home

Required Reading

For those who do not wonder why sexism and misogyny are not an outright breach of community and societal norms. For those to whom the sexism in this campaign was irrelevant. For everyone.

Katha Pollit:

Clinton's run has put to rest the myth that we are living in a postfeminist wonderland in which all that stands in women's path is women themselves. Like a magnet--was it the pantsuit?--Clinton drew out the nation's misogyny in all its jeering glory and put it where we could all get a good look at it. . . . Vats of sexist nastiness splattered across the Comments section of hundreds of blogs and websites. . . . As for the . . . pundits, thank you, Hillary, for showing us the snickering belittling of women that passes for media commentary . . .
Judith Warner:

It’s a cultural moment that Andrew Stephen, writing with an outsider’s eye for the British magazine the New Statesman last month, characterized as a time of “gloating, unshackled sexism of the ugliest kind.” A moment in which things like the formation of a Hillary-bashing political action group, “Citizens United Not Timid,” a “South Park” episode featuring a nuclear weapon hidden in Clinton’s vagina, and Internet sales of a Hillary Clinton nutcracker with shark-like teeth between her legs, passed largely without mainstream media notice, largely, perhaps, because some of the key gatekeepers of mainstream opinion were so busy coming up with various iterations of the nutcracker theme themselves. (Tucker Carlson on Hillary: “When she comes on television, I involuntarily cross my legs.” For a good cry, watch this incredible montage from the Women’s Media Center.)

It is not irrelevant. It is not acceptable. It must be an "outright breach of community and societal norms."

It must be fought by anyone who calls themselves a progressive and a Democrat. Be they a politician, pundit, blogger or citizen. It is a big deal.

Speaking for me only.

Comments closed

< About That Meeting | Four More Years? Just Say No! >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Bravo BTD (5.00 / 7) (#1)
    by Lahdee on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:58:26 AM EST
    There is no excuse for it.
    None.
    Ever.

    All the repubs gotta do is keep... (5.00 / 9) (#2)
    by cosbo on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:01:13 AM EST
    women's anger alive and have McCain choose a moderate woman VP and he'll romp the GE.

    Obama & the DNC gifted the repugs.

    Just had a long, somewhat heated discussion... (5.00 / 7) (#3)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:01:32 AM EST
    ...with my daughter about this very thing. Think I will send her this post.

    Last night was trying to explain this (5.00 / 19) (#9)
    by litigatormom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:12:11 AM EST
    to a clueless friend of mine, and was beginning to lose my cool. My 18 year old daughter was there and intervened, explaining "Obama accepted all the sexism in the media like a Christmas gift instead of returning to sender."  Pretty smart, my baby is.

    Parent
    That's a good analogy (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by andgarden on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:18:07 AM EST
    And actually applies to a lot of the unscrupulous "gifts" he got during this campaign.

    Parent
    worse than that... (5.00 / 10) (#21)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:21:21 AM EST
    Obama's supporters accepted it, ran with it and excused it with their claims that it wasn't "sexism", it was "Hillaryism" and that it wouldn'y have happened to a different woman, but that Hillary somehow had EARNED it and deserved it.

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 7) (#50)
    by abfabdem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:43:13 AM EST
    Your daughter expressed it brilliantly. Kudos to her! (But very sorry it is still like this such that she even had to make such a statement.  When I starteed a career 30 years ago I was sure things would be different for my daughters by the time they were starting out--and my illusions that the Democratic Party was somehow nobler than the Republicans has been shattered forever.)

    Parent
    What is amazing to me is the obama (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:57:09 AM EST
    followers who KNOW and acknowledge his lack of morals and ethics, and basically not doing the right thing, are still going to vote for him.  To me, that makes us just as bad as the republicans.

    Parent
    a TPM reading friend asked about all this (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:45:56 AM EST
    saying he just didn't get what women are all upset about. I was speechless. We need a site that documents all of these things for such occasions.

    Parent
    As BTD mentioned yesterday {?} (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by Klio on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:29:14 PM EST
    Melissa has been the unofficial documenter of the sexism watch.  She may be beyond #104 by now, but here's a good start for you ....

    Parent
    This is one of the main reasons why I (5.00 / 16) (#4)
    by MMW on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:04:50 AM EST
    cannot and will not support Obama and the Democratic Party. They did not fight it. They used it and contributed to it.

    I think they have awakened a sleeping giantess. (5.00 / 13) (#6)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:06:24 AM EST
    I hope so n/t (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:47:17 AM EST
    Yep (5.00 / 12) (#34)
    by chrisvee on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:28:20 AM EST
    The Obama campaign and the party stood by while this stuff went down and in some cases either encouraged it or diminished our concerns about it.  I never understood why Obama didn't make a forthright statement declaring that sort of talk had no place in the public discourse.  He would have created so much good will that he could have later leveraged. But I suspect his campaign didn't want to risk his 'media darling capital' on that issue and they figured women would 'come home' to support him anyway because of Roe v. Wade.

    But I won't easily forget how many people stood silently by and did nothing while Hillary Clinton was subjected to offense after offense.  If this can be done to arguably the most powerful woman in the country, what does that mean for the rest of us?  All I have is my vote and my integrity. I'm not giving either up easily. Something even more important to me than the (admittedly) grave issues confronting us today has been awoken by this primary. I'm not sure how the Obama campaign fixes this. I guess time will tell if I'm alone or one among many.

    BTD, thanks for your tireless advocacy on this issue. I may not agree with your choice of candidate but I certainly appreciate your integrity.

    Parent

    You are among many,many, many (5.00 / 8) (#37)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:31:54 AM EST
    Look for us.

    Parent
    Yes. We are here. (5.00 / 5) (#46)
    by MMW on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:39:11 AM EST
    But he did make it clear that Michelle (5.00 / 4) (#51)
    by abfabdem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:44:58 AM EST
    was off limits.  What a contrast when it started to hit too close to home.  So we know he was capable of such a statement, he just didn't choose to make one regarding Hillary.

    Parent
    Im not sure that (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:57:32 AM EST
    Obama's putting Michelle off limits has much to do with being against sexism on Obama's part. It's more paternalistic. Taking care of his wife and family. I think that anything negative said about Michelle would get the same response.

    Parent
    I don't agree (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by standingup on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:42:30 PM EST
    I admit I am quite cynical. The man who was willing to use his grandmother, who is no longer able to defend her own character, to save his own political arss was going on the offensive for what future damage might come to him.  The way he treated his grandmother spoke volumes about the man's character and not in a positive manner.  

    Parent
    Paternalism, yes. (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by tree on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:53:42 PM EST
    Since his comment was in response to Republican ads featuring what Michelle said during campaign appearances, he is in effect saying that no one can criticize her for her campaign statements. He wants different rules for her than he wants for Bill Clinton. Criticism of campaign statements made by any spouse  are fair game, unless you are playing the paternalism game.

    Parent
    yes and to paraphrase MO (none / 0) (#190)
    by sleepingdogs on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:31:59 PM EST
    "If you can't buy your own house, you shouldn't try to buy the white hose."

    Parent
    Heh. I've got news for him (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by oldpro on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:16:12 PM EST
    Michelle is NOT 'off limits.'  If Barack thinks so, I wonder how he plans to enforce that 'rule.'

    Her time is just beginning.  The full force of the venom of Hillary-hate sexism coupled with virulent racism in this country is about to be explored and 'the revolution' WILL be televised, delivered to your home every day by the Democratic Party.

    It won't be pretty.

    Don't forget to thank the DNC when they write to ask for your money...


    Parent

    agreed (none / 0) (#106)
    by sleepingdogs on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:22:23 PM EST
    Michelle will be as off-limits as was Hillary's spouse...  I think we and the media should be able to judge and parse every last utterance and gesture of hers.  

    Parent
    They participated, excused it, stood idley by (5.00 / 7) (#77)
    by Ellie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:02:40 PM EST
    This is simply too much to stash under a rug.

    Would everyone be efficiently be talking past this -- all while keeping a glinting eye on 18 million votes -- if that infamous campaign souvenir nutcracker had been a souvenir lawn jockey?

    That was barely a fraction of the literally hundreds of materials and moments of egregious anti-Hillar bigotry that got quietly snickering Dems and TeamObama elbow-nudging the roaring media these last few months.

    I want to hear party and "winner" explicitly address those. And by address I mean not an umpteenth stentorian Best Speech Ever where Obama looks down his nose and berates a cliche ridden teleprompter.

    It'll take more than today's "sensitive" astroturf paTrolls to "heal" this.

    Even a small gesture, like not deploying the psycho-caca pecking astro-pests, would be a sign that they took HRC supporters seriously.

    But nope, they're here again today with their usual irritating, patronizing psycho-caca off the Turfing Points Menu.

    Parent

    Gloria Steinem supports Obama now (none / 0) (#59)
    by magster on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:48:59 AM EST
    There is absolutely no reason (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:03:09 PM EST
    for Steinem to switch to Obama other than she wants his money.

    She diminishes her own movement.  

    Parent

    Please listen to what you are saying (2.00 / 1) (#115)
    by TedL on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:32:00 PM EST
    You are attacking Steinem's character and motives based on zero evidence.

    Is that how it goes?  If someone dares question you it can only be because they're acting in bad faith?

    Parent

    If you think that's what it is (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:57:49 PM EST
    then I can't even have the discussion with you.

    Parent
    Sometimes when you are (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:55:18 PM EST
    at the forefront of a movement, the movement passes you by. Steinem is either too tired or no longer listening. She's like the great grandmother at Thanksgiving.  She has a special place at the table because of her position in the family, gets affection, but doesn't necessarily command much attention. When is the last time Steinem actually did anything? The feminist movement went from being a very visible force to being each woman fighting her battles on her own for too many years. How many significant things have happened since Title IX and Roe v. Wade? Is the name of any other feminist activist since Gloria's time recognizable to the general public?

    Parent
    It wasn't too long ago (none / 0) (#178)
    by magster on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:17:21 PM EST
    and? (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by sleepingdogs on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:36:59 PM EST
    ...you thought maybe Gloria would endorse McCain???

    Parent
    No. (5.00 / 5) (#198)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:52:55 PM EST
    But I do think that after the malign acceptance of sexism by the Obama campaign, Steinem had no reason to endorse ANYONE.

    Remember she's not a politician.  She doesn't HAVE to endorse.  If she did, she did so for some other reason than Obama's great efforts toward women's rights! (LOL).  Had to be cashola.

    Parent

    One could say (5.00 / 12) (#8)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:07:42 AM EST
    really, that it was violence. As with domestic violence, there in includes any abuse whether verbal, emotional or sexual is intent.

    And there could be secondary trauma to children who were victims of domestic violence hearing a woman called names and abusive language used to describe and belittle her.

    Also secondary is the mirroring that can be internalized by children that it's okay to say and use those terms toward women.

    It reminds me (5.00 / 8) (#10)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:14:14 AM EST
    of when RRR told jokes about the poor and black - the Welfare Queens (sexist too) and then for years it was OK to tell ethnic and insulting jokes again.

    And it reminds me of Anita Hill who was trashed for telling her story - and in my 'progressive' office it became OK to tell harassment jokes and I was told to STFU because the poor guys didn't know what was acceptable behavior anymore.

    Parent

    Ditto re dealing with male detritus (5.00 / 9) (#33)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:27:22 AM EST
    of the Hill-Thomas hearings.  I came up for a crucial promotion immediately after that, as did other women, and we all were hit with backlash from angry, threatened men dominating promotional committees.  (In my case, I appealed and eventually won, but that initial turndown on my record -- and the cost of time and energy in the battle -- affected my record ever since.)

    I also have said, repeatedly, that I am not sanguine about this reprise, and I fully expect that we will see in the workplace and beyond a sanctioning, yet again, of men (and some threatened and co-opted women, as usual) repeating the behaviors they have witnessed by media and other opinion leaders.

    Parent

    that's why this election is extra painful (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:51:36 AM EST
    is because it was an election that would either open the gates to more sexism, or close to gate to less.

    Parent
    My Anita Hill story is a bit (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:11:40 PM EST
    different from most. We used to listen to the radio in the barn so we were aware of what was going on at the hearings, from the news. One of the other grooms asked me with a cheeky grin what I would do if someone handed me a Coke with a pubic hair on it. I smiled back at him and said, "I would make him drink it." That was the end of that subject. Heh.

    Parent
    Let's see, did Obama not (5.00 / 12) (#11)
    by litigatormom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:15:50 AM EST
    hear Clinton compared to Glenn Close in "Fatal Attraction," a stalker, a bunny boiler, the girlfriend who wouldn't accept the inevitable end, the scold, the nag, the shrew, shrill, Lady Macbeth?  Did all that escape his notice?  Did he ever denounce it, or even mildly criticize it?

    Parent
    Yup, I'm sure he knew (5.00 / 8) (#17)
    by andgarden on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:20:02 AM EST
    and as BTD says, there was only "malign acceptance."

    Parent
    Buffenbarger (1.00 / 2) (#121)
    by TedL on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:37:12 PM EST
    How many times did Clinton surrogates use nasty attacks on Obama, and how many times did she tell them to shut up?

    Please have a look at what Buffenbarger said about Obama and his supporters -- while Hillary was standing right there.

    "Give me a break! I've got news for all the latte-drinking, Prius- driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies crowding in to hear him speak! This guy won't last a round against the Republican attack machine."

    If Karl Rove had said it about Democratic voters, we'd all be furious.  But Hillary's supporters cheered.

    My point is not that he's a saint and she's the devil.  It's that if your test for a candidate is that they must tell their supporters to shut up whenever they make an offensive comment then both candidates failed.

    Because Barack Obama is not a muslim... as far as I know.

    Parent

    Excuse me sweetie, we are discussing (5.00 / 3) (#133)
    by nycstray on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:45:34 PM EST
    sexism, the media and Hillary, not Obama . . .

    just sayin'.

    Parent

    This is your example of a smear, of (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by MMW on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:46:44 PM EST
    character assasination?

    Parent
    Oh the humanity! (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by pie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:57:41 PM EST
    For your failure to recognize and deal with the legitimate concerns of a large portion of the voters in this primary, you deserve everything you get in the general.  What a disappointment supposed dems have become.  What an eye-opener this primary has been.

    Keep ignoring the elephant in the room and playing the victim.  That is not going to work for you or Obama from here on out.

    Parent

    double standard much? (none / 0) (#171)
    by TedL on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:07:38 PM EST
    I was responding to the specific charge that Obama had an obligation to call out his supporters.

    If that's right, why didn't Hillary have the same obligation?

    Parent

    For public comments? (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by pie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:16:54 PM EST
    People who made controversial remarks left her campaign.  He escaped unscathed as no one was able to say boo without hearing screams of racism.  

    Blog comments are not what we're discussing here.  We discussing the lack of leadership by Obama to address public comments made by his supporters.

    If you can't understand the difference, there's no use wasting any more time.

    As I said, good luck.  You're going to need it.  It'll be interesting watching you try to throw old white men under the bus.

    Parent

    Well suppose (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 02:03:03 PM EST
    the media talked about the bulge in his pants (re Hillary's  cleavage) the lightness of his skin, the curls on his head.  You would scream racist, racist.

    Suppose the pundits were asking when will the B quit?

    Suppose they said that his daughters were pimping for him by appearing on stage and that he was plain evil. Suppose the media said Michelle "looks old", has "large calves" is a w**? Suppose Obama was called over and over again "ignorant", "selfish", "ugly", "old", "groveling", "low classed or no class" by the media day after day.

    This campaign was sickening and grown men, and women that want to be like them, were totally disgusting and really could give a damn about anything or anyone by themselves.

    Media Whores!

    Parent

    You say it well. Yes -- I went through (5.00 / 15) (#14)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:17:36 AM EST
    years of verbal abuse, before it was recognized as a form of domestic violence.  When I figured it out, it made me a sadder but wiser and stronger grrrl.

    But it all came back to me in this campaign, witnessing it done again to all women, since we were obliged to watch it being to one woman representing all of us.  And yes, I have seen its impact on children.  Those names we saw and heard not only sanctioned by authority figures bu   coming from figures seen as authorities, media, will be heard in many a classroom and on many a playground for at least another generation to come.

    No, Mr. Obama, your daughters will not be the beneficiaries of Clinton's campaign as much as they will be the victims of your campaign.  There may be a kind of "wild justice" in that (thank you, Francis Bacon), but I do not take any vengeful victory from that.  Because it affects my daughter, too -- and my son, and all of us, once again deprived of the potential for growth and greatness from the majority of this country.

    Parent

    So TRUE (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:46:01 AM EST
    My experience with verbal abuse, peppered with a physical exclamation mark now and then, certainly contributed to my gut reaction to the Obama campaign.

    It is a really bad testiment to who this candidate is, and it brings us back to Michelle's own words, "if you can't keep your own house in order, how can you keep the Whitehouse in order?"

    He couldn't have surfaced those feelings in so many people if there was no justification for it.

    Parent

    Homicidal violence (5.00 / 6) (#15)
    by Foxx on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:17:55 AM EST
    the image of her gruesome death was often evoked.

    Parent
    Many might forget or just don't (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by zfran on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:16:08 AM EST
    know that women used to be "chattel" when they married. Couldn't own land, couldn't do anything without their husband's permission. Some men, still have that attitude. It's this, men go to the cave, women go to the well, mentality thing. Even Michelle Obama is, I believe, the strong decision maker in that family. You can see it and hear it.Strong are "attractive" to the male ego because men want that challenge to conquer them?

    And the first truly equitable (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:21:13 AM EST
    marital property rights law in any state went into effect only in . . . 1986.  No, that is not a typo.

    This country's history for women is horrible, and we only began to rectify it before the backlash of the conservative revolution so well documented by Faludi.  I do not see any "hope," from what I've seen in this campaign, that a liberal revolution would be any better for women.  So far, it's worse.

    Parent

    Probably because younger women (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by zfran on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:22:57 AM EST
    don't realize what has already been accomplished by the older generation of women. But, they will learn because it's all going away, all of it.

    Parent
    The reality is that (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by frankly0 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:41:31 PM EST
    younger women don't notice the glass ceiling, because they are too junior to have bumped up against it. They are still in the lower echelon roles where there's ample room for women -- indeed, women are especially valued there, because they make the overall numbers for a corporation or a university look good.

    One of the most obvious things in any university faculty in the sciences and engineering, for example, is the relatively good number of women at the junior levels, and the paucity of them at the most senior levels. Things seem great for women -- until they get denied tenure, or promotion to full professor.

    Parent

    The tragic thing (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by frankly0 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:57:43 PM EST
    for many of these women is that it's not at all unlikely that throughout their entire career they will never see a woman President.

    And there is only one most powerful person in the world, with the unmatchable symbolism that entails.

    This year, it might have been a woman.

    Many powerful people saw to it that it wasn't.

    Parent

    The ability to buy a house without (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by hairspray on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:25:21 AM EST
    a husband is not so long ago. It didn't matter if you have a professional degree and made a good salary even in the 1970s.  I know, because a loan officer told me that when it happened to me.

    Parent
    What motivated my mother to be (5.00 / 4) (#102)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:20:58 PM EST
    a charter member of NOW was when the credit cards came out, BankAmericard was the first. And they required women to have their husbands cosign for a credit card. And the credit card was in his name, the woman could have Mrs. put in front of it on her card, but it was all in his name. Given that my mother's income was higher than my father's at that time, she was justifiably enraged at the idea that she need his permission to get a credit card. We had been overseas for years and she hadn't had the experience of living in the US as a married woman. It came as a huge shock. And she, and NOW, went out and did something about it. Someone should tell the young ladies that diss the old time feminists that if they hadn't fought the battle, the young ladies would have to have Daddy's or hubby's signature to get a credit card. Or a debit card. Let them think about that for their fifteen minute attention span.

    Parent
    in the mid-90s (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by pukemoana on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:01:11 PM EST
    fellow grad student went to take money out of the joint chequing account she held with her husband, and the teller wouldn't process the withdrawal because there was no evidence of permission from the husband.  i'd just recently arrived in the usa and wondered what in he!! i'd hit . . .

    Parent
    That is standard for joint checking (none / 0) (#193)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:43:44 PM EST
    even when the other person isn't the husband. My mother had a joint account with her away-from-home kids when the kids were in college, she would put in money and the designated kid would take it out. Made money transfer very easy. Back then they didn't have Telechek and businesses in college towns would only take local checks. So, we would deposit a check from the joint account into our local bank accounts. My mother was very amused when the bank told her that she had to have our permission to close the account. She got it, no problem. But that just shows you that  joint accounts need to have all the signatories sign off, even if they aren't hubby.

    Parent
    My mother, too -- and she led the fight (5.00 / 3) (#161)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:01:17 PM EST
    against the credit card companies in my state and helped to win the laws against them doing this.  Not that laws on the books are laws enforced; see below.

    If your mother is still with you (mine is not), please thank her for me and my daughter. :-)

    Parent

    And into the '90s, when I was (5.00 / 4) (#158)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:59:22 PM EST
    turned down, twice, by loan officers who just couldn't give good reasons.  The third one, who came through for me, told me the other guys were just not allowed to say why they were acting illegally.

    And in the '80s, upon separating toward divorce and trying to get a credit card in my own name, I was turned down by several companies, despite the fact that I always had worked (in a professional career, too), that all the checks paying our bills had been in my name, too -- and I signed them, as I was better at managing finances -- etc., etc.

    And it still is happening, I know, from women I know.  The young Obama women supporters will find out soon enough.  And you know what?  Tough -- I climbed back to solvency and self-sufficiency, so I can help my daughter avoid these obstacles.    I'm fighting now for the rights of women heading toward retirement. :-)

    Parent

    Racism, here we come. (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by yourkidding on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:16:18 AM EST
      If it's ok to mock, belittle, & be unspeakably vulgar about a woman, what is to stop the equally ugly face of race-hatred to burst forth during the coming election?
      Who among the pundits, who had such a good time demonstrating their contempt of a strong successful woman, are going to be able to call a halt to racial mockery - the locker room at  MSNBC?, the 'liberals' at Air America?, or maybe those bulwarks of tolerance at Daily Kos?

    I agree (4.85 / 7) (#24)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:22:35 AM EST
    But I don't think it will happen. Sexism is much more acceptable to progressives than racism.

    Parent
    And where were Pollitt and Warner months ago? (5.00 / 12) (#19)
    by Foxx on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:20:08 AM EST
    And how are we going to fight this?

    It is going to take another militant women's movement

    Exactly (5.00 / 9) (#28)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:24:18 AM EST
    I'm very disappointed in Pollitt, in particular, for waiting this out instead of screaming during the whole thing.

    In fact, now that I think about it, where have all the feminist leaders been during all this - there's been a few tepid outcries but nothing compared to what would have happened if racism had occurred on this level.

    Parent

    Give the great Gloria Steinem (5.00 / 9) (#42)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:34:38 AM EST
    her due; she called it out immediately.  And just as immediate was the media backlash that blamed Clinton for it and belittled all women who believed their eyes seeing it.

    To be charitable, that may have meant that feminists felt it wise to stay low-profile for Clinton's sake.  Of course, there were some who spoke up; I am so proud of my former prof Ellen Carol DuBois for organizing the massive petition of women scholars who spoke up for Clinton and about what they saw.  But you know how much media attention that got.

    And I will be quite uncharitable, every chance I get, toward the petition of women scholars that got much more media attention, of course, when they came out for Obama.  I work with one, and I await the chance. . . .  (What can I say, I'm good at long-held grudges; I'm Irish.:-)

    Parent

    Gloria Steinem (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:08:38 PM EST
    endorsed Obama yesterday.  I'm not sure of her agenda, but I don't think it's about the women's movement anymore.

    Parent
    Gloria (none / 0) (#116)
    by oldpro on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:32:25 PM EST
    got religion and

    got married.

    Hard to say which held sway in her 'evilution'...maybe some toxic combination...

    Parent

    Well, the mighty have fallen (none / 0) (#131)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:44:42 PM EST
    so much, and now this.  Sigh.

    I'll still give her points for speaking out, early on.  But she is political as h*ll for the women's movement and must see points again in this move.

    I don't.  Not that I'll put the once-great Gloria under my bus just yet . . . but I'm banishing her from the good seats, and she goes into the annals of women whose agendas mystify me. :-)

    Parent

    Where was Katha? (5.00 / 10) (#62)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:50:09 AM EST
    Why, she was supporting Obama vigorously, like the rest of the folks at The Nation.

    I've heard more calling out of the misogynistic treatment of Hillary from GOP men and women than from liberal Obama supporters.

    Parent

    My thoughts exactly (5.00 / 7) (#111)
    by angie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:25:14 PM EST
    In fact, I asked Ms. Pollitt that question, via email:

    Very nice article in "The Nation." However, I have to ask, where were you when all of this vile sexism was occurring during the primary? Where were your articles like this one then?  I am afraid you are like many other women who stood by silently and watched it happen, and only have the courage to speak out now because you are sure it doesn't really matter as your preferred candidate (Obama) seems to have secured the nomination. I make this assumption because you fail to mention the fact that Sen. Obama himself and other elected Democrats actively participated in this behavior (from Obama: "claws come out" "when she's feeling down she attacks;" from Michelle Obama: "If you can't run your own house, you can't run the White House;" from Rep. Cohen (D-TN): "Hillary is like Glenn Closes' character in "Fatal Attraction:" she should have stayed in the bath tub.")  I also make this assumption because among the reasons Hillary "lost" you don't mention the RBC giving Sen. Obama all the MI uncommitted delegates as well as 4 of Sen. Clinton's to ensure she would not cut his lead in pleaded delegates to 85, which would have been the outcome if the RBC had decided to be democratic and count all the votes. I also make this assumption because you are under the mistaken impression that it is up to Sen. Clinton to convince her supporters to "unify" with the Party. No, no, no - we have minds of our own and do not just play "follow the leader."  It is squarely on Sen. Obama's shoulders to convince us that he is worthy of our votes - to convince us that despite his thin record and his words that pro-choicers "don't understand the wrenching moral decision" an abortion is, that he is pro-choice.  He also has to convince us that despite his sexist behavior toward Sen. Clinton he is pro-women. Given that he and/or his advocates have stated on more then one occasion that he "doesn't need us to win" and that he will "not spend too much time wooing Clinton supporters," I have my doubts how he will fare in that.

    I always vote my conscience. For the last 20 years, that has meant voting Democrat, although many times that was because of the other choice.  Now, I am afraid my conscience will not allow me to support the Democrats or their chosen candidate. That has nothing to do with Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton - that has to do with the principles I value as a woman and as an American.


    Parent
    Wow. Just wow. (5.00 / 4) (#124)
    by Lena on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:39:19 PM EST
    You deserve a place in the pundit class (except that you make sense and seem to realize what many of the voters are thinking, so scratch that).

    I used to respect the Nation and Katha Pollitt. But it seems she couldn't allow herself to bring up the issue of sexism until after the coast was clear, Obama had won, and the big boys in the media were ready to allow the girls a little time to vent before jumping on the Obama bandwagon.

    It isn't just the sexism, it's the fact that Obama is hardly a progressive, so why did they endorse him? I don't think they endorsed Gore in 2000, and he was far more progressive than Obama has ever been. It's weird.

    Parent

    Oh, I've seen it on TV before. (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:22:07 AM EST
    Yes, they noticed.  And they enjoyed it.

    A Keannie Moos segment? (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:23:09 AM EST
    Disgusting.

    Jeanne (none / 0) (#32)
    by andgarden on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:26:04 AM EST
    And yeah.

    Parent
    And ... (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by lilburro on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:23:09 AM EST
    Obama said nothing during the campaign about the media coverage.  It was as plain as day.  Why didn't he say anything?  Was it not his business to defend her (despite our constant pressure for Democrats to be better than Republicans, to defend each other, esp. from media coverage)?  I think it's a notable silence that has contributed to the current divide between Clinton and Obama supporters.  

    And... (1.00 / 2) (#126)
    by TedL on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:41:00 PM EST
    Hillary's defense of Obama during the Wright smear and the "he's a muslim" smears and the flag-lapel-pin smears?

    Oh yes, I remember.  "He's not a muslim... as far as I know."

    Just a ringing defense.  

    Parent

    Ah (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by cmugirl on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:51:25 PM EST
    We're having computer problems here at work, so we thought it must be a full moon, but it's not.  So I don't have a good reason for the technical difficulties at work, nor for the trolls here who spout old and tired cliches.

    "He's not a muslim... as far as I know."

    Funny how you leave out like, the whole paragraph between those two phrases.

    Seen any billy goats gruff crossing your bridge?

    Parent

    you are kidding me, right? (5.00 / 2) (#187)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:25:42 PM EST
    she was supposed to defend him on Rev Wright?  A controversy cause by Obama himself?

    and, I suppose he should have defended her on "sniper fire" right?

    Parent

    Yep, it must be fought (5.00 / 8) (#29)
    by angie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:25:00 AM EST
    and, imo, the most effective way to fight it is with my vote -- then just maybe next time Democrats in general will call the msm out on this vile conduct & other Democrats (like Rep. Cohen, for example) will not actively engage in it themselves.

    Well stated (4.90 / 11) (#35)
    by Lena on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:28:27 AM EST
    That is exactly my reasoning.

    I will not unite with Obama supporters who don't recognize the traumatic injury that his campaign did to women's rights. (and it didn't have to be that way had he just stood up, even once, to protest the blatant sexism).

    And I will not reward the DNC for its failure to value me or my vote.

    Parent

    I spent last eveining unsubscribing to (5.00 / 7) (#48)
    by hairspray on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:39:58 AM EST
    all of the Democratic organizations that have been dunning me for money over the last year.  It felt good.

    Parent
    A man invented it (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by andgarden on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:25:42 AM EST
    Shocking.

    I ought to sue him for stealing (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:25:29 PM EST
    my party trick..LOL Back in the day, when I was galloping, I had a knee grip that really did crack walnuts. It was my party trick, so to speak. I could take two walnuts, put them between my knees and crack them into smithereens. Scared the guys witless, but it kept me on a bucking horse. Heh. So, any lawyers think I have a case?? Naturally, any settlement would all go to Hillary, or her designated charity.

    Parent
    it is this and the pro-Obama (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:31:52 AM EST
    websites and the comments on those web sites that have fueled the division.  And, IMO, the only way for unity to even be possible is for Obama himself to REBUKE the likes of Atrios, DailyKos, HuffPo, AmericaBlog etc for the kind of disgusting banter they allowed and encouraged on their web sites.

    If he can't or won't do that, then his image is nothing byt tarnished as far as I can see.  His supporters can say I shouldn't blame Obama fior the kind of things that were posted online, but I certainly can.  How is it any different than if those postings were put in writing and sent to individual home mailboxes in the name of Obama supporters?  Obaam would be FORCED to condemn them in taht situation.  Why is it accepted just because it is on a blog?  Everyone one of those blogs endorsed Obama.  Once they did that, they are an official part of his campaign as far as I'm concerned

    Sins of omission are just as much sins (5.00 / 6) (#49)
    by Cream City on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:41:54 AM EST
    as those of commission, so I was taught by the good women of the ancient sisterhood: nuns.  That teaching has helped me recognize what a psychologist called "petty evil," the incremental degradation of the moral center of many -- and it is what I see in the media, their candidate, his followers, his party.  But it's not mine anymore, as the party even fell prey to dangers of petty evil, as it moved to sins of commission, too.  

    And I have seen signs throughout this campaign that suggest sins of commission by the candidate and followers that may not be exposed for some years, until the evidence of dirty tricks emerges, a la Watergate. . . .

    Parent

    Interesting, isn't it (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:54:08 AM EST
    What large group has Hillary had to denounce and reject?

    Obama effectively denounced TUCC, women, working class, those poor clinging people, and now he should, but won't, denounce the places where his supporters gather, and what those people say.

    His own web site comment area is rampant with the same over-the-top threatening personalities that support him.


    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by chrisvee on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:55:31 AM EST
    If I were Obama,  I would immediately make it known that I had a zero tolerance policy -- and enforce it everywhere including the blogosphere. Call out the MSM on their crap. Let the communications arm call a blogger conference to send the message. Stop tolerating it, stop excusing it, stop accepting it. Then I'd come up with something substantive to show I had a long term commitment to the issue. Sure, he's going to take some heat for the hypocritical 180 degree turn, but not as much as he'll take later especially when it gets turned on Michelle (which is surely will).

    But he won't. They are more afraid of the media than the voters.

    Parent

    When it gets turned on Michelle (5.00 / 4) (#110)
    by nycstray on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:24:56 PM EST
    I have a funny feeling the racism cries will start, not sexism.

    Parent
    My wild guess (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by chrisvee on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:46:08 PM EST
    is that the media darling status will extend to Michelle until after the inauguration. In fact, I think she may get set up as the 'anti-Hillary' by the MSM; she'll be used as an example of the behaviors a 'good' woman exhibits vs. the 'bad' woman (Hillary), reinforcing the notion that it wasn't about all women it was just about Hillary.

    MSNBC is using Obama to become the Dem version of Fox in order to increase ratings. Until that strategy fails, they will protect the Obamas.

    Parent

    I've said before (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:01:40 PM EST
    since politics is a spectator sport for me now, since I have no dog in the fight.

    It will be interesting to see not IF, but HOW Axelrove will turn McCain into a racist, given that one of his children is Bangladeshi.

    It'll happen, just will be tricky, so will be an interesting challenge.

    Parent

    Why would him condemning now matter (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by RalphB on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:02:40 PM EST
    so much?  If he had really cared about it, he would have done it before.  Anything now will be only a hypocritical attempt to get votes for himself.

    Doing it before would have earned him respect.  I don't see why doing it now should make a difference.

    Parent

    it would matter to me (none / 0) (#196)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:49:25 PM EST
    because it would show them that they are not going to benefit from their behavior.  That would stop that kind of thing in the future.

    Parent
    What about Hillaryis44? (none / 0) (#128)
    by TedL on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:42:20 PM EST
    Please read the comments there and tell me there isn't a good deal of truly vile garbage.

    Do you expect Hillary to take personal responsibility for what's posted there?  If not, why is Obama responsible for comments on Kos?

    Parent

    the Pro Obama blogs and nasty anti-Hillary blogs (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:48:23 PM EST
    are much more mainstream than any blog that was spouting Obama HATE.  You don't get much more mainstream than Atrios, DailyKos, HuffPo etc

    Parent
    Most of us (none / 0) (#163)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:02:14 PM EST
    don't spend much time at nasty sites, except for the laugh.  

    Parent
    I don't spend much time there either (none / 0) (#173)
    by TedL on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:08:57 PM EST
    The point is that many people here are saying Obama had an obligation to do this or that - but they don't apply the same standard to Hillary.

    Parent
    It's amazing... (5.00 / 8) (#39)
    by NJDem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:32:40 AM EST
    didn't Obama's camp realize how much it would have helped him to speak out against this?  

    I thought for sure he would have defended the Clinton family against the Schuster comments about Chelsea, considering he is a father of daughters himself.  But nope.  What a missed opportunity...  

    Fighting (5.00 / 11) (#43)
    by chrisvee on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:35:30 AM EST
    would have involved expending some of his media darling capital especially with MSNBCObama. I guess he didn't feel like being a profile in courage.

    Parent
    Absolutely (5.00 / 4) (#60)
    by Emma on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:49:26 AM EST
    We all saw what happened to Hillary in the MSNBC debate after she criticized Shuster.

    Parent
    When you have received as many free (5.00 / 7) (#58)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:48:55 AM EST
    passes as obama has, combined with his arrogance and self-absorption, I would have to say he does not give a flying you know what.  I do believe he has a very rude awakening coming his way.

    Parent
    aaah yes, "present"....if he were to be (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:15:43 PM EST
    president, do you think anyone will notice when he votes present or pushes the wrong button?

    Parent
    His campaign seems to believe (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:21:19 PM EST
    that if they can just win the primary, the general will be much easier. They'll scream Roe, and women will fall in line. You can see it in the postings here of people who say, well, yes, the primary was bad, but think of your best interests going forward.

    Reward good behavior. Punish bad behavior. Organize, organize, organize.

    Parent

    They think the primary was bad?? (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:57:24 PM EST
    Wait until the GOP starts to unload on Obama. They will dig up and publicize every single questionable association he has ever had. And from what I have read, most of his associates are questionable. They will bring up his inflated record in the IL state senate, they will hammer home his lack of one in the Senate, and then when it comes time for debates, they will count the "uhs" and "ums" and laugh at the rest of it. Obama has so much baggage that finding a reason not to vote for him will be infinitely easier than finding one to vote for him.

    If Hillary ends up with the nomination, all the sexism is going to do is make women mad enough to vote for her even if they weren't going to, and reinforce the sexists who weren't going to vote for her anyway. She can hold her own in debates, and win, and she can talk policy in detail. The negatives are so shop-worn that people don't notice them anymore.

    If the Obama fans think the primary was bad, they are in for a real shock. I, for one, will not be standing by with a blanket and hot tea.

    Parent

    PUMA (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    is the beginning of the new organization against this election.

    People United Means Action


    Parent

    It's not over either (5.00 / 7) (#40)
    by herb the verb on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:33:46 AM EST
    Just today I listened to Minnesota Public Radio and the (of course) male guest commentator and Obama supporter got all concern troll about how sad it was for women that they didn't get a "fair chance" at a woman candidate because it was Hillary rather than somebody else.

    In other words, "any woman but this Billary woman" because unlike men, women actually are defined by their spouse.

    Don't worry though, you'll have your chance next time, sweeties.

    Isent this letter to Carla Marinucci at (5.00 / 12) (#55)
    by hairspray on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:46:56 AM EST
    the SF Chronicle today.
    Dear Carla:
    Your piece on Obama winning over the Clinton female supporters was slightly off kilter.  Your theme seemed to be that women were so invested in Hillary because they liked her and wanted a female president.  While some of that is true, certainly African Americans felt the same way about Obama, it misses an important point. The point being that the Democratic party insiders preferred  a young inexperienced opportunist for president rather than another Clinton, regardless of how qualified she was. To say that the caucus nomination process was a joke is hardly illuminating. The process was in place to begin with so there wasn't much to be done there, however, when the DNC awarded Obama all of the uncommitted Michigan delegates plus four of Hillary's we women knew for sure the "fix" was in.The superdelegates were created to stop such "games".  We know that other states were in violation of the DNC rules, yet the DNC ignored them and refused to entertain the "safe harbor" clause in the rules.  The superdelegates should have voted for the candidate with the best geographical advantages. After all,  the election was essentailly a tie, except for the delegate counts.  We "low information" women voters are well aware that Obama won most of his contests in small red states with wildly inflated delegate counts.  One need only look at Washington, Texas and Nebraska to see how unrepresentative these caucus delegate numbers were.  
    This whole nomination smacks of "favoritism" and this is one woman who is leaving the Democratic party for this fiasco.  Now the pundits are all busy telling us that the big bad bogey man will get us if we dont fall into line and vote for Obama. The Democratic party needs to learn a lesson and the time may be now.
    Anne Spanier


    Parent
    Thank you Anne/Hairspray....more of us (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:54:43 AM EST
    need to do this, as well as suggesting these lazy reporters might want to delve deeper into this matter.

    Parent
    Which female journalists (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by zfran on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:08:11 PM EST
    should look into this: Andrea Mitchell (guilty), Nora O'Donnell(guilty), Campbell Brown (guilty), Gloria Borger (guilty), and the beat goes on...

    Parent
    You are so correct....I think they have long (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:14:02 PM EST
    ago given up on being real journalists...they can go on their respective cable channels, talk out their butts, collect their checks and go home to their beautiful high-priced homes.  Hell, even Andrea's husband doesn't give a damn about anyone...look where his great advice has gotten us.

    Parent
    How many of the journalists (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by standingup on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:53:46 PM EST
    have owned up to and accepted their role for helping  Bush start the Iraq war?  I swear if we don't wake up and demand this farce of a free press we have is harming the country, we will continue to be on the losing end.

    Parent
    We also saw rampant age-ism, ... (5.00 / 9) (#41)
    by RonK Seattle on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:34:16 AM EST
    ... intellectual snobbery, regional prejudice, and smug class-conscious elitism.

    But ain't that America ...


    BTD (5.00 / 5) (#47)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:39:17 AM EST
    I am so very grateful for your giving us a forum to discuss this. It is an important conversation that the entire nation needs to have.  But you understand that it's not going to help your guy get elected?

    Right on sister .... :) (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:53:15 AM EST
    BTD (5.00 / 5) (#61)
    by sleepingdogs on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:49:38 AM EST
    Today, you speak for me also.  Thank you.  I appreciate that you continue to bring this up.   It is a conversation we need to have, but very few want to dig in.

    I appreciate your efforts.

    It *ought* (5.00 / 12) (#74)
    by Nadai on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:00:01 PM EST
    to be a breach of community and societal norms, but obviously it isn't.

    If I called, say, Idi Amin the n-word, everyone would understand instantly how wrong I was.  Because no matter how bad Amin was, I can't call him that without simultaneously calling every black person the same thing.  To use the word legitimizes the concept.

    Yet women have been trashed in gendered/sexual terms, even in the Left blogosphere/media, for years.  Ann Coulter is a transexual, Hillary Clinton is an emasculating b@llbreaker, Condi Rice is a dominatrix.  Women aren't simply ignorant, we're stupid c-nts.  We aren't simply overbearing, we're b!tches.  We're not simply agressive, we're power-hungry she-devils bent on world domination.

    And the protestation that you can't call Clinton a c-nt without simultaneously calling me a c-nt is greeted with jeers and howls of outrage.  What are you, the PC police?  What about freedom of speech?   If you don't like it, don't read it.  Maybe you should stick to the knitting blogs if you're too weak for real political discussions.  You're a sexless prude.  You're an ugly fat b!tch.  You're hysterical/overreacting/too sensitive/taking things personally/upset/too emotional.

    The one thing I hope comes out of all this filth is that women, en masse, get angry.  Really, really angry.  Heat of a thousand suns angry.  Because until we do - until the talking heads and the bloggers and the world, really, get roasted for pulling this sh!t, nothing is ever going to change.

    Standing O, Nadai (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by MMW on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:12:35 PM EST
    No surer truth than in your last paragraph.

    Parent
    truth to power! n/t (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:21:04 PM EST
    Strike? (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by oldpro on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:52:23 PM EST
    Did I hear somebody call for a strike?

    Parent
    Interesting (5.00 / 7) (#75)
    by Lena on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:00:38 PM EST
    (well, sickening too) that Obama was able to openly discuss race, to the plaudits of the media, while Clinton could never have discussed sexism. If she had talked about it, she would have been seen as being a "victim" or "playing the victim card" or whining and nagging. And when her surrogates, or some in the press, tried to do discuss it, they were roundly jeered and dismissed.

    Aside from the clear implication that society does not take sexism seriously--and the Democratic party doesn't either-- I'm not sure what else this says about the two isms.

    Wow (5.00 / 3) (#157)
    by standingup on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:59:09 PM EST
    You have a very important point about the difference in the way the press handled the racism vs. sexism.  Obama was exalted for his attempt to discuss racism while Hillary has received the opposite treatment.  

    Parent
    Katha Pollit trying to redeem herself (5.00 / 8) (#76)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:02:20 PM EST
    Katha and the rest of the feminists, fell for the fear of being racist and listened to the dominant lefty male theme.  They failed to look deeper.  She had her chance and missed it.  Like she explained in her last book Driving Lessons, she was a commie cause her boyfriends were, yet, she has no capacity for courage.  Now she assuages her guilt with this.  Well, it does not play with me.  

    She saw no significant policy differences, yet she slimes her with Bill's history.  I hold the feminists of the intelligentsia as collaborators.  

    Much as I would love to pull the lever for a woman president -- a pro-choice Democratic woman president, that is --I realized at that moment how deeply unthrilled I was by the prospect of a grim vote-by-vote fight for the 50 percent+1 majority in a campaign that would rehearse all the old, (yes, mostly bogus or exaggerated) scandals and maybe turn up some new ones too. I wasn't delighted to think success would mean four more years of Bill Clinton either, or might come at the price of downticket losses, as many red-state Democrats fear. Democrats have nominated plenty of dutiful public servants over the years -- Humphrey, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry . They have always lost (or in Gore's case, not won by enough to not lose). Obama may not be as progressive as we wish over here at The Nation-- and maybe someday we can have a serious conversation about why Edwards' economic populism, promoted for years by important voices at the magazine, was such a bust. But Obama is a candidate in a different mold.



    I Have One...... (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by michitucky on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:03:17 PM EST
    One of FEMALE co-workers (an Obama Supporter) thought is was "hilarious" and left one in my office.  I was shocked and speechless another woman would find any humor in such a vile item.

    I took it home that evening and my 11 year old daughter picked it up.  Her response..."Hillary looks beautiful in blue."  

    Every group (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by Nadai on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:11:07 PM EST
    has its bootlicking lackeys.  Unfortunately.

    But good on your daughter.  :)

    Parent

    Your daughter (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by chrisvee on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:39:00 PM EST
    is my new hero. :-)

    Parent
    Opps... (none / 0) (#82)
    by michitucky on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:04:12 PM EST
    One of my...

    I need to proofread...

    Parent

    the ugliness of progressives (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by DandyTIger on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:03:49 PM EST
    What does this say about progressives that this level of vitriol and verbal violence against women and this particular woman because of their gender was perpetrated. And what does it say about them when you tell them that this is analogous to racism and they laugh and demean and disagree. And here I mean not just the old male guard of progressives but young progressives usually male but sometimes female. What does it say about us that the group of citizens that pretend to be for civil liberties and human rights and for piece, are in fact for the opposite when it comes to the majority of citizens of this country, women.

    If the progressive movement, and the Democratic party that claims to espouse many ideals of that movement are hate filled bigots to their core towards women, then that is not a progressive movement at all. It's a hollow shell. It's a false movement, only pretending to be for the benefit of peoples rights and liberties. It is nothing more than a petty group vying for power.

    Apparently the suffrage movement has only begun. And in fact has been in limbo believing a lie that it has made progress. Perhaps that movement should restart, and find a home somewhere other than the Democratic party.

    It says they should change their name to (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:17:44 PM EST
    regressive....it's not progressive.

    Parent
    Its probably a good time to remember (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by tree on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:18:53 PM EST
    that the women's movement in the 60's started just as much from the sexism of the left as from the sexism of the right. "The  proper position of women in the movement is prone."

    Parent
    Hillaryism rather than sexism (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:13:55 PM EST
    I've heard many claims that the problem wasn't with "any woman, it's THAT woman," that other women would be treated fine.

    But think of one reasonably powerful woman in politics that wouldn't be treated like garbage by the media if she'd decided to run for president against "the one".

    I can't think of one.

    Katha Pollitt offered some (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by bjorn on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:16:00 PM EST
    interesting advice as to what Hillary can do to help her female supporters embrace Obama. It will be interesting to see if she takes the advice.  I have mixed feelings about Katha over the years and wish The Nation had published something like this earlier in the campaign.

    Why should we have to embrace Obama? (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by nycstray on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:33:58 PM EST
    Seems to me, he should be embracing us.

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#139)
    by bjorn on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:48:47 PM EST
    he needs to give a speech of his own.  I am assuming he will after Clinton endorses him.  But we shall see.

    Parent
    He'll need more than a speech (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by nycstray on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:56:03 PM EST
    actions, not words is what I want. I've been watching him and along with his lack of experience, I see lack of action.

    Parent
    No more speeches, please (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:58:31 PM EST
    Why doesn't he DO something?

    Parent
    progressivism is dead (5.00 / 5) (#98)
    by tarheel74 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:17:21 PM EST
    with the exception of BTD, Jeralyn, Jerome Armstrong and Taylor Marsh, progressives have abdicated their progressivism. There are no progressives left. When the progressive blogs choose to overlook misogyny as harmless fun and instead scour over imaginative racial slurs to create a controversy and portray someone in monstrous terms I can safely say that progressivism is dead. It is all political horseplay.
    Even today in retrospect we have one columnist/blogger still pushing the Clinton appeals to the nascent racism of blue-collared Americans meme on Newsweek, we still have Josh Marshall pushing some new story of Clinton causing racial division between Jews and blacks and we still have misogyny being laughed away as harmless frat-boy humor. How pathetic.

    Waiting for you to throw Taylor under the bus (1.00 / 1) (#147)
    by TedL on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:54:58 PM EST
    You do know that Taylor Marsh supports Obama for President now?  

    My guess is that before very long the commenters on this thread will feel comfortable dragging her name through the mud as regressive, just like they now do to Steinem and Pollitt.

    Does this not make you wonder whether people are having a hard time being fair right now?  

    Also, this needs to be said: if Hillary had voted against the war - as 21 Democrats in the Senate found the courage to do - she would be the Democratic nominee for President.  Period.

    Parent

    Taylor (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by LoisInCo on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:20:23 PM EST
    always said she would support the nominee as does Jerayln. Supporting the nominee and supporting the Collective mindset are different things. You can support Obama because you deem him the lesser of the evils and still despise the evil it has done.

    Parent
    Is that why Kerry failed to get the nomination in (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by tree on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:21:18 PM EST
    2004? And Edwards didn't get to be the vice presidential nominee?  Oh, wait.....

    Parent
    And yet, The Nation also gave us these: (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by Anne on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:58:57 PM EST
    Barbara Ehrenreich - who I used to have some respect for:

    Hillary Clinton smashed the myth of innate female moral superiority in the worst possible way--by demonstrating female moral inferiority. We didn't really need her racial innuendos and free-floating bellicosity to establish that women aren't wimps. As a generation of young feminists realizes, the values once thought to be uniquely and genetically female--such as compassion and an aversion to violence--can be found in either sex, and sometimes it's a man who best upholds them.

    And Betsy Reed...all I can say is, ugh.

    The sexist attacks on Clinton are outrageous and deplorable, but there's reason to be concerned about her becoming the vehicle for a feminist reawakening. For one thing, feminist sympathy for her has begotten an "oppression sweepstakes" in which a number of her prominent supporters, dismayed at her upstaging by Obama, have declared a contest between racial and gender bias and named sexism the greater scourge. This maneuver is not only unhelpful for coalition-building but obstructs understanding of how sexism and racism have played out in this election in different (and interrelated) ways.

    I canceled my subscription some time ago.

    Jon Stewart (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Gambit on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:05:34 PM EST
    Hey did yall see the jon stewart satire comedy bit that laid out a lot of the sexist comments made thus far by the media while a woman stripped down to woman woman underoos. Sharp and funny (but sad because it all was true.)

    Jon Stewart (5.00 / 4) (#183)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:20:57 PM EST
    is another one I don't watch anymore after this election.

    Won't ever again, either.

    Parent

    Same here (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by stillife on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:24:46 PM EST
    He's off my tivo list.  He jumped the shark when he went into the tank for Obama.

    Parent
    But teresa.... (none / 0) (#186)
    by Gambit on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:25:16 PM EST
    stewart's point was to point out the constant sexism in the media during this cycle. he's cool i swear! lol

    Parent
    He's been (5.00 / 2) (#199)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:55:28 PM EST
    in the tank and a massive disgusting Hillary basher.

    He's yet another one who attempts to redeem himself after the fact.

    Too late, Jon.

    Parent

    Sexism, misogyny... (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by jackyt on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 02:04:47 PM EST
    are bullying tactics. The purpose of bullying is to coerce the one being bullied to surrender her personal power.

    I will not turn over an ounce of my resources or energy to anyone or any entity that tries to bully me. For starters: Obama does NOT get my vote. The DNC does NOT get my money. DKos, TPM, AmericaBlog, HuffPost, (and ever so many more) are long since scrubbed from my bookmarks. ABC and NBC do NOT get my eyeballs. MSNBC, CNN, et alia, are cancelled from my satellite subscription. Wapo and NYT no longer get hits from me.

    I will work in support of issues I care about: single-payer universal health care, universal public education, equal pay for work of equal value, universal civil rights being chief among them.

    No candidate will get a pass from me until I see concrete proof of a willingness to support policies of which I approve.

    It's my power and I'll hold it fiercely, thank you very much!

    It's all Obama had to work with. (4.91 / 12) (#44)
    by Radix on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:35:31 AM EST
    He couldn't point to policy differences. He couldn't show a better or stronger voting record. He couldn't demonstrate a better grasp of details. All Obama was left with, in the end, was, "Vote for me, because she's a poopy-head." This isn't the first time the media and a Dem candidate have tried this, think Bradley and Gore, it's just the first time the Democrats fell for it.

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth
    Just data to be manipulated.

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    It should have been, no advantageous policy (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by MMW on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:45:08 AM EST
    differences with her, and it would have been a five. Her policies are superior to his, they are different.

    Parent
    Yeah that was rather a clumsy (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Radix on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:54:42 AM EST
    statement on my part. You are correct, her specific changes to the problems were better. The point, I should have made,  they both saw the same basic problems, they approached them with different solutions though.

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth
    Just data to be manipulated.

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    Parent

    Get A Grip People! (1.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Gambit on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:51:34 AM EST
    Seriously guys. To say that sexism is absurd. But to deny racism existed in this is also absurd. They TIED you guys! Obama said nothing about the outrageous sexism in the campaign, and clinton said nothing about the obvious racism and anti-muslim hate in this nomination. I wonder what percentage of people in this country are capable of seeing the world and this election objectively?

    Parent
    Please point to the racism, as (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Radix on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:59:40 AM EST
    used by the Clinton's or the media? In this thread you were offered specific examples of sexism, please give us specific examples of racism or anti-Muslim speech.

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth
    Just data to be manipulated.

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    Parent

    is that a trick question? (2.25 / 4) (#108)
    by Gambit on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:22:31 PM EST
    You must be joking. Or you didn't get the obama is a muslim, obama might be a drug dealer emails, Geraldine Ferraro's asinine "lucky" comments,and since you ticked me off by not being fair, the constant "assassination conversation" as if no other candidate is in danger, and somebody when asked directly about his religion replied he's not muslim "as far as I know", etc. Stop the brainwashing on both sides. It's a dangerous game people are playing.

    Parent
    don't go there.... (5.00 / 5) (#132)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:44:47 PM EST
    Discussing Obama's admitted drug use is NOT racist.  We talked about Bill Clinton's and GW's drug use in previous campaigns.  You can argue like GW did that it is OLD and irrelevant, but not racist.

    the not a Muslim, as far as I know...  is a BIG stretch.  She was asked the same question by Steve Kroft three times.  How clever of her to know hw would do that so she could implement her evil plot on the third time.  Just think, if Kroft had moved on after one of her earlier NO answers, she would have been out of luck.

    Her reference to Bobby Kennedy's assasination was a timeline reference that his campaign was still going on in June and you know that.  But, the media and the Obama supporters took anything the Clintons said and always twisted it into the worst possibly interpretation they could use to demonize her a little more.

    Ferraro's comments were completely accurate.  And remember, they came much later in the campaign after Obama and the media had already labeled Clinton a racist.  THINK for one minute about what Ferraro said.  If Obama were a white, 1st term senator there would have been no race-card accusations by either side.  Clinton would have maintained her wide lead in the black vote.  She would have won SC, Obama would have probably placed third there behind Edwards.  Most of here Super Tuesday victories would have been larger with increased support from blacks.  She would have won Missouri because she only lost there by 10,000 votes with no black support.  Yes Obama may still have won the RED states that he won in the west.  But none of the victories he won with the black vote would have been his.  DC, Maryland, VA  none of them.  Ferraro was RIGHT, he was winning the primaries because he is black.  taking the support away from Clinton in the black community was the ONLY way for ANY candidate to beat her.  That was the plan from day one.


    Parent

    Ok here we go. (5.00 / 5) (#140)
    by Radix on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:49:56 PM EST
    How can you construe Ferraro's lucky comment as racists? Is this going to be one of those Bill Clinton's "fairy tale" comment type explanations? The RFK thing is truly funny, it was clear Hillary was talking about the time frame, Bobby's clear lack of delegates to win, and his willingness to go on to the convention to fight it out. The only thing that prevented a convention floor fight, was his tragic death, not his having enough delegates to win. As to to the, "as far as I know" comment, you'll recall that was the answer given after her saying 3 or 4 times "no". The drug dealer charge, who made that one?

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth
    Just data to be manipulated.

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    Parent

    OK... (none / 0) (#83)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:07:16 PM EST
    ...here's an example.  Racist and sexist.

    http://tinyurl.com/6hglkk

    Hopefully you will denounce this as strongly as you have anything coming from the Obama camp.  

    Parent

    Yes posters at Blogs have gone beyond (5.00 / 0) (#100)
    by Radix on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:19:19 PM EST
    the pale, no question there. But surely you must see the difference between the campaigns and the MSM using these views and individual posters on Blogs?

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth
    Just data to be manipulated.

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    Parent

    Yes... (1.00 / 1) (#122)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:38:38 PM EST
    ...I do understand that.  What I don't understand is this insistance that BO must reject and denounce every single person who ever uttered a nasty word about Hillary while turning a blind eye to what is coming out of the Clinton camp/supporters.  

    It is disgusting no matter the source.  

    Parent

    Brother, are you thick. (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by pie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:44:09 PM EST
    He didn't have to reject and renounce every single nasty word every time it happened..

    He only had to do it once.

    Parent

    I just asked my husband (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by pie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:46:34 PM EST
    if men are really this clueless about sexism and what's gone on in this campaign.

    He claims not.

    If you can see racism, you can certainly see sexism.

    Parent

    Actually... (1.00 / 1) (#148)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:55:17 PM EST
    ...like most people with health problems similar to mine, I am rather thin.  But, if it makes you feel better about yourself to call people names, then you go right ahead.

    Now, aside from your lookist comment, can you answer my question?  

    Parent

    I'm sorry about your health problems, (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by pie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:03:14 PM EST
    but I was referring to your skull and your insensitivity.  No man is an island, ya know.  That includes women, in case you didn't realize it.  

    Now what question is it?  I answered your comment.

    Obama only had to make a statement once in general terms about the sexist remarks.  His supporters would have listened or not, but at least he would have addressed it.

    He did not, preferring to allow even more of it to occur.

    Parent

    Yeaaah. (1.00 / 1) (#176)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:15:49 PM EST
    ...more name calling, huh?  Please educate me on how I am insensitive.  Did you want to go for the trifecta and tell me I was raised wrong too?  Perhaps something else that you have absolutely no idea of what you speak?

    What I'm trying to get you to address is the apparent double standard that BO must denounce things that are said about Hillary while you all remain silent about the thing that are send about him (or his wife).

    Parent

    What things?!! (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by pie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:20:32 PM EST
    That he doesn't have Hillary or McCain's experience?  That he's weak on policy?  That he wasn't the best qualified candidate?

    The truth hurts, I guess.

    Gotta go.  Have a good day.

    Parent

    And ... (1.00 / 1) (#159)
    by TedL on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:00:51 PM EST
    The number of times Hillary made the kind of denunciation you are saying Obama was required to make...?  That would be zero.

    Also, regarding the MSM, I missed her ringing defense of Obama on the question of whether he's a muslim.  But I do remember contributing to the guilt-by-association campaign by pointing to his connections with Bill Ayers.

    You know, it wasn't Obama who called her strategy as the "kitchen sink" strategy - it was her own campaign.

    Parent

    Keep pushing that nonsense. (none / 0) (#170)
    by pie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:06:54 PM EST
    Kitchen-sink strategy (none / 0) (#204)
    by wasabi on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 02:31:10 PM EST
    I never could find the origin of that comment.  The closest I came in my Google search is "unnamed sources" which I tend to discount.

    Parent
    he didn't have to (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:52:00 PM EST
    he could have come out ONE TIME and spoken about the CRAP that was being allowed and encouraged on pro Obama web sites even without specifically naming them.  He could have said it is beneath the level of discourse his campaign wanted to engage in.  He could have said he wanted no part of it, wouldn't engage in it and wouldn't encourage or reward it.

    Yesterday, he FORCED the DNC to do away with Lobbyis and PAC money.

    He has yet to use his new found power to FORCE the dem party to remove the convention blogging credentails from the likes of AmericaBlog, Atrios, DailyKos, Huffpo.  But, he should.  It wasn't just commenters there, it was the editorial direction that the blog owners there allowed and encouraged.

    In fact I saw a reprinted memo recently that Obama sent to AmericaBlog thanking them for their support.  So, not only did he not condemn them, he has actively THANKED them.

    Parent

    Going out on a limb and risking another (none / 0) (#105)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:22:00 PM EST
    troll rating from Milehi....but I am pretty sure that didn't come from the Clinton camp.

    Parent
    LOL... (1.00 / 1) (#118)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:35:20 PM EST
    ...that's pretty funny coming from you!  Did you want to go crying to J again?

    Parent
    Would it be possible -just once- (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by samanthasmom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:03:48 PM EST
    to have a conversation about sexism that did not compare it to racism? They're are both wrong, and they don't cancel each other out.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Nadai on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:12:35 PM EST
    You're a girl.  It doesn't matter what you want to talk about.  Now knuckle under and discuss the topic chosen by your betters.

    Parent
    two points (none / 0) (#168)
    by TedL on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    I agree with the commenter upthread - it would be great to have a conversation about sexism that wasn't a comparison to racism.  It would do us a hell of a lot of good.

    One reason we don't is that, for the moment, people are still wanting to use sexism as a political weapon, to argue that Obama had it easier than Clinton.  So, if you make that argument, it's hard to avoid the follow-on.

    And as for the comment immediately above - that's an attitude that consistently undermines people who try to make serious arguments about sexism.  

    Parent

    Oh, blow it out your ear (4.00 / 4) (#195)
    by Nadai on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:49:00 PM EST
    This happens on every feminist blog, too, every single time we try to discuss anything about sexism.  Hordes of whining trolls crying about how we're all so mean, and men have it rough, too, and how'd they support us if only we were nicer but since we're all b!tches, they can't.  Talk about rape, and it's Men are raped, too.  Talk about clitorectomy, and it's What about circumcision, huh?.  Talk about the pay gap between men and women, and it's Well, men chose higher paying jobs and it's all women's fault, anyway, because they take off to have children.

    You don't want a serious discussion of sexism.  You - and M. Milehi - want us to shut up criticizing Obama.  I see no reason why we should oblige you.

    Parent

    the MEDIA did not (5.00 / 8) (#107)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:22:27 PM EST
    engage in racism or anti-muslim hate as they did sexism.

    And, if you continue to try to claim that Clinton played the "race card" I will argue with you until I die.  It was the Obama campaign, the media, the pundits and Obama's supporters who played the "race card" against Clinton in order to drive down her support among African Americans.  It was the only way he had a chance to win.  And it was part of his campaign strategy as evidenced by the four page Obama campaign memo telling operatives how to use race against Clinton that Tim Russert held up in the debate prior to SC.

    There was NOTHING racist about "roll of the dice", "fairytale", "LBJ / MLK", discussing Obama's drug use.  But, Obama used all of this in order to ensure a HUGE win in SC.

    It was Obama's playing of the "race card" that allowed him to stay in the race after "Super Tuesday".  Clinton would have blown him away on Super Tuesday had it not been for that.

    Had the media done their job and brought Rev Wright to light earlier in the campaign, Obama wouldn't have held up on Super Tuesday or in that run of 11 straight wins either.

    Parent

    Correction (none / 0) (#119)
    by Gambit on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:35:39 PM EST
    I never claimed clinton herself used racism. the point i was responding to was sticking obama with the sexist garbage coming from his supporters and the media words and actions. that's wrong. the clintons have bad associates too but they aren't responsible for everything supporters say or do. Geez i'm a supporter of both. guilt by association is a major reason why we don't have MORE good honest people in government.

    Parent
    which part of (5.00 / 4) (#166)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    the Obama campaign's OFFICIAL four page memo with instructions on using 'race baiting' against the Clintons in SC are you trying to defend?  As you may recall, Obama denied this in the debate until Tim Russert held up the campaign memo.

    Parent
    I'll honestly look into it (none / 0) (#174)
    by Gambit on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:10:46 PM EST
    tim and i respect you for actually attempting to bring up FACTS that support the claim that obama HIMSELF is less than honorable. If it fully checks out, consider your point conceded my man!

    Parent
    Show just 1 'souvenir' like the nutcracker please (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by Ellie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:24:26 PM EST
    Or t-shirts and bumper stickers with egregious acronyms.

    Don't pretend you have to "parse" the message off those or that people who see bigotry of the ugliest nature there are too sensitive.

    I want to know why the guilty parties are showing such speed in getting up the pretense that this didn't occur.

    It's going to take years before I forget or forgive what I saw the Dems and Obama excuse these last few months.

    Parent

    Curious George (none / 0) (#125)
    by Gambit on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:39:27 PM EST
    You didn't see the Curious George/Obama '08 t-shirt? That was a classic. To automatically attribute that to ANYTHING Clinton believes is beyond absurd. Obama/Clinton '08

    Parent
    Oh please that's not even in the same hemisphere (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Ellie on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:48:47 PM EST
    OMG a kids' story book equals a steal vagina with teeth.

    You're beyond hope. Good luck to any young girl under yoru guidance.

    Parent

    the difference is (5.00 / 3) (#172)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:08:44 PM EST
    that everyone in the media immediately called it racist and unacceptable.  No one condoned it.  But, that hasn't been the case with the sexism.  very few even admit that it was there.  And many excuse it as appropriate because it was Hillary and she deserved it.

    How many times have you had a discussion with an Obama supporter and they condemn anything that even comes close to racism.  But, as soon as you point to any unfair treatment of Clinton, their first response is to defend it by saying it is TRUE in her case, therfore it can be said without any problem.  Hell, the pundit on CNN one week ago said it was OK to call Clinto a B*tch because she is one.  And, that has always been the defense Obama supporters have used for the vile crap they have said about Clinton.

    Parent

    I'm not defending the media (none / 0) (#179)
    by Gambit on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:17:43 PM EST
    i'm defending the candidates. I'll never defend mcstain because he HIMSELF called his wife a c*nt and called chelsea clinton ugly when she was only a teenager. There is a point to my argument ladies and gents, but i respect everybodys opinion on this. BTD and talkleft have been dead on in his portrayal of the media as it relates to sexism.

    Parent
    If you've got an example of anyone (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by tree on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:12:55 PM EST
    in the MSM wearing such a shirt on TV and laughing about it, then you've got a comparable offense to the nutcracker. If you've got an example of it being sold in airports, you've got a comparable example. No such thing happened.  It was one guy in his own shop that sold it, and when the story went nationwide all the coverage was negative You're stretching for comparisons  that don't exist.

    Parent
    You mean the T-shirt (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Nadai on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:50:36 PM EST
    put out by the guy whose sign also read "I wish Hillary had married OJ"?  Sounds like an equal-opportunity bigot to me.

    Parent
    South Park (none / 0) (#5)
    by NYMARJ on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:05:16 AM EST
    My husband actually thought it was over for Hillary when he heard about the South Park episode - so blatant.

    I wasn't aware of that episode (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:06:40 AM EST
    It's a show I don't watch with any regularity.

    Parent
    South Park is plain offensive (none / 0) (#38)
    by coigue on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:32:21 AM EST
    to everyone. That disclaimer at the beginning is correct.

    So, I guess I am not too upset over her being portrayed as such be a show that featured Bono as an animated turd, and used child molestation as a funny plot theme.

    On the other hand, the rest of the media should not act like South Park.

    Offensive to EVERYONE? (none / 0) (#69)
    by zyx on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:54:59 AM EST
    I don't watch it, and I don't read everything.  Have they had an episode that was offensive to Obama?  How was it done?

    Parent
    I stopped watching after (none / 0) (#120)
    by coigue on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:36:43 PM EST
    they portrayed an eminent Swedish group that awarded a prize for the largest turd (meant to be a spoof of the Nobel prize). They even showed the process of making the turd.

    Anyhow, I would be shocked if they did not spoof Obama and McCain as well. They have a black character named Token.

    Parent

    Oh, I realize SP will insult Obama (none / 0) (#144)
    by zyx on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:53:17 PM EST
    ...eventually.

    But not yet.

    Parent

    Could we continue fighting right now, please? (none / 0) (#203)
    by AM on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 02:08:43 PM EST
    BTD wrote:

    It must be fought by anyone who calls themselves a progressive and a Democrat. Be they a politician, pundit, blogger or citizen. It is a big deal.

    But of course. That's why we Hillary supporters are fighting mad and not just threatening, but planning, to not vote for BO should he be the nominee--or for the super delegates and DNC leadership supporting him. We're making lists.

    I do appreciate your sentiments, BTD, but you sound as though the thing to do is to start having meetings to discuss mysogyny rather than fight the battle staring us in the face.

    Start with PUMA, for example:

    http://blog.pumapac.org/

    Voting (none / 0) (#206)
    by cardcarryingmember on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 03:04:43 PM EST
    Why are people so willing to throw away their hard-won right to vote? Nobody ever promised you that the choice you would have to make when you go in the booth would be between an obvious good choice and an obvious bad choice. "The lesser of two evils" may be a cliche but for many of you it seems to be accurate. For me, simply not voting can never, ever, ever be a valid choice in a democratic republic. Do all of you Democrats (in earlier incarnations, at least) who will either vote for McCain, or not vote at all (the least respectable option), really feel comfortable with contributing to the potential electoral victory of a guy who has no qualms about continuing domestic spying unhindered, who has declared he has no problem with pursuing an anti-choice agenda when it comes to judges, who will continue the unbelievably regressive tax policies of our current jackass-in-chief? I mean, really, what is up with that? I respect your sadness at the loss of Hilary Clinton, but has that loss completely blinkered your sense of progressive values beyond all comprehension?