World of Washers

Rotten service from Best Buy

2009-12-06T20:21:00.000-05:00

Black Friday Deals

2009-11-22T18:37:00.000-05:00

Home Depot
Maytag Centennial washer and electric dryer $578
LG frontload washer and electric dryer $998

Lowes
Whirlpool top load washer with electric dryer: $598
Samsung frontload washer and electric dryer: $898

Best Buy
LG frontload washer: $349.99

Leave a comment below for deals you have seen!

Reader Mail: Marta is looking for a simple frontload washer

2009-09-12T20:08:00.006-04:00

Marta writes:

Hi Brad,

I'm researching and researching and would like to buy a front loader, but I don't need bells and whistles (it's me, my husband, and one son) - just clean clothes and reliability. I would forego extras for a lower price. Is there a reliable front loader to be had for anything close to the prices for top loading machines? Will I be able to buy a washer/dryer for around $1200?

My response:

Marta,

Thank you for writing!

To answer your question, yes, you can get a frontload washer and dryer for around $1200 that will do a fine job of cleaning your clothes. Reliability? Well, that is one area that is getting difficult to predict anymore.

I wrote in a previous post about the Amana frontload washer, made by Samsung. If you are looking for a bargain, then this is definitely it. The washer and electric dryer sell for just over $1100 at Home Depot, and are available for slightly more online. You may want to check one of your local dealers to see if they offer this washer, and for how much.

I like this washer because it offers decent capacity and efficiency at a very reasonable pricepoint. It does not have a lot of the bells and whistles that more expensive washers and dryers offer, but I guess that's probably the point, right?

There are a lot of very favorable reviews available at the Home Depot website. There are also a few reviews at epinions.

Frigidaire offers several frontload washers starting at $600. Samsung and LG both offers washers starting around $800.

Definitely take a look at the Amana set. I think you will like what you see. Let me know if you have anymore questions.

~Brad

Reader Mail: Margaret needs a new washer

2009-09-08T08:00:00.001-04:00

Margaret writes:

I just found your web page and thought it was wonderful however I couldn’t find anything that might answer my question. I have a Whirlpool Washer that is 13 years old. It was working fine up until last night when I found the lid switch has rusted all around the area that holds it so that it no longer operates. My son helped me rig up a temporary solution with some legos last night but by this morning the rust gave way to more area so the legos no longer work. I do realize I can purchase a new lid switch even though what I have actually works if I want to stand and hold it during the entire wash but I’m thinking with the amount of rust all around the top it might just be time for a new washer.

I bought a new dryer about 3 years ago which was a very unreliable Maytag and have spent lots of money on repairs but it currently is working so I’m not quite ready to buy another. My laundry room is on the second floor and I need to go with top loaders for if no other reason, my washer dryer connections are reversed with the gas lines run with a build out into a closet which to make a long story short is easier not to try and switch.

So, finally my question – I am so totally lost now about washers I’m about at my wits end reading and getting more and more confused with all that I read. With it being Labor Day there are lots of sales and as my washer really doesn’t actually work properly I think I need to get moving on this. But I don’t understand what is a reliable good washer these days. At first I thought the fisher Paykel were good but now it doesn’t seem so. I don’t need lots of fancy things but it would be nice to have the energy efficiency and won’t break down like my dryer. The washer I have now just says Whirlpool Super Capacity Plus Supreme but doesn’t say what its capacity is but I have washed a king size comforter and it did fine. So, I would like a washer at least the same size – its width is 26 ½ and the height is 36 ½, if that helps at all.

Can you help me? It seems like most information I find are all on the front loaders. My main problem with them is the door are not switchable and with my connections being reversed it just won’t work. Thank you so much for any help you can give me.

Margaret

My response:

Margaret,

Thank you very much for writing.

If you are looking for a top load washer, and reliability is important, then I would encourage you to take a look at Speed Queen. These washers are built like the Maytags of old used to be built like, and they are one of the few appliances anymore that come with a full three year warranty. These machines are simply built like tanks, and they are easy to fix if something should go wrong.

You will not find Speed Queen at any of the national retailers. You will need to find a local dealer. Even though they are harder to find, and even though they cost a bit more than a typical top load washer, they are worth the investment.

If you are looking for energy efficiency, then I would encourage you to look at the GE Profile Harmony. I know many people who own this washer and are happy with it, and it is the only high-efficiency top load washer I would recommend. It has a lot of bells and whistles, which most people do not need, but it washers well and will use less water and energy.

For frontload washers, there is at least one washer on the market that has a reversible door, and that is made by Asko, a European company. Asko offers the small, Euro-sized washers, but they also make a model made specifically for the American market with the bigger capacity. Again, you will need to seek out Asko at a local dealer, as they are not in any of the national chains.

Aside from the above, if you decide to go with another Whirlpool washer (or even a Maytag, as they are owned by Whirlpool and are of Whirlpool design) then you will get a decent washer for a decent price. Just stay around the $400 price-point and you will be fine. Whirlpool design is proven, and there is no shortage of technicians available to work on them.

So take a look at Speed Queen first. I think you will be happy with what you see.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

~Brad

Margaret replied:

Brad,

Wow. Thank you so much for all this information. I can’t begin to tell you how much I appreciate this. Trying to research on the internet can be great but if there are a lot of choices and too much information then it is just overwhelming and frustrating. You have helped me tremendously and I will start looking for local dealers.

Again Thank You!

Margaret

Reader Mail: Lori and Eric fixed their washer!

2009-09-07T17:04:00.004-04:00

From Lori:

Hi Brad,

I just wanted to tell you I printed out your directions to fix that darn f51 code. (Note: the instructions Lori is referring to are in this post.) We've had our Cabrio just under 2 years and have been having the f51 for about 7months now. I happened upon your blog and was happy that others share in my problem, but then again got angry that so many folks are having the problem!! So, my husband and I decided to tackle it today. I'm pretty handy and my husband deals with buttons and levers as he is a commercial airline pilot. We followed your directions and had it knocked out in about 30 - 45 mins. I've washed about 7 loads since the repair and haven't had the error one time. Also, it may just be me but I think it is running better. The clothes seem to be rinsing and spinning better and are just damp at the end of the cycle instead of still wet. I appreciate your help and savings of the $575.00 that Appliance Doctor wanted to charge us!

~Lori and Eric

My response:

Hi Lori and Eric!

I am very happy that you were able to fix your machine without having to pay for an expensive service call. But I can't take credit for anything more than regurgitating info someone else took the time to write. I have had a lot of positive feedback from people like you who have found Mr. Baxter's information helpful. I hope it proves to be a permanent fix.

Best Wishes,
Brad

Lori replied back with the following:

I did realize my mistake after I had already sent the email! If you have any contact with Mr. Baxter, please forward my email or post it!! I meant to add that all we did was unplug and plug the wires back into the housing( I can't remember what it's called now, lol) 3x. We didn't tackle the full repair. Since I have emailed you we still haven't had the error! :D

Have your lost your shipping bolts? There is a solution.

2009-08-12T18:26:00.002-04:00

If you have purchased a washing machine, you may have noticed that you (or the delivery crew) needed to remove some hardware from the washer after setting the unit in place. In some cases it is a single, long rod through the bottom of the washer. In others it is a series of bolts through the back of the machine. In other cases, it may be as simple as a foam insert in the top of the wash basket or at the base of the machine.

Regardless of the hardware used by the manufacturers, it all serves a single purpose: to stabilize the drum while the machine is in transit to prevent damage to the machine.

Pretty simple. The problems, though, arise when the hardware is discarded after installation, and then you have to end up moving the machine a few years later. Do you still have the original hardware that was included? Did the delivery personnel leave it for you, or did they take it with them? If they gave it to you, did you keep it, or throw it out not realizing you may need it in the future? According to this complaint on My3cents.com, it is Sears policy to take away the shipping bolts after making a delivery.

The importance of this hardware cannot be understated. Appliances can go through a lot of abuse when being moved, and suspension damage can easily occur if washing machine drums are not properly stabilized. I have heard of numerous instances, especially in frontload washers, where the machine was moved without the drum properly secured. This puts a tremendous strain on the suspension, and can lead to excessive vibration or even a machine that simply will not work properly.

A few months ago, I was contacted by a representative of Litco, a company which sells supplies to moving companies. They had invented a device which could be used to properly secure the drum in virtually any washing machine. The device is genius in its simplicity, and I am convinced that this product will provide the protection required to safely transport machines while preventing any internal damage.

Check out one of the videos below, or head on over to Litco's website for more information. If you decide you want to place an order, you can call them directly at (877) 284-5043.

Remember, it's a one-fit kit, so it will work for your washing machine.

Note: Although I have written a post about this product, and have also displayed a Litkit ad on my page, I have not been paid for this testimony. I firmly believe in this product.

Looking for a deal?

2009-08-09T17:43:00.004-04:00

So I was wandering around Craigslist today, just window shopping. I am actually in the market for a new washer and dryer (despite the fact that I write about these things, I can't really afford a brand-spanking new set), and decided to see what is available. I knew there would be a decent selection, since I sold my Maytag Neptune set on Craiglist several years ago. I had it sold within an hour of posting the ad!

As I was perusing these ads, I found myself thinking about someone who is really hard-up for a new washer or dryer. Maybe a family with one (or both) adults unemployed need to replace a machine that recently took a dump. Or in my case, I could probably swing a decent new set, but am finding myself on shaky ground employment-wise, and spending $700 or $800 would not be a wise decision. Regardless of the reason, there are some great finds on Craigslist. Below are a few from my neck of the woods.

Kenmore Elite HE3 Electric Dryer - $400
2003 Kenmore Elite HE3 Electric Dryer. Color - Bisque. Includes 15 in. pedestal. Similar to front load washing machine. Very Good condition.

Maytag Electric Washer - $100
We have been using this washer for the past five years. The previous owners sold both the washer and dryer during the sale of the home. They owned it for seven years and had purchased it brand new. There are no issues at all with this great machine. Currently, we are remodeling the home and a lot of new appliances are being bought to replace some of the older ones. That is the only reason this is up for sale. We have yet to buy a new washer and dryer but may be doing so in the next coming days. Model #LAT8840BAW made in newton, IA. Very reliable washer and super load capacity.
(Note: This is a Maytag from when they still made great machines. I'd buy it!)
Old Whirlpool Washer - $40
An old Imperial Seventy Model Whirlpool Washer.
It has 2 speeds- 5 cycles
Heavy Duty
Super Capacity (BIG)
It is not pretty, but it works well and I'm only asking $40 for it.
(Note: I currently spend ten bucks a week at the laundromat. I'd have my money back in a month!)

Washer/Dryer Stackable and Frontloading - $200
I'm selling a Danby Designer Washer/Dryer. They're great for Apartments or Townhouses or any place where space is an issue. I bought them a year and a half ago, but six months ago the "heating element" went bad. The past is approximately 40 dollars. I was in the process of moving so, I had never gotten it fixed. It spins, just no heat. Other than that. They both work great.
(Note: Go over to GardenWeb and do a search for "Danby", see what the laundry nerds have to say about this machine. They love it!)

Electric Whirlpool Washer and Dryer Set - $100
I will be moving this weekend and need to part with this set by then. This set is chestnut brown super capacity, the washer is 2 speed 9 cycles, and the dryer is 6 cycles infinite temp. Both in excellent shape with some minor scratches. A good deal for an xlrg capacity. I purchased 1 yr ago from a used furniture store with no problems whatsoever.

Occasionally, you will find some really good deals, like someone selling a $2000 set that is only a year old because the wifey wanted to upgrade to a cooler color. Or maybe someone facing foreclosure that is having a fire sale.

If you look at the right time, there are some great deals to be had!

Reader Mail: Cabrio seal failure

2009-07-18T10:43:00.005-04:00

From paw3:

"I hope you have seen my problem on the Cabrio. Of course, it is out of warranty. At 10 minutes left in a cycle, the machine becomes unbalanced and shuts off. No amount of repositioning the clothes will get it work. Finally called a repairman and he tells me, seal is bad, water in motor with rust and it will be over $800 to fix. I am so disappointed as I have always trusted Whirlpool. If you have seen this problem please let me know. I have found after calling 3 repair people that it is very hard to find someone who knows how to work on these things. As far as I am concerned, it is like all the people have said... THIS MACHINE IS A PIECE OF CRAP AND SHOULD NOT BE SOLD ANYMORE. Thanks for the web site. By the way, the repairman was looking for the F51 code and said it did appear at different times during the cyle. Thanks"

My response:

I have heard of this problem. It is not nearly as common as the other problems with these washers, but there are other people out there who have had the same problem.

I think this thread at the GardenWeb Laundry Forum is related to your problem. Check it out. And even though the warranty has expired, I would not hesitate to contact Whirlpool about this (assuming you haven't already). There is no reason the tub seal should have failed already.

Let me know how your call with Whirlpool goes.

~Brad

Reader response:

Thank-you so much for writing back so soon. I honestly didn't think I would get a response.

I called Whirlpool and could not believe the response I got. I explained to them the problem I had and how disappointed I was. I have never bought anything but Whirlpool products and have always gotten such good service out of them. Anyway, they told me as a customer service they were going to repair my washer. I was so happy and agreed to pay the labor. They put me on hold for a few moments and then came back and said they would pay the entire cost, parts and labor and someone would be out on Tuesday to do the service.

I must say, even if they had not been willing to pay, the lady I talked with was very nice and patient with me trying to explain to her what I have been through trying to get this washer fixed. I had given up on the washer and had already purchased another one but had not picked it up yet. So, I was able to return the one I had just purchased which was fantastic.

So Brad, again, thank-you for your suggestion to call them and for the link you sent of other people having this same problem with fairly new washers. Since it was out of warranty I really didn't expect any help. This restores my faith a little in big business doing the right thing. Brad, your a jewel.

My response:

I am very happy that Whirlpool came through for you on this. But the repair is not complete yet, so let's see what happens Tuesday when they come to do the repair. I am hoping that they will bring all of the parts necessary to finish the job, since the washer was already looked at.

Please let me know what happens Tuesday, and whether or not you have a fully-functional washer when they leave.

And thank you very much for the compliment!

~Brad

Reader Mail: A Lesson in Chemistry Updated

2009-07-11T18:09:00.001-04:00

From George:

"Just found your blog tonight after buying a GE front loader set tonight to replace my Kenmore (Whirlpool) HE3 Elite that self destructed this week after almost six years of use. The spider assembly that holds the drive shaft to the basket apparently is made of aluminum and corrodes in the presence of detergent. When it blew at 900 RPM it took out the drum and the water pump. Found several web pages where the same thing has happened to others. As you seem to know, neither Sears nor Whirlpool seems to have any sort of failure analysis department or any interest in possible design problems. When I called the Whirlpool Corporate office in Michigan they told me that they have no access to their Engineering or Production departments. Making a critical part out of a reactive metal is just stupid from an engineering point of view. I could not find anyone that would tell me if this part is common to some or all of their brands of washers. I’ll send you picture of my corroded basket for giggles.

"Keep up the good work"

George then includes the picture below.

George then follows up with another email:

"Brad,

"I have an update for you. I sent an Email to Whirlpools CEO Mr. Fettig and to my great surprise he had some one call me back this week. They were very interested in my photos of the damage. I got a call back telling me that the damage was caused by the reaction of chlorine on the metal. Who knew that a washer might be exposed to chlorine?!! They said that most front loader manufacturers have had this problem in the past and that they are now using a different alloy to make the spider assembly. I got an apology for the trouble I’ve had and was offered a free countertop appliance from their Kitchenaid line of products. None of which I really need or want. They thanked me for my concerns about their products and assured me that they follow up on all customer complaints. I did mention the trouble I had trying to find someone at Whirlpool customer service that had any interest or knowledge that would help me figure out what happened to my machine. I was told that Whirlpool no longer has a technical help line due to liability issues. I guess if I hurt myself repairing a machine following their techs advice, they would be worried I would sue them. I made sure to let them know that because I did not get a timely reply to my questions I went out a bought a GE laundry pair hoping that it used a different spider assembly.

"So I guess they do have a group that checks out issues but it takes a lot of time frustration to find them. I should not have to contact the CEO of a company to get action on a product issue."

I decided to look into this a bit further and was surprised that I had not heard of this problem before. I was also surprised that some engineer (or, evidently, several) thought it a good idea to mate stainless steel and aluminum together for prolonged submersion in detergent and chlorine bleach solutions.

I found the following video on YouTube made by a gentleman who deconstructs his wrecked Frigidaire washer. This video provides a wonderful insight into how crappy some products are manufactured.

UPDATE 7/11/09: I was curious about this issue, so I emailed Electrolux with questions regarding the spider assemblies of Frigidaire and Electrolux washer. A day later, I got a response (the first I have ever received from Electrolux) saying "The material for the spider was changed to a new alloy in 2004. We do not have problems with failure of these parts."

So there you go. If you buy a Frigidaire or Electrolux frontload washer, you can rest assured the washer will not self-destruct due to galvanic corrosion caused by two dissimilar metals being mated together.

Now to see if Whirlpool and others will respond...

Reader Mail: F1 on Maytag Bravos rears it's ugly head

2009-07-08T18:03:00.002-04:00

From Melissa:

Dear Brad,

First of all I have to tell you that your blog has been a tremendous help in getting to the bottom of the pesky F1 code I have been getting on my Maytag Bravos machine. I called a for a repair last week and I wish I would have found your blog before he came. He told me that the cause of the F1 code was partially the fact that I was not using h/e detergent, I make my own powder formula of borax, washing soda and fels naptha, but also the fact that I was using too much and the soap was not completely cleaning out of the lines. The build up was causing the F1 code, he said he saw this with people using too much h/e detergents also. He suggested running more hot water through the lines and using less soap. I have done along with cleaning with vinegar and store bought washing machine cleaner for the past week and its still coding. That was when I went searching for answers and found your blog. My first question is what causes this code? Is it bad manufacturing or my using the wrong/too much detergent? Can it clear itself or does it need to be repaired? What are the consequences of not getting it repaired, will it cause worse damage to the machine? This code only comes up on the first load of the day. If I have multiple loads the other loads usually don't code.

Thanks for your help and I look forward to hearing back from you to get an idea of what I should do next regarding this problems.

Sincerely,
Melissa

My response:

Melissa,

It is possible that the F1 code was caused by your laundry habits (detergent), but I think that is unlikely. Too many of these machines have problems with the F1 error code. There is a known problem with the Oasis / Cabrio / Bravos machines. However, I thought that the Bravos had been introduced by the time Whirlpool was aware of these problems, and would have had them sorted out. Silly me.

I do not know if changing your habits will fix the problem. I would try to run a few loads of towels with just water (no detergent or anything) to try and flush out any excess detergent residue you may have. I don't know if you are able to set your own water level on this machine, but if you are, I would just run an empty load or two. The objective in doing this is to see what the machine does. If the machine continues to throw the code even after you have run some empty loads to rid the machine of detergent build-up, then the problem is not your detergent.

You did not say whether the machine is still under warranty. If it is, I would find another Maytag servicer in your area. The guy who has been out there has already made up his mind that the problem is with you, not the machine. If it is no longer under warranty, call the Maytag customer service line and explain the situation. Be firm, but be polite. Drop the words "recall" and "class action lawsuit" and see what they say. I suspect they will agree to fix the problem.

Let me know what happens. This is not a problem you should have to live with. Thanks for writing!

~Brad

Soap nuts anyone?

2009-07-04T10:15:00.003-04:00

I had heard about soap nuts some time ago while bouncing around on the GardenWeb Laundry Forum. I looked into them a little bit, but didn't really think too much more about them. Until this morning.

I pulled a clean shirt from my closet, put it on, and was overcome with the scent of laundry detergent. Now, I do not use a lot of detergent in my wash. I actually use less than the recommended amount for a small/light load, even when I am doing a full load in the large 3.76 cf Dexter 400 washer. Despite the miserly amount of detergent I use, my clothes are still saturated with the perfumes added to the detergent.

That got me thinking about soap nuts. After doing some research into soap nuts, I found that they are 100% natural. The grow on the tree, fall on the ground, are gathered and dried for distribution. That's it. Nothing is added.

Ever wonder what is in commercial laundry detergent? So did I, and I did not have much luck finding an answer. You can look here for more information on what is in laundry detergent, and why manufacturers are not putting that information on the labels.

Another benefit of soap nuts? They are truly "green". Little to no plastic packaging to fill out landfills. No toxic by-products in manufacturing or wastewater. Spent nuts can be tossed in the trash (completely biodegradable) or added to your compost.

Soap nuts are simple. You place four or five of the nuts into a muslin bag, tie the bag shut, and toss the bag in with your laundry. Just like any other detergent (commercial or natural), the surfacants will not activate or release properly in cold water, so you should make a soap nuts liquid for use in cold water washes. Instructions to do so are found here.

A brief crash course in soap nuts from the information I have been to find on the 'net:

* Product of the shrub or small tree Sapindus
* Contain saponins, a natural surfacant and also naturally antimicrobial
* Hard outer shell with fruit inside
* Soaking in water releases the saponins

More information about soap nuts can be found at the following sites:

Tiny Choices
Exeterra
Green Home

If you are ready to take the plunge and truly try something different, then head on over to Amazon pick up some soap nuts. If you decide to try them, let me know what you think. Likewise, if you currently use soap nuts, leave a comment below and let me know your experience!

Reader Mail: Amana frontload washer

2009-07-01T08:00:00.001-04:00

From Sherry:

Hey Brad,

I've been reading some of your blog on the new 'fangled' front load washers. I was thinking of buying the Amana even before I stumbled upon your blog, and now am even more interested. But I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping you can answer:

(1) is the Amana (3.5 cu ft) big enough to effectively clean a king-size bed comforter? (all the appliance sales people and an internet appl repair guy said I would need at least a 4.0 cu ft… do you agree? I was hoping to find something more moderately priced, such as the Amana, but that can handle large bulky items like king-size comforters and dog beds)

(2) why do you comment that it's necessary to have an internal water heater in front-load washers? (just wondering since the Amana doesn't have one, but all the consumer reviews state it cleans great).

Oh, and thanks for the price 'heads up' on the Amana -- I was going to order it from Sears, but can save over $100 by buying it from Home Depot… and they have free home delivery!! Excellent!

Thanks for your time!
Sherry

Hi Sherry!

I saw your comment before I turned in last night, took the time to write a long reply, and then my computer decided to cop an attitude and freeze up on me when I hit the "submit" button. I was not happy.

I had a nice, long-winded answer to your first question regarding capacity when I realized I sounded like an idiot. So I'll just say that 3.5cf would probably be pushing it for a king-size comforter. It will mostly depend on how thick your comforters are. I had many customers come into the store dragging a Hefty bag with a comforter stuffed into it to see how capacities really stacked up. Give it a shot and see what you think!

In regards to internal water heaters, I should probably revise my statements that they are a must-have in frontload washers. Clearly, they are not required. They are very useful, though.

There is a great post in the FAQ over at the GardenWeb Laundry Forum about the virtues of the internal water heater. The best benefit to me is the fact that the internal water heater can generate and maintain much hotter wash temperatures than a machine without. This is especially beneficial on whites. I never used bleach in my Samsung with the water heater, and they always came out white white white!

I think there are many laundry nerds (myself included) who tend to overthink laundry and washing machines. An internal water heater definitely is not required to get a good wash. I would say that a washer with a heater will outperform one without, especially when it comes to very stubborn stains. But that is not to say a washer without a heater will not do what it is supposed to do: clean your clothes.

Thank you for writing!

~Brad

*Note: After reading my response to Sherry, I realized the keywords in her question regarding capacity were "effectively clean". I should have pointed out that even though you can really stuff a frontload washer full, the machine will not function properly if you have to lean against the door to get it shut. You need to leave a fist-sized space at the top. The clothes will compress slightly when the load is saturated, but you still want to be sure you leave enough room for the clothes to actually tumble, not just spin around in circles with the rotation of the drum.

Sears takes an idea from the car companies

2009-06-30T18:28:00.003-04:00

From the Associated Press:

"HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill. (AP) — Sears said Tuesday that it plans to offer a buyer protection program for its home appliances to help consumers who lose their jobs during the recession.

"The free program, which starts Monday and runs through Aug. 1, covers appliance purchases of more than $399 made on a Sears card by cardholders who lose their job. Cardholders must have held a full-time job for at least 60 days when the appliance was purchased.

"If a customer loses his or her job, the program will credit 1/12th of the purchase price to the account for each month the cardholder is out of work. If the person is still out of work one year after the purchase, he or she will receive an account credit for what's left of the purchase amount and get to keep the appliance without any further payment obligations."

I'm not too sure that I have much of an opinion on this. My first thought was that almost every credit card now offers such a plan for an additional monthly fee, usually around $.94 for every $100 on the balance or so. But plans like that will usually only make the minimum monthly payment, which of course will not pay off the balance within a year.

I am pretty anti-Sears on this blog, but I have to give them credit where credit is due. Of course, this is pretty indicative of just how bad things are right now. I am interested to see if the others (Lowes, Home Depot, et al.) will follow suit.

Getting the most bang for your buck: frontload washers

2009-06-28T13:56:00.007-04:00

Continuing on the previous post, I want to look at the frontload washers that will give you the best bang for your buck. This is not a post about which washer is the best, or which washer is the coolest. This post is simply about which frontload washers give you the most for your money.

As you are looking through the following list, you will notice several commonalities among all machines.

Capacity: all are at least 3.5cf IEC, with the largest coming in at 4.1cf. I do not put a whole lot of stock in capacity measurements. Several years ago, when the Whirlpool Duet came out, they advertised their 3.7cf drum could hold sixteen pairs of jeans. The Whirlpool Duet on this list offers a 4.1cf drum (smaller baffles, I am guessing), and they still tout the ability to wash sixteen pairs of jeans. Uhm... okay.

Spin speed: all of the washers on the list below offer a max spin speed of at least 1,000 rpm. These higher spin speeds simply extract more water for faster drying times.

Efficiency: all of these washers are EnergyStar qualified.

Water heater: most of these washers, with the exception of the Amana, offer an internal water heater. An internal water is almost a must in a frontload washer, although for Amana's crazy-low price, I'd be willing to let that feature go.

Price: all retail for a grand or less.

When looking through this list, keep in mind that these washers are at the middle or lower end of each manufacturer's lineup. There are many other washers available; I just think these offer the best bang for the buck. Also, the prices below are accurate as of 6/28/09. No doubt they will change.

Although I did not put the top load washers in any particular order, I am putting this list in order of least to greatest value (IMHO, of course). Of course, I think all of these washers are tremendous values.

GE WCVH6800JWW

Lowes: $798
Home Depot: $719
Sears: $708
US Appliance: $689
Best Buy: $679.99

Capacity: 4.0cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1100rpm

These washers came about four years ago to mixed reviews. GE had a problem with the rubber door boot tearing, and they have assured me that the problem has been fixed in the new models of washers. These washers are made in China by Little Swan, which I believe is a subsidiary of GE.

Maytag MHWZ600TW

Home Depot: $718
US Appliance: $799
hhgregg: $808
Sears: $723
Lowes: $798
Best Buy: $849

Capacity: 3.7cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1200rpm

I believe the EpicZ is based off of the older KitchenAid Ensemble washer from a few years ago, which was a step-up from the Whirlpool Duet. I tried to confirm this, along with a few other questions, with Whirlpool PR, but they don't seem to like me too well and do not respond to my inquiries.

Whereas the Whirlpool Duet washers are (or were?) made in Germany, I believe the EpicZ is made in Mexico. I tried to find the answer to this question via Google, but all I could find out was that Jay-Z is close to a deal with Epic Records. Oh well.

Whirlpool WFW9400SW

Lowes: $998
AJ Madison: $909
Sears: $808 (sale price)
hhgregg: $898

Capacity: 4.1cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1200rpm

One neat feature of the Whirlpool Duet is what they call Direct Inject Wash System. At the start of the wash cycle, the machine shoots a concentration of detergent and water into the machine to saturate the clothes. This is supposed to eliminate the need for pretreating.

Amana NFW7200TW

AJ Madison: $629
Sears: $586.49
Home Depot: $489.60 w/ free shipping thru 7/8 ($544 regular)

Capacity: 3.5cf
Internal Water Heater: no
Max Spin Speed: 1000rpm

Additional features of note: direct drive motor (no belts, pulleys, transmission), antimicrobial protection built into the rubber door seal.

The deal Home Depot has going on this machine makes it an absolute steal. This is a good, basic washer that offers a tremendous bang for the buck. The machine is built by Samsung for the Amana brand (owned by Whirlpool). I would not think twice about buying this machine.

LG WM0642HW

Sears: $808
Best Buy: $810
US Appliance: $810
hhgregg: $844
Home Depot: $899

Capacity: 4.0cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1200rpm

Additional features of note: rear control, direct drive motor (no belts, pulleys, transmission), better warranty (one year parts/labor; additional 1 year parts on the control board; additional 6 years parts on the motor).

I've said for a while that this washer is the best value in frontload washers on the market. At every site that offers product reviews, you will find that the majority of owners rate this machine very well.

Samsung WF328AAW

Lowes: $898
Best Buy: $720
AJ Madison: $929
Sears: $893

Capacity: 4.0cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1200rpm

Additional features of note: Vibration Reduction Technology (VRT) helps to reduce washer vibration when operating at high spin speeds; direct drive motor (no belts, pulleys, transmission); better warranty (one year parts/labor, additional 1 year parts on the control board, additional 5 years parts on the motor). This washer also offers a SilverCare feature. According to Samsung, silver ions are released into the wash water to help to sanitize, even on cold water washes. All indications are that this feature actually does work. The uncertainty, however, comes in the unknown environmental impacts of dumping silver ions into waste water.

I've selected this washer as my Best Value for the simple fact that it offers a couple additional features the LG does not in VRT and SilverCare.

Getting the most bang for your buck

2009-06-28T08:00:00.003-04:00

I was thinking today about the state of the economy. I live in a county that is experiencing an unemployment rate of 17%. My own employment future is uncertain as the company I work for is drastically trimming fat to cope with the downward spiral in sales. Across the country, consumers are snapping shut their purses and wallets, drawing back their spending. And while sales of durable goods are in the toilet, people still need to replace broken washing machines.

So what if you need to buy a washing machine, but you don't want to spend over a grand for a bling machine? How do you get the most bang for the buck? That's what I will focus on in the next few posts, starting with top load washers.

To start with, I am going to completely ignore high-efficiency top load washers. I just don't see these machines as being described as a "value". The propensity for expensive repairs and mediocre wash results, among other issues, are just too great.

So in looking for the best value in top load washers, what criteria am I using?

One: capacity. Capacities in top load washers vary in size from 2.5 to 3.5 cubic feet. All of the washers on this list vary from 3.3 to 3.5 cf. (On a side note, you may notice that Whirlpool/Maytag offer 3.2 and 3.5 cf drums. The drums are exactly the same size; the difference comes in the size of the agitator.)

Two: reliability/service. This area can be somewhat a crap shoot. Whirlpool washers are simple and relatively dependable, and are supported by a vast network of service providers. GE has greatly improved reliability in their top load washers through the years, and they also offer and extensive support network. Speed Queen simply offers the best-built machine, backed by the most extensive warranty, on the market.

Three: features/benefits. When talking about features in these washers, we're not talking about extreme spin speeds or miserly water usage, fancy colors or LED control boards. We're talking about the basics: adjustable water levels, multiple water temperature, a moderate level of cycle selections, maybe an extra rinse cycle. That's it.

Please note that the prices listed below are subject to change, and are accurate as of 6/27/09.

Whirlpool WTW5200VQ

Best Buy: $450
Lowes: $448
Sears: $408
US Appliance: $389

Drum Material: Porcelain on steel
Number of Speed Combination: 2
Bleach Dispenser: Yes
Number of Cycles: 10
Extra Rinse: Yes
Number of Temperatures: 3
Hot/Cold, Warm/Cold, Cold/Cold
Water Levels: 2

Maytag MVWC400VW

Home Depot: $449.10
Lowes: $498
Sears: $450.49
hhgregg: $499.97
US Appliance: $389

Drum Material: Porcelain on steel
Bleach Dispenser: Yes
Number of Cycles: 12
Extra Rinse: Yes
Number of Temperatures: 4
Hot/Cold, Warm/Warm, Warm/Cold, Cold/Cold
Water Levels: 3

GE WDRR2500KWW

Best Buy: $450
Home Depot: $404.10
hhgregg: $449.97

Drum Material: Stainless steel
Bleach Dispenser: Yes
Number of Cycles: 14
Extra Rinse: Yes
Number of Temperatures: 3
Hot/Cold, Warm/Cold, Cold/Cold
Water Levels: 3

Speed Queen AWN412

*Not available at any big box stores. Check independent retailers in your area. Online prices varying from $600 to $679.

Drum Material: Stainless steel
Bleach Dispenser: Yes
Number of Cycles: 8
Extra Rinse: No
Number of Temperatures: 3
Hot/Cold, Warm/Cold, Cold/Cold
Water Levels: 4

From looking at the above, you can see that there are not really any major differences between those machines. They all offer good capacity. They all offer porcelain or stainless steel wash baskets. The offer a fair amount of flexibility on cycles and wash temperatures and water levels.

This is why, when I in the appliance biz, I grew very exasperated with shoppers that made picking out a washing machine a flippin' ordeal. It is not that difficult!

1) Do not buy Frigidaire. (They're cheap crap.)
2) Do not buy from Sears. (Their service sucks.)
3) Start with the washers above and go from there.

Some of you may question why I put Speed Queen on this list. Remember, I wrote this with an eye towards value, and Speed Queen washers, with their tremendous durability and exceptional warranty, offer a very high level of value. I advise you to give Speed Queen a look if you are in the market for a top load washer.

Are you using too much detergent?

2009-06-27T13:40:00.003-04:00

There is an interesting article over at ConsumerReports.org regarding laundry detergents and the tendency of consumers to overdose. The article is based on the fact that many of the caps on liquid detergents are difficult to read. I would go even further to say that the recommended dosages are excessive.

The article has several good points, but I agree mostly with the following:

"Since some of the tested detergents cost as much as 65 cents per load, using too much cleaner could become expensive. Overdosing can also cause soap deposits and lint to form inside your washing machine, which, say some manufacturers, might contribute to mold and odors. It could also plug or restrict ports or filters, says Chris Zeisler, an appliance-repair expert at RepairClinic.com, who adds that those deposits could result in mechanical failure. And for some high-efficiency washers, overdosing can produce excessive suds and lead to extended wash cycles as the machine tries to remove the soap."

I do my laundry at a local laundromat. Frontload Wascomat washers and Tide 2x HE. The first time I used the Tide, I used a half cap on a huge load. The suds were tremendous. There were even suds left at the end of the cycle. I have since dialed back the dosage to just under the dosage recommended for a light/small load. The results are fine, and the suds are not out of control.

Check out the full article at ConsumerReports.org.

Reader Mail: Basic top load washer?

2009-06-21T18:30:00.003-04:00

Charisse writes:

"Brad,

I found your blog tonight and I was hoping to get your opinion on choosing a new washer. Our 5 yr old Kenmore 80 is on it's last legs... not willing to pay the $400+ to get a new transmission. Repairman told me that we've been overloading our machine (perhaps he is right).

"Sears guys tried to sell me the Kenmore Oasis TL... feel like I dodged a bullet after reading your blog.

"Here are my requirements:

1. I average one load/day as we are a family of 5.
2. Laundry is one 2nd floor behind a little door, so must be TL, not FL.
3. Energy/water efficiency not high priorities.
4. Sorting laudry is not my strong suit as I have 3 boys. Everything gets thrown in together.

"Thanks in advance."
-CML

Charisse,

Thank you for writing!

You have asked a great question, and it is one that is not addressed too frequently on my blog. I tend to have a focus on the high-priced, high-tech, high-efficiency frontload washers. I don't really focus too much on what many people, such as yourself, are looking for: a basic top load washer.

I know that shopping for any washing machine can be daunting. There are so many different brands, different styles, different price points, different features, different retailers. But I think when you get down to the brass tacks, a decision can quickly be made via the process of elimination.

In the basic top load washer category, I have only two recommendations: Whirlpool (or rebranded Whirlpool design, such as your Kenmore or Maytag) or Speed Queen.

First, Whirlpool. Despite the fact that Whirlpool, like any other corporation, has moved some production to Mexico, they still maintain a tremendous manufacturing presence in the good ol' U.S. To my knowledge, all Whirlpool top load washers and companion dryers are made in Clyde and Marion, Ohio. They pay employees at these plants well, and are still able to produce a tremendous volume of laundry appliances. That speaks volumes to the efficiency of their operations. Kudos to Whirlpool for continuing to invest in the workforce of Ohio, the state I call home.

So what of Whirlpool washers? They make good washers of proven design that are relatively dependable, affordable, and easy to service. Pretty much everywhere you go in the country, there will be an authorized Whirlpool service provider nearby. The washers offer good capacity and a dual-action agitator that does a fine job of moving the clothes through the water, provided the washer is not overloaded.

And what of Speed Queen? This is one of the oldest names in laundry, and is simply the best-built top load washer on the market. They are made in Wisconsin, and the company has adopted a philosophy of keeping things simple in their machines. No computer boards, no fancy chimes, just a basic washing machine that does the job and is built like a tank.

Speed Queen washers are so well-built that the company offers the best warranty in the business: a full three year (parts and labor) on the entire machine. They also warranty the motor and the cabinet for an addition two years (parts only). And beyond the original three year warranty, the transmission is covered for an additional seven years (parts only). The stainless steel wash basket and outer tub are covered for life. No other company, Whirlpool included, stands behind their products like Speed Queen.

So there are my recommendations for top load washers. I firmly believe that if you select a washer from either of these brands, all of your needs will be met. Expect to spend around $400 for a well-equipped Whirlpool washer; $500 for Speed Queen.

Reader Mail: Sears letter on the Oasis

2009-04-07T18:38:00.005-04:00

Well, it looks like Sears has finally decided they can't ignore the elephant in the room any longer and are addressing the problems with the Oasis HE washers. It will be interesting to see if Whirlpool follows suit.

If you haven't seen the letter that has gone out to some owners of these machines, you can check it out below. My thanks to Rick for sending me a copy.

If you have received this letter, let me know how it goes!

Kenmore Oasis Class Action Lawsuit?

2009-03-15T16:44:00.003-04:00

For some time, I have been getting visitors to my blog as a result of Google searches referencing a class action lawsuit for the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos machines. I have no idea what is taking place in different parts of the country in regard to legal action on the basis of the f51 error codes.

I do, however, know of at least on firm (I've no doubt there are probably many more) that is investigating these problems in the Kenmore Oasis washers. More information can be found at this site: Kenmore Oasis Class Action Investigation.

If any of you contact this firm, let me know what happens.

Reader Mail: Pam's washer bit the dust!

2009-03-10T21:17:00.002-04:00

Pam writes:

Hi Brad,

While I knew the day was coming, our conventional washer crapped out on Sunday. After searching the internet for hours that night I was relieved to find some straight forward, easy to read, and informative opinions on washers. Thank you as well for the links to other review sites.

I was strongly leaning towards the LG WM0642HM until I couldn't find it on any Canadian store websites. Nor could I find the Maytag Neptune (unless the panic is setting in and I just can't find them). I'm afraid the immediate need to replace our washer is going to lead to a bad buy (this will probably be bought tonight, if not now we won't have time to look until next week).

I don't want anything fancy, just something that gets clothes clean, is reliable and can handle the large amount of laundry (3 boys and a small massage business worth of sheets).

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Pam

My response:

Hi Pam! Thank you for visiting and taking the time to write.

I don't know exactly how different the appliances offerings are in your neck of the woods. I took a look at Canadian Appliance Source, and they do have the LG 0642 on the website. They also have the Maytag Epic listed at $999, which is a heckuva buy for you considering it's going for the same price down here. So those are available in Canada; it's just a question of where to find them in relation to your area.

The site also lists the Amana washer that I have been bragging up. This model is a tremendous bang for the buck.

If you are set on a frontload washer, then I would not hesitate to recommend a washer built by Samsung or LG. Both brands are very popular and offer a lot of performance for the dollar. There is also the fact that LG and Samsung washers feature a direct drive motor. It is simply a simpler design, and less prone to failure.

Despite the amount of Whirlpool bashing I exercise on my blog, I do like their frontload washers (although the Duet Sport is a bit iffy). The Maytag I have linked above (made by Whirlpool) offers a pretty good bang for the buck. Good capacity, good spin speed, and an internal water heater!

I tend to advise people to stay away from most high-efficiency top load washers (such as the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos washers) and some models made by Frigidaire. But I think if you can hunt down the LG or the Maytag, you will definitely get what you need.

Please let me know if you have any more questions.

Brad

Amana frontloader at Home Depot is a spectacular deal!

2009-03-09T18:58:00.000-04:00

A couple weeks ago, I wrote a post about how Amana offers a frontload washer and dryer that is a tremendous value. If you look around online, you will find sellers offering the washer for anywhere from $600 to $800. Myself, I would pay $800 for this washer. Like I said in the other post, it sucks that the washer does not have an internal water heater, but this washer offers a lot of bang for the buck.

So yeah, I would not hesitate to drop $800 for this washer. Some sellers are offering it for $600, and that is a tremendous bargain.

What Home Depot is doing with this washer, though, defies belief. I do not know how long this special is going on, but Home Depot is offering the washer and electric dryer for $449.10 each. (The website refers to this price as an Internet special, so I am not sure if it is available in stores). That means for $900, you can get an Amana frontload washer and electric dryer (made by Samsung). That is an exceptional deal. You can spend that much on a middle of the line top load washer set!

Like I said, I have no idea how long this is going on, but you can head on over to Home Depot to check out this deal.

Now, I'm a major proponent of buying locally and buying from the little guys, but I guess we all have our price, right? Take my word for it: this is a fantastic offer.

Update: Okay, party's over. Dammit, and I didn't even get this washer for myself! The price is now listed as $538.20 each on the Home Depot website. Hey, it's still a great price on a frontload washer set. Not as good as it was, but still a very good buy.

Fisher & Paykel dying?

2009-03-09T12:00:00.001-04:00

I've long been an advocate for Fisher & Paykel washers. Numerous times I have stated that the only top load washers I would recommend anyone buy be Speed Queen and Fisher & Paykel. Unfortunately, I am going to have to stop making that recommendation.

The problems with the latest line of AquaSmart washers is many, mostly centered around the fact that they consistently blow control boards. Given the fact that modern appliances are heavily computerized, a blown board renders an appliance as useful as a paper weight.

Home Expo, the high-end division of Home Depot, has shuttered their doors. Expo served as one major arm of Fisher & Paykel retail distribution. The company is also being shut out of Lowes. While firm numbers are not available, I would imagine Lowes alone counted for a very large percentage of Fisher & Paykel's North American sales.

The Clyde, Ohio, washer factory is to be closed in July and production sent across the river to Mexico.

The company's balance sheet is weighted down with around half a billion dollars in debt. This is an increase from $16 million just five years ago.

An interesting interview with F&P chairman Gary Paykel can be found here. The interview raises an interesting spectre: the possibility of a large competitor swooping in to take over the company. Imagine F&P coming under control of the ChiComms in the form of Haier.

Maybe all of the above is just circumstantial, and not really enough to stop recommending their products. However, their AquaSmart washers have problems (as do the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos washer, with technology licensed from F&P; coincidence?). The top load dryers have a persistent bearing problem. And the company has reduced their very good 2-year warranty to one year, putting them on par with Whirlpool, Frigidaire, and all the rest of the appliances on the market.

I do like to gamble. But $800 is a lot of money to me, far too much for gambling. So I would stay away from Fisher & Paykel for the time being. And I sincerely hope they get their house in order.

Charlie's Soap: superb value, superb soap

2009-03-08T14:43:00.004-04:00

Have you ever put on a t-shirt or other garment and notice that the item kinda reeks? Have you ever done a load of wash only to pull the clothes out of the dryer to find a stain did not come out of your favorite pants? Do your clothes feel stiff and scratchy, and can you see a mass of suds in the drum even during the final rinse?

If you answered "yes" to any of the questions above, then your laundry detergent sucks.

I have used Charlie's Soap in the past, and I was very satisfied not only with how it cleaned, but also how my clothes felt afterward. I do not use fabric softener for the simple fact that 1) it's disgusting, and 2) it gunks up washing machines. When I used Charlie's Soap, my clothes came out noticeable softer. Not quite as as soft as if I had used fabric softener, but pretty close.

There was also another noticeable difference: my clothes smelled clean. My clothes didn't smell like I had been frolicking in a field of lilacs.

One bag of Charlie's Soap will clean about 80 loads. The most you will need to use on a large load is one tablespoon. Compare that to some of the brands you get at Wal-Mart. Why the difference? Charlie's Soap is just that: soap. No fillers, do perfumes, no crap.

You can find more information about Charlie's Soap by going straight to the source.

There are a slew of comments at the GardenWeb Laundry Forum about Charlie's Soap.

Or if you just want to take my word for it, click below and order some for yourself.

Reader Mail: F1 error code on Kenmore Oasis

2009-03-05T18:05:00.006-05:00

Darrell writes:

Brad,

I am new to this online blog stuff, so I figured an email would be best. I own a Kenmore Elite Oasis washer Model #110.27042602. Everytime we try to use the washer we get error code F1 flashing. This happens withins seconds of the machine first starting to fill and about ten times thereafter until enough water gets into the tub for balance, I assume. We have started pouring about 2 gallons of water onto the clothes in the tub by hand before starting the machine which usually works. About half the time the machine stops again between wash and rinse cycle as it starts to fill with water again.

In my online research, I guess its good we don't have error code F51, but this is a pain and 1 year warranty has passed. It appears I may need to get a new Machine Motor Control Assembly. Any thoughts????

Thank you,
Darrell S.

Darrell,

I'm probably not going to tell you anything you don't already know. You know you may have to replace the motor control assembly, so you have done your due diligence.

I found a thread related to your problem at the "Samurai Appliance Repair Forums" at ApplianceGuru.com. That link will take you to the discussion, in case you haven't already read it. The poster described a situation identical to yours, and I have also read of this problem at other sites on the web.

Contained within that thread is a link to a Service Matters (Whirlpool Corp.) tech sheet related to the F1 error code. This is the document any qualified servicer will refer to when addressing your problem. Here is a link to that sheet in case you want to have it on hand in the event of a service call.

The tech sheet calls to replace the control, but only after three other tests have been conducted. Everything I have read indicates the control will be replaced the vast majority of the time. I am not a technician, but I would say there really is no way around that.

Please keep in mind that this sheet applies to specific models and serial numbers within the Whirlpool line. There may be a separate sheet for your washer, but I imagine the end result is the same.

The million dollar question is how much will such a repair cost. I am seeing prices ranging from $150 to $200 just for the part. With labor, you will probably have at least $300 invested in this repair. I would encourage you to contact Whirlpool at 866-769-7260. I have read instances of other owners receiving satisfactory service in out-of-warranty situations via this number. Whirlpool knows these washers are crap, so they no doubt have a scripted procedure in place to deal with these situations. Be firm, but also be polite. Maybe drop the word "recall" and see what happens.

Let me know how it goes.

Edit 3/8/09: I realized today that I was giving him some useless advice. His washer is a Kenmore, and I advised him to contact Whirlpool. While Whirlpool is the manufacturer of the Kenmore Oasis, Darrell would need to go through Sears directly in order to get any satisfaction. Granted, both companies utilize A&E Factory Service on the service arm of the business, but the proper channels would still need to be followed. My apologies for any confusion.

~ Brad

Sears notches a win in dryer suit

2009-03-04T21:43:00.004-05:00

I came across an interesting story at consumeraffairs.com:

Kenmore Dryer Suit Hung Out to Dry

"The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals struck a blow to consumer class actions in an opinion reversing class certification for a lawsuit involving Kenmore clothes dryers.

"The suit, filed on behalf of plaintiffs in 28 states and the District of Columbia, alleged that Sears deceived customers by imprinting the words “stainless steel” on the outside of the dryers even though part of the drum, located entirely inside the dryer, was made of ceramic-coated, rather than stainless, steel.

"The lead plaintiff, Steven Thorogood of Tennessee, alleged that the non-stainless section of his drum rusted and stained his clothes."

The judge presiding over the case, Judge Richard Posner, seemed to dismiss the suit on a legal basis. However, he also rebukes the merits of the plaintiff's claims, chief among them being that Sears lied about the drum being made of stainless steel, and that deception resulted in rusting which damaged his clothes.

"Posner noted that rust stains are not a common problem among dryer owners, and that few people buy stainless appliances to prevent such stains."

That may be true. Nobody buys a stainless steel range with the expectation that the stainless steel will not rust. However, that is not the case with dryers containing a stainless steel drum. If you walk into any appliance store in the country and ask a salesperson the advantage of having a stainless steel drum in the dryer, 100% of them will tell you it will not rust, and therefore ruin your clothes.

It shouldn't matter that Sears did not advertise that the drum will not rust; the fact that the drum is stainless steel makes this implied. In addition, why would every salesperson claim that a stainless steel drum will resist rust? Because the manufacturers and management tell them to claim this as a benefit. And if the drum isn't even made entirely of stainless steel when the claim is made that it is, that is even more deceptive.