Yet, for many commercial organisations, the reality is far from the promise. Instead of a high-performance engine, many marketers find themselves managing a “Franken-stack”: a disjointed, expensive, and overwhelming collection of tools that consume more time than they save.

At TrinityP3, we see organisations of all sizes struggling with the same fundamental paradox: they have more technology than ever before, but they are finding it increasingly difficult to deliver effective marketing. The “MarTech Mirage” is the belief that the next piece of software will finally solve the underlying strategic or structural problems of the business.

It is time to stop “collecting” technology and start integrating and optimising it.

The Four Horsemen of MarTech Dysfunction

Why is it so difficult to get the MarTech stack right? In our work auditing and optimising marketing technology for global brands, we consistently see four recurring issues that stall performance.

1. The “Shiny Toy” Syndrome (Strategy-Last)

The most common mistake is a “tech-first” approach. A CMO sees a demo of a new AI-driven personalisation tool or a predictive analytics platform and buys it before defining the specific business problem it is meant to solve.

Technology is an accelerant; if you apply it to a flawed strategy or a broken process, it simply helps you fail faster. Without a clear strategic roadmap, organisations end up with a stack built on “vendor hype” rather than business requirements.

2. The Integration Nightmare: The “Spaghetti” Stack

Many stacks are built incrementally. One department buys a CRM, another buys a social media management tool, and the media agency brings their own ad-tech.

When these systems don’t talk to each other, you create data silos. You might know what a customer bought in-store, but your email system doesn’t, so you send them a “10% off” coupon for a product they just paid full price for. This lack of integration leads to a fragmented customer experience and significant operational friction for the marketing team.

3. The Capability Gap: Ferrari in the Garage

We often find organisations paying for “enterprise-grade” software but only using 10% of its features. This is the “Capability Gap.”

Buying a Ferrari is pointless if you don’t have a licensed driver or a track to race it on. Too often, the investment in the licence for the software is not matched by an investment in the people and training required to operate it. The result? You are paying premium prices for what essentially becomes an expensive version of a basic spreadsheet tool.

4. Technical Debt and Redundancy

As stacks grow, they accumulate “bloat.” Over time, organisations find they have three different tools that all have “email capability” or two different analytics platforms doing the same thing. This redundancy isn’t just a waste of budget; it creates “technical debt”—a layer of complexity that makes it harder and more expensive to upgrade or change systems in the future.

From Accumulation to Optimisation: A Strategic Roadmap

The goal should not be to have the biggest stack, but the most effective one. High-performance MarTech is about Technology Integration—ensuring every piece of the puzzle serves a strategic purpose.

The Foundation: Strategic Capability Mapping

Before touching the software, you must define the mission. Success begins by mapping your Strategic Marketing Requirements to specific technical capabilities. If your strategy prioritizes “Customer Lifetime Value,” your requirements might include predictive churn modeling and automated loyalty triggers. By creating this “Requirements-to-Feature” blueprint first, you establish the criteria for what stays and what goes. Without this, an audit only identifies what is redundant; with it, you identify what is irrelevant.

Action 1: Conduct a Brutal Audit

Armed with your strategic blueprint, evaluate what you already have. This is a mapping of how software is used, who uses it, and—crucially—if it actually fulfills the requirements defined in the Foundation step.

• Identify Redundancies: Where are you paying for overlapping features that serve the same strategic goal?
• Assess Utilisation: Are the tools that match your “North Star” being used to their full potential?
• Evaluate Costs: Is the commercial output of the tool aligned with its cost to the business?

Action 2: Define Your “North Star” Architecture

Stop thinking in terms of individual tools and start thinking in terms of your “core” architecture. Usually, this revolves around a central Source of Truth (CDP or CRM). Your stack should be a hub-and-spoke model; if a tool cannot share data seamlessly with the hub, it creates a silo that undermines your strategic requirements.

Action 3: Focus on the “Human” Element

The most sophisticated MarTech is useless without the right talent. Organizations must align their design with their technology.

• Skill Alignment: Do you have the data scientists to interpret the “North Star” analytics?
• Process Integration: Do your creatives understand how to leverage automation tools to speed up production?
• Agency Synergy: Is your agency roster augmenting your internal capabilities or complicating them?

Action 4: Prioritise Value Over Features

Don’t be seduced by a long list of features. Focus on the Use Cases that drive the most significant business impact. If personalizing your email subject lines drives a 20% increase in revenue, master that before attempting real-time web personalization that requires a massive, unproven data overhaul.

How TrinityP3 Can Help You Master the Stack

The complexity of the MarTech landscape means that an internal perspective is often clouded by “the way we’ve always done it” or by the persuasive sales pitches of software vendors.

At TrinityP3, we provide an independent, objective lens to help you navigate Marketing Technology Integration. We don’t sell software, which means our only incentive is your performance.

Our approach helps brands:

• Streamline the Stack: Identifying and removing redundancies to save budget and reduce complexity.
• Select the Right Partners: Managing the RFI/RFP process to find vendors that actually fit your strategic needs.
• Bridge the Skills Gap: Assessing your internal team and agency roster to ensure you have the capability to drive the technology.
• Maximise ROI: Turning MarTech from a “cost centre” into a genuine driver of commercial growth.

Whether you are looking to implement a new stack from scratch or—as is more common—trying to make sense of the one you already have, we provide the framework to ensure your technology serves your strategy, not the other way around.

Your Next Step: The Technology Health Check

Is your MarTech stack a competitive advantage or a strategic anchor? Most marketers suspect it’s the latter, but they lack the data to prove it to the C-suite.

To help you get a clear picture of where you stand, we have developed the Marketing Technology Stack and Practice Assessment. This diagnostic tool is designed to highlight the friction points in your current setup and provide a roadmap for optimisation.

By taking the assessment, you will gain insights into:

• How your stack stacks up against industry best practices.
• Where your biggest “capability gaps” lie.
• Whether your technology is actually supporting your customer journey or hindering it.

Take the TrinityP3 Marketing Technology Assessment here.

The MarTech Mirage is real, but it is avoidable. By moving away from a culture of “software collection” and towards a disciplined approach to “technology integration,” you can finally turn the promise of MarTech into a reality. The time to stop buying and start optimising is now.

Read more on our Marketing Transformation Practice and our Marketing Technology solutions. Or contact us about a no obligation conversation to explore how we can assist with your marketing effectiveness efforts.

The post The MarTech Mirage: Why More Technology Usually Means Less Marketing Performance appeared first on TrinityP3 Global Marketing Management Consultants.

Joel shares how he helped spearhead the explosive growth of Jim’s Group with their digital presence and franchise recruitment strategy. Which now achieves over a $1b annual turnover from over 5,700 franchisees across more than 50 divisions in Australia, NZ, Canada, and the UK. 

From AI tools, failing, and harnessing real authenticity, to letting go and trusting the network to inspire people, Joel shares Jim’s Group’s unique recipe for success. 

Follow Managing Marketing on Soundcloud, Podbean, TuneIn, Stitcher, Spotify, Apple Podcast and Amazon Podcasts.

Do you have brand guidelines? Do you have limitations in what you can and can’t do for the quality of the content or the type of content?

No, I’ve got none.

Transcription (Edited):

Anton Buchner:

Hi, I’m Anton Buchner, Business Director at Trinity P3 Marketing Management Consultancy. Welcome again to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media and advertising with industry thought leaders. Today, I’m talking with one of Australia’s top franchise executives, the CMO of Jim’s Group, Joel Kleber. Joel is an innovator who has spearheaded the explosive growth of Jim’s Group with their digital presence and franchise recruitment strategy, especially around utilising advanced AI systems and tools. I didn’t realise the group has over a billion dollars in annual turnover, with 5,700 franchises and 50 divisions. It has seen great success in New Zealand, Canada, Australia and the UK since Jim Penman started it in 1982. So, it is with great pleasure that I welcome Joel Kleber to the podcast.

Joel Kleber:

Thank you, Anton, for having me on; I appreciate it.

Anton Buchner:

I’m looking forward to delving into your marketing mind and lifting the hood a bit on the Jim’s Group. I didn’t realise you joined the group back in 2011.

Joel Kleber:

Yes, 2011. It was my first job when I moved up to Melbourne to start my law commerce degree. I had a mate working out here who moved back to Warrnambool and mentioned they were always looking for people. I applied, despite having a two-day-a-week law clerk job, and I’ve been here ever since.

Anton Buchner:

Nice, you liked it so much you stayed.

Joel Kleber:

Some people say it’s like a cult sometimes; you come in, get “Jimified”, and stay for a long time.

Taking the Reins and Early Strategy

Anton Buchner:

Classic. You took the CMO reins in 2019. For people who might know the Group but not you personally, what did you see from a marketing perspective when you took over? What was the Group doing?

Joel Kleber:

Back in 2019, we were doing nothing on social media or with video. People used to hear great business advice and lessons internally from Jim all the time, and I wondered why we weren’t putting that stuff online. At that time, video was a bit more expensive and prohibitive regarding pre-production costs. I started offering my opinions on the Jim’s Group as a brand. It didn’t really have a unified brand; everyone knew divisions like Jim’s Mowing or Jim’s Cleaning in isolation, but no one really knew the story of the Jim’s Group and Jim himself beyond a book given out in training.

I was getting into Gary Vaynerchuk at the time and thought we should take that model:

hire a couple of full-time videographers, film everything, and put it online. I started that in 2019 without much of an idea of what I was doing; looking back, I’m actually pretty embarrassed by some of it. However, it started bringing new franchisees and prospects into training. Since 2019, we’ve grown from 3,600 franchisees to 5,700. We had been stagnant for ten years, and the only thing we did differently was relentless video content on multiple channels alongside the Jim Penman brand separately. We haven’t changed much in the system or how we operate internally; it was just a heavy video content approach that was transparent about what we do. It was an accidental strategy, but it was what the business needed.

Counteracting Negativity with Transparency

Anton Buchner:

It’s fascinating. As an outsider, I’ve followed the Group since the 80s, seeing Jim’s face on the side of vans. It seems obvious now, but as digital channels arrived, you started putting as many videos up as you could. What was the specific thread or type of content that you were looking to produce?

Joel Kleber:

It was all based on transparency. In 2019, I was inspired because there were many bad stories around franchising. Other brands were getting bad press, and we were being lumped in with them, with people assuming Jim takes 30 or 40 percent, which we obviously don’t. Franchising is generally a low-trust industry. Whenever there’s a bad franchisee story, it’s all over “A Current Affair,” but you never see the good stories where someone changed their life.

I thought we needed to counteract that negativity by being transparent. Everything about our fees, how our territories operate, and our contracts is now online. I wanted to be as transparent as possible with nothing to hide. We started a Facebook live stream called “Ask Jim” with my webcam. It answers questions like “Is Jim real?” or “Why doesn’t he have a beard?”. Every week, prospects could ask anything and the actual CEO would answer in a live video format.

Humanising the Brand: The “Ask Jim” Initiative

Joel Kleber:

When we started “Ask Jim,” franchisees remarked that they had never seen him like that before; it made him look human. Franchisees were sending prospects to watch it as part of their research. People would come into training months later and tell Jim they decided to become a franchisee after watching four or five episodes. Jim realised that answering questions cost him nothing but time while bringing in more franchisees.

We still do “Ask Jim” every three weeks at our new franchisee training. Jim sits on a stage with 60 to 100 new franchisees and answers their questions, which we then repurpose. During the lockdowns, it became a vital communication tool. We would get 400 to 500 live viewers because people had no idea what was going on. Even today, franchisees who have been around for ten years jump in to ask questions or make suggestions. In a low-trust industry, we decided to front-load our trust and put everything out there.

Anton Buchner:

That’s great to hear. In a franchise model, you are trusting the person who turns up. If that trust flows from Jim through to the franchisee, it’s awesome. Some businesses just put “transparency” as a value on the wall while covering things up. I love that you actually do it.

Joel Kleber:

I agree 100%. People talk about being transparent or “authentic,” but then they want to cut franchisee interviews because “legal has to approve it”. I don’t have that problem here. Jim says things online that you probably wouldn’t usually put out, but we do it. People love the honesty. Even if they don’t agree with Jim on everything, they know everything about the business, whereas other brands are ultra-controlled and chopped up 50 different ways by legal.

Embracing AI and Digital Tools

Anton Buchner:

I admire the stories. It brings me to how you’ve done it. I’ve done a lot of interviews regarding the development of AI and tech platforms over the last couple of years. How are you creating your video content? Are you using AI tools? What have you learned?

Joel Kleber:

I have an internal videographer, Charles, who does all the editing. We also have an offshore editor team in the Philippines who handles short-form content, producing eight to ten reels a day. I use AI tools like repurpose.io and OpusClip to repurpose content for Jim’s personal brand. OpusClip is great because I can take a long-form podcast and get 20 reels in ten minutes, five or six of which are usually really usable.

We have a really lean team for our output. I have this lean team because I have a lot of trust from the franchisees and Jim himself. I don’t need approvals or storyboards; I just document what I want and put it out there. Other businesses have so many approvals and people needing to tick things off, but I’m lucky that Jim and the franchisees trust me because of the results.

For ideation, we use Claude and ChatGPT. Occasionally we use Gemini. We can upload videos directly into Gemini to get feedback on why a video might have flopped. I follow many AI people on X and LinkedIn to stay updated. You just have to give it a try, experiment, and see what happens. Jim teaches me that just because we’ve always done something one way doesn’t mean we should continue that way. You have to be willing to try something new.

Jim and the Digital Avatar

Anton Buchner:

Does Jim get involved in the AI side of things?

Joel Kleber:

Yes, our AI avatar, which we made with Delphi, actually went viral on news.com.au. I’ve made a digital Jim using Delphi AI. I even had him talking to his own digital clone on YouTube, which was quite funny. We also use ElevenLabs to clone his voice. We can put a script in and get a voice clone that sounds exactly like him to use for marketing assets without him needing to be physically involved.

Even though he’s 73, he’s very forward-thinking and tech-savvy. Back in the late 80s, he developed a franchise management system called “Franchise” that was quite advanced. He listens to two audiobooks a week, and lately, he’s been listening to books about AI. It’s actually a bit annoying for me because he’ll come to me with a list of 20 things his own chatbot should do based on those books, and I have to try my best to implement them.

A Culture of Innovation and Calculated Risk

Anton Buchner:

It’s good to keep pushing.

Joel Kleber:

You’ve got to be willing to fail. I think many marketers are afraid to fail, but you learn so much more from it. Jim encourages this; if we fail, we ask what we learned and move on. Many marketers don’t have that leeway. If I make a mistake, I don’t get in trouble; I’m probably encouraged to keep going.

We see a lot of conservatism across the board, from corporate to mid-market. We aren’t seeing many big risk-takers. It might be old-school thinking where people feel they have to invest millions in a big ad, which is risky. My approach is to create content, tell stories, and if something fails, just cut the video and produce something else.

I still get in trouble with franchisees sometimes. If Jim says something openly—like that you can pay a restraint of trade fee and walk away with your clients—some franchisees don’t like it, even though it’s true. When we first started, I had problems with risk-averse franchisees telling me I couldn’t say certain things. However, the results in franchise sales outweighed those concerns. I’ve been at Jim’s for 15 years because I don’t have the restriction of getting 50 approvals. I have a lot of freedom.

Brand Guidelines and Franchisee Empowerment

Anton Buchner:

What about your brand? Do you have guidelines or limitations?

Joel Kleber:

We allow franchisees to use social media quite liberally. Many franchise brands restrict this or want to approve everything, but we are the opposite. We provide guidelines, such as being compliant with WH&S and ensuring work quality is high, but then they can do what they like.

Because of this, we have franchisees with massive followings. One guy has 240,000 followers in pool care; another mowing franchisee has 100,000. Our pool care franchisee alone has generated 1 billion organic views on TikTok. If we had required approvals for everything, we never would have had that. Some of what they create isn’t typical corporate material, but it generates massive reach for nothing, and that should be encouraged.

Our brand guidelines are per division. Franchisees also police each other. If a franchisee sees someone doing the wrong thing on social media, I’ll hear about it within five minutes. I then add that to a Notion page of “good and bad” examples. Every few weeks at training, I do a 90-minute social media and AI session where I show these examples. We also have a franchisee intranet with around 500 videos from franchisee interviews over the years.

We have extremely creative franchisees. One guy goes live on TikTok from his dog wash trailer for every groom and wash, and he gets three to four bookings a day from it. While there are challenges with franchisees creating content we wouldn’t personally put online, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

“Nuggets of Gold”

Anton Buchner:

That freedom encourages people to be themselves. Humanity in business is rare today, and that authenticity only comes from people being themselves. Seeing a franchise owner who clearly loves what they do shines through when they are solving problems for a customer. This leads to advocacy and recommendations.

Joel Kleber:

Absolutely. Prospects often message franchisees directly on social media to ask about the business because they trust the local franchisee more than corporate accounts.

Anton Buchner:

If you could leave people with one “nugget of gold,” what would it be?

Joel Kleber:

Be more transparent about what you do online. People want authenticity, which is often the opposite of the controlled, prim and proper image businesses put out. Transparency has been the biggest factor in our growth. Also, take more risks. I am a “non-marketer” and I’ve managed to grow the group by 2,100 franchisees. I don’t think someone from a traditional marketing background could have done what I did because I didn’t know any better and was allowed to try ideas and fail. One idea, like “Ask Jim,” can change an organisation.

Anton Buchner:

Those are three nuggets of gold wrapped in one. Take the risk. Don’t over-research everything; put something in the market and if it sells, it sells. In the digital world, people can get analysis paralysis.

Joel Kleber:

I’ve never gone through the process of business cases and budget allocations. You need the data from actually putting things out there to get feedback and adjust.

Anton Buchner:

Joel, thanks very much for coming in. One more question: what is the next category Jim’s is going to get into?

The post Managing Marketing: Revealing The Truth Behind Jim’s Group’s Success appeared first on TrinityP3 Global Marketing Management Consultants.

We are moving into an era of data-first, privacy-first marketing. This is not merely a technical checkbox; it is a transformational challenge that dictates how brands, agencies, and consumers interact in a world where the “horse has literally bolted” on traditional definitions of privacy.

The Perfect Storm: Why “Marketing as Usual” is Over

For years, the industry operated on a “collect data at any cost” mentality. That era is ending due to three converging forces:

1. The Regulatory Catch-up

While Europe’s GDPR set the gold standard over a decade ago, Australia has remained significantly behind. However, the Australian Privacy Act is undergoing major changes that will have significant strategic implications for how brands handle consumer data. This isn’t just a minor update; for many, the effort to become compliant will mirror the significance of the “Year 2000” (Y2K) technical overhaul.

2. The Death of the Third-Party Cookie

Google remains the last major browser allowing third-party cookies, and even they are phasing them out through the Privacy Sandbox process. The ability to track users across the web without their explicit, granular consent is vanishing, forcing a return to first-party relationships.

3. The Consumer Trust Deficit

Frequent data breaches and “creepy” advertising—like seeing ads for hiking shoes for a year after you’ve already bought them—have eroded consumer trust. Consumers are increasingly aware that they are being “listened to” and tracked, leading to a demand for transparency that governments are now beginning to enforce.

Moving to Privacy by Design

Adrian Treahy argues that the solution isn’t just “in-housing” your data and hoping for the best. It requires Privacy by Design—an approach where every aspect of the business, from the call centre to the media agency, considers the value of every trust interaction.

This shift changes the definition of a campaign. It moves marketing from an executional task (sending emails) to a value-creation task centered on understanding total lifetime customer value through a privacy-compliant lens.

The 7-Step Action Plan for Marketers and Agencies

If you are looking to navigate the next 12 months, here is the “shopping list” of strategic priorities to ensure your marketing remains viable and your brand remains trusted.

1. Prioritise First-Party and Zero-Party Data

Stop thinking of data as just an “input” for a recipe. You must prioritise zero-party data—information that consumers intentionally and proactively share with you. This requires creating meaningful transactions where the user sees a clear value exchange for their information.

• Action: Integrate your Customer Data Platforms (CDPs) at all levels of the organisation, ensuring data silos (like the call centre) are broken down.

2. Embrace Radical Transparency

Consent shouldn’t be a fine-print afterthought; it should be a value proposition. Look at Apple: they have turned privacy into a point of differentiation and brand leadership.

• Action: Build strategic marketing where transparency is front and centre, driving the strategy rather than following it.

3. Technical and Operational Readiness

Many organisations self-rank at the “entry-level” for technical readiness. You cannot simply buy a “machine that goes ping” and solve the issue.

• Action: Move to server-side tracking and tagging. Since you can no longer rely on the browser to track data, you must have systems in place that allow for privacy-compliant analytics based on your own first-party data.

4. Utilise Data Clean Rooms

When sharing data with partners or media publishers, the old ways of file-sharing are too risky.

• Action: Explore the use of Data Clean Rooms—secure environments where multiple parties can combine data for analysis without either party seeing the other’s raw PII (Personally Identifiable Information).

5. Pivot to Contextual Advertising

Tracking users around the internet is not only becoming technically difficult; it is becoming socially “creepy”.

• Action: Invest in contextual targeting. By aligning your ads with relevant content in real-time, you drive relevancy without destroying brand trust through invasive tracking.

6. Implement Robust Data Governance

Minimise the data you collect. If you don’t need it for a specific, transparent purpose, don’t take it.

• Action: Adopt a Consent Management Platform (CMP) that allows for granular control. Prepare for a future where consumers can not only view their data but easily delete it at will, similar to GDPR requirements.

7. Strategic Collaboration

This is not a challenge that marketing can solve in a vacuum. It requires cross-functional training and compliance alignment across the entire business.

• Action: Agencies must move “upstream” to talk strategically about privacy-first marketing, rather than just waiting for an executional brief.

How TrinityP3 Can Help

At TrinityP3, we understand that the move to a privacy-first model is a transformational challenge, not just a marketing one. The complexity of data silos, fragmented MarTech stacks, and underutilised technology can feel overwhelming.

We provide the strategic framework to help you:

• Assess your current Data & Privacy maturity.
• Align your MarTech stack with your privacy obligations.
• Bridge the gap between marketing, technology, and legal compliance.
• Navigate the transition from third-party reliance to first-party data ownership.

You can explore our full range of Data and Privacy services here to see how we help brands turn privacy from a hurdle into a competitive advantage.

Your Next Step: The Privacy Health Check

Are you ready for the regulatory changes “coming down the pike”?. Most organisations are not as prepared as they think.

To get an immediate sense of where your brand stands, we invite you to take our Data Privacy and Security Health Check. It’s a quick, diagnostic tool designed to highlight your vulnerabilities and identify where your focus should be for the next 12 months.

Take the TrinityP3 Privacy Health Check here.

The era of “marketing as usual” is over. The time to start building a privacy-first foundation is now.

Read more on our Marketing Transformation Practice and our Data Privacy and Compliance solutions. Or contact us about a no obligation conversation to explore how we can assist with your data and privacy compliance efforts.

The post Why Privacy-First Marketing is Your New Strategic Frontier appeared first on TrinityP3 Global Marketing Management Consultants.

For many CMOs, the fundamental question—“Is our marketing actually working?”—remains as difficult to answer today as it was in the era of John Wanamaker. The tragedy is that while we have more ways to measure activity, we seem to have fewer ways to prove effectiveness.

Commercial organisations of all sizes are currently struggling with what we at TrinityP3 call the “Effectiveness Gap”. This is the space between the digital metrics that marketing teams celebrate (clicks, impressions, likes) and the commercial outcomes that the CEO and CFO actually care about (market share, margin, and long-term business growth).

To bridge this gap, we must move beyond the “reporting” mindset and towards a genuine Marketing Effectiveness framework. This is not just about choosing a better software platform; it is about a wholesale transformation of how marketing is valued, measured, and optimised within the business.

The Five Pillars of the Effectiveness Trap

Why is it so hard to get right? In our work with global brands, we consistently see five recurring issues that prevent organisations from achieving true marketing effectiveness.

1. The Strategy-Measurement Disconnect

The most common point of failure occurs before a single dollar is spent. We often see a “Grand Canyon” sized gap between the high-level business strategy and the tactical measurement plan. If the business strategy is to “premiumise the brand,” but the marketing KPIs are focused on “lowest cost-per-acquisition,” the measurement system is effectively incentivising the team to undermine the strategy. Without mapping metrics directly back to strategic pillars, you aren’t measuring success; you’re measuring drift.

2. Metric Myopia: The Vanity Trap

In the digital age, we’ve become obsessed with what is easy to measure rather than what is important to measure. High “engagement rates” feel good in a weekly report, but they rarely correlate directly with sustainable profit. When marketing becomes a game of “optimising the numbers” rather than “optimising the business,” effectiveness suffers.

3. The “Finance Wall” and the Language Barrier

Finance speaks the language of capital allocation, risk, and ROI. Marketing often speaks the language of “brand health” and “reach.” When a CMO cannot explain how a 5% increase in brand awareness will lead to a specific commercial outcome, the CFO views marketing spend as a “cost to be cut” rather than an “investment to be managed.”

4. The Attribution Fallacy

Many organisations are still clinging to “last-click” or “multi-touch” attribution models that are fundamentally flawed. These models over-value short-term, bottom-of-the-funnel tactics, leading to an “attribution bias” that starves long-term brand-building activities of necessary funding.

5. Fragmented Data and Siloed Insights

The modern marketing stack is often a patchwork of disconnected platforms. Without a “single source of truth,” marketers are left trying to piece together a jigsaw puzzle where half the pieces—and the strategic context—are missing.

Moving Towards a Marketing Effectiveness Framework

True marketing effectiveness is the result of aligning Strategy, People, Process, and Technology. At TrinityP3, we help organisations move from “reporting on what happened” to “predicting and driving what will happen.”

Action 1: Map Metrics Back to Strategic Intent

Before looking at a dashboard, you must map your measurement framework to your business strategy. This involves identifying the Strategic Levers (e.g., Increasing Penetration, Improving Retention, or Defending Price Premium) and assigning specific metrics that prove those levers are moving. If a metric doesn’t provide evidence of strategic progress, it should be relegated to a “diagnostic” level or discarded entirely.

Action 2: Define a Unified Measurement Framework

Effectiveness requires a tiered hierarchy where every level supports the one above it:

• Commercial Metrics: The “Boardroom” KPIs (Revenue, Market Share, CLV).
• Strategic Outcomes: The “Effectiveness” KPIs (Brand Salience, Consideration, Price Sensitivity).
• Tactical Metrics: The “Efficiency” KPIs (CPA, Reach, Conversion Rate).

Action 3: Bridge the Gap with Finance

Marketing effectiveness is a “team sport” that includes the CFO. Marketers must learn to talk about “Customer Acquisition Cost” (CAC) and “Life-time Value” (LTV) in ways that align with financial reporting. TrinityP3 often acts as the independent “translator” between these two departments.

Action 4: Balance the “Long and the Short”

A robust effectiveness programme must account for the “delayed” impact of brand advertising. This involves moving beyond simple attribution and embracing Marketing Mix Modelling (MMM) or Econometrics to look at the total business ecosystem—including price changes and competitor activity.

Action 5: Align Agency Incentives

Are your agencies incentivised to drive your business growth, or to spend your media budget? Effective marketing requires an agency roster where remuneration models and KPIs are strategically aligned with your commercial goals.

How TrinityP3 Supports Your Transformation

Implementing a measure of marketing effectiveness is a transformational journey. TrinityP3 provides the expertise to:

• Audit Strategic Alignment: Ensuring your measurement plan actually rewards the execution of your business strategy.
• Develop Custom Effectiveness Frameworks: Tailored to your specific industry and organisational maturity.
• Facilitate Marketing-Finance Alignment: Building the commercial credibility of the marketing function within the C-suite.

We don’t sell software, and we don’t buy media. This independence allows us to provide a truly objective assessment of what is working and what is simply a waste of resources.

Your Next Step: The Marketing Effectiveness Assessment

The first step in any transformation is understanding your starting point. Our Marketing Effectiveness Measurement Self-Assessment helps you identify the specific issues holding you back.

This diagnostic tool asks the hard questions:

• Does your measurement framework explicitly track your strategic objectives?
• Is your definition of “effectiveness” shared by your CEO and CFO?
• Do you have a clear understanding of the long-term impact of your brand spend?
• Are your agencies being measured on the right outcomes?

Take the TrinityP3 Marketing Effectiveness Assessment here.

Marketing effectiveness is the ultimate competitive advantage. Those who can prove their strategic value to the business will lead the next wave of growth. Don’t let the “Effectiveness Gap” define your brand’s future.

Read more on our Marketing Transformation Practice and our Marketing Effectiveness solutions. Or contact us about a no obligation conversation to explore how we can assist with your marketing effectiveness efforts.

The post The Effectiveness Gap: Why Marketing Measurement is Failing the Commercial Test (and How to Fix It) appeared first on TrinityP3 Global Marketing Management Consultants.

From her early days at Myer to her impactful role at Priceline and beyond, Amanda shares insights on customer obsession, community building, and the evolution of marketing in a rapidly changing landscape.

Amanda has not just embraced the challenges of these categories, businesses and marketing, she appears to relish them. From retail, to banking, to wellness and beauty, she has not just survived, she continues to thrive.

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In banking, normally you want the customers to love you more, you know to create a love mark, I was going in to make them hate you less.

Transcription (Edited):

Darren Woolley: 

Hi, I’m Darren Woolley, founder and CEO of Trinity P3 Marketing Management Consultancy, and welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners. If you’re enjoying the Managing Marketing podcast, please like, review, or share this episode to help spread the words and wisdom from our guests each week.

Resilience is a term that gets bandied around in a world of increasing complexity and demand, which is particularly relevant if you’ve built a career in marketing. Marketing leaders will often find themselves following career paths where they move from category to category: consumer packaged goods one day, retail the next, and insurance after that. But they’ll also move from organisations where marketing is seen as a strategic business partner right through to the “colouring-in department” in the corner, and everything in between. Overlay that with the ability of marketing to somehow invent the next hot thing, promoted with huge dollops of FOMO, and you have a career that is challenging at best and exhausting and even crushing at its worst.

My guest today continues to not just embrace this challenge; she appears to relish it. From retail to banking to wellness and beauty, she has not just survived, she’s thrived. Please welcome to the Managing Marketing Podcast, my long-term friend and marketer extraordinaire, Amanda Connors. Welcome, Amanda.

Amanda Connors: 

Thank you, Darren. Great to join you today.

The Foundations of Marketing at Myer

Darren Woolley: 

This is a conversation that’s a long time coming because we have known each other for probably more years than either of us will admit. But it’s been fascinating watching as your career has progressed through all of the different iterations and different categories and having conversations along the way that I think need to be shared. So let’s start at the beginning. What was it that attracted you to marketing, and how did you actually get into marketing?

Amanda Connors: 

Well, my first big gig was at Myer, and I was attracted because I loved fashion at that time. I thought, “You know, I want to work in fashion.” That was way back in my early 20s and it was interesting. I was studying marketing at the time. But what I really found was that I was so fortunate to work in retail at that point in time because Myer was such an amazing training ground. I mean, in my early 20s, just the scale, the execution, and the commercial discipline that I learned back then was something that really put me in a brilliant position.

And I think to have that scale and that expertise, everything opened up for me when I was there. I was studying my marketing degree part-time at Chisholm, which then turned to Monash. But at that time, under the different CEOs and managing directors, we really had retail training. So we went across to Babson University; we learned about the eight ways to win in retailing. I had at that stage, I think, an $80 million budget—and I even complained when that got cut back! I think at that time, Darren, was when we met each other. You were at Mattingly in the creative department, and Mattingly back then was our ad agency.

So, from a young age at 20, being promoted very young but learning the disciplines of retailing, understanding the customers, understanding the market and the trends, and being able to work across all kinds of areas in marketing—whether that be loyalty, catalogues, promotions, events, sponsorships, or Melbourne Fashion Festivals—it was such an incredible grounding. It taught me to be customer-obsessed, market-obsessed, commercially sharp, and constantly evolving. That’s what set the foundation for me.

The Fast-Paced Discipline of Retail

Darren Woolley: T

he thing I noticed—you’re absolutely right, that was my first job in copywriting. I’d come from medical research into copywriting at Mattingly, and my first client was Myer. It was not just the volume of work. We were working on 70 to up to 100 press briefs a week and radio on top of that, including the infamous Myer bargain basement: “Ladies, we’ve got bags galore!” That was the start for me. But what made it work was the discipline. I think the routine, the rhythm, and the discipline of that process were so important, not just for you as the client for the agency, but also for the agency. The agency fell into this rhythm of being able to produce large amounts of very good quality work that actually moved sales, but in a way that was largely not stressful. I mean, there were stresses, but they were the exception rather than the rule, weren’t they?

Amanda Connors: 

Look, I think you’re so right, Darren. And you think of the volume. It wasn’t just the volume; it’s the quality of work. You think about the spend on press, on magazines, on catalogues, and then TV commercials, sponsorships, and events. So you think about where you had to adapt to move fast and deliver quality. Given retail, you knew if that press ad or that catalogue didn’t work, you would find out Monday morning. You would be there Monday morning with the CEO and the MD calling a “war room.” You’d have all of the advertising up on the wall and you’d walk through: Is it working? What are the sales results? What’s coming up next? Do we need to adapt? Do we need to change? That is discipline. It’s about being strategic but being fast, moving really fast.

This is so different to my friends working in FMCG, because that was really slow. You’d have to present it to the board. With retail, it was week in, week out, as well as looking a year ahead because you’re planning Christmas 12 months out or the next fashion launch 12 to 18 months out. I think that’s what made me so fast, so adaptable, and gave me perseverance. If something didn’t work, I persevered, went back, found out what wasn’t working, and did the research, but was able to turn on a pin. So even though retail is supposed to be not so strategic, it did teach you about adaptability and change.

Repositioning and the Evolution of a Brand

Amanda Connors: 

I’ll come to another point, because I was there when Myer transformed itself. Every year we’d have a different position. I’ll never forget we went from a really upmarket magazine with big sponsorships at the races, and then because we had discount department stores and department stores were dying, we did a big retail tour around the world. I remember visiting all the best retailers and coming back and saying, “Okay, we’re now going to be a shopping mall and not a department store.” We opened the Myer Sports area; we decided not to do homewares and furniture anymore because furniture just wasn’t profitable. We were going to do faster fashion and really go after the youth market. We created destinations like Nike Town and tried in-store concepts.

Now, that didn’t work. So then we repositioned again under a different managing director and we became “stack them high, make them fly.” Across each level, the department store became a discount department store.

Darren Woolley: 

Yeah, the “store within the store,” it was called.

Amanda Connors: 

We lost customers. We were part of Coles Myer at that stage and really the Myer brand was dying because we tried to change but we’d lost what we were anchored in, which was what our customers wanted and what a department store was. We were trying to just be competitive and the sales went up, but the brand health tracking went down and the feedback from customers was an outcry. It was interesting repositioning just about every year. That wasn’t just marketing; that was everything from ranging to stores to really the whole essence of the brand.

Shifting to Strategic Branding in Banking

Darren Woolley: 

Because you went from what was a branded retail with Myer to Westpac, wasn’t it? And that feels like a big shift to go from retailing, but I guess there are also similarities in that it’s very much consumer focused. Whether the consumer is a business person or a person, it’s still talking directly to the consumer.

Amanda Connors: 

Yes. And I was really excited about that opportunity, though it was so much slower. I thought it would be a lot more strategic. When I went there, the banks were actually bringing in a lot of real strong marketers that had either been in ad agencies or had worked in FMCG. I followed a GM, a bit of a mentor of mine, who moved across to be head of marketing there, so I went to head up brand and sponsorships.

Going in there, it was again so financially driven and driven by accountants; it wasn’t actually focused on the customer. I used to laugh because normally you want the customers to love you more, to create a “love mark.” I was going in to make them hate us less. Of course, it was a great opportunity for me because that was the first time they’d ever put a brand strategy together. I also worked with you at the time in looking at our agency relationships and what we needed. I brought in a really good research and brand consultant and started a whole repositioning of Westpac to actually have customer segments, to be really clear about what the purpose was, to be clear about the storytelling, and to change all the visual identity. We also did sponsorships and started brand health tracking rather than just customer experience tracking. It was a great opportunity using some skills I learnt very young in retail about being customer focused, rather than just product focused, which was what banking was at that time.

Darren Woolley: 

But it’s interesting what you said about the pace, going from retail where it was week in, week out, to banking where it slows down because there’s not this impetus to meet the numbers on a day-to-day basis. Banks are not measuring the number of clients that visit their branches on a day-to-day basis in the way retailers do.

Amanda Connors: 

I found that interesting and not as dynamic. You have to put together four or five board papers and you spend your whole time putting papers together that might take three to six months to be signed off because it’s highly regulated. And that’s a good thing as well. If anything, I’ve always said that every major growth chapter in my career has required me to outgrow my previous version of myself.

Even though it was slower, it did get me to look at customer experience tracking, the competitive nature of the business, and the highly regulated industry that it was. It gave me more strategic thinking time and allowed me to harness my skills more commercially and strategically than in retailing. Sometimes in retail they say we were “cowboys” or “cowgirls” back then, just driving sales each week and sometimes not thinking about the brand, whereas financial services is disciplined. For me, it created a stronger, more strategic, commercially driven marketer.

Transforming Priceline and Building Communities

Darren Woolley: 

And it’s interesting because at the end of that process, you then jump back into retail, but very different retail. API, Australian Pharmaceutical Industries, had this retail brand called Priceline, which I remember at the time was “down and dirty” and discount. But during your time there, particularly around your focus on building community and loyalty, it really changed its brand positioning and reputation, didn’t it?

Amanda Connors: 

Well, it did. What attracted me there again was the opportunity to really make my mark. Each time I’ve gone in somewhere, it’s because it’s needed transformation, a focus on the customer, or to build e-commerce. Priceline was very different. It was pharmaceutical, beauty, and a franchise, which meant higher complexity. Pharmaceutical was highly regulated, beauty was consumer and fashion-driven, and the franchise industry meant you had owners of the business who you had to bring along on the journey.

That was an incredible opportunity for brand reinvention. I thrive on change and the chaos that comes with it. I moved across to this “$2 shop” that used to sell statues and toilet brushes, and it was trying to move from that to be a pharmacy. Pharmacy is about credibility and trust, and you’re not going to trust someone who sells toilet brushes and statues.

Going in there, I really focused on the customer. Women are the ones who were making all the health decisions. Wellness was a trend that was quite niche at that point, so I tapped into it because wellness and health are so important together. Priceline moved to a beauty and wellness destination, which was a real point of difference because Chemist Warehouse had just been introduced as the discount competitor.

I had to bring everyone on that journey of positioning to women about healthy beauty. I had to get suppliers on board like L’Oréal. When I first presented to them, they were not interested in being part of Priceline because they thought it was too much of a $2 shop. Two years later, they were beating down our doors because market share was going through the roof.

I also worked with the pharmacists to get them from behind the counter to think about customer service and vitamins. I put in place trackers so we could present to the board every month to show how brand health and customer experience were tracking against sales. Then we looked at developing a loyalty programme. It was Club Card at that stage, and we looked at creating a movement, not just a card—a loyalty movement about personalisation, creating desirability, and really getting to know those customers. In the end, we developed the Priceline Sister Club.

It ended up becoming about 40% of the business’s sales. It grew from just a magazine and a card to a strategic loyalty programme that created retention and upselling. Then we overlaid the Priceline Sisterhood, which was a cause-related marketing programme supporting women’s health issues. I founded that, and it’s still alive today. It was about creating an ecosystem: repositioning the brand, loyalty, cause-related marketing, and a whole visual identity for the stores. I used to call it “Bunnings for chicks” back then because that’s where you went to get all your stuff for a makeover.

Darren Woolley: The three roles you have talked about so far: Myer was management looking at sales often at the expense of brand; Westpac had products but no clear brand distinction; but the biggest challenge would have been API and Priceline. You joined an organisation that was a distribution point for retailers signed up for a discount brand, and you turned it into a valued brand that women trusted. Didn’t the Sister Club and the Sisterhood end up being one of the biggest women’s communities in Australia with millions of members?

Amanda Connors: 

We had seven million members. We won two ADMA awards, which was hilarious because we were up against Woolworths, and we got runner-up for this little small budget business in the first year.

API was what I called the “blue side,” all about the distribution of drugs and traditional pharmacy thinking. I went in at a time where all health was positioned to blokes or written by blokes. I’ll never forget how menopause was handled. There were ads from big drug companies featuring women in refrigerators. I had to have the conversation, and because I loved research and facts, I used that to convince them. My retail colleagues told me if I wanted to present any strategy to the pharmacists or leadership team, I must present facts because they are scientists. I researched the hell out of everything—quantitative, qualitative—to get the insights to get them over the line.

I put some of the franchisees on a panel and asked them who their main customers were. They said women. Women are the primary carers for their partners and children across all life stages. Once I got the pharmacists over the line, we could build the story and the segments.

I think where Priceline has gone wrong recently is that they lost their differentiated position. Chemist Warehouse came out and went after low-cost prescriptions and health. They shattered that whole thinking by selling in a warehouse environment. Priceline had its point of difference in beauty and wellness, but then I think it started chasing Chemist Warehouse and lost its differentiation.

Wellness, Founders, and Global Expansion

Darren Woolley: 

But isn’t the irony that Priceline and API got bought by Wesfarmers, which had Bunnings, and Bunnings did the same thing to hardware that Chemist Warehouse did to pharmacy? The great sleight of hand that Chemist Warehouse pulled was creating the illusion of being a warehouse when they were often just high street stores. They owned the category by painting them gaudy colours, in the same way Bunnings did with their big green and red boxes.

You left Priceline on a high because it was growing and you had taken the high ground from a marketing positioning point of view. But then you changed to Endota Spa, a brand that felt more gentle and relaxed. What was the attraction of Endota?

Amanda Connors: 

Meeting Melanie Gleeson, who still today inspires me. Her leadership style and her wanting someone to partner with her to create something from a “cottage business” was incredible. What really attracted me was the clear purpose. It didn’t need repositioning; I had to keep the heart of that brand. “Endota” is an indigenous word meaning beautiful. The values are all about intention, connection, and truth.

I knew the wellness economy was coming—it’s now something like a 5.2 trillion dollar business. I told Melanie, “What you’ve built is so powerful; we just need to harness that and commercialise it.” I did the brand identity, set up the marketing, and helped with the loyalty programme. We took the awareness from about 40% to 80%. I drove the commercial side, including creating our own green gift card using the Malachite stone symbol. I worked with Blackhawk to create Endota’s own gift card which is now in every supermarket. Now Endota is going to be an international brand.

Darren Woolley: 

It was your step into taking an Australian brand and setting it up for a global role.

Amanda Connors: 

It was. Each point in my career, I’ve had to grow a version of myself. Working with a founder was new for me and can be tricky because that’s their business, their heart, and their soul. My skill set had to change; it wasn’t just about board papers and budget sign-offs anymore.

Darren Woolley: 

Would it be fair to say you also have to become part therapist?

Amanda Connors: 

Yes, and adaptability is key. There were franchisees in this model too, but unlike the pharmacists who were scientists, these franchisees were often therapists. Presenting a repositioning—taking their social media away, consolidating websites, and moving to a branded house—to an emotionally led franchise network was very different to presenting to scientists.

It also set me up for my next role working for a global business, doTERRA. They were driven from the US and at that stage didn’t fully understand the Australian market. Their story of co-impact sourcing and helping communities was incredible, but they didn’t really believe in marketing to get that story out. I put together a business strategy, product strategy, and digital strategy for the Australian market. I was there for 12 to 18 months, did what I could, and then got tapped on the shoulder for the Total Beauty Network (TBN).

TBN was amazing, working with a founder on four brands. I looked after NPD (new product development) for all four Australian brands, selling across pharmacies and department stores globally. I set up a visionary collective of health-conscious beauty brands. We had “Designer Brands” for the mass market, “RAWW” for the youth surf culture, and “Inika” as the prestige 100% natural brand. Inika became the first plastic-neutral brand in the world. I also set up their e-commerce business which I grew by 355%; it ended up being a real revenue driver. It was such a great challenge because you have the “dupe” market, indie brands, and celebrities all competing.

Leadership and Navigating Change

Darren Woolley: 

How do you make sure you navigate your way through all this complexity and technological change?

Amanda Connors: 

I thrive on change and I am always really curious. I have a growth mindset; I don’t have that scarcity mentality where I think change is scary or I’m not going to be relevant. You’ve got to be adaptable, brave, and relentless. You’ve got to be relentlessly customer focused to survive and thrive.

If you’re going to create chaos through change, you’ve got to create clarity in that chaos. Define that strategic truth: know what your purpose is and know what your brand purpose is. Move quickly; you can’t take three to five years anymore. Get the insight and move on it. Align your leadership, bring people along on the journey emotionally, and then execute relentlessly.

It’s like driving a race car: you’ve got your plan and you’ve trained for it, but the driving conditions will change. You’ve got your vehicle, you know your destination, but you have to adapt.

Darren Woolley: 

That’s a really good metaphor because race car drivers are only as good as the team that keeps the car on the road. Everyone that’s worked with you speaks highly of your selfless leadership.

Amanda Connors: 

I absolutely believe in that. I did my MBA to refine my leadership and strategic strength, but it’s the people I’ve learnt from—consultants, agencies, and my team—who have been my real MBA. I listen to my team; I set the direction and give them the rope to do what they need to do.

You also need to be anchored in the past just enough to not make the same mistakes. There’s a reason why the rear-vision mirror is small and the windscreen is big; you need a big vision for the future. You need your team of drivers, and maybe eventually you become the coach and stop driving yourself.

Darren Woolley: 

Amanda, this has been a terrific conversation. We have totally run out of time, but thank you so much. It’s been absolutely inspirational hearing these lessons: the curiosity, the relentless discipline, and the focus on the consumer. Thank you for sharing it today on Managing Marketing.

Amanda Connors: 

Thank you, Darren. It’s been a joy, as always.

Darren Woolley:

As is my want, I have a question and that is, you’ve got all this amazing experience and all these fantastic runs on the board. So what’s next, Amanda?

The post Managing Marketing: How To Thrive With A Diverse Marketing Career appeared first on TrinityP3 Global Marketing Management Consultants.

This client engaged TrinityP3 to determine whether minimum investment thresholds should be established for their marketing allocations to ensure campaigns deliver a meaningful impact.

With finite budgets distributed across a diverse portfolio and increasing pressure for accountability, the core question was: are smaller, fragmented marketing investments diluting effectiveness, and should funding be consolidated to achieve stronger outcomes?

Client Strategic Requirement

The client required a framework to guide marketing investment decisions across a spectrum of small and large product categories. Specifically, they needed to:

• Determine viability: Identify whether a “minimum effective spend” level exists to trigger significant consumer behavioural change.
• Balance equity and ROI: Find a middle ground between supporting all business units and maximising the total Return on Investment (ROI).
• Improve operational efficiency: Avoid the inefficient allocation of funds to campaigns unlikely to achieve cut-through, which often require disproportionate internal management effort.
• Provide defensible guidance: Offer data-backed recommendations to stakeholders, including industry bodies and boards.
• Maintain strategic flexibility: Introduce discipline into funding decisions without excluding smaller, emerging segments.

A key tension was ensuring smaller business areas were not excluded, while still prioritising impact.

The Solution

TrinityP3 developed a multi-layered analytical and strategic approach to move the client from subjective spending to objective, performance-based allocation:

1.  Marketing effectiveness benchmarking

• Reviewed internal campaign performance data alongside external industry benchmarks identifying the lack of consistent measures of success to enable data driven comparisons.
• Identified challenges with measuring impact for smaller investment levels.
• Identified correlations between media spend, audience reach, and specific behavioural outcomes.
• Established indicative spend ranges required to achieve visibility in a cluttered media environment.

2. Threshold modelling framework Developed a model linking key variables to determine scenario-based minimum spend thresholds for investment:

• Audience size: The scale of the target demographic.
• Media dynamics: Current CPMs and reach-frequency curves.
• Market context: Category maturity and competitive noise.
• Objectives: Differentiating between top-of-funnel awareness and bottom-of-funnel conversion.

3. Portfolio segmentation approach. Categorised business units into tiers (e.g. Emerging, Growth, and Established) with differentiated investment strategies:

• Below-threshold funds: Redirected toward pooled models, co-investment opportunities, or high-efficiency digital channels.
• Above-threshold funds: Deployed in full-scale, integrated marketing campaigns.

4. Strategic alternatives for sub-scale budgets. Rather than simply cutting funding for smaller categories, alternative pathways were defined:

• Aggregation: Create clustered and collaborative product campaigns across complementary business categories for bigger impact.
• Pooling for greater opportunity: Pool budgets for stronger channel negotiation and bigger opportunity.
• Precision targeting: Utilise lower-cost, high-precision channels like trade marketing or hyper-targeted social media.

Outcomes & Recommendations

Key Findings. The analysis confirmed that sub-scale budgets risk generating “invisible” marketing and negligible behaviour change. Which reduces the overall portfolio ROI. However, TrinityP3 also noted that rigid, universal thresholds could unintentionally disadvantage niche or emerging sectors.

Final Recommendations:

1. Adopt flexible minimum spend guidelines: Introduce thresholds as strategic guardrails rather than hard rules, allowing for adjustments based on specific campaign goals.
2. Prioritise impact over distribution: Shift from a culture of “equal distribution” to one of “effectiveness-driven” allocation.
3. Introduce portfolio-level management: Manage marketing funds as a collective portfolio to leverage scale and shared insights.
4. Enable growth pathways: Support smaller segments through aggregation and alternative tactical models when individual thresholds cannot be met.
5. Develop a unified measure: Align to the overall strategic direction a key measure that communicates real value and that is PR’able in terms of advertising’ contribution to success.
6. Embed continuous optimisation: Track ROI against original threshold assumptions to refine benchmarks with real-world performance data over time.

Closing Insight

For the client, establishing minimum spend thresholds is less about setting hard limits and more about driving disciplined, impact-oriented investment decisions. The result is a balance between operational efficiency and strategic growth across a highly diverse marketing portfolio.

Co Authored by Dr Kate Gunby, Anton Buchner & Kylie Ridler-Dutton

The post Defining Minimum Spend Thresholds for Marketing Effectiveness – Case study appeared first on TrinityP3 Global Marketing Management Consultants.

The conversation delves into the impact of technology on journalism, the importance of maintaining integrity in news reporting, and the innovative approach Ticker Studio takes in creating engaging content for audiences. Ahron emphasizes the need for journalists to adapt to the changing media landscape while remaining committed to delivering credible and authentic news.

You can listen to the podcast here:

Follow Managing Marketing on Soundcloud, Podbean, TuneIn, Stitcher, Spotify, Apple Podcast and Amazon Podcasts.

The challenge is to make sure that every time I post something, no one can ever guess what my opinion is.

Transcription (Edited):

Darren:

Hi, I’m Darren Woolley, founder and CEO of Trinity P3 Marketing Management Consultancy. Welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners. If you’re enjoying the programme, please like, review, or share this episode to help spread the wisdom from our guests.

News journalism is under attack politically, economically, and behaviourally. Advertising budgets are moving away from traditional news media as more people access news via social media platforms, where algorithms are often designed to enrage and divide rather than inform. And yet, what makes the discipline of the news format so compelling and trustworthy? How can businesses better use this format to their advantage?

My guest today has built a career of more than 20 years, starting as a cadet journalist on Victoria’s Mornington Peninsula before broadcasting on radio and television, both here and overseas. Please welcome the founder and CEO of Ticker News and Ticker Studios, Ahron Young. Welcome, Ahron.

Ahron:

Hello, Darren. Usually, it’s the other way around; I’m interviewing you every week.

Darren:

It does feel quite awkward, as I expected you to do that introduction for yourself. You first mentioned that Rosebud was where you found the inspiration to be a journalist. Growing up on the Mornington Peninsula myself, I felt a natural affinity for that. I remember the local newspaper being delivered free each week with all the local news, like who won the netball or did well at the Red Hill show. What made you sit there and think, “I want to be a reporter that contributes to the community”?

Ahron:

I remember covering lawn bowls and photographing new mums at Rosebud Hospital every Tuesday. The day after the September 11 attacks, I had been up all night watching NBC’s coverage, yet my job as an 18-year-old cadet was to go to the hospital to take photos of newborn babies. It wasn’t necessarily that specific moment, but I’ve always loved television. There is a magic to it; it’s a huge machine where so much has to go right for it to work. It’s hugely powerful, and I love everything about it.

When I was eight, my mum moved us to a hippie commune in northern New South Wales to rebel against the mainstream. I rebelled by building a nightly news studio in my bedroom out of crepe paper and cardboard.

Darren:

That shows a true calling for journalism.

Ahron:

You’d be crazy to stay in this industry if you aren’t really into it. It’s relatively simple to enter, but hard to stay and make a career of it. Between the “bean counters” and the “Groundhog Day” nature of covering the same events, people eventually look for something more. Breaking news doesn’t happen when you’ve got a great haircut and nothing to do; it usually happens during a personal crisis when you look like hell. It attracts resilient people who can roll with the punches.

Darren:

Your career is in the 21st-century news business, which differs from the 20th century. The 20th century had a 24-hour cycle with one news bulletin and one newspaper edition a day. In the late 90s, CNN made news a constant presence, which social media has since accelerated.

Ahron:

Now it’s minute-by-minute. When I started in 2000 at a local newspaper, I had a weekly deadline. I’d write 40 stories and sit at the Dromana Magistrates Court, which was fascinating. Journalism gives you a front-row seat to history. You get to sit with a prime minister or a billionaire as if you matter, because to them, you do.

Darren:

Because you can shape how they appear to the public.

Ahron:

Correct, and that led me to Ticker.

Darren:

There’s immense pressure on news media now. The desire to be “always on” means reporters often respond to feeds rather than taking time to provide context and perspective.

Ahron:

I saw that transition while working in a radio newsroom. At 3AW, I had my first hourly deadlines. I still have recurring nightmares that the news theme is playing and I’m not in the studio. Back then, you might have an eight-hour shift to uncover a homicide or a protest. You had time to speak to people. Today, between social media and reels, it’s more like a checklist. You have to be very nimble to find time for good journalism.

Darren:

People are also talking about AI’s impact on journalism. While technology can identify trends, it will be a long time before it can provide human perspective and connection.

Ahron:

Nothing is more emotive than a breaking news story and a key interview. This morning, I watched Melinda Gates being interviewed about the Epstein files. That human connection between people regarding a big topic is something we are all addicted to; that will never change.

International Experience and Russia 

Darren:

You also worked overseas. Was it the Soviet Union or Russia in those days?

Ahron:

It was Russia by the time I arrived, but our building felt split; one side felt modern and the other—the payroll side—felt like the Soviet Union. I moved to the UK in 2005 as a foreign correspondent for various Australian organisations. I saw a job ad in The Guardian for a new English-language news channel. I applied and was called for an interview at Camden Dock for a presenter role.

I did a 45-minute audition. At the end, a woman looked me in the eye and asked in a thick Russian accent, “How would you feel about living in Moscow?”. A week later, I was one of 84 foreign journalists on a plane to Moscow. Hilarity and chaos ensued for the next 12 months.

Darren:

Relocating to Russia must have given you a unique perspective.

Ahron:

My dad asked if I was crazy, but my answer to life is usually “yes”. Upon arrival, they took us to a clinic for an HIV test because foreigners weren’t allowed to live there if they were positive. I was befriended by people from the British, Canadian, and American embassies. Looking back, I wonder if they were spies, but I was too naive to think about it then. Every weekend there were parties with ambassadors and CNN presenters. When I eventually returned to Melbourne, I was very bored.

Darren:

I can imagine; it’s a smaller town by comparison.

Ahron:

It was a fascinating place. When the snow thaws after a minus 37-degree winter, they find “snowdrops”—bodies of people who fell asleep walking home from the pub. You just walk past them in spring like it’s normal.

Journalism, Truth, and “Fake News” 

Darren:

What is your reaction to “fake news” and the systematic undermining of journalism’s credibility? It’s dangerous for democracy if the fourth estate is compromised.

Ahron:

This has always happened. No politician likes being questioned. Look at the censorship Keith Murdoch faced regarding Gallipoli. Governments never want to look bad. Today, government PR departments far outnumber journalists, but truth always finds a way out.

I felt uncomfortable towards the end of my time in Russia. We went there on the premise that it would be an answer to the BBC and CNN. Instead, they believed Western outlets were mouthpieces for their governments and that they should be the mouthpiece for the Kremlin. They used the “news channel” format as propaganda. They’d spend an hour criticising the West and then have a “Russia Focus” segment about pretty dogs in Siberia. These social media platforms weren’t created to enhance journalism; they were created to get eyeballs. The crazier you are, the more people watch. Building a brand on credibility in that environment is a challenge.

Darren:

A real journalist listens to the response and asks follow-up questions to dig deeper, rather than just performing a script. That is the difference between a presenter and a journalist.

Ahron:

Another threat is “activist journalists” who join organisations solely to push an opinion. This allows people to think everything is “fake news” because they witness patterns of bias. Journalists essentially become brands barracking for one side, which damages the reputation of reporting as being straight down the line.

Darren:

How do you maintain that balance?

Ahron:

I’m just a “pain in the ass”. My job isn’t to choose a side; it’s to hold up a mirror and ask tricky questions. For example, in Israel last year on a sponsored trip, the ministry was presenting on sustainability. I asked if the tanks and explosions in Gaza went towards or against their net-zero goals. You want to be cheekily honest and blunt when you have access.

The Launch and Evolution of Ticker 

Darren:

What led you to launch Ticker News? You’ve brought a specific news focus to this content outlet.

Ahron:

In 2002, I created a radio news service called Como Network News, selling bulletins to regional stations. I eventually got a job at 3AW because I was a thorn in their side. For a long time, billionaires controlled media because you needed satellites and towers.

When the NBN was announced, I realised streaming meant you could build your own network. I loved using technology to bypass satellite trucks. In 2019, I saw the success of Cheddar in the US, a business news network for the “post-cable” world. We launched Ticker with a Facebook Live from a coworking space on August 19, 2019. It has been tough, but the joy of evolving has served us well.

Darren:

It has since evolved into Ticker Studio. What’s the thinking there?

Ahron:

We realised that building a business based on passive 30-second commercials is not where the industry is heading. Since we didn’t have the investment for a subscription model, we made it a free product.

When we launched, I was inundated with emails from PRs. They needed a news environment for their clients that wasn’t as difficult to access as The Today Show. We created a “third way”—a win-win where viewers get free content that is interesting but never feels like a sales pitch, even if there is a commercial sponsor.

Journalism vs. Content Creation 

Darren:

Journalism is about asking the questions the audience is thinking. The news format reeks of credibility if executed properly.

Ahron:

I’m very careful. I spend most of my day putting the news together, and that is paid for by the small percentage of time where people buy their clips. We don’t charge people for interviews. Ticker is like a television version of LinkedIn. It’s a place where you can show what you do in an authoritative position.

Darren:

You have to be careful that people aren’t blatantly lying, as that would ruin the Ticker brand.

Ahron:

We do 20 interviews a day. Every morning, I receive an auto-generated email detailing every topic and guest background. I choose who I want to interview. I don’t want someone coming on to say the sky is green; it would ruin the reputation of everyone else. We celebrate business leaders doing magnificent things. If an interview feels like a sales pitch, I stop and say we need to do it again.

Darren:

You physically see audiences walk out when someone does a 25-minute sales pitch at industry events.

Ahron:

We work with clients to make them experts in their field. We have several commercial programmes where we record four episodes a month. By the time the guest gets to their car, we’ve sent them the content for social media. It’s a luxury item for businesses to appear as thought leaders, and many have seen a significant increase in sales because of it.

Darren:

Personally, I like the intellectual banter; you’re not just memorising lines.

Ahron:

My job is to be a connector between you and the audience. It has to be fun, but the audience still has to learn something.

Darren:

For any business leader looking to share their knowledge with credibility, what is the best way to engage with you?

Ahron:

We are a safe place for brands because we don’t take a political viewpoint. We listen to what the client wants and bring them into our guardrails. We like to have a “Mercedes Benz look with a Mazda engine”—reliable and high-quality but not high-maintenance. Our set design and graphics are professional grade, but we remain nimble and fast.

Darren:

Ahron, thank you for sharing today.

Ahron:

If anyone wants to get in touch, they can find me on LinkedIn or email me at ahron@tickernews.com. I’m just someone who likes making fun TV.

Darren:

One last question: who is the one person you’ve interviewed that most shocked you?

The post Managing Marketing: The Role Of News Media For Brands And Business appeared first on TrinityP3 Global Marketing Management Consultants.

At TrinityP3, we have spent decades identifying and eliminating the systemic waste that plagues modern marketing. This guide is designed to help you navigate the complexities of Marketing Transformation, leveraging our full suite of services to build a high-performance marketing machine.

Part 1: The Transformation Mandate – From Chaos to Clarity

Marketing transformation is often mischaracterised as a purely digital project. In reality, it is the structural realignment of your marketing engine. Our Marketing Transformation services address the “four horsemen” of marketing inefficiency: fragmented data, redundant technology, misaligned structures, and opaque agency relationships.

1.1 Marketing Operating Model Design

The “Operating Model” is the blueprint of your department. If you are a Fractional CMO, this is your first lever. You must ask: Is our structure designed to follow our strategy, or are we just following habit?

• The TrinityP3 Approach: We don’t believe in “best practice” because best practice is often just “common practice.” We design bespoke models—whether centralised, decentralised, or a “hub-and-spoke”—that ensure speed to market.
• Case Study Insight: We recently worked with a global asset management group to identify a scalable digital platform and a long-term digital agency partner. By aligning their operating model with their digital transformation goals, we moved them from a fragmented local approach to a streamlined global standard.

1.2 Capability Mapping and Gap Analysis

Productivity dies when you have the right strategy but the wrong skills.

• The Service: We perform objective audits of your internal team’s capabilities. This allows a Fractional CMO to identify where “upskilling” is needed versus where “outsourcing” is more efficient.

Part 2: Optimising the Agency Ecosystem

The agency roster is often the largest source of “leaking” productivity. Managing fifteen agencies for a mid-sized brand is not “specialisation”; it is a management nightmare.

2.1 Roster Rationalisation and Alignment

• The Problem: Overlapping capabilities lead to “turf wars” and duplicated costs.
• Case Study: FMCG Roster Alignment. A major FMCG client was operating with multiple agencies on sizeable retainers that didn’t work together. TrinityP3 used a Composite Pitch process to realign the roster. The result was not just cost savings, but a significant increase in the speed of creative execution and brand consistency across channels.

2.2 The “Pitch” Reimagined

As detailed in our Definitive Guide to Agency Selection, the traditional pitch is a “theatrical” exercise that rarely predicts long-term success.

• The TrinityP3 Methodology: We facilitate workshops that simulate real-world collaboration. We look for Chemistry, Capability, and Commercial alignment.
• Case Study: Higher Education. We helped a university stress-test the market for a media agency partner. Because the organisation was undergoing rapid change, we customised a “Speedy Pitch” process that delivered a partner within weeks rather than months, ensuring no momentum was lost in their peak recruitment season.

2.3 In-House Agency Services

In-housing is a powerful tool for productivity, but only if it’s managed like a business.

• The Service: We help you build the operational framework for in-house units. This includes setting up the internal workflow, the remuneration models (often missing in-house), and the technology required to compete with external agencies.
• Case Study: Financial Services. We resolved complex in-house agency issues for a major bank where the internal team was being treated as “order takers” rather than strategic partners. By implementing a clear internal SLA and workflow process, the in-house unit’s output increased by 40% within six months.

Part 3: Commercial Transparency and Media Value

You cannot manage what you cannot see. In the world of media and production, opacity is the enemy of performance.

3.1 Media Transparency and Supply Chain Audits

• The Problem: In the programmatic era, “hidden margins” and “tech taxes” mean a significant portion of your budget never reaches a consumer’s screen.
• The TrinityP3 Service: We provide independent media audits and contract reviews.
• Case Study: Media Contract Assessment. We worked with a client to audit their media agency contracts. We discovered that the contracts had “dated” significantly, leaving the client exposed to non-transparent practices. By renegotiating these terms, we recovered nearly 15% of the media spend to be reinvested in working media.

3.2 Remuneration and Commercial Benchmarking

Are you paying a fair price? Or are you paying for senior talent while receiving junior delivery?

• The Service: We use our proprietary Ad Cost Checker and financial benchmarking tools to ensure your agency fees are market-aligned. This ensures the agency is fairly compensated (to attract talent) while the brand receives the value it pays for.

Part 4: Technology, Data, and Prioritisation

Modern marketing is a technology-led discipline. However, most CMOs inherit a “Frankenstein” stack of disconnected tools.

4.1 MarTech and AdTech Alignment

• The Service: We audit your technology stack to ensure it serves your strategy.
• Case Study: Beverages Sector. A leading beverages advertiser asked, “Do we have the right MarTech in our stack?” TrinityP3 performed a full structural and process transformation, validating their tech path and identifying redundant platforms. This resulted in an immediate 12% reduction in tech licensing costs and improved data flow across their social and sales channels.

4.2 Marketing Prioritisation

Few marketers have the budget to do everything. We help you choose what not to do.

• The Service: We use a prioritisation framework to rank marketing activities by their impact on business growth.
• Case Study: Business Opportunity Prioritisation. We helped three leading organisations map their marketing deliverables against business outcomes. By cutting the “bottom 20%” of low-impact tactical work, we freed up resources for high-growth strategic initiatives.

Part 5: The “Evalu8ing” Factor – Driving Performance Through Relationships

Productivity is a human endeavour. If the relationship between your team and your agency is toxic or dysfunctional, no amount of technology will fix it.

Relationship Tracking (Evalu8ing)

• The Tool: Our proprietary Evalu8ing platform measures the health of the marketer-agency relationship.
• The Impact: By identifying friction points early (e.g., poor briefing or slow approvals), we can correct the course before the relationship breaks down.
• Case Study: A regional marketer used Evalu8ing to align their global and local teams. By quantifying the “collaboration gap,” they were able to implement training that reduced project turnaround times by 25%.

Part 6: Leading the Future – Sustainability in Marketing

The role of the CMO now includes ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) oversight.

• Sustainable Marketing Practices: We help brands measure and mitigate the carbon footprint of their media and production activities. This is about future-proofing your brand and ensuring that your productivity gains are sustainable in every sense of the word.

Summary of Services for the CMO & Fractional CMO

The Path to High Performance

For a marketing leader, the goal is not to “save money”—it is to optimise the investment. Whether you are a Fractional CMO needing to deliver an immediate turnaround or a permanent leader building a legacy, TrinityP3 provides the data, the frameworks, and the independent objectivity to make it happen.

We don’t just find you an agency; we find you a partnership. We don’t just audit your media; we regain your control. We don’t just “do” transformation; we build a high-performance marketing engine.

Ready to start?

Visit our Marketing Transformation Hub to learn more, or explore our Case Study Library to see the results we deliver for brands every day. Interested in confidentially discussing how TrinityP3 can assist you? Contact us about any of these services. 

The post The Definitive Guide to Marketing Productivity: A Strategic Roadmap for CMOs and Fractional Leaders appeared first on TrinityP3 Global Marketing Management Consultants.

John shares insights on how effective storytelling can create emotional connections, enhance brand recognition, and drive consumer engagement. The conversation also delves into the complexities of B2B marketing, the founder’s advantage in storytelling, and the need for consistency across different audience segments.

You can listen to the podcast here:

Follow Managing Marketing on Soundcloud, Podbean, TuneIn, Stitcher, Spotify, Apple Podcast and Amazon Podcasts.

We help sixty year old white bearded independent consultants living in Switzerland to do this.

Transcription (Edited):

Darren Woolley:

Hi, I’m Darren Woolley, founder and CEO of Trinity P3 Marketing Management Consultancy, and welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please like, review or share this episode to help spread the wisdom from our guests each week.

Compelling storytelling is a vital business skill. As we have discussed previously, many brands and agencies would describe themselves as excellent brand storytellers. My guest today believes that many brands are making a big mistake in the storytelling process by focusing purely on the consumer’s perception. Instead, he recommends that brands and their agencies should use “story building” when developing and telling a brand story.

To explain the difference between storytelling and story building, please welcome the author of the book Story Building: Your Brand from Their Standpoint, John Elbing. Welcome, John.

John Elbing:

Hi Darren, I’m very happy to be here and to talk about my favourite subject: storytelling. Well, story building, actually.

The Human Need for Stories

Darren Woolley:

Well, let’s start with storytelling before we get into the distinction between the two. From my perspective, storytelling is such an important human skill because it really is the way that we passed on knowledge for thousands of years before the invention of the printing press. Oral history was the way that human beings could pass on learnings and knowledge from one person to the next. It must be part of the very existence of being human—the ability to tell stories.

John Elbing:

I’m completely convinced. I think our brains evolved by processing stories, so we’re programmed to connect with them. We transfer information, but we also transfer emotion. We connect, and it is always through a story. There are too many people that try to talk about data and facts to convince people, but actually, the story is what connects.

Darren Woolley:

I wonder when in human history we suddenly re-locked this door and started to think that facts and rationality were the most compelling way of communicating, or even more importantly, persuading someone to a particular perspective. Storytelling has quite an emotional component which, as we know from behavioural psychology, is essential in engaging the audience and swaying their opinion.

John Elbing:

Yeah, I don’t know. It could be something around the Industrial Revolution when suddenly things were being systemised—Taylorism and all those things where it’s all about money, KPIs and ROI. But then you watch a show like Mad Men, and it’s all about stories.

Discovering the Power of Story Building

Darren Woolley:

Exactly. So John, when did you first start to realise the power of stories, or when did you start to really become interested in storytelling?

John Elbing:

I’ve been coaching startups and I got into a lot of methodologies. I studied design thinking, I have 100 different canvases and I use a lot of post-its. I would go into very specific exercises with companies and they would come out with all this insight and “shiny eyes”. And then Monday morning, they weren’t quite sure how that fit together or what to do.

I started reading about storytelling and I realised that forcing them to create a story—because stories are formulaic and have a framework—requires you to put things in a certain order. Suddenly they had to decide. Before, it was, “Hey, we do everything for everyone and it’s great”. Suddenly you have to say, “No, we’re talking to these people and not to those people”. You have to decide what is important and what is less important. Getting someone to admit some of their features are less important really creates a sense of focus. Before they even use the story for marketing, it serves them internally by creating coherence about what they are doing.

Darren Woolley:

It’s proven that story is the way we make sense of the world or concepts. I think a lot of people think that stories are just something that you tell, and the danger is it becomes more like a list of features than a cohesive, structured story.

John Elbing:

They say that there’s only about seven stories in the world; all the movies and novels you ever read can be boiled down to a certain number of structures that work, like “rags to riches”. Those formulas get us caught into fiction, but they also help in other kinds of communication.

The Methodology: Recognition, Perception and Projection

Darren Woolley:

When you’re working with a startup and the founders have come up with a story, what is the structure that you’re looking for?

John Elbing:

I’ve developed a methodology—not something completely new, as I’ve stolen from everywhere until I found something useful. One answer is the emotional part: as a listener, am I engaged in this story or does it look like a catalogue?

Part of the book is a mental model for when you encounter a brand. First, you have to recognise yourself in the brand. Only if you think, “They work with people like me,” are you going to look at what the offer is exactly—that is perception. Then, even if you’re interested in the offer, there’s a moment of doubt where you project yourself into what it’s going to be like.

I call that Recognition, Perception and Projection. Often companies only do “perception”—they only do the “here’s my product” thing. It’s up to you to figure out if it’s for you and to imagine what it’s going to be like. That creates so much hesitation. If I don’t recognise myself in your brand, I’ll just skip. You’re just one click away from your competitor.

The idea is to tell your customer’s story. They recognise themselves, imagine what it will be like and they think of this positive future. If you can build a story that brings people through those natural steps, you’ll get the right people to connect at the beginning because the story says, “We work with this kind of person”. If you don’t recognise yourself, you’re probably not the right client, which is a good thing—it leads to a better quality pipeline.

Selling a Transformation

Darren Woolley:

It’s interesting, this idea of recognition—that people can recognise something relevant to them. In advertising, there was always this idea of being “aspirational”—that the audience may be mid-market, but by adding this brand to their life, they can be transcended up to something better.

John Elbing:

I would put it this way: you walk down the street wanting a drink with a friend and you walk by some cafes without slowing down, but for others you say, “Ooh, that’s for me”. Recognition is a mix of your identity, aspirations and challenges.

If I’m an independent consultant looking for a CRM and a website says, “We’re the best CRM for teams,” they lost me immediately because they don’t work with people like me. Later in the story, there is the idea that we’re all selling a transformation. Look at the problems we solve, but then imagine what it’ll be like to step up. I’m not selling you a suit; I’m selling you the fact that you’re going to be a professional.

Darren Woolley:

You’re becoming a barista! No, I like the idea of transformation because Hollywood movies always have characters that start in one place and, through the telling of the story, transform into a better or different person. In advertising, that’s always, “Your life will be better, happier or sexier”.

John Elbing:

A lot of it can be translated into emotion. You won’t necessarily be rich, but you’ll be confident. At the beginning, you’re frustrated with your situation, and at the end, you’re going to be relieved. I’m not selling you a financial service; I’m selling you peace of mind instead of worry.

Story Building vs. Storytelling

Darren Woolley:

How would you define, in an elevator pitch, what story building is versus storytelling?

John Elbing:

Storytelling has become a buzzword and often boils down to how to tell your story better—putting a nice coat of paint on it. Story building is asking: what story should you tell?

In the book, I use a series of canvases where we step into the customer’s shoes to understand their aspirations and challenges. Then we look at the company and how it matches that to build the customer’s story. The sequence is important: you have to get them to recognise themselves first, then they’ll be interested in why you are different and what your offering is.

Then they think, “Yeah, but that’s going to be complicated. What is it going to be like?”. If I have a great CRM but I imagine I have to copy-paste from Excel and find things in my email, I won’t come back. If you can bring them through what it’s going to be like and how easy it will be, they’re already primed for the relationship. Once you’ve figured out the sequence, it can be a pitch, a website or a campaign.

Darren Woolley:

I find storytelling works very well as a sales technique when you’re one-on-one, because you can customise it to visual cues and insights from the conversation. It must be more difficult when the story exists in space and time, like a website.

John Elbing:

Well, I’ve found that’s the case. If I land on a website that says, “We help 60-year-old white-bearded independent consultants living in Switzerland,” I’m going to think, “Ooh, that’s me!”. If it’s too vague, I’ll probably skip because our attention span today is like a goldfish. A website that describes your ideal customer makes them feel seen.

You need a story for your company, but then you can have stories for specific segments or product ranges. Look at Nike—”Just Do It”. They target people who buy sneakers to run and people who buy them to look cool. Those are actually the same person—a 20-year-old student who has one pair to run and one pair to look cool. “Just Do It” connects with both because it’s an aspiration you can bring into any part of your life.

Putting the Customer Behind the Wheel

Darren Woolley:

The structure of Nike is about effort, focus and being victorious. They are very good at showing well-known sports stars as being very human, showing their foibles as well as their strengths.

Car advertising is similar; it’s not just the product, but those driving shots in beautiful scenery with perfect lighting. It puts you behind the wheel. It’s very much about “Projection,” isn’t it?

John Elbing:

Exactly. Whether it’s a family car or a sporty one, people think, “Ooh, that’s me, I could drive like that”. Even a telco website will show happy people having a picnic in a park. What does that have to do with the telephone? It’s saying, “Clients of this company look like that—they look like me”. You won’t project yourself into a picture of a building; people are important.

Owning a Category and Niche Positioning

Darren Woolley:

And then the “Perception” part is the fact that telcos are all about connection in the 21st century. So, it’s: Recognition (it’s relevant to me), Perception (here’s the promise) and Projection (I want that).

John Elbing:

People also want to put you in a box to compare you to something. If you own a category, that is a very powerful position. Think of energy drinks—Red Bull owns that category with a 50% market share. I do story building, not storytelling. Being different is important because there’s so much offer out there. If you say, “Normally it’s like this, but we do it differently,” that helps you stand out. I’m not sure companies talk about their difference enough.

Internal Alignment and the Trojan Horse of Strategy

Darren Woolley:

So, what is the emotional part of story building? What does it make people feel that gives it a benefit over storytelling?

John Elbing:

When I work with companies, I’ve found two ways this works. Some companies are in a hurry for a marketing message after a merger or a new product launch. We build one that’s structured, but story building is a bit of a “Trojan horse” for positioning strategy. They step back and realise, “Actually, we’re talking to these people, and we can niche down”. Others come in specifically to rethink their positioning, and I use story building as the tool. There are often “aha moments” where they see the structure and realise, “Yes, that is my customer”.

Darren Woolley:

What’s the emotion?

John Elbing:

It depends on the stage of the company. Established, 80-year-old companies see themselves from the “inside out”—they say, “I do this, isn’t it great?”. When they flip the script and look at themselves from the customer’s standpoint, they see how they fit into that world. It gives them focus and excitement.

Darren Woolley:

Your book’s subline, “Your Brand from Their Standpoint,” is really the promise. Story building starts with the customer and builds back in. Everyone wants to think their business is customer-centric, but it rarely is. When you’re inside the factory looking out, it’s very hard to look back in as a customer.

John Elbing:

Exactly. A side effect is team alignment; they build the story together. I had a company where 10 customer-facing people had 10 different answers for what they did. By working through this, they built a common story. One guy said, “I can finally tell my mum what we do here!”.

Story Building in B2B and Complex Organisations

Darren Woolley:

In B2B, there are a lot more people involved in decision-making, from the CEO down to operations. How does that complexity impact Recognition and Projection?

John Elbing:

Usually, we follow the value chain. You might be selling something to a company so they can better serve their own clients. You show how the end customer can be happier, which makes the person serving them better off. In sales, you can have a tech story, an ROI story and an operational story—all using the same structure. I’ve even done this with startups talking to investors; the company becomes the product and the investor becomes the customer. You can even use it with your spouse when deciding between the mountains or the beach!

Darren Woolley:

Where is the anchor for consistency across all these different stories? It has to be in “Perception,” right?

John Elbing:

Partly it’s a “proxy recognition” where you recognise your customer. If I’m selling to a business, I say, “Your customer has this problem, and we can help you help them better”. Or, for a tech person, you address their specific worries about security or privacy within the bigger story. You make them the hero because they set up a system that works.

Overcoming Internal Resistance

Darren Woolley:

Do startups get the story faster, or does size not matter?

John Elbing:

Size doesn’t matter. I’ve worked with deep tech startups where founders are so focused on the technical solution that they talk about their amazing AI but miss the story. Established companies often have “drift”—they’ve been telling the same story forever and it’s not the right one anymore.

The biggest hurdle is that a company is not the hero of the story; the customer is. You are just the guide—the Yoda to their Luke Skywalker. Getting them to shift that perspective and have that humility when they are so proud of what they do can be a challenge.

Darren Woolley:

Any “red flags” when talking to an organisation?

John Elbing:

If they have a rich customer experience, there are stories to tell. If I’m a plumber, the story might be as simple as, “We’re on time,” because the customer’s worry is having to take a full day off work.

I once worked with a nonprofit in water purification. They thought their problem was “people getting sick,” but we realised the actual problem they solved was “trucks getting stuck in the mud”. What keeps the customer up at night is often something different than what the company thinks.

Darren Woolley:

It’s been a fantastic conversation. Thank you, John Elbing, author of Story Building: Your Brand from Their Standpoint.

John Elbing:

Thank you, Darren.

Darren Woolley:

One last question before we finish: what’s your favourite brand story of all time?

The post Managing Marketing: Storybuilding As A Technique For Building Brand Stories appeared first on TrinityP3 Global Marketing Management Consultants.

Trust in the pitch isn’t earned, because three hours of polished theatre isn’t enough time to prove character. And it isn’t a gift, because no marketer hands over a multimillion-dollar budget as an act of charity.

In reality, trust is a loan.

It is a professional line of credit extended by the marketer to the agency. The pitch isn’t the finish line where the trophy is handed over; it is simply the credit check. The moment the agency is appointed, the agency isn’t “set”, instead they are in deep “trust debt.” The success of the partnership depends entirely on how the agency chooses to repay that debt, and how the marketer manages the “interest” during the onboarding and the inevitable crises that follow.

The Myth of the “Earned” Pitch

Agencies love to believe they earn trust during the tender process. They point to their strategic rigour, their creative flair, and the fact that they managed to get the transition plan into a tidy PowerPoint. But let’s be honest: a pitch is a performance. It is a highly curated, rehearsed version of reality, no matter how hard we try to make it more like a test drive.

As a marketer, you aren’t seeing how the agency behaves when a server goes down at 2 am or how they handle a creative director’s mid-year burnout. You are seeing their best selves. You can’t “earn” life-long trust in a boardroom any more than you can earn a mortgage by wearing a nice suit to the bank. You are merely proving you are a “good risk.”

The marketer is the lender here. By selecting an agency, they are taking a significant portion of their own professional capital – their reputation within the business, their job security, and their brand’s health – and “loaning” it to the agency. This is a high-stakes transaction where the agency starts with a balance to settle.

The Marketer’s Responsibility: Setting the Terms of the Loan

If trust is a loan, then the marketer acts as the bank manager. And just as a bank shouldn’t lend money without a clear set of terms, a marketer shouldn’t enter a pitch without a framework that allows for a genuine assessment of “creditworthiness.”

This is where many tenders fall over. If the environment is purely transactional, or worse, adversarial, the marketer isn’t actually assessing trust; they are assessing survival instincts. To move beyond the theatre, the marketer must create an environment where the agency’s true character can be glimpsed.

This is why we developed the TrinityP3 Tender Charter. It isn’t just a set of rules for “being nice”; it is a framework for professional integrity. When a marketer commits to a transparent, fair, and respectful process, they are effectively setting the “interest rate” for the trust loan.

The Charter ensures that the agency has the information they need to be honest. If the marketer is secretive or shifts the goalposts mid-pitch, they are forcing the agency to “over-borrow” on trust just to stay in the game. A fair process allows the marketer to see if the agency is willing to be a partner or just a vendor looking for a quick win.

The Onboarding Phase: Making the First Repayments

Once the appointment is made, the agency enters the “repayment” phase. The mistake many agencies make is thinking the hard work is over. In truth, the first ninety days are the most critical period of debt collection.

During onboarding, every interaction is a micro-repayment. Does the agency meet the administrative deadlines? Do they take the time to learn the internal politics of the client’s organisation? Do they respect the brand guidelines that were “loaned” to them?

In this phase, “interest” is paid through reliability. The marketer is watching for the first sign of “default.” If the agency promised a senior team during the pitch but shows up with juniors on day one, they have effectively missed their first payment. The trust line of credit is immediately slashed, and the marketer moves into “defensive” management mode.

The First Crisis: When the Debt is Called In

In the lifecycle of any agency relationship, there will be a moment when the “market crashes.” A campaign fails to move the needle, a competitor launches a devastating counter-attack, or a PR nightmare erupts.

This is the moment the trust loan is truly tested.

Philosophically, this is where the “principal-agent problem” rears its head. The agency (the agent) wants to protect its fee and its reputation. The marketer (the principal) wants to save the brand. If the agency hides data, shifts blame, or goes silent, they are defaulting on the loan.

However, if the agency leans in with radical transparency – saying, “Here is what went wrong, here is the cost, and here is how we fix it” – they are paying back the loan with high-value interest. Trust is solidified not when things are going well, but when the agency proves they are willing to sacrifice their own short-term comfort for the marketer’s long-term health.

The Risks of “Zero Trust” Procurement

We also have to acknowledge the opposite extreme: the “Zero Trust” environment. This is often driven by procurement departments that treat agencies like office furniture. In these scenarios, the “loan” is so small and the oversight so heavy that the agency has no room to breathe.

When a marketer treats an agency as an untrustworthy debtor from day one – demanding exhaustive audits of every hour spent and refusing to share business-critical information – the agency stops being a partner and starts being a servant. You cannot expect a high return on a loan if you never actually let the borrower use the capital.

The TrinityP3 Tender Charter explicitly guards against this. By advocating for a “value-based” rather than “cost-based” approach, we encourage marketers to give a significant enough loan of trust that the agency has the “liquidity” to be creative and proactive.

How to Balance the Books

At the end of the day, a healthy marketer-agency relationship is one where the books eventually balance. Over time, as the agency pays back that initial loan through consistent performance and honesty, the “debt” fades and a genuine partnership emerges.

But we must stop pretending that this happens in the pitch room. The pitch is merely the signing of the loan documents. The agency leaves that room with a massive obligation to the marketer’s brand and reputation.

For the agency, the message is simple: Don’t treat the win as a gift. Treat it as a debt you must work every day to repay.

For the marketer, the responsibility is equally clear: Use a framework like the Tender Charter to ensure you are lending your trust to the right people, and then give them the space to pay you back with the interest your brand deserves.

After all, in this industry, the only thing worse than being in debt is being a bad lender.

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