This post (and poll) was prompted by an exchange of thoughts between Rohit and Incognito on the Hinduism and Homosexuality post. The comments were triggered by Mahesh’s observation viz.

The main reason sited by NAZ foundation for asking the high court to strike down the sec 377 was
1)so that gay can come out and get open access to HIV & AIDS.
2)As its a concsensual act between two adults in private place

ITS ABOUT TIME THAT ON THE BASES OF ABOVE TWO POINTS WHICH ARE VERY MUCH APPLICABLE ON “PROSITUTION”… THEN SHOULDNT PROSITUTION SHOULD ASLO BE LEGALIZED?

As at least a few of you would know, “Prostitution” itself is not illegal in India but organised prostitution and related activities (operating brothels etc) are illegal. Strangely the punishment for a male who indulges in prostitution in/near a public place is only three months while for the woman, it is six months. Clients do not face punishment under the present law and a proposal to criminalise clients of prostitutes came in for criticism and was opposed by the Health Ministry.

The question is: Is this the time to re-visit this matter and take a more restrictive, or indeed broader, view?

I am aware that this can be a pretty intense and serious debate and there are no easy answers…Like most of my readers, I am interested in hearing differing view-points…hopefully out of a discussion, some sensible points would emerge.

I have excerpted Rohit and Incognito’s comments below, and added a quick poll so that I can hear your views.

First the poll.

If you would like to read some view-points before making up your mind, the discussion below will help. Read on for an exchange of thoughts between Incognito and Rohit. Thanks.

***

Comment by Rohit:

Prostitution should be legalized and also not called by the dirty word prostitution. They should have proper code of ethics as is applicable for practicing professionals like lawyers, chartered accountants etc. Sex is a natural human need and legalization of sex as a business will bring down the crime rate against women, contribute to taxes and make individuals more responsible towards society.

***
Comment by Incognito:

>>>>“Sex is a natural human need”

Marriage is there to cater to that need.

>>>> legalization of sex as a business will bring down the crime rate against women,

will cause people to look upon women as commodity that can be bought and sold.
Will cause greedy men to offer and entice and ‘conquer’ those not yet in the field, with money, legally.

Disharmony at homes will increase.

Ethics and moral values in society will disappear.

Finally, Will you like it if somebody offers for a family member of yours ?

You seems to be too much under the influence of ‘liberal’ ideas presently being propagated by interested parties.

***

Comment by Rohit:

TO Incognito
1) Marriage is there to cater to that need
Brothels still exist. Call girl business still exists, catered to by married persons.
2) Will cause people to look upon women as commodity that can be bought and sold… Will cause greedy men to offer and entice and ‘conquer’ those not yet in the field, with money, legally… Disharmony at homes will increase… Ethics and moral values in society will disappear
Nothing like this happens in countries/ societies where prostitution is legalized. For example, nothing evil happened when Ladies Bar concept was prevalent in Mumbai… Nothing good has happened from the time it has been declared illegal… Society is running the same way.
3) Finally, Will you like it if somebody offers for a family member of yours?
Out of context and way; a figment of your extended imagination, to stoke deliberate emotional outburst; because I did not, anywhere advocate that prostitution should be run in a way where in I go out and start bidding on your female family members. Neither the same happens where prostitution is legalized.
4) You seems to be too much under the influence of ‘liberal’ ideas presently being propagated by interested parties
Loose and inconclusive statement… No Comments.

***

Comment by INCOGNITO

>>> “Brothels still exist. Call girl business still exists, catered to by married persons. ”

You don’t see the wrong in such unlawful and unethical activities. You would rather see them legalised.
Yielding to unrighteousness is the first step to degrading yourself and society.

Inability to discern righteousness or refusal to perceive it is no excuse .

>>> Nothing like this happens in countries/ societies where prostitution is legalized. For example, nothing evil happened when Ladies Bar concept was prevalent in Mumbai…

Have you seen the mechanical faces of women in dance bars of Mumbai ? Women, girls, who have to forcibly put on a ‘interested’ look towards the customers ?
Girls who would rather not go with customers but have to if some of them takes special interest in them ?

Do you realise the degradation and helplessness many of those girls feel ?

You don’t.

You would rather be like the ‘house negro’ of yore who prefers to keep his eyes shut to inconvenient truths and would see only what is convenient.

>>> ” Finally, Will you like it if somebody offers for a family member of yours? Out of context and way; a figment of your extended imagination,

This is the attitude of the house negro mentioned above, refusal to see reality.

What is stopping a neighbourhood richie from offering for one of your family member if he takes a fancy to her ?
Nothing, if it is legal.
And it would be well within the rights of that family member to accept or reject that offer.
And you would be an impassive spectator who will rationalise that she is free to decide what she wants.

Comment by Incognito | July 11, 2009 | Edit

***

Comment by Rohit:

Incognito,
Before I give some logical answers to your postings, I would urge you to be reasonable, rational and not act like a fanatic. Come with some logical statements than emotional crap where in your belief does not make you realize truth. Think independently, rationally than simply believing in a belief. For, a what a person believes is true for that person but the belief is not always true.

1) You don’t see the wrong in such unlawful and unethical activities. You would rather see them legalised. Yielding to unrighteousness is the first step to degrading yourself and society. Inability to discern righteousness or refusal to perceive it is no excuse.

Prostitution exists everywhere since time immortal… This is universal truth. Denying legal existence to something that exists and will exist doesn’t make any positive difference. The majority of persons who take to prostitution want to make quick money or are poor and have no option but to go in for prostitution… The links below in point 2 will help you to read insights to mind of ladies who chose dance bar over prostitution but say they will have to go into prostitution if dance bar is not there.

2) Have you seen the mechanical faces of women in dance bars of Mumbai? Women, girls, who have to forcibly put on a ‘interested’ look towards the customers? Girls who would rather not go with customers but have to if some of them takes special interest in them? Do you realise the degradation and helplessness many of those girls feel? You don’t.

The girls make so much money in dance bars of Mumbai that they can easily run some other business if they didn’t really like the business. Has the illegalization stopped the girls running shows? Didn’t the girls themselves came out and participate in demonstrations against closing of dance bars? http://www.hindu.com/fline/fl2209/stories/20050506001104700.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4409309.stm

3) You would rather be like the ‘house negro’ of yore who prefers to keep his eyes shut to inconvenient truths and would see only what is convenient.
I do not deny existence of truth. Prostitution has existed since time immortality. It exists everywhere. Who hate it have polygamy which is another form of prostitution.

4) This is the attitude of the house negro mentioned above, refusal to see reality. What is stopping a neighbourhood richie from offering for one of your family member if he takes a fancy to her? Nothing, if it is legal. And it would be well within the rights of that family member to accept or reject that offer. And you would be an impassive spectator who will rationalise that she is free to decide what she wants.

Realty I have explained in point 1. Coming down to other points, who are the customers of Call Girls (Also include Models, Upcoming Filmstars… Did you forget Monica Bedi, Mandakini) who can be from high class. For your kind information, Call Girl Business is illegal in India.

***

Comment by Incognito:

>>> Prostitution exists everywhere since time immortal… This is universal truth.

This is a fiction that you want to believe as truth.

Next you will call for legalisation of dacoity because it ‘exists’, of rape because it too ‘exists’, of peadophilia because it exists, of everything that ‘exists’.

Don’t mind if it is pointed out that this is the attitude of the deluded.

In your present frame of mind you are unable to distinguish between what is right and what is not .

Don’t mind it, but truth is that ancient indians called this mentality the Shudra mentality.

One day perhaps you may look back and recognize this for what it is.

>>> The majority of persons who take to prostitution want to make quick money or are poor and have no option but to go in for prostitution…

You haven’t heard of trafficking ?
Why don’t you go out to the red light areas and interview a new comer, not an old hand, whether she came to make money or whether she was forced into it ?

>>> The links below in point 2 will help you to read insights to mind of ladies who chose dance bar over prostitution but say they will have to go into prostitution if dance bar is not there.

because prostition is there. illegal, yet ‘there’. because the government and its police does not uphold what is right by its own law. It is when the government loses sight of what is right that citizens too become unable to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong, and proposes legalisation of wrong to make it right, as you have done.

The state of mind that causes this state of affairs is called Delusion.

Wrong does not become Right by calling it so.

>>>> The girls make so much money in dance bars of Mumbai that they can easily run some other business if they didn’t really like the business.

Just before that you said - “ladies who chose dance bar over prostitution say they will have to go into prostitution if dance bar is not there.”
If these ‘ladies’ made so much money in dance bars that they could easily run some other business, you are contradicting your earlier statement. Are you not ?

Try to comprehend that this is the indication of a mind that is deluded.

>>> Didn’t the girls themselves came out and participate in demonstrations against closing of dance bars?

If you keep believing everything newspapers and TV channels feed you, it is no wonder that you lose your sense of right and wrong.
A prescription- less of TV, less of mainstream newspapers, bit more of personal experience and mediums like internet.

Later perhaps, hard introspection.

Besides that, such instances of women protesting for occupation in dance bars shows how they have become accustomed to that life. It is much like the case of the house negro. Can you understand this ?
Try to understand this point.

>>> And you would be an impassive spectator who will rationalise that she is free to decide what she wants.

Realty I have explained in point 1.

You haven’t explained anything.
You have merely left the sentance “And you would be an impassive spectator who will rationalise that she is free to decide what she wants” hang in the air, unable to face the implication of that future possibility if what you propose comes to pass.
Sometimes this attitude is called ‘escapism’, unwillingness to shoulder responsibility of one’s words etc.

>>> Call Girls (Also include Models, Upcoming Filmstars… Did you forget Monica Bedi, Mandakini) who can be from high class.

That some girls come forward to sell their bodies to make money should set you thinking, about the society that encourages such behaviour and the moral and ethical values in that society. It should set you asking whether you want to be part of such a society or whether you would try to change it, and bring ethical values to it. But no, you recognize in those girls a fellow Vyshya who is willing to sell herself and her morals for money. You recognize a kinship in their lack of values and lack of respect for themselves.

Understand that this lack of ’sense of rightness’ is the result of being under the influence of ‘liberal’ ideas propagated by interested parties, which statement you dismissed earlier as loose and inconclusive.

You may not realise it now, which is understandable, as you are under the deluding influence of ‘liberal’ thoughts. maybe later you will, if you are fortunate, perhaps.

***

Comment by Rohit:

TO Incognito:

1) This is a fiction that you want to believe as truth.

ANSWER:

You didn’t provide any proof to contradict but simply a statement. Tell me what date prostitution first descended on earth?

2) Next you will call for legalisation of dacoity because it ‘exists’, of rape because it too ‘exists’, of peadophilia because it exists, of everything that ‘exists’.

Don’t mind if it is pointed out that this is the attitude of the deluded.

ANSWER:

There is a difference between having a sex with someone with consent and dacoity, rape, paedophilia or similar other things.

What will you call a girl who has had sex with say at least more than one person before she marries a person, works as a housewife or in a company and may have extramarital sex life? She can be your wife too or mine too or any of the bloggers over here and what should be done for she has not committed any crime by satisfying her natural desires. What would you say of a man who has had sex more than once with different girls? Which court or sane person or a rational person has the right to say that it is crime to have sex with consent?

When a person has sex he chooses a partner to have sex. Sex can be indulged into by wooing a girl (Consensual Sex) or by buying sex (prostitution) or by forcing sex (Rape). For first two all you can say or hold is a belief which is called as moral or immoral. If you hold a belief that it is wrong to have sex with more than one person throughout your life, that is your moral. Some people hold belief that it is not wrong to have sex with more than one person… At the most you can call them immoral not criminals… Some hold belief (legalized) that it’s ok to have more than one wife… This belief from my extreme point of view is noting but legalized prostitution in house hold… But at the most this legalized system can be termed as immoral.

In case of rape, you force someone to do something he doesn’t want to; against wishes; therefore it is crime.

3) In your present frame of mind you are unable to distinguish between what is right and what is not .

That is a conclusion which is yours own.

4) Don’t mind it, but truth is that ancient indians called this mentality the Shudra mentality.

I do not revel in irrelevant things from past

5) One day perhaps you may look back and recognize this for what it is.

I am always ready for change for good

***

Comment by Rohit:

TO Incognito:

You haven’t heard of trafficking? Why don’t you go out to the red light areas and interview a new comer, not an old hand, whether she came to make money or whether she was forced into it?

I said legalization of Prostitution not legalization of forcing people into prostitution which is akin to slavery

***

Comment by Rohit:

because prostition is there. illegal, yet ‘there’. because the government and its police does not uphold what is right by its own law. It is when the government loses sight of what is right that citizens too become unable to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong, and proposes legalisation of wrong to make it right, as you have done.
The state of mind that causes this state of affairs is called Delusion.
Wrong does not become Right by calling it so.
ANSWER
Existence of prostitution is agreed to by society in general. Some want it to be legalized, some remain mute spectators, some oppose (verbal gestures) but do nothing for prostitutes. Even if prostitution is banned (An Utopia), sexual desires of a person cannot be suppressed and person will have sex which may not be only and with the only person he marries.
COMMENT
Just before that you said - “ladies who chose dance bar over prostitution say they will have to go into prostitution if dance bar is not there.”
If these ‘ladies’ made so much money in dance bars that they could easily run some other business, you are contradicting your earlier statement. Are you not ?
Try to comprehend that this is the indication of a mind that is deluded.
ANSWER
I do not think that you read the comments of a lady in Hindu who was explaining why she wants this business to run… Read the entire article. But yes the business had good money in it. Refer http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/489327.cms

>>> Didn’t the girls themselves came out and participate in demonstrations against closing of dance bars?
COMMENT
If you keep believing everything newspapers and TV channels feed you, it is no wonder that you lose your sense of right and wrong.
A prescription- less of TV, less of mainstream newspapers, bit more of personal experience and mediums like internet.
Later perhaps, hard introspection.
Besides that, such instances of women protesting for occupation in dance bars shows how they have become accustomed to that life. It is much like the case of the house negro. Can you understand this ?
Try to understand this point.
ANSWER
I do not believe everything that TV or Newspaper feeds me… I do blogging more than you do… And I have visited Gentlemen’s Club if you talk about personal experience. Rest… No comments except that it applies to you in reverse especially the last one

The rest don’t really take the discussion forward… So No Comments

***

Comment by Incognito:

35-37 >>>You didn’t provide any proof to contradict but simply a statement. Tell me what date prostitution first descended on earth?

You make a fabricated statement and then ask others to provide proof that it is not fact!

Not surprising; remember, the Sudra mind. This is what it is.

>> There is a difference between having a sex with someone with consent

You are making a supposition that prostitutes become so by consent.

In your present state of mind you are unable to understand the value of a life of dignity and respect that most people prefer.

You do not recognise the degradation of having to sell one’s body and thereby, one’s self.

>>> Existence of prostitution is agreed to by society in general.

It is your ‘valueless’ mind that has compromised your ‘principles’.

>>> Even if prostitution is banned (An Utopia), sexual desires of a person cannot be suppressed and person will have sex which may not be only and with the only person he marries.

It is your ‘valueless’ mind that refuses to see a person as capable of having values in life, of purpose in life higher than acquiescing to physical desires.

You, in your valueless state deny the existence of values and people who lead a life of values.

>>> I do blogging more than you do…

Internet was not suggested for blogging alone.
Besides, if this is the kind of blogging you do, it is no wonder that you hold the views that you do.

>>> And I have visited Gentlemen’s Club if you talk about personal experience.

Maybe that kind of ‘experience’ is all that you could think of, however, that was not what was meant. What was meant was that you open your eyes and gain experience and wisdom from what you encounter around you, rather than by blindly following the TV channels and newspapers.

Maybe, in your current state you are unable to understand it and implement it.
Not unexpected.

****

Comment by Rohit:

You make a fabricated statement and then ask others to provide proof that it is not fact! Not surprising; remember, the Sudra mind. This is what it is.

ANSWER
You make me laugh… Every language has a word for Prostitution that may solve your mystery… Read something here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution

Rest… No comments.

***

Comment by Patriot

Question of the curious cat:

Why is it okay to sell your labour and your brains, but not okay to sell your sex - what is so special about sex? (Besides the obvious, I mean!)

(I know what happened to the afforementioned cat, but still! )

***

Please share your own thoughts/ideas below, via the comments section. Please remember if you do not fill in your email address, the comment is likely to get stuck in the spam queue. If you are worried about sharing your email address, please use this email address instead: satyacomment AT gmail.com

I am tied up this weekend with a large backlog of emails and personal work but will share my views on this topic later on. Thanks.

Additional Reading (I must confess I have not read through all of these links myself; so these are also reminders to myself):

The problem of “Prostitution” - An Indian Perspective

A ToI Op-Ed on Sex Workers Need Legal Cover

Somewhat related: Homosexuality, Hinduism and Section 377

Past polls:

Who is likely to be India’s next Prime Minister? - Cast your vote

What is stopping you from joining active politics?

Should there be certain “selection criteria” for MPs?

What should be India’s top developmental priority?

Do we need to re-examine our “population policy”?

Post from: || Satyameva Jayate ||

Thanks.

UPDATE: Am reproducing the last four comments from the earlier post below for the sake of continuity.

Comment by Tarique:

patriot , why r u taking the qasab confession in nair hospital in mumbai very seriously and citing the public prosecutors argument in court . r u aware that a confession given to police is not admissible in a court of law ? let me give u a similiar example of saqiq shaikh picked up from the trombay muslim area of cheetah camp near chembur .the crime branch arrested him and took his ‘on camera’ confession . he confessed on camera and it was relayed all over the media that he belonged to deccan mujahideen and he personally placed the bombs in ahmedabad , jaipur , mumbai , delhi and american centre attack in calcutta . when the camera confession evidence was placed in a courtroom , the mumbai ATS came to his rescue . the mumbai ATS successfully proved it in court that sadiq shaikh was tortured and beaten up in the lock up by crime branch officers …..that out of fear of beating he confessed to the 2006 mumbai train bombings and other attacks . the judge accepted the argument and freed sadiq shaikh leaving the mumbai crime branch red faced . today sadiq shaikh is a free man .

arif qasmani has been described as a rich millionaire businessman from karachi . what was arif qasmani’s business ? what was he dealing in ? what was he buying and selling ? any proper answers that can help solve the jigsaw puzzle of 26/11 attacks ? why was dawood henchman mohammed ali ,the undisputed king of the mumbai docks ,left untouched by the investigating agencies ? why was mohammed ali allowed to contest lok sabha polls on a BSP ticket from south mumbai seat ?

***

Comment by Patriot:

@ tarique -

i do give a lot of importance to the nair hospital testimony, as kasab gave it freely and proudly. It is up to his lawyer to prevent it from being sworn into evidence. So far the prosecutor has said that it will be introduced.

and, as far as the rest of ur crack conspiracy theories go - please take it to other sites where these are welcomed. I am sure the jews are quaking in their boots knowing that tarique is getting ready to expose them.

as far as ali is concerned, why don’t u ask the bsp that question? And, if u have evidence of wrong doing, take it to the courts - they will give u a patient hearing, i am sure.

and, pls don’t waste any more bandwidth on the conspiracy theories. I have heard them all including the one where the western powers faled the holocaust to take away muslim land.

***

Comment by Tarique:

i do not give a lot of importance to the public prosecutor ujjawal nikam or the defense lawyer abbas kazmi or the judge m.l. tahilyani . all of them are nothing but courtroom ‘fixers’.the entire 26/11 trial is a big ‘farce’ and centres only around ajmal qasab. the real conspiracy that took place in taj ,oberoi and nariman house is being kept hidden by these law enforcers . ujjawal nikam wastes an entire days courtroom proceedings arguing whether qasab should be allowed to read books in jail or not .are we indian taxpayers spending lakhs on nikam’s security to argue about qasab’s reading hobby ? nikam is arguing the case on the lines that taj hotel was attacked to liberate kashmir from india…….do u believe his theory ?

***

Related Posts:

Terrorist Attack in Mumbai - Part II

Jihadi attack in Mumbai? - UPDATED

Post from: || Satyameva Jayate ||

Important Note: I have not yet read the book. This is not a sales pitch for Sh Talageri’s work but more a note to myself for my personal reference.

***

“The Rigveda and the Avesta: The Final Evidence“

The single most significant unresolved problem in the study of World History today is the problem of the geographical location of the Original Homeland of the Indo-European family of languages. This is because this is the most important family of languages in the world in terms of the number of primary as well as secondary speakers, as also in terms of geographical spread, ethnic diversity, and political and economic clout.

This family of languages has twelve branches (two of them, Anatolian and Tocharian, now long extinct): the extant branches, from west to east, are Germanic, Celtic, Italic, Baltic, Slavic, Albanian, Greek, Armenian, Iranian, and Indo-Aryan.

The question of where exactly the original homeland of this diverse family was located has been a hotly debated issue among linguists, historians and archaeologists, and, especially in India, where the issue has acquired deep political overtones, also among politically inclined writers of every brand.

.

In his two earlier books, *The Aryan Invasion Theory: A Reappraisal* (1993) and *The Rigveda: A Historical Analysis* (2000), the author of this book put forward the hypothesis, backed by detailed arguments, data and evidence, that this Original Homeland lay in the northern parts of India, and that the other branches of Indo-European languages spread out from India to their respective historical habitats.

In this book, he presents the final case with conclusive new evidence based on an unassailable interpretation of old but hitherto universally misinterpreted data. The result is a hypothesis
which critics will find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to counter and disprove.

*The two highlights of this book are as follows.*

*One,* the establishment of the Relative Chronology of the Rigveda vis-à-vis the Avesta and the Mitanni inscriptions, and of the Geography of the Rigveda; followed by a detailed analysis of the Internal Chronology of the (different parts of) the Rigveda; and, finally, the first steps in the establishment of the Absolute Chronology of the Rigveda in terms of the
actual point of time BCE when the hymns of the text were composed.

And,* two,* *the presentation of a linguistic hypothesis which shows finally and conclusively that the Indian Homeland hypothesis is the only hypothesis which explains all the linguistic problems which arise in the course of the quest for the Original Homeland.*

All this has important and far-reaching implications, not only in resolving the academic question of the location of the Indo-European Homeland, and not only in resolving the question of the linguistic identity of the Harappan or Indus or Sindhu-Sarasvati Civilization, but also in taking the beginnings of the history of Indian Civilization as we know it (as distinct from its
prehistory, which is what the Harappan civilization amounts to in current historical discourse) back by several thousands of years:

While the beginnings of the history of the Egyptian and the Mesopotamian Civilizations are known to lie at least as far back as the fourth millennium BCE on the basis of detailed decipherable and deciphered records (inscriptions, scrolls, etc.), the beginnings of Indian Civilization as we know it could not really be traced far earlier than the mid-second
millennium BCE, and even this only on the basis of back-tracking the stages of Vedic history (whether logically or illogically done) from the oldest known decipherable and deciphered records found in India: the Ashokan inscriptions of the latter half of the first millennium BCE.*

The earlier records, of the Harappan Civilization, are not yet convincingly deciphered; and the interpretation of the signs on the Harappan seals (from the question of the identity of the language represented in those seals down to the question of whether or not, indeed, any language is represented at all in them) has been a matter of motivated debate: the academic scholars presume the language of the Harappan Civilization to be non-Indo-European, since the current academically accepted theory requires that the Indo-European “Indo-Aryans” could not have “entered” India far earlier than the latter half of the second millennium BCE.

However, ironically, decipherable and deciphered records are found in West Asia (Iraq, Syria, and even Palestine and Egypt), dating to the mid-second millennium BCE, which record the presence of “Indo-Aryan” speakers in West Asia at around the same time as they are supposed to have been entering into India.

The presence of these “Indo-Aryans”, the Mittani “Indo-Aryans”, in West Asia has hitherto been interpreted as evidence of an “Indo-Aryan” group which broke away from the main body of “Indo-Aryans” somewhere in Central Asia, and moved westwards to appear in West Asia at around the same time as the main body of “Indo-Aryans” appeared in northwestern India.

But the analysis of the Rigvedic, Avestan and Mittani data in this book completely overturns this theory: it presents an unassailable case showing that the culture common to the Rigveda, the Avesta and the Mitanni records is a culture which developed in northern India in the Late Rigvedic Period, and that this Late Rigvedic Period followed earlier periods (the Middle Rigvedic Period, and, before that, the Early Rigvedic Period) which have different cultures and which preceded this common culture; and that not only the “Indo-Aryans”, but also the proto-Iranians, in those earlier pre-Avestan and pre-Mittani periods, were inhabitants of areas deeper within northern India and had only started expanding westwards towards the end of the Early Rigvedic Period.

All this places the “Indo-Aryans” and the proto-Iranians deep within northern India at least as early as the early third or late fourth millennia BCE, with no connections further west. This lends legitimacy to an interpretation of Indian history with indigenous origins going back deep into the fourth millennium BCE, and brings Indian traditional Indian historical traditions (excluding, of course, all the mythical elements, exaggerations and interpolations which have seeped into them) as well as the Harappan civilization within the ambits of the academic study of the history of Indian Civilization as we know it.

*To order:*

*– New Delhi, **Aditya Prak., 2008, xxxviii,379p., bibl., ind., 23cm.
ISBN 9788177420852 Rs.750 (hb), Rs. 350(pb)*

Add postage Rs. 25.00

Payment should be made through Demand drafts or cheques payable at Delhi in favor of *Aditya Prakashan, New Delhi.*

*Or you could deposit at any Bank of India branch for “Aditya Prakashan”, BOI, Ansari Road Branch, New Delhi, c. a/c C603220100012624*

*Aditya Prakashan*
*2/18 Ansari Road,*
*New Delhi-110002*

www.adityaprakashan.com

*** End ***

Related Posts:

Breaking the code: the Sarasvati-Sindhu Script

The Aryan-Dravidian Controversy

Revising the “Aryan Invasion of India” Theory

Placeholder for Saraswati-Sindhu script

Post from: || Satyameva Jayate ||

This interesting reference to rAma setu comes from one of those trifling and forgotten episodes, which although insignificant in detail, change the course of history.

One dark night a contingent of armed men, under a crimson flag decorated with golden garuDa, the royal insignia of mAlava country, was swiftly riding on the wild banks of vetrAvatI (betavA) along with a prisoner and an execution-warrant.

Despite being a mighty ruler of mAlava, with boundaries stretching between chambal in north to godAvarI in south, paramAra mu~njadeva was living with a sense of insecurity from a young prince, a nephew of his own and hardly a teenager. This prince, bhoja his name, was quickly gaining many admirers among paNDita-s and Generals alike. Despite being inflicted with a terrible brain tumor, he was proving himself to be a rare talent of both shastra and shAstra, hard to say which his better forte was. All the influentials of the kingdom were foreseeing the promise of the chakravartin-crown kissing his brows. Envy and alarm having taken possession of the king’s better judgment, he at last decided to liquidate this potential danger to his throne, and ordered his trusted guards for a secret execution, for which the prince was now stealthily being taken into the woods on the banks of betavA in thick of that night.

.

The young victim of royal envy was composed to bravely meet his end, and after his prayers to vAgdevI and mahAkAla of ujjayinI, the youth had only one last wish. Once the executioners return back to the capital, they should pass on a message to his king-uncle, which he scribbled upon a cloth in form of a chhanda, his last, and apocryphally, in his own blood:

mAndhAtA sa mahIpatiH kR^ita-yugAla~NkAra-bhUto gataH
seturyena mahodadhau virachitaH kvAsau dashAsyaAntakaH
anyechApi yudhiShThira prabhR^itayo yAtA divaM bhUpate
naikenApi samaM gatA vasumatI manye tvayA yAsyati

(An emperor like mAndhAtA passed who came to grace satya-yuga. Next yuga saw another great who constructed even a setu over ocean to destroy the ten-headed devil, and he too passed. Yet in the next age came yudhiShThira of mighty fame. While all those great monarchs departed in their respective eras, the earth did not accompany any of them. It seems likely O Emperor that she might finally go with you when your own time comes.)

Having scribbled these last lines of his life, bhoja was now ready to meet his death.

But little did he know that destiny had other plans for him.

Seeing an unnecessary and wasteful end to such a talented prince, a ray of mercy arose in the heart of the commanding officer. At his risk, and in his hope against hope, he decided to put off the execution by a day and leaving bhoja in custody of his men, he rushed to the capital and delivered the message to the King. The King, reading the lines, was so moved that all his envy was washed away now by guilt. When the commander informed him that prince was still safe, he was overjoyed and not only did he himself bring bhoja back, but also declared him the heir in preference over his own sons.

And indeed it would seem destiny had other utility of bhoja when it inspired him to scribble that chhanda on the banks of betavA that night and saved his life. For, it was then that hundreds of miles away on the shores of the Oxus and Syr-Dariya, barbaric hordes of turuShka-s and Usbecs, having recently equipped themselves with the zeal of Islam, were gathering storm to pour down upon the Hindus, for the first time inside India-proper to the east of Indus.

It was bhoja, who had now become the mighty ruler of mAlava when the savage marauders from west and now followers of Quran, marching under the banner of mahamuda of gazna, invaded gujarAta which was on bhoja’s south-western neighborhood and ruled by an enemy prince. When bhoja heard of the sack and desecration of somanAtha, even in the domain of his enemy, he immediately marched with his army and that of his neighbours to punish Mahmud. And chroniclers, both Hindu and Muslim, record that bhoja meted out such harsh retaliation on the returning army of turuShka-s and Usbecs, marching in pursuit of Mahmud all the way upto Indus, destroying entire Muslim enemy that was met on the way and crushing invaders so completely, that never again in his life Mahmud dared to set his eyes to the east of Indus. The complete annihilation befell the branch of forces of Quran that had wandered northwards beyond the banks of Ganga, and this ensured that India was safe from Islamic invasions for almost 150 years to come. No wonder bhaviShya purANa remembers bhoja as the slayer of muhammad, and alludes to prophet appearing to bhoja in dream and giving him his confessions of creating a corrupt dharma.

And that chhanda which bhoja wrote that night mentioning rAma setu, was not to be his last after all. During the long fifty-five years of his reign, despite being always on the battlefield he did compose numerous works varying greatly in nature, spanning across the subjects of philosophy to politics, poetry to civil architecture, and much more.

The basic story as well as the said chhanda is recored by biographer merutu~Nga in his prabandha-chintAmaNi*

*** End ***

Grateful Acknowledgment: The article first appeared on Sarvesh’s blog, last last year.

elated Posts: A handful of gAzIs and lessons from History

An 1100 years-old Constitution

On Aurangzeb, Kashi Vishwanath, Lies and Half-Truths

Distorting history…and getting paid for it

Forgetting History: Delhi’s “Iron Pillar”

and the whole category of posts on Medieval Indian History.

Also read: Raja Bhoja (short biography)

* prabandha-chintAmaNi of jaina AchArya merutu~Nga has been translated in English by C. H. Tawney and published by Royal Asiatic Society of Calcutta (1899 & 1901) under the title “The Prabandhacintamani or Wishingstone of Narratives”.

Post from: || Satyameva Jayate ||

8th July: Have been sleeping an average of 5.5 hrs a day for the last 8 days. Am completely exhausted and drained…but feeling very positive and hopeful - more than ever before that change can happen

7th July: The last few days feel like an incessant series of phone calls/ meetings/ discussions; I have found myself talking for 14-16 hours every day; Throat finally succumbed on 7th July afternoon; LK pitched in for part of the interactive session at Vivekananda Institute.

Later in the evening, finally gave in to the temptation of “Chaat” at Vijay Chaat House (Sarafa, Indore); Topped it with “Fresh fruit juice” served in a glass infected with a million microbes…Stomach gave up by 7th July evening.

Highlights of the visit:

• Interaction with 50-odd vilagers in Simrole (a rural area on the outskirts of Indore)
• Presentation to students at IIM-Indore
• An extempore speech in Hindi at Abhyas Mandal, Indore (my Hindi is at its best in the last several years)
• Presentation to employees of Impetus
• Interaction with a small group of very active and extremely well-read politically conscious citizens (Lok Maitri Samooh)
• A private dinner with a select group of 20 very successful professionals, businessmen and businesswomen in Indore
• A presentation to Indore Management Association

Other notable meetings:

• A combined meeting with Young Jains of Indore, Jain Engineers Society & JITO - very interactive
• Discussion with students of Daly College and 3 other schools
• Discussion at Kothari Institute with some bright and energetic students from Indore and nearby towns

Total time spent online in the last 7 days: 3 hours.

Surprise of the week: The sarpanch of Simrole Panchayat concluding his speech with my tag line: Jai Hind, Jai Bharat!

Best Vote of Thanks: Dushyant Kumar’s unforgettable line:

कौन कहता है आसमान में सुराख़ नहीं हो सकता, एक पत्थर तो तबियत से उछालो यारों

Kaun kehta hai Aasman mein surakh nahin ho sakta, Ek paththar to Tabiyat se uchchalo Yaaron …

Rough translation: Who says you can’t make a hole in the sky, how about hurling a stone at it with conviction?

Saddest Sight of the last 8 days: A young girl of 8 or 9 yrs of age, selling balloons at a traffic crossing in Delhi; Time: Midnight.

Most Inspiring Meeting of the last 8 days: A brief meeting with a young physically handicapped school teacher who commutes 40kms on his mobike each day to teach children at the government school in Simrole village (He does not have to. The government in MP offers physically handicapped teachers a choice of schools in any city/town they wish). There is hope.

Related Posts:

Quick notes from Indore

Changing India - Step III

Post from: || Satyameva Jayate ||