Q1: How do you find out about new PPC betas and subsequently, how do you go about getting whitelisted?

• I Typically wait for a Clix, Seer or Hero to hint at them then I go ask a rep. – James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Haven’t done many betas in my current job, but in previous would hear from PPCChatters then ask our rep to be added to it. – Melissa Mackey (@Mel66)
• I’ve only found out about them by seeing them in the SERPs and asking a rep. Haven’t been whitelisted though. – Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)
• We have issues & Google brings up a Beta. Most of the time they just share most Betas with us when they launch. – Lance Wilson (@crestonwave)
• I hear them from a PPC Chat and then speak to rep – Additionally, I’ll see ads in the wild. – Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
• Half the time, social media, the other half our team let’s us know. I shoot an email asking to be in it & hope our reps get it done. – Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• I actually found out about Offer Extensions from @fmshovlin blog post at @SEERInteractive - I then emailed my rep! – Matt Umbro
• My Adwords rep is usually good about letting us know of betas. If I hear or see them elsewhere, they will get us whitelisted. – Alma Smith (@Alma_Smith)
• I know the search partner Beta is coming out soon, not sure If we are getting on the boat late for that one. – Lance Wilson
• sometimes I share ideas wit Google reps and sometimes Google reps share their betas with me. – Bart Schuijt (@BartSchuijt)

Q2: How do go about presenting betas to clients?

• I usually test it on a client who gives us the green light before any other clients as to not bog many down with little details. – James Svoboda
• “Hey, this seems like fun and it’ll probably be free for a few months. Wanna try?” “Sure!” – Aaron Levy (@bigalittlea)
• I walk and tell my boss we’re in a beta. He gives me a high five. And that’s the end of it. – Michelle Morgan
• I tell clients why I think a beta(s) is worth testing and for the most part they agree to the test. – Matt Umbro
• Convo goes like this – Me: Beta’s typically prove to give a competitive PPC advantage, and… Client cuts me off: OK, do it. – James Svoboda
• Q2 follow-up, do clients ever give pushback for trying betas? - Matt Umbro
  • Not yet. – James Svoboda
  • No, because I’ll kill the test before it goes south enough for them to push back. – Melissa Mackey
  • Not really pushback, just the occasional “we aren’t prepped on the back end” type of thing. – Aaron Levy

Q3: For those with Google teams or reps, how beneficial and/or prohibitive is your team for trying betas?

• They’re crazy helpful. I don’t know if I’ve actually filled out “paper” work for a beta. I think they’ve always done it. – Michelle Morgan
• I’ve been very impressed with my Google team so far…been able to get our accounts whitelisted for some cool betas. – Matt Umbro
• There are SO many betas out there that some reps just don’t know about them. We have to be proactive to learn about some. – Aaron Levy
• Too be honest, the best part about an agency team is the ability to get whitelisted for betas. – Matt Umbro
• I wish we had an agency rep like the good old days. Some clients have no reps at all. – Melissa Mackey

Q4: Does Google run too many betas at one time? Why or why not?

• I think they have a manageable amount. Most of the time, enough to make everyone happy. You have to chose which is best for you. Which will turn out the biggest benefit if you have it before other people do. Make a decision based on that. – Michelle Morgan
• Probably. I’d like to see them spend resources fine tuning older ones like Site Links instead of launching new ones. – James Svoboda
• Probably. The reps don’t even know everything that’s out there. I do like all of the possibilities, though. – Sean Quadlin (@SeanQuadlin)
• Google may run a few at a time, but I’m glad they take the initiative to keep trying new ideas. – Matt Umbro
• It all depends. I feel that in one month I’ll hear of 2-3 new beta’s and then go a couple months without hearing anything. – Brian Gaspar (@BGaspar)
• Can argue either way. Yes: Even they can’t keep track of em all. No: Always innovate and give us new toys and stuff! – Aaron Levy
• The more testing / Betas the better as far as I’m concerned. – Andrew Baker (@AndrewBaker72)
• You can never explore too much ideas, hence there can be not such a thing as “too much betas”. However, you should consider whether a beta is relevant to a client’s business or not.  – Bart Schuijt
• I will say, the constant betas and updates happening in PPC (for better or worse) do make our jobs very interesting! – Matt Umbro

Q5: Historically, which betas (when they were betas) did you see good results from? Poor results?

• Sitelinks – Francis Shovlin (@fmshovlin)
• Typically good Betas are the same ones that they end up releasing to the public. +Modified +Broad +Match was my favorite. – James Svoboda
• Sitelinks (ugh I’ve been here too long) & call metrics. – Aaron Levy
• Enhanced CPC was really doing well during the beta period. – Bart Schuijt
• With Dynamic Search Ads I’ve seen some good results in terms of additional revenue, however the CPA’s are a bit higher. – Brian Gaspar
• Display Campaign Optimizer is amazeballs. Works really well. There are also two that I’m in right now that are pretty awesome. – Michelle Morgan
• The offers extensions worked well too, but the client is not qualified anymore. – Francis Shovlin
• Another good option are PLA’s. Great way to gain add exposure for existing efforts while determining new areas to expand to. – Brian Gaspar
• Remarketing was a great beta when it first came out. Not a beta, but the new mobile app extension is cool. – Matt Umbro

Q6: If you were a Google AdWords engineer, what beta would you test?

• Multi-Variant Phrase Match. The keyword beta that lets “Chicago Pizza Restaurant” match “Pizza Restaurant Chicago” – James Svoboda
• I’m interested in the breadcrumb trial beta option. – Brian Gaspar
• Conversion Metrics linked to Different Attribution Models. – Andrew Baker
• I’d like to see attribution data in the interface. As much detail as we could get for display + search, etc. – Melissa Mackey
• Maybe campaign-specific conversion codes. – Aaron Levy
• From a 3rd party tech perspective yes. Clients want to use the beta but it’s not on the api. Adwords api betas pls. – Matt Whitehead (@maffyu)
• Also, Event “conversions” in AdWords so we can measure Engagements separate from Conversions. – James Svoboda

Resources

• Google AdWords Editor (version as of today’s PPCChat, still 9.7.1)
• Microsoft adCenter Desktop
• http://www.google.com/ads/answers/
• PPCChat Member List (Twitter)
• adCenter Feature Suggestion
• Bing Keyword Research Tool

More PPC Chats

Don’t forget to stay tuned for the next #PPCchat on Tuesday at 12 noon Eastern, 9 am Pacific and 5pm in the UK. Same Chat time, same Chat channel.

CRO Chat

Join us on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern, 9am Pacific and 5pm in the UK for #CROchat where we talk all about Conversion Rate Optimization.

Participants

Check out the PPC Chat Twitter list to see and connect with all current and prior participants.

• Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
• James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• Aaron Levy (@bigalittlea)
• Alma Smith (@Alma_Smith)
• Andrew Baker (@AndrewBaker72)
• Bart Schuijt (@BartSchuijt)
• Brian Gaspar (@BGaspar)
• Francis Shovlin (@fmshovlin)
• Lance Wilson (@crestonwave)
• Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)
• Matt Whitehead (@maffyu)
• Melissa Mackey (@Mel66)
• Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• Sean Quadlin (@SeanQuadlin)

About the Streamcap Creationist

This is a guest post by Paul Kragthorpe; WebRanking SEM Manager in Minneapolis, Minnesota, #PPCChat Streamcap Grabber, SEO Blog Author. Connect with me @PaulKragthorpe, and Google Plus.

Q1: Now that @adCenter has BMM, what Percentage of Broad, BMM, Phrase and Exact Match Keywords typically make up your Campaigns?

• I would estimate that I typically use 55% Exact Match, 40% BMM, 5% Phrase and 0% Broad. Yep, Zero normal broad match keywords. – James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Evenly split across BMM, phrase, & exact, with a few broad thrown in on brand terms. – Melissa Mackey (@Mel66)
• We typically have an even number of all, except BMM now takes over most (if not all) broad match keywords. – PurePPC.com (@pureppccom)
• Totally depends. Some of my accounts run 1/4 each. Some are heavier on exact and phrase. New accounts are heavier on BMM. – Heather Cooan (@HeatherCooan)
• largely depends on the account – if it’s growth, edges more towards BMM. control, P/E – Aaron Levy (@bigalittlea)
• SQs on broad match brand terms can be enlightening & alert to potential issues as well as drive leads. – Melissa Mackey
• 60% exact 40% BMM. Always end up having more exacts that any other match type. – Jordan Glasner (@glasner)
• It depends on the goals, results, budget of each client, so case by case. But broad is very low and BMM is higher now. – Mark Kennedy (@markkennedysem)
• Usually start off with 25% each (and a healthy negative kw list), then narrow down later. – Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• I have found broad match to be useful in digging up competitors I didn’t realize were there. But watch close! – Heather Cooan
• Q1.1 Follow-up: For those using more Phrase match than me, how does your click/impr split come in vs Exact & BMM? – James Svoboda
  • I’ve seen phrase imp go way down when also using Exact & BMM. – Melissa Mackey
    • Same here. That’s why I use it less. – James Svoboda 
  • Depends what kind of historical KW data I have to start w/. I’ll use BMM mainly as discovery/reach w/ converting Exacts – Andrew Baker (@AndrewBaker72)
• It’s probably 25% BMM, 74% Exact, and 1% Phrase. I think I have 1 or 2 true broad match keywords. – Dennis Petretti (@Denetti)

Q2: Now that @adwords has Near Phrase and Near Exact keyword options, do you intend on using them and why?

• Yes but on a VERY limited basis until I see how they perform. – Melissa Mackey
• Yes where word order matters & want to expand. But mostly, no. – Aaron Levy
• I honestly don’t see a need with all of the other match types available. – Heather Cooan
• Turning off for most, leaving on temporarily for select few based on search volume need. SQ reports will be closely mined. – Mark Kennedy
• Hesitantly will try and use them because there is so much KW variation in our space and we want want MORE volume. – Neil Sorenson (@iNeils)
• Yes – through much testing I imagine I will use them. But NOT by default. – Rick Galan (@RickGalan)
• No. I would if they were a modifier like BMM, but not for a campaign wide setting. You lose too much Exact control. – James Svoboda
• Broadly, I use whatever match type scores the highest Qual. Score. I found the kywds 4 our campiagns that perform the best before all this Match Types discussion got big – Gnosis Media Group (@GnosisArts)
• No, I don’t intend on using them. I don’t use phrase much, and I don’t like near exact. Exact should be just that, exact. – Dennis Petretti
• I’m opting out on all our accounts and setting up several tests to see the results before deciding the best account set-up. – Andrew Baker
• No I immediately turned it off in all my accounts. I want full control, not Google. – Sebastiaan (@SebastiaanHu)

Q3: What Percentage of 1 & 2, 3 & 4 and 5+ word keywords typically make up your Campaigns?

• I use maybe 85% 3 & 4 word keywords, 10-15% 5+ word keywords, and less than 5% of 1 & 2 word keywords. – James Svoboda
• The bulk of my keywords usually lie within the 3 & 4 word length. 1 & 2 – very few, 5+ somewhere inbetween. – PurePPC.com
• I’d say most fall into 3-4, but I’d have to really check to get the actual proportions. – Mark Kennedy
• Good Q, I’ve been messing around w/ a custom report in Analytics to pull this data – not working yet so difficult to say. – Andrew Baker
• Sorry I’m late, gr8 question…while a higher percentage of my KWs are LT, their impressions are shrinking. – Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• I wouldn’t even know – I just use the keywords that convert. Never bothered counting percentages. But if I had to guess, I think the maj would be 3-4 word keywords. Actually, as I look at a campaign now, there were quite a few 2 word PPC conversions – Gnosis
• In older accounts I’d say 80%+ 4-5 and 10% 5+…I run a lot of longtail. – Heather Cooan
• 1: <1% 2: Lots 3: Even more 4: Some 5: few. – Aaron Levy
• 1: 0%, 2: 5%, 3: 60%, 4: 30%, 5+: 5% – Jordan Glasner
• Percentage wise similar to you, but spend/traffic/revenue wise a lot more on the 2-3 word keywords. – Richard Fergie (@RichardFergie)
• It definitely varies by industry. I’ve seen strange trends of only [2-3] word queries vs mostly [4-5] word queries. – Cassie Allinger (@CassieAllinger)
• Depends how you are targeting many converting KWs could be 6/7/8/9 words – only way to target them is BMM, Exact/Phrase = LSV. – Andrew Baker
• Median is 3. Average is probably like 3.5 – Robert Brady (@robert_brady)

Q4: How do you use and mix Broad, Phrase & Exact Match Negative Keywords for your Campaigns?

• I use all three match types for negs based on the SQ report. Some campaign, some adgroup level. Mostly broad, though. – Mark Kennedy
• Usually anything that’s two words goes phrase and anything one word goes broad. I do use a mix when trying to protect adgroups and campaigns from each other though. – Heather Cooan
• I use all 3 match types to box in & box out, esp when I have separate ad groups by match type. – Melissa Mackey
• I’d rather see stricter positive matching, as opposed to relying heavily on negatives to control loose matches. – Chris Kostecki
• Exact and BMM in separate ad groups. Then use negative embedded match to stop BMM ad group from hitting exact match. – Jordan Glasner
• I mostly use Broad with some Phrase for negativing out select queries, and rarely use Exact negatives except for shifting Imps. – James Svoboda
• The majority of the negative keywords, at any level not just campaign, are broad match negatives. – Dennis Petretti
• In generally I use exacted match negatives. But for the more general negatives I use phrase. I don’t use broad. – Sebastiaan
• Broad for growth, MBM for cautious growth, Phrase for controlled expansion, Exact for tight control. Mix based on priorities! – Aaron Levy
  • I always looked at it: BM: Blind Discovery, MBM: Discovery, Phrase: Opportunity, Exact: Qualified. – Chris Kostecki
• A lot of Exact Match Negs at AG level when using match type AGs. – Andrew Baker
• Awhile back I switched to mostly phrase match negative keywords and feel good about it. Still use exact neg KWs, no broad. – Neil Sorenson

Q5: How do you address Geo-Specific Keywords for Non-Geo-Specific campaigns?

• Give them their own camp/adg with custom ads and landing pages. – Michelle Morgan
• Tackling this problem with a client soon, may test location insertion. – Aaron Levy
• For Ecommerce campaigns geo-keywords can tank conversion rates a searchers tend to be looking for local stores. – James Svoboda
• They go into separate adgroups or campaigns and I cross reference negs for control and include the modifier in ad copy. – Heather Cooan
• For Non-Ecommerce campaigns, geo-keywords often have less of a negative impact on conversions and can be acceptable to use. – James Svoboda
• Problems I usually run into A: low search volume, B: too many geo’s to name C: people like to search by zip, not city. – Aaron Levy
  • Interesting. I don’t often see zips showing in search queries… maybe Goog is changing those to cities? – James Svoboda
    • Mostly for hyper specific businesses. Family planning/house cleaning/exterminators/catering/dating. stuff like that! – Aaron Levy
• Also having issues with names that have multiple locations. Oakland NJ vs Oakland CA. Google always assumes you mean the big one. – Mark Kennedy
  • Shut off the "search intent" targeting tool, should solve the problem! – Aaron Levy
    • Did that, tried all 3 settings. Still an issue. Set Google to NJ and search "oakland dui laywer". will see CA ads. The workaround was to just use a NJ & Kw ad, but can’t use oaklyn dui lawyer as KW. Still trying other things, though. – Mark Kennedy
      • Yeahhh I kind of see what you mean. Maybe try MBM-ing it and leave the state abbrev unmodified? – Aaron Levy
  • Start excluding those locations in the location targeting section. – James Svoboda
• Still working on this, geo-specific keywords and negative keywords is going to be one of my summer projects this year. – Dennis Petretti
• For Geo, try to find terms that are relevant to area and have scale (ex., boston for eastern mass, berkshire for western mass). Searchers understand they have to broaden their area for relevant results (we are all victims to Google’s macro approach) – Chris Kostecki
• Having decent luck w/large city names as geo modifiers. – Melissa Mackey

Q6: Beyond Country & State targeting, how do you use Location Targeting & Settings for PPC control? 

• If targeting a specific metro (unique message/event/offer), will negative it out of broader campaigns. – Chris Kostecki
• I’d rather start big and exclude (i.e. target a metro and exclude cities) rather than pick and chose. More volume that way! – Aaron Levy
  • True, but can add work for geo-keyword campaigns like philly dentist when trying to target the burbs also. – James Svoboda
• Use city/metro all the time for local clients. - Melissa Mackey
• Reverse answer: I *don’t* use any setting that determines "search intent". I’ll do that. G has a hard enough time knowing location. – Michelle Morgan
• Now that the new zip code feature is back, I’ve been using that for the SMBs. No qualms so far, but still not 100% accurate. – Mark Kennedy
• I find that using Negative Locations for cities & states can greatly improve control. Example: Portland Oregon & Portland Maine. – James Svoboda
• Also use city/zip targeting to drive foot traffic w/specific message, diff message for broader geos and click to call campaigns work great in local areas when they have a local number. – Melissa Mackey
• For us the main geo-targeting method beyond state is by USDA growing zone. I wish AdWords had a setting for that. - Dennis Petretti
• I like to get granular for local specific ad copy, but struggle with volumes on search. Wrks great for display! – Heather Cooan
• Target for weather, which has to be broken down smaller than state. Especially "good" for major storms. – Jordan Glasner
• Bid by UPS zone for heavy items that require huge shipping costs. – Jordan Glasner
• If you’re in ecomm and ship to "US only", don’t shy away from military bases overseas. USPS ships there and conv rate is HUGE. – Aaron Levy

Q7: How would you change/fix/blow-up Keyword Match Types to address Control and Volume?

• No more smarmy default settings to "improve" our accounts. – Aaron Levy
• I would rebuild Phrase Match as it is useless for longer 4+ word keywords as you need the words to be in an exact in order. – James Svoboda
• A keyword without any punctuation should be exact match. Good for new advertisers, *very* bad for Google. – Jordan Glasner
• I’d love a phrase plus BMM combo keyword. Something like +blue "tennis shoes" – Dennis Petretti
• I’d maked Modified Phrase -> "keyword keyword * keyword" , where the * can be any word. – Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• Keep KW Matches at the KW Level! – Chris Kostecki

Q8: How does Device Targeting (desktop, tablet, mobile) affect your keyword matching and control?

• I tend not to worry as much with Mobile since ppl basically only search what suggest… suggests. – Aaron Levy
• I’ll try shorter 2 + 3 word keywords for mobile campaigns that I wouldn’t normally for desktop. – James Svoboda
• Separate campaigns for every device type, but use same march type strategy. Keyword lengths for mobile are 1-2 words shorter. – Jordan Glasner
• For large volume targets I separate (& see different bidding patterns), also Tablet is truely a 3rd device and not a mobile variant. – Chris Kostecki

Resources

• Google AdWords Editor (version as of today’s PPCChat 9.7.1)
• Microsoft adCenter Desktop
• http://www.google.com/ads/answers/
• PPCChat Member List (Twitter)
• adCenter Feature Suggestion
• Bing Keyword Research Tool
• The Pros and Cons of Google’s New Match Types

More PPC Chats

Don’t forget to stay tuned for the next #PPCchat on Tuesday at 12 noon Eastern, 9 am Pacific and 5pm in the UK. Same Chat time, same Chat channel.

CRO Chat

Join us on Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern, 9am Pacific and 5pm in the UK for #CROchat where we talk all about Conversion Rate Optimization.

Participants

Check out the PPC Chat Twitter list to see and connect with all current and prior participants.

• Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
• James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• Aaron Levy (@bigalittlea)
• Andrew Baker (@AndrewBaker72)
• Cassie Allinger (@CassieAllinger)
• Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• Dennis Petretti (@Denetti)
• Gnosis Media Group (@GnosisArts)
• Heather Cooan (@HeatherCooan)
• Jordan Glasner (@glasner)
• Mark Kennedy (@markkennedysem)
• Melissa Mackey (@Mel66)
• Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• Neil Sorenson (@iNeils)
• PurePPC.com (@pureppccom)
• Richard Fergie (@RichardFergie)
• Rick Galan (@RickGalan)
• Robert Brady (@robert_brady)
• Sebastiaan (@SebastiaanHu)

About the Streamcaptain of PPC

This is a guest post by Paul Kragthorpe; Search Manager for WebRanking, SEO in Minneapolis, MN, #PPCChat Streamcap Grabber, Search Marketing Blog Writer. Connect with me @PaulKragthorpe, and Google Plus.

Q1: What are your hesitations with AdWords near phrase and near exact match types? 

• They apply to every keyword in a campaign. Thus, No Selective Use. – James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Those w/ ad groups dedicated to exact match only will require negative kws added. Big accts will take a lot of time. – Neil Sorenson (@iNeils)
• Agree with James. I was hoping it was a match type instead of a campaign setting. Less control. Seems to be a trend. – Jeremy Brown (@JBGuru)
• If new Near Matching options worked on a keyword by keyword basis like Modified Broad Match, then I’d be using them already. – James Svoboda
• The fact that they explained how phrase and exact match keywords are suppose to behave as reasons to use it. If I wanted variants, I would use BMM or broad match. – Francis Shovlin (@fmshovlin)
• Intent. A plural vs. singular term can have a varying degree of intent leading to the likelihood (or not) of purchase. – Jessica Cameron Ruud (@Camruud)
• Campaign for a product that may be out of season and that you are scaling back on can incur additional clicks and costs. – Brian Gaspar (@BGaspar)
• Matching, as it includes misspellings. psychic jobs and physic jobs for example, are two very different career fields. – Megan Ginecki (@megster88)

Q2: What are the positives of near phrase and near exact match?

• A good way to lessen the workload in coming up with additional misspelling or plural variants of targeted keywords. To counter my point of Q1 the settings tab allows you to opt of this feature if not relevant to a campaign. – Brian Gaspar
• May be able to increase relevant clicks and convs without possibly wasting budget on broad match or MBM. – Francis Shovlin
• Will help you overcome Low Search Volume filters for valuable keywords… if you create a 2nd campaign. – James Svoboda
• Potentially less work in kwd setup. – Richard Fergie (@RichardFergie)
• Like BMM, can get varients that are hard to otherwise catch. Unlike BMM, can get rid of searches with any excess words. – Tamsin Mehew (@TamsinMehew)
• Time management…? If you don’t have the resources to build and manage your campaigns, could help capture additional SQs. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
• I completely understand not wanting close variants, but to play devil’s advocate couldn’t plural versions & misspellings be helpful. – Matt Umbro
  • Yes, helpful for mispellings. Also, helpful for brand navigational terms (company name, website, etc.) – Jeremy Brown
  • I don’t see value until this is ironed out. – Heather Cooan (@HeatherCooan)
• I think the biggest benefit comes to people who don’t live, eat, breathe ppc. They’ll get *increased* traffic with no more effort. – Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• I must be a control freak. Having trouble seeing how less control is a positive. – Melissa Mackey (@Mel66)
• Near match advantage – Lazy structuring and less time including exact match misspellings. – SEO PPC Guy (@SEOPPCGuy)
  • Depends on Quality Score & Bid and where Ad Rank falls. – James Svoboda
• As Brad pointed out, some advertisers want time moreso than they want control. – David Szetela (@Szetela)
• And assuming you are closely monitoring your search query report you get rid of the crap right away. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still adding singular/plural/misspellings in my ad groups, but I do see slight value (only if a sliver). – Matt Umbro
  • I agree with you on that point, now just need to make sure the variants are singular/plural/misspellings ONLY. – Emily Las
• Sure it could mean less work in KW building, but can mean more work in SQ land. – Emily Las (@emlas)
• I’m somewhat unconvinced it’s humanly possible to find *all* possible misspellings. People are inventive. – Tamsin Mehew
• I’m leaning toward not using near phrase & exact, but I want to review SQ reports before I make a decision one way or the other. – Matt Umbro
• I believe both recent changes ‘simplify’ the management process to reduce time needed and get more people using AdWords. – Francis Shovlin
  • I actually think it’s more about gaining additional clicks than it is making anything easier. – Heather Cooan
• My POV, every time a channel tries to make our job easier, give us an opt-out…just in case were masochist. – Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• I wouldn’t mind it so much if they didn’t opt us in to it automatically. – Cassie Allinger (@CassieAllinger)
• I’d actually LOVE these Near Matching Options if they were Keyword or Ad Group Level settings. – James Svoboda
  • Agree on keyword or ad group setting. Why not make it an actual match type? – Jeremy Brown
• I’d say it’s Google hitting the revenue button more than ease of use. After all, they set broad match as default. – Jeremy Brown

Q3: Though early on, have you seen queries that prove or negate Google’s claim of showing your ads for "other, close variants?"

•  It’s not live yet (as far as I know) so I guess this question for those in the beta. I want to hear from them. The option is there, but they weren’t supposed to be in effect yet. Anyone actually seeing it live? – Jeremy Brown
• I’m not sure yet. My main campaigns are ring fenced by match type. Anyone else’s like that? – SEO PPC Guy

Q4: What are your early impressions of @adCenter‘s modified broad match type?

• Points to Microsoft for rolling this out. Negative points for taking so long. How about fixing DKI next? – Jeremy Brown
• Good option for expanding reasonable reach and traffic potential for adCenter. Makes it easier to port AdWords campaigns.
• Haven’t had a chance to try it yet. Too busy w/all these f’ing Adwords changes. - Melissa Mackey
• I’ve tried some MBM in adCenter campaigns…no big findings yet. – Matt Umbro
  • Same here… Lower volume is a challenge. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
• Volumes are an issue here, however I am seeing lower CPC’s. – Heather Cooan
• I’ve tested MBM in adCenter & am thinking of re-building some campaigns where KW normalization is out of control. – Emily Las
• I think they are great if a tight Geobase is needed and getting volume up is a challenge. – Mike Handy (@mhandy1)

Q5: How do you believe these new match types will influence new account setups and PPC education down the line?

• Education: "Ok, exact match is ONLY when a user types this query as it’s written…except not really!" Ambiguity here we come! – Neil Sorenson
• I see most initial users on mostly broad match, I dunno if this will really have a huge impact right away. – Heath Cooan
• Remember "Quick Start" AdWords accts? The people who used those will have an easier time generating clicks! – Emily Las
• SQ Reports will become even more important, there’ll be dupe campaigns with Exact-Exact, or Real Phrase, since not at kw level. – Chris Kostecki
• One more default setting to remember to go change before launch. – Melissa Mackey
• It’s going to inflate keyword competition across the board the same way that Expanded Broad did. – James Svoboda
• PPC education will be harder. Match type behavior now overlaps and doesn’t make logical sense. – David Szetela
• Keeps current practice for more established PPC pros. But gives some additional insights on variants to use to further optimize. – Brian Gaspar
• I am not against near-type OPTIONS, just make it inline with the delivery. Camp Setting makes no sense (xcept as an auto opt-in). – Chris Kostecki
• I’d even LOVE the new Near Matching is we could choose Phrase or Exact and not both! - James Svoboda

Q6: How will you be explaining these new match types to your clients?

• It’s like BMM for Phrase and Exact. I’ve opted out, but we’ll do some testing to see if it’s for us. – Michelle Morgan
• So Google has investors, and they need to make more money with what they already have, so let me tell you about near… – Chris Kostecki
• VERY good question. They didn’t understand match types before this change; gonna be unbelievably confusing now. - Melissa Mackey
• So far we have explained that there is not enough data to support use and will be testing. Watch for updates. – Heather Cooan
• Another way for us to increase traffic but at a more qualified level when compared to broad or modified broad match. – Brian Gaspar
• Maybe you guys have some sophisticated clients, but ours don’t care abt match types and KW levels; all they care abt is results. I find that the less info you give clients on this stuff, the better & if ur clients understood this stuff as well as you, they wouldn’t need you, would they? So, don’t worry about it. – Gnosis Media Group (@GnosisArts)
  • If they don’t want the info, fine, but you should make the effort to explain. – Matt Umbro
    • Why make the effort to explain something that’ll just confuse them even more? That’s not good biz sense. – Gnosis Media Group
      • It reinforces to clients how complex AdWords has become, and therefore reinforces their need for you. – Logan Durant (@THELoganDurant)
• With an emphasis on the need to test a handful of campaigns before we determine value of new match types. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
• Testing them out. Further question: is anyone dead against these and won’t even test? – Jeremy Brown
  • Hardly ever recommend not testing, but this won’t be at the top of my list of tests to run. – Melissa Mackey
  • I won’t test on some of my large luxury brands. Too risky, have to account for every detail. – Heather Cooan
  • No, while I have some targets that are sensitive & protected, I think it can help in moderation. – Chris Kostecki
• Or: Google wants to hold our hands…and they know how to tickle the palm, but watch your pockets. – Chris Kostecki
• "Google just made my job more time-consuming, so I’ll need to charge you more." – David Szetela

Resources

• Google AdWords Editor (version as of today’s PPCChat 9.7.1)
• Microsoft adCenter Desktop
• http://www.google.com/ads/answers/
• PPCChat Member List (Twitter)
• adCenter Feature Suggestion
• Bing Keyword Research Tool

More PPC Chats

Don’t forget to stay tuned for the next #PPCchat on Tuesday at 12 noon Eastern, 9 am Pacific and 5pm in the UK. Same Chat time, same Chat channel.

CRO Chat

Announcing CRO Chat: A Weekly Open Discussion About Digital Conversions. Read More

Participants

Check out the PPC Chat Twitter list to see and connect with all current and prior participants.

• Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
• James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• Brian Gaspar (@BGaspar)
• Cassie Allinger (@CassieAllinger)
• Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• David Szetela (@Szetela)
• Emily Las (@emlas)
• Francis Shovlin (@fmshovlin)
• Heather Cooan (@HeatherCooan)
• Jeremy Brown (@JBGuru)
• Jessica Cameron Ruud (@Camruud)
• Logan Durant (@THELoganDurant)
• Megan Ginecki (@megster88)
• Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• Mike Handy (@mhandy1)
• Neil Sorenson (@iNeils)
• Richard Fergie (@RichardFergie)
• SEO PPC Guy (@SEOPPCGuy)
• Tamsin Mehew (@TamsinMehew)

You and the Streamcap’n Make it Happen

This is a guest post by Paul Kragthorpe; WebRanking SEM Manager in Minneapolis, Minnesota, #PPCChat Streamcap Grabber, SEO Blog Author. Connect with me @PaulKragthorpe, and Google Plus.

Q1: Ideally, how often do you communicate with clients, whether by email, phone or in person?

• Depends on the client. Large budget & lots going on = 3-4x/week; smaller or routine, maybe every other week. – Melissa Mackey (@Mel66)
• It differs w/every client but email at least weekly, phone call bi-monthly or monthly, and in person, when necessary. - PurePPC.com (@pureppccom)
• It varies per client. Some want a lot of meetings, some are hands-off, some are random based on findings/results, etc. However, the communication line is ALWAYS open. – Mark Kennedy (@markkennedysem)
• All of the above? For simple stuff email, complex stuff call, longer term meetings/planning in person. – Aaron Levy (@bigalittlea)
• Ideally, at least once a week, even if just to check in ans review high level data. – Brittany Baeslack (@BaeslaBr)
• A monthly report/contact is great, but I like to keep in touch as needed throughout the month. Frequency varies. – Robert Brady (@robert_brady)
• At least one meeting a month to go over the report, but I generally have consistent email communication with clients. – Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
• Normally once or twice a week on average, I aim for a face to face once a month. -Andrew Baker (@AndrewBaker72)
• Weekly for phone calls, often daily for email. – Harris Neifield (@HarrisNeifield)
• As much as the client would like, we’re flexible. Almost weekly emails. We set that expectation at the beginning of relationship. Few of our clients are actually in the same state, so in person meetings are few & far in between. – Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)
• I like monthly meetings on small-mid budgets, so trends can be discussed, larger budgets weekly so everyone stays on pace. – Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• I try to do so weekly, a quick check in to see how things are, report any big wins, or noticing areas to expand. – Brian Gaspar (@BGaspar)
• For frequency as Harris said always weekly calls. Would much rather be a voice than a phantom on the other end of a screen. – Aaron Levy
• I tend to email my agency throughout the week, but mostly with PPCMemes. – Chris Kostecki
• It seems like clients can get a hold of us when they want…which is the way it should be. – Matt Umbro
  • That’s the key. The monthly meetings will be to discuss results based on initiatives discussed during the month. – Brian Gaspar
• I find when I have to communicate often, the account gets better work. More the better (though time is not unlimited). – Luke Alley

Q2: Aside from showing great results, what are some things you do to improve client relations and build trust?

• Proactive transparency. If things are going poor, tell them. If things are going great, tell them. If you’re hungry, tell them. – Aaron Levy
• Keep them up to date on new trends / features and explain how they can be used for the client’s campaigns or at least tested. – Mark Kennedy
• Always respond in a timely manner, reach out to them proactively, let them know what new things you’re testing, etc. – PurePPC.com
• Listen 2x more than you talk. Learn about their business. Learn about them as people. Small talk goes a long way. - Melissa Mackey
• Explain everything we do even if they don’t get it. Regular opt plans to let them know what we’re working on. – Harris Neifield
• Its important to reinforce their decision to hire you. Whether its hitting goals and being consistent or nimble and cutting edge. – Chris Kostecki
• Applying those PPC trends to the client’s industry in a way that they understand. It’s about knowing their business goals. – Brian Gaspar
• Set realistic targets and expectations right from the off goes a long way to build trust. So important to have fully tested conversion tracking implemented for your agreed goals, accurate ROI reporting = trust. – Andrew Baker
• Validate their ideas, even if they’re bad. There’s a fine line between being an expert & being a know-it-all. - Melissa Mackey
• I will research new opportunities that may not be directly PPC related if it makes sense for the client (call tracking). – Matt Umbro
  • It’s also about applying those opportunities cross other clients. – Brian Gaspar
• Show them new business opps & marketing tactics too (through SQ’s, kw research, ad copy testing, trends). – Aaron Levy
• Share news and articles that aren’t always related to PPC, but within their industry & marketing. – Francis Shovlin (@fmshovlin)
• Always responding within 3 business hours of a client’s question. - Jessica Fisher (@jessicamfisher)

Q3: Equally as important, how do you convey poor performance or account setbacks to clients?

• The truth – Why it happened and how it can be fixed or addressed. – Mark Kennedy
• By being upfront and completely honest. Also go in with a well thought out plan of how you’re going to fix the issue(s). – PurePPC.com
• Tell it like it is. No spinning, no hiding, no fudging. Honesty goes a LONG way. – Aaron Levy
• Exactly how it is. – Francis Shovlin
• Quickly and with a plan of action to resolve the issue. – Andrew Baker
• Honestly. Tell them what has happened, but always add your game plan for fixing it. - Luke Alley
• Also talk about lessons learned from the experience and how to apply moving forward. – Matt Umbro
• Buck stops here. X, Y and Z went wrong, we are doing A, B & C to fix it, communicate a plan that gets back to success. – Harris Neifield
• "Poor" performance is always relative to some other expectation. Detail assumptions that lead to this expectation. – Richard Fergie (@RichardFergie)
• Don’t forget a plan to make sure it never happens again, not just a band aid. – Aaron Levy
• Be honest and completely transparent, explain why something may have happened & what you’re going to do to fix it. – Matt Hopson (@matthopson)
• And within an agency, the lesson learned can be preventative for other clients in some cases. – Mark Kennedy
• Always address the issue before your client does! – Jessica Fisher
• Poor performance happens, mistakes are avoidable, important to distinguish. – Chris Kostecki
• All this stuff is easy to say but very hard to do when you’ve messed up. – Richard Fergie
  • True, but I’ve always found clients would rather you be honest & explain stuff instead of hiding it. Hiding/ glossing over what’s gone wrong will inevitably come back and bite you in the arse – Matt Hopson
  • Haha. The worst is leaving Disp. Network on or getting geo-settings wrong! Been a while since thats happened luckily. – Luke Alley
• Proactive is better than reactive. Cant catch em all though. – Francis Shovlin
• Acknowledge the issue, the reasons for it, and the actions taken to remedy it. Most likely the next meeting will be more positive. – Brian Gaspar
• Sh&t happens. Trying to hide it won’t work, cause it still stinks. Better to be honest and work on a game plan. – Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• Honesty works best in PPC, at work, and in life. – Melissa Mackey
• In the end acknowledging your errors helps to improve the relationship. – Matt Umbro
• All this honesty stuff can be difficult: How do you create a culture where it happens naturally? – Richard Fergie
  • If you have a good relationship with the client, then it’s easier to do. - Brian Gaspar
  • If it is your own fault (not just poor performance) acknowledging the mistake & how you will avoid in the future can go far. I think it starts from the top. If a boss acknowledges their mistake, employees will be more likely to do it. – Luke Alley
  • Simple! Don’t hire jerks. – Aaron Levy

Q4: How important is the client’s participation in the PPC campaign? Do you convey expectations to clients?

• I absolutely convey my expectations – to have a successful campaign PPC managers NEED their clients’ input. – Matt Umbro
• Can run campaigns w/hands off client, but it works better if client is actively involved & shares ideas & news. – Melissa Mackey
• The more feedback/involvement the client gives, the better the results. They have more inside info on leads to sales and quality. – Mark Kennedy
• It’s HUGE! Can’t scale up if we don’t have input from the client on where they want to be optimized. – Brian Gaspar
• It’s crucial for the client to communicate their business goals & what they expect from their PPC campaign. PurePPC.com
• It’s not even just about the knowledge they bring, but also being responsive to updates, ideas, etc. – Matt Umbro
• As a client, I try not to micro manage, I hired them for a reason. I provide direction, goals, and track performance. – Chris Kostecki
• I handle the PPC (bids, sqs, analyses) + client handles biz (lead quality, ROI, industry news) + we share = win! – Aaron Levy
  • Sharing business goals, product margins, being response to communication, etc. – Matt Umbro
    • Exactly, I need insight into the stuff I CAN’T see. Other than that, I’ll drive. – Aaron Levy

Q5: How active are you with clients about discussing non PPC factors such as conversion rate optimization, SEO, etc?

• CRO is a vital piece of the PPC puzzle; SEO and other marketing is also important for max success. All work together.  So, they get brought up regularly even if they’re not being actively worked on. - Melissa Mackey
• Goes back to listening as often as you talk. Using the SPIN (Situation Problem Implication Need) approach to a client to identify solutions to meet their needs. - Brian Gaspar
• We (@Realicity &@WebRanking) are VERY active with non-PPC factors. Can’t have a band with just a drummer! – Paul Kragthorpe
• CRO is HUGE – part of the job of a PPC manager should be to provide landing page/CRO recommendations. – Matt Umbro
• Depends on the client. If they can control other aspects of biz then bring up. Otherwise all need to focus on biz reality. – Chris Kostecki
• PPC is a data goldmine, can be used as an incubator for site & message testing. plus, can show effectiveness of other channels. – Aaron Levy
• CRO needs to happen more. Using @unbounce for a handful of clients now. Makes it easier to do CRO. – Luke Alley

Q6: What are some strategies you use to improve communication with unresponsive clients?

• That’s tough. I keep updating and communicating, even if it is one-way. Just so they are in the loop whether they respond or not. – Mark Kennedy
• Try all types: email, phone, dropping by in person (if possible); give negative option ("we’ll proceed unless we hear from you"). And as Mark says, keep updating even if you never hear back. – Melissa Mackey
  • 100% agree with you here. It’s documented in the event they never respond and then ask why it was done weeks/months later. – Brian Gaspar
• If after sending 2 – 3 emails and not hearing a response I will pick up the phone and call directly. – Matt Umbro
• Email, call, or even visit, maybe try for a far off strategy session, otherwise double the budget. – Chris Kostecki
• Pick up the phone at diff times of day, week. Send emails of industry or company news. Have sales guys checkin on expectations. - Lisa Sanner (@LisaSanner)
  • This is a good one, sometimes a new face/voice helps. – Melissa Mackey

Resources

• Google AdWords Editor (version as of today’s PPCChat 9.7.1)
• Microsoft adCenter Desktop
• http://www.google.com/ads/answers/
• PPCChat Member List (Twitter)
• adCenter Feature Suggestion
• Bing Keyword Research Tool
• Client Services: How to Gain Buy-In Early

More PPC Chats

Don’t forget to stay tuned for the next #PPCchat on Tuesday at 12 noon Eastern, 9 am Pacific and 5pm in the UK. Same Chat time, same Chat channel.

CRO Chat

Announcing CRO Chat: A Weekly Open Discussion About Digital Conversions. Read More

Participants

Check out the PPC Chat Twitter list to see and connect with all current and prior participants.

• Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
• James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• Aaron Levy (@bigalittlea)
• Andrew Baker (@AndrewBaker72)
• Brian Gaspar (@BGaspar)
• Brittany Baeslack (@BaeslaBr)
• Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• Francis Shovlin (@fmshovlin)
• Harris Neifield (@HarrisNeifield)
• Jessica Fisher (@jessicamfisher)
• Lisa Sanner (@LisaSanner)
• Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)
• Mark Kennedy (@markkennedysem)
• Matt Hopson (@matthopson)
• Melissa Mackey (@Mel66)
• PurePPC.com (@pureppccom)
• Richard Fergie (@RichardFergie)
• Robert Brady (@robert_brady)

This Guy Does Streamcaps, and Does Them Well

This is a guest post by Paul Kragthorpe; WebRanking SEM Manager in Minneapolis, Minnesota, #PPCChat Streamcap Grabber, SEO Blog Author. Connect with me @PaulKragthorpe, and Google Plus.

Q1: How do you & your clients determine target cost per conversions (if you do at all)?

• We have the client set a ceiling where they STOP making $. Avg. Sale * lead-to-sale rate = CPA goal. If we’re under, we win! – Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)
• Ideally CPA is a % of lifetime customer value. not always possible though. – Harris Neifield (@Harris Neifield)
• Depends on ecommerce/sales or lead gen. Lifetime value works it’s way into ecom. depending on expected repeat vs. 1 time sales. – James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Non-branded term target CPC’s should be based on customer lifetime value. Branded term CPC’s can be based on transaction ROI. – Tracy Henry (@tracy_a_henry)
• Our goals are all ROI based, with sitelinks rolled into the performance of the segment they appear in.- Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• Look at profit margins and cost across product sets and set target CPA based on revenue and ad spend goals for each product set. – Jessica Cameron Ruud (@Camruud)
• I think the key here is Customization. Every brand/site is different. – Emily Las (@emlas)
• Depends on the type of site, but for eCommerce: generally 10% of avg. basket size. – Ravi Sodha (@ravisodha)
• Ideally, % of customer lifetime value for generic terms, % of transaction value for branded terms. – Tracy Henry
• (1) Arbitrarily/POMA; (2) based on baseline data; (3) back into it using customer LTV calculations. – Melissa Mackey(@Mel66)
• First step is answering the question: What is this conversion worth to the business? Then define "allowable" CPA. Sometimes I define separate max cost per conversion for new vs. returning customers. – Emily Las

Q2: How has ad positioning affected your cost per conversions?

• I generally aim for position 3 to start, then adjust bids (and position) based on relation to the CPA goal. – Aaron Levy (@bigalittlea)
• Strangely, pos 1 has lower CPAs than 2-4. Maybe better trust? No idea. But I don’t hate it. – Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• Higher converting terms can afford to be in higher position. More Conversions = lower cost per conversion. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
• Top pos. ads can be there due to high conv. rates, so they can have low CPA’s. Surprises some (higher pos. – pay more) but true. Chicken & egg prob. When the conv. rate is high, CPA is low & bids are upped to raise volume. High pos. looks good for CPA. – Harris Neifield
• It takes a pretty massive data set to prove statistical significance. I either haven’t gotten there or there is no difference. – Tracy Henry
• Ad data matched to irrelevant KWs that eventually become negatives have larger impact that AVG Pos. – James Svoboda
• "Other" ads have 5-10x higher cost/conv than Top ads. Aside from that, there’s little variation. – Melissa Mackey
• Depends on the product, level of involvement in purchase, etc. sometimes pos 1 is best, others 3, etc. – Alma Smith (@Alma_Smith)
• Depends on vertical. In comp. niches seems that other positions do better than top. Maybe people fill forms for multiple advert. – Luke Alley 
• Conv. rates by position are a chicken & egg question (PPCers bid up when conv. rate is high) unless you run an ACE position test. – Harris Neifield
• Bottom line – If you have strong copy and landing page cost per conversion will naturally decrease no matter the position the caveat being that your ads are getting enough exposure. – Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
  •  Exactly. I don’t think it’s coincidence that higher spots convert better. More $$ for Goog this way. In other words, all the bling for the top spots doesn’t just help CTR… Helps conv. rate too. – Luke Alley
    • I’ve found cost per conversion is similar between top & side. It’s CTR that differs greatly. – Matt Umbro
• That’s a hard question because it differs w/industry. Some work best in 1st – 2nd pos and some in 5th – 6th. You have to test. – PurePPC.com (@pureppccom)
• I find it kinda dangerous to bid to target position. If keyword does well, bid up. Does poorly, bid down or change! – Aaron Levy
  • Agree, we can’t lose sight of CPA by focusing too much on position. bid up or down if applicable unless running a test. – Harris Neifield
• Hard to tell because you would have to do a SERP look up and see if you have true competition above and below. – James Svoboda
• In some instances I have seen CVR (ultimately affecting CPA) increase as ad position has decreased – but it depends a lot on the KW. – Atalley (@atalley)
• Great point– Sitelinks can provide an extra boost in top spot. Closer to point-of-purchase. – Emily Las
• Top spot definitely has the most variations to offer as far as ad format and extensions. – Michelle Morgan
• It also depends on how you are valuing different types of convs, whether they are 1-per-click or many, mobile v.desktop etc. – Atalley

Q3: Is cost per conversion the primary metric you optimize for? Why or why not?

• Volume is also a big factor. If cost-per-conversion goes up, but is reasonable, and volume goes up, it’s a win win. – James Svoboda
• Cost per Conversion is not our "end all be all" metric since we utilize call tracking within our lead gen. strategy. – Nicole Mintiens (@Tregesy)
  • Good point on call tracking. Sometimes that, and assisted conversions, don’t clearly reflect in conversion data. – James Svoboda 
• Yes – our clients invest in PPC for a business benefit (the conversion). – Harris Neifield
• Depends on the vertical/conversion goal I’m working with. Cost per is not typically the focus. More about volume, ROI. – Emily Las
• No, cost per conversion is a top metric but ROAS is most important metric. – Matt Umbro
• It’s right up there with # of conversions. Have to weigh how many conversions with CPA. They play off of each other. – Michelle Morgan
• ROAS is what we focus on as top priority. – Gnosis Media Group (@GnosisArts)
• Cost per conv is key for B2B but as James Svoboda says, sometimes volume is priority. Best to find a blend of both. – Aaron Levy
• I think the combination of all of the metrics, if you know your baselines, is the best measurement of acct/campaign performance. – Atalley
• We primarily work with ecomm clients where ROAS is most important. We also track revenue down to the keyword level. – Matt Umbro
• I think the combination of all of the metrics, if you know your baselines, is the best measurement of acct/campaign performance. – Atalley
• As others have been saying, cost per conv is kinda irrelevant for e-comm IMO. Rather focus on ROAS & pay more for big orders! – Aaron Levy
• ROAS is good when a client has multiple products and or different margins by product (often e-comm). – Harris Neifield
  • Good point, cost per conversion is still huge factor but if return is there CPC can be higher. – Matt Umbro
• Using ROAS as the top metric. – Alma Smith

Q4: In what situations is a high cost per conversion OK? 

• When the value of the return is higher. – Francis Shovlin (@fmshovlin)
• When overall conv volume is low; when product cost is large; when you’re focused on brand/imp share. – Melissa Mackey
• Personal injury lawyer in Los Angeles. – Luke Alley
• If you’re working in Insurance. – Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• I’ll pay a high cost per conversion if we’re promoting a big money, high margin products so it’s worth it! – Harris Neifield
• When it’s a higher quality conversion (Search > Content, Keyword A > Keyword B). – Michelle Morgan
• When a lead (or sale) is worth more If kwd A leads to average sales of $1k and kwd b leads to sales of $10k, I’m paying for B. – Aaron Levy
• When customer becomes a repeat customer. Considering the customer lifetime value. – Chris Smeda (@ChrisAlanSmeda)
• If cost-per-conversion is high and still reasonable, and volume it acceptable. Also factor in 2nd tier convs. like Email subs. – James Svoboda
• 1 of our client’s is a hotel in nyc @ $500+ / night. EZ to justify high CPC. Essentially, when the product/service has high yield profit margin. – Gnosis Media Group
• When the focus is on brand awareness and/or for highly competitive terms. – Atalley
• IT related keywords are huge and tend to have a long sales cycle, but when they convert they pay for that year’s PPC budget. – Matt Umbro
• A high cost/conv is ok if proper attribution is considered. example: top of the funnel terms/ad groups = fewer attributed conv. – James Zolman (@jameszol)

Q5: Do you report many-per-click cost per conversions? If so, what insight or explanation do you share with clients?

• Nope, not a many-per-conversions type of girl. (Whatever that means). – Michelle Morgan
• If multiple conversions have value, we report on MPC (e-comm, multiple actions). Otherwise, it’s OPC. – Aaron Levy
• I have only reported many-per-click for eComm clients. Want to only include unique leads for B2B. – Francis Shovlin
• Only report when relevant (ie when multiple purchases might have been made in last 30 days). – Robery Brady (@robert_brady)
• Yes, w/total value per conversion & explanation of multi-touch conversions. – Melissa Mackey
• Yes, when multiple-step forms are involved. Explain the difference in each. – Luke Alley
• I report many-per-click conversions and metrics with caution, sometimes are a result of visitor hitting refresh on checkout page. – Matt Umbro
• This is where I like using 3rd party software. I don’t like how Google records conversions to click date rather than conv date. – Emily Las
  • Especially when Google Analytics records conversions on conversion date and NOT click date. – Matt Umbro
• No. Many often pulls in less important conversions like email subscribers when sales conversions are the key data point. - James Svoboda
• Many per click is useful for e-comm but if you’re counting leads or using a customer LTV model, 1-per-click is better. – Harris Neifield
• I like to test by checking both 1-per-click & many-per-click against the client’s data from back end. Then go from there. – Emily Las
• I only tag things that I 100% want to report as convs. Track other stuff in analytics as "nice to know" metrics. – Aaron Levy
  • Sometimes need to track engagement metrics in AdWords to help determine better keywords, ads, & ad groups. – James Svoboda
    • Agreed, I’ll usually set the end goal as the conversion with a higher CPA goal to account for it. – Aaron Levy
• depends. For ecommerce websites I do, since customers can buy multiple items in multiple sessions. – Bart Schuijt (@BartSchuijt)

Q6: How do you predict the implementation of extension level conversion metrics will influence your management and reporting?

• One more way to demonstrate how awesome you are. Shows additional granularity. – Robert Brady
• It probably won’t. We expect reports to travel and want to keep them high level so the C-Level can understand them management will become different, but not reporting. – Harris Neifield
• Not much until they start matching extension data to Ad Groups, Ads and Keywords. – James Svoboda
• You could always see extension conversion metrics by segmenting by click type, but not it is more convenient. – Matt Umbro
• Reports will stay the same; most don’t need to know that much detail. But, may be good in back end in case client wants to dig. – Aaron Levy
• Really need conversions by extension & also ability to pause & test to really make reporting on them worthwhile. – Melissa Mackey

Q7: Do you break out cost per conversions by conversion type or report at aggregate level? Why?

• Yes. We do both. A rollup for top-level metrics and breakdown to show trends by conv type. – Melissa Mackey
• Aggregate. Impossible to "attribute" spend to conversion A vs. Conversion B unless campaigns are silo’d. – Aaron Levy
• Both, but mostly by conversion type as they have different values. – James Svoboda
• I always break out type. Especially because at least 1 type will have revenue associated- Can’t skew that AOV! – Emily Las
• Wouldn’t make sense to break out (would inflate CPA for each lead type). break out to see what is driving the most. – Francis Shovlin
• Also depends on the type of conversion. An email signup isn’t worth as much as a sale. – Melissa Mackey

Resources

• Google AdWords Editor (version as of today’s PPCChat 9.7.1)
• Microsoft adCenter Desktop
• http://www.google.com/ads/answers/
• PPCChat Member List (Twitter)
• adCenter Feature Suggestion
• Bing Keyword Research Tool
• Consider the Ends to Justify the Means in PPC

More PPC Chats

Don’t forget to stay tuned for the next #PPCchat on Tuesday at 12 noon Eastern, 9 am Pacific and 5pm in the UK. Same Chat time, same Chat channel.

CRO Chat

Announcing CRO Chat: A Weekly Open Discussion About Digital Conversions. Thursdays at 12 noon Eastern, 9 am Pacific.

Participants

Check out the PPC Chat Twitter list to see and connect with all current and prior participants.

• Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
• James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• Aaron Levy (@bigalittlea)
• Alma Smith (@Alma_Smith)
• Atalley (@atalley)
• Bart Schuijt (@BartSchuijt)
• Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• Chris Smeda (@ChrisAlanSmeda)
• Emily Las (@emlas)
• Francis Shovlin (@fmshovlin)
• Gnosis Media Group (@GnosisArts)
• Harris Neifield (@Harris Neifield)
• James Zolman (@jameszol)
• Jessica Cameron Ruud (@Camruud)
• Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)
• Melissa Mackey(@Mel66)
• Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• Nicole Mintiens (@Tregesy)
• PurePPC.com (@pureppccom)
• Ravi Sodha (@ravisodha)
• Robery Brady (@robert_brady)
• Tracy Henry (@tracy_a_henry)

About the Tiger Woods of Streamcaps

This is a guest post by Paul Kragthorpe; PPC Search Manager for WebRanking in Minneapolis, Minnesota, #PPCChat Streamcap Grabber, Blogger. Connect with me @PaulKragthorpe, and Google Plus.

Q1: How often do you review paused keywords and ad groups to potentially resume them?

• Not a good process, but I review paused kws/adgs when we’re looking to generate more leads. Otherwise, they stay paused. – Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• Typically they are paused because they didn’t work or were improved elsewhere, or been revamped in another place. So not often. – Mark Kennedy (@markkennedysem)
• If there’s an opportunity to improve the UE on the website, or do CRO, or something then I’d say review frequently. – Neil Sorenson (@iNeils)
• If site gets more inventory related to a paused keyword/ad group I look at resuming. – Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
• If I’m honest, hardly ever. They were paused for a reason in the first place. – Anna George (@AnnaGeorge)
• Something has to change with the site to revisit past poor performers. With that said, always revisit holiday changes since the landscape is so different then (costs, competition, etc). – Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• Only if there are significant campaign changes that have taken place or major events that might need to be considered. – James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Best to review if things aren’t working and you want to try anything. Or, when things are going well, and you have room to grow. – adMarketplace.com (@adMarketplace)
• Depends why they were paused. I review if there are campaign changes/needs + seasonality. – Emily Las (@emlas)
  • Agreed, sometimes keywords/ad groups are paused because they performed poorly, other times just because seasonality, etc. – Trada (@Trada)
• No need to unpause Ad Groups if we’re always testing them and want to have clear history to compare against new ads. – Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• Generally… only un-pause seasonal campaigns / promotions. – Andrew Baker (@AndrewBaker72)
• About once per 1~2 months or when client stresses old product/service (ad group) categories to focus on. – Bart Schuijt (@BartSchuijt)
• I always make sure to make/update ad group names to ensure quick & painless pause and resume process. – Emily Las

Q2: Do you ever delete paused campaigns, ad groups, keywords and/or text ads? Why or why not?

• Yes, if they have been improved upon in other places. – Michelle Morgan
• The delete button in a PPC campaign is never my friend. I steer clear as if it were herpes. – Neil Sorenson
• Personal preference. If it’s too much crap from an inherited campaign, I’ll delete once I digest any value in the history. – Mark Kennedy
• No. I like to keep the historical data to refer back to. Better than me trying to remember everything. – James Svoboda
• I might delete items that have been paused for 2+ plus years to reduce clutter, but generally I do not. – Matt Umbro
• I never delete. Paused campaigns, ad groups, ads, etc. still give you valuable data that can be useful in the future. – PurePPCcom (@pureppccom)
• Deleting is fine as long as you keep records and data of all ad groups etc. Making modifications is another option. – Trada
• Deletes for me happen once I know I’ll never resume. Usually at time of acct restructure or to remove clutter (PPC OCD moment). – Emily Las
• However, I will delete if there have been no impressions and clicks, just to clear the clutter. – James Svoboda
• Rarely. As long as the Interface lets me look at active elements only, it’s no problem. Clutters up the editor though. – Martin Röttgerding (@bloomarty)
• I keep them around to know what has failed. – John Lavin (@Johnnyjetfan)
• QS is influenced strongly by recent CTRs. Deleting paused keywords that have data months old might not help. – James Svoboda
• With my memory, deleting is not a good idea! – Chris Kostecki
• Only pause, all my custom views are set to active campaigns / ad groups in @AdWords Editor any how, so no problem with any mess. – Andrew Baker
• Often feel hesitant to delete old campaigns of the client. However bad, they should have to option to go back to that state. – Martin Röttgerding
• I do try to avoid deleting kws + ads when possible– try to keep the structure so I only delete campaigns. – Emily Las
• Why delete data that could inform future decisions? Space should rarely be an issue–only reason you’d need to delete. – adMarketplace
• Deleting is so final…I always want to make sure I have that safety net (for the most part). – Matt Umbro
• I usually delete campaigns if I’ve got something new/revamped from it somewhere else in the account. Doesn’t happen much though. – Michelle Morgan
• Usually after restructuring an account, I delete old campaigns to maintain overview. – Bart Schuijt

Q3: How often do you review AdWords & adCenter account & campaign settings? Do you tend to find updates needing to be made?

• Whenever I see news or tweets about settings, issues or updates. Or when I need to make adjustments for performance-sake. – Mark Kennedy
• Usually when I have an epiphany and want to test new settings. – James Svoboda
• Very rarely do I update campaign/account settings. Especially if nothing is going extremely wrong. – Michelle Morgan
• The only settings I ever really adjust is ad delivery or ad rotation. But mostly, the settings remain the same, like the song. – John Lavin
• Geo targeting settings are still not perfect, so with local clients, we test geo-settings a lot. – Mark Kennedy
• Usually review settings ~ once/quarter, after updates released or after an account has been transferred. – Nicole Mintiens (@Tregesy)
• The biggest change I make is turning conversion optimizer on in display campaigns Google. That’s about it really. – Michelle Morgan
• I will review once or twice a quarter just to confirm everything is correct. – Matt Umbro
• Rarely as I reflect the campaign settings in campaign names to keep things clear/organized. – Emily Las
• I typically leave the settings the same unless I see a specific reason that necessitates a change. That happens rarely though. – PurePPCcom
• The only settings I ever really adjust is day parting. Its always so different based on client budgets. We watch it daily. – Lawrence Aaron (@CrazyFingers)
• With every new camp I have to go in & "fix" defaults, if theres something new, I check it out, rarely pushed to other camps. – Chris Kostecki
• I always poke my nose in the settings once a month just to make sure everything is OK (I sleep better knowing this). – Andrew Baker
• I like to double-check settings every month or two. Just to make sure I still like the direction a campaign is going. – Alma Smith (@Alma_Smith)
• With all of the recent @adCenter updates have you reviewed your campaign settings? – Matt Umbro
  • Working on revamping my negative keyword structure, but that’s all for now. – Michelle Morgan

Q4: Talk about the naming conventions you use for your individual accounts (campaigns & ad groups) as well as your company MCC?

• Naming conventions include Geo targets, device, TM/Non-TM, BMM, the list goes on (all custom to client needs). – Emily Las
• Use names to define custom metrics, feel like i have re-invented the dewey decimal system so excel can roll up my targets. – Chris Kostecki
• Campaign names include tags like Mobile, Display, Remarketing etc. so can make quick saved filter by campaign name. – James Hume (@zerospin)
• For accounts that use search and display, we’ll have Name – Search, Name – Display, Name – Remarketing, etc. – Mark Kennedy
• When I create new campaigns I tend to add a company designation at the beginning to designate what I have built. – Matt Umbro
• I include search engine, destination, and targeting if it’s a display campaign. – Alma Smith
• Ad group naming and structure is primarily Keyword Based with dash on right then Niche keyword like: Key Word – Niche. – James Svoboda
• Ad groups with all the keywords in LSV, change the ad group name to "Z-LSV – AdGroupName", sorts to the bottom & is a good reminder. – Paul Kragthorpe
• Architecture Overall Theme – Target SEarch/Display – GEO/Device/type of GDN. Like Emily said, it depends on client and historical. – Lisa Sanner (@LisaSanner)
• Each client account has a code in our MCC, campaigns / AGs labeled by function / match type / geo / etc – easy for filtering. – Andrew Baker
• MMC level is named after specialist, accounts retain clients’ name, campaigns = geo-locations for local marketing. – Nicole Mintiens
• I like using 3 digit combos, so ea name can be "read" by the same excel formula, but also so it cant be mined from the url tags. "SQFDEM_<Target>" would be read as: Search, Qualified, Exact Match (qualified means there is a loose brand connection). – Chris Kostecki
• Consistency across accts is crucial esp for same client. If Google builds, I designate with (GOOG) so I can blame poor performance on them and then fix it. – Lisa Sanner
• I heard from one source that campaign and adgroup naming can help quality score. Haven’t verified though. – Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)

Q5: How do you ensure all ads and landing pages are relevant and don’t contain out of date promotions?

• Custom alerting platform of changes made to client sites in regards to specials. – Nicole Mintiens
• Monthly reviews + detailed Basecamp notes = current promos. – James Svoboda
• Manual review mostly. More OCD PPC moments. – Mark Kennedy
• Google calendar. Set reminders on start/stop dates. – Luke Alley
• Make notes in Outlook but also constantly review ads. – Matt Umbro
• Ad scheduling, if I have zero impressions, its time to update. – Chris Kostecki
• It would be nice to have an alert when a client’s site is down, while running campaigns. – Steph Cockerl (@StephCockerl)
  • Besides disqualified ads because of 404 (not valid destination url)? – Chris Kostecki
  • True. Have had issues here. Google is starting to pause ads when 404 errors come up. – Luke Alley
  • Typically Google will disapprove the campaign/ad if a site is recognized for being down. – Nicole Mintiens
• Regular manual review of ads and the use of Analytics to check landing page engagement metrics. – Andrew Baker
• Our platform allows scheduled actions, which I use for promos w/end dates, both creatives or special PROMO AGs (note in name). – Lisa Sanner
• Review ads & follow up w/clients on a frequent basis to make sure promotions are still good. We manually monitor landing pages. – PurePPCcom

Q6: Do you provide clients w/ monthly or quarterly strategy documents? If so what do these documents entail (not monthly reports)?

• I tend to have most strategy session in person or on phone and then follow up with email. More feedback that way. – Mark Kennedy
• I think strategy reports should be a joint effort between clients and ppc manager. Clients have goals, as do ppc managers. – Trada
• Yes. They entail what we have tested, will test, results we’ve seen, what we’ll focus on the next quarter, etc. – PurePPCcom
• Monthly reports. They get 2 PDF’s. 1 with the data and 2 with recommendations for next month and how to improve. – Lawrence Aaron
• I am the client, and more times than not, am sharing our strategy with the agency. – Chris Kostecki
• Quarterly PPC strategy updates don’t work for me. Too slow. Monthly PPC reports include strategy, not just data. – John Ellis (@JohnWEllis)
• For strategy docs / mtg – quarterly but inclusive of all digital marketing channels, SEO, social, etc. – Andrew Baker
• Really depends on client & what’s happening, sometimes meeting w/agenda, sometimes formal PPT, sometimes just talk ad-hoc. – Lisa Sanner

Resources

• Google AdWords Editor (version as of today’s PPCChat 9.7.1)
• Microsoft adCenter Desktop
• http://www.google.com/ads/answers/
• PPCChat Member List (Twitter)
• adCenter Feature Suggestion
• Bing Keyword Research Tool
• Spring Cleaning: 5 Tips for Keeping your Campaign Fresh
• When to Pause or Delete Ads & Keywords To Save Your Quality Scores

More PPC Chats

Don’t forget to stay tuned for the next #PPCchat on Tuesday at 12 noon Eastern, 9 am Pacific and 5pm in the UK. Same Chat time, same Chat channel.

CRO Chat

Announcing CRO Chat: A Weekly Open Discussion About Digital Conversions. Starting Thursday, March 29th at 12 noon Eastern, 9 am Pacific.

Participants

Check out the PPC Chat Twitter list to see and connect with all current and prior participants.

• Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
• James Svoboda (@Realicity)
• Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
• adMarketplace.com (@adMarketplace)
• Alma Smith (@Alma_Smith)
• Andrew Baker (@AndrewBaker72)
• Anna George (@AnnaGeorge)
• Bart Schuijt (@BartSchuijt)
• Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
• Emily Las (@emlas)
• James Hume (@zerospin)
• John Ellis (@JohnWEllis)
• John Lavin (@Johnnyjetfan)
• Lawrence Aaron (@CrazyFingers)
• Lisa Sanner (@LisaSanner)
• Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)
• Mark Kennedy (@markkennedysem)
• Martin Röttgerding (@bloomarty)
• Michelle Morgan (@michellemsem)
• Neil Sorenson (@iNeils)
• Nicole Mintiens (@Tregesy)
• PurePPCcom (@pureppccom)
• Steph Cockerl (@StephCockerl)
• Trada (@Trada)

About the Jedi Master of Streamcaps

This is a guest post by Paul Kragthorpe; WebRanking SEM Manager in Minneapolis, Minnesota, #PPCChat Streamcap Grabber, SEO Blog Author. Connect with me @PaulKragthorpe, and Google Plus.