home

Obama's Response to His Gaffe

Barack Obama's campaign responds to his gaffe about PA voters.

"Senator Obama has said many times in this campaign that Americans are understandably upset with their leaders in Washington for saying anything to win elections while failing to stand up to the special interests and fight for an economic agenda that will bring jobs and opportunity back to struggling communities. And if John McCain wants a debate about who's out of touch with the American people, we can start by talking about the tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans that he once said offended his conscience but now wants to make permanent,”

Looks like news of this gaffe may last the weekend:

His comments have been distributed to allies on Capitol Hill, to members of the Pennsylvania press corps, to talk radio hosts across the country, to Republican state parties and to the congressional campaign committees. The National Republican Congressional Committee is using the statement to whack Chris Carney, an endorser of Obama and vulnerable frosh member of congress from Pennsylvania.

Obama's entire remarks, in context, can be read here.

(This is a continuation of Big Tent's original thread on the gaffe which is about filled up.)

Update: Thread closing, here's a new one for you to continue the discussion.

< Obama's Gaffe | Obama Explains Why Pro-Life Dems Support Him >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Wow (5.00 / 5) (#79)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:20:53 PM EST
    This was just an amazing, world-class gaffe.  I really can't believe he had the poor judgment to say this.

    I really don't think the strategy of engaging in a full-throated defense, John Kerry-style ("I will not let the right-wing focus on a botched joke distract us from the real issues...") is really the right call here.  I guess we'll see.

    I expect the blogosphere will love Obama's defense, not only because they love everything Obama does, but because they believe his statements about small-town Pennsylvania are basically true.

    Right on. (5.00 / 7) (#88)
    by OrangeFur on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:25:33 PM EST
    This wasn't in my copy of our grand plan to win back the votes of people who think Democrats are too elitist and disdainful of middle America.

    Also, if you're going to go around insulting working class folks, you shouldn't first show off how bad you are at bowling. :)

    Parent

    x (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Mary Mary on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:29:22 PM EST
    His statements are NOT TRUE! Bitter people here in small-town PA who can't get good jobs drink beer and ride three-wheelers. Gosh-darned elitist!

    Parent
    And (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:33:43 PM EST
    they cling to guns!  and religion!

    I wonder if anyone will put two and two together and speculate about what sort of bitterness led Obama to cling to his particular church.  Or maybe it's only the little people who do everything out of bitterness.

    Parent

    Look (5.00 / 6) (#114)
    by sas on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:36:57 PM EST
    I know small town Pennsylvanians, being from PA.

    These people were religious, and loved their guns before they lost their jobs.  This amatuerish attempt to explain their way of life and what they hold dear will be the death knell of his campaign there.

    They will not like being told they are xenophobic in response to losing their jobs.

    The man is an idiot when it comes to common sense and the lives of the average person.

    Parent

    Thank you--I don't know small town PA, but I do (none / 0) (#241)
    by jawbone on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:54:43 PM EST
    know small town Wisconsin. And you are quite right.

    Parent
    Jawbone, where in Wisconsin? (none / 0) (#266)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:05:05 PM EST
    I'm in the big city here, but you know it's been called the biggest small town in the country -- and I've lived in small towns in Wisconsin, too, and can only agree.  We all have a lot in common with the folks in Pennsylvania, and I can imagine how this would play here, whether in Mwokee or Lodi or Potosi.  Obama is sunk in the Midwest now, except for Chicago . . . and even then, only the most urban areas of Chicago.

    Parent
    What he said is not a gaffe; (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by felizarte on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:51:43 PM EST
    the gaffe is saying what he felt.

    Parent
    Exacto (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:58:26 PM EST
    I am not surprised.  His followers think the same of most Americans.  They diminish them and put them down.  So, I am not surprised.  

    Parent
    Yeah...his speeches. (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:08:18 PM EST
    the new age feel good advertising pharma language speak...saying nothing, standing for nothing...but making everyone feel good about nothing.  Obama reinvented nihilism.  

    Parent
    Right. (none / 0) (#195)
    by OrangeFur on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:12:54 PM EST
    As Michael Kinsley has said before, a gaffe is what happens when a politician says what he really thinks.

    Parent
    several good ources for (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by dem08 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:25:58 PM EST
    thinking about what this says about Obama are michellemalkin, hot  air, and several of the non-Progressive blogs.

    At least they know an important story when they see one.

    If SNL is new this week, perhaps they will have a sketch about the elitists Obama's contempt and completely stupid comment that people who lost their jobs 25 years ago are frustrated because everyone promises them an improved life which has not come.

    Who would think we would have to go to the conservatives to see how bad and stupid Obama is.

    Sure... (none / 0) (#224)
    by mbuchel on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:26:55 PM EST
    Because we know the Right Wing Noise Machine will have a very fair assessment of any democrat.
    Have you already forgotten what the smear machine did to the Clintons in the 90's?
    So you don't like Obama - I get it.  But let's not look for validation from the RWNM and co-opt their language, deal?


    Parent
    To me (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:33:06 PM EST
    this all brings up the specter of the "Macaca moment".

    And it's a ghost that certainly sends a chill up my leg, but not in the Chris Matthews sense.

    Gosh (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:34:16 PM EST
    If only he had said that.

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:39:41 PM EST
    This is such an absurd episode of "What Obama Really Meant" I don't have the energy to argue with you.  Go on thinking that what he actually said was OK because, in your mind, he was talking about something that is OK to talk about.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:46:18 PM EST
    What he said was quite idiotic.  I'm unsurprised that you think it was completely defensible.

    Parent
    PA & OH were not part of the Confederate (none / 0) (#188)
    by angie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:09:09 PM EST
    so your analysis to Krugman's "rebel flag" types is not apropo.  

    Parent
    Perhaps you think so, but Krugman (none / 0) (#221)
    by angie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:26:31 PM EST
    was talking about small town mid-westerns when he spoke about "rebel flag types", so for you to extrapolate what he said into his agreeing with you on this is shoddy analysis.  

    Parent
    yes - these are the Reagan Democrats (none / 0) (#208)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:20:27 PM EST
    now voting for Hillary.


    Parent
    I mean - (none / 0) (#210)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:21:50 PM EST
    the Reagan Dems that have been voting for Hillary.


    Parent
    Tell ya what, RL -- you come here (none / 0) (#283)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:56:18 PM EST
    to the heartland, and we'll head into some diners and other spots, where you can tell my neighbors that they're filled with hate for immigrants -- be sure to say so to the many of us whose grandparents still with us immigrated here . . . and then we'll head to the churches filled this Sunday, as they are always, and you can tell us that we only showed up now because we're bitter.  

    We didn't build these churches on every other block and up to the sky because we were thankful and faithful in the good times, too, knowing that is the sort of faith that gets us through the hard times.  We don't toss money in the basket every Sunday, harder as it is by the day to do so here, for our outreach to even more immigrants we brought here -- where, for example, there are some of the largest Hmong communities in the country.

    You come here to the heartland and tell us that we're small-minded small-towners, and we'll see how that goes.  You can pave the way for your candidate to come on back and see how it goes for him if he heads even 40 miles outside of Chicago.

    Parent

    Not, it's not (none / 0) (#129)
    by lilburro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:41:33 PM EST
    he's saying because of job loss and ineffective government, people "get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."  He says nothing at all about the GOP manipulating people at this level.  He just says people ARE at this level.  And that is bad.


    Parent
    So then you agree these people are ... (none / 0) (#184)
    by davnee on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:07:23 PM EST
    ... deluded gun-toting, bigoted Jesus-Freaks and like Obama are proud to say so out loud to the beautiful people tittering about it over their wine and cheese?  Then your candidate is going to have the nerve to ask for these poor rubes' votes?

    Parent
    And donations . . . (none / 0) (#192)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:11:16 PM EST
    Remember, it's a little people funded campaign, when he's not hitting up big donors that is.

    Parent
    It's new to insult them while courting them (none / 0) (#205)
    by davnee on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:19:41 PM EST
    FYI (none / 0) (#212)
    by angie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:22:42 PM EST
    I believe when the Dems refer to the so-called "God, Guns & Gayz crowd" they are referring to the 28% who cling to W, not the people whose votes they are trying to get.

    Parent
    Then (5.00 / 3) (#236)
    by sas on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:48:38 PM EST
    you would be assuming wrong.

    There are tons of blue collar Democrats in PA who are miners, were steelworkers, railroad workers , and farmers.  People like them built this country.  They have worked hard all their lives and don't need a latte sipping, Harvard educated elite, analyzing their psyche with a bunch of San Francisco billionaires.

    They have been Democrats all their lives.  And they are religious. (Some of them like guns and hunting. ) They were religious a long time before they lost their jobs.

    Most of them don't give a rat's ass about gays one way or the other.  I know this because I grew up with them.  (PS I have a Master's degree in mathematics, so you wouldn't call me a rube- but I understand how they feel and they are good people at heart.)

    There is no way this man can be elected.  Hillary does understand them and they will support her.  She is our only hope.

    Obama doesn't even realize what he has said.

    Add 5 points to Hillary in PA, Ky, W Va, Ind.   Take a few away from him in Ore, and Mont, and SD.

    Parent

    I applaud your circular logic (none / 0) (#227)
    by angie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:30:12 PM EST
    but you keep leaving out the "ones whose votes you are trying to get" part.  I'll type really, really slow, so try to keep up -- it isn't such a great idea to insult people who you are trying to get to vote for you.  


    Parent
    That San Fransisco fund-raiser was quite something (5.00 / 5) (#126)
    by ajain on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:40:59 PM EST
    I mean he came up with his ridiculous foreign policy cred rationale and trashed middle america all at once.

    Somehow that just seems too much to take.

    You get to see his arrogance and his elitism all at the same time. That's just amazing.

    Obama behind closed doors . . . (none / 0) (#171)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:58:41 PM EST
    don't forget this part of his FP remarks:

    "It's ironic because this is supposedly the place where experience is most needed to be Commander-in-Chief. Experience in Washington is not knowledge of the world. This I know. When Senator Clinton brags 'I've met leaders from eighty countries'--I know what those trips are like! I've been on them. You go from the airport to the embassy. There's a group of children who do native dance. You meet with the CIA station chief and the embassy and they give you a briefing. You go take a tour of a plant that [with] theassistance of USAID has started something. And then--you go."

    "You do that in eighty countries--you don't know those eighty countries. So when I speak about having lived in Indonesia for four years, having family that is impoverished in small villages in Africa--knowing the leaders is not important--what I know is the people. . . ."

    That was quite a talk he had there. Too bad Mr New Media forgot himself and New media  ;)

    Parent

    Harvard Brainiac, part deux (none / 0) (#259)
    by ineedalife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:46:09 PM EST
    Papa Bush skewered Dukakis and his ivory tower worldview with the Harvard Brainiac quip. Here it comes again.

    Parent
    DailyKos (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by boredmpa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:40:59 PM EST
    I never read DailyKos, found this site through Krugman at some point I think.  But anyway, I can't believe "The field's" update over there.

    "In fact, he was saying that rural Pennsylvanians are not racist! "

    What Kool-Aid are people drinking?  Obama said racism wasn't the only thing going on, he said there were issues believing a 47 yr old african american AND issues trusting gov't after the clinton and bush admins.  I suppose one could view saying racism isn't the only issue as progress.

    He seems to be saying (5.00 / 4) (#201)
    by badger on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:15:40 PM EST
    "They used to just hate black people, but now they hate the government, foreigners and black people."

    Parent
    ugh (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by proudliberaldem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:45:52 PM EST
    i'm so frustrated by the press defending this as 'brave truth telling'.  1) once again the press is being presumptuous in telling voters how they should interpret everything and 2) it was a dismissive and insulting comment.  maybe he meant well and just misspoke.  and yes, we can and should have intelligent discussion about how economic fears feed   anti-immigrant sentiments.  but the way he said it, and where he said it, was patronizing and demeaning.    

    Well (none / 0) (#144)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:48:32 PM EST
    There's a perfectly reasonable way to make the claim that immigrants get unfairly scapegoated when times are tough.  In fact, I've heard Obama do exactly that, most notably at the Los Angeles debate.

    It's when you start throwing guns and God in there as things that people cling to for psychological reasons that you start having a problem.

    Parent

    precisely (none / 0) (#159)
    by proudliberaldem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:54:19 PM EST
    and i actually liked that Obama comment at the LA debate.

    Parent
    Another confirmation (none / 0) (#149)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:49:45 PM EST
    "The press is elitist and liberal" need the RNC say anything more?  

    Parent
    Political games (none / 0) (#258)
    by bison on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:44:15 PM EST
    I feel like I'm being played both ways.  Do you really think that he was trying to put down the very people that he is trying to get to vote for him?  It doesn't make sense.  Too many political games on all sides.

    Parent
    Oh (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by sas on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:47:52 PM EST
    yeah,

    This is just what small town disadvantaged America is looking for....a Harvard educated latte sipping elite to explain their psyche.

    I'm sure they'll be lining up to vote for him.

    Add ten points to Hillary in PA, KY, W VA, and Ind.

    Take a few points away from Obama in NC, Ore, Mont, and SD.

    Is he talking about ... (5.00 / 3) (#166)
    by dwmorris on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:57:12 PM EST
    the bitter angels of our nature?

    Listen (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:11:39 PM EST
    You've made the same comment about 20 times in this thread.  Either people are going to buy your interpretation of Obama's comments or they're not.  There is no reason to spam the comment section with the same point.

    how to win hearts and minds... (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by white n az on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:20:05 PM EST
    doesn't seem to be that this is the way but hey, maybe he wins by dismissing small town Pennsylvania by lumping them this way.

    The latest explanation from Indiana tonight (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by Grey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:26:48 PM EST
    Obama's comments tonight, as read by Keith Olbermann just a few minutes ago on Countdown:

    "I'm in touch. I know exactly what's going on in Pennsylvania. I know what's going on in Indiana. I know what's going on in Illinois. People are fed up; they're angry and they're frustrated and they're bitter and they want to see a change in Washington and that's why I'm running for President of the United States of America."

    This just won't do.  It just won't do.  It does not explain, nor does it clarify, anything.  I think this makes it worse, actually, but we'll see.


    It smacks of arrogance. (none / 0) (#238)
    by lilburro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:51:31 PM EST
    You have to show it.  You have to prove you're in touch.  Aside from the fact that a blanket statement like that will never be accurate.  Was he in touch with South Carolina when he sent out McClurkin?  Somehow I think that if I lived in SC I wouldn't have felt so touched by that.

    But no, let's continue alienating hardworking, voting, considerate Americans who make less money than us.  

    Parent

    It might be better to listen to (none / 0) (#255)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:38:48 PM EST
    in writing it sounds angry and frustrated (bitter).

    I'm in touch. I know exactly what's going on. I know what's going on. I know what's going on. That's why I'm running for President of the United States of America.

    Not good.

    Parent

    I've seen the video (none / 0) (#262)
    by Grey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:48:50 PM EST
    It makes it worse.  He starts by saying this:

    "Out of touch?  Out of touch?"  

    And it goes downhill from there.  You can watch it here, the part I quoted starts at 2:25 or so.

    Parent

    I wish I hadn't watched that (none / 0) (#276)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:30:48 PM EST
    so dishonest and shifting the blame. maybe he should have played them the audio of what he really said, including the part that implies they could be racist. I'm sure they would like to hear the laughter from the crowd . . .

    Parent
    It is a gaffe alright! (none / 0) (#256)
    by bison on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:40:22 PM EST
    Why does it make it worst?  Do you really think that he was disparaging working class people in Pennsylvania and across the Midwest?  The very people he is trying to get to vote for him?  Get real!  This is a gaffe, but I mot sure who this gaffe belongs to.

    Parent
    That's it? "I know." That's it? (none / 0) (#267)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:12:01 PM EST
    That's almost as arrogant as the statement he is supposed to correct.  "I know what's going on" -- so just keep clinging to your faith and your guns and your bitterness, just trust the Harvard guy knows."

    I'm running because I know, because I took a bus trip around your state.  And you don't know anything about your lives at all, stupid small-towners.

    Uh huh.

    Parent

    Gee, I live in one of those small towns. (5.00 / 4) (#229)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:30:57 PM EST
    Must be me he is talking about. Bitter? No. Religious, Bad Catholic. You know the type, Pro Choice and love the holidays. But I am a good bowler. Have trophies that I got when I lived in San Diego and was on a company team. I am employed. My commute is 2 miles and I am an accountant. My house is a 3000 sq ft converted dairy barn on 2 acres. I have a new car and all the other materialistic things I want. My broadband line is faster than my brother's road runner service in Calif. This was a farming community. Now it is a family community. There are no more bitter people than there are in any other state in the union. What, are ALL the people happy in Florida or New York or California?    I am late to the show on this as my cousin who goes back and forth to NJ showed up and wanted to know what day he needed to be back to vote for Hillary. We were discussing politics and I missed this whole thing. But, it sure got me hot. First, he insinuates that all the people do here is bowl. Now we are bitter and gun happy and clinging to religion. Right. I choose to live in a small town with NO stop lights. I can be at a Home Depot in 15mins and Macy's and other box stores in 25min. But everything I need is within 5 miles. I choose to live in a small town because I lived in Ft. Lauderdale & San Diego. I traded traffic for less pay, no mortgage, and a tractor to mow my lawn. I  have traveled to every state including Alaska. I would say I consider myself cosmopolitan and know which fork to use. I could go on but I am calmer now. This Mr.Obama just really is a rookie. He sounds as if he knows the temperature of the people in our small towns but he did not know his friend was a slum lord or his minister was such a radical.    

    Living in a similar (none / 0) (#257)
    by Arcadianwind on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:40:32 PM EST
    setting, I have the same sense of this Mr. obama, and his thinly veiled bigotry. He is the one who is bitter.

    Parent
    I'm back in the big city now (none / 0) (#269)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:18:53 PM EST
    but in a neighborhood where I can walk everywhere, a neighborhood like the small town where I lived much like yours -- and I know what you mean.  A farming community now a family community is a good description . . . but the church is still there, right in the center of town.  Even if you don't go every Sunday, you know its location is more than symbolic in a small town, living a centered life.

    Parent
    Yep, the church is in the middle of town (none / 0) (#272)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:26:33 PM EST
    One bank, a Post Office, 2 restaurants, a hardware store, gas, convenience store, body shop, and a saloon. But the church is not the main concern here. You know if you are passing around 6:30 on a Saturday night, there is the traffic letting out, but even then, it is workable. They have great Fireman's Parades and the 4th of July fireworks over the lake is fantastic. And today I saw my first crocus when I got home and the daffodils are ready to bloom. And people were talking about the large robins this year, the gas prices, and Hillary.  Maybe Obama was talking to the bitter Republicans. Ha!

    Parent
    Add this to the two minds of Barack Obama -- (5.00 / 0) (#235)
    by Oje on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:47:42 PM EST
    The Hope and Bitterness Campaign for America

    or he could change the name of his tour to:

    The Road to Change or Cynicism Bus

    So when does he give us a speech (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by ineedalife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:50:30 PM EST
    lecturing us on the finer points of rural culture in America? He can throw his grandparents even further under the bus. After all they were from Kansas so they must be over-flowing with xenophobic, gun-toting, religion.

    I guess no one in the media will note the irony that in Obama-world bitter rural America "clinging" to religion is implicitly bad, but bitter AA churches gleefully doing the "God Damn America" to vent  frustrations are healthy.

    His comments on it tonight... (5.00 / 1) (#251)
    by mike in dc on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:32:32 PM EST
    ...were pretty good, and he deftly used the fact that Clinton and McCain attacked him on it to counterattack them on their own "working class street cred" problems(McCain needed 3 tries before taking the subprime crisis seriously, Clinton voted for the middle-class-destroying bankruptcy bill).  I'm sure there will be fallout next week, but he can  probably turn it around on Clinton if she attacks him on it at the next debate.

    Bureau of Labor Statistics (5.00 / 7) (#252)
    by jen on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:33:26 PM EST
    "You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration--"

    They did?

    This sounds a bit like a backhanded swipe at the Clinton administration-- chronicalling the staggering job loss we all remember during those (ick!) disastrous 90's... This strikes me as yet more historical revisionism. Sorry - but I need to put on my Clark's Army Boots and fight back! :)

    I'm reminded of that Chris Rock routine; "Everything's Clinton's fault. Clinton did it!"

    The Bureau of Labor statistics doesn't seem to agree with Obama on this one. They say that the Clinton years in Pennsylvania were actually very GOOD for jobs! (Caveat: They might be part of the shadowy Clinton Machine...);P

    =========

    Unemployment rate in Pennsylvania when Clinton took office was high-- hovering at just under 8% (7.6- 7.8%)

    During his two-term administration, unemployment rate was cut in half.(Ending right at around 4%) In a steady decline year over year, unemployment went from around half a million unemployed in 1992 to just over 200,000 when Clinton left office. So over a quarter of million Pennsylvanians went OFF unemployment during that time.

    But guess what happened next?

    After Bush was sworn in, the unemployment in PA took an immediate upturn.

    And because we're talking about industrial towns here... this is the graph detailing manufacturing jobs in Pennsylvania from 1992 right up until 2008.

    See that precipitous drop right at... oh look-- at 2000! And then it keeps going down, down, down, all the way to ... 2008. There's your job loss.

    I think Mr. Axelrod should advise Senator Obama that "Clinton did it" is a poor mythology to use when talking economic matters.

    (All statistics from BLS - Bureau of Labor Statistics -- h/t ms in la)

    It's worthwhile to spend a moment (5.00 / 2) (#260)
    by frankly0 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:47:17 PM EST
    analyzing the ugliest sentence Obama uttered:

    And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

    What do all of the things that Obama says people "cling" to have in common?

    They are, obviously, by Obama, being held in a very real disdain. He is, without question, being disparaging of each item in that list. Each of those things are things people "cling to" because, in their bitterness, they are turning to something negative.

    And what heads that list? Guns and religion.

    Basically, the man has gone out of his way to besmirch two things that tens of millions of voters hold very dear.

    The clear meaning of the statement stands on its own. No amount of "context" could possibly make it go away.

    Well, I don't think (from an electability (4.88 / 9) (#56)
    by tigercourse on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:12:09 PM EST
    standpoint) that this is nearly as bad as Wright, but man it would be nice if Democrats could someday develop the slightest hint of how to run a campaign. We're getting worse at this stuff, not better.

    Telling a bunch of rich guys in San Francisco that people from the midwest are bitter gun lovers and god worshippers (this coming from the very religious Obama) who hate outsiders. That's real smart.

    What an odd thing to say... (4.85 / 7) (#49)
    by OrangeFur on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:10:14 PM EST
    When combined with the "typical white person" comments about his grandmother, one could understand why some people might start thinking that Barack Obama doesn't have a very high opinion of white working class people

    The message seems to be a backhanded compliment: You're good people. Yes, you possess all sorts of negative traits--xenophobia, racial bias, fundamentalism, gun ownership--but don't worry, it's not your fault! It was bred into you, or it's because you're anxious about jobs.

    If this narrative takes root before November, it's going to be pretty bad for Obama.

    actually (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by boredmpa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:32:34 PM EST
    The prior paragraphs to the gaffe involve him pointing out the racial aspect of the situation.  He's basically trying to say there are several things that hurt trust in his message and he's framing it as "not just race."

    So in addition to focusing on bitterness (and blaming it on bush and clinton admins), explaining that bitterness leads to guns/church/xenophobia, he's also addressing the usual race talking point.

    Parent

    The fact that he's blaming (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by rooge04 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:08:03 PM EST
    anything like bitterness and xenophobia or anything else at the foot of the Clinton administration makes me physically ill. These days I hear Lewinsky from Obama supporters, not Republicans.

    Parent
    I'm back (4.80 / 5) (#53)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:11:00 PM EST
    Keith doesn't know it was an Obama supporter that put the tape out.  He is making it seem like Clinton must have something to do with it since it happened last Sunday but is only coming out today.

    I watched Olberman... (none / 0) (#226)
    by mbuchel on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:29:29 PM EST
    ...and I certainly didn't get that read.  He asked why it was held for a week, but he certainly didn't accuse the Clintons.

    Parent
    C'mon Edwards...now be a man (4.75 / 4) (#21)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:55:45 PM EST
    cut Obama loose.  Make a stand.  Stand up for poor Americans.  One America my you know what.  Just like the Republicans, they want their America.  It's the America that got all the benefits of the 60.70, 80 and 90s and their children and now they don't want to let the lower income people in.  They want to lock the alleged gifts of the mythological American meritocracy.  This is the battle.  It's class war.  Edwards had it right.  

    Edwards...needs to come out of hiding (4.75 / 4) (#44)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:07:29 PM EST
    Get him on that one.  He attacked  his reason for running.  Those poor Americans.  I don't think he just attacked white poor americans, he attacked all poor americans. Saying that stuff in Getty's mansion and pretending he is for change.  Geepers kreepers what planet are we on.  

    OK here's KO (4.75 / 4) (#51)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:10:41 PM EST
    I don't care for his show but..... he gave Obama's quotes and said McCain and Clinton are after him like 'starved lions.'  Can I quit watching now?    McCain's comments, Obama response to McCain. It is about cynicism.

    Richard Wolffe trotted out. RW: Plenty to attack Obama about.  Misspoke... cultural issues, guns and religion.  If the debate is about eliticism, Obama has grounds to attack as the other candidates are wealthier than him. (ok)

    KO: Clinton after hm with guns blazing... careful tread?  RW: Back to kitchen sink, of course you pounce.  Obama can say this is how I am coming to terms with voters. (???) Useful diversion from Boznia issue.

    KO:  GOP has called for denouncing Obama's remarks.  Decent people, gun rights, constitution, faith....

    5:10 on to Clinton and Bosnia.

    Although I won't turn on Olbermann (4.75 / 4) (#54)
    by Dave B on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:11:44 PM EST
    I guess he's on his show "providing context" for the statement.

    Good Lord.  I believe that Olbermann feels the same way about Rednecks.

    I live in South Dakota, and I can tell you, Democrats would get a lot more vote here if folks didn't have the perception that they were viewed as "rednecks."  Rural Americans are people too.

    Will tonight's speech (4.75 / 4) (#69)
    by kmblue on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:17:57 PM EST
    go down in history, like the other one did?
    Remember the goal:
    Change the subject

    Good response (4.66 / 3) (#1)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:43:06 PM EST
    This gives the media the opportunity to report his response before they even report the "gaffe". They like being able to get ahead of the news.

    Lou Dobbs show is (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:45:51 PM EST
    not cutting him any slack whatsoever. They have been piling on nonstop for 45 minutes now. And they are going until the end of the hour talking about what a HUGE problem this is for Obama. I can't keep watching but I hope someone tells us how KO covers the story in about 16 minutes.

    Parent
    Hoosiers aren't gonna be happy, either (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:47:43 PM EST
    "If this is the description of small towns in the Midwest that Sen. Obama is telling people in San Francisco, he clearly hasn't spent enough time in Indiana," said the former speaker of Indiana's House, John Gregg in a statement.

    "Those of us who live in small towns across Indiana are hardworking Americans who love and fight for our country, and live where we do because we believe it's the best place to raise our kids and call home," Gregg said.

    "Sen. Obama should focus his campaign on offering plans to help struggling Hoosiers create a better life and not mock them for their small town values and religious beliefs."

    Ouch.  This is gonna come up over and over until the Indiana primary. . . .

    Parent

    It really depends on how the media... (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:04:17 PM EST
    ...play this. Right now, it's "Big News".  Unfortunatly, he said this at a time when reporters are a bit light on actual news and people haven't left for summer vacation yet. The Clinton "controversy" is not very significant - even our beloved MSM are going to have a hard time making Bill Clinton's distortions about Hillary Clinton's distortions look interesting. Really, what is the spin? Bill Clinton lies?  Yeah, right. And dogs have fur. Bill Clinton defends wife? Er... that's not really a bad thing.

    But Obama came along with a HUGE gaffe at just the right time. In a just and rational world, this would be news for a week, like the much smaller gaffes of the Clinton campaign. BUT ... this is not a just and rational world. It's Obamaland. Obama provided the media with some fascinating material (Wright) a few weeks ago, the media ran with it, and Obama made a speech which was universally praised (at least in Obamaland) and completely shut down the discussion. Obama has now provided comments on the latest controversy and the media can proceed to discuss the "gaffe" in "context".  If patterns hold, then the next step will be that Obama will clarify his remarks and the media will fall all over themselves praising him for his clarity and vision.

    At the same time... a few more Americans decide to vote for McCain or stay home because they just don't like Obama.  They will decide that Obama is just a bit too sure of himself, just a bit too "audacious".  

    I've decided, by the way... that's going to be how the right attacks Obama. Gore was known for honesty, so they made him out to be a liar. Kerry was known for being courageous, so they made him into a coward. Obama is reputed to be "the common man", so they are going to make him out to be elitist. With Wright and Rezko and now this, he has given them enough material. All they have to do is fill in the spaces.

    Parent

    A Harvard grad who went to prep school (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:17:21 PM EST
    and talks like an Easterner, whose mother had a Ph.D. (even though as a returning older student, but details get missed), whose father went to Harvard and whose relatives include officials in Kenya, whose grandfather owned a business and whose grandmother was a bank VP . . . uh, the guy is in the elite.

    The GOP won't have to "make" him that.  But will the media use it?  Toobin on CNN and others today tried to tell us that Obama's entire upbringing was in near-poverty, that the Obamas don't make much money compared to the McCains and Clintons, blah blah.

    First, the Obamas make more money than anyone most Americans know.  More to the point, the immediate thought is well, sure, he hasn't made as much yet because he's so much younger than McCain or Clinton.  Hmm, maybe too young . . . and inexperienced?  No way any of this plays well.

    Parent

    And I'll bet that (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by TheRefugee on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:30:39 PM EST
    win or lose, when Obama returns to the private sector and writes yet another autobiography, receives 6 figure speaking fees, invests in enterprises that return profits...his supporters won't be clamoring for his tax returns or questioning the fact that he has a ton of money.

    Parent
    We are watching tyranny at work (none / 0) (#123)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:39:52 PM EST
    Information that any one of us can get, in the MSM does not even get out in the fresh air.  

    Parent
    And your point is (none / 0) (#146)
    by IndiDemGirl on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:49:15 PM EST
    that we shouldn't vote for Obama because he went to Harvard and had parents that were educated? Hillary Clinton's background is even more of the same, yes?  So by your own criteria we shouldn't vote for her either.  

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#160)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:54:22 PM EST
    Hillary's father was a textile salesman who went to Penn State on a football scholarship.  Her mother was a high-school educated housewife.

    Not that I think it's particularly relevant to judge people by their parents.  It just sounded like you might have no clue.

    Parent

    I am well aware of her background (none / 0) (#182)
    by IndiDemGirl on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:06:57 PM EST
     I happily voted for Bill Clinton and think he was a good President.  I will happily vote for Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee, though it is unlikely that I will vote for her in the upcoming Indiana primary.  I was responding to the comments about Obama's parents and education.   To rule out Obama because he went to Harvard would also rule out Hillary as she attended Wellesley and Yale Law School.  So maybe it is you that have no clue.

    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#190)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:10:10 PM EST
    when you referred to Obama's parents I thought you were actually making a point about his parents.

    Parent
    Did Harvard allow women then? (none / 0) (#203)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:17:26 PM EST
    for some reason I thought she went to Yale because Harvard wasn't an option because of her gender?

    Parent
    Harvard has been effectively coed (none / 0) (#243)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:12:31 PM EST
    for something like 150 years (Radcliffe College, totally integrated academically with Harvard, just separate dorms, etc.)  Hillary did not go to Yale undergrad, which was all-male at the time.  She only went there for law school.  She went to Wellesley, I believe, but in any case an all-women's college.

    Parent
    thanks! now I have to figure out why (5.00 / 1) (#261)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:47:49 PM EST
    I thought that . . . hmmm, my poor scrambled brain, lol!

    Parent
    don't know about harvard (none / 0) (#263)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:52:38 PM EST
    I do know that columbia didn't allow women when obama went there in the late 70s/early 80s.

    Parent
    Harvard officially admitted women in 1972 (none / 0) (#275)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:28:45 PM EST
    after she graduated from Wellesley.  

    Women "at" Harvard really went to Radcliffe.  No Harvard on their diplomas.

    Parent

    Not because of (none / 0) (#183)
    by sas on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:07:18 PM EST
    his background, but because of what he says.

    Parent
    No the point was.. (none / 0) (#246)
    by ineedalife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:19:06 PM EST
    that the show the commenter saw was presenting a distorted view of Obama's background. If you had read the thread you would realize that.

    Parent
    No, Girl, the point is his hypocrisy (none / 0) (#273)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:27:19 PM EST
    in painting himself as poor when he wasn't, and as so much more that he isn't that I can't say here.

    And no, Clinton's background is quite different -- she went to public school, he went to a private prep school.  

    And she went to a women's college, and on scholarship.  Why not Harvard?  Well, Harvard wasn't even admitting women then.  Learn history.

    Parent

    is cable showing pics of Billionaires Row? (none / 0) (#100)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:31:42 PM EST
    or Getty's house? etc.


    Parent
    My entry in the How Repugs will Attack Contest (none / 0) (#147)
    by Ellie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:49:20 PM EST
    I've decided, by the way... that's going to be how the right attacks Obama. Gore was known for honesty, so they made him out to be a liar. Kerry was known for being courageous, so they made him into a coward. Obama is reputed to be "the common man", so they are going to make him out to be elitist.

    Elitism is always a noxious ingredient in the flaming bag of poo, but I'm guessing they'll strategically smear him with every single Bush character defect, rotten tendencies and corruption.

    The basis of my suspicion is as follows:

    It pre-emptively excuses any GOP candidates cho rubber stamped and wagon circled during the dismal Bush / Cheney era.

    It maintains the unfair, lazy standard of automatically outsourcing of half the blame onto Dems ("they all do it"; "a pox on both their houses").

    It's so evil, they just gotta go for it.

    Parent

    I don't think his response will do well (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by ahazydelirium on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:46:46 PM EST
    in Pennsylvania. Now, it could deflate the effects; however, I think it'll hit the fence sitters. Obama supporters will start the "Oh, he talks to us like adults" meme; Hillary supporters will play up how offensive its implications are; fence sitters, though, could pick a side, depending on how it falls. Personally, I think it'll be played badly in PA. This might help make the primary a blow-out for Hillary.

    Parent
    In PA (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by sas on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:14:02 PM EST
    Obama's comments are going to piss people off BIG TIME.

    So, when Pennsylvanians get bitter they turn to Guns and God.  What do elitists turn to?

    LATTES?

    Parent

    Spas. (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by Ben Masel on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:28:13 PM EST
    And self-help books that cost $39.99 each (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by davnee on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:34:41 PM EST
    That's a week's groceries for a family a careful shopper at WalMart.

    Parent
    Self-help books are a bad idea but (none / 0) (#198)
    by ahazydelirium on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:13:49 PM EST
    a spa trip sounds delightful.

    Parent
    Yeah, the GOP does (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by badger on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:44:28 PM EST
    and the electorate responds favorably.

    And you seem to think the way to counter this is to call people fundamentalist, bigoted, gun-totin' boobs.

    The GOP strategy has been to make small-town and blue-collar people believe Democrats look at them that way. And now Obama proves the GOP was right all along.

    Brilliant.

    Parent

    Badger, you called it here -- (none / 0) (#277)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:30:50 PM EST
    that is exactly the problem.  Obama said what Republicans say but have more sense than to say on tape.  

    Parent
    ahaha (none / 0) (#82)
    by boredmpa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:21:40 PM EST
    My mother is a UCC minister in PA.

    I can't WAIT to hear her response to this...

    Parent

    Obama can kiss... (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by OxyCon on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:14:33 PM EST
    ...any chance he ever had of winning the general election goodbye.
    In fact, I'd advise Hillary to pick someone else for VP, because Obama will drag her down.

    You add this in with the flag pin, not placing his hand over his heart, Rev "God Damn the US of KKK A, "Typical White People", Michelle "I'm finally proud of America", and I think this is the straw that breaks Obama's back.

    He's no longer electable in the general.

    The Repubs can (and will) say all kinds of nasty things about Hillary. But one thing they can't call her is an America hating, elitist snob. And that doesn't play well with most Americans.

    Parent

    exactly! (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:33:51 PM EST
    "GD America!" won't stand a chance against a POW war hero.

    Parent
    exactly! (none / 0) (#106)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:33:51 PM EST
    "GD America!" won't stand a chance against a POW war hero.

    Parent
    yep (none / 0) (#16)
    by kempis on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:53:47 PM EST
    I agree.

    Parent
    It is a good response (5.00 / 10) (#15)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:53:34 PM EST
    But I don't think think people are going to ignore what he said. I believe the GOP, with an assist from the media, will use it to start building the meme that he's an elitist and out of touch with the common man. We're going to see pictures of Obama in bowling shoes from now until November.

    People like to feel that their Presidents understand them. Bill Clinton was mocked for feeling people's pain, but he did feel it and it helped make him electable despite the fact that he was usually the smartest guy in the room. (Only "usually" because sometimes, Hillary was in the room too.)

    Parent

    Great minds think alike ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:10:26 PM EST
    I just wrote the same thing in a comment. By the time the election comes around, Americans will see Obama as an arrogant, wealthy product of the Illinois patronage system. His church will be turned into a black supremacist outfit. His association with Rezko will be proof positive that he supports fatcats. His "bowling" moment will be seen as a publicity stunt meant to con the common man into thinking Obama thinks he is one of them. I wonder how the right is trying to work that into the campaign? I have a feeling that they will.

    Parent
    A little early (none / 0) (#153)
    by jen on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:51:30 PM EST
    He hasn't got it wrapped up yet. There's still a chance for Hillary to win. This will be smoothed over by Monday and either Bill, or someone else in Clinton's camp will (according to the media) out do this gaffe with one that will last into next week.


    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by nell on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:15:45 PM EST
    He was smart for getting in front of this quickly, but I don't this statement does anything to help him...it basically says Obama has always said Americans are angry at Washington. True enough. But has he always said that this anger has turned them into bitter gun-toting, racist, religious people? Of course not. I don't think his statement says much of anything at all, it is basically filler. In addition to what the statement says, he should have taken responsibility and noted that his words came out poorly.

    Parent
    It gives them an "out" (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:19:45 PM EST
    This will give the media an opportunity to report on Obama's clarification of his words at the same time as they report on the words themselves. If the media choose to spin this in his favor, then this gives them an "out".  I've already seen this reported by Reuters as "Clinton attacks Obama for...", which led into a long article with minimal negative coverage of Obama and a lot of negative coverage of Clinton.  

    Parent
    And he IS Washington, he's a Senator -- (none / 0) (#278)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:33:44 PM EST
    and he just can't keep playing that anti-D.C. game, as people get on to it.

    Either he is part of Washington, where he has gained experience at how the government is run -- or he's too new to Washington, too inexperienced yet, to know.

    I have wondered how long it would take, what it would take, for this anti-D.C. stuff to stop working for him -- at least the way he spins it, which can come back at him.  Now may be when it will do so.

    Parent

    What really is interesting (4.66 / 3) (#5)
    by phat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:47:54 PM EST
    is that the reporter who apparently broke this almost didn't because she "didn't want to sink his campaign" or some such.

    What hasn't she reported? What hasn't been reported about this guy? If it's him and McCain trying to "out darling" each other I'm going to have to avoid all news until Nov.


    She's an Obaman and "citizen journalist" (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:54:55 PM EST
    so she said on CNN.  Has followed Obama all around Pennsylvania, has donated a lot to him, etc.  If she wanted to be an Obama delegate, though, I think she just got "purged."

    Btw, there are interesting questions that will be debated about taping at a private event from which journalists -- the regular kind -- were banned.

    Parent

    Well if she's donating to Obama (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by lilburro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:17:27 PM EST
    she's not really a journalist.  They don't get to do that.  Which leads us to reasonable questions about the trustworthiness of bloggers who do not impose such rules on themselves (apparently)...what are the rules for this kind of thing?

    Parent
    did Gov. Rendell say (none / 0) (#115)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:37:06 PM EST
    Obama's statement is racist?
    Obama supporters at The Orange are saying Rendell injected racism into it.
    ?????

    Parent
    I think Obama did. (none / 0) (#143)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:47:59 PM EST
    check out the first part of the text. It could be read that he's implying the good folks of PA that he so 'nicely' described might also be a bit racist. Read it and let me know what ya think. I read it a couple times and listened to the audio. Bothered me that folks thought it was funny . ..

    Parent
    Remember what your people (none / 0) (#151)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:51:12 PM EST
    did with Rendell's comment?  It was going on for days.  

    Parent
    Really, now. (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by lansing quaker on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:58:21 PM EST
    Obama's comments were specifically tuned to voters in the next Democratic primary election.

    He was referring to Pennsylvanians.  Not the electorate as a whole.  Not in Republican/Democratic campaign methodology.

    He referred to Pennsylvanians and even threw in Ohio for good measure.  It's insinuating these people are voting for Hillary - not Republicans - for the aforementioned reasons.

    No shade in the rainbow can paint that pretty.  And I'm gay.  I like rainbows.

    But I'm also a Michigan voter.  One of those Obama doesn't want to "count," and also one from a very Catholic family, a family of hunters, and also a family of FDR-style Dems.

    Whoops.

    Parent

    Really (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:09:33 PM EST
    So you think the reference to politicians who "say anything to win elections" but don't actually change anything was completely unrelated to his campaign theme of claiming Hillary will "say anything and change nothing"?

    Your perceptiveness and keen ear are sure on display throughout this thread.

    Parent

    Same reason NYT didn't print (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by litigatormom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:44:45 PM EST
    the domestic spying program story before the 2004 election -- it might have affected the election if voters found out what a lying scumbag their president and vice-president were.

    Parent
    Did she really (none / 0) (#78)
    by Lil on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:20:51 PM EST
    think this would be the thing to sink him? I'd be surprised but if it does, I hope it is now and not in the Fall.

    Parent
    Obama's response(s) (4.66 / 3) (#22)
    by OxyCon on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:55:49 PM EST
    I think this parody video succinctly wraps up Obama's style:

    http://videos.newsobserver.com/index.php?a=player&id=1816319

    Hillary doesn't need Jedi mind tricks (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by litigatormom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:47:51 PM EST
    to convince us that "Obama is not the candidate you are looking for."

    Parent
    I love that (none / 0) (#130)
    by Nadai on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:43:56 PM EST
    It's on the site of the main newspaper here in Raleigh, NC, too.  I hope it gets a lot of play between now and our primary in early May.

    Parent
    Hardball back live just for this (4.66 / 3) (#23)
    by Grey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:56:49 PM EST
    This story is so huge that, during the Hardball repeat, Matthews came back on the air LIVE to cover this.  It was only one segment in which he covered Obama's comments, showed Clinton's response on video ("Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them, they need a president who stands up for them.") and then said: "Clinton nailed Obama for being an elitist."

    After that, Hardball went back to its repeat.

    I wonder how Tweety's leg is feelin'? (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:15:20 PM EST
    Hillary is very smart... (4.66 / 3) (#27)
    by OxyCon on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:59:11 PM EST
    ...in keeping this campaign going so Americans can take a good look at the real Obama (not the David Axelrove created myth).

    This upcoming speech (4.66 / 3) (#43)
    by Lil on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:07:25 PM EST
    Is it going to soundlike "I'm not really an elitist; I have lots of friends who are hardworking regular joes..." I don't know how he pulls this off except for the press deciding to call off the hounds...which is entirely possible.

    It is the fault of the other (none / 0) (#91)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:26:36 PM EST
    candidates.  They have more money than him.  He's lucky she held it for a Friday.  It was reported he is supposed to be speaking about this tonight.  Is he in NC or IN?

    Parent
    The funny thing is (none / 0) (#97)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:30:48 PM EST
    the campaign at first "neither confirmed nor denied" that he even said it...shows that even to them it was a  GAFFE, not just a mis-interpreted statement in need of a W.O.R.M.

    Link

    Parent

    they were stalling for time (none / 0) (#120)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:38:52 PM EST
    writing a statement.


    Parent
    Along with Wright, this will be big. (4.66 / 3) (#46)
    by sas on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:08:16 PM EST
    Obama-a mistake in progress.

    This should teach him (4.66 / 3) (#62)
    by felizarte on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:15:34 PM EST
    to stick to prepared speeches instead of speaking extemporaneously because he tends to say things that he really believes in and they are oh so revealing of the real candidate, his attitudes, his analyses of the problems of the country.  This is probably why he speaks in generalities and his proposed policies are so lacking in specifics.

    i just checked (4.66 / 3) (#70)
    by Turkana on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:18:17 PM EST
    oddly, this story hasn't even been mentioned at some popular blogs...

    Hasn't been mentioned (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:20:48 PM EST
    at some popular blogs, including yours....;-)

    Parent
    heh (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Turkana on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:24:23 PM EST
    i don't do a lot of the horse race back-and-forth (note my new post)!. i won't be surprised if someone mentions it, however.

    Parent
    I think Chuck Todd (4.66 / 3) (#84)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:23:28 PM EST
    just said Obama was like Dukakis only with better speeches!

    fair point (none / 0) (#232)
    by kempis on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:40:52 PM EST
    I keep thinking that Obama is going to have a Dukakis-like effect on the electoral map in November.

    Parent
    Totally unfair to Dukakis (none / 0) (#250)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:25:39 PM EST
    who was not an elitist and who absolutely did know his stuff cold.  Dukakis was a lot more like Hillary than like Obama. (Also very, very badly advised by consultants to basically stifle himself.)

    Parent
    Of course (4.50 / 2) (#7)
    by lilburro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:49:52 PM EST
    he has to take a shot at Rendell in the speech...

    Has Rendell commented (none / 0) (#76)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:20:47 PM EST
    on this?  

    Parent
    I don't know. (none / 0) (#87)
    by lilburro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:24:23 PM EST
    But really, he had to put down Rendell?  Does Hillary do anything remotely like this (see:  Ted Kennedy).  

    Parent
    Whoops- (none / 0) (#95)
    by lilburro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:30:07 PM EST
    Actually, I think that is just Fowler speaking about her experience, not Obama.  My apologies for spreading this misinformation.

    Parent
    More WORM (4.50 / 2) (#8)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:50:00 PM EST
    and typical Obama tactics of trying to deflect his mistakes onto an opponent (in this case, McCain).

    I would have more respect for him if he would ever just admit that he misspoke.

    Like Clinton or McCain never do that (none / 0) (#10)
    by 1jane on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:51:32 PM EST
    Yes (none / 0) (#12)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:52:00 PM EST
    Obama isn't going to get away with blaming his own gaffes on McCain, like he's gotten away with blaming them on Hillary.

    Parent
    I think (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:54:00 PM EST
    the WORM is turning.

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#215)
    by sas on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:24:05 PM EST
    you are so right.

    Funny thing, I thought the worm was already turning this morning.

    Then I heard this, and I know the worm had done an about face and is marching towards Hillary.

    Parent

    I used to think this way (none / 0) (#13)
    by Lil on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:53:05 PM EST
    but have become much more cynical, or maybe realistic. I think it was good politics to try to shift it to McCain. That's what this is all about now, politics. In my interest, I hope he keeps jabbing back and forth with McCain, while Hillary rises above the fray...that'd be nice for a change.

    Parent
    Obama responding to McCain (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:04:46 PM EST
    fits into "Obama's arrogance" - annointing himself as the Dem nominee before PA and other states have voted.


    Parent
    yes, isn't there a saying (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by english teacher on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:10:13 PM EST
    about counting your chickens before they come home to roost?

    Parent
    Well, actually, it's before they hatch. (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by derridog on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:55:33 PM EST
    No, there isn't (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by badger on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:57:52 PM EST
    I think you mean "don't put all your eggs in one basket before they hatch". :)

    Parent
    Well, no. It's "Don't count your chickens (none / 0) (#176)
    by derridog on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:02:10 PM EST
    before they hatch." In other words, don't count them before you actually HAVE them.  This quote is pertinent to Obama's belief that he has the presidency.

    Parent
    That was a joke, son (none / 0) (#191)
    by badger on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:11:12 PM EST
    Or at least a feeble attempt

    Parent
    I don't think he has a good comeback (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by RickTaylor on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:17:27 PM EST
    for Hillary the way he does with McCain; he can't accuse her of pandering to the rich. I think responding to McCain and just taking the hit from her response is the best he can do; anything else would prolong the argument and not to his advantage.

    Parent
    What is W.O.R.M. ? (none / 0) (#155)
    by litigatormom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:51:47 PM EST
    What Obama (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:54:43 PM EST
    Really Meant


    Parent
    I'm not good with (none / 0) (#177)
    by litigatormom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:02:44 PM EST
    acronyms, I guess!

    Parent
    What is funny (none / 0) (#249)
    by waldenpond on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:23:03 PM EST
    is that one of the talking heads was trying to explain what Obama meant and then said.. I'm not going to say what Obama meant.... I wonder if they keep score on their show.

    Parent
    Inexperience (4.50 / 2) (#18)
    by BPeters on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:54:10 PM EST
    Are we going to find a way to blame Hillary for this comment?

    Do you HAVE to ask? (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by lansing quaker on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:03:11 PM EST
    Courtesy of the Big Orange.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/11/184846/580/332/493948

    So, really, it's all Hillary's fault because she is "victimizing" them.  Oy vey.

    Parent

    The Obama backer/blogger who broke this (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:21:21 PM EST
    quote at Politico herself wrote that Pennsylvanians are "chipper" despite all the hard times that have hit.  Sounds a lot like Clinton's "resilient" to me -- but the Orangeites probably don't get that it was an Obaman who broke this and said the same thing.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:36:49 PM EST
    This is clearly Rove's work.

    Parent
    So will the teevee networks (4.50 / 2) (#75)
    by jen on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:20:46 PM EST
    again give him free air time for a speech explaining what he really meant? Then spend the next 2 weeks praising his lofty rhetorical skills?

    Media's response to Obama's gaffe. (4.50 / 2) (#85)
    by TalkRight on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:24:05 PM EST
    MSNBC, KO : 10 minutes on speech 10 days old.. He has to face two opponents.. both McCain, Hillary "after" him on this..

    the rest of the show on Clinton's Gaffe.

    CNN, Roland Martin: Press fails to report "full" contest... Obama telling the "truth" but just like McCain said on MI the jobs not coming back.. pessimistic approach doesn't work. Clinton promised NY voters 20,000 jobs.. "they are bitter" cause there was loss of jobs..

    Everyone trying to prove he mis-stated..
    NOT ONE SAID: "HE HAS GOT ALL WRONG ON AMERICANS". Maybe he DOES carry the same thinking from Rev WIGHT.

    Well (5.00 / 4) (#89)
    by Steve M on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:25:42 PM EST
    The media elites basically think Obama was 100% right about what motivates the rubes.  They'll only understand that it's a gaffe in the sense of "true things you aren't supposed to say."

    Parent
    btw KO very BITTER (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by TalkRight on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:00:16 PM EST
    About McCain speaking up for FL/MI on American Idol..

    McCain: "Idol just like presidential race, except for FL/MI getting the right to vote"

    surprisingly, never thought a day would come that even McCain would be able to tease KO/left wing media about a fundamental democratic value such as voting rights!

    Parent

    KO just reported that Obama (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by litigatormom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:00:59 PM EST
    said in Terre Haute, Indiana that "I know what is going on in Pennsylvania,  I know what is going on in Indiana, and what is going on is that people are fed up, they are bitter, their government has failed them and that's why I am running for president."

    Well, that clears it all up, doesn't it?

    Parent

    I do not think Obama (none / 0) (#209)
    by Fabian on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:21:12 PM EST
    is running for President to rescue those poor, embittered souls.

    His speeches are getting more and more predictable though.  Pretty soon someone will have a ObamaOratory program that will accept inputs[state, target demographic, significant issues] and crank out a speech for him.

    So he manages to say "I am running for President specifically so I can save you and you and  you.".  It's a good line, but how often can he use it before someone says "Hey, the only Change we've seen in these parts is a change for the worse.  What will you do that is different than what everyone else did?".

    Parent

    Apparently, small-town Pennsylvanians (none / 0) (#280)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:40:50 PM EST
    and Midwesterners re not the change they have been waiting for, after all.

    But they can be, if they just vote for him.  Because he knows.  They don't need to know what, but he knows.

    Parent

    I almost can't wait (4.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Lil on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:48:06 PM EST
    to start taking on McCain full time. Obama's response was dead on; unfortunately for him it is from a defensive position. Just can't wait to go on offense.

    His response is (none / 0) (#9)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:50:38 PM EST
    falling very short. I don't think you get the effect of saying people turn to guns and religion because they are bitter.

    Parent
    no, no (none / 0) (#19)
    by Lil on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:54:34 PM EST
    I'm not saying that. I'm speaking strictly about his slap at McCain (his response), not his original gaffe comment.

    Parent
    Thank you Jeralyn (4.00 / 1) (#11)
    by indy33 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:51:56 PM EST
    For putting the WHOLE text from the speech up. I think that this was a political mistake but is right on the money. Of course people are bitter from losing their jbs while corporate ceo's are making millions. I am 100% bitter about how the goverment have handled the economic crisis. I know otherwise very reasonable people who beilive that all our problems can be blamed on Hispanic immigrants. This is sad but true and needs to be said. This is also a very important defense of immigrants in this country and it seems strange that it is viewed so poorly here.    

    But what about God and guns? (5.00 / 6) (#32)
    by davnee on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:03:11 PM EST
    Sure xenophobia is easy to link to bitterness, but God and guns?  Do you understand the profound insult Obama just levied against middle America?  He told them they fret about their right to hunt and defend their homes and families b/c they have hit hard times, and that they praise God because they are bitter that their government let them down.  By implication that means that employed, happy, educated and enlightened people, like the limousine libs in San Francisco, don't waste their time with such neanderthal things as religion or the right to bear arms.

    Parent
    Ouch. Good point. (5.00 / 5) (#57)
    by dianem on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:12:59 PM EST
    I'm not religious, so I didn't even think about this part of it. Obama just told a bunch of church-going people that the reason they go to church is to assuage their bitterness about how the world has treated them.  This cannot be a good thing.

    Parent
    It's certainly true (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:21:20 PM EST
    of his own church.

    Parent
    I noted that too (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by davnee on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:31:16 PM EST
    This guy is a monument to crap.  The fact that everyone kisses his butt is just so surreal.

    Parent
    And we have been churchgoing in good times (none / 0) (#281)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:46:33 PM EST
    and not just hard times.  To suggest that we turn to our faith only when we need it . . . well, it tells a lot of us that he does not have a grasp on what faith really means and is to Midwesterners.

    I've said it before -- he is not a Midwesterner.  All he knows is Chicago, which by its very nature is inherently and historically atypical (as it was built by absentee Easterners simply to take the money and run . . . which rather resonates with him).

    He is showing, more by the minute, that he does not get it -- he does not get how most heartlanders live.  Not in mansions, not going to church to hear hate, and not lecturing each other on how to live.

    Parent

    How many amendments did he just take down (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:19:15 PM EST
    . . . Constitutional law "prof" that he is?  Uh huh.

    Parent
    It's all in your interpretation I'm bitter and I (none / 0) (#244)
    by voterin2008 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:17:33 PM EST
    turn to god for guidance.  Before this election I would strongly consider a candidates positions on guns because that would be one of the only difinitive stances they may take.  I believe his statement is right on.  I'm bitter, I'm beyond bitter and upset and I appreciate for once a candidate has actually been honest with me and about how I feel.  And I know many people who feel the same way I do.  Part of a good leader is being honest, so spin it as you like for your candidate but I'm appauled that our leaders look us in the face, tell us the world is great, the war is great, we are not in a recession,  everything is great.  Give me someone with a real message over propeganda anyday.

    Parent
    CNN analyst just called this Wright (4.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Teresa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:53:27 PM EST
    on steroids. I think Wright will hurt far worse but I'm surprised at the attention this is getting. I hate to feel this way, but it's about time the media gave him a little grief after what Hillary has been through.

    this is an important story (4.00 / 1) (#24)
    by dem08 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:57:14 PM EST
    and I hope Progressive Blogs write about it every day until the convention.

    It is too bad there is no video, but perhaps a simulation by an actor will show why this remark makes Hillary and McCain the only real candidates.

    My prediction is that if the Media does its job and we see Specials on Obama's contempt for normal people, his elitist background, in twenty years people will be asking, "Where were you when you first heard Obama, if you remember him at all, just crucify the hard-working people of Pennsylvania in a fit of elitist rage."

    I just pray this ends Obama's career.

    he is giving a speech (none / 0) (#25)
    by bjorn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:58:52 PM EST
    in Indiana tonight to address the gaffe.

    Parent
    I predict (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:03:22 PM EST
    that by tomorrow the media will

    1.  Call his speech the best ever given by any person.

    2.  Say the issue is over.

    But again, the Republicans and 527's won't forget.

    Parent
    Time for the patented... (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by OxyCon on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:04:59 PM EST
    ...Obama "sweet talk".
    It's what Obama does when he gets in trouble. He calls for a "speech" so he can sweet talk his way out of it. He's so predictable.

    Parent
    The current thinking is that if (none / 0) (#36)
    by MKS on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:04:34 PM EST
    Hillary wins, Obama will be the VP.....

    It would seem likely that he'll be around for a long time....

    Parent

    Obama has already said NO to VP (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Josey on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:05:57 PM EST
    --- furthering the "arrogant" meme.


    Parent
    How nice of him {grin} n/t (5.00 / 2) (#199)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:14:50 PM EST
    Obama to address this in Indiana tonight (4.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:58:56 PM EST
    in another speech, says CNN.  No time stated yet.

    I'm shaking my head (none / 0) (#30)
    by Lil on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:02:53 PM EST
    unbelievable

    Parent
    I doubt that the entire (none / 0) (#41)
    by MKS on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:06:17 PM EST
    speech will deal with this issue....He will most likely address this during his normal stump speech.

    Parent
    Yep, not billed as a speech on this (none / 0) (#83)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:22:39 PM EST
    just that it will include this.  He doesn't have time to craft a full speech, anyway -- and we all were told that he wrote his other speech all by himself, etc.

    Parent
    Speeches will solve everything (5.00 / 6) (#93)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:29:01 PM EST
    For some time, I've had this picture of him, if he's elected President, bursting into flowery oratory to address any problem: recalcitrant Congress, tanking economy, foreign crises, etc. Like a character in a musical, spontaneously bursting into song.  

    Parent
    I can't stop laughing (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Lil on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:31:17 PM EST
    or get that image out of my head. Really. That could be cool though. LOL

    Parent
    LOL! Apply gooey Charisma (tm) to the latest wound (none / 0) (#228)
    by Ellie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:30:22 PM EST
    So much of the CW that Obama is the candidate of destiny takes for granted that this "charisma" is neither a material nor infinite quantity.

    It's even been listed as an "objective" quantity* which contrasts with the other one that Sen. Clinton is "divisive". (Scroll back to the "objective" DeLong analysis and it's right there on the pro-Obama list of quantifiable pro's.)

    Except (1) means "we like him" and (2) means "we hate her", and neither should be used to slant the pros and cons but TeamO always goes there.

    Yep, just plaster a heaping wad of Charisma onto that sucker and the seal will hold through whatever. Available at your finer BS mills.

    Parent

    Charisma! (5.00 / 1) (#271)
    by stillife on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:22:09 PM EST
    Apply directly to the forehead!

    Parent
    Some type of apology (none / 0) (#112)
    by MKS on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:36:10 PM EST
    about a misstatement....

    And then saying that he is trying to help people who have been left behind, just as did when he was a community organzier helping people who had lost their jobs at a steel mill.

    He will work hard at bringing back jobs....

    More trips to small town America....If he tries he will be rewarded....

     

    Parent

    omigod (none / 0) (#193)
    by Kathy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:11:34 PM EST
    you're kidding me?  Another Important Speech to soothe the masses.  What a freaking ego.  What a babe in the woods.

    Parent
    KO leads off with Bill, of course. (4.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Teresa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:01:08 PM EST


    What Bill said is "sad"?? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Teresa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:02:08 PM EST
    Now I know why I quit watching.

    Parent
    shaking my head again (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Lil on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:03:33 PM EST
    Now he calls Obama's comments heady (none / 0) (#40)
    by Teresa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:05:57 PM EST
    and intellectual but wonders if people will understand this.

    Parent
    So not only are they bitter (5.00 / 5) (#45)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:08:01 PM EST
    But KO says they're stoopid too? Awesome. Love that guy.

    Parent
    No surprise that a pompous elitist (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:08:28 PM EST
    named Olbermann would understand the "intellectual intention" of the statements.

    Olbermann is just as condescending on a regular basis.


    Parent

    And his guest tried to defend it (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:10:52 PM EST
    by saying Obama comes from a "less elevated" status than Hillary and McCain.

    Parent
    You have to be kidding. (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Dave B on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:15:53 PM EST
    They "come from" a more elevated status?

    What drugs are they on???

    Parent

    Should we forward an outline of his (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:17:16 PM EST
    upbringing to KO?

    Parent
    That's (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by sas on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:19:36 PM EST
    why KO loves him so much - of course, typical KO -the average man just can't understand the depths of Obama's words.

    Blame it on them.  

    Sorry, Jeralyn, if you delete this comment, but these people hav e their heads up their ass.

    Parent

    Turn it off.... (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:05:10 PM EST
    it's irrelevant, his audience are the blogger boyz.  

    Parent
    OK, I just did. He is wondering now how (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Teresa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:12:06 PM EST
    this made it to the news from last weekend. I guess he doesn't know it was an Obama supporter who taped it. He said it will be an interesting sub-story to find out. I guess it's like passport-gate - Clinton did it! Bye Keith.

    Parent
    I am proud of you, (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:37:15 PM EST
    but here is a cookie for taking one for the team.

    Parent
    Thanks for the Whole post! (4.00 / 1) (#42)
    by 1jane on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:06:18 PM EST
    The full contest pretty much shows Obama explaining the skepticism he receives as a candidate and why.

    Ah (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by Dave B on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:14:13 PM EST
    Thanks for clearing that up. They view me the way they do because they are rednecks.

    Parent
    OT: The "citizen journalist" (none / 0) (#107)
    by kmblue on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:34:00 PM EST
    who taped Obama's remarks at the event is brave.
    I'm guessing she taped in innocence, captured his remarks, struggled with her conscience, and broke the story.
    I repeat, I'm guessing at the circumstances.
    She has courage.
    Imagine the rage of Obama supporters who are not busily engaged in playing WORM games.
    She, an Obama supporter, thought this was important enough to make public.
    She's got most of the mainstream media beaten--hands down--on reporting instincts and skills.

    perhaps some good sense is prevailing among (none / 0) (#139)
    by TalkRight on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:47:47 PM EST
    Obama supporters ... finally they are realizing he is NOT what he says he IS.

    Yes, she was shocked by what he said.. because she does believe he did not misspoke, but he gets it WRONG when it comes to average Americans.. he calls then typical white, bitter... Hello?? is that Rev Wright speaking .. or are they the same?

    Parent

    Read or listen to the comments (none / 0) (#110)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:34:52 PM EST
    That's not what he said.

    WORM, now with more flavor (none / 0) (#165)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:57:08 PM EST
    Unfortunately, that's not even remotely what he said. He said the people in PA have lost their jobs and they are bitter at the government and so they cling to religion.

    His campaign's WORM statement was a nice statement. But it was mostly an attempt to change the subject. I don't think it will work.

    And I don't think you will win any fans by telling people that they are "easily manipulated."

    Parent

    Repeat it some more (none / 0) (#204)
    by angie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:18:47 PM EST
    it still will not make it a good argument.  I'll type really, really slowly, so maybe you can understand it -- it is not a good idea to insult people whose votes you are trying to get.  And FYI, when Dems complain about the so-called "God, Guns & Gay crowd" they are talking about the Republican 28% who still cling to W and whose votes they ain't ever gonna get.

    Parent
    It's not okay (none / 0) (#118)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:38:02 PM EST
    to say what he said.

    It is okay to say what you said.

    The two are utterly different.

    Tell that (none / 0) (#128)
    by kmblue on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:41:08 PM EST
    to the voters.

    Parent
    No, many of these are Clinton voters. (none / 0) (#150)
    by Teresa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:50:12 PM EST
    PA is a blue state (as of now).

    Parent
    Maybe if Obama wins. I don't remember (none / 0) (#162)
    by Teresa on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:54:50 PM EST
    PA not voting for Kerry or Gore or Clinton.

    Parent
    He wasn't just talking about (none / 0) (#234)
    by lilburro on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:47:28 PM EST
    Republicans.  He didn't specify party at all.  The only group he was referring to were small town PA voters.  He's not talking about electoral strategy.  What he is saying is job loss has made people skeptical.  In lieu of change, people have begun to cling to guns, religion, hatred of people not like them, hatred of immigrants, and hatred of trade laws.  He ties this all only to JOB LOSS.  As if the lack of jobs was making small town Pennsylvanian into a neanderthal-esque netherworld.  

    This is about PA voters and how they will feel when they hear themselves framed this way.  It's an insulting framing.  

    It would also be insulting to call them the god, guns, and gays crowd in front of a group of super-rich fundraisers.  He wasn't just talking about Republicans, he wasn't talking about Democrats.  He made it sound like everyone in a small town in Pennsylvania has these "problems."  Regardless of the fact that many of these people vote Democrat and have real issues and real problems, beyond "anti-trade sentiment."  Problems like lack of healthcare, underfunded education, etc.


    Parent

    Maybe where you live (none / 0) (#284)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:04:40 PM EST
    but in the heartland -- western Penn and the Midwest, as Obama singled out -- a lot of Dems believe in God, even if they're not among those who make it the most churchgoing part of the country.  And it's the Dems who have guns because hunting is a way of life as well -- and often a way to put food on the table for a winter, which Republicans don't need to do.

    And we're bowlers, and he already blew that with us, even before this.  That one, we could let go -- but added to these comments, it's over for him.

    You really don't understand the heartland.  Go google up the data on every button Obama pushed the wrong way with this comment, and learn up on a fourth of the country -- a fourth of the voters.  That's who he insulted.

    And another thing about us?  We don't forget.   There are grudges in towns here that go back generations.  But we have our fun with outsiders -- so I'm betting that I'll see his comments on bumper-stickers within a week here.

    Parent

    I hope Obama (none / 0) (#133)
    by Seth90212 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:45:34 PM EST
    does not give a speech on this non-issue.

    How many Democratic (none / 0) (#178)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:04:37 PM EST
    presidential candidates do you know who condescend on voters in an upcoming primary by saying that people turn to religion and guns and anti-immigration because of bitterness.

    I know only one.

    Obama.

    He screwed up.  Accept it.

    It looks like... (none / 0) (#197)
    by mike in dc on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:13:34 PM EST
    ...what he MEANT to say was directed at the line of argument advanced by Tom Frank's "What's the Matter with Kansas?"--that conservatives get working class whites to vote against their economic interests by focusing them on cultural issues like religion, guns, and illegal immigration--and unite that point with their disappointment with wave after wave of politicians who promise them economic and social renewal but fail to deliver, making them bitter in terms of mistrusting the possibility of real socioeconomic change(as promised by him), and voting instead on those aforementioned cultural issues.  

    I'm a bit skeptical that this was some freudian slip revealing a former community activist's true condescending attitude towards the working class.

    Could we, just one time (none / 0) (#216)
    by badger on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:24:18 PM EST
    discuss what Obama actually said and not "What Obama really meant"?

    I understand he lacks communication skills, but would appreciate that rather than others speculating about what he really meant, he would learn to say that the first time.

    Thank you.

    Parent

    what obama really meant, (5.00 / 1) (#245)
    by Arcadianwind on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:18:00 PM EST
    is that he is the one bitter and frustrated. And he is just not honest enough or articulate enough to come out and say it, so he projects it onto "average poor white people."

    Parent
    This is exactly what an urban activist (none / 0) (#285)
    by Cream City on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:08:35 PM EST
    would say.  It's exactly what I have heard many Chicagoans say about the rest of the Midwest, western Pennsylvania, etc.

    He doesn't get anything about the heartland more than forty miles from the Loop.  It has been clear to me before, but now it is clear to others with this comment.  That's all.

    Parent

    So you admit Obama is not transcendent? (none / 0) (#218)
    by davnee on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:25:24 PM EST
    If he can't win the working class dem base and he can't win the R's or Indies who love God and guns then who exactly is going to vote for him in November?  Enlighten me please.  He can't win with just latte sippers who are too smart for God and guns and AA's.  There are only so many of them in the population.  So where are all the other voters going to come from?

    Speaking of clueless and in need of education (none / 0) (#231)
    by xspowr on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:33:33 PM EST
    Here's the TalkLeft chattering policy, yet again for those who need a refresher:

    TalkLeft  will limit commenters to four comments a day if, in its sole discretion, the commenter is a "chatterer," loosely defined as one who  both  holds opposing views from those expressed by TalkLeft and:

    Posts numerous times a day with the intent of dominating, re-directing or hijacking the thread; or

    Posts numerous times a day and insults or calls other commenters names or repeatedly makes the same point with the effect of annoying other commenters. (emphasis added)




    I've see the two responses--and both seem to be (none / 0) (#247)
    by jawbone on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:19:48 PM EST
    attempts to divert attention from what he said about rural PA.

    I'm not so sure either succeeds. Some here say they feel he succeeded, but I don't see it.

    "...People are fed up; they're angry and they're frustrated and they're bitter and they want to see a change in Washington and that's why I'm running for President of the United States of America."

    Here he says what people in all economic and geographic areas are feeling--but his remarks were about rural and small town PA. A diversion.

    But it may work--we'll see soon enough.


    the more I read it the more I (none / 0) (#264)
    by TheRefugee on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:00:25 PM EST
    realize that Obama might be the most condescending jerk...ever.

    This statement: And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

    proves this:  Dear rich donor people, it isn't Middle America's fault that they are racist, prejudicial, gun-toting bible thumping rednecks...but I, Barack Obama, will led them out of their pit by ...."  He doesn't explain the end game...I assume he is going to bring jobs to the areas of the country that have lost jobs by....well I don't know how he'll do that anymore than he does...But the point is that if the good people of America just gives him a chance he will rid the country of poverty which, in turn, will give the poor unedumacated rednecks the prosperity to not be prejudiced, to let loose their guns, to not lean on the church for validation or solace.

    "Dumb poor people everywhere, hear my call, I will save you from yourselves."

    Obama's most recent gaffe (none / 0) (#268)
    by facta non verba on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:15:07 PM EST
    reminds me of one from early in the campaign season from July 2007 when speaking to a crowd of Iowa farmers, Obama complained about the price of arugula by asking his audience if they had been to a Whole Foods lately and checked out the price of arugula. There aren't any Whole Foods stores in Iowa, the nearest is probably the one in Minneapolis. But that's not even the point, of all agricultural products whose cost has risen, he picks a bitter herb that is so closely associated with yuppies, arugula?

    Oops there's that word again, bitter. . . perhaps eating all that arugula has made Obama a bit bitter.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/obamas-down-on-the-farm/

    Of course he said people are bitter (none / 0) (#274)
    by ChrisO on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:27:33 PM EST
    there's nothing wrong with that. The party out of power always says the voters are unhappy. It's the way he described how they react to their unhappiness. There's a reason blue collar voters are going for Hillary. They are focused on bread and butter issues, not on changing the "tone" in Washington. When Obama tells them they're "clinging" to religion and guns, they know exactly what he means. The fact that he "forgives" them for their clinging really doesn't make it better. I don't think a lot of these voters will be swayed by some pretty follow-up rhetoric.

    What I'm curious about is why no one has mentioned God, Guns & Gays. Apparently it's some kind of magic spell that makes everything alright.

    Thread Closed, New One (none / 0) (#279)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:34:19 PM EST
    is here.

    Small town response (none / 0) (#282)
    by SKY on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:46:42 PM EST
    I'm from a small town in middle America, and I know EXACTLY what Obama meant by his comments.  No one has to "explain it" to my tender little ears.  And Obama needn't try to  "say it in a different way" to make me feel better.  Surprise!  Most working class people are very intelligent with lots of common sense. I think they'll catch on too.  Unfortunately, most of your pundits on TV aren't quite so bright--I believe Jack Cafferty brought up an Al Qaeda reference while discussing the screw-up, and a pollster said he didn't think it would have that great of an impact.  Personally, I don't think they have a clue what the rest of America thinks, which is why the pundits and pollsters are continually wrong on almost every election night.  But unlike them, blue collar workers have to be competent and skilled at their jobs, otherwise, they'll LOSE it!!!!