UPDATE - The Judicial Waterboarding of our Marines

Posted By Blackfive

UPDATE 07-03-09:  Judge Larson has released Sergeants Nelson and Weemer to the Marine Corps.  They did not testify.

More details to follow...

Quote from Joe Low, Sgt Nelson’s attorney:

“After considering all points of the law, and finding that Sergeants Nelson and Weemer were in contempt of court and are still in contempt of court, and taking into consideration their training, their commitment to each other and the fact they are brother Marines, and under belief they were never going to testify against each other, the Judge released these Marines and they are now free. Judge Larson’s fair ruling took into account the service that these Marines have given to their country. I thank the judge for his actions.”

Please thank Judge Larson for releasing Sergeants Nelson and Weemer by sending a letter or email of gratitude. Remember to be polite and professional as this Judge proved these Marines were not going to be forgotten over this 4th of July weekend.

Name: Stephen C. Larson
Phone: (909) 328-4410
E-mail: stephen_larson@cacd.uscourts.gov

Hon. Stephen G. Larson
Courtroom No: 1
3470 Twelfth Street
Riverside, California 92501

This is good news!  The Marines won't spend the Holiday locked up with "model citizens".  THANK YOU TO EVERYONE THAT HAS HELPED!

---

"Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, Eighty are just targets, Nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." - Hericletus, circa 500 BC

RE: Marine Jailed Over Memorial Day Weekend for Exercising 5th Amendment
RE: Update - Marine Jailed for Exercising 5th Amendment
RE: Marine Jailed for Refusing to Testify Against Squad Leader

The article below was written by two warriors who have served in Iraq:

“JUDICIAL WATERBOARDING” OUR MARINES

By: GI Wilson and William McNulty

Marine Sergeants Jermaine Nelson and Ryan Weemer are currently in jail for refusing to testify in a civilian war crimes trial against fellow Marine and former squad leader Jose Nazario, now a civilian and honorably discharged Marine. Released due to public outcry after his initial incarceration, Nelson was again jailed on June 24, 2008, for steadfastly standing by Nazario. Lacking concrete physical evidence of an alleged crime, Jerry Behnke, an over-zealous U.S. Attorney from California, resorted to “Gitmo” style coercion (i.e. judicial waterboarding) to force active-duty Marines Sgt. Nelson and Sgt Ryan Weemer to testify against Nazario in a civilian Grand Jury hearing. Denying these Marines the opportunity to avoid self-incrimination, Behnke used legalistic instruments of duress (i.e. wired pleas, immunity offers, contempt of court orders, and jail time) to break the wartime bonds of combat Marines. This case is not only morally wrong and legally questionable, but also reveals negligent military leadership, political maneuvering, rogue behavior by U.S. Attorneys, and a faulty federal statute drafted in the wake of stories of abuse by U.S. civilians serving overseas.

At issue is the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act (“MEJA”), with which federal judges must struggle when prosecutors like Behnke resort to “judicial waterboarding” of military personnel. According to the June 16, 2004 statement by Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL), MEJA “provided U.S. Federal courts with jurisdiction over civilian employees, contractors, and subcontractors affiliated with the Department of Defense who commit crimes.” Amending MEJA through H.R. 2740, Congressman David Price (D-NC) said on October 3, 2007, “Put simply, this legislation ensures that the U.S. government has the legal authority to prosecute crimes committed by U.S. contractor personnel working in war zones.” MEJA was never intended to be used against U.S. military personnel engaged in active combat. Born out of stories of rogue private security contractors, MEJA was created to hold these civilians to the same standards that U.S. military members face under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (“UCMJ”). However, it now appears MEJA is being used against service members in an improper attempt to supersede the Military Justice system which has served our Military and nation well since June 30, 1775, when the Second Continental Congress established 69 Articles of War to govern the conduct of the Continental Army.

Ironically, given the numerous cases of reported private contractor abuse, only one private contractor has been indicted by the Department of Justice (“DoJ”) under MEJA for any sort of physically abusive or violent crime. According to JURIST, a Web-based legal news service at the University of Pittsburg School of Law, MEJA prosecutions are initiated and paid for by local U.S. Attorney’s offices, creating “significant internal disincentives to prosecute.” Why then would the U.S. Attorney’s Office suddenly decide to prosecute Marines under MEJA? With no hard evidence of an alleged crime, why has Behnke’s office wasted limited government resources on such a weak case? Why is the U.S. Attorney’s Office prosecuting Nazario under a statute that does not even apply to Military members acting in the course of their sworn duties?

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), Chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, along with many of his congressional colleagues, have expressed displeasure over the lack of war crime prosecutions by the DoJ under MEJA. One must wonder whether congressional defeatists, discouraged by the lack of war crimes convictions in military courts-martial, have placed undue pressure on the federal judiciary to pursue charges against Marines in civilian courts. When the military court-marital process did not produce the preconceived results desired by some members of Congress (throwing U.S. Military personnel in jail rather than terrorists), Waxman’s zeal for more MEJA prosecutions may well have inspired Behnke’s enthusiasm for “judicial waterboarding.”

Now, it appears senior Department of Defense (“DoD”) leaders are waiting to see which way the political winds might blow before taking a position on MEJA -- all the while offering up young enlisted Marines as sacrificial lambs to the congressional gods. We are led to this conclusion after seeing Nelson and Weemer confined to jail by a U.S. attorney who seems to be motivated by political considerations.

To make matters worse, according to his Sergeant Major, Sgt Nelson, after three tours of combat, will now be denied pay as a result of his second arrest and confinement in a civilian federal jail (surrounded by gang members, drug dealers and rapists). Considered UA (unauthorized absence), not only has Sgt Nelson been denied his Constitutional rights, which no longer seem to apply to the military, he will now lose his apartment, his possessions, and his beloved Corps. Nazario, Nelson, and Weemer have honorably served their country in combat and steadfastly stood by their fellow Marines. They hold true to a code taught early on to every Marine: “Semper Fidelis (Always Faithful).”

Should not senior leadership be faithfully supporting these Marines while they demonstrate the moral and physical courage of loyalty? Should Nazario, Nelson and Weemer not be presumed innocent until proven guilty? Why are senior Defense Department leaders not objecting to the U.S. Attorney’s actions? Is the Justice Department trampling the UCMJ system and improperly subjecting Marines instead to civilian legal apparatus, and if so, then why? The Commandant of the Marine Corps and General Mattis were in command on the ground in Iraq when these very Marines were fighting for their lives in the streets of Fallujah. Is not a commander responsible and accountable for everything his subordinates do? Ranking officers should be aware that in all likelihood they are next in line for persecution. There can be no doubt that the big trophies are what the DoJ and congressional defeatists ultimately prefer.

An African-American Marine, a Mexican-American Marine, and a white Marine – it matters not, they’re all Marines. Were this any other institution in our nation, the politically correct crowd would be celebrating this loyal trio as an example of successful cultural diversity. Instead, the lives of these Marines hang in the balance as a noncombatant civilian U.S. attorney with an apparent political agenda is questioning their wartime decisions. How are civilian jurists to understand the house-to-house and hand-to-hand fighting that took place in Fallujah? How can any U.S. Attorney deem themselves entitled and capable to prosecute and judge these Marines without walking in the death-shadows of their combat boots?

As Sgt Nelson said when being led away in shackles, “Hell and federal lock-up have nothing on what we experienced in the streets of Fallujah.” Despite the risk to their liberty and livelihoods, three individuals, from very different walks of life - combat hardened Marine brothers - are unwavering in their support for each other in the courtroom just as they were on the battlefield. Just as a wife cannot be forced to testify against her husband, neither should a Marine be forced to testify against a wartime buddy.

We don’t believe MEJA was intended for the purpose of prosecuting decorated combat Marines. Not only is the Military more than capable of investigating alleged war crimes on its own, but the foundation of our American system of justice demands such judgment by peers. We take issue with this statute, with over-zealous investigators and politicians, and with senior DoD leaders who do not publicly challenge the legality and jurisdictional reach of MEJA – all while enlisted Marines languish in jail.

An old Master Guns once said, “The Corps will screw you every time -- but your Marine buddies will never let you down.” Sadly, these three Marines, are living proof of that.

William McNulty is the Secretary of the Marine Corps Intelligence Association. GI Wilson is a retired Marine. Both are veterans of Iraq’s Al Anbar Province.

First, and most important, you can send me emails for Sergeant Nelson (put NELSON in the subject line) and I will get them to him via his attorney.  They mean the world to him and those of you who have sent them have made a huge difference.

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Comments

[Darthparrish]

How many times does someone who actually understands how the law works have to come here and tell you that he is not being denied his rights? If you READ the constitution and the bill of rights you will clearly see that Nelson is being held in contempt of court for refusing to testify in a situation where he is afforded no such right. He is not protected by the 5th amendment because he was granted immunity and therefore is not being forced to make self incriminating statements. Also they are not protected against testifying in front of a grand jury anyway.

So sure you can be upset that you are asking this man to break his vow of fidelity towards a man who saved his life, that is unfortunate. However, the law is clear and it is not the judge's or any attorney's fault that they are following the laws set forth by our government. Nobody's constitutional rights are being ignored or denied so there is truly no one to blame but the marines that are keeping their mouth shut, knowing that they face the afore mentioned consequences laid out.

[douglas]

Grudgingly, I'd have to agree that there is no Fifth Amendment issue here. However, I appreciate you're getting me to go and re-read the Fifth Amendment.

Here's the first sentence:
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger"

From that, and that alone, it would seem to me that using MEJA against men in the uniformed service of their country in a combat zone in times such as these, would be clearly unconstitutional. What am I missing here?

[douglas]

Sorry, that first part should read "no Fifth Amendment issue here regarding self-incrimination"

Clearly, there is a Fifth Amendment issue.

[Blackfive]

Look, I appreciate the advice, but here's how this works:

There is no statute of limitations.

Marine One testifies under immunity from his own testimony - he implicates Marine Two and Marine Three.
The other Marines cave and testify implicating the Marine One. They too have immunity from their own testimony.
The second Marine testifies against Marine One and Marine Three.
Marine Three testifies against Marine One and Two.

Voila.

California Prosecutor now has a case.

[Ken]

For clarification, what is the crime that is being investigated?

Is it for something that they all did while in the Marines? If so, how is that even possible?

[douglas]

Ken, go read the links at the top of the post (the three starting with "Re:"). It's all there.

How? It's a ludicrous law called MEJA. Again, go read the preceeding posts, and you'll get up to speed.

[Hollywood_Marine]

Darthparrish, What happens when military prosecutors use Nelson's testimony in the civilian court against him in his military court-martial? This is just one of the reasons why this stinks to high heaven. You don't believe that will happen?

[john Ryan]

Do we really want to hear the truth ?

[RFR]

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger"

Douglas, what this part of the amendment means is that you can't be held for a felony without first obtaining a grand jury indictment. The grand jury indictment is not necessary in cases involving the military in actual service. Technically, Sgt Nazario got more rights to which he was entitled, which is not a bad thing at all.

Hollywood Marine,
If they use the testimony, that would be a flat fifth amendment violation. (which has not yet happened in this case.) Assuming a military judge would be so crazy as to allow the statements to be used against Sgt. Nelson, he would have a tailor made issue to appeal a conviction on, and the UCMJ gives him the right to appeal, potentially up the US Supreme Court.

[SomeJarhead]

I'm a Marine, and a lawyer (but don't speak for the Corps or the government), and this is bullshit. Sgt Nelson will probably face disciplinary action once the civilian courts are done with him.

MEJA has nothing to do with this case. All we have is a Marine who is too busy looking out for himself to remember our Core Values.

The justice system (civil, criminal, and military) has a process to ensure a fair hearing. That process includes the ability to COMPEL TESTIMONY. This protects the victim (by getting the story out), the accused (by exposing evidence unfavorable to the prosecution), and the public (by ensuring justice). No matter how he feels about his buddy, this Marine has been compelled to testify (and granted immunity least he did something wrong himself) in the interests of justice.

His obligation (as an American) is to testify truthfully. His obligation (as a Marine) is do to so professionally. I suppose it's not something we'd expect you soldiers to understand...

What happens next (and the MEJA issue) is an entirely different story.

Move on Blackfive. Nothing to see here.

[SomeJarhead]

"What happens when military prosecutors use Nelson's testimony in the civilian court against him in his military court-martial? This is just one of the reasons why this stinks to high heaven. You don't believe that will happen?"

It doesn't work that way.

Check out Kastigar v. United States, 406 U.S. 441 (1972) and 18 USC 6002 which states, in relevant part:

"...but no testimony or other information compelled under the order (or any information directly or indirectly derived from such testimony or other information) may be used against the witness in ANY CRIMINAL CASE, except a prosecution for perjury..."

And leave the lawyering to the lawyers.

[Blackfive]

spoken like a true lawyer...

[Ymarsakar]

Lawyers have one set of ethics, soldiers/warriors another, and spies still another.

The three don't really get along.

Lawyers trust the system to get things done, that's why they prosecute or defend and act all biased like.

Soldiers don't trust the system. They trust each other. The buddies at their back and side and front. Most defectors should know that you can't trust a foreign government. What you can trust is individuals in that foreign government to keep their word not to sell you out.

Spies don't trust anybody except their handlers, and perhaps not even them. Spies are there to gather information and otherwise betray those that have given them their trust.

Lawyers don't like soldier's ethics because it is too personal, too much personal responsibility. Since a lawyer will never be personally responsible for executing an innocent man or freeing a guilty man, they don't really comprehend what this "personal responsibility" and integrity thing is all about. They aren't trained to. They have to let these things go if they wish to practice law. They'll let it go for professional ethics, which is a way of saying "non-soldier" ethics.

The spy tries to stay away from lawyers and the system, cause usually any system would try, sentence, and hang spies. The spy also can't quite fit in with the soldiers, cause the world of trust and bonding just isn't the spy's world. While a spy may acquire ethics concerning "leave no man behind", the spy essentially understands that everything except the information, is expendable.

The soldier values the mission and if there is a command from the system that says you must do the mission a certain way, the soldier will try to ignore the system in favor of doing the mission correctly.

And in the end, you know what the funny thing is? All three need each other, even though they can't stand to be in the same room with each other.

[Hollywood_Marine]

RFR, Nazario isn't in jail, Weemer and Nelson are in jail for refusing to testify. Weemer and Nelson are what happens when lawyers interject themselves into combat. This is combat, not a courtroom. If you want to question them, then, like the article says "justice demands such judgement by peers" Too many lawyers is exactly what's wrong with our country.

john, Ryan, I couldn't care less. If the story is true, terrorists died, so what? Maybe Weemer and Nelson aren't speaking because there is no way civilians would understand the fog of war.

SomeJarhead, then you understand why the grunts don't like or trust you, because you always question their judgement during the heat of battle. You're more lawyer than Marine. What about judgement by peers?

"His obligation (as an American) is to testify truthfully. His obligation (as a Marine) is do to so professionally. I suppose it's not something we'd expect you soldiers to understand..."

I wonder how many Marines agree with you about Nelson's obligation. If we had a roomful of Marines, I guarantee you would be very lonely. You're right about this is bullshit, the entire case against these Marines is bullshit. No crime scene, no dead bodies, no grieving family members, just hearsay about dead terrorists.

Sure, leave the lawyering to lawyers.

And leave the combat to the grunts.

[RFR]

Hollywood Marine
Sgts. Weemer and Nelson are in jail because they’ve refused a lawful order from a Judge to give testimony. Because of their immunity, they have no legal right to refuse, and are facing the same punishment any citizen would face in similar circumstances. It’s been the law in the U.S. since the founding that the Government can compel testimony by way of an immunity grant, and defiance of that order is punishable by jailing. Sgts. Weemer and Nelson will be tried for this alleged shooting of unarmed prisoners in their court martial, so they will be judged by their peers. (I’m not saying they are guilty of misconduct during combat, the allegations are troubling and what really happened isn’t at all clear).
The case is troubling because two decorated combat veterans (Weemer and Nelson) have stated that they shot unarmed prisoners along with Sgt Nazario. (Sgt Nazario flatly denies this occurred). I have no idea which one of the sides is correct, but when did the statements of two Marines become BS? The word of 2 US Marines is the entire basis of the case, so I’m not sure the case can be fairly characterized as BS.

[Blackfive]

I posted an update...especially for the lawyers.

[SomeJarhead]

Nice to see these men out for the weekend, but doesn't excuse their conduct. Wonder who the Captain in the photo is...

I think it's disingenuous and awfully unfair for Ymarsakar to say that lawyers "don't really comprehend what this "personal responsibility" and integrity thing is all about," considering the extent and nature of our professional ethics codes.

I also think it's also unfair to say that the warfighter doesn't trust (or will ignore) the system. After all, the Corps is as system as it gets, and the Army has a bureaucracy that is second to none. You have to agree with that much.

Is the civilian prosecutor out of line on this one? My gut says yes but I have no idea. At this point I also don’t care – there’s plenty of time to go after him for getting out of his box. The prosecution (or persecution, take your pick) of Nazario is a separate issue, and may be as much a circus as the Haditha cases have turned out to be. These things take time.

Still, there's nothing wrong with trying to find out what happened. Let me ask you this: Would it be different if the person looking for sworn testimony about what happened was a civilian investigator working for the Marine Corps (or Naval) Inspector General? Or an Article 32 hearing officer?

There are about 500 lawyers in the Corps, and you better believe we love our Marines and put their welfare first. It’s why we wear the uniform. But nothing changes the fact that this issue is bullshit. Congratulations on successfully bullying a civilian judge.

[SomeJarhead]

HollywoodMarine:

"You're right about this is bullshit, the entire case against these Marines is bullshit. No crime scene, no dead bodies, no grieving family members, just hearsay about dead terrorists."

Just on this note... I am often amazed at how poorly we treat our Marines.

The smallest bonuses, the oldest bases and gear, the constant doing-more-with-less, and the strictest discipline, and then the distruct when something goes wrong.

It's not the lawyers - we're as stuck as the Marines who are getting accused (and increasingly unjustly so). It's the commanders. They drive the bus, and somehow they've forgotten how hard it is to fight a war - if they ever knew.

Some of us (lawyers) have the distasteful job of prosecuting these Marines who went to war for their country. Some have the privilege of defending.

Others stand at the sidelines, watching and learning - as prosecutions fall apart and Marines are exonerated. Because we're sure as hell going to make sure our Marines, and our Corps, don't get treated this way again.

S/f

[mekan]

Look, I know there are bad Marines and soldiers out there that need to be prosecuted. But in a shooting war and what happens in a shooting war a military man or woman should be judged by the military. Anything else is BULLSHIT!

Now, if this was a trial about a Marine raping a civilian on US soil I would feel differently about this issue at hand, but it is about something that happened in Iraq and God love Sgt. Nelson for keeping his tongue.

I don't know the Marine lawyers chiming in here and can not tell if they are good Marines or just typical political officer weasels. Murtha was a Marine too and he isn't worth the shit I flush down the toilet.

[thebronze]

This whole thing stinks to high hell!

The story refers to Gen Mattis. I no longer have ANY respect for him. He sold out the Haditha Marines, so why does anyone think that he would do anything differently in this case?

As far as Weemer goes, I hope he rots. He was the f*cking tool that got this whole witch-hunt started in the first place! He blabbed his dis-loyal pie-hole about something that probably wasn't even a crime in the first place. He's ruined a whole lot of people's lives for the lies that he's told. I hope he pays dearly.

As far as Marine lawyers caring about their fellow Marines? Give me a f*cking break! You'd sell your fellow Marines out in a NY minute. Sell that to someone else, I ain't buyin' it! And Jarhead Lawyer, you lost ALL credibility when you implied that Soldiers don't know anything about Honor and Professionalism. You're a pathetic excuse for a Marine.

The current leadership in the Marine Corps is a disgrace.

Semper Fi to those that rate.

[Hollywood_Marine]

SomeJarhead, "professional ethics codes"...I just puked in my mouth. Don't tell me about the extent of your professional ethics codes, are you serious? You're drinking too much of your own kool-aid. And don't pretend to know what it's like in the grunt battalion. You care not about the truth, you are a lawyer, grunts will always question your motives. And BTW, the "other" person looking for sworn testimony was a civilian investigator, NCIS Special Agent Mark Fox, a low-life intent on screwing Marines. Don't try to tell me how much you lawyers "love our Marines and put their welfare first". Fucking vomit.

And a personal message to thebronze....Weemer may have been weak on the box, but he just spent three weeks in the pokey with some pretty bad dudes. He didn't testify. He proved himself in combat. Him and Nelson have giant horse balls for standing up for what's right and I would take them in my squad any day.

I hope Weemer and Nelson are knee deep right now. They deserve it.

[Ken]

Here's the part I don't understand:

"MEJA allows a service member serving overseas to be prosecuted in civilian court for offenses that call for more than one year of imprisonment."

Is that true? I thought MEJA was just for contractors. If not, how the hell are you supposed to fight a war if every time you go on patrol you are exposing yourself to a MEJA charge?

[thebronze]

HM,

I understand what you're saying, but the way I see it, he's the cause of all this BS in the first place. He deserves everything he gets, in my opinion.

I haven't done enough research on Nelson, but he may be in the same boat. I don't know.

As to your remarks about lawyers, I agree 100%.

[thebronze]

To add: Weemer didn't have the good sense to keep his trap shut when it counted and now all of sudden he doesn't want to say anything? F*ck him!

[YatYas]

Although, I understand these Marines might be wary to testify before people that might wrongfully find them at fault for something that was legally done or might have been accidental; not testifying is BS. I read and enjoy this blog almost everyday, but even in combat there has to be rules. I have no problem killing those that need to be killed, but rules are so we don't wind up with a mob or behave like those we fight against. Also, that little story referencing "Judicial Waterboarding" is the same type of BS, I would expect the leftists (like Kos) to use not serious Marines. I guess if the soldiers involved in the raping of the Iraqi girl and the killing of her and the family refused to testify against each other that would have been okay also.

[Hollywood_Marine]

YatYas, you're not a very good guesser

[YatYas]

Hollywood_Marine, what is the difference, since this whole story seems more about that troops should not have to testify against each other about incidents during a war.

[Blackfive]

YatYas - reread the article and the links.

The difference is that those soldiers were tried by the military. These Marines will be tried by the military. This is a case of the courts using MEJA to go after military people with no limitations.

During WWII's Battle of the Bulge, American soldiers found out that the Nazis were killing all prisoners...after that, there were no German soldiers captured during the Bulge.

Why don't we round up all of those soldiers and prosecute them, too, in a civilian California court?

[Maggie45]

Matt, thank you for letting us know about their release. A "thank you" has been sent to the judge. Also God bless Mr Low again.

[YatYas]

Blackfive, I stand corrected on the overall story being this should not be handled by a civilian court. Totally agree this should be handled by a military court and hopefully they are found to be justified in their actions. My problem was with some comments which make it sounds like Marines should not have to testify against each other such as "Just as a wife cannot be forced to testify against her husband, neither should a Marine be forced to testify against a wartime buddy." As far as the Battle of the Bulge, I'm sure some Germans were shot trying to surrender and those responsible should have been punished at the time by the military. Without a doubt the media, politicians and alot of other people (Code Pink, IVAW) have rushed to judge serviceman as guilty in these incidents for mainly political reasons and without caring about the lives they ruin.

[susan]

My question still is, Why and on who's authorization was the original question that started this shitstorm asked?
It just doesn't pass the smell test.
Why would anyone ask "Did you ever witness an unlawful death in Fallujah?
Was Fallujah the only place he ever served? I doubt it.
Why pick Fallujah out of a hat?
Someone was on a fishing expedition?
This sounds like an interrogation to me.
The questioner was asking him to incriminate himself. (Witnessed a crime without reporting it)
Once he answered in the affirmative, they had to give him his criminal rights. Or am I wrong? Did they?
Who were the witnesses to the polygraph?
I'm not a lawyer but this stinks.
The normal questions would have been:
1. Have you ever smoked pot?
2. Done illegal drugs?
3. Committed a felony?
4. Declared bankrupsy?
Then asked the same questions differnt ways.

As I said in the beginning, for someone to come up with that question, I'd want to know who was standing on the other side of the two-way mirror.

I think a Marine somewhere down the line must have stolen Investigator Mark Fox's girlfriend.

This is a witchhunt or vendetta.

I would appreciate it, if a lawyer on this board would answer.

[douglas]

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger"

"Douglas, what this part of the amendment means is that you can't be held for a felony without first obtaining a grand jury indictment. The grand jury indictment is not necessary in cases involving the military in actual service. Technically, Sgt Nazario got more rights to which he was entitled, which is not a bad thing at all."

Funny, I thought the implication of that part of the Fifth Amendment meant that thsoe serving in uniform should be left to Military courts, not indicted by civilian grand juries. Perhaps the Judge agrees with me? What else could his reasoning be based on, legally?

Not a bad thing? Those extra rights aren't worth much if you're being tried by the wrong people, and in a system that uses different punishment standards.

I'm just glad to hear that he's been released, and it will be left to the military courts, where it belonged in the first place.

[Davod]

maybe there needs to be a background check on the prosecuter. Any Arab money involved?

[RFR]

Susan,

Good questions. Here’s a quick summary, if you go through Blackfive’s old posts, he goes into far more depth. Basically, Sgt Weemer was interviewing for a Secret Service protection job, and was polygraphed as part of that process I think the question may have been “Did you ever witness a wrongful death?” (I’ve seen it reported both ways.) Not sure what kinds of questions are standard, but, I’d expect a Secret Service interview to be thorough. Sgt Weemer made statements to the effect that his unit shot captured insurgents, and spawned an NCIS inquiry. SGT Nelson made similar statements to NCIS investigators. SGT Nazario, the squad leader, has flatly denied his squad shot prisoners. Weemer and Nelson are facing court-martials, Sgt Nazario’s contract term is up, so he is being tried in civilian court. Not sure whether Weemer or Nelson were given a Fifth Amendment warning, the reporting hasn’t mentioned it one way or the other.