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Bill Clinton To Offer Mea Culpa

By Big Tent Democrat

President Bill Clinton will offer his regret regarding the tone of the campaign in South Carolina:

On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.

Does Clinton NEED to apologize? Perhaps not. But I think it is good he will. And not just for the Clinton campaign. I think it is good for the Democratic Party and the country.

It takes a big man to stand down sometimes, even if you are not sure you did anything wrong. The Big Dog is a big man. Good for him.

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    He doesn't need to apologize for anything. (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by TheRealFrank on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:10:53 AM EST
    But under the circumstances it's probably the best thing to do.

    What I'd like to see is a media apologize for the way that they've been treating him and his wife for years, and making people believe that he's some kind of racist.

    Yeah, I'm not holding my breath.


    It's good he did (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:16:57 AM EST
    Sometimes it is better to apologize even if it is not clear you did something that requires an apology.

    I think his Jesse Jackson comment deserved rebuke. But politics is politics.

    Anyway, I'm glad he is doing it.

    Parent

    the man is brilliant (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by english teacher on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:21:01 AM EST
    clinton apologizes or obama repudiates the media spin of the comment.  sorry, btd but this whole kerfluffle showed me obama has no integrity.  and i was for edwards.  he should have immediately called this out and stuck up for clinton's record instead of letting the distortion stand and try to take advantage of it.  when tested, he failed to practice what he preaches.  

    Parent
    if Edwards doesnt come out (none / 0) (#7)
    by athyrio on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:23:46 AM EST
    and denounce that advertisement taken from the GOP talking points and trying to destroy universal health care, than I have lost all respect for him....that makes me so sad.

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#11)
    by Nasarius on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:33:05 AM EST
    Obama said essentially the same thing in debates, and Edwards *repeatedly* tore him apart there. The only difference now is that instead of it being an awkward subject in debates, Obama is evidently stupid and stubborn enough to think that his bad policy helps him. So I'm not sure what more you want Edwards to do. Though I will lose my respect for him if he endorses Obama.

    Parent
    It Does Help Him Somewhat (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:02:27 PM EST
    It helps him with young, healthy adults who do not want to pay for insurance. They are a core element of his voters. That is the whole reason behind why his program allows some people to opt out and why he attacks Hillary's program.

    The fact that this will make everyone else pay more and might actually result in the program failing because it is cost prohibited is irrelevant.

    Parent

    many young people get married and (none / 0) (#53)
    by hellothere on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:32:21 PM EST
    have children. everyone needs insurance today as you just never know if someone will hit your car or your child may have a serious issue. i never expected to go out in a car one night on a date when i was fresh out of college and end up in a body cast for 3 months.

    Parent
    body cast? (none / 0) (#60)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:40:33 PM EST
    Holy crap-what'd you try to pull?  Hahha! Just injecting some humor.

    I think this healthcare thing just shows on of Obama's weaknesses, which is that he has one message for one state and one for another.  You can't do that in this day and age because of the internet, of course.  Though, when people find inconsistencies in his speeches, there is always some excuse.  Which we already all know, so I won't go into it.

    What I wonder is this: how will all of those Obamacans feel when they find out he wants to legalize pot?

    Parent

    Re legalization of mj: I (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:43:45 PM EST
    think he recently changed his mind on that.

    Today I'm thinking he opposes mandates re health insurance because many of his supporters already have health insurance through their employers, and his younger supporters aren't worried about possibly becoming uninsurable or needing portability.  

    Parent

    Disagree (none / 0) (#73)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:05:25 PM EST
    All of the comments from Obama supporters I've seen is that they don't want to spend the money for insurance.

    Parent
    can either of you (none / 0) (#78)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:12:33 PM EST
    explain to me - if I have insurance through my job then if Obama's plan comes through, does my job continue to do it or is it now in the individual's responsibility?

    In HRCs?

    Parent

    IIRC Both Plans Give You Options (none / 0) (#86)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:00:16 PM EST
    If you have insurance now and like it you keep it. That would include your employer based insurance.

    Obama's plan is more employer driven requiring all but the smallest companies to provide some form of health insurance. IMO problems with that approach are that companies already learned how to game the system years ago by using part time help etc. Also, there is a problem with portability.

    Clinton's plan is less employer driven and gives more options on how to get insurance. The premiums are based on a % of earnings. IIRC Clinton's plan allows an option that is outside the insurance framework that is thought to be a beginning to move to single payer insurance. The nose of the camel under the tent approach.

    It has been a while since I read comparisons between the plans, so some of the details are a little vague now. I remember I liked Edwards' plan the best, Clinton's was close to Edwards' and because Obama's plan was not Universal coverage, I liked his the least and found it problematic.  
     

    Parent

    thank you very much (none / 0) (#92)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:15:28 PM EST
    for your comments. I appreciate it.

    Parent
    You would remain (none / 0) (#88)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:09:49 PM EST
    covered under your employers insurance under both plans....at least with my limited understanding of the plans. I believe the big change would be if you left your current employer the insurance would go with you. I'm not sure how the plans address the payment for the insurance once you leave the company.

    Parent
    okay = (none / 0) (#94)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:21:54 PM EST
    gotcha.

    my company is swell - no concerns there - I am looking for loopholes...why someone would be against it.  

    I find Obama's reasoning that some people dont want to buy insurance very funny - hey people dont want to buy car insurance.  Tough.  It is for the good of everyone that it is mandatory.
    Same with health insurance - If somebody doesnt have insurance and gets sick who pays?

    Parent

    My state doesn't require auto insurance (none / 0) (#97)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:33:38 PM EST
    and your parallel with that really resonates with me.  Have been hit several times, over the years, by uninsured drivers.  Of course, it can just drive up our insurance.  So more often, we just pay for it ourselves.  Any health care plan like that, no thanks.

    Btw, family member who is an economist and expert on health care policy ranked the three plans as Clinton's best, Edwards next, Obama's last.

    That said, said family member who says health care is the number-one issue also plans to vote for Obama on Tuesday!  And cannot explain it and is quite uncomfortable with the cognitive dissonance.

    I can explain it, knowing him well . . . but I will spare him and you the explanation.  (Not misogyny, btw.  But I see some personality types drawn to one candidate, some to another. . . .)

    Parent

    wow (none / 0) (#104)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:20:52 PM EST
    I thought all states required it - NY and NJ do -I live and work in both.

    sheesh on your relative - I dont mind someone having an opposite opinion - I just like to hear their "why".

    Parent

    You are so right (none / 0) (#77)
    by magisterludi on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:09:10 PM EST
    while I see BHO's point in the potential hardship of a mandate, it still dilutes the FACT that in a world of globalization, socialized medicine, as routinely practiced in many "westernized" European countries, is going to be fundamental to the health and welfare of the vast majority of Americans.
    If globalization is the future, so is socialized healthcare.  

    Parent
    The Financial Hardship Part Might Be Overstated (none / 0) (#96)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:32:12 PM EST
    Hillary's plan includes a refundable tax credit to help offset premiums. Also,her plan limits total expenditures to a percentage of income. Not a dollar amount, a percentage. If you make very little, your total expenditure, by law, can't be very much. Also, her plan wants to expand the S-Chip and Medicaid programs to cover more people.

    So if it provides real help to offset costs to those who need it, it might not a financial hardship to poorer people. Where it might be a financial hardship is on people who would rather have fancy gadgets, cars etc. rather than have insurance. There are people who make enough money to pay for insurance but would rather spend their money on luxury items. Why should everyone else pay more and be penalized for their decision?

    Of course, a lot of plans look good on paper and the proof is pudding. Details, details, details. And what is purposed may not be what can actually be accomplished up in D.C. My way of negotiating is to go in with more than you are willing to accept and not the bare bones of what is acceptable.      

    Parent

    I don't know (none / 0) (#15)
    by athyrio on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:36:43 AM EST
    how much more he could do either, but I just thought a statement from him about this would go along way with the American people to understand how this is total manipulation against universal health care which so many Americans need so badly (including yours truly)

    Parent
    Edwards busted his tush (none / 0) (#46)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:22:21 PM EST
    and was not rewarded with votes.  I think he did his part and you may not really want to diss him if he chills for a little while.

    But I do know what you mean and why you want it.

    Parent

    Same here -- if Edwards cares about his plan (none / 0) (#16)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:37:02 AM EST
    he won't endorse Obama, after his propaganda.

    We will see if Edwards is deserving of AG -- or Secy of Health and Human Services. . . .

    Parent

    Report That Edwards Will Not Endorse Before 2/5 (none / 0) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:38:56 AM EST
    TPM

    Also saw an article that Gore is not going to endorse before 2/5.
    Richardson, will be watching the Super Bowl with Bill Clinton, but no other indication that he will endorse soon either.

    Parent

    Will the TV cameras be watching (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:49:02 AM EST
    Richardson watch the superbowl w/Bill Clinton?

    Parent
    I hope the TV cameras won't (none / 0) (#28)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:51:56 AM EST
    That's all I want to see on TV: two men slouched on a couch, eating pizza, watching football.

    Almost every woman's nightmare.

    Parent

    edwards is a smart man. he won't endorse (none / 0) (#54)
    by hellothere on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:33:16 PM EST
    obama.

    Parent
    Pols and "integrity" (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:35:58 AM EST
    are not words that mix well.

    That is true for ALL pols.

    Bill Clinton ANd barack Obama included.

    Parent

    Looks Like You And Kos Agree On Debate (none / 0) (#22)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:44:29 AM EST
    Hadn't seen that (none / 0) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:54:50 AM EST
    defend (none / 0) (#131)
    by Jgarza on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 08:18:08 PM EST
    obama repudiates the media spin of the comment.  sorry, btd but this whole kerfluffle showed me obama has no integrity.

    So the Clintons, the expert campaigners, can't defend themselves from the press, Obama their opponent has to defend them.  If they are so inept, they are dependent on their opponant to get them out of stuff imagine in a  general, what a disaster!

    Parent

    I would like to make this point again. Why (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by derridog on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:24:12 PM EST
    is comparing Obama to Jesse Jackson such a terrible insult?  Because the MSM demonizes and ridicules Jesse Jackson?  Those of you who profess to NOT be racists are being racist towards Jackson.

    I lived through the Civil Rights movement. My boyfriend registered voters in Mississippi in 1961 while I was in my freshman year of college.  Jesse Jackson was beside Martin Luther King all the way.  I have always respected Jackson. I was a Jackson delegate to the New Mexico state convention when he ran for President in 1988. He was ridiculed then and treated abysmally. His mike was cut off by some local yokels who thought it was a big joke. Through it all he maintained his dignity and he speaks up on important issues today.

    So maybe Bill, who is a friend of Jackson, feels the same way I do. Certainly, Jackson doesnt' see anything wrong with Bill's remark. Why don't all you "non-racists" explain to him that using his name and comparing him to Obama is considered by you an insult to Obama. Maybe then he'd "get it."

    When you buy the MSM conventional wisdom, once in while try to step back and evaluate where it coming from and why? Who benefits?  Certainly, Clinton did not benefit from being accused continually of being a racist.  In what way did that help him?  However, by taking offense at any comment that Bill or Hillary made relating to race, Obama benefitted big time.   Please don't tell me that Obama could not have doing that because he is such a superstar and so innocent of all things.   I know that many of you think he is the Second Coming, but the mud was flowing from his side just as much if not more as from Hillary's.  It completely turned me off and I would have a hard time voting for him now. I hope I don't have to make that choice.

    Parent

    Ok. But explain to me why (5.00 / 0) (#130)
    by derridog on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 08:06:58 PM EST
    the Clintons, who have always been very popular within the black community, would go into South Carolina, where she had a strong backing there and deliberately alienate her base with coded signals delivered towards racist whites?

    And, if the Clinton's are so incredibly masterful at such efforts, as everyone seems to believe, if they WERE doing such a thing, why didn't it benefit them then?

    Who DID it benefit?  I think you might notice that it was Obama, who by taking offense at what could have been read as innocent comments, reaped the benefit by pumping up the black community until it was filled with anger.  

    Not that the MSM didn't bear tremendous responsibility for this as well, and it was Obama's "supporters" who were the most vocal, but he certainly never set them straight.  He won because he was willing to twist their words in order to make himself look like a victim and take the black vote away from her by doing so.  This is not a very appealing attribute, in my book. In fact, it comes straight from the Swiftboating playbook.  Take someone's strengths and attack them there.  Take one comment or occurrence and misinterpret it or play  it over and over and attack and ridicule it endlessly (anyone remember the Dean Scream?).  

    No one can convince me that the Clintons are racist.   If so, why did it only show up now and never in the 8 years he was president or since then? Also, no one can convince me that they are that stupid to blow Hillary's support with blacks and then to keep making supposedly purposeful racist statements, after it was clear it was backfiring.

    Simple logic will tell you that they had nothing to gain from doing this, but Obama had everything to gain from pretending they were.

    Parent

    Back down from the "racist" frame. (none / 0) (#135)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 09:18:43 PM EST
    I will grant you that a lot of the talk about these events is overheated. When racism is charged against the Clintons it seems, and is, a ridiculous overreach. So they then are defended, and meantime the underlying issue gets overlooked.

    They were not sending code to racist whites. They were framing the Obama candidacy as being one akin to MLK or Jackson's efforts - namely a crusade for black empowerment, rather than a serious effort to achieve the presidency.

    And it most certainly worked for them. They were able to defuse the inevitable Obama victory by painting it as just blacks voting for blacks.

    I think you are being grossly unfair and show complete lack of respect for the sincere feelings of anger that a lot of people had. You try to fob it off as cynical swiftboating or something. Well no. The anger was deep and sincere.

    Let me try to help you understand this.

    There has never been a candidacy like Obama's, where a candidate, who happens to be part of a traditionally excluded group, has run his campaign without the slightest hint of trying to use that identity to his advantage. Everything about his candidacy has been about transcending traditional divides. It is a an attempt to garner a foothold in that promised land, where race or gender or other categorizations will truly not be an issue, that a candidate can really be judged on his/her merits. And the way that Obama wants to gain that foothold is to just do it - just be that kind of a candidate.

    This is transformational. For a long time identity politics has been the norm. I am not criticizing it - it served a purpose for a time. But that is not how Obama sees himself - and I am sure that being biracial as he is has a lot to do with that - and that is not how he has campaigned.

    The Clintons are of the era of identity politics. For example, Obama has NEVER stood up and claimed that he wanted to be the first black president. He just wants to be president. But Hillary is constantly making such an appeal - lets be proud of electing the first woman, lets break through that glass ceiling. I think the Clintons instinctivly realized that an identity politics approach could serve them well in this campaign. If Obama could be viewed as the black candidate, rather than the candidate who, oh by the way, happens to be black - then they would have an advantage.

    That is why they complimented him as being like MLK, but also putting him in that box at the same time. That is why Bill explicitly framed SC as an election where blacks would vote for blacks.

    So no, the Clintons were not being racist, in any reasonable sense of the word. But they were trying to use race to marginalize their opponent. And it came instinctivly to them not because they harbor racial animosity, but because they are creatures of that era.

    That is why there is such an age gap in the support between the two. Obama is appealing to young people who have grown up in a world where these type of categories seem like something rather unpleasant that older generations are imposing on a reality that really doesnt need or want them. Whereas older folks grew up in a world where these categories were very real, and by ignoring them you lose the ability to fight them.

    THere is another aspect of this which needs to be mentioned to fully understand the rage. Obama is the first national black figure who truly has the ability to be evaluated for the presidency in a manner totally irrespective of his race (although one could argue that Colin Powell could have been the first). Not seen by the general populace as the black guy. Not seen as someone who could represent giving the black people a chance. But evaluated just like any other candidate, on the merits. And then here comes the Clintons and they try to put him back in the black box.

    If someone like Obama cannot compete as just another candidate, then maybe no black ever can. Maybe no black will ever be allowed to escape from the box. In that sense, the Clintons can be seen as paving a really nice and heavy ceiling on top of all black politicians. And to see that happening, in the Democratic party - the one vehible for black political empowerment - and done by the Clintons, friends, is just totally infuriating. A total betrayal.

    You may not agree with this interpretation of what all these events mean, but I plead with you to recognize that there are a lot of people who sincerely feel this way.

    Parent

    So lots of people feel (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 10:59:10 PM EST
    I think you are being grossly unfair and show complete lack of respect for the sincere feelings of anger that a lot of people had. You try to fob it off as cynical swiftboating or something. Well no. The anger was deep and sincere.
    I agree the feelings of anger were sincere. But I believe that the Obama campaign with the help of the MSM, fueled those feelings and created a cynical advantage with the followers and in the African American community. Politically, they were brilliant, but ethically, I found it deplorable. What amazed me is how the virus spread. I will find some links were Senator Obama, speaking to African American audiences keeps talking about them and us. I do not find that to be transcending. I saw an entire video this week but need to find it. I agree that he should be evaluated as any other candidate, but at the same time he cannot play the double agent and when it is to his advantage, use the race issue. Because he allegedly is this kind of candidate, I for one will not allow a double standard.

    Parent
    Video from debate (none / 0) (#140)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:46:49 PM EST
    Obama admitted that his campaign was using the race issue: Tim Russert question

    Parent
    This is just such garbage. (none / 0) (#141)
    by Tano on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 12:14:19 AM EST
    Hillary raises race in clever and subtle ways. Her surrogates are not so clever.

    The Obama campaign objects. After a while they actually make a list of all the times the Clinton campaign has done this.

    And people can seriously, with a straight face, claim that this is Obama playing the race card?
    How can you be so transparantly absurd? Have you lost all internal editors?

    Here - if this helps, let me make up a hypothetical counter example.

    Obama campaign says Hillary is reminiscent of Betty Friedan, but that it took a Reagan to actually put a woman on the Supreme Court. Surrogates wonder out loud just what Hillary was up to when she was off at that "woman's" college. Other surrogates wonder out loud how high she would have risen if she hadn't snagged a politically smart husband.

    Angry Clinton supporters complain to the media about how Obama people are trying to play a sexist gender card. The campaign actually compiles a list of these things.

    Now, would it be fair to turn around and accuse Hillary of playing the gender card here?

    Parent

    Obama Campaign (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 01:04:47 AM EST
    Did Russert have a four page memo that pointed out race issues that the campaign wanted to focus on? Did Obama admit it? Did the press make a big deal of it NO. My point is that people got hurt, yes-- I contend that, the political campaign made an effort to point out and exaggerate the points. Obama has a very good, I think shrewd campaign manager. Axelrod. He is playing the Obama story and the issues of race like a violin. If you attribute motive to Clinton, can you at least attribute motive to the Obama campaign. Motive in not on one side alone. At this point the race card was to the advantage of Obama, he is taking the southern states. Why would the Clinton campaign do this on purpose in the early part of the campaign to lose the south? Just does not make sense. They wanted a swift and early win. I don't buy the idea that the Obama campaign was victimized, they magnified the victimhood for political advantage. I have no problem if people are honest about it.

    Parent
    NO (none / 0) (#144)
    by Tano on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 01:34:20 AM EST
    he had a list of instances of the Clinton campaign raising race or race-tinged issues.

    Yes -  Obama admitted that they had compiled such a list, so what?

    Did the press make a big deal of it? You mean, like asking Obama about it on a nationally televised debate?

    You keep returning to your desparate attempts to somehow cram these events into an Obama playing the race card frame, it is all bs.
    Oh, not it is Axelrod, eh?

    No it is Clinton. Yes, Axelrod complained when the Clintons did it. That is not playing the race card like a violin - it is trying to discredit the playing of the race card so that Obama will not be trapped in the "black candidate" box.

    And it has repeatedly been pointed out in this thread that the Clintons knew they would lose SC, so doing this would not hurt them much further there, but would benefit them greatly down the road as everyone in the rest of the country viewed Obama as a special interest candidate.

    I would strongly advise you to not get so committed to this absolutist defense of the Clintons and their tactics. If you get your wish and we have to deal with her for the next 4 or 8 years, you are going to end up spinning yourself all the way down through the earth and come out in China somewhere.

    Parent

    Lets agree on one thing (5.00 / 0) (#145)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 10:18:44 AM EST
    You find motive one one side. I find motive in both. It's politics. I will not buy the construct of the "mean Clintons" and innocent "Obama" if you do, that is fine. I do not need binaries to choose sides. I recognize that's it politics. When this is over, you will recognize the Axelrod techniques.

    Parent
    I agree completely with Stella. There was no (5.00 / 0) (#146)
    by derridog on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 03:41:05 PM EST
    advantage to the Clintons in this brouhaha.  All advantage went to Obama. Plus Obama admits that it was something they were trying to do. They succeeded.  

    Politically, it was very smart of them.  Ethically, it was pretty sleazy.  If you are accusing the Clintons of sleaziness, please don't excuse your own candidate when he engages in sleazy behavior.  Obama does not walk on water.  He is trying to win and he will evidently do what he needs to do.  Some would argue there's nothing wrong with that. But to pretend he  didn't do something that he clearly did and admits to  makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion with you.

    Also, when you speak of people's anger, don't forget that there are two sides in this discussion. You are not the only ones who can feel anger.  I felt anger towards Obama for twisting Hillary's words to his own advantage to the point where he almost split the party over race.

    Parent

    You cannot simply transfer responsibility (none / 0) (#142)
    by Tano on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 12:22:46 AM EST
    for what the Clintons were doing by noting that the Obama people complained about it, and the media reported on it. That does not constitute playing the race card by the Obama campaign. And there is nothing wrong with the media reporting on the Clinton tactics - that is there job.

    If you dont want Obama to complain about this, and you dont want the media to report on it, then the Clintons should not have done it.

    You are the one who is erecting a double standard. And a truly bizaree one at that. Bill can frame the whole campaign in racial terms, and that is not, in your mind, playing the race card. Obama objects to these things, and that IS playing the race card.

    I am sorry, but I can almost not believe that anyone could sincerly believe this.

    Parent

    Thank you.....!! (none / 0) (#98)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:34:45 PM EST
    For the life of me I will not get this collective twist. And I think after it's all over we will be vindicated. I completely agree with you on Jessie.

    Parent
    O.K. I Think I Get It (none / 0) (#112)
    by MO Blue on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:06:33 PM EST
    Jesse Jackson has been ridiculed by the MSM and by too many white people and portrayed as someone less than an important political figure. It is a lack of respect. Since so many white people actually are disrespectful of Rev. Jackson, it is reasonable for the AA community to think that you are insulting Obama by the comparison.

    I thank you for making the issue clearer. On one hand, I kind of got it and yet I was struggling with the issue somewhat. I guess my biggest obstacle was that I like Rev. Jackson. He had accomplishments that I respected and you always knew where he was coming from. I'd rather vote for him than Senator Obama.

    If I got this all wrong, please tell me. I may be ignorant, but I am capable of learning.  

     

    Parent

    It is the right thing to do (none / 0) (#9)
    by magster on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:25:00 AM EST
    The timing is interesting, though, because the South Carolina stuff seems like ancient history. I wonder if Obama's momentum continues to gain speed, and the apology is designed to stop the bleeding.

    Nonetheless, an apology goes a long way to goodwill.

    Parent

    I think the debate stopped Obama's mo (none / 0) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:35:05 AM EST
    But I could be wrong.

    Parent
    Really? Not what I'm reading, so I needed (none / 0) (#18)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:38:30 AM EST
    to read that.  Care to explain more than you did on previous threads?  More perceptive thoughts?

    Parent
    Not sure I follow you (none / 0) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:22:56 PM EST
    You wrote that Clinton won the debate and why (none / 0) (#57)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:39:37 PM EST
    which was fascinating reading; thanks.

    I don't think that you wrote that it translated into stopping the Obama momentum, though.  Seemed to say that the debate simply kept both where they were.

    And since then, it seems to be all Obama, all the time in the media, with more endorsements.  And the polls are showing some movement -- although not as much as Obama supporters claim.  But still. . . .

    You think that there is not momentum?  Why?  (If I missed your statement on this earlier, sorry, and just sorta point me to which thread to read again.)


    Parent

    No need to reply -- saw your new thread (none / 0) (#69)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:51:05 PM EST
    and will go and read it now.  Thanks, again -- with so little critical thinking out and about the media, the blogs, etc., I really appreciate this site.

    Parent
    Only data point I have.. (none / 0) (#25)
    by TheRealFrank on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:49:58 AM EST
    Is the Rasmussen tracking poll, where Clinton, for the first time in a while, increased the gap with 2 points.

    But, Rasmussen has weird samples sometimes, so I'm taking that with a grain of salt.


    Parent

    Survey USA state polling (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:54:05 AM EST
    seems to confirm it.

    We'll find out Tuesday.

    Super Bowl tomorrow.


    Parent

    Wouldn't a truly dedicated blogger (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:03:11 PM EST
    keep on blogging despite the super bowl?  

    Parent
    Certainly (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:22:22 PM EST
    But not during a Gator game ever . . .

    Parent
    For me, no blogging during halftime (none / 0) (#62)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:41:06 PM EST
    or during ads.

    But go, you Gators fans!

    Parent

    I'm done with it all. At a friend's house (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:46:13 PM EST
    during Janet Jackson unclothing.  But, we missed it as we used Tivo to return to an ad so we could discuss with impunity on Monday morning.

    Parent
    Another data point.. (none / 0) (#59)
    by TheRealFrank on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:40:00 PM EST
    Clinton jumped 4 points in the Gallup tracking, while Obama remained constant.

    I think this points to the debate being a win for Clinton.


    Parent

    Maybe so on loss of mo' (none / 0) (#31)
    by magster on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:54:59 AM EST
    2/2 Rasmussen tracking poll has Clinton gaining 2 pts since yesterday, for a 8% lead overall.  

    And, Happy Groundhog Day to all!  (More winter)

    Parent

    i watched groundhog day (none / 0) (#82)
    by hellothere on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:35:51 PM EST
    again last night. it is one of my favorite movies.

    Parent
    So why in LA instead of South Carolina? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ben Masel on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:24:26 PM EST
    Bill might consider an apology for Jan. 24, 1992 while he's on a roll.

    Parent
    the media bias (none / 0) (#64)
    by tek on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:44:03 PM EST
    Yes, I keep wondering if she does win, how will the D. C. Dems come to terms with their own bad behavior to her. It'll be interesting.

    The truest thing Bill Clinton has said so far was in a rally in S. C. where he criticized the media and said they are stealing the election away from the American people. Unfortunately, the establishment Dems are also attempting to do this. They will anoint Barack and the people have to "trust" that he's the best choice. No Democracy going on here.

    Parent

    Let me be clear (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:17:53 AM EST
    Make another outrageous accusation of racism and I will delete your comment and ask Jeralyn to ban you.

    I deleted the comment (none / 0) (#138)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 10:27:27 PM EST
    it was over the top.

    Parent
    Lemonade (5.00 / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:58:45 AM EST
    His impulsiveness worked out well for him this time. He is quite the  master pol.  

    BTW- IMO he was not being racist with the JJ remark just really mean towards Obama. Worth an apology.

    Not mean.. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by TheRealFrank on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:17:09 PM EST
    Just trying to take the shine off of the big win by Obama. Standard politics. In the same vein as "but we got more delegates!". Etc. It's the first thing a campaign does if the another campaign wins a state: try to devaluate it.


    Parent
    hey Frank (none / 0) (#51)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:26:11 PM EST
    I said almost the exact thing 3 minutes after you! Ha, I didnt even see your post.

    Cool.

    Parent

    does he need to apologize? (5.00 / 0) (#61)
    by tek on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:40:48 PM EST
    I just hate to see this because he did not even say the things Obama's campaign is claiming and this is  the most egregious examples of distortion I've ever seen from a Democratic candidate.
    Yesterday, I started to see articles from Obama bloggers saying Wait a minute, look at the transcript, look at the video, Clinton didn't bring up Jesse Jackson, the reporter did.

    Still, it's now an urban legend all over the Web that Bill Clinton brought up Jesse Jackson's wins to diminish Obama. Democrats accept this as gospel truth, totally ignoring the facts. So sad. The same is true of the whole LBJ/JFK thing. No racism and she did credit JFK. Democrats acting just like Grover Norquist and William Kristol. I have no tolerance for it.

    Where did you read that the reporter (none / 0) (#71)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:59:24 PM EST
    brought up JJ first? I watched the video and didn't see that.

    Parent
    Urban Legend? (none / 0) (#75)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:06:55 PM EST
    Really?
    Here is the transcript.

    Do you have a different transcript? Bill Clinton brought up Jackson first according to the ABC/Trapper transcript.

    Parent

    what you have is no understanding of it. (none / 0) (#89)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:11:03 PM EST
    The messages from the Clintons were consistent.

    Obama is the black candidate, the special interest candidate fighting for a good and honorable cause (ala MLK or Jackson), but not to be confused with a serious candidate for president.

    If you cant understand that, if you really think that the Clintons are not going to do whatever they can to win an election (and then offer the requistie apologies afterward) then you really are out of your depth when it comes to politics.

    This is a struggle for all the marbles. If Hillary loses, she will never get back to the WH. If she loses, the book on Bill's political legacy will be closed as far as any new inputs, and that history will be written by a new generation of people. They will do anything to prevent this.

    Parent

    your first paragraph (none / 0) (#91)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:13:03 PM EST
    is bull and has already been discredited.  

    Parent
    distortions (none / 0) (#126)
    by lilburro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 07:09:52 PM EST
    I think the memo below contains some obvious distortions of what Bill Clinton has said, particularly the fairy tale comment, which was specifically about the perception of Obama's position on Iraq.  

    Link

    And I don't know what's racist about choosing Hillary Clinton over Nelson Mandela.  Bill certainly was not saying he'd do so based on race.  And as far as the weird scenario Bill laid out goes, I'm surprised he didn't choose James Bond or Captain America.  

    Parent

    Yes, Bill is a big man (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by CognitiveDissonance on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:23:08 PM EST
    But when is the press going to apologize?

    for his mistake (none / 0) (#132)
    by Jgarza on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 08:20:25 PM EST
    that's a new one

    Parent
    FALSEHOODS (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:08:18 PM EST
    every last one of them.

    Deleted.

    Please do not post here anymore today aahpat.

    Because I respect Jeralyn (none / 0) (#93)
    by aahpat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:21:24 PM EST
    I will not write, on my blog, about Big Tent Democrat's thuggish partisan treatment and censorship of me here at TalkLeft.  

    I will no longer participate here because I do not subject myself to the anti democracy abuse that partisan Democrats like Big Tent Democrat feel they have a right to impose on Americans. Big Tent Democrat makes a mockery of everything that Jeralyn has represented this blog to be.

    Big Tent Democrat typical partisan thug Democrat who can't handle free and open debate.

    Parent

    Unfair Crit (none / 0) (#99)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:35:35 PM EST
    This is not about you but respecting TL's rules. Check them out. No calling anyone racist.

    Parent
    Your problem is with Jeralyn (none / 0) (#123)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 06:44:17 PM EST
    Not with me. I am enforcing the site rules.

    IF it was up to me, I would have eviscerated you and left you in pieces rhetorically.

    But civility is a watchword here.

    Your rhetoric is not permitted at this site.

    Parent

    I was kinda hoping (none / 0) (#5)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:18:51 AM EST
    that there would be no news to change until Tuesday and that the race is now all about the ground game.  

    I don't see that this can hurt, but I hope he doesn't say anything b/c the media will certainly take anything he says and use it against him.  I also think this may let the BO camp off the hook, though they clearly injected race in the campaign (as if it wasn't obvious already).

    Off topic: I'm curious how much the 'Harry & Louise' flyer may/will effect John Edward's decision and his supporters to back BO.

    harry and louise (none / 0) (#65)
    by tek on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:46:10 PM EST
    I think, except for brainwashed, bedazzled Obama groupies, the Harry and Louise thing will have a very detrimental effect on Obama. I read lots of far lefties bashing him for this yesterday.

    Raw Story even had a damning article about it and they adore Obama.

    Parent

    Ooops (none / 0) (#8)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:24:27 AM EST
    "no news to change anything" until Tuesday"...

    I should add that it was obvious to me that race and gender would becomes issues in the campaign as it's pretty clear that there's an African American and a woman running.

    I guess it's the double-sided sword thing that makes race/gender touchy subjects--yet the pride I think we all felt as Democrats Thursday seems to indicate that it's a net plus for both of them (at least within our Party).

    I'm completely cynical about anything Bill (none / 0) (#10)
    by byteb on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:28:33 AM EST
    Clinton does or says. It's pretty much all calculated to further Bill Clinton. I remember when he assured his cabinet of his innocence during the Monica Mess. Madeline Albright, Donna Shala and other cabinet members believed him and publicly stood up for him. It was pathetic.
    Bill can lie, spin and conjure up cheap emotions at the drop of a hat. There's nothing 'big' about what he's doing. It's all for show and all for votes. He has many gifts: brilliance and savy political skills are only two of many, but among those gifts is the ability to be an actor. Maybe that's why Hollywood loved him so much.

    Well, if he's that transparent (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:39:44 AM EST
    then he isn't a very good actor.

    No Oscar for the big dog.

    Parent

    Over time, people tend to catch on. (none / 0) (#27)
    by byteb on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:50:18 AM EST
    What's that famous phrase Dubya mangled? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.I think it applies to Bill.

    Parent
    Big Tent is right (none / 0) (#42)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:17:37 PM EST
    your comments are smallminded...while at the same time indulging in the kind of self-praise you think will make us admire your judgement.

    I just think you are crabby.  Isnt you team in the superbowl?

    Parent

    I wrote what I felt independent of whether (none / 0) (#74)
    by byteb on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:06:02 PM EST
    it would curry favor or not. Period. I accept and respect other ppl's opinions concerning what I write. However, your remark about writing to incur admiration seems perhaps more indicative of your motivations for writing and/or chiming in more than anything else.
    I think your comment is out of line.

    Parent
    when you say (none / 0) (#79)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:19:27 PM EST
    other people will catch up to your opinion you imply they will catch up with you and your advanced thinking.  Shame on you for not being big enough to own that and to try to make it about me.

    Parent
    Good Lord. I was responding to someone's comment. (none / 0) (#102)
    by byteb on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:56:56 PM EST
    and I wrote a pretty generic off the cuff, somewhat flippant remark. There was no hidden motive nor any snide implication in what I was thinking nor in what I wrote. Let me repeat, I wasn't implying anything about anyone nor about me.  
    I think you're taking what I write way too personally and assigning all sorts of motives that honestly aren't there.
    As for making it about you, well, your first response to me was very personal. It wasn't enough to state your agreement to BTD (which is fine although I didn't agree nor see a need to frame it in quite so personal a fashion), but then you proceeded to divine me as self-indulgent; fashioning responses to seek admiration; asking me if I'm 'crabby' before ending by making a nonsensical comment about the Superbowl. Jeebus.
    I really do think you're overreacting to slights that aren't there. I try to be pretty direct in what I write. If I wanted to say something I wouldn't imply it, I would say it as in my Bill Clinton opinion.
    I think it's best we end this conversation for today. I won't reply anymore. In the best traditions of football, I'm calling for a 'time-out'.

    Parent
    I give up (none / 0) (#106)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:24:19 PM EST
    no more from me to you.  Have fun.

    Parent
    Umm (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:34:21 AM EST
    you seem a small person in that comment.

    Parent
    I value and admire loyalty in people (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by byteb on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:56:01 AM EST
    and I remember Madeline Albright standing making her statement of belief in what he told her. I can't imagine doing that to someone and allowing them to attest to your truthfulness in public knowing it was all a lie. I think it was at that moment that I became a Recovered Billoholic.

    My assessment of Bill may sound harsh but when he speaks, he knows exactly what he's doing or not doing.

    Parent

    nonsequitor (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:01:59 PM EST
    Your initial comment remains incredibly small.

    Parent
    Confusion? (none / 0) (#17)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:37:45 AM EST
    The article from the WashPost is a bit confusing b/c it says he will offer a 'mea culpa' but then later says he won't actually speak?  So his presence is the apology?  

    I was trying to say in my first/original post that I hope he literally doesn't say a word (publicly) as it will be distorted by the MSN.  

    So what's really going to happen Sunday morning?  Anyone else decipher the article better than me?

    Perhaps (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:50:05 AM EST
    Bill Clinton is genuinely concerned that he has alienated some long-time friends in the African American community?  I mean, I know that some folks think Clinton hates women and children and killed somebody's cat, or whatever, but I think that he is understandably upset that he has been swiftboated by the media--and I would definitely call it swiftboating, because it's taking something he is strong on, and has fought for all of his life, and turned it against him.  

    I imagine the letters were carefully examined to see what, if anything, the media could spin out of his words, and I further imagine he is not speaking because everything he says lately is being distorted.

    As to the debate question of whether or not Hillary can control him, I think the last few weeks pretty much proves it.  Not that I would call it "control" but he knows that this is about her, and he has taken a back seat, just like every potential first lady (or man) has.

    Parent

    If Watson has anything to say about it, (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:47:35 AM EST
    Bill Clinton will not be speaking at the churchs.  He'll be introduced by a local dignitary respected in that church.  He's "working on" a letter.  

    Not sure its a good idea to revive the Bill Clinton is played the race card meme so close to CA primary.

    Parent

    I think it is brilliant (none / 0) (#39)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:13:27 PM EST
    to show his very real connection.  Sincerity is always welcome.  Oh, and he was invited.

    Parent
    Bill (none / 0) (#67)
    by tek on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:48:29 PM EST
    I think if he just gives an apology, it can't be bad. It shows that even though he has been misjudged, he's willing to swallow his pride for Hillary's campaign. Probably be seen very positively among all the people still deciding.

    Parent
    Can't remember where I read it (none / 0) (#21)
    by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 11:44:00 AM EST
    but when asked, Jesse Jackson was not upset about Bill's statement and said it wasn't racist in any way...

    jesse (none / 0) (#68)
    by tek on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:49:14 PM EST
    Yes, he gave a statement to the press and said he saw nothing wrong with Bill's remarks and there was no racism in them.

    Parent
    Of course, that this is taking place at a (none / 0) (#37)
    by Geekesque on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:07:05 PM EST
    GOTV rally for Hillary in the African-American community is purely a coincidence.

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:21:02 PM EST
    the GOTV rally could have taken place without the apology I hope you would admit.

    Apparently Bill is the one capable of bigness here. Obama supporters are not exhibiting it in this thread.

    Just Politics I guess.

    Parent

    I would be impressed if he were doing this in (none / 0) (#55)
    by Geekesque on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:33:43 PM EST
    South Carolina.

    I've never believed in the "apologies make everything okay" school of thought.  Hence my failure to support John Edwards.

    Parent

    right i'm supposed (none / 0) (#134)
    by Jgarza on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 08:35:19 PM EST
    to feel all warm and fuzy because he is apologizing after he realized it didn't work.

    Bill isn't some 18 year old intern getting too excited.  He is an ex=president.  

    Apparently Bill is the one capable of bigness here. Obama supporters are not exhibiting it in this thread.

    Never miss an opportunity to insult people supporting Obama. Speaking of which, parity on the insult censorship would be nice.  funny thing posting here if you even so much as suggest, anything the Clinton's have done is racist, you get a lecture, possibly a delete.  If you call Obama sexist, a punk(which as i pointed out is an anti-gay slur), a arrogant(btw a synonym for uppity), you get rated 5.  

    Parent

    It is the perfect move (none / 0) (#38)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:12:18 PM EST
    He didn't do anything wrong, but if people's feelings were hurt he is right to say he is sorry.  It shows respect. I would expect it to be one heckava letter.

    And I think he will, as always, greatly enjoy the services...he is loved becasue he loves.  That simple.

    if they heard it third hand (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 08:05:28 PM EST
    from people out to twist his words for their own foul reasons.  Maybe you've heard of that sort of thing? wink.

    Parent
    He drink lots of coffee so he (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:36:45 PM EST
    isn't caught on camera snoozing.

    Parent
    You'd be snoozing too, if you worked as hard (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by derridog on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:46:57 PM EST
    as those people running for President. What grueling ordeal!

    Parent
    I drink a lot of coffee (none / 0) (#115)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:32:51 PM EST
    and love to snooze.  

    It a co dum dum drum.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#40)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:15:14 PM EST
    that the comparison of Obama to JJ after SC was more 'mean' of Bill than racist.  He went to SC thinking he'd help Hillary as he did in NV and it didn't work, and he's not used to loosing.

    However, for some perspective, think about how great it would be to have him go back into "attack dog" mode against the Republicans while letting HRC and her running mate stay above the fray.

    not so much mean (none / 0) (#43)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:20:13 PM EST
    as dimissive.  And I think it is appropriate in a campaign to recognize your opponent's successes, as HRC had done, but at the same time refuse to give them weight.  It is just campaigning.

    Parent
    mean bill clinton (none / 0) (#70)
    by tek on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:52:08 PM EST
    Would you please get the facts straight? HE NEVER SAID ANY OF THIS CRAP. A reporter made the statement about Jesse Jackson's wins. Clinton ONLY said that Jesse and Obama had run good, clean campaigns in SC. Out of that, the Obama camp created a racist card and CLAIMED that Clinton brought up Jesse Jackson. He did not. But it doesn't do any good to point out facts to Obama and his people. That is what is hugely disturbing about him.

    Parent
    this is NOT true (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by along on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:07:54 PM EST
    stop spreading this false story. none of the reporters there that day with Bill Clinton mentioned Jesse Jackson at all. This has been entirely debunked  via the full transcript of the exchange, which is posted at ABC's Political Punch blog.

    Here is the intro for that piece:


    False Pushback from Clinton Allies

    January 28, 2008 1:19 PM

    Some supporters of Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, are inaccurately saying that her husband's comparison of Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, to Rev. Jesse Jackson came only because a reporter had asked the former president whether a black candidate can win South Carolina, thus raising the subject.

    The larger charge is that reporters were falsely painting the president as race-baiting.

    It's not true. Clinton brought up Jackson with no mention of Jackson by reporters, and with no mention of the subject of whether an African-American can win by reporters.

    Here's the whole transcript:



    Parent
    I dont think it matters (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:51:24 PM EST
    either way, frankly.  it wasnt racist.  it was dismissive of an opponents victory. politics.

    Parent
    Motive (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:58:38 PM EST
    Howler has a great one about the motive we attribute to what someone says. We tend to attribute negative motive to the one we don't like and no motive to the one we like. I think Daily Howler is right on the spot with this. I don't consider and never considered Jessie Jackson bad, I think Bill does not either and he is friends with him. I think Bill talks to much to the press so they will find lots of stuff to attribute motive. Some things are on purpose. But a good example of this was Rachel Maddow who I like on debate night saying Hillary wanted to use immigration as a wedge. HUH? Why would she want to threaten her base? Maddow lost it there.

    Parent
    Thanks for that comment Stellaaa, (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by derridog on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:38:34 PM EST
    I said the same thing the other day on this site and again a minute ago in a post above this.

    You can only consider it a terrible statement if you despise Jesse Jackson. In my view, that makes YOU both a racist and a person who does not examine where his/her views are coming from. This is being fed to you  via "catapulting the propaganda " by your friendly, neighborhood MSM.

    Jesse Jackson is not a jerk.  He is also a friend of Bill's. I was astonished when I was watching MSNBC when they first started going off about what a "coded" insult that was to Obama.  

    The person above who said that Bill was being swiftboated was right, only those doing the swiftboating this time were Obama's people (with a great leg up from the MSM).

    Parent

    but I like Bill (5.00 / 0) (#105)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:22:09 PM EST
    AND i noted a motive.  But it wasnt racism.

    Parent
    No one thinks Jackson is "bad" (none / 0) (#101)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:51:43 PM EST
    That was not the issue.
    Jackson has always been though, a crusader for civil rights. His candidacy for president was not aimed so much at actually winning the job, but advancing the agenda of black empowerment. A noble cause, no doubt. And the Democrats (and the GOP for that matter) have long had a practice of allowing some special interest candidates share the presidential candidate stage for a while, so as to have a platform for advancing important, but narrow interersts.

    What Clinton was trying to do was to put Obama in this box. Someone to be praised and honored for fighting for a good cause, but not to be taken seriously as a presidential contender. As some put it rather crudely, the "ghettoization" of Obama - making him the "black candidate" rather than the serious candidate that happened to be black.

    That was the motivation behind the MLK-LBJ thing as well. Honor and praise Obama - compare him to MLK, but the underlying message is - I, Hillary, am a serious candidate, like LBJ. He, Obama, belongs in the special interest box.

    Parent

    But..but..but (5.00 / 0) (#103)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:09:25 PM EST
    Clinton threw out that statement. Motivation was attributed to his statement by , MSM , blogs and Clinton haters. In turn the statement stayed in play longer than it should. What was the upshot? It hurt Clinton more than "marginalizing" Obama. So, I don't get the logic how it was bad. How it was so calculated and planned. When I read the whole transcript, he was just chatting Saturday morning after before the results. Frankly, I will not even respond to the LBJ issue, since Bill Moyers in his eloquent way put that to rest. Hillary and Bill were right, you need both. LBJ was a masterful politician. Do not take credit away from him. How that got twisted was a masterful Axelrod move. He knows how to play the race card.

    Parent
    It did not hurt Clinton (none / 0) (#114)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:24:56 PM EST
    You should actually read the statements that came from Bill and from the campaign.

    They understood perfectly well how the game was to play out.

    Bill stated explicitly that blacks will vote for blacks and women will vote for women, and given the demographics of SC, we might not win.

    They had no problem with Obama winning SC, once they could put that frame around it. Of course, Obama won SC - the blacks voted for him. He is the black candidate. The campaign actually said those exact words in a release the day after.

    On the larger national stage, where women make up a majority of voters, and blacks less than a quarter, who wins?

    Bill made it clear that voters are to be EXPECTED to vote on race and gender lines - and thus he was giving implicit permission to voters to view the race in that light.

    re. LBJ
    "Hillary and Bill were right, you need both."

    OF course you need both. You need a civil rights leader (Obama) and a president (hillary). That was the whole point of the frame.

    Parent

    Sorry, I hit a rating number and don't know how to (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by derridog on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:58:20 PM EST
    get rid of it.

    But I'm just wondering how you and everyone else are so certain about other people's motivations?  If someone assumed to know what motivated you and read into everything that you say some ulterior motive, perhaps you might see what I mean.

    Bill and Hillary Clinton are the same generation I am and I see their comments as mostly innocent.  Clinton's LBJ comment was absolutely true.  She was trying to make the point that who you elect to be your president is important. In that context, she pointed out that Martin Luther King needed LBJ to get the Civil Rights Act passed. There is no code to that. It's absolutely true.  If Johnson and other elected officials did not respond to the people's voices, nothing would have happened to race relations.   This was true with Watergate also. The reason why Nixon was confronted, when GW Bush is ten times worse, is that politicians in those days had a sense of responsibility to the constitution and to doing what was the right thing.  

    Clinton was pointing this out. And for this, she was demonized.  

    Let me ask you this.  If the Clintons are so all-powerful in their thinking that they can speculate three or four steps ahead and speak in powerful coded language to their evil followers, why is it that they got in all this trouble for what they said?  Are they psychic masochists?

    This reading into everything people utter on the campaign trail is complete nonsense.   It is very easy to get misinterpreted from some innocent comment, especially when you're campaigning day and night.   Get a grip.

    Parent

    Psychic masochists (none / 0) (#113)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:15:57 PM EST
    Can I use it? This is this game that I think Lakoff started. The whole framing thing. That everything is studied, intended and part of a masterful plan and then everyone is an arm chair framer. Sort of us trying to outdo the evil Dr. Rove. Myth: Bill a masterful politician, he does not say anything he does not mean.

    Parent
    You Can Change (none / 0) (#116)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:59:25 PM EST
    Your own rating.  Click another number and press rate all.

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    Include AEDPA and PLRA (none / 0) (#45)
    by Michael Masinter on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:21:13 PM EST
    Clinton should also apologize for the Anti Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act and for the Prison Litigation Reform Act.

    this CNN piece (none / 0) (#49)
    by along on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:24:22 PM EST
    here reports that the Clinton campaign is not on board with the idea that it is an apology tour:

    A spokesperson for the Clinton campaign in California confirms the former president will be visiting African-American churches this Sunday, but disputes the notion the stops are intended to make amends with the black community before the state's voters head to the polls this Tuesday.

    "He's very popular with Latinos, African-Americans, it's absolutely not a mea culpa tour," says Clinton California spokesperson Luis Vizcaino.



    Well then (none / 0) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:29:26 PM EST
    This becomes a problem then.

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    He'll do what he needs to do. (none / 0) (#72)
    by RalphB on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:03:34 PM EST
    Bill will also be stopping by (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:39:40 PM EST
    Olivera Street in LA Sunday, I gather.

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    Clinton allies (none / 0) (#80)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:21:01 PM EST
    The Clinton's have many allies in the Black Congressional Caucus and the Black older establishment. These people stood up for him and now he has to help them establish their credibility that they did not endorse a "racist". There is an on going battle between the Black establishment and the newer hip hop generation. It's not a small rift, it's really big. It's not about videos or music, it's politics and identity. The MSM does not even cover this chasm. The Clinton's failed to get it as well. Clinton and his allies know the value of seeing people eye to eye and not hiding. He is valuing the culture of making amends. The older people will respect his presence, younger people will think its fake.

    I heard Jesse Jackson.... (none / 0) (#107)
    by vdeputy on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:27:06 PM EST
    when he was very young. Was invited to participate in a Senate policy forum and as we were leaving, we heard this voice coming from another room that was absolutely mesmerizing. We were all drawn to the doorway to listen to a young man speaking. We asked who it was and were told Jesse Jackson.  We had never heard of him but I knew he would be a power somehow.

    Incidentally, I was at the forum as a guest of Senator Ted Kennedy. Many senators but he was the huge star in the room. Media totally focussed on him. I met him for the first time and shook his hand and his eyes were absolutely cold. I still think he is one of our most effective Dem Senators but after that, I always thought he likes the "people" but not necessarily individual persons.

    I had the same experience with (none / 0) (#109)
    by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:48:31 PM EST
    Teddy at a dinner in Seattle when he was working the room from table to table.  It's policy and legacy...not personal.

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    he has to (none / 0) (#111)
    by Judith on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:03:04 PM EST
    protect himself - hold something in reserve, I cant blame him...and I am sure you dont either.

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    Personal politics (none / 0) (#117)
    by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 05:39:59 PM EST
    doesn't come naturally to him as it did to JFK (after awhile) and Bobby.

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    No letter. See Huffington Post. (none / 0) (#128)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 07:52:37 PM EST
    Bill Clinton will attend black churches in LA tomorrow and will speak.  

    Us Black Folk? (none / 0) (#133)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 08:28:19 PM EST
    Are you claiming to represent the African American position? It would follow that if there is a unified black position than Clinton was just stating the obvious in his remark.

    My guess based on what JJ said, is that what you are saying that you are offended personally, and do not represent anyone other than those who are Obama supporters irrespective of the amount of melatonin in their skin.  

    I think you mean melanin (none / 0) (#136)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 09:36:02 PM EST
    Melatonin is the pituitary hormone that regulates circadian rhythms.

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    Yes Melanin (none / 0) (#137)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 09:44:52 PM EST
    Although I am sure that there were also people offended who have various levels of Melatonin, too. Evidentially the pinel gland allows retina to distinguish between light and dark.

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