Heyman On Teixeira

With Lowell and Youk both on board through 2010, Drew on until 2011 and Manny likely to get an extension/new contract this season/winter where do you put Tex for the Red Sox?

peter,

Don't you know that all high priced free agent talk must include: both NY teams, and Boston without regard to practicality.

Tex is a good player, but he's not a 200/10 player, but with Boras as his agent, I'm sure there's a team out there that will believe that he is. I'm not sure what a career 129 OPS+ will get you these days, but it seems like $20M a year for 10 years is way too much.

I just don't understand how Tex should be paid more than Berkman or Pujols. He's not in either of those guy's class.

I say $75M/5 plus an option year or two. It's not like he's playing SS or CF.....

"peter,

Don't you know that all high priced free agent talk must include: both NY teams, and Boston without regard to practicality."

D'OH!! Forgot Rule #7 of FA rumors again.

From Heyman:

"Red Sox. There's some thought they could agree to trade Manny Ramirez, move the versatile Kevin Youkilis to leftfield and import Teixeira. Boston execs do like the idea of getting younger. However, Ramirez is such a hero now in Boston that it might be tough to move him out of town. 20-1."

I was pleased to see that Heyman's comments about Baltimore were balanced, for a change. For a change, he didn't take a gratuitous pot shot at Peter Angelos.

Yanks have 80M coming off the payroll next season from their bigger contracts (Giambi, Moose, Abreu, Pettite, Pavano, and Farnsworth). Assuming they resign Pettite (highly likely), resign Abreu or Burrell (probably), and if you approximate raises they'll have 35-40M to play with (assuming they stay at a 210M payroll). Getting Texeria and Sabathia isn't a wild shot in the dark.

I think it will really be down to them or the Mets. Mets have 40M coming off the books with Delgado, Pedro, Alou, etc. After that... I don't think any of the dark horses can really compete.

Burrell doesn't fit; they wouldn't have anyone capable of playing RF.

"Don't you know that all high priced free agent talk must include: both NY teams, and Boston without regard to practicality."

Thats actually completely unfair, you must be a bitter fan of a small payroll team. These teams usually (few exceptions with the Yankees) dont pursue players that they dont need. And if you are going to throw Boston in there, why not Detroit. Payroll this year the Tigers and Mets are higher than the Sox.

I think the Yankees have enough 1B/DH players. Also after seeing Giambi falter during much of his contract I just do not see them throwing 10 years and $200 mil at Teixeira. I can see them moving Posada to 1B though.

But seeing the O's inability to score runs I know they will try to get Teixeira. Its not like Millar is the ideal clean up hitter.

Tek's value is that he is a switch-hitter with power form both sides of the plate and a gold glove at 1B. But unless he has a big years, he won't approach the numbers suggested. Right now, he's not doing anything special. If he finishes at .280-25-90, he'll get 7 years @ $17 per.

Sorry that should have said "Tex". Varitek ("Tek") will be lucky to get 3 years, $8-10 per.

What are the Yanks going to do with Posada if they sign Tex? Anyone really believe that Jorge will be behind the dish in 2 years? Couple that with the fact that their entire team (except Cabrera and Cano) are on the wrong side of 30 and I can see the DH spot being occupied fairly frequently.

Red Sox don't make sense to me either. They have enough players to rotate in the 1B/3B/DH role.

Met's have money coming off the books but they also need to replace Perez and Martinez to go along with a 1st baseman.

I think Tex could be in for quite a surprise. Several potential suitors six months ago now appear to be out of the running. If nothing big pops I wouldn't be shocked to see Tex take a shorter contract and try his hard again at FA a few years later (see Furcal).

bjsguess:

quite right, the Yanks will HAVE to play Posada at 1B next year, no fit in the Bronx for Tex. CC in '09

I don't see the Braves signing Tex long-term. But you have to wonder if he'd go for a one-year arb deal with Atlanta for 2009 if he (meaning Boras) isn't blown away by the multiyear offers.

The Braves might go for that, tho they refused to give Andruw the same option last year. (And am I happy they didn't!)

bjsguess, you have a point about Posada, but there's always the possibility that Steinbrenner will be short sighted, fire Cashman, and get Tex... especially if no trophy goes to the Bronx again.

Red Sox make more sense without Ramirez the way Heyman laid it out. Tex at first, you're not losing the defense at first but you're getting a younger producer to take Manny's spot in the line up. Still don't see it happening.

It is disgusting to me to see a player like Teixeira, who is arguably not even the top 5 at his position in the majors, being discussed to make 200 million dollars. I wouldnt even want to give him 100 million. Nothing personal aganst Tex, but I dont think he is a 20 million dollar player to begin with, then take into account that he is playing at the most loaded position in the game. We have had this discussion before, but here we go again.

In no particular order...

Mark Texeira
Carlos Delgado
Nick Johnson
Ryan Howard
Derrek Lee
Prince Fielder
Albert Pjuols
Lance Berkman
Joey Votto
Adrian Gonzalez
Conor Jackson
Todd Helton
James Loney
Casey Kotchman
Jeff Clement
Daric Barton
Jim Thome
Paul Konerko
Frank Thomas
Carlos Guillen
Miguel Cabrera
Billy Butler
Ryan Garko
Travis Hafner
Justin Morneau
Jason Giambi
David Ortiz
Kevin Youkilis
Carlos Pena

Look at how many good to great 1B that there are right now either leaving the league, just entering the league, or in the prime of their careers. When there are that many good 1B options out there, and there are more coming in every year, it seems ridiculous to spend that type of money on a 1B who isnt even hands down the best of the group. The only 1B in the league right now I would want on my team for even 100 million dollars is Albert. It just seems really silly, but somebody will give him his 200 million, I just hope its not the Mets.

I could see the Yankees looking into getting Howard. He seems like the kinda guy they would want.

But the big deal is the fact he will be a Free Agent before the age of 30. How many players make it to Free Agency? Let alone under 30? But he is a switch hitting, gold glove, power hitting 1B.

My guess is the Mets will end up with Nick Johnson or else look to trade with LAA for one of their 1B options. Maybe even go after a Mike Jacobs, but I doubt that they would make the mistake of making one big splash in an off season where there were lots of holes to fill for the second year in a row.

Does Heyman even take himself seriously anymore?

Picture this, the NL gets the DH, the Phils sign Tex, and Howard DH's.

Picture this, the NFL allows 2 QB's at once, the Giants sign Favre, and him and Eli tickle eachother's balls.

I know it was crazy but it is more likely.

Oh and anyway, for the record, I'm not a Phils fan.

I think it would be a mistake for the mets not to go after this guy. Not many players of his quality reach free agency with good years ahead of them. He can be counted on to be a solid first baseman that a team like the mets can sign for a DRAFT PICK. I know its alot of money, but to get another better option at first, the mets will have to give up the farm.

Or they can just use a draft pick to draft one of the 5 or 6 really talented 1B this year, and have them for a fraction of the cost. If you draft well, finding an all star 1B is not out of the question. They are literally everywhere and Tex isnt even that special. If it is me, there are 5 firstbasemen in the NL Central alone I would rather have all things considered. Sign Nick Johnson for half the price, trade for Kendry Morales who will mash when he finally plays. When you have all the talent that the MLB does at 1B, there are probably 15-20 firstbase options I would rather have then Tex at 20 mil per year.

nrmax, you say there are a lot of good 1B options out there, but how many of them can really be had.

I'd say the following are absolutely off limits: Lee, Fielder, Pujols, Berkman, Cabrera, Hafner, Morneau, and Ortiz.

The following would only be available as large part of a package for an ace or to go after them alone would probably be costly prospect wise because their teams aren't eager to deal them: Johnson, Votto, Gonzalez, Jackson, Loney, Kotchman, Clement, Barton, Butler, Garko, Youk, and Pena.

The following are getting old: Delgado, Thomas, Thome, and Giambi

Which leaves your list at: Texeira, Howard, Helton, Konerko, and Guillen. Some of which, their teams have no need to trade them so they'll cost more than it's worth.

Which brings us to an interesting question of baseball economics. How many prospects before its worth more? At what point where you're trying to pry away say Adrian Gonzalez is it just worth more to pay Texeria the 20M.

Mark Teixeira is one of the most over-rated players in all of baseball. No way his career numbers support 10 years/200 million, even if both NY clubs get into a bidding war over the guy.

Teixeria's just never turned the corner from being a merely good player (which he is) to becoming a dominating, stud-type among-the-best at his position monster, which I just don't ever see him becoming. And remember, he played in a very hitter-friendly ballpark for almost his entire career.

If he's not a superstar now, then when? Unless someone gets really stupid and takes the bait, no way this guy is getting that kind of payday.

I would argue that Adrian Gonzalez is absolutely off limits as well. He is far and away their best position player, and he's still young. He's showing continued improvement as a hitter and is a great defensive 1B. No way he gets dealt by the Pads.

Legitimately, the only first baseman who are actually AVALIABLE are guys like Nick Johnson, Scott Hatteberg, Rich Aurilia, Ben Broussard, and guys like that. Obviously things could change over the next few months but I doubt that any of the guys that start wearing purple listed get moved, outside of Nick Johnson.

nrmax, what does their salary matter to fans? We already know tickets are going to be expensive at citifield, I'd rather just have tex pluged into the lineup than give up prospects for a guy like morales. The guys in the draft won't help for a few seasons, and most of the teams with a good 1st baseman don't need to dump them. The trend in baseball is to lock up your good young talent well before they reach free agency, and less quality guys in their prime are reaching free agency. If a guy this good can be had for nothing, jump on him.

I know this has nothing at all to do with the post, but I was just wondering if anybody who reads ESPN caught this gem from Steve Phillips in an article about how to save the Reds:

"Have owner Bob Castellini ring Hank Steinbrenner and tell him you've got a way to move Joba Chamberlain into the Yankees' rotation. Offer Jared Burton, who's whiffing hitters in bunches, and Jeremy Affeldt for Phil Hughes. Sell Burton as Chamberlain's eighth-inning replacement and Affeldt as the situational lefty the Yanks lack. Throw in Arroyo if they want. Make it an owners deal. Castellini and Hank will love it; GM Brian Cashman will hate it. The bottom line is that Aaron Harang, Johnny Cueto, Edinson Vólquez and Hughes would give Cincy four very different looks."

PHIL HUGHES FOR JARED BURTON AND JEREMY AFFELDT?!? I mean I'm sorry but how the hell was this guy a GM, and now a writer? Yeah lets just call up the Yanks and offer them a bunch of worthless crap for a guy that the Yankees were hesitant to move for the best pitcher in the game. I know that Phillips is kind of a moron, I've witnessed it on ESPN many a time, but to publish this as a legitimate idea is nuts. He has to know that this is one of the dumbest things he's ever wrote. Or any baseball person for that matter. I mean just. C'mon.

I’m with Nrmax on this one ~ its 1B! Why would anyone spend 150+M or sign-up for 8+Years of a first-baseman? Well, I could see it if it was Pujols, but not anyone else; the production level just isnt that dramatically different enough from the upper to bottom tier at that position.

I mean, to try to put it in perspective we can take a look back to 2006. That season, one of the great 1B in the game was Broussardo Benrez ~ err, the Edguardo Perez / Ben Broussard platoon in Cleveland. Well, they were up until they were traded to Seattle. Check out the combined first half line for that platoon, which the Tribe got for less than 5M:
.325 / .367 / .563 / .930 with 22 Dbl, 19 HR, 57 Runs and 63 RBI in 332 AB.

Point is ~ its FirstBase!!! Throw a smoke-bomb into the GreenMonster and I bet a couple 1B fall out. Sign someone who can actually hit Lefties and give Carp a shot ~ it will cost you less than 2M and you wont be committed to paying a fortune for it over the next 8+ years!

“Legitimately, the only first baseman who are actually AVALIABLE are guys like Nick Johnson, Scott Hatteberg, Rich Aurilia, Ben Broussard, and guys like that. Obviously things could change over the next few months but I doubt that any of the guys that start wearing purple listed get moved, outside of Nick Johnson.”

…If anything, that little fact will probably make it easier to find a 1B. How? Well, there will be fewer teams looking to fill that hole ~ meaning young players who are limited to that spot will be easier to get your hands on. Seriously, (to go back to the Indians real fast) just offer the Indians a Low-A project-type pitcher for Jordon Brown, try him out for a year and tinker with the position throughout the year if needed. Or do what you can to sign Dunn and move him to 1B. Or just take the scrapheap guys and make yourself a platoon off the cheap until you develop someone (or are even forced into one by having to move an OFer to that spot.)

I see Kendry Morales as a guy that could get moved by the Angels. Kotchman is locked in at first, and the DH spot will always be filled by one of their outfielders (Guerrero, Anderson or Juan Rivera). At this point it makes sense for the Angels to move Morales while he's still a legit young prospect with good potential and trade value. He could likely net them a good pitching prospect or two, and those never hurt. Considering that Adenhart and Nick Green are nearly MLB-ready, that leaves the Angels with essentially Jordan Walden and some decent prospects in guys like O'Sullivan and Marek. There is little point in the Angels continuing to hold onto young players that have no use for. Morales turns 25 in June, he's the same age as Kotchman. If I was Reagins I would try to move Morales for a near MLB ready pitcher, or a young and projectable outfielder.

And another idea for Morales: The Rangers
Texas has no first base options but has a great farm system and some good players on their roster. It appears that Gerald Laird will be dealt by the deadline to make room for Salty, so the Rangers will need someone to take over at first. The Rangers also have a raw projectable outfielder in Engel Beltre, the type of potential stud that the Angels could covet.

Scribbletone, we have a great 1B prospect in Chris Davis who's probably going to be up with the big team next season if not as early as the 2nd-half of this season. We all knew that with Teixeira gone our 1B'men this season would merely be stopgaps until Davis is ready, so we're not fretting about the position as we know it's only a temporary situation going on there. Morales is a nice player, but don't need or want him.

"Mark Texeira
Carlos Delgado
Nick Johnson
Ryan Howard
Derrek Lee
Prince Fielder
Albert Pjuols
Lance Berkman
Joey Votto
Adrian Gonzalez
Conor Jackson
Todd Helton
James Loney
Casey Kotchman
Jeff Clement
Daric Barton
Jim Thome
Paul Konerko
Frank Thomas
Carlos Guillen
Miguel Cabrera
Billy Butler
Ryan Garko
Travis Hafner
Justin Morneau
Jason Giambi
David Ortiz
Kevin Youkilis
Carlos Pena

Look at how many good to great 1B that there are right now either leaving the league, just entering the league, or in the prime of their careers."

Uh, Thome, Ortiz, Hafner, , and Thomas are DH's while Giambi is a butcher at 1B, Clement is a C, and why do you have two Tigers Cabrera and Guillen playing 1B?

Purple, on your list, only Pujols is a sure-fire better player. Howard & Big Papi (not this year so far, however) are the same, slighly better with the bat but not as good with the glove and Kotchman is pretty damn good. But I would say Tex is worth $17 mil per seeing as Pujols would fetch $25 per on the open market right now.

darkstar,

Correct. Serviceable 1B can be had. If Tex walks, the Braves could take the draft picks and find a replacement ... or (here's an idea) move Kelly Johnson to first and let Lillibridge play second. And use some of Tex's salary to address other needs.

I think the Braves have a decent chance here. Nobody plays in Atlanta and says it was a bad experience, and he's gotta love teaming with Chipper in the middle of the order. The Braves are a contending team, so there's that appeal. The Braves have a lot of money coming off the books after this season, and the ownership has said they're willing to spend some more money on the team (though they won't say how much, of course). Atlanta has a good shot at him if they want to try..

"Scribbletone, we have a great 1B prospect in Chris Davis who's probably going to be up with the big team next season if not as early as the 2nd-half of this season."

I thought Chris Davis was a third baseman. Or at least he is in the BA Handbook and BP. I know you guys already have Hank Blalock though, so third base is blocked. Obviously Davis has serious power potential and could likely be a solid first baseman, but his bat is more valuable at third. It'd make more sense for this team to let Blalock reestablish some value and then move him, as well as Michael Young. This offense needs to be built around the nucleus of Hamilton, Salty, Kinsler, Davis, Andrus and Teagarden. Move Blalock this offseason, give the job to Davis, and repeat that after 2009 with Young and Andrus. An infield with Kinsler, Andrus and Davis should be pretty fuckkkking good.

Unless Tex is hitting 300+ with 40+ bombs he is worth between $15-17m over 5 years.

The guy is a legitimate threat in the middle of a lineup. The problem is that the teams that can afford a player like that already have cheaper options in house.

Moving Morales to the Mets makes so much sense. I can't believe that the Angels and Mets haven't figured out a reasonable package yet.

"nrmax, you say there are a lot of good 1B options out there, but how many of them can really be had."

You missed the point completely. If every other team can have an atleast league average guy at 1B, in a lot of cases there are offensive stars at 1B all around the league, you should never pay a guy 20 mil a year because there will be more, many more very productive 1B. My point wasnt that those guys can be had. My point is that it isn't just some weird coincidence that there are offensive machines all over playing 1B. It isnt just an abberation for this generation. There are always productive 1B to be had, in the draft, from latin america, from wherever. It is a bad use of your resources to shell out 20 mil a year for Tex when there are guys who can atleast be comparable who can do it for a fraction of the cost of Tex. The solution is simple for the Mets if they want a 1B. They have 2 first round picks, take on of the stud 1B that fall to them, and sign Hatteberg or somebody else for next year as a stop gap. Or like I said, make a trade for Morales who is a offensive weapon who has no spot. The oppurtunities are endless for finding a firstbaseman. Handing out a 200 million dollar contract to any 1B not named Albert is just plain lazy in my opinion.

"nrmax, what does their salary matter to fans? We already know tickets are going to be expensive at citifield, I'd rather just have tex pluged into the lineup than give up prospects for a guy like morales. The guys in the draft won't help for a few seasons, and most of the teams with a good 1st baseman don't need to dump them. The trend in baseball is to lock up your good young talent well before they reach free agency, and less quality guys in their prime are reaching free agency. If a guy this good can be had for nothing, jump on him"

Because whether you like to admit or not, the Mets are not just an endless money pit that can pay every big time player they want. And when you have 2 openings in your rotation, an opening at 1B, who knows at 2B, possible opening in LF if Nando isnt ready, it is just stupid to spend 20 million dollars that can be spent so much better elsewhere instead of on a very good (not great) 1st baseman. How many prospects do you think Morales will cost? He has no spot an still isnt proven. We wont be able to steal him, but it wont be a farm buster. And also, you bring up the question...

"what does the salary have to do with the fans?"

Sorry, but a lot of Met fans are ridiculous morons, so I honestly dont care what they think. If it was up to Met fans, we would have some crazy combination of huge free agent contracts (Zito, Shcmidt, Soriano, Lee), and a bunch of AAAA players (Angel Pagan, Ruben Gotay, Jason Phillips) and a 4th place team, so I dont really care how the fans would react. The fans wanted Omar fired when he wouldnt give Zito his own small country in the caribbean somewhere and let him go to SF. They called him a joke for not signing Schmidt. And oh yeah, if Tex was playing for the Mets right now, he would probably be getting booed unmercifully. So yeah, what the fans want/think is not one of my concerns when I talk about (what I hope will be) the future plans of the Mets. And I call BS on the idea a college 1B cant help for a long time. A guy like Alonso could be up as soon as mid 2009, or for the start of 2010. I would rather wait one year with a stopgap 1B and develop our own talent instead of just overpaying for everybodies elses homegrown, and in this case, overated talent.

The Angels DON'T trade "prospects" away. They'd rather have an All-Star AAA team then acquire adequate MLB needs.

Just ask Reggie Willits.

I think what nrmax is trying to say is that even though Teixeira is a great 1B, in comparison to the rest of the league he's just not difinitively better than alternative options out there. That large sum of cash is better used to add stud pitching or a stud outfielder, since those are far more rare.

Personally I think that the Mets should pass on Tex, and allocate that $20M to somewhere else. They can use the draft to try and hope that one of the big 1B falls to them (Alvarez, Smoak, Alonso, Hosmer). Brett Wallace is a decent backup plan if none of those guys fall to them. So how about signing Millar at $4M, and either Dunn or Burrell at 5/70.

SS Reyes (B)
2B Castillo (B)
CF Beltran (B)
3B Wright (R)
LF Dunn/Burrell (L/R)
RF Church (L)
1B Millar (R)
C Schneider (L)

Thats a great lineup. Speed and OBP at the top, power in the middle, and solid depth. A good mix of righties and lefties, with some switch hitters as well.

Pretty damn good lineup. Obviously its better with Tex, but this route lets you sign guys for less years and less money. Plus, Fernando Martinez should be ready to take over for Ryan Church by the end of 2009 hopefully, which would essentially leave first base (hopefully filled by '08 draft pick), second base and catcher as their long term holes on the field.

Plus that'd save them huge money long term, and this team needs that money to add starting pitching. Only Santana, Maine and Pelfrey can legitimately be penned into the '09 Mets rotation. They'll need to either resign Ollie or go after one of Sabathia, Sheets, Burnett or Lowe.

"Uh, Thome, Ortiz, Hafner, , and Thomas are DH's while Giambi is a butcher at 1B, Clement is a C, and why do you have two Tigers Cabrera and Guillen playing 1B?"

Wow, you really showed me. I honestly dont think you could have missed the point by more. Just because 2 player play on the Tigers, it is impossible that they are both possibilities for first base! That is flawless logic. And since you brought it up, Chris Davis technically is a 3B, so how is it even within the realm of possibility that he plays 1B for the Rangers at any point? I mean, Clement is a catcher so it is obviously out of the question for me to mention him as a 1B canidate, so why is Davis any different?

Yeah you can easily find a player that averages:

.285 .369 .534 or 100+ R 175+ H 39+ 2B 2+ 3B 36+ HR 119+ RBI

Just for reference, only 6 players hit 36 or more HRs last season. Only 7 players drove in more then 119. And Teixeira had 30 HRs and 105 RBI in less then 500 ABs last year.

But feel free to not want him. I still want him in an Orioles Uniform in 2009.

Wow, sensitive much? I forgot how defensive male dweebs can get when they get called out on mistakes. Reminds me of the male geeks in high school my girlfriends and I would laugh at...

I also love how people presume to know more about another person's team than a fan of that team. That's hilarious...

Take a look:

http://rangers.scottlucas.com/site/org.htm

Where's Davis listed at?

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?pl=448801

"As 1B..." Note how all of Davis' AB's have come as a 1B'man. In other words, Davis has played ZERO games at 3B this year and ALL of his games at 1B. Pretty sure that makes him a 1B'man.

http://ridersbaseball.com/team/stats/index.html?autoload=gamelog&gid=2008_05_06_mroaax_friaax_1&sportcode=aax

"Tommy Everidge pops out to FIRST BASEMAN Chris Davis."

Is it registering yet?

Davis' D at 3B is shaky which is why he's being moved to 1B. Another reason he was moved to 1B is that we have a nice 3B prospect in Johnny Whittleman only a year at most behind Davis, not to mention we hold an option for Blalock for the '09 season while there's a real possibility we extend him as he's still young and a decent hitter when healthy. Also, Davis has played ZERO games at 3B this year for Frisco. See, all you had to do was ask a Rangers fan, but of course like the geek you are, you just cite one general baseball source and subsequently presume to know everything about a team...

And you're the one that brought up that Cabrera and Guilen ARE both awesome 1B'men. You didn't mention "possibilities for" (nice lie trying to spin things to make you look like you said one thing when you actually said another). Saying "Look at all the great 1B'men..." then listing both Cabrera and Guillen means you are saying they ARE both 1B'men RIGHT NOW, right? Is that concept too hard for you to grasp? Only 1 is playing 1B right now. The other is playing another position. Therefore, only 1 right now is a 1B'man. That's logic.

Clement has played nary a game at 1B this year either with SEA or Tacoma

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?pl=459943

yet you have him listed as a 1B'man. He might play that in the future, but somehow he's a 1B'man RIGHT NOW? Ok then....

And funny how you don't apologize at all for saying Hafner, Thome, Thomas, etc. are 1B'men lol. Geeks do that, you know, never admit when they've made mistakes ...

Anyways, girls don't argue with geeks, we generally run away from them because of the smell so I'm done with you...

I am still amazed that no one picked up Jason Botts off of waivers. He has been poor at the major league level, but that has only been around 250 at bats spread over 4 years. In AAA last year, .980 OPS and he is only 27 years old and can play OF and 1B.

Rangerchick, there's no reason to stoop to name calling and insults. Most of the players you take issue with have been widely speculated to move to first in the short term or play very poor defense at their current position (Cabrera for example). Just because they don't currently play first doesn't mean a team couldn't sign/acquire the player with the intent to play them there.

The thing about paying Tex $200M is that he'd be the highest paid 1st basemen in the history of baseball, buy almost $5M per season. That's insane to think, because Tex isn't even close to the top 1st basemen in baseball.

He's a nice player, but he's made a living mashing in a hitters haven.

That said, Tex could get that big contract because there is always a team or two, sometimes more, that are willing to overpay. And I don't think Tex would be a bust, just not worth $20M a year, when much better 1st basemen like Berkman and Pujols are making less than $15M.

"Wow, sensitive much? I forgot how defensive male dweebs can get when they get called out on mistakes. Reminds me of the male geeks in high school my girlfriends and I would laugh at..."

Ok, so once again, you missed the point, by a lot. Big surprise. Anyway, why do you have to bring up the girl card? What does that have to do with anything? But anyway , what mistake did you call me out on? Did you somehow think I didnt know that Ortiz and Thome dont play 1B, that Clement is a catcher? That Delgado is a butcher, that Giambi sucks? Do you think you are providing me with some new information I wasn't privy to before? No, basically you just didnt read my whole post, and copied and pasted it before you finished reading so that you could point out my nonexistant mistake. If you kept on reading, you would understand I was just trying to point out that even if those guys no longer play 1B (Thome, Giambi, Hafner, Ortiz), they could if they were in the NL, and some of them had careers playing 1B. The fact that Clement is a catcher is not even relevant. He is an option at 1B for any team who needs a 1B (maybe thats why everybody talks about him being the Mariner 1B in 2009). I could have put Jeff Kent and Chase Utley on that list, it doesnt matter that they are both second baseman. The point is that there are lots of guys leaving the league right now who had good to great careers playing 1B (Thome, Delgado, Thomas, Giambi, etc.). There are very young players just coming into the league that look like that can br very nice players for a very long time (Loney, Jackson, Adrian, Barton, Votto, etc). Then there are guys in their primes who are outstanding 1B right now (Lee, Berkman, Pujols, Fielder, etc). And yes, I know it is possible that Chris Davis ends up as a 1B. that entire post was me being sarcastic. And again, I dont know why you keep on playing the girl card here. You say that I am over sensitive, yet then you proceed to call me a dweeb and a geek. Um, Okay? I remind you of the geeks in high school? Wow, that is like me saying, you remind me of the fat girl with the big gap in her teeth at my highschool that could never find a boyfriend so she sat around all day and tried to discuss baseball with the guys, but guys dont talk to fat chicks, so I'm done. That would be silly of me, no? Considering I dont know you?

I honestly dont even know why I am trying to argue because you obviously cant grasp the point. My pointwas not that they all play 1B right this second, and I still dont know why you are so hung up on this Guillen/Cabrera thing. They both have played at 1B already during this year, so what if they play on the same team? If you want to get into a semantical debate because you didnt grasp the point of the post, thats fine by you, but the point was to show that Tex is not worth a 20 million dollar per year contract, because anybody on that list was a 1B at some point, is a 1B right now, or is a possibility at 1B.

And also, I didnt even site any source, I looked up Chris Davis at Milb.com and BP, but I didnt site anything, so yeah.

But yeah, cool kids like me dont argue with fat redneck chicks, we generally run from them because they are fat and nasty. :) Tootles babe.

I'd lay money that Teixeira doesn't see 8 years and $140MM, that's $17.5MM per season, for those scoring at home! I bet he's lucky to get 6 years and $18MM, so maybe $110MM is reasonable to expect... He is turning 29 next season, so an 8 year deal would take him through 36 years old...

I think he'll want 6 or 10, but not 8... At least 5-6 gets him to re-sign while still in his prime, rather than trying to find another decent deal at 36-37 y.o. I think the Mariners only become an option for Teixeira depending on how Bryan LaHair does at AAA, if he keeps doing what he is, he'll be up before September...

If he falls off, then I'd be surprised if the Mariners don't try and impress Bedard and Beltre with their dedication to winning, so they can re-sign those guys before they walk after next year! The Yankees aren't a factor as Steinbrenner(pick one) will be getting tired of 200MM payrolls, luxury taxes, etc. and will say, do the best you can with 170MM or less... Especially with the new cost of stadium and having to pay that bill starting next season! Figure the Orioles, then the Mets, then Seattle...

Scribble, Dunn sucks at hitting in the clutch and strikes out A LOT!! I wouldn't bat him higher than 7th if I was a manager seriously... his RISP AVG was like .220s-.230s or something like that... I'd add Burrell in LF and Dunn at 1B... He has no career in LF as he's a butcher... I won't say he makes Cust look agile, but they could be distantly related cousins with their ridiculous power strokes from the left side and their defensive prowess or lack there of!!

I mean to say, Dunn will get 100 RBIs a season, but he's not really a run producer! He thrives off the homerun ball and so by virtue of there always being a chance at someone scoring on a hit from 1st base or him hitting a two run homer, he gets his RBIs, but it's usually pretty ugly... He does hit grandslams, but that's a fastball situation and that's never pretty for a pitcher!

Tex is coming home to Baltimore, Markakis will have protection finally, and the money is coming off the books to make it happen. B-More has been trying to get a legit threat for the middle of the order for a few years... signing Tex would be a great move for the organization on and off the field during a time when the O's need both badly. I don't know if Tex fits into MacPhail's plans, but I hope to see him swinging away for 81 games at Camden Yards in the summer of 2009!

O's13,

Signing Tex really does make a lot of sense for the O's. Hometown player, big run producer in a great hitter's park, etc. That's why it'll never happen. Unless Angelos sells the team between now and the end of the year.

Why would it never happen? Angelos wants Teixeira. Has for years. And after dealing big contracts last year and most likely after this year we will have pleanty to spend.

“If he falls off, then I'd be surprised if the Mariners don't try and impress Bedard and Beltre with their dedication to winning, so they can re-sign those guys before they walk after next year!”

…Hey look, the Mariners-Homer stopped by to tell us how it will actually be the M’s who land him… :\

“Scribble, Dunn sucks at hitting in the clutch and strikes out A LOT!! I wouldn't bat him higher than 7th if I was a manager seriously... his RISP AVG was like .220s-.230s or something like that...”

…Ya know seriously, do you even think about the things you say? Lets take a quick look at Dunn for the heck of it:

Dunn Car RISP ~ ..412 OBP / .460 SLG / .872 OPS...
Dunn ’07 RISP ~ .403 OBP / .411 SLG / .815 OPS…
Dunn Car M.On ~ .409 OBP / .509 SLG / .918 OPS…
Dunn ’07 M.On ~ .392 OBP / .552 SLG / .944 OPS…
Dunn Car BSLd ~ .323 OBP / .608 SLG / .931 OPS…
Dunn ’07 BSLd ~ .467 OBP / .750 SLG / 1.217 OPS…
Dunn Car 2 & 3 ~ .527 OBP / .471 SLG / .998 OPS…
Dunn ‘07 2 & 3 ~ .500 OBP / .556 SLG / 1.056 OPS…

…Yeah, when a guy posts an OBP between .400-.500 in almost all of the clutch situations, and generally an 900-ish or higher OPS… well…seriously, WFT are you talking about “sucks at hitting in the clutch”?

Really, you say just amazingly questionable things man. Maybe you should stick to your "Beltre and Sexson are first-ballot HOFers" argument; that way people might only think youre blinded by your obvious fandom instead of flat out ignorant...

“Yeah you can easily find a player that averages: .285 .369 .534”

…You do realize that the NL-Avg at 1B was .284/.365/.481/.846 in 07, right? But, if you feel those extra 50-ish or so OPS points are worth nearly 20M over 8 or more years; well… enjoy I guess…

The Orioles would be fools to sign the guy.

If you want to rebuild, here's how:

Step 1: Trade your high priced talent to receive salary relief and/or prospects (see Tejada/Bedard deals). Orioles still need to move Roberts, Mora, Hernandez, Huff, etc.

Step 2: Those that can't be traded get DFA'd to let the young kids develop. (see Gibbons and soon to be Millar).

Step 3: Draft well and spend your FA money wisely. Fill holes you have with low/moderate priced FA's.

Step 4: When a core group of talent is ready to contribute step up and make a big splash in FA to lock in the few remaining pieces.

The Orioles are all the way back in Step 1. They are in no position to be dropping $17-$20m/year on a player like Tex. Build your core of talent around Markakis and Jones. When you become respectable (2-3 years) then go after a Howard/Fielder type player.

I understand O's fans really want him to sign in Baltimore, but it's not very likely, and it wouldn't be a smart move. Besides, Tex probably wants to play on a contending team, and the O's aren't going to be there until his contract is halfway over, at the earliest.

Darkstar go back to sucking on your mom's tit... I SAID AVERAGE, YOU ILLITERATE PIECE OF DOG EXCREMENT!! How does drawing a walk have anything at all to do with driving in runs?! A runners on 2nd and there's 1 out, so they walk Dunn to get to x-y-z player, he didn't drive in a run, making him NOT a run producer, yet he has a great OBP. When have they ever shown a guys OBP with runners in scoring position during a game?! Mariners-homer, funny, what the hell does that mean... Is that something that shares the logic producer as "let's compare OBP-RISP" I swear to God the more you talk, the more I wonder whether the umbilical cord got wrapped around your next during birth!

You have to be the most idiotic, no self-esteem having, can't get laid in a room of fat chicks, still lives with mommy, erroneous stat giving, bottle fed, can't-wipe-his-own-ass moron culpable for the most unintelligent statements on this site! Could you even remotely stay within the realm of a related topic. I mean you're like the drunk guy picking up girls at the bar and you think with your liquid confidence that you are saying all the right things and due to your alcohol induced hallucinations you don't see the faces of the girls as they look with shock upon you for every uterrance of gibberish you make! You have no sense of reality, you are the quintessential form of a waste of space.

Oh and a side note, his AVG with RISP is .221 career with a couple hundred intentional walks thrown in there, that's gotta be good for some points on the OBP, huh?!

.188 career with a runner on 3rd and 2 outs, a true CLUTCH situation and .198 with runners at 1st and 3rd, no outs specified... A situation where you never want to walk the bases loaded, hmmm...

His most productive RISP situation is a runner on 3rd with less than two outs(grouping all other base situations with atleast a man on third base) and his second most is with the bases loaded.

Coincidentally his OBP drops to .323 in that situation... Maybe because they don't have a base to walk him to?! Hmmm, a question for the intelligent, Darkstar you better not try and answer, you could hurt yourself...

However when you look at AVG with a runner at 3rd and less than 2 outs, he hits .267 with 17 SF in 227 PAs/161 career ABs, which if the weren't a sacrifice and instead were just an out, his average would drop to .242, then factor out the bases loaded situations and that's not really that impressive!

I guess the .188 is more indicative of what you can expect, but you're right, it's a fluke that he's never had more than 106 RBIs in all his seasons while smashing 40 HRs numerous times! Good call!

“Darkstar go back to sucking on your mom's tit... I SAID AVERAGE, YOU ILLITERATE PIECE OF DOG EXCREMENT!! How does drawing a walk have anything at all to do with driving in runs?!”

…Oh yeah, I see your point now… Yeah, who looks at things like OBP and SLG when they want to know how well a player does? Seriously, when no one wants to pitch to a guy, it must be because he sucks… Got it man!

Oh, and yeah ~ when I have a guy that generally posts a .380-ish OBP and .500+ SLG, I want him in the 7th hole like you so he can get on base and compile all those extra base hits in front of the pitcher and with the bases empty from my 4-6 hitters!

“but you're right, it's a fluke that he's never had more than 106 RBIs in all his seasons while smashing 40 HRs numerous times! Good call!”

Oh ok, so it has nothing to do with the team around him or the fact that he gets pitched around almost constantly? In reality, he “only” compiles 100+ RBI yearly because he “sucks”, right? Again, got it man!

Also, love the “your moms basement” argument you have once again tried to use in your eternal attempt to find a point. Nothing says “I know what I’m talking about” like long, grade-school rants about how the other person must be a loser…

Guru, go smoke a joint or something pal. Chill out and relax.

Just trying to get inside your psyche and know where you pooper scooper of knowledge gathers your wisdom from! By the way, 7th is the only spot in the order where he hits higher than .270 career... Also, Tony LaRussa at one point had a guy named Mark McGwire bat 7th for all the same reasons I just listed... Wow and LaRussa is going to be in the HOF as one of the highest win totals for a manager in baseball history, but you clearly know more about it than him... Oh and it would actually make him "more productive" at driving in runs batting 7th because it would allow the 5 and 6 hole hitters to get on base rather than hitting after another 40 homerun guy, but good argument! Oh and their lineup is for the most part a bunch of studs going after 30-35 homeruns... Guys that are on pace to hit 30 this year: Votto, Phillips, Encarnacion, Dunn, and Griffey. That's pretty solid I'd say! So they must have a really awful lineup and so his 100 rbis when he has 4 guys hitting in front of him with 150+ hits - 30 HRs, that's 480 times plus walks, hbp, etc. where those guys are on and he gets 100 RBIs?! Are you the only one that doesn't think a guy with 40 HRs should have 130 RBIs?! Your RBI total should be atleast 65 if you are a regular, and then from there it should go up 3 RBIs for every 2 HRs. For example 20-25 HRs should yield about 100 RBIs. 30 HRs should yield about 110 RBIs. Point being that he should be driving in at least another run per five games and it's not happening... He's not a middle of the order hitter... If you flipped his HRs and 2Bs, you'd be saying it's crazy to have a guy hit 25 HRs, strike out more than once a game and bat him 5th with that RISP, but because he hits 40 HRs you are too stupid to ignore the stigma of batting HR guys 3-4-5 in your lineup. What a clown! The Mariners have a guy like Dunn in Sexson and guess where I want him batting even with how lousy they are playing... That's right 7th and he actually does a slightly better job of driving in runs! Still, you don't do that and the Mets are nowhere near desperate enough to endure Dunn 5th in their lineup... He may be a clown at 1B, but he'll just have to catch a thrown ball for the most part, not actually have to field a ball dropping 100-200 feet out of the sky... I'm just saying that he's more affordable then Teixeira and he probably solves their long term needs a lot better by giving them flexibility to get Howard when he becomes a FA making the Mets better and the Phillies worse with one signing... They can then move Dunn back to LF if they want... Get over it, I insulted you, pick up the broken pieces to your tender little heart and move on... It's okay, buck up little guy, someday you'll be big enough no one will pick on you! Until then get used to it, if you come after me I'll keep talking sh*t... It's not that I can't handle a counter argument, but you argue over some petty and unnecessary stuff where your comment isn't even valid... You're lucky someone doesn't break their foot off in your *ss for being such a douchebag all the time!

Oh and I love how you brought up the point about me talking about you living in your parent's basement... You were trying to say that's the second time I brought it up, yet you bring up the Sexson-Beltre argument like a broken record... You have some sad commentary... By the way, they walk a HR hitter on the off chance they make a mistake to him and he hits it out... It's like forcing him to take a single and no one gets an extra base. There's a better than 25% and as high as almost 33% chance he'll hit it out of the park if he gets a hit, so it's not a fear he'll be clutch, it's just not giving him the opportunity to put it out... If he hit 20 less homeruns a year he'd walk 50 less times a season, guaranteed! Bonds still had 100 RBIs with over 100 less ABs and twice the walks, so stowe that sh*t about he's so dangerous and productive... Dunn is Broussard with 20 more HRs a season and you want to bat him 5th in one of the best lineups in the league... You are stupid, so, so very stupid... I give up, I just can't be dumb enough to even argue against your point let alone fathom how you might make sense of the crap you spew!

Baseball Math 101, DimStar:

Each HR counts as 1 RBI, so he gets 50-60 RBIs a year that aren't a bonus for hitting one out... So you're saying that because he hit 40 HRs that makes him great?!

So it doesn't matter that he's one-dimensional, you think that makes him an All-Star?! How many times has he been an All-Star again?!

1 time and not once was that in a season where he hit 40 bombs, which he's done 4 times... Why is that, you said he's a "GREAT" player because he hits 40 HRs, I'm saying he's a 7th hole hitter regardless of how many flyouts go over the wall...

You are too stupid to associate value outside of the HR, so you must be in your mid to late 20s at the oldest... No young people appreciate real stats, just HRs, you poser...

You aren't even a real fan, you're a shadow of a fan... Do you even have a favorite team?! I've never once seen you support one team, you bash them all and your a pessimist to boot!

I've never once seen you be positive, never once seen you give credit for other people having a better argument, and I've never seen you argue something without using random stats that really have nothing to do with the initial statement...

Let's break this down ONE MORE TIME!! I SAID HE IS NOT A CLUTCH HITTER... YOU IN TURN MADE IT ABOUT HIM BEING A GOOD PLAYER... GOOD PLAYER DOES NOT EQUAL CLUTCH HITTER...

YOU CHANGED MY WORDS TO PICK A FIGHT AND THEN DISREGARDED THE ARGUMENT TO MAKE IT SOMETHING YOU COULD BITCH ABOUT!!!

I BRING UP AVG, THE TRUE VALIDATOR OF CLUTCH, IT'S NOT CLUTCH TO TAKE A WALK, THAT'S BASED ON THE PITCHER...

CLUTCH IS HITTING THE BALL AND 5 HOLE HITTERS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE YOUR BEST PURE RUN PRODUCER, 4TH IS YOUR BEST POWER HITTER, 3RD IS YOUR BEST OVERALL HITTER, 2ND IS YOUR BEST ALL-AROUND BAT CONTROL HITTER, 1ST IS YOUR BEST AVG HITTER...

THEY ALREADY HAVE THOSE SPOTS COVERED, SO THEY NEED TO MOVE DUNN BACK, HE'S EITHER 4TH OR 7TH, BUT NOT 5TH, HE'S TOTALLY WRONG FOR IT! I'M OUT... I REFUSE TO TEACH YOU BASEBALL FOR FREE ANYMORE!!

"You were trying to say that's the second time I brought it up, yet you bring up the Sexson-Beltre argument like a broken record."

Well yes, one of those subjects is baseball related, and one of them isn't at all. Do you need me to tell you which one is which? Discussing baseball is what you are supposed to do here. And besides your such a hypocrite its almost a joke. You talk about how he never comments on the topic, meanwhile everyday you tell us how the Mariners are going to become the best team in the history of the universe, and then rant on for an hour about how Clement is not even a prospect, and that he is way to good to have that status, because he is gaurunteed to be a perennial 30/100 guy til he retires. Then you preach how Sexson and Beltre are automatic lock first ballot hall of fame players. And you have the nerve to call other people ignorant?

"Could you even remotely stay within the realm of a related topic. I mean you're like the drunk guy picking up girls at the bar and you think with your liquid confidence that you are saying all the right things and due to your alcohol induced hallucinations you don't see the faces of the girls as they look with shock upon you for every uterrance of gibberish you make!"

You complain that he cant stay on topic, then IMMEDIATELY following your complaint you go on a tyrade talking about drunk people hitting on girls at a bar. I am glad you stayed on topic.

After reading your entire rant, and all the crazy crap you said, I just have one question.... are you the pot, or the kettle?

"So it doesn't matter that he's one-dimensional, you think that makes him an All-Star?! How many times has he been an All-Star again?!"

It doesnt seem to matter to you that Big Sexy is one dimensional. You have on mulitple occasions called him a lock hall of famer. So tell me, why is Sexson a lock hall of famer, and Dunn is a bumb, even though they are both pretty one dimensional hitters, with Dunn just being batter at it then Sexson?

"You are too stupid to associate value outside of the HR, so you must be in your mid to late 20s at the oldest... No young people appreciate real stats, just HRs, you poser..."

And you are way to immature to be much older then that either. You speak as if you are an adult, but then you curse and rant on like a 9th grader. I dont know, but if you are much older then your mid-late 20's, you should be absolutely embarrased for talking about people's mother's and families in a baseball blog just because they dont take your biased, stupid, ignorant, and clearly inaccurate information as fact. You say he must be young and ignorant, because he only cares about home runs. Lol. Well what does that make the guy that only knows how to respond with 100 line personal attacks on people, always has his facts mixed up, and curses and whines like a baby, then calls out a guy for being only in his 20's like that is some sort of insult.

Wow. Awesome thread. Darkstar pissing people off. Insults flyin' left and right. And my O's right there in the middle of rumor-central. Brings back warm and fuzzy memories of the Roberts non-trade.

Tex in Oriole orange? Hmmmm. Dunno. I understand the leeriness of some of the non-believers and there's still a lot that can happen between now and then, but I'll give it my own tentative approval.

bjsguess is right about the rebuilding plan and I truly DO believe that it's McPhail's intention to follow the playbook, step by step. Still, Angelos does what Angelos wants and he WANTS Tex. Hell, he wants Teixeira worse than he wants Brian Roberts' corn-hole and we all know the extent of his Roberts man-crush.

Tex ain't worth $200 mil on play alone and it's arguable he's worth anywhere near that regardless of extenuating circumstances, but the market will determine what he IS worth and, for Baltimore, it may be an acceptable price to pay. His bat would mean a lot as far as Markakis' growth- the protection it would afford Nick. In turn, it could affect the whole lineup, with particular mind paid to Adam Jones. Then there's the commitment to winning it demonstrates and the precedent it sets in terms of actually signing a decent Free Agent. We've been rebuffed by every guy to hit the market since Tejada! For once our owner and the persistent culture of losing won't knock us out of contention. Maybe it's OK to pony up, just to take advantage and let other FA's know that it's OK to sign with the O's.

And who says rebuilding HAS to be done exclusively via player development. So long as the club continues to dump the vets and build through the draft and whatnot, one big signing doesn't hurt. Of course, that's assuming Tex would come on board knowing that it could take some time before his new club could legitimately compete. He's just 28, so it isn't as if, by signing Teixeira, the Birds are abandoning the basic tenets of rebuilding...they're just tweaking them a bit.

All that being said, there are some caveats to such a deal. What if the O's get Pedro Alvarez in the draft, for instance? You could move Alvarez to left or try to keep him at third, but is all of that- and $200 mil- worth signing a first baseman other than Pujols? Probably not. Like I said, there's a lot that can happen between now and the time Tex hits the market and plenty of other deep-pocketed suitors.

Overall, between Angelos' interest, the relationship the club has built with Boras seemingly with a Tex signing in mind, and the hometown thing...along with the special circumstances that might justify such oddly timed over-spending, B'more COULD be the club willing to bend to Boras' exorbitant demands. At the very least, they'll put up a fight with the NY clubs. Just don't give me the old 'doesn't want to play for a losing team,' line. That may be true of some FA's, but this one is all about the $$$.

A couple of other quick thoughts:

1. For all the talk of 1B value and how easy it is to find 'em, I can't help but notice we have KEVIN FRIGGIN' MILLAR playing there for us. Rebuilding or not, when you've got a player you KNOW is going to give you plus production in the middle of the order while providing Gold Glove defense and enough of a PR punch to bring back the fans (believe it or not, this is an AWESOME baseball town; before Angelos, it was St. Louis-esque. Seriously! Ask some old timers; they'll tell you. It's not just the losing; it's the WAY we're losing...the greedy, soulless way that Angelos has taken the club hostage and...sorry.) you have to at least consider throwing your hat in the ring and anteing up.

2. KEVIN MILLAR!!!

3. Gotta love the whole 'I grew up in a big city,' B.S. quote Tex gave for the NY press. It's disturbing to see such pandering and blatant salesmanship. Teixeira is from Severna Park, MD...not Baltimore. Though it's close, Severna Park couldn't be further from Baltimore when it comes to big city life. Know how I know? I LIVE THERE!!! It's a friggin' suburb. No crime or poverty; no Chinese food delivery at 2AM; no crazy nightlife. People are in bed by 10PM. Grew up in a big city my a$$. Next thing you know, kid's gonna tell a Seattle paper how he loved grunge music growing up and always wanted to live in the Emerald City like Kurt Cobain. How transparent. ...Still want him on the O's, though.

Nrmax,

Ok, so I see another 3 posts and thousand some-odd words from “guru”; and it seems you actually went through the pain of reading atleast some of it… I myself don’t see the point of doing so anymore, and I’m really surprised you still do it! I mean, I can probably sum it up rather quickly:

Blah blah blah -you’re a loser- blah blah blah -grow up- blah blah blah -you cant get laid- blah blah blah -you pick your nose- blah blah blah -the Mariners are all HOFers- blah blah blah -you live with your mom- blah blah blah –Greg Brady played baseball- blah blah blah -so go screw yourself- blah blah blah -people in Europe have bad teeth- blah blah blah -you’re a loser- blah blah blah -Beltre is better than (insert random player)- blah blah blah -you don’t know what youre talking about- blah blah blah -Dunn only has a 2-something BA- blah blah blah –lol- (because you think you made a point) blah blah blah youre ignorant- blah blah blah…

So what do you think, does that about sum it up? I think I probably nailed that pretty well based off the track-record provided for us…

Anyway “guru”, I did read a couple sentences when you started the ALL CAPS CRAP, LIKE THIS; AS IF IT MAKES THINGS YOU SAY SOMEHOW CORRECT… When I read those couple sentences, I saw this:

“I SAID HE IS NOT A CLUTCH HITTER... YOU IN TURN MADE IT ABOUT HIM BEING A GOOD PLAYER... GOOD PLAYER DOES NOT EQUAL CLUTCH HITTER... YOU CHANGED MY WORDS TO PICK A FIGHT AND THEN DISREGARDED THE ARGUMENT TO MAKE IT SOMETHING YOU COULD BITCH ABOUT!!!”

…Humm, what?

What you had said:
“Scribble, Dunn sucks at hitting in the clutch and strikes out A LOT!! I wouldn't bat him higher than 7th if I was a manager seriously...”
&
“I mean to say, Dunn will get 100 RBIs a season, but he's not really a run producer!”

Now, I gave you the *stats* from his clutch situations ~ stats that showed he got on base 40-50% of the time in such situations and pounded the ball for a large to extreme SLG. I didn’t change your words, I didn’t change the subject ~ I did nothing but give the truthful results to the erroneous statements you made. I cant change the subject if it’s the subject you chose to talk about! And I cant change your words if you said them! See how that works?

But it seems you really are dead set on claiming that situations where a guy who can hit a bunch of groundball singles to LF when there was a runner on second is “clutch” but a guy being pitched around constantly, getting on base 40-50% of the time and still compiling 100+ RBI “sucks” in the clutch? So I ask, can you explain why pitchers would pitch around him if he “sucks” in the clutch? See, *that’s* pretty much what I said… So, let me ask again in extremely small and simple words which you might understand…

If a player “sucks” in the clutch, why would pitchers continue to pitch around him in that situation?

Get it? But what you are trying to tell us is that a pitchers mindstate basically would have to be one of “well, this guy cant hit in the clutch so I’m going to put him on base and face the next guy instead”. See, that wouldn’t make much sense for a pitcher to be thinking, would it?

Now, to the second part of it:
“I mean to say, Dunn will get 100 RBIs a season, but he's not really a run producer!”

…Please tell me how 100 Runs and 100 RBI basically guaranteed yearly from a guy hitting after the cleanup-hitter is not producing runs? I mean, I count 11 other guys doing it last year ~ and almost all of them were 3-4 hitters ~ not #5 guys. So, a guy hitting *after* the cleanup hitter who does something only a handful of players can pull off (100R/100RBI) is not “a run producer”??? Really? Yeah, lets think about that more real fast… 3-4 hitters “clean-up” the bases, Dunn comes up and gets on base at a 40-50% rate when someone is left, ends up driving in and scoring 100+ over the season ~ but he “isnt really a run producer”? Seriously?

Well, you’re a Mainers fan ~ can you name the last three guys to do it for the M’s? Oh, ok fine ~ I’ll help you out and let you know that Ibanez actually pulled it off in 2006, while Brett Boone managed it in 2001 & 2003. Other than that, you have to go back to Alex Rodriguez in 2000… So 3 Mainers in the last 8 years have been able to pull off what Dunn is basically guaranteed to do every year ~ but he doesn’t produce runs? I seem to recall you proclaiming Beltre to be a great R/RBI guy ~ and he averages about 80/90 while only managing 90(+)/100(+) *once* (that fluke 2004 season) So, how exactly does that work? Average 80/90 and you are a great producer but produce 100/100 constantly and you arent really a run producer? Seriously?

Lastly, because you seem to have missed it the first time:
“Also, love the “your moms basement” argument you have once again tried to use in your eternal attempt to find a point. Nothing says “I know what I’m talking about” like long, grade-school rants about how the other person must be a loser…”

Lmao. Some of you guys take this WAY to serious. But either way, Tex is a great second half hitter while often times his 1st half numbers suck. 10 years of that seems like a ridiculously large number to me. I say 6 years 108 million (18 per year). But unless he stays on a contending team or learns to start off hot, he'll continue to be talked about as a trade candidate every year at the deadline.