as the height of gluttony and greed</li>
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<p>AdLib :  This is why I think the concept behind GROW is not only timely but the key issue to solving the rot that is destroying this nation.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Yes Kes&#8211; Pogo said it!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Kes, there are not enough Sheriff Joes nor enough prisons to stop 10 million Americans, let alone 100 million. If things get worse for people and better for corps, no amount of policing can stop such a movement, really, a revolution.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Patsy, hey at least the Hummer is no more. I thought I&#8217;d never see that day.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  That&#8217;s more accurate, Cher. In effect they say: &#8220;We have met the enemy is he is us.&#8221; But HE isn&#8217;t!! He&#8217;s the guy in the top 1% of the wealth owners.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Sad that America has gone from &#8220;The Greatest Generation&#8221; volunteering to join the military to fight Hitler and the mindless masses can&#8217;t even focus long enough to remember to oppose the Corps that have taken away their salaries, democracy, kid&#8217;s futures, etc.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  I see a lot of that competition in our neighborhood the biggest SUV&#8217;s driven around by moms with one little kid talking on their cell Ugh!</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Yes, Kes, but I don;t think they blame themselves&#8211; they blame THE POOR! They blame the other schmuck in the same boat and if they themselves are no in trouble, they get to be smug. They never blame the right places becasue, yes, tou are right&#8211; too scary!</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  But AdLib, there are a lot of Sheriff Joes out there, willing to pull out the tasers, the clubs and the weapons to protect the property of the wealthy.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; So do I but hopefully as people in the streets taking over the HQ&#8217;s of Citibank and B of A and Goldman and occupying the homes, boats and jets of all of them. Take it away from them without violence and don&#8217;t budge.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Cher, exactly! Because hearing the truth means that there are big bad powerful forces that we are going to have to take on, and that scares people. It&#8217;s almost easier to blame themselves. Then they can just get high and try to forget about it all.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  tip off like GOLDman SACKS</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Khirad, pls see  my reply ot Kes below.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  blank fine, the name, should have been a tip off</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Adlib&#8211; I hope that happens!!!</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Patsy, we could start by putting Lloyd Blankfein in prison!  <img src="../wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" /> (CEO of Goldman-Sachs)</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Kes, people believe that because it is too painful to believ the truth. No one wants to hear anything that osen;t confrm to their ready-made opinions. No one is open to any inconvenient truths and that cowardice is our undoing.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  The thing is, people have used up so much of their available home equity and credit, the banks have cut their credit and don&#8217;t want to offer more&#8230;and that was what people were using to live The American Dream since their wages have been declining. The buffer is mostly gone so if there is another economic crash or Corps think they can keep robbing from the public, there will be a reckoning.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Economic woes do arouse anger and unrest &#8211; but why is it focused at all the wrong things? This goes back to the original topic.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Where do we go from here ??</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Patsy nailed it: short term memory loss. Plus a good job of brain washing by the right. People now believe that it was only irresponsible borrowers who burst the bubble. That people on unemployment are just lazy. And that HCR is a socialist plot.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  The public is an ass. And back to your original question about hate and suicide killers: What if those crazies killed a CEO? I am afraid I would cheer.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  How can people be against both bailouts AND regulation? &#8230;</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Remember when the crash had just happened, corporate CEOs were hiding out, hiring bodyguards, the public demanded reform and everyone promised to do it. Now that things aren&#8217;t supposedly so bad and people have calmed down, these same corps who were saved with taxpayer money have been doing everything they can to kill HCR and regulation&#8230;and the public is divided on siding with them!</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  We&#8217;re so bloody confrontation-av erse!</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Adlib, agree totally. That&#8217;s just the American psyche. I wish we&#8217;d never bailed out the banks and all suffered then and now, instead of lingering pain.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Hah! We&#8217;re on the same page, AdLib!</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Patsy, yes, and I think the left needs to take a look at the work ethic in some areas. For example, organizing unions is harder that job-surfing and stealing from your employer. But it works out better in the long run.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; Going back to what you and others discussed before, I think it will take an even worse crash and suffering for Americans to get off their overstuffed asses and go out in the streets to take democracy back. That is a terrible thing to wish for, I hope it&#8217;s not the case but unless people are starving and can&#8217;t afford a Snuggy, let alone prescription meds, they just won&#8217;t take the necessary steps.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  I think I worked on something that was more technical (I forget, but it involved looking through a lot of Greek vocab and polisci terms), but plutocracy is generally agreed upon.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  They have sold the Americans the thought that you should not have to work hard for anything and there is a pill for that what ever that is. Remember when Bush used to say he was working hard? Ha Ha Corporations do not want to have to work hard for anything they want the red carpet laid out for them but want the welfare state to get to work no matter how hard that may be</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Khirad, security was called on that one!</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  I do not disagree! But that means we need a leader as never before.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  We are absolutely living in a plutocracy.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Wow, kes, someone was in need of inpatient treatment followed by NA &#8211; forthwith!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Does anyone disagree that we&#8217;re living in a plutocracy?</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  aDLIB That is just do depressing. It is so hard not to turn off, but unfortunately, I cannot just watch American Idol-too boring!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Patsy &#8211; Isn&#8217;t that what the whole Pharma industry is built on, the lie that merged into the American Dream? That you can have it all and never have to work for anything, you can just push a button or take a pill.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  AdLib, I saw that movie. It was brilliant. Yes, the total arrogance of the plutocrats. Didn&#8217;t even attempt to disguise what they were doing!</li>
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<p>Khirad :  AdLib, that reminds me of INGSOC&#8217;s view of the proles&#8230;</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  One of those big Phama ads for quitting smoking</li>
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<p>AdLib :  kes &#8211; In Moore&#8217;s film &#8220;Capitalism&#8221;, he shares a leaked Citibank memo to its biggest investors which explains that the U.S. is already a de facto plutocracy with no real threat in sight. The memo added that technically, the public could take the country back if they banded together as a majority but they didn&#8217;t seem to worried about that happening. The GOP is serving them well, in this environment we might have all come together to bring the corps down to size which is why the division has to be more intense from the corporate stooges, the GOP.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Patsy, that&#8217;s it in a nutshell. I had a patient this past week say that he was going to come back to the hospital and kill me if he didn&#8217;t get discharged with a handfull of prescriptions for narcotics. Demand and ye shall receive. (He didn&#8217;t get them.)</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Patsy&#8211; great comment and I so agree! But what were you referring to?</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Me Me Me I am sick of it! How about that quit smoking ad where the woman says I can take Chantix and Smoke at the same time Ohhh so you can quit and smoke at the same time -not to worry -you do not have to work at anything You can smoke and Quit at the same time so easy for you</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  I didn&#8217;t see the interview, Khirad. But I know what quants are and I understand they have NOT gone away. Not good.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Yeah, the CC thing I&#8217;ve heard, too.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Who saw the interview with the writer of The Quants? These guys are still on Wall St&#8230;</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  AdLib, the bottom line is that they (Wall St.) believe they are more powerful than the government and all the citizenry, then? That&#8217;s a daunting thought!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Oh, I forgot to mention that Michael Moore also mentioned the enormous credit card debt as another crash waiting to happen, debt that can never be repaid and is continuing to increase in record amounts.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Yeah, adlib&#8211; they can always do better with a corporatist administration than with the Dems</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Kes &#8211; If they had that concern, they wouldn&#8217;t have driven the economy off a cliff. They have utter faith in greed and being too big to fail countering democracy, fairness and an angry public.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Kes&#8211; that&#8217;s my question too. The middle class is almost broke, and in debt up to its eyeballs. WHo is gonna buy all the useless crap they want and need to sell us? Or, is the new market going to be credit? No more goods, just credit and carbon credits?</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Sigh. True. Wall St. has enough golden eggs in the freezer to outlast the total destruction of the country itself&#8230;</li>
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<p>Khirad :  And, imagine what would happen to the market if Obama did come down hard? I think they have his balls in a vicegrip &#8211; pardon my salty imagery.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; The greedy don&#8217;t think about what they have, they focus on what they don&#8217;t have and want. They have no sense of conscience or gratitude. They know a Repub Congress and president will loosen regulations and happily cut their taxes.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Painglish = a condition of pidgin poop issuing forth from the mouth of a Hollywood-obsess ed closet-elitist wannabe.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  AdLib&#8211;do those Wall St. guys have any idea, though, what it means to &#8220;kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?&#8221; At what point do they self-destruct?</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; Yes, Rahm is very much responsible for running all the Blue Dogs and ConservaDems and getting them in as saboteurs and extortionists in Congress. He fought and hated Howard Dean who believed that real Dems could win in all 50 states. Dean was right but Rahm undermined him.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Patsy, it worked for Dubya!  <img src="../wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":-D" /></li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Adlib&#8211; they (banks) are doing pretty good w/ Obama as prez, no?</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Cher, that was a big, nasty splash of cold water in my face too.  Grrrrr.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  That&#8217;s not so woo-woo AdLib, actually.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Kes  &#8211; Palinglish a new weapon</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  It was areal wake up for me to realize we&#8217;d won with a phoney majority of DINO&#8217;s. we have no majority, just dome REPtilians who didn&#8217;t want to run as R&#8217;s after Bush, so Rahm scooped em up and said come to Papa! Now, we are more screwed because expectations were that we were actually in power.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  This is what is so frustrating. They are arguing against their own HC plan now, and people are so dense not to get it. Eff them and do it. When the USSA doesn&#8217;t come, they&#8217;ll feel stupid (okay, I&#8217;m being way too generous).</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  But the lies have an after bite  look out repubs</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Not to be a conspiracy therorist but if the banks and Wall Street want a Repub in as president, wouldn&#8217;t it make sense for them, if they&#8217;re in a position to, let the hammer drop on a new economic crash in 2012, before the election?</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Things are still pretty dire, after &#8220;only&#8221; the first dip. Hard to imagine what might follow another one. And I can&#8217;t believe they killed that measley $250 bill for Soc Sec recipients who did not get a COLA increase this year!</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  They have figured how to confound us by hypnotizing us with lies like the chicken with the a chalk line in the road</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Yes Cher, AFTER 2012.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  This will sound terrible, but that second dip may be the kick we need to demand more stim. I hope it comes after 2012 tho!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Look, the Repubs have come out against the very plans they supported for HCR just months ago and even call them unconstitutional now. They are lying sacks of shit so they need to be ignored and Dems need to get spinal transplants and just say, &#8220;Fuck &#8216;em!&#8221;</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Patsy, you&#8217;re right. We try to be logical and reasonable and then we get Palinglish thrown back at us and the only response is: &#8220;HUH??&#8221;</li>
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<p>Khirad :  I think the focus should be on getting rid of our own a-holes too. I saw the Arkansan challenger. Don&#8217;t know much about him, but he was photogenic and well-spoken. He could win general, possibly.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  It would help if they were firm in their beliefs</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Patsy &#8212; Yes! Forget the R! Do what ever you think is right!</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Seriously, AdLib? I missed that. Moore&#8217;s very sharp; which make that prediction even scarier.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  A &#8220;double-dip&#8221; I fear would be catastrophic &#8211; on the human level AND political.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Moore also said that he expects more economic crashes, that the commercial real estate crash hasn&#8217;t been accounted for yet.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Cher I feel that the dems go out with what they think should be a airtight argument and the repub always pull a lie out of their A&#8211; and confuse them &#8211; &#8212; How do you anticipate the next lie &#8212; Maybe by sticking to your principals ??</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  (Still ranting) seriously, why do the Progs spend so much energy on the MINORITY Party? We do have to pay attention to elections, but we have allowed them to define our debates from Nov. to today. We spend so much air time analyzing those fucks, but what about our own assholes? It upsets me.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Right, AdLib. The right views us the same way they view their donors. &#8220;What a bunch of suckers!&#8221;</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Yeah, I saw Moore&#8217;s comments. Like, at least the GOP has cojones when in power.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Someone posted some comments by Michael Moore today on the Planet to the effect that the left really needs to stop being invertebrate. Moore is pissed.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Yeah, Cher, I think we should be more scared of them regaining power than scared of what will happen if we grow a spine. That&#8217;s the difference for me.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; So with you on the wimpy, &#8220;What will the Repubs say about us?&#8221; bullshit that Dems use to make decisions. Let me make this easy for Dem politicians, &#8220;THE REPUBLICANS WILL KICK YOU IN THE BALLS WHATEVER YOU DO!&#8221;</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  AdLib has pretty much convinced me. At some point Rahm needs to go overboard.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Khirad&#8211; one of my beefs is that we on the Left spend far too much time thinking about waht the Right will do. Fuck em hard! I mean who really cares? They should be irrelevant! Yet that&#8217;s all we talk about&#8211; Plain, Beck and the other anuses. We have out own problems and we allow ourselves to constantly talk about the R&#8217;s! I don&#8217;t mean &#8220;US&#8221; i mean the left.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  &#8220;Impotent rage&#8221;. I love it.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Reshuffling the cabinet is coming, but not sooner than Nov. I&#8217;m curious who else could go. Will he cave in to Arianna, too?</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  I think a HCR victory would go a long way toward taking the wind out of the RW sails. They might get angry, but it would be a sort of impotent rage. (Maybe that&#8217;s nothing new!)</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Khirad &#8211; I think the baggers would lose all their funding at that point since its coming from the GOP faithful, then they&#8217;d fall apart.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Adlib&#8211; very good pt, didn&#8217;;t think of that.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  The more the RW bellyaches, the more they revive anger and attacking the parliamentarian, shows me we may be closer than we think. The more they shout, the closer we are, I hope. What a &#8220;victory&#8221; would do? Would it make them angrier or deflate them?</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  This country has a bad case of Short term Memory loss</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Yeah, Cheney&#8217;s too rotten to die.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; I think it&#8217;s now a strength v. weakness thing with Rahm going. If Obama even was to consider firing him in the near term, he would look weak and like he is folding to Sarah Palin and the GOP. I&#8217;ve heard that it couldn&#8217;t happen sooner than after the election this Nov, even if he wanted to which I agree, he doesn&#8217;t seem to want to do.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Did Cheney ever get out of the hospital? I&#8217;ve been out of the news loop for a few days.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Good point, Khirad!</li>
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<p>Khirad :  How fast would the &#8220;non-partisan&#8221; teabaggers disappear if Obama lost? I&#8217;m sorry for even raising the possibility &#8211; just a hypothetical to think about.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  I am totally fine with Obama not being seen as a shoe in for a 2nd term. Worrying about a return to Bush&#8217;s America under Romney will be a real motivator, no matter how upset folks are with Obama.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Cheney has been wrong about many things before !</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Adlib, yes Rahm but his boss still likes him, so why blame Rahm ( that asshole?0 Why not accept that Obama is keeping him. We&#8217;ll see after the HCR vote. Rahm might not deliver and be chopped liver.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  The Rs are so hate-able. Bring the country to ruin and then be totally unrepentant about it. Follow that up by fanning flames of hostility. Altogether bad people.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  If people give into the RW crap -Cheney saying that he will be a one term pres- they just hand it over the the RW  Yuck !</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Exactly Cher. The purists have yet to convince me against voting and working to elect the better alternative.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  President Romney? Reversal of HCR if it gets passed? De-regulation of the economy and tax cuts for the rich? I can&#8217;t imagine that people have already forgotten what happened during the Bush years.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  I am still highly motivated by my hatred of the R to knock on doors to defeat the Pugs.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Patsy, that&#8217;s very encouraging news!</li>
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<p>Khirad :  I hope that Lincoln is taken down, that would be a victory for a re-enthused Left.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Cher, my son would definitely vote for Obama again. He just doubts that he would be able to win.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  aDLIB, MAYBE. But there is so much love lost now, and so much bitterness that i see and hear towards O, I don;t think this HCR will go far enough to appease the Left.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  There&#8217;s no question that I&#8217;ll vote, and who I&#8217;ll vote for, but will I be as enthused to make calls and knock on doors? I don&#8217;t know&#8230;</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  I have more faith in Obama and his safety because every year there is a new group of 18 year olds that can vote and they are poling for Obama 66 %</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Cher&#8211;yes, the RW organizes and funds the demos, then objects when Pelosi calls them astroturf!</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  My son is more patient with Obama&#8211; but he too may sit out 2012.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; Obama has lost the major enthusiasm from the left (thanks to Rahm IMO) but if he can get HCR passed and financial regulations, if it&#8217;s him against Romney in 2012, the left will be re-energized I think.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Kes, I agree, but the R is well funded by the likes of freedom Works. We have no funding. The RW pays for busses and actually, there really weren&#8217;t more than maybe 15k-20k at the protests.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Grijalva put it perfectly. How can we not pass some form of HCR and expect to pass stuff in the future? Well, he put it much more eloquently, but as a pure practical matter, we need to get something to build other legislation from. Otherwise, I fear early lame-duckitude.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  My 24 year old son was a very early and ardent supporter of Obama, but he&#8217;s resigned to his being a one-termer now, he tells me.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Khirad &#8211; You have an excellent point. Imagine if a group of black men with guns cruised into Fox News offices. Would Glenn Beck be slapping their backs or cowering under his desk. See, safety is white people having guns.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  I guess&#8211;regarding demonstrations&#8211; I&#8217;m just thinking how hard it would be for so many people I know to go to D.C. for example&#8211;time and money-wise.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Adlib, it is too little too late for the base. I hate to say that but believe it. Obama has lost the left.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; I can&#8217;t blame any Dems for feeling demoralized. It will help if HCR is passed and if that is built on to pass bank reforms and other Dem issues.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Kes- I don&#8217;t think so. There are PLENTY out of wk. Real unemployment is over 20%</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Wow. Chilling to see the prediction about the 2d term, but perhaps very realistic, too?</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Can anyone imagine if liberals started packing heat? Like, how unpatriotic that would be seen as from FOX? Like the Black Panthers and Weathermen? But, when RW&#8217;s do it, its practicing their Constitutional Freedoms and guarding against &#8220;Tyranny&#8221;&#8230;</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Yes adlib&#8211; He is a walking bulls eye! I cannot think about it, but if pressed, I&#8217;d be surprised he survives a 2nd term.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Cher, I&#8217;ve wondered if part of the reason the left doesn&#8217;t organize protests is that we are (many of us) still employed. Baggers are an older demographic?</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  I was glad to see the Education protest in CA this week at the UC&#8217;s</li>
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<p>AdLib :  If there were zombies, the GOP would stampede to patronize them and get their votes. They&#8217;d have to add cannibalism to their platform&#8230;if it&#8217;s not already part of it.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  But I am actually less upset by the expected violence than I am by the LACK of violence form the Left. I don&#8217;t really mean that but I want some real protests, yet believe we are too demoralized to fight!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  My fear, and I don&#8217;t scare easily, is that the threats against Obama are probably multiplying and more possible now.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  And of course, Cher, everyone is armed these days. I even hear people on the left saying that they&#8217;re going to start packing heat.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Lion and Tigers and Zombies oh my !</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  I do expect many more hate crimes if not suicide attacks. I expect more mass shootings.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Kes, I know, multitasking is a bit hard to do, but I can still manage!</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Going Zombie</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Patsy &#8211; zombies, Repubs, Baggers, how do you tell them apart?</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Palins next book</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Okay, I was wondering to do it now or later. Now is good &#8211; it pertains to our topic. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIA1o2YGSPQ" target="_blank">«link»</a></li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Khirad, how do you do research and type here at the same time? I can barely focus on the five subjects here!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Khirad &#8211; You can post the link here, it will appear as &#8220;link&#8221; but it will be saved here for people to go back to after this edition is over.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  I thought we were talking Zombies</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Kes, he tells me it&#8217;s a global problem; that other countries aren&#8217;t exactly begging for Americans to take their jobs, and as for Canada, he believes they are only doing well becasue they have a big neighbor to the south. he won&#8217;t leave.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  A 9000 pound ham, stomping in from Alaska. I can see it now, Patsy.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Found the Rachel clip. Phew. It&#8217;s about the religious right &amp; militias and how unpatriotic they are.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Laugh of Die !</li>
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<p>AdLib :  So, to get back to whatever the topic is, do you expect more of these suicide attacks to come? WIll they rise in frequency? Could the more that happen encourage more to follow?</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Fifty Foot Zombie Bagger Women doing STAND UP ?-?- RUN !!!</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Oooh that&#8217;s a good one Ad. We need to come up with a bunch f those! Maybe for the video? Zoms are hot now.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  As it should, kes, as it should. I am a little proud that Raúl Grijalva was on MSNBC today, though (co-chair of Progressive Caucus from South/West Tucson).</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Cher, I&#8217;m presenting the glories of Canada to my kids.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Zombie&#8217;s have better make up?</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Zombies flush the toilst?</li>
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<p>AdLib :  One actually wants brains.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Well, I do despair for the US. I tried to convince my kid to move somewhere else last night, ot no avail.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  What&#8217;s the difference between a zombie and a Republican.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Arizona scares the living hell out of me.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Khirad &#8211; Saw that silliness with McCain trying to use racism with being Photoshopped into an Avatar character. What a desperate, lying, nasty human being&#8230;each of them are.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  This has the makings of a great 1950&#8217;s sci fi movie poster. Time to call WTS.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Kes except the Fifty Foot Zombie Bagger  MIGHT JUST BE HER  !!! ARRRRRghggh</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  AdLib, it took me a full 30 seconds to get that. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, but I&#8217;ve managed to do it.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  LOL AdLib, punmeisters beware!</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Adlib&#8211; OUCH!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Thanks Cher! I was afraid I&#8217;d have to moderate myself for going OT!</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Patsy&#8211;one time when we could use Palin with helicopter and rifle!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  That protest was Bunning the candle at both ends.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Adlib&#8211; Zombies= the rage virus= RW hate machine+ militias. See? It is on the topic!</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Attack of the Fifty Foot Zombie Bagger !!!</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Bunning sure didn&#8217;t help anybody with his histrionics this past week.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; Yes, the GOP are like kids playing with matches that have set a forrest fire that can burn down their homes too. They have so infuriated people that they just blindly hate now. ALL politicians and parties!</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Anyone see Zombieland? Adlib, you are a zombie-baiter!</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  This all goes back to the lack of opportunity for the middle class How can we get that message across?</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  I hope you&#8217;re right, AdLib. I hope unemployed Dems w/out health care don&#8217;t get so mad they&#8217;ll vote for any zombie bagger out there.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Why not? They&#8217;re brain dead.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Hey, maybe the Zombie can be the mascot for the Baggers!</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Uh Oh, AdlIb. You mentioned zombies. I have a lot to say about that! I will try to keep on topic now.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Kes &#8211; Any district crazy enough to elect a Bagger would elect a Repub and never a Dem. That&#8217;s fine because it takes a seat away from the GOP.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Will do, Kes.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Khirad, would appreciate it if you can find the F. Schaeffer vid. I love that guy.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Anyone see the Hayworth ad against McCain with the Na&#8217;vi reference, and then McCain&#8217;s people shot back that they were insulting Amerindians? &#8230;not that Amerindians have any impact on the Arizonan GOP primary (!) &#8211; but it was not-so-subtly calling Hayworth people racists.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  &#8220;The same thing happened to the GOP with the Religious Right.&#8221; If the SPLC can be believed, it&#8217;s gone way beyond that. The militias HATE ALL govt. Repubs too. The &#8220;Patriots&#8221; are actually anti-American as we know it.They have gotten so mad that they do not trust any Party.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  AdLib I have some childrens book with that same story</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Patsy, like having a baby Zombie that grows to adulthood in months.</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  But&#8211;OMG&#8211;AdLib. ..what if they actually get elected!  <img src="../wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":-(" /></li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Patsy&#8211;the new pet being a boa constrictor!</li>
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<p>AdLib :  What&#8217;s hilarious is that the Baggers are putting up rivals to the GOP and splitting the vote on the right. We can only hope that they run them in Nov too!</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Frank was brilliant. I&#8217;ll try to find the video when we end here.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  was Frank S on this week ?</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Missed F. Schaeffer unfortunately. And you are so right, AdLib!</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  I dont know for sure if their fear campaign is having an effect, because we only hear about the wingers on the R. Is the great middle affected or even turned off by the RW? I hope so! Sometimes I am surprised by the SANITY of the voters.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  AdLib like that new pet so cutte at first but when it gets big and the luster has worn off&#8230;</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Anyone see Frank Schaeffer on Rachel?</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  I think the Repubs think these disaffected people are gonna vote Repub, but they might discover that some genuine Brown Shirt loonies get elected as &#8220;conservatives &#8221; or &#8220;independents. &#8220;</li>
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<p>AdLib :  The same thing happened to the GOP with the Religious Right. The GOP figured they&#8217;d just patronize those rubes to get their votes then eventually had their party taken over by them. Now, history is repeating itself with the teabaggers.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  Kes Pandora&#8217;s Box is right . . .</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Kes, they&#8217;re playing with fire, that much is clear.</li>
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<p>AdLib :  Cher &#8211; What I mean is that they claim their actions in whipping up anger is not responsible for doctors being assassinated for performing abortions or people making death threats against Obama&#8230;yet they continue to whip up people. What I mean is that they are so transparently dishonest, if it doesn&#8217;t work, why keep doing it?</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  They embrace &#8216;em, Khirad, at the same time that they have contempt for &#8216;em. Have they opened Pandora&#8217;s Box?</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  As far as the RW spin machine, if a few lone wolves cause havoc&#8211; well, necessary losses. As long as they regain power.</li>
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<p>Khirad :  I don&#8217;t know kes, they&#8217;ve embraced the tiger, with that whole fundraising memo.</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  You can watch American I&#8217;m Dull no thanks</li>
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<p>kesmarn :  Sometimes I get the feeling that the RW is beginning to realize they are &#8220;riding the tiger&#8221; with these tea baggers. The tail is starting to wag the dog. They&#8217;re losing control of their &#8220;minions.&#8221;</li>
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<p>PatsyT :  The lack of the Fairness Doctrine isn&#8217;t helping</li>
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<p>AdLib :  kes &#8211; This is a pattern we&#8217;ve seen repeatedly, anything that leads people to question what they think is the status quo, is swept under the rug. Or the Snuggy, so we can all just go back to watching American Idol in peace.</li>
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<p>Chernynkaya :  Adlib&#8211; do you mean why is the RW promoting fear?</li>
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<p>Khirad :  Yes, whatever happened to these stories in the MSM?</li>
<li id="comment-new6787">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/48fdb7a911a67e4068d375b7aaee6883?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Chernynkaya :  Hard to say. I think it&#8217;s likely&#8211; black prez, economy, Fox whipping them up and the RNC promoting fear. So yeah, there are more hate groups&#8211; 244% more and something&#8217;s bound to happen.</li>
<li id="comment-new6786">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Khirad, do you notice that the MSM in general seem to have &#8220;disappeared&#8221; the whole Austin suicide pilot story?</li>
<li id="comment-new6785">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Mitzi cool !</li>
<li id="comment-new6784">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  At the same time they&#8217;re promoting hatred, the RW are indeed silent and dismissive of its effect. If it had no effect, why are they doing it?</li>
<li id="comment-new6783">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Kh you have a great point !</li>
<li id="comment-new6782">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  People like Beck and Limbaugh definitely have a hand in cranking these people up, I think.</li>
<li id="comment-new6781">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/48fdb7a911a67e4068d375b7aaee6883?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Chernynkaya :  Sorry Patsy&#8211; got a call&#8211; she looked like Mitzi gaynor.</li>
<li id="comment-new6780">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Sorry, sent the first version before it was finished, ignore the first version.</li>
<li id="comment-new6779">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Why are right-wingers so silent? Isn&#8217;t that what we demand of Muslims?</li>
<li id="comment-new6778">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  TO BEGIN, TWO SUICIDE ATTACKS IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS BY AMERICANS AND ALLEGEDLY AGAINST AMERICA. THE LATEST ATTACK WAS BY SOMEONE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS BUT HE WAS STILL MOTIVATED TO ACT. WHETHER ATTACKERS ARE MENTALLY ILL OR NOT, IS THE HATRED BEING PROMOTED BY THE RW CREATING THIS? IS IT GOING TO BE AN ONGOING TRICKLE? WILL IT BECOME A FLOOD?</li>
<li id="comment-new6777">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Why do I crave filet mignon and bacon every Friday?</li>
<li id="comment-new6776">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Kes lay off the fish</li>
<li id="comment-new6775">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  TO BEGIN, TWO SUICIDE ATTACKS IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS BY AMERICANS AND ALLEGEDLY AGAINST AMERICA. THE LATEST ATTACK WAS BY SOMEONE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS BUT HE WAS STILL MOTIVATED TO ACT. WHETHER ATTACKERS ARE MENTALLY ILL OR NOT, IS THE HATRED BEING PROMOTED BY THE RW CREATING THIS A TRICKLE THAT</li>
<li id="comment-new6774">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  Hey, Patsy! I&#8217;m dazed and confused as usual on Friday night. Too much fish. Too much mercury.</li>
<li id="comment-new6773">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Hi Kes !</li>
<li id="comment-new6772">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a7b9308db109200ebebc66dcdcc6ed7e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>kesmarn :  I&#8217;ve been wandering around like a poster child for Alzheimer&#8217;s trying to find everyone. Expect no brilliance from me tonight! Hi, everyone!</li>
<li id="comment-new6771">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Cher I will have to look later who did you say your mom looked like?</li>
<li id="comment-new6770">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Ever try to multitask when chatting here? Even now it&#8217;s not so easy&#8230; <img src="../wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" /></li>
<li id="comment-new6769">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  When the cats away the mice will play &#8230;</li>
<li id="comment-new6768">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Odd&#8230;I will fix it now! Be right back!</li>
<li id="comment-new6767">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  AdLib the links did not work so  got here by going to live events</li>
<li id="comment-new6766">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/48fdb7a911a67e4068d375b7aaee6883?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Chernynkaya :  Yep I HATE her. <img src="../wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" /></li>
<li id="comment-new6765">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Does hate in America include Liz Cheney of Al-Chaida and her Jihad against our legal system?</li>
<li id="comment-new6764">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/48fdb7a911a67e4068d375b7aaee6883?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Chernynkaya :  Hey, Patsy!</li>
<li id="comment-new6763">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2740d9fe171a23f9601fd53482873d88?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>PatsyT :  Hi Guys</li>
<li id="comment-new6762">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/48fdb7a911a67e4068d375b7aaee6883?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Chernynkaya :  Where is everyone? They&#8217;re tardy.</li>
<li id="comment-new6761">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Oh, good, some light fare. <img src="../wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" /></li>
<li id="comment-new6760">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/48fdb7a911a67e4068d375b7aaee6883?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Chernynkaya :  Stop reading that smut!</li>
<li id="comment-new6759">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  I read something about it somewhere.</li>
<li id="comment-new6758">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Welcome Cher!</li>
<li id="comment-new6757">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/48fdb7a911a67e4068d375b7aaee6883?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Chernynkaya :  Nooooo Not Hate in America!!</li>
<li id="comment-new6756">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/48fdb7a911a67e4068d375b7aaee6883?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Chernynkaya :  Hi all. Had a drink at dinner, so I probably can&#8217;t type <img src="../wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" /></li>
<li id="comment-new6755">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  I thought we&#8217;d lead off with hatred in America and individuals committing suicide attacks. Then, favorite dessert recipes. <img src="../wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" /></li>
<li id="comment-new6754">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Alright, what&#8217;s on tap tonight? (discussion wise&#8230;)</li>
<li id="comment-new6753">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Hey Khirad! How are you doing tonight?</li>
<li id="comment-new6752">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/9d21930575d5d1351ab0ee8fa2655383?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>Khirad :  Hi!</li>
<li id="comment-new6751">
<div><img src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/04af1270554538ac04b6ff22362eb37e?s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D30&amp;r=R" alt="" width="30" height="30" /></div>
<p>AdLib :  Welcome to Vox Populi! Please say hi when you arrive!</li>
</ul>
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		<item>
		<title>How far will we have to go to fix everything?</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/planetpov/mfkm/~3/oeo2t-mDcaI/</link>
		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/08/how-far-will-we-have-to-go-to-fix-everything/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>FrankenPC</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Environment]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://planetpov.com/?p=11097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the disturbingly near future, Venice is submerged, Canal Street in New York City has become a real canal again, and it’s 87 degrees in December in Boston. Catastrophic global warming has moved from theory to fact.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/environment.jpg"><img src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/environment-300x214.jpg" alt="" title="environment" width="300" height="214" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-11099" /></a>I&#8217;ve been thinking about how far we as the Human race will need to go to combat greed, corruption, ignorance, and good old fashioned violence.   Will we turn on the pain machine for yet another bloody global war to eradicate all governments with &#8220;the crazies&#8221;?  Will we continue to push the mass proliferation of information with the hopes it will eventually help us overcome our lesser base instincts?  If global climate change does what scientists fear in our lifetimes&#8230;will it be enough to drive us in a positive direction?</p>
<p>What will it take?</p>
<p>In this short video movie, we see one possible solution: Mr Green.</p>
<p><a title="Mr. Green Video" href="http://www.futurestates.tv/episodes/mister-green" target="_blank">http://www.futurestates.tv/episodes/mister-green</a></p>
<div>
<blockquote><p>In the disturbingly near future, Venice is submerged, Canal Street in New York City has become a real canal again, and it’s 87 degrees in December in Boston. Catastrophic global warming has moved from theory to fact. At the Biosphere Climate Change Expo, undersecretary for the Department of Global Warming Mason Park (Tim Kang) informs the crowd of scientists and activists that the tipping point has passed, and that they are all at fault.</p>
<p>He tells them that the scientists of the world failed to create the necessary pressure, which would have allowed for the political changes needed to confront global warming. Now the Department of Global Warming has been defunded, drying up research money for climate initiatives.</p>
<p>That night at the hotel bar, Park runs into Dr. Gloria Holtzer (Betty Gilpin), a former graduate school classmate, and one of the scientists who will be losing her grant money. Park blames himself for failing to prevent the climate catastrophe in time, but finds comfort in Holtzer’s arms. However, she has an ulterior motive. Park awakens in the morning and soon realizes that everything has changed.</p>
<p>Holtzer&#8217;s ecotech company has developed an entirely new way to confront the challenge of catastrophic global warming — by changing the very nature of the human race itself. And Park has become a very powerful test subject.</p>
<p>Mister Green is a parable about change — both personal and political.</p></blockquote>
</div>
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		<item>
		<title>Blogging and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance</title>
		<link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/planetpov/mfkm/~3/VMszRimeElQ/</link>
		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/08/blogging-and-the-art-of-motorcycle-maintenance/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>AdLib</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Featured]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Observations]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[PlanetPOV]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Relationships]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Society]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://planetpov.com/?p=11056</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
As the title alludes to, I believe that the most constructive path in blogging is Zen-like, IMO, it is best and most considerate to accept the opinions and blogging of colleagues as being what they are and never take them personally. And I like to keep my motorcycle running too.
This is not referring to actual [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/blogging_1011.jpg"><img src="http://planetpov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/blogging_1011-300x200.jpg" alt="" title="blogging_101" width="300" height="200" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-570" /></a></p>
<p>As the title alludes to, I believe that the most constructive path in blogging is Zen-like, IMO, it is best and most considerate to accept the opinions and blogging of colleagues as being what they are and never take them personally. And I like to keep my motorcycle running too.</p>
<p>This is not referring to actual personal attacks or troll behavior of course, I&#8217;m talking about the healthy experience of blogging which includes disagreements with those who may agree in most instances. </p>
<p>Before I continue, let me make clear that this is not aimed at anyone in particular, there have been situations that have arisen along the journey of The Planet with this one thing in common, I&#8217;m addressing this in general. So, no one is going to take personally a post about not taking things personally, right? Good.</p>
<p>I have learned a bit about bloggers and people in my brief time as Admin at The Planet. It is natural on every blog for those who become frequent bloggers to become more familiar and friendly with each other, I have never seen an exception to this. It does bring with it a more personal connection between such members and to the site, which on a social blog is fine but on a political blog, can sometimes be a double-edged sword. I see belonging to a blog very much like a relationship, the more we invest ourselves in a relationship, the more we open up, the more we can share and receive&#8230;and the more vulnerable we can become.</p>
<p>This can create a conundrum, true freedom of expression where conflicting views are freely shared and vulnerability can&#8217;t constructively coexist. So it can become a balancing act, between coming together with others to share personal thoughts and opinions&#8230;and not feeling vulnerable, so that responses that oppose one&#8217;s opinions are not taken personally. </p>
<p>For me, it&#8217;s all about intent. As long as someone is genuinely expressing their opinion, whether or not it undermines or argues against one&#8217;s opinions, accepting that without taking it personally is what freedom of expression is truly about.</p>
<p>On HuffPo, the personalizing has led to a too-often ugly and offensive atmosphere. We&#8217;ve all seen the troll-Progressive mud fights, petty and exclusive cliques, inter-Dem battles, all that hostility and discord over there that is stoked by taking others&#8217; opinions as personal affronts. </p>
<p>It suffocates true exploration of ideas and perspectives at a political blog and smothers diversity of opinion if there is a feeling that to express oneself openly and honestly is to step into a minefield. This is why we have the rules here that we do enforce avidly, all members deserve respect and are expected to show it to others. However, we can&#8217;t be everywhere at all times and we do depend on the kindness of members to support and reinforce this sensibility whenever possible.</p>
<p>The truth is, at one time or another, each member may have an opinion that some, most or all others at The Planet who respond, disagree with. It is not a great feeling to be in that position, I&#8217;ve been there, I&#8217;d prefer having most people support my POV every time but as long as they&#8217;re honestly expressing themselves, I respect their POV as I want mine respected. So even if people disagree with my POV, there is a satisfaction for me that I am on a site that truly believes in and protects freedom of expression.</p>
<p>The fallout from taking others&#8217; opinions personally is a rapid loss of perspective, it is easy to exhibit the same actions one is objecting to in the midst of that. This sometimes leads to generalizing or categorizing people or even the blog, to make them easier to attack in what one may feel is defending oneself or one&#8217;s opinion. So, it is not unusual for the ironic protest to be voiced in the middle of such a situation that the members or site don&#8217;t allow for a difference of opinions&#8230;in the midst of a conflict based on a difference of opinions.</p>
<p>The reality is of course that in that particular instance, it is a situation where one member is in the minority on an opinion&#8230;as I have been and most others have been at one time or another. And when I&#8217;m in that situation, I rarely accuse myself of being intolerant towards me, I just accept that most people just don&#8217;t realize how enormously wrong they are. <img src='http://planetpov.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In truth, I have found myself standing firm in some cases and being convinced to take a different position in others. If one views having opposing opinions as a process in trying to validate the truth in a situation, then the process is very constructive and one can come away from it more convinced of their original opinion or more confident of their new opinion. So, either way, if the quest is not in being &#8220;right&#8221; or personally validated but in trying to affirm &#8220;truth&#8221;, then one can only benefit from disagreements.</p>
<p>It is not an easy thing for strong minded people to always get along. Personalizing and becoming emotionally reactive to disagreement is something that is continuing to tear our party, our democracy, our government and our nation apart. To reject that requires self-sacrifice, being committed first to working towards a better level of cooperation and discourse for the many in the long run even when we feel like swinging back at someone in the short term.</p>
<p>UPDATE:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve assumed that this is well known but just to be clear, no personal criticisms or attacks are permitted under the Terms of Use. All members are required to respect each others&#8217; right to their opinion and personalizing disagreements is not permitted.</p>
<p>In the article above, I am instead addressing tolerance for others&#8217; voicing opposing opinions on issues, not taking legit criticisms of one&#8217;s opinion personally. </p>
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		<title>Get Your Mojo Here</title>
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		<comments>http://planetpov.com/2010/03/08/get-your-mojo-here/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chernynkaya</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[
I read two great articles I want to share. They are elaborations of a piece I posted  a couple of weeks ago, about the confounding  and stunning passivity of Americans in the face of issues that should have taken us all to the streets. I keep coming back to this because I am frustrated [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: center;"><img class="aligncenter" src="http://www.usageorge.com/Wallpapers/Computer/wallpaper/Broken-Screen.jpg" alt="" width="323" height="242" /></p>
<p>I read two great articles I want to share. They are elaborations of a <a href="http://planetpov.com/2010/02/22/why-so-aggressively-passive/ ">piece I posted </a> a couple of weeks ago, about the confounding  and stunning passivity of Americans in the face of issues that should have taken us all to the streets. I keep coming back to this because I am frustrated by the inaction I see on the Left to do more than bemoan the slowness of change. I am searching for reasons why our despair does not translate into more vigorous activism.</p>
<p>The first is pretty short, <a href="http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/03/american_mojo.html ">“Has America Lost Its Mojo” </a>in <em>The American Prospect</em>, by Nina Hachigian. She lists ten things – and I have edited her thesis&#8211;that we should keep in perspective about the US:</p>
<blockquote>
<h4>1. America’s fate is in its own control</h4>
<p>This is cold comfort given the dysfunction in Washington, but it is nonetheless important to remember that the decisions Americans make at home determine our fate far more than anything China or any other pivotal power does—including keeping its currency undervalued, as destructive as that is.</p>
<h4>2. We are still number one</h4>
<p>We shouldn’t forget that America is still far ahead of all other emerging and established powers by nearly every important measure. And we have demographics on our side.</p>
<h4>3. Our relative decline is inevitable</h4>
<p>Relative to other pivotal powers such as China and India, we <em>are</em> declining—the huge gap between the United States and the others is shrinking. That is a function of two factors completely out of American control: the size of their populations being many times larger than ours, and the fact that they are at earlier stages of their economic growth, still climbing out of poverty and moving people off subsistence farming.</p>
<h4>4. Primacy isn’t what it used to be</h4>
<p>It is not as important as it used to be for a power to remain on top by a huge margin. Countries used to acquire power by conquering each other, and in that world, primacy is a life or death matter. The contest today is to see who can grow and lure more innovative talent, and become energy independent first. Land grabs are a waste of time and money.</p>
<h4>5. Americans have it really good and will for generations</h4>
<p>Here’s another key point to remember: China and India’s growth will not change living standards for the vast majority of Americans if we make the right choices at home. Even if China’s economy does grow to be larger than ours one day, there is no reason to think Americans will be worse off. We could even be better off. Look at the British—they enjoy very comfortable lives and take a lot more vacations since they gave up their empire.</p>
<h4>6. Americans are safe</h4>
<p>Americans enjoy an unimaginably high degree of safety from outside threats compared to most other peoples. We are protected by oceans, a strong military deterrent, and a stable society based on the rule of law. The growing strength of other powers will not change that fact.</p>
<h4>7. The trajectories of future powers is unknowable</h4>
<p>It seems that China, Brazil, and India are rising inexorably, and maybe they are. But maybe they aren’t. The Soviet Union looked like it would be around forever in 1988, and in 1990, Japan was seen as the undefeatable hegemon. We just don’t know, and can’t control, the futures of other big powers—which is yet another reason to focus on getting our own act together.</p>
<h4>8. American leadership is vital, and everyone knows it</h4>
<p>Even after eight years of stomach-churning foreign policy under the Bush administration, most countries acknowledge that American leadership is vital to solving major global problems and keeping order.</p>
<h4>9. Previous bouts of self-doubt have proven unjustified</h4>
<p>As <em>Atlantic</em> correspondent James Fallows <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/01/how-america-can-rise-again/7839/***">recently explained</a>, Americans are prone to cyclical periods of self-doubt. Our worries have been part of American culture since the days of our founders.</p>
<h4>10. We have still have fundamental strengths</h4>
<p>America doesn’t have nationwide broadband, consistent cell coverage, high-speed rail, or large-scale solar, <a href="http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/09/green_recovery.html">though we need them</a>. But it does have a high tolerance for failure, which encourages zany and sometimes very profitable ideas.</p></blockquote>
<p>I can provide counter-arguments to many of her points, but I’m wondering if you agree with her. And even if you do, does it help?</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/10_mar_apr/Swanson.html "><strong>second article</strong></a> is somewhat more psychological and much more practical. It is “No, We’re Not a Broken people” written by Davis Swanson in <em>The Humanist</em>.</p>
<p>Some excerpts (and the emphasis is mine):</p>
<blockquote><p>Most of the defeatist questions I get asked are more statements than questions, mostly pointing out ways in which our nation is corrupted, but stated as much out of frustration and despair as out of any hope of having a miraculous solution articulated: <em><strong>Aren’t politicians all bought and paid for? Haven’t we tried being activists for years with no success? Can’t the corporate media just destroy us if it wants to? Won’t the secret permanent bureaucracy just kill any politicians who stray from the plan? Isn’t anything good doomed to fail under our two-party system?</strong></em><strong> And so forth.</strong></p>
<p>Some of these questions, statements, and cries of anguish refer to all that’s wrong and needs to be fixed, at least in the view of the questioner. I tend to agree with much of the analysis I hear, and want to add to it. I want to get people to see the danger of leaving all power in the hands of presidents, for example, even though returning it to Congress wouldn’t do a bit of good until we fix Congress. <strong>But I have no sympathy for what I consider the intellectual and moral offense of coughing discouragement on people.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>Swanson is responding to <a href="http://www.alternet.org/news/144529/are_americans_a_broken_people_why_we%27ve_stopped_fighting_back_against_the_forces_of_oppression?page=entire">another article</a> about our malaise by a psychologist Bruce Levine on the AlterNet. Levine finds causes of our disempowerment in financial stress, social isolation, institutions of higher education that train submissiveness, the treating of rebelliousness with pharmaceuticals, the damaging effects of television, and the replacement of citizenship with consumerism. He finds solutions in “encouragement, small victories, and models of courageous behaviors.” We don’t need to be told what’s wrong, claims Levine. <strong>We need the morale boost of seeing people succeed in doing what’s right.</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>But Levine’s discussion needs to be expanded because it offers no explanation for why activists (at least on the left, and I think across the political spectrum) were hit with despair so severely in 2009. Nor does it specifically address why we’re lacking in encouragement, why we’re missing small victories or courageous behavior. I believe the answer has more to do with our communications system than anything else, so the solution isn’t simply for you or I as isolated individuals to act courageously.</p>
<p><strong>But why 2009 in particular? Why such a dramatic increase in defeatism from 2008?</strong></p>
<p>Another evolving trend is the equation of civic involvement with participation in presidential elections. The president is a character in a television drama, and our job is to vote the lesser of the two presidential contenders off the fictional island. Our job is then complete, and the good president will fix everything for us. So many seem to believe.</p>
<p><strong>No Encouragement to Be Found?</strong><br />
Above all, humans are imitators. It’s how we learn as children and how we learn as adults. We do not, as Levine points out, need to be told to get active. Rather, we need to be shown others being active, enjoying it, succeeding at it, and being rewarded for it. When was the last time you saw that on television?</p>
<p>If we see public activism fail twenty times and are then told to get out there and be active, the actions speak louder than the words. But if we see courageous, inspiring, successful activism—and enough of it—we don’t need as much explicit encouragement to join in.</p>
<p>Our independent media follows corporate media too closely, spinning its stories in a different way, while missing the stories that no one else has covered. When we hear of successes, they’re often disguised as something else. When a policy decision follows public pressure, the pressure is left out of the story. Politicians give other reasons for their actions, and stenographic reporters report them. And, of course, when a policy decision hasn’t been made yet, the media instructs everyone not to imagine they can have any effective input.</p>
<p><strong>WHAT WE CAN DO:</strong></p>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p><strong>We have to be the media</strong>. We have to report on our successes (I will post any good stories you send me at <a href="http://afterdowningstreet.org/">afterdowningstreet.org</a>). We have to use the media. We have to actively search out the sorts of stories we want to learn about. We have to reform the media, bust the monopolies, provide equal access, and support community, public, and independent outlets. We have to build organizations that create good media and press for media reforms. We have to stop supporting bad media in any way. Don’t buy it. Don’t buy ads in it. Don’t participate in it. Put everything into enlarging good outlets that report the news.</p>
<p><strong>Uncausing the Causes of Gloom</strong><br />
Some of the causes of despair that Levine points out may be more easily addressed than some of the causes of congressional misrepresentation (money, media, parties, election rigging, and so on). The primary causes of financial stress are not things an individual can simply wish away. Millions of Americans are under severe financial stress, the only solution for which is getting more money into their hands. The blame for this situation lies entirely with the predatory plutocrats pigging out on the fruits of other people’s labor.</p>
<p>And yet there are things we may be able to do to become more citizenlike and less consumerized, and to alleviate some of our financial stress. We can cease buying unnecessary crap. We can grow and make more things for ourselves. We can trade and barter and participate in local economies. We can save money in local institutions, avoid borrowing, and avoid the mega-banks.</p>
<p>We can also address social isolation whether or not we’re under financial stress. An ideal approach might be to start small political clubs or book clubs—groups of a handful of people who can be friends as well as allies. We can join non-profit advocacy groups that will keep us informed of their efforts, progress, and victories large and small. Announcing your despair is almost the equivalent of announcing that you don’t belong to such a group.</p>
<p><strong>Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.</strong></p>
<p><strong><br />
</strong></p></blockquote>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p>I think that what we do at PlanetPOV—and especially GROW—can help not only democracy, but ourselves. We can build on small successes and attain bigger ones. There is so much about which we can despair; it takes energy and discipline to counteract that. (Frankly, energy and discipline are the themes of my life!) I think we must work harder at that. I least I should.</p>
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