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	<title>Comments for Uncommon Descent</title>
	
	<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com</link>
	<description>Serving The Intelligent Design Community</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:49:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by CLAVDIVS</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420199</link>
		<dc:creator>CLAVDIVS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420199</guid>
		<description>nullasalus is right -- some interpretations of QM allow that a particular entity may neither exist, nor not-exist, but is in a superposition of existence and non-existence.

At high-school I learned that a single photon really can go through two separate slits at the same time. Does the photon exist, or not-exist, at slit 1? The answer is: neither. To my mind this does cast some doubt on the law of non contradiction.

As far as I recall the only interpretation of QM that allows all entities to actually exist is the "many-worlds" interpretation. This really means "infinite worlds", as I understand it, which seems to me to be as much of a metaphysical absurdity as violating the LNC.

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nullasalus is right &#8212; some interpretations of QM allow that a particular entity may neither exist, nor not-exist, but is in a superposition of existence and non-existence.</p>
<p>At high-school I learned that a single photon really can go through two separate slits at the same time. Does the photon exist, or not-exist, at slit 1? The answer is: neither. To my mind this does cast some doubt on the law of non contradiction.</p>
<p>As far as I recall the only interpretation of QM that allows all entities to actually exist is the &#8220;many-worlds&#8221; interpretation. This really means &#8220;infinite worlds&#8221;, as I understand it, which seems to me to be as much of a metaphysical absurdity as violating the LNC.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>

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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by Petrushka</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420198</link>
		<dc:creator>Petrushka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420198</guid>
		<description>Evaluating evidence without axioms? Probably not.

But evidence can lead to modifying ones axioms. Plane geometry, for example, does not describe reality on the surface of sphere, and more complex geometries are required for other surfaces.

The axioms required to rationalize quantum superposition and quantum tunnelling are not the same as the axioms we derive from everyday experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evaluating evidence without axioms? Probably not.</p>
<p>But evidence can lead to modifying ones axioms. Plane geometry, for example, does not describe reality on the surface of sphere, and more complex geometries are required for other surfaces.</p>
<p>The axioms required to rationalize quantum superposition and quantum tunnelling are not the same as the axioms we derive from everyday experience.</p>

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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420197</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420197</guid>
		<description>Petrushka:&lt;blockquote&gt;If one axiomatically asserts that Jupiter exists, then it cannot axiomatically not exist.

But physical objects do not exist axiomatically. Their existence is assumed as a result of empirical evidence, and physics currently suggests that such evidence is probabilistic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Nominated for the "Elizabeth Liddle Memorial Goal Post Redefinition" award.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Petrushka:<br />
<blockquote>If one axiomatically asserts that Jupiter exists, then it cannot axiomatically not exist.</p>
<p>But physical objects do not exist axiomatically. Their existence is assumed as a result of empirical evidence, and physics currently suggests that such evidence is probabilistic.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nominated for the &#8220;Elizabeth Liddle Memorial Goal Post Redefinition&#8221; award.</p>

<p><a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/-NkZZk77bC7mI5gwupsaeN8nbhk/0/da"><img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/-NkZZk77bC7mI5gwupsaeN8nbhk/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"></img></a><br/>
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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by nullasalus</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420196</link>
		<dc:creator>nullasalus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420196</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But physical objects do not exist axiomatically. Their existence is assumed as a result of empirical evidence, and physics currently suggests that such evidence is probabilistic.&lt;/i&gt;

So you're evaluating the evidence without any axioms?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But physical objects do not exist axiomatically. Their existence is assumed as a result of empirical evidence, and physics currently suggests that such evidence is probabilistic.</i></p>
<p>So you&#8217;re evaluating the evidence without any axioms?</p>

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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by mike1962</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420195</link>
		<dc:creator>mike1962</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420195</guid>
		<description>Interpretations of QM are not QM. Schrodinger came up with his famous Cat to show why the Copenhagen interpretation violated our common sense and intuition. But the bottom line is, the interpretations are not QM. Just want to make that crystal clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interpretations of QM are not QM. Schrodinger came up with his famous Cat to show why the Copenhagen interpretation violated our common sense and intuition. But the bottom line is, the interpretations are not QM. Just want to make that crystal clear.</p>

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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by Petrushka</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420194</link>
		<dc:creator>Petrushka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420194</guid>
		<description>LNC is a rule within formal logic. It is axiomatic. What is the point of discussing whether it is true or false?

As an axiom it is irrelevant to matters decided empirically.

If one axiomatically asserts that Jupiter exists, then it cannot axiomatically not exist.

But physical objects do not exist axiomatically. Their existence is assumed as a result of empirical evidence, and physics currently suggests that such evidence is probabilistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LNC is a rule within formal logic. It is axiomatic. What is the point of discussing whether it is true or false?</p>
<p>As an axiom it is irrelevant to matters decided empirically.</p>
<p>If one axiomatically asserts that Jupiter exists, then it cannot axiomatically not exist.</p>
<p>But physical objects do not exist axiomatically. Their existence is assumed as a result of empirical evidence, and physics currently suggests that such evidence is probabilistic.</p>

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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by nullasalus</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420193</link>
		<dc:creator>nullasalus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420193</guid>
		<description>Mike,

My understanding is that there are interpretations of quantum mechanics that may say something like that, but there's also a problem with actually deciding between any of those interpretations.

The favorite response, if not interpretation, I've heard about the whole thing is 'shut up and calculate'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>My understanding is that there are interpretations of quantum mechanics that may say something like that, but there&#8217;s also a problem with actually deciding between any of those interpretations.</p>
<p>The favorite response, if not interpretation, I&#8217;ve heard about the whole thing is &#8216;shut up and calculate&#8217;.</p>

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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by mike1962</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420192</link>
		<dc:creator>mike1962</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420192</guid>
		<description>Superposition is about probabilities. I.e, it's about what *we* can say about, say, the states (e.g, position and volocity) of a particle. There's &lt;b&gt;nothing&lt;/b&gt; whatsoever in any actual equation of any branch of QM that says "an entity (take your pick) can exist and not exist at the same time." Anyone who says otherwise is full of crap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Superposition is about probabilities. I.e, it&#8217;s about what *we* can say about, say, the states (e.g, position and volocity) of a particle. There&#8217;s <b>nothing</b> whatsoever in any actual equation of any branch of QM that says &#8220;an entity (take your pick) can exist and not exist at the same time.&#8221; Anyone who says otherwise is full of crap.</p>

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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by CannuckianYankee</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420191</link>
		<dc:creator>CannuckianYankee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420191</guid>
		<description>Bruce,

You seem to be the same person who made this same argument on this blog a year or so ago.  Or does that Bruce David in your mind, not exist anymore?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce,</p>
<p>You seem to be the same person who made this same argument on this blog a year or so ago.  Or does that Bruce David in your mind, not exist anymore?</p>

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		<title>Comment on LNC: “Yes or No” by Bruce David</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lnc-yes-or-no/comment-page-1/#comment-420190</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=33415#comment-420190</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Incidentally, notice that when describing Jupiter’s lack of existence Bruce David had to refer back to Jupiter by saying “its” constituent particles. In other words, there is a concrete, accepted concept of the thing observed — the “it” — that we are calling Jupiter. This back door incorporation of the objective reality always occurs when someone tries to deny objective reality — they have to describe the lack of reality by self-referencing back to the very thing the existence of which is being denied.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
When communicating in this blog, I am constrained to the use of the English language. This does not imply any particular metaphysical position, only that I must use the structures inherent in language to communicate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Incidentally, notice that when describing Jupiter’s lack of existence Bruce David had to refer back to Jupiter by saying “its” constituent particles. In other words, there is a concrete, accepted concept of the thing observed — the “it” — that we are calling Jupiter. This back door incorporation of the objective reality always occurs when someone tries to deny objective reality — they have to describe the lack of reality by self-referencing back to the very thing the existence of which is being denied.</p></blockquote>
<p>When communicating in this blog, I am constrained to the use of the English language. This does not imply any particular metaphysical position, only that I must use the structures inherent in language to communicate.</p>

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