| Religion News Blog

No doubt there are those who welcome "evidence" that undermines the foundation of Christianity. Many people, though, are simply beguiled by the "obsolescence factor" in our technologically driven society--the "newer" must be "truer" and "better." This outlook, when applied to a subject like the historical Jesus, attracts all sorts of unbridled speculation, and worse.

How momentous is the latest Jesus-as-you-never-knew-him story? Not very. It is simply not true, as Mr. Cameron's claims in his preface to Simcha Jacobovici's book, "The Jesus Family Tomb," that we have had no hard evidence for Jesus' existence before now except in the Bible. That ignores mentions in ancient Roman and Jewish historians such Tacitus, Suetonius and Josephus.

The "Jesus tomb" explorers trot out statistics on ancient Hebrew names, claiming that the ones in the tomb sound too much like known Jesus family members for the similarity to be a coincidence. But since we've only excavated a minority of archaeological and tomb sites even in Jerusalem, most ancient names are still buried in the earth, making meaningful statistical analysis difficult. What we can say for certain is that most of the names found in the Talpiot tomb on the outskirts of Jerusalem have been seen in many places elsewhere--in texts, on potsherds, in inscriptions, in the Bible itself. They are not rare even by the standards of the limited evidence we do have.

Any good scientific theory must account for all the evidence--in this case, all the names we find in the Talpiot tomb and not just the ones that match the holy-family theory. For instance, we have a Matthew in the tomb, but Jesus had no brothers named Matthew. And where are brothers like Simon, or the sisters mentioned in Mark 6, and where especially is brother James? We actually know that James was buried within sight of the Temple Mount, and Talpiot is miles from there. Eusebius, the fourth-century church historian, saw the tomb and the standing inscribed slab in front of it.

You also have to ask yourself: Why would most of the holy family from Galilee be buried in a middle-class tomb several miles outside of Jerusalem in some sheep pasture? They were, in fact, poor and could not afford an ornamental tomb like this one. This family was from Nazareth, too, with connections in Bethlehem. Why wouldn't its members be buried in one of those places?

We also know that crucifixion was considered the most shameful and hideous way to die, a blow from which one's family honor did not soon recover, if ever. So shamefully did Jesus die that his first followers and even most of his family abandoned him: He was not buried by family members or by the Galilean disciples. He was put in a tomb near the old city that did not belong to any of them.

Of course, the main implicit contention of the documentary and book is that the Resurrection is demonstrably a fraud--and thus, we must assume, people like Peter and James, the brother of Jesus, were prepared to be martyred in grisly ways to perpetrate a fraud. Resurrection had only one meaning for early Jews--a miracle that happens to a person's body so that they are raised from the dead.

To skeptics, no amount of counterargument will matter. Yet it wouldn't hurt for the rest of us to exercise a bit of skepticism when listening to each year's new theories about Jesus and the "true" history behind the biblical narrative. Amos Kloner, the archaeologist who supervised work at the tomb when it was first discovered in 1980, has called the documentary's claims "impossible" and "nonsense." As a New Testament scholar, I will trust serious scholars like him. Make no bones about it--they have not found Jesus' tomb.

Mr. Witherington is professor of New Testament Interpretation at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Ky., and the author of "What Have They Done With Jesus?"

Full story: Tomb of the (Still) Unknown Ancients

Experts say Jesus tomb is a fantasy

Religion News Blog — Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:14:10 +0000

Claims that the burial site of Jesus, his wife and son have been found in an ancient family cemetery in Jerusalem have been criticised by researchers as fanciful.

Archaeological and DNA evidence to be aired in a documentary later this week and in a book suggests Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had a son, Judah, who were buried with him.

The claim contradicts the Bible's account that Jesus was single, died when crucified, was resurrected three days later and ascended to heaven, central tenets of Christian belief.

But archaeologists, historians and theologians have criticised evidence in the documentary The Lost Tomb of Christ and book The Jesus Family Tomb as far from conclusive.

The film-makers cite evidence of names etched on ossuaries, or limestone bone boxes, dug up at the site, as well as DNA evidence they hold, and other technical analysis.

Five of the 10 boxes in the tomb are inscribed with names that they say refer to key biblical figures: Jesus, Mary, Matthew, Joseph and Mary Magdalene.

A sixth inscription, written in Aramaic, translates to 'Judah son of Jesus'.

Another limestone burial box is labelled in Aramaic with 'Jesus son of Joseph'; another bears the Hebrew inscription 'Maria', a Latin version of 'Miriam', or in English 'Mary'.

Yet another ossuary inscription, written in Hebrew, reads 'Matia', the original Hebrew word for 'Matthew'.

Only one of the inscriptions is written in Greek. It reads, 'Mariamene e Mara', which can be translated as 'Mary known as the master', the documentary says.

The film-maker, Simcha Jacobovici, says a statistical analysis of the names being found together makes it extremely unlikely that it would be anyone else but the biblical family of Jesus.

Andrey Feuerverger, a Canadian statistics professor at the University of Toronto, says the odds are 600 to one.

But not everyone is convinced.

Archaeologist Amos Kloner, a professor at Israel's Bar-Ilan University, documented the tomb as the Jewish burial cave of a well-off family more than 10 years ago.

He says there is no evidence that it was the burial site of Jesus, and that that the names are a coincidence.

"I'm a scholar. I do scholarly work which has nothing to do with documentary film-making. There's no way to take a religious story and to turn it into something scientific," he says.

"Who says that 'Maria' is Magdalena and 'Judah' is the son of Jesus? It cannot be proved. These are very popular and common names from the first century BC."

Kloner says that of 900 burial caves found within 4 kilometres of Jerusalem's Old City and from the same era, the name Jesus or Yeshu was found 71 times, and that 'Jesus son of Joseph' has also been found.

Professor L Michael White, director of the Institute for the Study of Antiquity and Christian Origins at the the University of Texas, says he also doubts the claims are true.

"This is trying to sell documentaries," he says, adding a series of strict tests needed to be conducted before a bone box or inscription could be confirmed as ancient.

"This is not archaeologically sound, this is fanfare."

The DNA evidence

The film-makers also obtained two sets of samples from the ossuaries for DNA and chemical analysis.

The first set consisted of bits of matter taken from the 'Jesus Son of Joseph' and 'Mariamene e Mara' ossuaries. The second set consisted of patina, a chemical film encrustation on one of the limestone boxes.

The human remains were analysed by Dr Carney Matheson, a Canadian scientist at the Paleo-DNA Laboratory at Lakehead University in Ontario.

Mitochondrial DNA examination determined the individual in the Jesus ossuary and the person in the ossuary linked to Mary Magdalene are not related.

Since tombs normally contain either blood relations or spouses, the film-makers say the DNA results suggest Jesus and Mary Magdalene could have been a couple.

But Dr R Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, is far from convinced.

"The DNA testing is to me the most laughable aspect of this," he told CNN.

"You have to have the basis of a DNA sample that would make any sense," he says. "No one has the DNA of Mary."

The Israel Antiquities Authority declined to comment. But in 1996 a spokesman said that the probability of the caskets belonging to the family of Jesus were "next to zero".

Dr Shimon Gibson, one of the archaeologists who discovered the tomb, says he has a "healthy scepticism" the tomb may have belonged to the family of Jesus.

Full story: Experts say Jesus tomb is a fantasy

Director defends Jesus tomb findings

Religion News Blog — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:01:19 +0000

James Cameron is convinced remains are of those of Christ, family

Oscar-winning director James Cameron's controversial new documentary, which claims that Jesus may not have only been buried with a wife, but a son as well, adds an intriguing new piece but certainly doesn't solve the 2,000-year-old puzzle of the life and death of Christ, the filmmaker said in an exclusive interview on TODAY.

"I'm not an archaeologist. I'm a filmmaker," said Cameron, who won the Academy Award for Best Director in 1998 for Titanic. "I looked at the evidence initially, and as a layman I found it to be compelling .... I haven't seen anything that contradicts the initial hypothesis."

"The Lost Tomb of Jesus," which premieres March 4 on the Discovery Channel, chronicles recent efforts to apply modern science and new understanding of Jesus and his followers to the 1980 discovery of a set of ossuaries, or "bone boxes," under what is now an apartment complex near Jerusalem.

Cameron and investigative journalist Simcha Jacobovici, who wrote a companion book, "The Jesus Family Tomb," are defending their work against criticism that they are riding the coattails of Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code" and are trying to profit from promoting theories discredited by archaeologists when the limestone boxes were discovered 27 years ago.

Appearing on TODAY on Monday, Cameron and Jacobovici said statisticians who have looked at markings on the bone boxes estimate that the probability that the remains uncovered in 1980 are not those of Joseph, Mary, Jesus, Mary Magdalene, a son of Jesus and other relatives are more than 100 to 1.

"I think people have their specific agendas and their specific kind of knee-jerk reactions, but I think when they see the film and they see how the evidence is presented, then they should comment," said Cameron.

TODAY host Meredith Vieira, who read the book and watched the documentary, said the implications are astounding given that billions of people have been taught that Jesus was resurrected both in spirit and body, ascended to heaven, never married and had no offspring. The film and book, if accepted, could shake the church that Jesus founded to its core.

"If this is correct, what are the implications? They're huge," Vieira said.

"They are huge, but they are not necessarily the implications that people think they are," Jacobovici said. "For example, some people are going to say, 'This challenges the Resurrection.' I don't know why. If Jesus rose from one tomb, he could have risen from the other tomb."

According to Cameron and Jacobovici, the bones discovered in the limestone boxes in 1980 were quickly reburied, following the Jewish traditions. Archaeologists quickly discounted the theory that the boxes contained the bones of Jesus and his family because the names inscribed on the boxes were quite common in the region during the 1st Century.

Jacobovici said that the archaeologists who were so quick to dismiss the find never asked statisticians for an opinion about the likelihood that boxes inscribed with names like Joseph, Mary and Jesus would all be found in the same place and be dated back to the time that Jesus lived and taught.

"They are common names, these were archaeologists. They never went to statisticians," Jacobovici said. "We're just reporting the news. We're not statisticians. We're not theologians .... Now the debate is going to begin because statisticians say it is significant. DNA experts say it is significant."

"The Lost Tomb of Jesus" airs March 4 on the Discovery Channel at 9 pm ET/8 pm CT.

Full story: Director defends Jesus tomb findings

Archaeologist Disputes Claims in James Cameron’s “The Lost Tomb of Christ”

Religion News Blog — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:06:37 +0000

Feb. 26, 2007 — - In late 1982 Tova Bracha's family moved into a modest apartment in a cluster of cookie-cutter housing units in Talpiyot, a Jerusalem neighborhood. It's a place better known for its body shops and illicit casinos than earth-shattering archaeological finds.

A few days later her children were playing in the construction debris downstairs, and rediscovered what James Cameron's new documentary, "The Lost Tomb of Christ" says is the tomb of Jesus and his family.

The kids wiggled into the tomb and found burnt Torah scrolls and 10 small caskets bearing the 2000-year-old bones of an ancient Jewish family. Six of them had inscriptions bearing the names: Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the Greek version of Mary Magdalene.

Tova Bracha immediately phoned the archaeologists from Israel's Antiquities Authority. They sealed the tomb and studied the bones. For years it was just another of the many tombs of ancient middle class families that lived roughly in the time of Jesus.

Archaeologist: More Than 900 Tombs Like This One

Two years earlier Israeli archaeologist Professor Amos Kloner was the first to find the tomb. He found the tomb and the ossuaries -- the urns or vaults used to hold the bones of the dead -- interesting, but of no particular archaeological importance. He says there are more than 900 buried tombs just like the "Jesus" tomb within a two-mile radius of Talpiyot. Of them, 71 bear the name Jesus and two Jesus, son of Joseph. The tomb in Talpiyot is one of them. But the inscription, he says, was barely decipherable and therefore questionable.

At the time, Jesus was a very common name, as was Mary. But the cluster of all those names together, Jesus, Joseph Mary, not to mention what the filmmakers claim is Jesus' son, "Judah, son of Jesus," is indeed unusual. Simply because the tomb is labeled a tomb that "belonged to a Jesus, doesn't make it the tomb of Jesus Christ," Kloner told ABC News.

Jerusalem-based biblical anthropologist Joe Zias goes a step farther to discredit Cameron's documentary. "What they've done here," Zias says, "is they've simply tried in a very very dishonest way to try and con the public into believing that this is the tomb of Jesus or Jesus' family. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus."

Zias pointed out a number of contradictions that he says undermines the claim. Jesus was a very common name at the time -- Mary even more so. Zias claims 48 percent of women living at the time were named Mary, Mariam or the Hebrew name, Shlomzion. In addition, Jesus' family was poor. Those who paid for the tomb were middle class, at least. If Jesus' family did have the cash, the family tomb would likely have been situated in Nazareth. After all, Jesus was known as Jesus of Nazareth.

The film has also sent shockwaves throughout the Christian world, shaking the foundation of a religion established on the tenets that Jesus, a single man who never married, was crucified, died, and was resurrected.

Father Peter Boutross of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, the place Jesus was said to have been born, says the findings are false. Like other films before it, and probably future films, Boutross said, Cameron's "The Lost Tomb of Christ" is "an attempt to deny the fundamental truths of Christianity." Jesus did not marry Mary Magdalene, nor did he have a son, he insists.

The story grabbed front page headlines in Israel's tabloids Monday. News crews flocked to the site of the tomb. Bewildered locals in this gritty middle class Jerusalem neighborhood didn't quite know what to make of all the ruckus.

Bracha, like her neighbors would prefer it, she says, if the huddle of reporters would free up her stairwell. One neighbor called the police to roust them. Perhaps, he asked politely, CNN, which is parked along the street downstairs, could move its live position so residents could enter the street and maybe reclaim a semblance of privacy.

But ultimately, she adds, "Whatever comes of [the film], if it's good for the Christians it's good for me too."

Full story: Archaeologist Disputes Claims in James Cameron’s “The Lost Tomb of Christ”

Scholars Criticize Jesus Documentary

Religion News Blog — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:59:05 +0000

NEW YORK (AP) - To resolve the question of whether the remains of Jesus and Mary Magdalene may have rested in two limestone boxes discovered in a Jerusalem suburb, the filmmakers of a new documentary took novel approaches - including turning to statisticians.

Some religious scholars and archaeologists, however, have not been convinced by the numbers.

Filmmakers showed the two boxes on Monday while promoting their documentary, ``The Lost Tomb of Jesus,'' produced by Oscar-winning director James Cameron and airing on the Discovery Channel on March 4.

It argues that 10 first-century bone boxes, called ossuaries, discovered in 1980 may have contained the bones of Jesus and his family.

One of the boxes even bears the title, ``Judah son of Jesus,'' hinting that Jesus had a son. The claim that Jesus even had an ossuary contradicts the Christian belief that he was resurrected and ascended to heaven.

A panel of scholars that joined the filmmakers Monday at the New York Public Library addressed that criticism and others.

James Tabor, a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, said that while literal interpreters of the Bible say Jesus' physical body rose from the dead, ``one might affirm resurrection in a more spiritual way in which the husk of the body is left behind.''

But Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said Christianity ``has always understood the physical resurrection of Christ to be at the very center of the faith.''

Cameron, who won an Academy Award for directing ``Titanic,'' said he was excited to be associated with the Jesus film, which was directed by Toronto filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici.

``We don't have any physical record of Jesus' existence,'' he said. ``So what this film ... shows is for the first time tangible, physical, archaeological and in some cases forensic evidence.''

He said that to a layman's eye ``it seemed pretty darn compelling.''

Jacobovici and archaeologist Charles Pellegrino also are the authors of ``The Jesus Family Tomb,'' newly published by HarperSan Francisco. Jacobovici said that a name on one of the ossuaries, Mariamene, is a major support to the argument that the tomb is that of Jesus and his family. In early Christian texts, Mariamene is a name of Mary Magdalene, he said.

Most Christians believe Jesus' body spent three days at the site of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem's Old City. The burial site identified in the documentary is in a southern Jerusalem neighborhood nowhere near the church.

In 1996, when the British Broadcasting Corp. aired a short documentary on the subject, archaeologists challenged the link to Jesus and his family. Amos Kloner, the first archaeologist to examine the site, said the idea fails to hold up to archaeological standards but makes for profitable television.

``They just want to get money for it,'' Kloner said.

But Shimon Gibson, who along with Kloner was among the three archaeologists who discovered the tomb in 1980, attended Monday's news conference and said of the film's claims: ``I'm skeptical, but that's the way I am. I'm willing to accept the possibility.''

The film's claims have raised the ire of Christian leaders in the Holy Land.

Stephen Pfann, a biblical scholar at the University of the Holy Land in Jerusalem who was interviewed in the documentary, said the film's hypothesis holds little weight.

``I don't think that Christians are going to buy into this,'' Pfann said. ``But skeptics, in general, would like to see something that pokes holes into the story that so many people hold dear.''

The first of the ossuaries' inscriptions, written in Aramaic, reads, ``Yeshua bar Yosef,'' or ``Jesus son of Joseph.'' The second, in Hebrew, reads, ``Maria.'' The third, in Hebrew, reads, ``Matia,'' or ``Matthew.'' The fourth inscription, in Hebrew, reads, ``Yose,'' a nickname for ``Yosef,'' or ``Joseph.'' The fifth, in Greek, reads, ``Mariamene e Mara,'' which the filmmakers said means ``Mary the master'' or ``Mary the teacher.'' The sixth, in Aramaic, reads, ``Yehuda bar Yeshua,'' or Judah son of Jesus.''

Jacobovici said the ossuaries did not initially seem extraordinary because the names were all common.

But the filmmakers had statisticians calculate the likelihood that any other family in first-century Jerusalem would have had that cluster of names.

``The numbers range from 1 in 100 to 1 in 1,000 that there is some other family,'' said Andrey Feuerverger, a professor of mathematics at the University of Toronto.

Osnat Goaz, a spokeswoman for the Israeli government agency responsible for archaeology, said the Antiquities Authority agreed to send two ossuaries to New York, where they were displayed at Monday's news conference - ``but it doesn't mean that we agree with'' the filmmakers, Goaz said.

The ossuaries do not contain any bones. The bones were reburied after their discovery, as is standard practice with archaeological finds in Israel.

But Jacobovici said DNA evidence can nonetheless be collected from the boxes. He said DNA analysis has so far proved that Jesus and Mariamene, the putative Mary Magdalene, were not siblings and therefore could have been husband and wife.

Associated Press writer Marshall Thompson contributed to this report from Jerusalem, and AP Religion Writer Rachel Zoll contributed from New York.

Full story: Scholars Criticize Jesus Documentary

The Lost Tomb of Jesus — Larry King Live

Religion News Blog — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:38:24 +0000

LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight [...] an explosive announcement by "Titanic" director James Cameron that's setting off passionate debate among Christians around the world.

Is this where Jesus was buried?

We'll take you to this ancient Jerusalem tomb, which James Cameron claims may have held Jesus' bones and evidence Jesus had a son.

But if Jesus was resurrected, would there even be Earthly remains?

It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
[...]

An extraordinary event is going to take place on the Discovery Channel this Sunday night, March 4th. They will premier the last -- or, rather, "The Lost Tomb of Jesus." There is a companion book accompanying it, "The Jesus Family Tomb," being published by Harper San Francisco.

We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE from New York, James Cameron, the Oscar winning filmmaker. Good to see him again.

He is the executive producer of "The Lost Tomb of Jesus."

And Simcha Jacobovici. He is the Emmy Award winning documentarian, the director, producer and writer of "The Lost Tomb of Jesus."

And we'll have some comments from Ben Wedeman, our CNN senior correspondent in Jerusalem.

And there you see Ben in front of what might be the tomb.

Jim, give me a little history here.

What's this all about?

JAMES CAMERON, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE LOST TOMB OF JESUS": Well, Simcha came to me about two years ago with this project and asked if I wanted to be involved. And at first I was kind of skeptical and I asked to see the evidence. I said what have you got, because it was just -- there was too much of a wow factor. It was just -- it was just too unfathomable.

And as I got into it and I really studied what he had, what Simcha had basically done was he had connected the dots between two unconnected things. You had experts, on the one hand, who had understood that there were certain names in 1st or 2nd century Christian texts. And then, on the other hand, you had archaeologists who had found this tomb in 1980, in Jerusalem.

And in that tomb they found -- they found ossuaries with some very provocative names. There was Jesus, son of Joseph. There were two Marys. There was another Joseph, a diminutive name, "Yosef." And there was a Matthew and there was a Judah.

And it turns out that -- that when Simcha was able to connect all the dots, it started to look like a compelling case for this being the tomb of Jesus.

KING: Simcha, what took from 1980 to 2007 for this to come about as a documentary?

SIMCHA JACOBOVICI, DIRECTOR, "THE LOST TOMB OF JESUS": Well, I wasn't involved in 1980. In 1980, the archaeologists found the tomb. It was archaeologists. It wasn't found by some amateurs or something like that. They found this cluster of names. But they dismissed the cluster because they said statistically it's not significant. There were a lot of people named Judas, Mary. And so, Jesus, Judah, Mary, and so on, it's not significant. It's common names.

The other thing is, the second Mary in the tomb wasn't Mary Magdalene, you know?

And her name was a variant of Miriam, a Greek variant, Mariamene. So there's two Marys in the tomb, one named Maria, which is -- comes down to, in the Christian tradition, the mother of Jesus; but the other one, Mariamene.

They couldn't have known in 1980 that in the 1990s, the scholars -- New Testament scholars at Harvard, Princeton, and so on -- would conclude that Mary Magdalene's title was Mary from Magdala, the city Magdala. But her name is Mariamene. They didn't know that. So the archaeologists didn't know what the New Testament guys knew and the New Testament people didn't know what the archaeologists knew.

KING: I see.

JACOBOVICI: Once we connected those dots then...

KING: That's it.

JACOBOVICI: Yes.

KING: Got you.

Simcha, are we saying -- are you saying in this documentary that Jesus married Mary, that they had a son and that they're all buried in that tomb?

JACOBOVICI: What I'm reporting is the news. There are six names in that tomb. One of them is Jesus, son of Joseph. There's two Marys. There's a Matthew. There's a Judah, son of Jesus.

Now, if Mary Magdalene is buried in that tomb, then her DNA should not match Jesus, son of Joseph. So we took -- we didn't do it -- we filmed experts taking not bones. There were no bones there. The bones had been reburied in 1980. But they were able, with today's technology -- that's another thing that was not available in 1980. Anybody who watches "CSI" knows today you can get DNA from human residue...

KING: Right.

JACOBOVICI: ... or even human stains.

KING: So what did they find?

JACOBOVICI: What they found is that Jesus, son of Joseph, buried in that tomb; and Mariamene, which is the name of Mary Magdalene, who were buried together and have been together for 2,000 years in that tomb, were not related by DNA matrilineally. So the suggestion is very strong that they, if they're in the same family tomb, that they are husband and wife.

KING: Yes.

Ben Wedeman is our CNN senior correspondent in Jerusalem.

First, Ben, where are you located?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, JERUSALEM: Well, we're in East Talpiot, which is a southern suburb of Jerusalem. And we are right in front of what it is claimed in this documentary is the tomb of Jesus of Nazareth, as you mentioned. So we are here.

Obviously, there's no way for us to actually get inside the tomb. We're very anxious to see this documentary that, of course, doesn't air until the 4th of March.

But we did spend a good deal of time today speaking with some of Israel's prominent archaeologists, including Amos Kloner, who was an archaeologist who did sort of a detailed study of the contents of this tomb. And he was rather skeptical about the documentary. At the same time, he, in fact, told us he was about to view the documentary, so he hasn't passed final judgment on it.

But, Larry, he was rather skeptical.

KING: Ben, is there a lot of talk there about this?

WEDEMAN: Oh, sure. This is front page news. It's on all the evening broadcasts. This is very much the talk of Jerusalem at the moment. But, of course, they are referring this story to Israel's prominent archaeologists, who, by and large, as I said, are fairly skeptical -- Larry.

KING: Thanks, Ben.

Thanks for staying up to do this for us.

When we come back, James and Simcha will remain. And we'll be joined by Dr. Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, an ordained minister and a critic of this, right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE LOST TOMB OF JESUS," COURTESY THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to statistics, if we were on a crowded street in ancient Jerusalem and called out the name Jesus, there would be approximately a 4 percent chance that a Jesus would be there.

If we were to call out the name Mary, we would have a 25 percent chance of finding a Mary. Not bad odds.

But what Feuerverger explains is that if we were to call out for Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Matthew and Yosef all at the same time, the chances of all those individuals being on the same street together are quite low.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: As we come back, we show you that scene in eastern Jerusalem. The scene purported to be of the tomb of Jesus Christ and family members. James Cameron, the Oscar-winning filmmaker, is the executive producer. Simcha Jacobovici is the Emmy award-winning documentarian and the director, producer and writer of "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" that airs Sunday night on Discovery Channel. We are joined now in Louisville, Kentucky, by Dr. Albert Mohler Jr., president, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Since so much of your faith is belief, no one has all of the facts in front of them, Dr. Mohler, what do you make of this startling discovery, if it is what it is? ALBERT MOHLER JR., PRES., SOUTHERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: Well, it is only startling in terms of the sensationalism, I think, of public relations here. You are talking about a tomb that was discovered, as you said, well over two decades ago. The archaeologists there in Israel, who are the closest to this, have the greatest expertise, are not only looking at this with skepticism, but basically dismissing its claims.

You are talking about frankly trying to dress up an old documentary, the BBC did something like this over a decade ago, with this kind of supposed statistical research and DNA testing. The DNA testing is to me the most laughable aspect of all of this. I mean, frankly, there could be a thousand, thousand different explanations for whatever DNA pattern they could find.

No one has the DNA of Mary. You know, trying to bring this into a modern crime investigation is like trying to go back and figure out who exactly put the first dagger into Julius Caesar. It's impossible.

KING: Dr. Mohler, aren't you, as an intelligent person, open to the possibility of new things? We have modern technology. Things can be discovered now we never knew about. DNA was not known 25 years ago.

MOHLER: Well, that's true. But, again, you have to have a basis of a DNA sample that would make any sense. I mean, here you're talking about some people in a tomb who are related, and some, at least one, who was not. That can be explained by, frankly, by any kind of marriage, you would expect that to be the case.

When it comes down to new discoveries and new technology, there is no technology. There is no time machine here that is going to take us back to the First Century and actually tell us what happened there.

I'm going to base my beliefs on the scriptures which hold together far better than the kind of farcical documentary we are talking about here, throwing in a little bit of statistics. I mean, you're talking about the most common names, especially the most common male names, also frankly, female with the name Mary, you're talking about anything that could be found just about anywhere.

And then there are some rather really far-fetched claims. I mean, after all, you're talking about a poor, peasant family from Nazareth with an ancestral heritage in Bethlehem. There's no logical reason why their bones should end up in a middle class tomb in Jerusalem.

KING: Right. That's fair enough. Hold on. James Cameron, how -- before we call on Simcha, how would you respond to the critique of -- you're the exec. Producer?

JAMES CAMERON, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE LOST TOMB OF JESUS": I think these are excellent points that are being made and they are certainly things that we considered as we made this film. I think the idea that -- for example, that they were a poor family. They were the leaders of -- in their time, Jesus and Mary Magdalene and Mary -- Maria, his mother, they were the leaders of somewhat oppressed movement that was oppressed by the Romans and, to a large extent, also by the Pharisees, the Jewish authorities at the time because it was a little bit radical.

So -- but they were a religious movement with a very large followership. And they would have had the resources in later years to have a tomb at least as substantial as what we found.

KING: Simcha, if what you're purporting here is true, not as a pun, is this the end of the Easter Bunny?

SIMCHA JACOBOVICI, DIRECTOR & PRODUCER, "THE LOST TOMB OF JESUS": Well, first of all, I'm not a theologian. And I don't think anything that has been found here -- people are having a knee-jerk reaction. They have not seen the film and yet this gentleman is calling it farcical.

I hear that all leading Israeli archaeologists are against it. That's not true. We had a press conference today, professor Shimon Gibson (ph), one of the two people who excavated the tomb, and said he's totally open to the possibility that this is the tomb of Jesus of Nazareth.

We ourselves, we are not statisticians, we are not archaeologists. We went to archaeologists and archaeologists are in the film, professor Kloner, who is skeptical, is in the film saying, I'm skeptical. But others are not so skeptical, because when you take the names and the cluster of names, this gentleman, he's not a statistician. I'm not a statistician. With all due respect, Israeli archaeologists are not statisticians.

When we went to statisticians, and nobody else bothered, not the BBC, with all due respect, in 1996, to asked statisticians, what is the likelihood that this particular cluster of names would be found together? And the statisticians said 2 million to 1 in favor of the tomb. And the most conservative, professor Andrey Feuerverger, a professor of mathematics and statistics at the University of Toronto, said 600 to 1.

Frankly, even if he said it's 2 to 1 possible that this is the tomb of Jesus of Nazareth, we would have a duty to report it. We are reporters. That's all we are doing. We are reporting the statistics, the archaeology and the patina, the DNA. And people should, frankly, watch the film, read the book before they already decide. First the questions, then the answers. Not the other way around.

KING: Hold on a second, hold, got to take a break. Our panel will remain. Dr. Mohler will remain. We will be joined by one of the more prominent theologians and teachers and authors in America, Dr. James Tabor, right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus son of Joseph.

(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Joining us now from New York is Dr. James D. Tabor, chairman of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. His books include "The Jesus Dynasty," "The Hidden History of Jesus: His Royal Family and the Birth of Christianity."

Dr. Tabor, what do you make of all of this?

JAMES TABOR, CHAIRMAN, DEPT. OF RELIGIOUS STUDIES, UNIV. NORTH CAROLINA AT CHARLOTTE: Well, I have been actually been working on it for about three or four years. And I do think that it is very worthy of consideration that we look at the cluster of names, the form of the names. And what I have tried to ask -- I'm not an archaeologist. I'm not a statistician. But from what I know of the historical records, both in the New Testament and other early Christian records, do these names fit what we know of the family of Jesus?

And I think the main thing that comes out, besides that Mariamene that I think has been mentioned, is the name of Jesus' lost brother. We have got -- Jesus had four brothers, James, Joseph, Jude and Simon. And when Jesus dies in the year 30, James takes over. This is well known to historians.

But after James dies in 62, instead of Joseph taking over, the next brother, Simon. So we have sort of lost Joseph. And there is this Jose in the tomb, which is the nickname for Jesus, brother of James, that's used in the Gospel of Mark three times.

So I think -- I am trying to put the historical records of the New Testament in with the archaeological data and the stats. And I think it's a good fit. It certainly is worth considering and talking about in a non-sensational way.

KING: This documentary will air on March 4th, Sunday. Dr. Mohler, Dr. Tabor is certainly a renowned theologian and student of all of this, been studying it all of his life, why not be open to at least think about it, talk about it, look at it? Don't you want to inquire or just not accept anything that is introduced?

MOHLER: Well, you have to accept the first part of any question. What kind of evidence could possibly be adduced that would make any sense in this? And the DNA evidence, even the statistical evidence given the preponderance of the names that are found in the ancient Near East, especially in the area we now call Israel, I mean, this kind of thing would be laughed out of court.

And frankly, I'm a bit surprised by Dr. Tabor's, at least, qualified endorsement of this, given the fact that this appears to me to be at least very inconsistent what he's arguing in his own book about Jesus not being the son of Joseph, which, by the way, we Christians don't hold either. But he's never known as the son of Joseph in terms of early Christian witness, he is never mentioned that way.

TABOR: No, he is. He's actually known as the son of Joseph in the New Testament, that certainly was his legal title.

MOHLER: It is not a name by which he was known in early Christian references at all. And you, if I'm not mistaken, Dr. Tabor...

TABOR: Well, he is called Jesus, son of Joseph, five times in the New Testament. So I don't know...

MOHLER: You argue that he's not the son of Joseph in your book, you also argue that if there is a tomb, it was likely to be in Galilee. So, I mean, you talk about...

TABOR: Well, that would be another show. But let's stay with this...

MOHLER: Well, we are talking about moving all of the pieces here to make for sensational television. And frankly, that's why I think most Christians are going to take this without any seriousness at all.

TABOR: We are talking about a tomb in Talpiot that is in my book that has these six names, and whether they are common or not. The names are relatively common. But James, for example, is 2 percent. I would not call that very common. Jesus is 9 percent. That's not very common.

MOHLER: That is almost one 1 of 10 of every male.

TABOR: You know, I will tell you, Dr. Mohler, if you had a football stadium with 50,000 people and you had all of the Jesuses stand up, it would be 3,000. So that's somewhat common. If you said, how many of you had a another named Mary? It would go down to 397. If you said, how many have a father named Joseph? It would go down again. And then if you say, a brother named James or Simon, it gets down to one person with just four questions.

So statistics are not intuitive. I'm not a statistician. I take it you aren't either.

MOHLER: No...

(CROSSTALK)

TABOR: But I have been told by statisticians, don't judge by the fact that you -- it's not, Bill, Peter, John and Sam here.

MOHLER: If we were back in Jerusalem in that hypothetical football stadium, and you could do that exercise, that would be far more interesting. But giving credence to something like DNA testing with no basis...

(CROSSTALK)

TABOR: But do you think there would more than one Jesus left standing after four questions would be the question. I don't think there would be, because from what I have been told by the stats, that's the math. A father, mother and a brother is going to take you down to a single person.

KING: All right. James Cameron, do you believe that this documentary is true, or are you just presenting what you have learned and let the audience decide? What do you believe?

CAMERON: I think that based on the evidence that's presented in the documentary and my kind of layman's knowledge of it, because I'm not an archaeologist, I'm not a statistician, I'm not theologian, I'm none of those things, I'm a filmmaker and a documentarian, I think that based on the evidence that we have right now, there's a very, very compelling case that this should be taken seriously and should be given further study.

The thing that people have to remember is, this is a documentary. We have limited resources to do forensic research, scientific sampling, and we have limited resources to contact every expert in every related field worldwide. The experts that we did contact did give us -- did give us a favorable response to the hypothesis that this is the tomb.

So the short answer is, yes, provisionally, based on what we know right now, I think that this is compelling. New evidence can come in tomorrow that refutes it. But right now, we are not there.

KING: Well, let me get a break. Dr. Tabor, thank you for joining us. William Donohue will be with us in a moment. He's president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights. As we continue -- again, reminder, this documentary airs on the Discovery Channel Sunday. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can this stone coffin be linked to Jesus of Nazareth? To answer that question we have to examine all of the archaeological evidence uncovered in this family tomb. Does it fit with Christian tradition? Does it challenge certain articles of faith?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: That's the site in Israel purported to be the tomb of Jesus Christ, major discussions in Israel. Front page news in Israel. And the subject of "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," a book to be coming from HarperSanFrancisco and an award-winning producer/director, James Cameron and Simcha Jacobovici, who have both teamed together to bring "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" to the Discovery Channel on Sunday. They remain with us, as does Dr. Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. And joining us now in New York is William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights.

Good to see you again, Bill.

WILLIAM DONOHUE, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC LEAGUE: How are you doing, Larry?

KING: Fine. What's your thoughts?

DONOHUE: Well, here's my thought. You know, at the Catholic League, we have been tracking this stuff now for about 15, 20 years. That is to say every single Lenten season there's somebody, some author or someone of these TV magazine shows which puts out some doubts about the resurrection or Jesus' divinity.

Last year it was NBC. The year before that it was ABC. You can go back check it out on our Web site. Now look, I'm not imputing bad motive here. I'm simply saying this, we have a mountain of speculation with the icing on the top is some kind of corroborative statistical argument here.

I do agree with James on one thing, I want to see the evidence on this. I'm not afraid as a Christian to see the evidence on this. But Simcha, you know something, I've got to call in question your credibility. In 2002, the Discovery Channel, your friends which are putting this one on, on Sunday, they were the ones who came out and said that we have this ossuary of James, right?

Well, what happened? Fifteen experts in Israel looked at this and they said it was a monumental fraud. You have had guys from Tel Aviv University and from Harvard who say it's a fraud. You're quoted in today's Newsweek as saying you still believe it. How in the world could I have any credibility with you at this point?

JACOBOVICI: Is that a rhetorical question or do I get to answer?

DONOHUE: Go ahead and answer.

JACOBOVICI: OK. I believe in asking questions and then reaching conclusions. The fact is you just called that ossuary a fraud. The fact is...

DONOHUE: I didn't call it, the experts did.

JACOBOVICI: No. Because what's going on, there is a trial that is actually resuming tomorrow. The jury is literally out on this particular ossuary. So I am not going to call people forgers before a judge called them forgers. There have been experts on both sides. And actually, in this film and the book we show new evidence that was conducted right here in New York State, at the CSI lab at Suffolk City by Bob Jenna (ph), who is the head of that lab, and by Dr. Charles Pellegrino, that suggest that that Patina is authentic and actually originates with a missing ossuary from this tomb.

DONOHUE: The...

JACOBOVICI: So what I'm saying -- what I'm saying is, I'm putting forward the evidence and I'm not reaching conclusions before -- while the trial is still resuming.

DONONUE: Listen, I'm not...

JACOBOVICI: A man is innocent until proven guilty, that is all I'm saying.

DONOHUE: I'm simply saying that the Israel Antiquity Association voted 15-0 that it was a monumental fraud.

JACOBOVICI: Science is not a matter of voting.

DONOHUE: Oh, now all of a sudden we have science as being held in question. So which...

JACOBOVICI: No, no, that is not true.

DONOHUE: Getting kind of slippery here.

JACOBOVICI: No, no.

DONOHUE: Do you invoke science when it becomes...

JACOBOVICI: I don't know what...

DONOHUE: ... useful to your argument?

JACOBOVICI: By screaming, it does not make it true or false. All I'm trying to tell you is that Dr. Crombine (ph), who is the world's top expert on stone, in the world, has testified in that trial the inscription, "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus," is authentic. I have just told you that Suffolk City CSI lab says it's authentic. The Royal Ontario Museum says it is authentic. What I'm trying to tell you is -- you don't have to get excited. You have to just listen to the evidence and weigh it.

DONOHUE: No, I have looked at the evidence myself.

JACOBOVICI: OK. Did you really doubt (ph)...

(CROSSTALK)

DONOHUE: They don't agree with you.

JACOBOVICI: ... tomorrow the trial resumes?

KING: What are you -- Dr. Mohler and Bill Donohue, I guess we will ask Bill first, are you afraid of learning something? I'm trying to figure out.

DONOHUE: Oh no, no. As a matter of fact, I want this pursued because someone is wrong here. And I like this idea of looking at the empirical evidence. But you know what you can't do? This forced idea of connecting dots. I have seen it in the social sciences and they exist in natural sciences.

Somebody takes -- starts off with a predicate this could be true. And then they tie it to something else, which could be true. By the time you're finished with this game, you have nothing but a mountain of speculation. And the idea that is preposterous that somehow you are going to come up with some statistical measure. Dr. Al Mohler is absolutely right on the money when he says, you don't have any DNA evidence here in 2007 that you can resolve this. I think we have to be extremely tentative and cautious. But, no, Larry, I want the truth to come out. And I am confident.

KING: All right. Let me get a break on time here. We'll be right back with our remaining moments. Don't forget, it does air Sunday and everyone should watch it just to be enlightened a little. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We are back. Dr. Mohler, what effect could this have on your church?

MOHLER: Well, Larry, the one true thing that we have to affirm here is that if it ever could be proved that Jesus Christ did not rise from the dead, if the resurrection was a fraud, then Christianity falls.

The problem with this kind of documentary, which is a commercial product, and as Bill Donohue rightly said, is just perfectly timed for is the season like so often is the case, is, you have to understand, any court of law, you can't just call anything evidence. It has to be an evidence trail that makes sense. It has to be evidentiary material that fits the context. Nothing could ever prove, there's no DNA, there's nothing that could ever prove these bones are the bones of Jesus. It makes no sense.

KING: Haven't millions of people over the years gone to their death for a belief?

MOHLER: But the point is here, they would have to go to their death for something they know was a lie. If they knew that the bones of Jesus were in this tomb, why would the very people who would be most likely know that be the ones who would give their lives? That's the big question here.

KING: Simcha, you know you are going to create a great deal of controversy next Monday morning?

JACOBOVICI: Larry, we don't challenge resurrection. We are not theologians. And actually, I don't -- you know, I spoke to theologians, they said, if he rose from one tomb, he could have just as easily have arisen from a second tomb.

The question of a bodily ascension, from what I understand, is a problem. But most Christians believe in a spiritual ascension and a physical resurrection. We are not in...

KING: Catholics, I think, believe in a bodily.

JACOBOVICI: We are not in the theology business. All we are doing here is we are reporting the news. The fact is this tomb is real, underneath the cement slab that you see in the picture. The fact is that there are six names in there, Jesus, son of Joseph, two Marys, a Matthew, a Jose. We are reporting the news. And people will take it and do what they will with it.

KING: I must ask James Cameron, when is your next feature film?

(LAUGHTER)

CAMERON: Well, I have to go back to L.A. and shoot on it tomorrow. It's coming out in '09, Memorial Day, '09.

KING: What is it about?

CAMERON: It is called "Avatar," it's a big science fiction film that takes place on another planet. A little bit different than this one.

DONOHUE: This is science fiction, too. That's the only difference.

(LAUGHTER)

DONOHUE: You're a master of science fiction, James.

CAMERON: A slightly different budget on our documentary. This is a $2 million documentary. If we had had a little more money, we could have done a lot more research. So that's...

KING: Bill Donohue, just so I understand, the Catholics believe Christ literally rose, right? The body rose.

DONOHUE: That's right. That's right.

KING: So what does this do to your faith?

DONOHUE: It doesn't do anything because we are in the world of science fiction, Larry. I mean, quite frankly, you know, give me a call when somebody has got the real evidence on something like this. Every Lenten season, I say we are treated to the same kind of speculation. Jesus was just a carpenter. I suppose we will learn next year he did his apprenticeship at Home Depot or Lowe's.

I mean, I'm just simply not going to sit here and listen to something about an argument which is predicated on nothing but idle speculation.

JACOBOVICI: But you don't know that. You have not reviewed the evidence.

DONOHUE: No, I am not an archaeologist. I'm a sociologist. But I think I know what "Titanic" fraud is.

KING: Simcha, when does the book come out?

JACOBOVICI: The book is out tomorrow, I believe, and it is called "The Jesus Family Tomb."

KING: Thank you all very much, James Cameron, Simcha Jacobovici, Dr. Albert Mohler, and Bill Donohue. We are exciting to begin text voting tonight on LARRY KING LIVE. Our first poll has to do with tomorrow night's guest, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. We all know that Nancy made history as the first female speaker of the House. The question is, is the nation ready for its first female president? Text your vote to CNNTV from your cell phone. Text KINGA for yes, or KINGB for no. We will reveal the results on tomorrow night's show with our guest, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.

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Full story: The Lost Tomb of Jesus — Larry King Live

Jesus, Magdalene & son in Talpiot tomb

Religion News Blog — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:28:16 +0000

The Discovery TV Channel has released new details of the "Lost Tomb of Jesus" documentary that is to be officially launched at a New York press conference on Monday, including the claim that Jesus was buried in a Jerusalem tomb alongside Mary Magdalene and, possibly, their son Judah.

The film also suggests that the so-called "James, Brother of Jesus" ossuary, which surfaced in 2002 in the collection of Israeli antiquities collector Oded Golan, may also have come from the tomb. The "James" ossuary made world headlines, but the Israel Antiquities Authority has branded part of the actual inscription a forgery, though it still has many defenders.

According to the website of the Discovery Channel, for whom the "Lost Tomb of Jesus" documentary was produced, Israeli-born filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici and his colleagues have gathered scientific evidence, "including DNA analysis conducted at one of the world's foremost molecular genetics laboratories," as well as expert scholarship, to bolster their staggering claim that a 2,000-year-old cave in the Talpiot neighborhood once held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary, Mary Magdalene and, possibly, their son Judah.