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The So-Called Liberal Media

Blogometer cites Right Wing blogger Matt Lewis on the so-called Liberal Media:

A close friend of mine (who also happens to be a liberal) is now a frequent [Townhall.com] reader. Why? She's supporting Hillary, and for the first time ever, she and I see eye to eye on things like the liberal media. She has always viewed herself as a liberal, but now she is seeing first-hand just how quixotic and dangerous the Obama supporters are."

This is bad reasoning. Being pro-Obama as the Media is does not make the Media liberal. The Media shares the Wingnut hatred of Bill and Hillary Clinton. The Media is not ideological. They are not conservative or liberal. They are merely biased and incompetent.

There is no evidence that Barack Obama is more liberal (or progressive if you prefer) than Hillary Clinton. There is not a dime's worth of difference on the issues (other than health care) between them and it is undeniable that Obama is the High Broder Unity Schtick candidate. I have said it often, there is nothing more unfathomable to me than the notion that Barack Obama is the Great Progressive Hope.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Mostly, the media is just unprofessional (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Exeter on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:27:14 PM EST
    They act like a gaggle of immature highschool kids trying to decide who can sit at the popular kids table.

    I said yesterday (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by madamab on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:29:09 PM EST
    that if HRC won by double digits, the media would start turning back to their first love, John McCain. They only pretended to love Obama because they think he is the weaker candidate against McCain.

    It's already happening.

    The media punditry is a group of high-school Heathers who shill for their corporate masters, the military-industrial complex. McCain promises more wars, and plus he caters to their giant egos by treating them like kings and queens of the Prom. That's why he is their fave.

    I agree in part only. (5.00 / 6) (#3)
    by rooge04 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:32:03 PM EST
    Not the idea that the media is liberal. That's hogwash. But the idea that I AM seeing more eye-to-eye with certain Republicans. Watching FOX news last night I found myself agreeing with the wing nuts. Not because of their wingnuttery, but because they seem to be the only ones in the media not wanting to marry and have babies with Obama. They don't have a horse in the race just yet so they were actually being fair! It was shocking.  

    Who would have thought? (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Leisa on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:50:07 PM EST
    You might like a video about that very idea here... ;)  I definitely got a chuckle when I saw it.

    And you are right, it is not a horse race yet.  Who knows how it will turn out?

    I think the media has always been controlled by $$$ from special interest groups and corporations... we just need to know who is pulling the puppet strings for each outlet so we can avoid being manipulated.  Thank goodness we have various sources for the "news".

    Parent

    thanks for the image (none / 0) (#57)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:07:56 PM EST
    of Tweety suckling baby pigs on his many teets.

    Parent
    Don't go soft on us now (none / 0) (#7)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:34:53 PM EST
    They haven't asked to bear Obama's babies, but there's little else to recommend them when comes to substance!

    Parent
    Oh my goodness! (none / 0) (#25)
    by rooge04 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:45:18 PM EST
    Never! I would never ever trust them. EVER. But the idea that the whole rest of the media is SO unfair to Clinton where by virtue of just being equally critical of both on Fox they come off like they support her. It's insanity.

    Parent
    The only label the news media deserves (5.00 / 0) (#4)
    by magisterludi on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:32:50 PM EST
    is "ratings-driven".

    disagree (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:41:43 PM EST
    remember msnbc fired Donahue when we was the highest rated show (or near highest rated). So it isn't just ratings. There some of what the parent corp wants. But there is something else that smacks of high school clique behavior that's quite strange.

    Parent
    but didn't NBC fire Donohue (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:57:59 PM EST
    because he was questioning GE's war?
    The corporate owned media's "decisions" are based on profit - and they're always looking for a "new shiny thang" to promote. Like Obama.


    Parent
    They did. (none / 0) (#73)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:52:29 PM EST
    The interesting thing about the ratings race is that for years now the media has been going into an evermore narrow band of political thought - generally towards Fox News conservatism - totally ignoring all of the viewers who were not conservatives which made no sense from a ratings perspective.  It was stupid.  They were fighting for the same viewers when nearly 50% of the country was being served by no one.  So it is obvious that ratings and revenue weren't that important to their corporate masters for some time at least.  I think the only reason that any of them have allowed more left views on their airwaves actually has more to do with the fact that they were all starting to lose so much credibility that the power of these news organizations as corporate mouthpieces was seriously being undermined.  A sizeable number of people finally see Fox News for what it is now.  Murdoch continues to expand his empire, but his business channel for instance has about three people watching it at the moment and they all probably work for Newscorpse.  The Wall Street Journal, I believe, will eventually fall behind too because while powerful people often support political manipulation, they are less sure about market manipulation - the present woes on Wall Street mostly generated from lies, distortions and obsfucations are going to make Murdoch's once docile and accepting audience hostil and skeptical imo.  Liars need a willing audience and that audience has shrunk in the past two years.  I hope the trend holds.

    Parent
    Which is odd ... (none / 0) (#16)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:40:34 PM EST
    because no one watches TV news.  The ratings for both cable and network news are abysmal.

     

    Parent

    Abysmal ratings (none / 0) (#26)
    by cannondaddy on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:45:19 PM EST
    doesn't mean no one is watching, just less.  They are fighting for the scraps.

    Parent
    True ... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:00:41 PM EST
    But when the third rerun of Spongebob gets quadruple your ratings, you must be doing something wrong.

    Parent
    unfathomable (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:34:10 PM EST
    indeed.
    I dont even think he is a progressive.

    So what do you think he is? (none / 0) (#84)
    by Faust on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:28:20 PM EST
    A Shadow (none / 0) (#90)
    by Regency on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:24:55 PM EST
    Someone posing as a progressive, an impostor.

    Parent
    Right (none / 0) (#92)
    by Faust on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:46:36 PM EST
    I got that part, what's behind the mask?

    Parent
    Liberal Bias (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Buckeye on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:35:29 PM EST
    Large parts of the main stream media is biased to the left.  They execrate Hillary, in part, because she voted for the Iraq war.  That is a big reason why they are so biased against Hillary - Obama is seen as anti-war (nevermind his votes are identical to Clinton's once he actually had a vote).  The media has been truely aweful in this primary.

    makes no sense (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:43:33 PM EST
    since the media was not only for the Iraq war but beat the drums to a deafening roar. No, the media is in no way liberal. I'm not sure what they are exactly, but they're not that.

    Parent
    The are corporate (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by cawaltz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:50:10 PM EST
    There point is to geneate advertising dollars. It all boils down to the bottom line.

    It should be no surprise that the two last contenders were folk that could pump billions of dollars into their coffers.

    Parent

    Fundraising? (none / 0) (#74)
    by Buckeye on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 04:01:23 PM EST
    Then why did they like McCain?  He is hardly a fundraising machine.  They like him because he is the most liberal repub.

    Parent
    Advertising (none / 0) (#76)
    by Buckeye on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 04:04:08 PM EST
    I meant an advertising machine for the media, not fundraising.

    Parent
    McCain is the GOP nominee (none / 0) (#89)
    by cawaltz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:23:38 PM EST
    If they manage to get him into office they escape regulation and any increases in taxes. Corporations love the GOP and have increased profit lines(largely at the expense of their workers)under GOP rule.

    Parent
    Anyone... (none / 0) (#83)
    by Thanin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:09:45 PM EST
    that sings about bombing Iran is not liberal.  Besides, havent you ever heard of the name Lincoln Chafee?

    Parent
    I meant (none / 0) (#95)
    by Buckeye on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 09:06:24 PM EST
    McCain was the most liberal candidate in the Repub primary (Ron Paul was anti-war but had no shot).

    Lincoln is now an independent, no longer a repub.  McCain is not liberal, but he is closer to the center than other repubs.

    Parent

    I have to question bias based on the war (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:46:53 PM EST
    They were not bias to GW in 04 and they are not bias to McCain and he says it might be 100 years. I think they are bias because they are not for the Clintons. They were not Bill's friend. They laughed at Hillary because Congress, a Democratic Congress at the time, would not let her succeed with her health plan. They forget how good his Admin was to the country and they forget that most of their fame came during his Admin. I remember everyone was watching stocks and CNBC. When you watched Walter Cronkite, it was not about ego, glitzy backgrounds, or hype. It was about news. These guys are for ratings and hearing their own voice. They really take themselves too seriously. They really are about the movie NETWORK.

    Parent
    And bimbos (none / 0) (#77)
    by Buckeye on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 04:09:17 PM EST
    Fox News replaced hard hitting news men and women with hot women that could not make it in the modeling or acting industry (Guilfoyle for example).

    Parent
    If you remember CNN early on (none / 0) (#88)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:14:05 PM EST
    Looks did not matter. The women were women, not Barbie Dolls.

    Parent
    Let's take cable news ... (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:36:10 PM EST
    if they were liberal what issues would they be covering outside the election?

    The list would be long.  

    But it certainly would not include car chases, Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, missing co-eds, plural marriage stories, explosions, babies down wells, and so on.

    Or this "progressive story" currently front paging MSNBC's website.

    I hear CNN has a new (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Lahdee on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:55:31 PM EST
    slogan, "CNN, We profit so you don't have to."

    Parent
    Stop it already (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by cawaltz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:36:24 PM EST
    There ARE differences. The differeces are minute but they are there. Instead of pretending they aren't there can we PLEASE admit the difference is not limited to choosing between a white woman and a black male (which feeds right into what the media wants?) The one area where there will be no difference though will be the treatment they get from the media following the primary results.

    I preferred Edwards because of his policy and his philosophy. When I weighed the remaining two I felt Hillary was closer philosophically and policy wise to what I'd like to see attempted in the next four years. That said, I'll, in all likelihood vote for Obama because he is a better option then McCain, not because he is the SAME a the other two candidates that I chose before him.

    I agree BO and Clinton are not the same (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Prabhata on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:47:24 PM EST
    The details speak for themselves.  Health Care, the economy (regulations), loans to college students, veterans are among the many differences that demonstrate Hillary's approach to solving the mess we're in.  Ideologically, I think they are close, but I find BO more conservative.

    Parent
    That's fine (none / 0) (#81)
    by Claw on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 04:45:27 PM EST
    But what scares me are people who say they'll only vote for the dem nominee if it's her/him.  I've wasted quite a bit of time arguing about what a crazy mistake that would be considering John McCain, ideologically, isn't even playing the same political sport.  It really will be four more years of Bush if we elect him...only he's a war hero and thus automatically above any criticism.

    Parent
    Once the CD clears things will change. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Faust on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:33:36 PM EST
    Once the nominee is chosen people will stop with that nonsense. Don't bother arguing with people about it. Just try to keep your head clear and pray for a good ending to the primary.

    And by good I mean one that is decisive. Not sure if that's possible but I like to dream a little dream.

    Parent

    Ratings - watch the firestorm brew (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by scribe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:37:33 PM EST
    over Rezko, now that The Heathers have decided they don't like Obama.  From today's Chicago Tribune coverage:

    More bombshells were lobbed in the Antoin "Tony" Rezko trial even before the jury was seated this morning and they involved a purported attempt to pull strings with the White House to fire U.S. Atty. Patrick Fitzgerald. In a hearing before court began, prosecutors said they hoped to call Ali Ata, the former Blagojevich administration official who pleaded guilty to corruption yesterday, to the stand.

    Assistant U.S. Atty. Carrie Hamilton said she believed Ata would testify to conversations Ata had with his political patron, Rezko, about working to pull strings to kill the criminal investigation into Rezko and others when it was in its early stages in 2004.

    "[Ata] had conversations with Mr. Rezko about the fact that Mr. Kjellander was working with Karl Rove to have Mr. Fitzgerald removed," Hamilton told U.S. District Judge Amy St. Eve.

    In that inimitable, professional emptywheel way, emptywheel ties a lot more together, here.

    Now, people, can we all start moving on to topics more interesting than rehashing which counties in Pennsylvania broke the way they did?

    oh my - (none / 0) (#46)
    by Josey on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:00:07 PM EST
    Rezko connected to the US attorney scandal??
    Is Josh Marshall on it yet?
    ;>


    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by scribe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:03:55 PM EST
    He had the Trib post, plus some background, before lunchtime.

    Parent
    News Media (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:38:36 PM EST
    simply does not do the job that  news media is supposed to do.

    Opinions when stated as and expressed as opinions are fine. But the pundidiot class insists on infesting informational areas with their drivel and that's not acceptable.

    If I want advice or opinion I'd read Dear Abby. I don't and I don't.

    Just Joe Friday us and we are capable of making up our own minds.

    I don't want a liberal or a conservative News Media. I want one that does it's damn job and informs.

    I found this site (none / 0) (#59)
    by Leisa on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:09:57 PM EST
    I am still learning about it, it has both sides of the fence writing for it and it appears to have more substance on many topics than most of our papers.  

    I am familiar Edwin Black, who is involved.  He has written thought provoking books and essays as an investigative journalist.

    Check it out for yourself.

    Here is a little about who they say they are.

    Our stories will consistently cut to the edge and then some. We eschew politics left or right, Democratic or Republican, although we will air the views of both. Cutting Edge investigations are free of advertiser influence reflecting the best traditional of ethical, independent journalism. We do not take a point of view except to dogged determination to speak truth to power, comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

    I would like feedback from others on your perceptions of this site.  I suspect everything I read and hear these days and informed discussion is usually helpful.  Thanks!

    Parent

    I have always thought of (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by athyrio on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:38:57 PM EST
    Obama being almost to the right of the maverick McCain before McCain drank the Bush Koolaide....Obama scares me to death on many issues that are near and dear to me such as health care....He seems to have no strong sense of anything and just bends to whomever benefits him...Not good in a leader...

    You're right in a lot of ways (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by scribe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:57:34 PM EST
    I've long considered Obama a cipher.  

    Clinton, we knew where she stands.  Ditto Edwards.  Which is why the media had to destroy their candidacies.  Edwards, by ignoring him.  Clinton, by smearing.

    Obama, they can pour anything they want into him and sell it.  Then, if they are disappointed in his paying them off, either before or after taking office (assuming he wins, of course) they can turn on him the way they did with Clinton.

    If he wins, expect a major crisis within a month or two of Obama beginning his presidency, just like they did with Zoe Baird and Somalia and Gays in the Military with Clinton.  Just to remind him who the real boss is.

    And, athyrio - long time no see your posts.  It's good to catch up.  Last time, y'all were coming into calving season, IIRC.  Did that go ok?

    Parent

    Oh- the long time no see (none / 0) (#56)
    by scribe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:06:41 PM EST
    was mostly a function of me, avoiding reading too many Pa. primary posts, etc., b/c (As I said weeks ago), the real function of all that storm and fury was to move the occasional marginal voter from one column into another.
    So much effort for so little change....

    Parent
    Meh (none / 0) (#60)
    by cawaltz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:11:08 PM EST
    I personally think the strategy was that he be an unknown quantity a la right out of the GOP strategy book. I think the vagueness is purposeful but it need not mean that he would govern as they do. That said, I personaly find it problematic to elect someone and THEN find out their leadership style and their plans on how we move forward. The strategy has worked well for the GOP in the past though Then again. if you are a GOP member the expectation is that other than the area of natioal security that less is more. They don't want their leaders thinking of new fangled regulations or ways to spend their money even if it might benefit society as a whole.

    Parent
    why do you hate (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Turkana on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:39:17 PM EST
    religion?

    A stroll through memory lane (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:42:03 PM EST
    Obama's maiden diary
    at The Blog That Must Not Be Named, on Sept. 30, 2005, provoked a lot of skeptical and even angry commentary on how Obama was too easy on Democrats who voted to confirm John Roberts.

    He posted a follow-up diary a few weeks later:

    I completely agree that the Democrats need to present and fight for a clearly stated set of core convictions, and that we have not done so as effectively as we need to over the past several election cycles.  We can insist on being principled about the ends we are trying to achieve (e.g. educational opportunity and basic health care for all Americans, honest and accountable government, etc.), without sacrificing our commitment to open debate, intellectual honesty, and civility.  I think its the right thing to do and I also think it will help us win.

    I also agree that it is the job of Democratic elected officials to help shape public opinion, and not just respond passively to opinion thats been aggressively shaped by the Republicans PR machinery.  I am simply suggesting, based on my experience, that people will respond to a powerfully progressive agenda when its couched in optimism, pragmatism and our shared American ideals.

    It seems that the "powerfully progressive agenda ... couched in optimism, pragmatism and our shared American beliefs" has been reduced to just the "couch."

    And he never posted there again (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:54:22 PM EST
    Not that I know of.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#48)
    by litigatormom on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:00:52 PM EST
    I did a diaries by search, those are the only two that came up.

    To be fair, he got a lot of guff. I remember thinking that the community was being too hard on him.  

    The wheels on the bus go round and round...

    Parent

    A lot of the lefty blogs (none / 0) (#50)
    by pie on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:03:19 PM EST
    criticized him for appearing with the anti-gay minister and his crisis comments about Social Security, saying he was playing right into repubs' hands.

    Ah, good times.

    Parent

    That's a funny thing too. (none / 0) (#69)
    by inclusiveheart on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:32:28 PM EST
    He has this unbelievably dedicated fan club and none of them have noticed that he hasn't bothered to say a word to them even once during this whole campaign.

    I find it incredibly weird both that they would accept that and that he would avoid them.

    Parent

    Because that would make him one of his pack (none / 0) (#87)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:11:38 PM EST
    And since he really is not a Progressive, he does not want to acknowledge them and their help. If he did that, he would be beholding to them. This way, they can do his dirty work and he had nothing to do with it. His hands are clean. You know, like he was never present in the church when Wright said those things.

    Parent
    The myth of the liberal media (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:43:38 PM EST
    I've never believed in it.  I tuned out years ago, but after Katrina, especially Anderson Cooper's reporting, I began to have hope that the media would start doing its job and speak truth to power.

    Silly me!

    I do find that many news shows with a conservative slant are more balanced in their coverage. After switching around between MSNBC, CNN and Fox, I settled on Fox for last night's election coverage.  

    The only MSNBC show I watch these days is Morning Joe.  I've become quite fond of Joe Scarborough - how can I not like a news anchor who declares himself to be "in the tank" for Hillary and urges her to keep fighting?  Today, he offered to run as  her VP and she accepted.  :)

    Blech (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by cawaltz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:47:41 PM EST
    Once you go into a court of law and say that you have the right to NOT give people all the information, you lose any chance of calling yourselves a news station in my opinion. I use the TV for entertainment purposes only.

    Parent
    liberal media (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by DJ on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 04:41:27 PM EST
    The definition of liberal is broad-minded.  The Obama media is not broad-minded.  I am actually watching Fox when I can stand it because sometimes, just sometimes I hear another view.

    Parent
    there is a faction of the media (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:48:26 PM EST
    who are liberal self appointed intellectual elitists and they have a lot of control over the media storyline.  There are writers at the NY Times who are so liberal/elitist that they hated Gore in 2000 just because he was Clinton's VP.
    These people are idiots of the sort who had orgasms over Obama's race speech which people feel they have to think of as "great" and equal to JFK, MLK, Lincoln and Gandhi all wrapped up in one.

    I agree that neither the media in total or Obama are progressive.  but there is that faction and they have always hated the Clintons because the Clintons are not of them and do not reinforce their feelings that they are the most important on the left.


    the Media liberal (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Lahdee on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:49:37 PM EST
    Available as a whipping boy at time any place. Toss out "the Media liberal" and moron America is likely to believe anything you say following.

    Interesting, "The Media is not ideological. They are not conservative or liberal. They are merely biased and incompetent." The media can be ideological, they can have a political bias, after all they are corporate organs intended to foster the corporate good, but I gotta agree that they are indeed incompetent. Is that willful? Maybe.

    The incompetence is a given (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:01:10 PM EST
    Obama Fears (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:04:35 PM EST
    The issue that has bothered me from the start with Obama has been his change agenda and bringing in fresh air to Washington. That is exactly what Bush used in 1999 and I don't see how that's worked too well! We definitely had change but to what?

    Another point I'm concerned with is that he'll let all these crooks off. We can't allow the actions of this administration to become the norm. They have to be prosecuted.

    It reminds me of (none / 0) (#68)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:31:10 PM EST
    Reagan's "Morning in America" - I'm old enough to remember how that worked out!

    Parent
    The DLC (none / 0) (#5)
    by pie on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:33:52 PM EST
    is the big, bad monster, and I see you already addressed his relationship with it in an earlier post.

    I also subscribe to the kewl kidz theory (none / 0) (#11)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:36:45 PM EST
    They go for whoever is perceived as popular - which, in typical schoolyard fashion, is whoever is bullying the ostracized.  It has been cool to kick Hillary around since she turned up in her granny glasses.  Obama, what ever his other faults, is very cool.  McCain is cool, plus he lets them hang out with him.  He will always be at the top of the totem pole.

    I was speaking of the media above (none / 0) (#17)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:41:21 PM EST
    but after thinking about it, most of it may apply to the "liberal" blogosphere also, except for the last part about McCain. They embraced Kerry to some extent as their kind of uncool uncle, but Obama they totally dig. They'll never line up behind Hillary in the same way.  The best she can hope for if she is nominated is a neutral truce with them.

    And BTD is right, it has nothing to do with policy, it is all personality driven.

    Parent

    It didn't have to be (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by cawaltz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:44:33 PM EST
    and we do no favors when we refer to each of the candidates as the same. If they are all the same what is left to vote on but identity?

    Parent
    I personally do not think they are the same (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:50:13 PM EST
    But the policy differences are not what is driving the progressive bloggers, with the exception of Hillary's Iraq vote, for which there is no Obama corollary besides his speech given when no one was listening and he did not have to vote.

    Parent
    He was running for senate (none / 0) (#37)
    by CST on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:52:48 PM EST
    People were listening.  He didn't have a vote, but I wish he did.

    Parent
    No, he was in the state senate (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:56:01 PM EST
    not running for national Senate yet. When he was running for national senate, he said he understood why Kerry and Edwards voted the way they did.

    Parent
    He was not running for the US Senate (none / 0) (#55)
    by wasabi on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:06:28 PM EST
    Obama was not running for the US Senate when he made that 2002 speech.  He was running unopposed for the Illinois Senate seat as the incumbent in a very liberal Senate district.

    The 2002 speech was never recorded.  He had to re-create parts of the speech to put into an ad he was running in this primary.

    Parent

    The 2002 speech (none / 0) (#61)
    by Kathy on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:13:36 PM EST
    has to be recorded somewhere.  I wonder if anyone has really listened to it again to make sure he said what he says he said, as compared to what he re-recorded in the commercials...

    Parent
    When it means nothing (none / 0) (#63)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:18:42 PM EST
    I'm from Illinois and his speech didn't make any impact here with the media or the public. Our other senator, Durbin was also opposed to the war and he got slammed for it. At the time the American public was still looking for blood. over 70% of the country thought Bush's grand scheme was just fine with them. And Hilary, being fron NY would have been drawn and quartered if she condemed it.

    Parent
    It's circular (none / 0) (#44)
    by cawaltz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:59:25 PM EST
    Progressive bloggers early on wrote the candidate off as the same. They weren't. By saying to people they were all the same they made this into an identity politics game. In the end if it isn't about issues then it ends up being decided on likability or identity politics. Oddly, we always seem to win when you polling on issues and yet we always seem to fall into the trap of voting for the guy or girl we think most Americans will find likable(and lose because the other side picks a more affable dolt).

    Parent
    He's also cool (none / 0) (#18)
    by cawaltz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:41:34 PM EST
    because the boss likes him all his promises of all the neat-o tax cuts and promises of no regulation. Anyone that is under the illusion that a corporation is't concerned with how th person's policy will affect their bottom line needs to remind themselves we are a capitalist society.

    Parent
    Also true (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:46:05 PM EST
    That's why the press is drawn to all Republcians as a starting baseline.  They begin with the assumption that tax cuts and no regs are the best possible state of affairs, and go from there.

    Parent
    They are not different because that is part of it (none / 0) (#38)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:52:58 PM EST
    If I was part of the Obama team right from the beginning, I would have wanted Bill neutralized. SC, done. I would have wanted to be as close to any position Hillary had in order to blur the line of difference. Done. I would have wanted to use the race card when needed depending on what state. Done. I would not commit myself commpletely on any issue by straddling the fence.Done. And when pouting, I would have eaten my waffle.Done Done Done. The liberal media is not liberal.
    They are merely biased and incompetent.


    Parent
    no argument here (none / 0) (#45)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:59:42 PM EST
    I don't think they are miles apart, except in national level experience. Just a little different in some areas of policy.

    There I was bing all serious and yy ou had to mention the waffles.  I can't keep a straight face around that word anymore.  

    Parent

    For whatever reason (none / 0) (#23)
    by Manuel on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:44:00 PM EST
    (not based on policies as far as I can tell) Obama has become the preferred candidate of the progressive voters in the party.  Hillary, OTOH, is carrying the moderates and conservatives.  You'd think having a candidate as progressive as Hillary become the preferred candidate of conservative democrats would be a cause for joy among progressives.  Instead we see silly, divisive attacks.  Obamaniacs should just chill and let the process play out.  They must be very insecure indeed to get as worked up as they are.

    Preferred candidate of the Progressives (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by wasabi on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:24:04 PM EST
    I'd like to call myself a "progressive", but after this primary, I think I'll go back to being a liberal.  I'm going to pretend in my liberal universe that mysogyny is not as prevalent as it is in the progressive universe.

    I'm pretty far left and neither Obama or Clinton measure up to my standards.  However, since I need to pick one, Clinton stands out on experince to get the job done.  Also, I'm not in the wing of the party that sees a lack of bipartisanship to be the cause of this country's ills.  

    So many people around the US are finally ready for some serious changes, and it seems quite a mistake to me to give up the meme that Republican policies have been the problem.  I need a fighter.

    Parent

    Bipartisanship (none / 0) (#70)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:33:51 PM EST
    I haven't heard how Obama is going to achieve this unity. The wedge issues such as gay rights, woman's rights and the role of government have been pounded by the Republican's for years. Their idea of bipartisanship is for all of us to agree with them. I don't see that changing. Everytime they send out a mailer to fight abortion or the gays, they get the donations flowing. It's all about the buck.

    Parent
    Profits (none / 0) (#31)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 02:47:44 PM EST
    I don't understand the supposed liberal media logic with all of this. I used to listen to Air America and I watched Olberman everyday. Finally there was an outlet that questioned government. The voting difference so far on Hilary and Obama is less than 500,000 even without MI or FL. From a business stand point why would you deliberately alienate half of your market? The same with Move On. Org. It just doesn't make sense to me.There's still more than enough ammo to continue to bring government incompetance to our attention without turning on ourselves.

    If there were a liberal media... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Marco21 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:03:57 PM EST
    Keith Olbermann would have been fired last night for his Fox-like coverage on Msnbc.

    The moment Hillary finished her speech, Keith asked why she wasn't more conciliatory toward Obama's supporters. Wtf, Keith? She just won a ten-point spread in a heated contest. You can't give Hillary her moment - or a moment for the matter? Plus, her speech was wonderful, which Keith had to admit after Tweety made a point of it. Then he continued to just insult her campaign over and over again in deference to his hero's, Barack, culminating with comparing her to Bush stealing Florida if she wins on Super Delegates.

    F*UCK YOU KEITH.  FU!!!

    Did anyone else watch this? I am sure someone had to mention it already, and I apologize if my rant is a rehash. Sadly, been too busy to post at all on this celebratory day.


    I didn't see it b/c (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by stillife on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:30:08 PM EST
    I can't stand to watch KO, but I'm not surprised.  In fact, Clinton was conciliatory towards Obama, much more than he was to her in his "concession" speech in which he barely mentioned her.  

    KO has become a joke - he's a mirror-image of his media nemesis, Bill O'Reilly.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#94)
    by Steve M on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:40:27 PM EST
    He may not have mentioned Hillary by name very much, but the entire thing was one long diatribe against Hillary.  "We have a choice in this election... we can choose to be the party that will say anything and do anything to get elected, we can be the party with no principles that governs by poll-testing, or we can choose a better way."  But remember, everyone knows it's HILLARY who's running the negative campaign!

    Parent
    Sorry about the cuss slipping through. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Marco21 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:05:35 PM EST
    I am a crappy typist/proofreader.

    Also royally disappointed in MSNBC.

    Parent

    I tuned in (none / 0) (#58)
    by wasabi on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:09:19 PM EST
    I tuned in to watch Olberman merely for the entertainment value.  He was not a happy camper last night.  It seems that many of the pundits lack self-awareness.

    Parent
    I thought he'd a least... (none / 0) (#64)
    by Marco21 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:21:50 PM EST
    show a little graciousness in allowing her a night without whining and attacks. I was wrong. It stuns me that he'd be allowed to anchor their coverage after that performance.

    Parent
    If This Proves Anything (none / 0) (#62)
    by flashman on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:14:25 PM EST
    it proves that the media is biased to the conservative effect.  I was thinking about this since listening to the awful things being said about Hillary last night.  Lookit; the negative images of Hillary Clinton were borne in the conservative media in the 90's.  All the stories about how blindly ambitious the Clinton's are, how they will "do and say anything" to win, how they will destroy the party to serve their own self-interest, etc, etc, etc...  The hateful speech towards the Clintons spread from Fox News and conservative AM radio, through the rest of the media, like a virus.  When Tweety said last night that the Clinton family believes the Democrat party is theirs to do anything that want with it, where do you think that came from?  When Rachael Maddow said that Hillary Clinton, after her answer to the question of Obama's perceived "Muslim" religion, she said the Hillary NEVER says ANYTHING without a purpose ( suggesting that Hillary deliberately intended to keep doubt in people's minds about Obama's religion ), where do you think that came from?  These people don't know Hillary, aren't friends with her and they aren't psychic.  They are regurgitating what they've been hearing from conservative media outlets for two decades.  It is truly disgraceful they think of theirselves as 'analysts' and commentators.  They're media puppets parroting old conservative talking points, nothing more.

    Speaking for myself only, (none / 0) (#67)
    by mattt on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:31:00 PM EST
    the hope Obama inspires is that he might be better able to rally support for a progressive agenda, whereas Hillary's negative image and political style make her more likely to be stymied by the GOP and establishment inertia.  Agreed there is little to choose for a progressive between their platforms.

    The Fourth Estate has become (none / 0) (#71)
    by angie on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:37:22 PM EST
    the Ministry of Truth.  I've been saying this for a while now, and have even written letters to every single news channel asking them to explain to me when the change occurred (was I sleeping?), but I haven't received one response.  I wonder if they even know what the "Ministry of Truth" is.

    Obama's claim on being a progressive is false.... (none / 0) (#72)
    by SunnyLC on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 03:39:26 PM EST
    Check out my research on David L. Boren, in particular, part II of this series which details how we lost our best chance of a real energy policy in 1993 because of Boren and his Republican buddies....

    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/

    Policy differences and the media (none / 0) (#75)
    by MojaveWolf on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 04:02:43 PM EST
    While agreeing with you that the whole notion of Obama as a strong progressive candidate is bizarre and not rooted in his policies or how he discusses issues, I would politely disagree with

    There is not a dime's worth of difference on the issues (other than health care) between them,

    and I think many of the differences, as with the differences in their health care positions, are the sort that would tend to make corporate media interests more fond of his candidacy.

    Obama's preferred alternative energy sources to fossil fuels are nuclear power and liquid coal, both of which would continue to keep the energy market centralized--no one is going to be digging uranium or coal mines in their yards.

    Hillary's has come out much more heavily in favor of solar energy -- this doesn't have to be decentralized and to a great extent it won't be, but it can be--even with existing technology, I already know of fully solar and solar/wind powered homes (I'm in a windy desert area, granted, but there are large stores in Ireland that boast of getting more than 50% of their energy from solar).  

    Even aside from there being (at a guess) probably less profit over time to be made from making and installing solar panels and/or small wind turbines, these businesses would by their nature lend themselves to a wide number of smaller competitors as opposed to a few corporate megaliths.  

    Also, while Obama hasn't come out in favor of social security privatization, one of his top advisors on the subject is an advocate of this, and it could be that a lot of the people who own stock in the media companies own stock in the companies best poised to take advantage if SS is privatized (this is purely guesswork on my part, I have done no research on this).

    And hoping it's not too off-topic to mention this since your comment was primarily about the media and this wouldn't seem to have any direct relationship, but Hillary has much the more progressive position on withdrawing private mercenary companies from Iraq (Obama's failure to commit to a position is a position, as far as I'm concerned).  How this has failed to influence all the anti-war types on the Obama bandwagon, I don't know.  

    Biased (none / 0) (#80)
    by AnninCA on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 04:44:57 PM EST
    Yes.  I would also agree with incompetent.  Liberal?  No.

    The press was lazy when it came to uncovering Obama's past.  Lazy about the health care differences.  Lazy about the differences, really, on the economic plans.  

    The press has been responsible for reducing the campaign to snipe remarks.  I listen to both candidates and hear a great deal of depth.  The press interpretation?  Not so much.

    The good news is that nobody pays attention anymore.  Which is why the press is nearly irrelevant.

    Obama, no, he can't (none / 0) (#82)
    by yourkidding on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:01:49 PM EST
    Obama was going to be the great answer to the racial problem in the USA. We were going to break with the tradition of only nominating & voting for WHITE middle-aged MEN & instead we would radically vote for a....half-white man!!!
    Breathtaking.

    Biased because... (none / 0) (#86)
    by Dadler on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:56:25 PM EST
    ...the mainstream media, and its "stars", are now a part of the same monied class they are supposed to be objectively reporting on.  

    I hope you eat your words on Obama cuz (none / 0) (#91)
    by seabos84 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:29:51 PM EST
    I won't mind eating mine.

    My aunt if furious about the treatment Hillary has gotten - the aunt who explained to me in '68 or '70, when I was 8 or 10, why girls should be allowed to take shop class.

    I can't stand Hillary, the Blue Dogs, the Bush Dogs, the DLC, the fascist defined fake middle / independent ... AND

    I only despise them a hair less than the fascists.  I figure fascists will be fascists, BUT, people on my side who sell me out are real pieces of crap.

    I told my aunt I'm for Obama cuz I figure, after getting sold out by electable Bill Clinton, that Mr. New Hope has about a .1% chance of NOT turning into a sell out, and hillary has none.

    If I were to score my feeling about the fascists, hillary and barack

    fascists -100.
    hillary -99.95
    barack -99.90

    So, I do hope you and I are eating words on barack ... imagine any version of a real progressive?

    rmm.


    ideology, bias, competence (none / 0) (#93)
    by pluege on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 08:17:01 PM EST
    The Media is not ideological. They are not conservative or liberal. They are merely biased and incompetent.

    US corporate media is ideological and biased. It is anything but incompetent.

    The media's thoroughly demonstrable consistency in its smearing of democrats and ignoring or distorting of democratic positions, while ignoring republican perniciousness, hypocrisy, and dishonesty and manufacturing false republican down homeyness demonstrates:

    • ideology
    • bias
    • competence.