Peachtree Hoops

The (Non-ATL) Future of Joe Johnson

2010-03-10T17:34:00Z

It has become clear that Joe Johnson and the Hawks should not grow older together.

Clarity is a magnificent comfort. Right or wrong, clarity about a situation is its own marvelous drug, able to mask tension and doubt in even the most confusing of circumstances.

Over the course of the summer and now almost a full season of basketball, there has been a long should they/shouldn't they discussion around the future status of Joe Johnson.

Do they retain the 4-time Atlanta Hawks all-star to hold onto the core roster that has improved every season since 2004? Or do the Hawks investigate life after Joe Johnson, using his free agency as either a financial catharsis or to acquire new talent.

Either way, though it was murky last offseason, it's has been made clear to us now.

It's time to let Joe go.

We admit, it's hardly the original thought. BlogABull wrote the ultimate thesis on this a month ago, ably breaking down the break down of players at the age and mileage of players similar to Joe.

Players like Michael Finley and Jerry Stackhouse, who once effortlessly played 38+ mpg, broke down hard by age 31. Several players in the 18 PER crowd saw their PER nosedive by age 31 (Michael Finley, Rip Hamilton, Steve Smith, Jim Paxson, Alvin Robertson). In fact, nobody with a PER below 19 from age 26-28 ended up with a 29-33 Score over max level. (Btw, since Finley keeps coming up in comparisons, I decided to look them up side by side. Really similar. You don't want to click Finley's player card to see his stats after age 30.) I'd say JJ's chances aren't good.

Next, Kevin Pelton also posited that a max deal for Johnson, as he is said to want, could be poison.

There are a couple of factors at play here. First, Johnson's statistics have never matched his reputation. Second, players of Johnson's ilk--above-average starting wings--have tended to decline in a hurry in their early 30s. By year three, just two of Johnson's top 10 comparables (Steve Smith and Jalen Rose) were offering their team any kind of value. A max deal for Johnson could end up very ugly.

One of the things we most appreciated about former Hawks GM Billy Knight was that he was risk averse when it came to tying the company down with long contracts for max dollars. He lowballed Kenyon Martin and Erick Dampier and we are thankful that he did.

Now, Rick Sund has the issue of an ever improving franchise, rising to new levels of relevance and record, and the decision of whether or not to retain the services of the player who has been at the center of its rise.

We already got an inkling for Sund's intentions as he attempted to extend Johnson's contract in this past offseason to the tune of an incredible 4 years, and 65 million. That Johnson turned that down indicated not so much that he didn't want to continue in Atlanta, but that there might be more gold in them thar free agency hills.

He might be right, but the Hawks should breathe a sigh of relief, even before considering that the economic scope of the NBA could change severely in the next few seasons, that Johnson passed on a contact that could have financially hampered the franchise.

We believe there are three things that Johnson wants most: Winning, Money, and Usage.

Johnson has gone on record as saying he doesn't want to rebuild again, which makes some high-cap destinations unlikely, but rebuilding is only as painful as the lack of talent around you. If Johnson were to head to, say the Knicks, and they brought in another top level talent, and there was a max contract and plenty of shots available, we don't think there would be any trouble seeing Joe go to the Big Apple, for one example.

And neither should the Hawks, as two of the three things Joe wants the Hawks shouldn't be eager to give him.

First, there's the money. There is an economic thunderclap a-brewin' and the Hawks can ill afford to give a cap-breaking contract to a player that will spend the majority of it (at best) in major decline. They have younger players to lock up (Al Horford being the biggest) and might still need to address the point guard position should Jeff Teague not be starting caliber.

Like most franchises, the Hawks are just not financially able to carry a thirtysomething year old former all-star to retain some continuity for a season or two and then have to eat the rest of the contact.

In the short-term on the court, the Hawks already have a capable replacement in Jamal Crawford for one more season if Joe does go. Crawford has not proven to be as efficient scoring the ball and certainly not defensively, but the Joe Johnson of the next six seasons would not be either. The Hawks cannot pay max contract terms (or even close to it) for production that has already happened and most likely will not happen again. There may be a dip in total wins initially, but it doesn't make them a lottery team if Johnson moves on---and the Hawks would have the future flexibility to address shooting guard needs through free agency, trade, or in the draft.

We also believe that the Hawks can't afford to give Johnson the Usage he's accustomed to either. Since Johnson arrived in 2005 and began to stabilize the team, the talent level has improved around him and is ready/capable to provide more value. Josh Smith and Al Horford have already proven this on the court, to the point where the franchise's old habits of giving the ball to Johnson and getting out of his way has become a very unpopular notion among ardent Bird Watchers.

The Hawks future (and we say current) success relies not on the shoulders of their 4-time all star, but on their productive, efficient frontcourt. To max down on Johnson would be to neglect/ignore that Smith/Horford will have more to do with the Hawks success in coming seasons than Johnson. To us, this becomes more true every single game and will be even more apparent as time goes on.

And so as the team leverages their frontcourt more to their own success, why then does it make sense to max out Johnson? They would make better use of that money acquiring talent that will augment Smith/Horford and take advantage of their primes, not a max compensation player who will be in decline or tapped out by the time they reach their apex.

All Hawks fans have a deep appreciation for what Johnson has given to this franchise. He took the tough shots, played on both ends of the floor, and provided a steadying calm as the team improved from (13) wins to last year's (47) and their current (52) win pace. He is in the second tier of Atlanta Hawks greats, with Dan Roundfield, Mookie Blaylock, and such--no small company.

But that doesn't mean the franchise or its fans should get excited or get behind even the four year deal offered to Johnson over last summer, much less a longer deal this offseason.

Have a parade, throw him roses, give him a fond farewell. Put his image on the massive Hawks All-Star Banner that adorns the practice court floor. Do whatever needs to be done to recognize Joe's contributions as a Hawk--as long as it doesn't involve a new long term deal.

To us, now, that much is clear.

THHB's Top 10 Hawks of the Decade: Number Two

2010-03-09T22:07:21Z

More photos » Tim Sharp - AP

Joe Johnson, showing his unbridled enthusiasm for being recognized as the #2 Hawk of the Decade.

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Where are the other Hawks of the Decade posts? Why, they are right here:

A Decade of Hawks Aughts (and Aught-Nots),

Top Hawks by Statistical Category

THHB's Top 10 (and more) Hawks of the Decade, #10, #9, #8, #7, #6, #5, #4, #3

Our Number Two Hawk of the Decade has stirred a controversy or two--which is in total contrast to his own personality on the court and in the public eye.

Still, he was instrumental in righting the franchise and being a rock around which a playoff team emerged.

The #2 Hawk of the Decade is:

Joe Johnson

Let's get right to the statistical reasons Joe is here:

2nd in PER: 18.3

T-2nd in Assist Rate: 25.2

T-1st Assists per game: 5.5

1st Points Per Game: 21.2

1st in Total Points, Field Goals, and Minutes

4 consecutive All-Star Appearances

Johnson came to the Hawks in a controversial trade that deigned to send Boris Diaw and (2) #1 picks to Phoenix in a 5 year, 67.4 million dollar sign and trade deal. But it wasn't just the decision of then Hawks GM Billy Knight to make. He had to clear it with the Atlanta Spirit owners who, to that point, had some contention in the past about certain deal, but had always been able to steer around the inner conflicts and make things happen.

This time Hawks NBA Governor Steve Belkin balked at the high cost of acquisition and intended to veto the deal until the rest of the group objected and tossed the whole kit and caboodle into what has become the Gilligan's Island of ownership disputes.

Meanwhile, on the court, Johnson turned out to be most of what Knight intended when he brought the emerging shooting guard on in 2005-2006. What he didn't turn out to be was some kind of proxy point guard, which may or may not have given Knight the comfort of not drafting a PG in the previous draft (Paul v. Williams).

Since the Hawks were coming off a historically bad (13) win season, one might wonder why a young player of Johnson's considerable talent would push (and he did push to leave PHX) to go to such a struggling team?

Johnson was able to become "the man" for the Hawks where he certainly would not have been in the more talent dispersed Suns franchise. For the decade, Joe led the Hawks in Usage Rate with 26.1 (he had 19.0 his last season in PHX), including a career high 28.3 rate in his second season as a Hawk.

It is from this lineage and gift of time and possessions, as well as the lack of alternatives, that Joe was the player the Hawks looked to in the fourth quarter of close games. Johnson became so adept at taking and making these clutch shots that THHB began to label his late game heroics as his "killer sauce."

His defining moments as a Hawk have come as he helped the team into their first postseasons of the 21st century, with his NBA Moment against the Celtics and his Game 7 bombing raid against Miami.

But a funny thing happened on the way to Hawk infamy---the roster, his teammates, got better, so the habits that Joe and Mike Woodson had cultivated late in games became less heroic now that it wasn't necessary to dedicate the entire offense to Johnson. Such sentiment began to permeate the people's opinion of the entire game and thus the term Iso-Joe was born.

Now, as we end the decade, Johnson's infamous contract comes to an end. This past offseason, the Hawks attempted to extend the contract of Johnson for another four years for 60 million dollars. Now, with another season of his teammates getting better, including their young front court, the tread on his 40 minute per game tires another year worn, one wonders if this is the end of the Joe Johnson era in Atlanta.

His production, his dependability, and his incredible shot making will never be forgotten by Hawks fans, no matter what happens this summer. He is an all-time Hawk, near the front of the line of the second tier of such greats, and our #2 Hawk of the Decade.

Atlanta Hawks forward Josh Smith said he would help the family of slain high school football star...

2010-03-09T19:05:33Z

Atlanta Hawks forward Josh Smith said he would help the family of slain high school football star Rajaan Bennett with their living expenses for the next six months.

Standing ovation from this side of the computer.

Please give a Zaza Pachulia welcome to the Human Highlight Blog

2010-03-09T16:42:20Z

I started writing about the Atlanta Hawks back in the summer of 2007 because I did not think enough voices were out there talking about the team. I was tired of news consisting solely of jokes about the Philips Arena crowd and jabs over Chris Paul. Outside of some good beat reporting, that was the coverage. And moving back to Atlanta and going to games again, I realized this team was far to nuanced and entertaining to read stock quotes and Marvin Williams bust columns. If no one was going to write about DJ Cowboy or Gorins Beer or Lorenzen Wright, I was going to.

Out of that and through a move to SB Nation, I realized what a wonderful thing interacting with other Hawks fans could be. So wait, you notice Woody takes Horford out after two fouls every time? You laugh at Nique's heat checks? You nicknamed Marvin's mustache too? It made being a Hawks fan better, more entertaining. I became a better fan, a more knowledgeable one. And in some weird way, I felt more connected to the team and the fans. It would be cheesy if it was not true.

As PH has grown, I cared less about how many people were visiting the site and more about how many were commenting. I wanted to foster the best possible Hawks community I could. SB Nation provided a brilliantly designed platform to do that. I never wanted to be a writer (if my grammar did not give it away) or a journalist. I wanted to be a fan. And I realized the best way for this site to be a place where fans can gather is to have as many voices as possible. It is why I love fanposts and comments. It is why I get upset when I miss a gamethread. And it is why I am beyond excited to announce that Jason Walker of the Human Highlight Blog is coming on as a co-manager with me.

If you don't know Jason or his work, he has been writing about the Hawks for years. Way back before any of the current excellent Hawks blogs existed, Jason was in the locker room covering the team for RealGM. He knows the team better than me. He writes with a refreshing, knowledgeable perspective. The guy is the real deal. The best of the best, and now will be running the site right along side me. I could not be more pumped. I hope you are too.

Peachtree Hoops will now have more perspectives, more posts, better game recaps, and venture into interviews, podcasts, and all sorts of good stuff that one guy's hobby just can't get too. It is all an effort to make this blog a better place to talk Hawks. I can think of no one better than Jason to make that happen. So welcome good sir, I speak for everyone to say, thank you for coming on and keeping this from becoming a Zaza fan page.

Go Hawks!

Matching up well is just another word(s) for nothing left to lose, that or bad coaching

2010-03-09T14:55:07Z

More photos » Nathaniel S. Butler - NBAE/Getty Images

This picture makes me feel weird.

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"We should have dominated this series but they match up well and D'Antoni's a great coach."

Josh Smith in the AJC.

It bears repeating, if the Hawks hit the same number of contested and open shots as the Knicks, they win. They didn't. They were not as good at a fundamental part of basketball. I believe most people call it, making baskets. But this quote naturally leaves me again disgusted with what seems to be a lack of any kind of positve impact Mike Woodson has on a game.

I looked at the starting lineup Sergio Rodriguez, Bill Walker, Wilson Chandler, Danilio Gallinari, and David Lee. Those were the starters. Who matches up well against the Hawks? Maybe Sergio against Bibby, but everyone else is at best a draw. Horford usually dominates Lee and played him to a draw last night. Gallinari obviously has a different skill set, but he sure is not better than Josh Smith, and as far as matchups, jump shooting power forwards usually are not the issue. And you don't want me to get to their backups. Eddie House vs. Jamal Crawford. Please. The Hawks don't matchup poorly against the Hawks. D'Antoni just put Bibby on Gallinari, and Woodson let him. That is a bad match up.

Last night was the difference between milking advantages down to the last drop and then cussing the advantage cow for not giving more and sometimes remembering you have them. The Hawks went inside, when they felt like it, and when they felt like it, they ran simple post ups or hand offs and said "ok take advantage." Post players can move, you can set screens for big men, you can drive more than once a possession. The Hawks offense is simplistic. We all know that, but it seems easy enough to do some things that make offense actually easier. Now, not every coach just lets you screen one of the worst defenders on the hottest shooter in the game, but still, how about a back screen by Joe Johnson to free up an easy post up for a big.

On the defensive side of the ball, it is clear, that 82 games was too long to play 4 on 5 defense anytime someone drives the ball. At max effort, the Hawks are pretty darn good on defense, but the max effort is not equally demanded across the starting five, or better put, max effort by some is needed to mask the max effort of others. I don't know any job where that goes over well day in and day out. It is a shame our coach could not figure out a way to lighten the load for Horford and Josh. Instead, he rode the horses for as long as he could. Now that it is obvious the Hawks do not have a plan B, it may be time for the organization to start thinking of one for their coaching job.

New York Knicks 99, Atlanta Hawks 98 or depressing like meth ads

2010-03-09T03:23:00Z

More photos » Bill Kostroun - AP

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Shockingly, the Hawks just got beat. I don't mean that the fact that they lost was shocking. They already lost twice to the Knicks. Losing to New York is like breathing for this team. I mean it is shocking the Hawks just got beat. Period. That "don't try and lay the ball up with a half second to go ever again" block on Josh Smith summed it up. The Knicks were better. All the predictable faults were there for Atlanta, all things we have grown accustom to laundry list after losses, the ball movement, inability to get the ball inside, questionable shot selection, an inability to disguise poor defenders, and of course, the coaching left something to be desired, but in the end, the Knicks beat the Hawks because they were the better team.

That should bring some cold, hard truth to Hawks fans and players. At least truth to how this team is playing right now. If you want to point out Bibby or Jamal's poor night as an excuse, the Knicks missed 9 of 11 shots in the final 5:26 with three turnovers. The Knicks didn't play well at the most important time and the Hawks had nothing. And that my friends, that is the sign of not being a good team. Is it March? Yes. Could things change before the playoffs? Certainly. But the Hawks don't even know how to perform a simple entry pass to the post. (Name the last time Josh, Joe, or Al got the ball in deep.) They have Josh Smith taking six jump shots in a game. Woody take three minutes to adjust to the Knicks playing Al Harrington at center. The team guard four players, at most, every possession. It is ugly. And if the jumpers don't fall, any team in the league can beat them.

Hope is there, but right now figuring out where to grasp on to it sure ain't easy.

Go Hawks!

Preview and Game Thread #63: Atlanta Hawks @ New York Knicks

2010-03-08T22:06:24Z

Atlanta Hawks 09-10 Season Game #63
	@
40-22		21-41
The Mecca
March 8th, 2010, 7:30 PM
Fox SportsSouth, Hawks Radio Network, NBA Audio League Pass
Probable starters:
Mike Bibby	PG	Chris Duhon
Joe Johnson	SG	Tracy McGrady
Marvin Williams	SF	Wilson Chandler
Josh Smith	PF	Danilo Gallinari
Al Horford	C	David Lee

Hawks Injury Report: None.

Knicks Injury Report: Eddy Curry is out. JR Giddens is out. Also of note, who is JR Giddens. Tracy McGrady's demise are great under exaggerated. He may play tonight to prove it. But he may not.

Blogging With the Enemy: One of my favorites. Posting and Toasting.

Predicted bane of the Hawks existence: I don't know. Galinari? Maybe. Eddie House? Why not. Shoot even Duhon has a chance. But definitely not McGrady.

Game Preview

The Hawks have lost four of the last five to the Knicks. How bad is that? The Knicks have lost one of the last one to the Nets in a blowout. That bad.

I mean what can you say about this game? We should win? Yes. Someone on the Knicks will inexplicably go bananas offensively? Of course. Only the Hawks can stop Al Horford from getting 20 and 10? Naturally.

I don't know what else to say. Have I mentioned I love Madison Square Garden? Because I do. Ok seriously, one interesting subplot is the Joe Johnson tryout for second option. Will Joe come out gunning? Are Knicks fans so caught up in summer 2010 that they will cheer their fourth choice to succeed against their own team? Are we all hoping Gus Johnson calls this game? Have there every been so many questions for what should be an obvious win?

But seriously Hawks, end this with eight minutes to go in the third quarter please. My DVR is almost full. Thank you.

Go Hawks!

Stupid little things, final thoughts on Hawks vs. Heat

2010-03-07T20:24:05Z

More photos » Lynne Sladky - AP

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Watching this game on DVR again and specifically the fourth quarter, it is tough to not put this loss on Josh Smith. He turned the ball over. He shot jump shots, and he played truly horrible defense. I say that with a bit of regret. After all, Woodson was asking three perimeters guys to guard people none of them were capable of guarding. And our coach employed the best of three in a way that kept him from defending Wade after just one screen.

So while the Hawks lost mainly because the Heat hit shots, the Hawks missed, a great (and these days normal) Josh Smith performance could have easily led to different results. Josh Smith has begun to make excellence seem routine, and that bring a lot of praise, but it also means average is no longer good enough.

Before detailing Josh's fourth quarter poor performance, we should look at one exception because it goes to show how the small things in basketball actually matter. On that dagger Beasley three pointer (around 2:05 in the video), Carlos Arroyo innocently whiffed at a screen on Horford as his man went to set a screen for Wade. It made Horford jump sideways and Bibby, unwilling to make the extra effort to guard a guy closely who was probably not going to shoot the ball again, jogged after Arroyo. The jogging made Horford momentarily alter his path for a second time, and then he was out of position to cut off Wade's drive. That is all it took. Josh Smith went to help and Joe Johnson could not or was told not to or did not move over to the open shooter. And that was the ball game. Josh literally gave the "I just threw a home-run pitch" face before the shot even left Beasley's hand.

I give Josh a pass on that play even if his body language was deplorable. But every other fourth quarter make by Beasley was because Josh Smith did not try, made a bad decision, or could not/would not get back on defense. Beasley got his first two on a semi-break with Bibby guarding him and Josh not yet over the half court line. He hit a wide open curl without a single screen being set to free him, and finally Josh turned the ball over and Beasley sprinted the court for an alley-oop because Josh failed to mark him down the court.

It is tough to fault a guy for other people's weaknesses, but Josh has the skill and motor to make up for a lot of them. And a lack of effort is never acceptable. It is easier to get mad at an "A" student for making a "C" than a "C" student earning the same grade. Still, if you just want to blame Woody, I will accept any and all arguments.

Brief Loser Dots

Isolations and ball hogging were not the issue for Joe Johnson. Missing open shots was the issue.
Zaza cannot be passed too. It is not worth it. I don't care if he is wide open.
Mike Bibby being the only one fighting for a rebound. Reason #320 why you don't want Josh Smith taking jump shots.
Nique's fourth quarter color commentary was dark horse homer-tastic. Go watch it again. You would think the Hawks were beating the Heat by 20.
Again, Al Horford, six shots.

Go Hawks!

Miami Heat 100, Atlanta Hawks 94 or same old, same bad.

2010-03-07T03:38:59Z

More photos » Lynne Sladky - AP

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And that is why the Hawks don't have long winning streaks.

Two horrible turnovers trying to post up with no ball or player movement. Effortless Josh Smith defense on Michael Beasley in the closing minutes. Only six shots for Al Horford. Joe Johnson volume shooting instead of volume scoring and unable to do anything on defense against Dwyane Wade. Mike Bibby playing crunch time minutes over Marvin Williams and not touching or shooting the ball. At least, we had Joe Smith to make us happy for a while.

The quarter by quarter field goal percentage tonight told the story from shooting almost 60% in the first to under 30 in the fourth. Naturally, opposing defenses are going to clamp down in crunch time, but as simplistic and obvious as Mike Woodson's offense is, it actually works. It really does. With ball movement and unselfishness, the Hawks get easy shots and are good enough to make easy buckets. Somehow Woody does not have the control or the faith to make the team play that way for four quarter. Neither is an attribute that sits well in my household.

More later. Go Hawks!

Preview and Game Thread #62: Atlanta Hawks @ Miami Heat

2010-03-06T22:30:16Z

Atlanta Hawks 09-10 Season Game #62
	@
40-21		31-31
American Airlines Arena
March 6th, 2010, 7:30 PM
SportsSouth, Hawks Radio Network, NBA Audio League Pass
Probable starters:
Mike Bibby	PG	Rafer Alston
Joe Johnson	SG	Dwyane Wade
Marvin Williams	SF	Quentin Richardson
Josh Smith	PF	Michael Beasley
Al Horford	C	Jermaine O'Neal

Hawks Injury Report: None, but long term winning streaks have been on the DL all season.

Heat Injury Report: None

Blogging With the Enemy:

Predicted bane of the Hawks existence: Every time I watch Wade he is the bane of my existence, and really this category has never had anything to do with the Hawks.

Game Preview:

Finishing up the the payback back to back with the Miami Heat, the Hawks have a very real chance to put together a solid win streak. The next four games are against the Knicks, Wizards, Pistons, and Nets. This is the tough game. That is not to say an eight game win streak is in the bag with a win tonight or even that an eight game win streak matters, but the Hawks have had one of the most inconsistent season among consistent teams you will ever see. A streak of consecutive wins would be nice. It would be calming. Especially when the two prolific guard scorers are shooting well.

Of course, most of you are cussing the computer or your phone because I am jinxing this team with all this talk of win streaks. But that is foolish yelling. The Hawks are the team all season that will beat Boston and then lose to Miami by 40 (that is the payback part of this game by the way). I can't jinx a team into something they already are, but it does articulate why a nice streak, even against mediocre to bad teams would soothe so many frayed edges. Not since mid December have the Hawks shown any consistency lasting longer than two or three games. Good or bad. There have been no bandwagon jumpers because the bandwagon changes directions every sixth day.

All that is to say I want to beat the Heat. It would be a nice road win, Wade would lose, and the Heat embarrassed the Hawks at home last time out and then at the peak of humiliation Daequan Cook hit another jumper shot. I see no good coming out of a loss. When that is the case, it is my motto to say "might as well win."

Keys to the game:

Stop Jermaine O'Neal from having his second 2005-esque performance of the season against the Hawks.
With the screen switching, make Wade shoot jump shots and don't foul when he forces the drive.
Dominate the three positions the Hawks have the advantage in and make Wade play defense in the fourth.
Come on 50 point game Jamal.

Go Hawks!

Atlanta Hawks 127, Golden State 122 or Stephen Curry does everything except write the recap.

2010-03-06T18:48:28Z

More photos » Gregory Smith - AP

Actually, this picture kind of says it all. (AP Photo/Gregory Smith)

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It was easy enough to figure the plus/minus numbers for Stephen Curry last night, as he played all 48 minutes, and Golden State lost by 5. You have to tip your cap to his remarkable shooting performance that nearly single-handedly took the Hawks to the wire in a home game. The talk before the game was all about how bad the Warriors play on the road. You could certainly have fooled anyone in the arena last night.

The bigger issue is how the Atlanta Hawks could let a bad team with a rotation devastated by injuries, forced into using just 8 players, could be taken pushed so hard through sheer hustle and pure shooting. Stephen Curry could shake any Atlanta guard any time he felt like it for an open jumper. He abused every man asked to stick on him, all the way down to Mario West, and he found repeated opportunities to pull up and show off that pure shooting stroke of his. This was complicated by the fact that two of the players tasked with guarding him-Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford-both were horrible shooting in the first half. That this was a tie game at the half is a testament to the horrible front-court defense of Golden State.

It's to the Hawks' credit that they're one of the top scoring teams in the paint. And on a night when the primary two perimeter threats were struggling with their shots, it was a nice night for Mike Bibby to decide to swing the Bibby/Teague argument over in favor of Peachtree Hoops. We thank all other applicants for participating, but Mike Bibby clearly showed what he's meant to bring to this team-the ability to knock down open jumpshots at a high rate.

Victory Bullets

Golden State clearly confused Marvin Williams with Mario West. He was never blocked out at all, not even for a second, and nearly reached double digits in offensive rebounds alone.
Speaking of offensive rebounding, think about this. The Hawks missed 39 shots on the evening, and came up with 20 offensive rebounds-a missed free throw attempt that bounced off of a Golden State player out of bounds counts as the 20th, if you're wondering where that came from.
Josh Smith rejects the notion that Curry did everything, as he played over 45 minutes despite fouling out, and made another great push for a 5x5, finishing 2 blocks and 2 steals short.
Think about this-during the 2 minutes and 58 seconds Josh Smith was off the floor, Atlanta was outscored by 7 points. Josh was plus 12 for the night.
Speaking of plus/minus numbers, Teague was minus 10, but that's a true disservice to the quality minutes he played. Part of the issue was being on the floor while Crawford went 0-5 shooting and missed a pair of free throws.
Isn't it getting kind of typical for Crawford to start off 0-6 and then make 5-7 in the second half? No, typical is having missed everything, then throwing up a near circus shot from the corner without looking at the basket and strolling back casually on defense afterward without even watching it.
Al Horford's 15/15 line was the 3rd in 4 games for the Hawks, the other two belonging to the artist formerly known as Josh Smith.

RECAP: Golden State Warriors 122, Atlanta Hawks 127- 100% Scrappy, 0% Crappy

2010-03-06T04:38:34Z

RECAP: Golden State Warriors 122, Atlanta Hawks 127- 100% Scrappy, 0% Crappy

I'm liking what ya'll got going on in the ATL!

(Ed. Note: Have not seen the game yet so a recap might not come, but Golden State of Mind is the best. And seriously how good is Stephen Curry? Not as Good as Josh and Al, but still leaves room for him to be awesome. Kind of wish he was playing in the Southern Conference tourney today.)

Game Thread #61: Golden State Warriors @ Atlanta Hawks

2010-03-05T23:03:17Z

In Charleston being a first time uncle. Sorry for the bad game thread and possibly no recap, but not really. I mean I have a neephew.

Go Hawks!

Atlanta Hawks 112, Philadelphia 76ers 93 or recapping it live

2010-03-04T12:43:06Z

More photos » John Bazemore - AP

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boxscore

recap

Some games deep secondary meaning cannot be extrapolated. What you see is what it is. With the Sixers uninterested in two pretty important aspects of the game (interior defense and rebounding), this was one of those games, and this is what we saw.

Marvin Williams

I am pretty sure Marvin does not know where his feet are at any given moment. -Hawksdawgs

Marvin has been rebounding well lately.- Duff_Man

It's the best way for him to get his hands on the ball. - RamblininAlb

Marvin is either a total spaz or unstoppable body control. There is no in between. - Hawksdawgs

Marvin, beast code activated. - Erihury

Mike Bibby

Was that a Bibby drive? - RamblininAlb

Bibster!- AlejandroG

(less than 10 seconds later) Bibster! After the first quarter baby! - Duff_Man

Josh Smith

noooooooooooooooooooooo - AljeandroG

Use the damn glass Josh. - Hawksdawgs

That pass had a vapor trail. - Duff_Man

I have seen a lot of bad shots, but Josh Smith dribble, stop and pop is up there. - Hawksdawgs

Josh is our best point guard. - RivBoatGambler

Joe Johnson

These Sixers need to get a hand in Joe's face. He does not like these open shots. - Hawksdawgs

Joe has been just absent. Duff_Man No, Joe has been good. - Beard.

How did Joe get 18? I missed that part. - Duff_Man

Mo Evans

What the hell was that Mo?

Mo is having some good garbage time minutes. Make that great garbage time minutes. - RamblininAlb

Zaza Pachulia

Good foul by Zaza. - RivBoatGambler

ENO....by Zaza. - Duff_Man

Zaza using his moves. I didn't know he had any. - Erihury

Shrimp Pimp. - Duff_Man

Bob Rathbun

"The Sixers continue to invent new ways to turn the ball over."

Jeff Teague

LOL moment, Woody showing Teague how to play defense. - Duff_Man

At some point, some one should probably tell Teague that he doesn’t have to foul every time someone ends up behind him. - Acie4MVP

Get it together Teague. Earn those minutes. - RivBoat Gambler

Jamal Crawford (summed up perfectly)

Jamal giveth, Jamal taketh away. - Duff_Man

You were saying? - RamblininAlb

Well...more giveth tonight. - Duff_Man

Mario West

MVP! MVP! MVP! - everyone

So for the second straight game, Mario West had more points than PFs. You can really tell we’ve turned this thing around. - Bronn

Go Hawks!

Preview and Game Thread #60: Philadelphia 76ers @ Atlanta Hawks

2010-03-03T21:46:16Z

Atlanta Hawks 09-10 Season Game # 60
	@
23-37		38-21
Philips Arena
March 3rd, 2010, 7:00 PM EST
SportsSouth, Hawks Radio Network, NBA Audio League Pass
Probable starters:
Jrue Holiday	PG	Mike Bibby
Louis Williams	SG	Joe Johnson
Andre Iguodala	SF	Marvin Williams
Elton Brand	PF	Josh Smith
Samuel Dalembert	C	Al Horford

Hawks Injury Report: None

Sixers Injury Report: Allen Iverson is done for the year. Elton Brand is a game time decision to be a shell of his former self.

Blogging With the Enemy: Liberty Ballers

Predicted bane of the Hawks' existence: Louis Williams in front of the hometown crowd.

Game Preview:

Should win. Need to win. Hawks might do the things we always say they need to do to win. They might not. They will win if they do the former. They might win either way

Non-basic keys to the game:

Whoever Louis Williams guards (Marvin or Joe) needs to get the ball a lot.

Go Hawks!

Mario West is Joe Johnson's shooting coach

2010-03-03T13:37:05Z

More photos » Gregory Smith - AP

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If you go to Hawks games at Philips and get there for the pregame warm-ups (which means I may literally only be talking to the people who read this blog and John Hollinger), you know that Mario West guards Joe Johnson as Joe heaves jumpers from all over the floor. Mario does not shoot. He does not stretch. He does not say hello to the refs or an opposing player. He contests jump shots. Naturally, Joe Johnson would not have it any other way. Contested jumpers are Joe's safe place. "Tough shots" are his wheel house. A hand in his face is his open look. And Mario provides all of this. He guards Joe like he is not trying because it warmups but he is Mario West so of course he is trying. It all leads to Joe Johnson preparing for the game on a diet of contested jumpers. Does anything make more sense than that?

Of course, Mario did not make the team to start the season. He was signed Jan. 10th. Joe had no one with a hand in his face except for the apparently never gets old swat from behind from Mike Bibby (seriously, this always makes NBA players laugh). It was a big deal. He shot open jumpers for the better part of two months. Any other all-star in the league not practicing his go to move? I think not. So I decided to dig deep, check out the stats.See how this late addition to the Hawks roster has affected Joe's shooting.

And it could not be more clear. (Well it could be, these two things could actually be related. That would make it more clear.)

Pre-Mario, Joe Johnson made 291 of 644 shots so shooting 45.1% from the floor.

Post-Mario, Joe has put in 209 of 430 shots for a shooting percentage of 48.6%.

And people say Mario West is a waste of a roster spot.....

Jeff Teague vs. Mike Bibby: Closing Remarks

2010-03-03T01:56:15Z

I don't want to beat a hypothetical debate among friends into the ground so I promise this will be my last post on the subject, but Larry's lengthy response to my first post deserves a response. But you need to read his post because I am only glancingly going to reference it as I address his points.

I am putting the break early in case you would rather discuss screen switching than this little conversation.

Mo Evans is borderline horrible at guarding elite small forwards. So I don't want him starting a game against the LeBrons and Paul Pierces of the world. Marvin does not shut those guys down, but he slows them down, and iIt is much easier to stop PG with help defense than 250 pound wrecking balls.
On Mike Bibby setting up the offense, I can only say this. He is no Steve Nash or Chauncey Billups, and the Hawks offense is not PG heavy by any means, but I have sat very close to the court and watched Mike Bibby bark out orders. He does run things, and running things does not require having the ball in your hands or dishing assists. If I can can give but one semi-related example to how a veteran point guard is important to start a game, early in the first quarter of the Bucks game Joe Johnson sat planted and calling for the ball at the three point line on a semi break, and Bibby waited for Marvin to show open on the baseline. Bibby hit Marvin because it was more important for Marvin to get his shot, see it go in, than it was for Joe. That is a veteran move. If I can give a second example, Jeff Teague has dished zero alley-oops. Which leads too..
Jeff Teague is bad right now. He has played bad. Any stats you use PER, wins shares, plus minus, adjusted plus/minus. They are all bad. We get excited based on the flashes of good, but Jeff Teague has been much, much worse than Mike Bibby. You can blame it on inexperience, but you can't make things up to rationalize why he would be good starting. So again, I say give the guy more minutes, let him grow, but it is just crazy to say give the guy more minutes as the starter. You prove your way into the starting line up. All Jeff Teague has proved is he is faster and more athletic than Bibby which most of us knew the day he was drafted.
Teague has very little confidence out there. He does not know when to try and finish or when to shoot the jumper. Again, experience...yes. Start...why?
The good Jeff Teague might bring to the team, as in, the flashes of great he shows will be just as beneficial from the bench. The things he brings do not help what most of want to see at the start of games which is establishing the front court and good ball movement. Joe Johnson wants to shoot the ball every time down the floor. We might say Mike Bibby does not do a good enough telling Joe not to shoot, but imagine Jeff Teague out there. You can't expect more entry passes into the post with Teague can you? Or Joe kicking it the extra pass because he knows Jeff is waiting to shoot the three? And again, the Hawks are not bad to start games.
We don't know our Mike Bibby ceiling. The Hawks are better than they were last year. And we can only know what we see in the regular season and that is that Hawks can beat or compete with anyone in the league but Orlando. Saying Jeff Teague starting (starting is the argument here, not playing more starting. We are talking about starting? Starting?) is going to help us beat Orlando is dealing in such hypothetical non-proven reality based on zero facts I don't even know how to argue against it.
Finally, even if Jeff Teague gets experience and is really good, the NBA playoffs come around I want our most experienced and still decent playoff performer starting games, not our 22 year old rookie who has sucked in the limited minutes he has received. The playoffs are a different animal. Jeff Teague sometimes does not look ready against the Clippers.
Rafer Alston started for the Orlando Magic in the playoffs last year.
I can say with confidence, Mike Bibby starting, him actually being on the court at the tip, has cost the Hawks zero games this year.

I really like Teague. I like the upside he has displayed. I really want to see him get more minutes, I want him to start next year, but if you base things on history, the recent (Jeff has not been good this year) or the normative (rookie point guards don't take teams far in the playoffs), there is no need to make a change (a change that does not solve the main problem with the team) based on hopes and assumptions. And there ends my closing argument. Cheers to Larry for making an off day entertaining.

Go Hawks!

In the words of Basketbawful, "Sit the hell down, Joe Alexander." (via From the Rumble Seat)

2010-03-02T16:33:55Z

In the words of Basketbawful, "Sit the hell down, Joe Alexander."

(via From the Rumble Seat)

On Bibby and Teague and the starting lineup controversy that is not

2010-03-02T16:20:37Z

More photos » Gregory Smith - AP

4 months ago: Charlotte Bobcats guard Dontell Jefferson, right, forces the ball loose from Atlanta Hawks guard Jeff Teague (0) during a drive in the fourth quarter of an NBA preseason basketball game at Philips Arena, Monday, Oct. 12, 2009, in Atlanta. Teague had 17 points for the night and lead the Hawks to a 107-90 win. (AP Photo/Gregory Smith)

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Larry over at HawksStr8Talk called me out for my absolute anti-stance over the notion of Jeff Teague starting. He demanded a response, and I aim to please. So here are my thoughts on why Mike Bibby should remain the starter. (This of course is a hypothetical argument because Mike Woodson would probably cut off both thumbs before taking Bibby out of the starting five for Teague.)

Mike Bibby sets up the offense

It may not be all clear and easy to see, but Bibby does make sure people are where they are suppose to be on the court. I know this because I watch Teague. Almost once a game, I have seen Horford or Crawford waive Teague in the direction he is suppose to be. He just does not have the offense down pat. In second or third quarter burns, those offensive sets might not be as important. That spacing not quite as relevant. To start the game though, Joe Johnson is going to curl off a screen, both bigs are going to get a few touches down low, and Bibby is going to hit a baseline jumper. Offensive sets are run. And we may not like those sets. We may find them unimaginative, but they are the sets, and Teague has shown little ability to get the Hawks into them.

The offense is not set up for a slashing and dishing point guard. It can work because that kind of offense always works, but to start out the game, Bibby is a better fit to run the actual offense. It is not ignoring the evil that it is Woody's offense, it is dealing with the reality of the situation. You can't just say "it shouldn't be that way" because it is that way. Next year, hopefully a different story.

Change of pace

Used well, Teague can come off the bench and provide a spark. He can push the pace. He can change the tempo. He can get open shots for guys that cannot create as easily as the starters. Mike Bibby can do none of those things. If Bibby is in with say Crawford, Mo, Josh Smith, and Zaza, one of the other four guys is going to have to create for Bibby to be useful on offense. I don't want Zaza or Joe Smith or Mo or really any bench guy but Crawford to go one on one to create their own shot or shots for others. Basically what is the better scenario, watching Mo Evans or Zaza dribble around trying to create separation or have them shoot open looks? With Bibby in, you are going to see Mo and Zaza creating on their own. With Teague in, you are going to see them catch and shoot.

The problem

Mike Bibby is in a shooting slump. It is not like he got old and stopped driving the ball. Well he did, but that was about four years ago. No, Bibby is just not hitting open jumpers as much as he has in the past. It may be partly age, but I think it is more a slump.

On the other side of things, Jeff Teague is a rookie. He has proved nothing. Most of that is Woody's fault, but putting him into the starting lineup at this point is a pretty big unknown. And that is just on the basketball court. Off the court, benching one of your veteran's can have real effects on the team's chemistry on and off the court. Without any real sense of what would happen at all, I would much rather Teague get minutes with the first team in other parts of the game first. So far this season, he has had next to zero.

Finally, in the last five loses, the Hawks have only trailed twice after the first quarter and once by any kind of large figure (10 points against Dallas). Rarely has the first period been an issue. It has been the fourth quarter. Or the third quarter. Or the second quarter.

Risk reward

If you asked 100 people what was a weakness for the Hawks, I think most of those 100 would say Mike Bibby in their top five answers. Yet if you asked the same 100 people how to make the Hawks better, I don't think start Jeff Teague starting would be in their top five answers. The two questions don't dictate correlating answers because Stephen Curry is not sitting on the bench, an unknown is. And for the Hawks, it is known solutions that need to be implemented. More shots for the front court, greater emphasis on rebounding, better ball movement, and more decisive moves into and during isolations.

Jeff Teague might make the Hawks better as a starter, but I can honestly say I have no idea. No one does. Why clamor for a change that is neither proven nor statistically backed up? The perspective is to ignore Jeff Teague's faults as rookie issues and lament over Mike Bibby's faults as unalterable truths. But the fact is, Jeff Teague is not that good yet. He is just not. And one of the reasons the Hawks offense remains in the top ten in efficiency is turnovers. Teague will not help keep Atlanta there. The risk/reward is far too great a gap because, in a best case scenario, Jeff Teague as a rookie is not going to win you multiple more games than Mike Bibby (if we had started Teague would we really be on pace for 60 wins?). Drastic changes to continuity though can lose you multiple games.

The Hawks are a very good team, and at this point in the season, offensive or defensive philosophies are not going to be altered, but subtle changes can occur, should occur. I would love to see Jeff Teague in new and different ways, but putting him into the starting lineup does not stop avoid iso Joe or Jamal, it encourages it. It does not help the Hawks jump shooting, it hurts it.

Next year, with a full summer working with the first team, a year of NBA ball under his belt, and Mike Bibby switching roles and not getting demoted roles, I say yes, give me Teague in the starting lineup. But right now, switching point guard starters is fixing a flat tire while your car is on fire and you have a fire extinguisher in your hand. And all you have is doughnut spare anyway.

Go Hawks!

Atlanta Hawks 116, Chicago Bulls 92 or take that last night.

2010-03-02T04:04:06Z

More photos » Gary Dineen - NBAE/Getty Images

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boxscore

recap

One could say Josh Smith's first quarter won this game for the Hawks. 9 pts, 3 reb, 2 ast, 1 stls, shooting 4 of 5 from the floor. Without a hint of revisionist history, I say with sincerity that I am not sure someone can set the tone for a game better in the league than Josh . The tone does not even need to last four quarter (and it didn't tonight). The permanence does not really matter. Twelve minutes in the Bulls knew Josh Smith could take over the game at any point. The 22 offensive rebounds were just a nice reminder of such throughout.

Mo Evans plays HORSE, wins.

On a night where one can talk about Deng being on the bench, Rose limping around, and the jump shot happy third quarter, I think a better use of our time is to focus on Mo Evans totally awesome shot from behind the basket. When Kobe hits that shot, it led Sportscenter. It should. Kobe Bryant is, shall we say, better than Mo. But the Hawks don't have Kobe Bryant, and they don't have shots like that either. So yes, I made my wife watch that play six times. Yes, I screamed Mo Evans four times. And yes, it made me like Mo Evans more as a person. And since I do not ever see shots like that I don't know if ridiculous statements like "those types of plays can get a guy going" are true or not, so at least for one night, I plan to believe this game just birthed a new Mo Evans.

A bloggers dream

All things considered, second of a back to back, road game, playoff team. You take this win, and I find it all the more gratifying that the ways many of us preach worked and the ways many of us lament did not. It was the antithesis of last night. It seems so easy. Attack the boards, push the pace, pound the paint. Cliches galore, but cliches that work for this team. It is why poor third quarters are so frustrating. No one is asking the Hawks to reinvent the wheel. We just want them to roll the one already invented.

Victory Bullets

Marvin rebounds. Marvin defends. Marvin cuts to the basket. Marvin hits half his jumpers. Marvin is awesome. It all seems so easy.
Following Jeff Teague's one rebound, he pushed the ball as hard as I have seen a Hawks move all season. Naturally, no one was down across half court when he was in layup position.
Mario West's dunk could not have epitomized him any more than it did. Garbage time, trying when no one else is, falling down afterward. Mario being Mario.
Do the Bulls run an offense that tries to limit Derrick Rose's assist totals?
What a weird offensive game for Jamal Crawford. Before looking at the box score, I would have said he didn't score a lot or shoot well but they were loud baskets. Instead, he was 6 for 13 for 21 points. How did that happen? I thought he was like 3 for 15 with all his makes being three pointers. Don't try and figure out Jamal on offense. Just don't do it.
I wish Marvin Williams got a technical every game.
First shots by Mike Bibby. Drilled. And that was that for the night. Goes without saying Bibby is really struggling. The question is not whether he should start or not. He should. Or whether he should get 20 minutes or so. He should. But whether Teague should start to get more burn with the first team this season. Come playoff time, I would love to feel confident putting Teague out there for 15 minutes.
Since this summer, Acie Law and Flip Murray have been on a combined five teams.

Go Hawks!