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Librarian Booted From McCain Event in Denver

Via Progress Now, which captured the video, Carole Kreck, a 61 year librarian was waiting in line this morning at the Denver Center for Performing Arts to attend the John McCain town hall meeting. She held a sign that said "McCain = Bush."

McCain's security detail told her to leave. The police were called. They issued her a ticket for trespassing and escorted her out.

The event was open to the public. They advised people to arrive a few hours early. How can you trespass on public property if you've been invited to the event being held on that property?

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  • Display: Sort:
    Let's not miss the point here (5.00 / 6) (#3)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:08:55 PM EST
    The takeaway from this is, McCain's campaign views being compared to Bush as an insult.

    Do you think they would have had the same reaction if her sign had said "McCain = Reagan"?

    There are a million ways for Democrats to make hay with this that are a lot more politically salient than "ZOMG McCain is suppressing dissent!"

    It's not an insult because (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by scribe on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:14:51 PM EST
    it's accurate.

    Or, said another way:  "you can't handle the truth."

    Parent

    How true. (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by pie on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:10:03 PM EST
    So when Obama's campaign does it, and it will, you'll be just as outraged.

    Good for you!

    Parent

    He is suppressing dissent (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:11:02 PM EST
    What part of being given a ticket and told if you return you will be arrested -- because of holding a sign on public property -- don't you get?

    Of course he is (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:16:28 PM EST
    My point is that you can get a lot more political mileage out of this by emphasizing the other aspect of the story.

    Parent
    What other aspects of the story? (none / 0) (#67)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 07:37:18 PM EST
    As I said above (none / 0) (#73)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:03:52 PM EST
    the fact that McCain's campaign actually considers being compared to Bush as insulting says quite a bit.  Remember, this is a guy who's been trying to tell conservatives that he's supported Bush's policies.

    Parent
    Glad To Hear An Attorney Asking (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by daring grace on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:26:33 PM EST
    these questions, because I'm sitting here--ignorant citizen--with memories of the sixties and the lessons we were given about our rights before we started demonstrating, and wondering WTF?

    But then, it's an era of fences around even the Dem conventions now and the powers that be have succumbed to a taste for orderly, hygienic photo ops around events.

    THIS needs to be challenged wherever and by whomever it is done.

    It's un-American.

    (Well, as a historian, I look at that last statement and realize: Hey, that's been pretty common in our history--routine suppression of speech and assembly.)

    Still, it IS anti American. It dishonors the sacrifices so many (like McCain) have made to supposedly preserve these freedoms.

    Parent

    No different (5.00 / 6) (#45)
    by facta non verba on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:19:55 PM EST
    than Obama. He too has culled protesters from his rallies. In Portland, three Clinton supporters were not allowed entry to his rally for having anti-Obama signs.

    This is now parcel post of US campaigning. It's wrong but that is the reality.

    Parent

    Oh! (none / 0) (#51)
    by talex26 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:28:31 PM EST
    I didn't know that. I anticipated it happening but didn't know it already did.

    So I can't wear my Clinton T-Shirt to Invesco Field without getting thrown out?

    Parent

    I'm sure you can (none / 0) (#52)
    by MyLeftMind on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:29:56 PM EST
    Hillary's on our side now.

    Parent
    It Says (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by talex26 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:37:26 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton for President

    Parent
    I've got one too (none / 0) (#69)
    by MyLeftMind on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 07:47:15 PM EST
    And if I go to Denver I'll wear it.  How else are we going to meet each other?

    Parent
    Wear a jacket over your (none / 0) (#76)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:13:59 PM EST
    T-shirt until seated....

    Parent
    I can't resist... (none / 0) (#64)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 07:14:48 PM EST
    No, as long as you stand on the stage and repent your sinning ways before the 75,000.

    You will of course have to tear your shirt off in self-condemnation.  I suggest wearing something underneath.  Maybe a leotard.

    Parent

    At theme parks (like Disney World) (none / 0) (#75)
    by Grace on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:12:50 PM EST
    If they don't like your t-shirt, they make you wear it inside out.  

    Just make sure you have "Hillary for President" on the inside too.  ;-)

    Parent

    Cite? I wasn't aware of that (none / 0) (#65)
    by JayBat on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 07:30:11 PM EST
    I know folks with non-official-campaign signs were asked leave them outside; the campaign tries to be pretty consistent about that with any kind of sign, pro/anti/other. But I wasn't aware of anybody being turned away by security after giving up their sign.

    Thanks! -Jay-

    Parent

    "part and parcel" ? (none / 0) (#82)
    by wmr on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:47:05 PM EST
    Or "par for the course"?

    Parent
    See (none / 0) (#8)
    by Wile ECoyote on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:15:30 PM EST
    above.

    Parent
    Any status update on ACLU suits (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ben Masel on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:41:02 PM EST
    over free speech outside the Demcon?

    Parent
    Anti-Obama folks (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:21:08 PM EST
    at the Unity event got the same treatment, minus the ticket (no ticket largely because the local cops seemed to be sympathetic and refused to 'escort' protesters to the free speech area 1/4 mile away).

    In Denver the free speech area will be in a cage.

    I'm really not sure I see much of a difference, except McCain's campaign seems better at getting cooperation of the local cops in disposing of nonsupporters.

    So maybe the complaint is really with the officers, not the candidates.

    Is that McCain's secret service detail or the (5.00 / 0) (#20)
    by Grace on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:38:53 PM EST
    Denver police?  I've never seen secret service in a uniform with thingies on the sleeves and a badge.  They look more like an outside security service hired for the event, not secret service.

    At any rate, this type thing seems to be standard for all the campaigns anymore.  

    Carol Kreck. Not your average librarian... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:38:54 PM EST
    Location: Denver, CO
    My Story: Retired newspaper reporter, full-time student interested in criminal justice reform, part-time librarian at a think tank. More of two grown daughters.
    Birth Date: September 20th
    Issues: Affordable Healthcare; Education ; Energy and Global Warming ; Environment and Conservation; Equality/Civil Rights; Foreign Policy; Immigration Reform; Iraq War
    Registered to Vote: Yes
    Party Affiliation: Democrat
    Political Identification: Progressive



    What's YOUR 'Average Librarian'? (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by daring grace on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:46:24 PM EST
    She sounds like most of the ones I know.

    Parent
    I guess my 'average librarian' (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:58:05 PM EST
    would be my own mother. She was a "real" librarian for many years - you know, school and public library librarian, not a "part time librarian at a think tank" who's also a "full-time student interested in criminal justice reform" who's "Issues [are]: Affordable Healthcare; Education ; Energy and Global Warming ; Environment and Conservation; Equality/Civil Rights; Foreign Policy; Immigration Reform; Iraq War."

    I guess the headline "Liberal Political Activist and Ex-Denver Post Newspaper Reporter Booted From McCain Event in Denver" while more true is less sensational.

    I'm surprised she and Jeralyn don't know each other considering their affinities.


    Parent

    Interesting (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:09:26 PM EST
    I suppose it must be pretty stunning to find out that the lady carrying the "McCain = Bush" sign was politically active.

    Parent
    What's interesting is that Ms. Kreck (1.00 / 0) (#47)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:24:00 PM EST
    is affiliated with Progress Now, Progress Now being the very same folks who supplied the video:
    Via Progress Now, which captured the video, Carole Kreck, a 61 year librarian was waiting in line this morning at the Denver Center for Performing Arts to attend the John McCain town hall meeting. She held a sign that said "McCain = Bush."
    Note that I find it interesting, but not stunning, that Progress Now would manufacture the stunt, edit the video, and then present it as "news."

    Parent
    Manufacture the stunt? (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:33:19 PM EST
    You mean Progress whateveritis hired rent-a-cops and gave them instructions to throw her out?

    Parent
    That is very telling (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:35:31 PM EST
    and here I would have thought all of that would be pretty meaningless without, you know, the people who actually throw her out and the police who actually write her a ticket.

    But you're right, unless the camera just accidentally happened to be in the vicinity, the stuff that happened was all manufactured.

    Parent

    Two sides. (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by pie on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:45:07 PM EST
    Always teo sides.

    However, when Obama's campaign does it, it will be heartily supported.

    We need to get the country back on track.

    Dissent is a good thing.

    Parent

    Dissent IS A Good Thing (none / 0) (#111)
    by daring grace on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 12:50:21 PM EST

    And if, as you say,

    "... when Obama's campaign does it, it [suppressing demonstrations of dissent] will be heartily supported."

    Not by this Obama supporter, it won't.

    Parent

    Was Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Bus Boycott (5.00 / 0) (#68)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 07:42:01 PM EST
    A political stunt?  Of course the answer is yes, but it worked only because the oppressive system was in place

    Parent
    Rosa Parks was not (none / 0) (#81)
    by tree on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:27:27 PM EST
    pulling a stunt. I'm surprised that you would claim such a thing.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 0) (#86)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 09:39:32 PM EST
    Rosa Parks was a secretary for the local chapter of the NAACP.  You better believe it was a stunt.

    Parent
    Praise the sun god.... (5.00 / 0) (#105)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 09:04:43 AM EST
    people pull these stunts.

    How else are we to recognize the tyranny around us?

    The Boston Tea Party was a stunt.

    Parent

    You're right that she was (3.00 / 0) (#97)
    by weltec2 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:11:45 AM EST
    a secretary for the NAACP. But it doesn't follow that it was a stunt. She had had similar experiences in the past. Also other Blacks connected with the NAACP had had well-known run-ins with the police over the same issue.

    Parent
    Okay (5.00 / 0) (#98)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:24:20 AM EST
    It's very well-documented that this was a planned act of political activism, but believe whatever you like.

    Parent
    I don't think a situation (none / 0) (#88)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 10:09:43 PM EST
    in which you literally take your life in your hands for no pecuniary reward constitutes a stunt.

    Parent
    I recall an interview with one of (none / 0) (#89)
    by JSN on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 10:11:28 PM EST
    MLKs staff and he said they knew who Rosa was but they did not expect her to protest. They were confident there would be a protest by someone but they did not know in advance who it would be and where it would happen.

    My recollection was the press were not present but they got there very quickly. If it was a stunt the press would have been tipped off.

    Parent

    MLK was not part of the boycott at this point (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:15:27 PM EST
    Though obviouslly his staff would have the info on the event.  MLK was picked to run the bus boycott after it got started because the other powerful black ministers couldn't decide who was was going to lead it (too many chiefs), so they named MLK who was not well known outside of his father, because they thought they could control him.  He was finishing his PDH at the time.

    Parent
    Yes it was (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:06:53 PM EST
    The word "stunt" might be the wrong word, but it was 100% orchestrated.  In fact, they tried  the front of the bus thing with a number of other people before her, and quickly found that the people they used has some stupid something the powers that be could attack.  It was the fact that she was so clean cut and nice looking, that made her such a powerful image.  When you read about the montgomery bus boycott you see the combination of amazing organization and sheer amazing luck.  Facinating story

    An example of the luck component that I love.  When they first decided to boycott the bus, there was a tiny intial success. This tiny success was enough to get th word got out to the police that there was a bus boycott.  Th police believed that the only way that these blacks could pull off the boycott  was if there were other blacks intimidating people to not get on the bus.  So in response, they put a buntch of police out on the street, following the busses, etc., this of course scared the blacks away from getting on the bus.  Thus it was the police's actions that trully led to the initial success, which motivated greater participation in the boycott.

    Parent

    Well, if in fact it was a planned (none / 0) (#103)
    by tree on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 02:46:15 AM EST
    act of disobedience, then I stand corrected, but I don't think the word "stunt" is the right word for what she did. A "stunt" is something you do to make someone look bad, or to create a "gotcha" moment, as far as I'm concerned. Parks'  civil disobedience was intended to change a policy and the law, not as a cheap "gotcha" moment.

    Parent
    When four Black college freshmen (none / 0) (#85)
    by weltec2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 09:27:30 PM EST
    sat down at a lunch counter in F.W. Woolworths in Greensboro, NC in 1960 there was a camera there too but there was no way that was staged. The police didn't care that the cameras were there. As for Rosa Parks being a stunt... do you have a solid reference for that? I'd like to see it.

    Parent
    I can't believe you would actually suggest that (none / 0) (#91)
    by dutchfox on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 10:43:15 PM EST
    Again it is not said out of disrespect (5.00 / 0) (#93)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:10:28 PM EST
    Far from it.  It was a planned organized event.  The "spontaneous" moment of resistance is a fairy tale that blinds us to the fact that true change takes amazing organization and skill.

    All of this information is in the pulizer prize winning book by taylor branch "Party the Waters".  I trully recommend it.  It is one of the most inspiring books.  A history book that makes you cry, laugh and demands a pen, is worth the price of admission.

    Parent

    I checked this on Amazon.com (none / 0) (#99)
    by weltec2 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:32:47 AM EST
    The title is Parting the Waters: America in the King Years, 1954-63 by Taylor Branch. It is available in paperback for $14.96 published by Simon & Schuster. Thanks for the reference; much appreciated.

    Parent
    Sorry about the title mess up (none / 0) (#104)
    by samtaylor2 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 07:39:43 AM EST
    Enjoy.  The only problem is that is about 1000 pages long, and is the first book of 3 (I have only read the first book).  It should be required college reading in my mind.

    Also for those of us even cheaper, I have bought the book for a number of friends (probably 5) and there has always been a copy at whatever local used bookstore I have gone to.

    Parent

    Yep, hard to argue with that. (none / 0) (#61)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:48:29 PM EST
    It's all a big coinky-dinky.

    Parent
    Sheeesh... (none / 0) (#66)
    by weltec2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 07:32:10 PM EST
    and I wanted to give her a big hug.

    Parent
    I Meet A Lot of Librarians (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by daring grace on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:18:44 PM EST
    in my line of work in various settings and 'collections' and this one sounds like many (not all) of them to me.

    Including the part where they have come to library work as a second profession.

    Of course, they're not (as far as I know) all liberal.

    Parent

    Indeed (none / 0) (#53)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:31:57 PM EST
    Great! (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Grace on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:02:54 PM EST
    Now we have Democrat Freepers!  ;-)

    Parent
    Yeah, where did all those (none / 0) (#56)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:34:18 PM EST
    "sweeties" we had for a week or so go?

    Parent
    So. What is your point? Do some (5.00 / 0) (#70)
    by my opinion on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 07:57:20 PM EST
    people have more rights than others? Is it wrong to belong to political organizations? Isn't that what democracy is about?

    Parent
    Exactly... (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 09:12:04 AM EST
    who cares if she is a librarian or a left wing activist loon...she's an American and has a right to be there and air her grievances.

    I don't care if you're a member of the ACLU, the NRA, or the Klan...you have a right to attend public campaign events.

    Parent

    Your invitation can be revoked at will for just about any reason by the entity in lawful control of the property.

    Parent
    Fair enough.... (none / 0) (#116)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 03:10:53 PM EST
    If thats waht the law says I disagree with the law...again.

    Maybe McCain should limit his invitations to his supporters, instead of an open invitation to the general public.

    As far as I'm concerned the McCain campaign broke their word...they didn't hold a town hall event open to the public, they held a pep rally for McCain supporters.  Which is fine, but don't call it a town hall and don't call it open to the public...because it just ain't true.

    Parent

    I can see your point, (none / 0) (#118)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:06:33 PM EST
    especially regarding political events.

    Parent
    You're a reasonable man.... (none / 0) (#119)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 05:26:43 PM EST
    and as always appreciate the counter-points.

    Parent
    Linky: (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:41:54 PM EST
    Hey (none / 0) (#33)
    by Wile ECoyote on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:55:24 PM EST
    I've filed books on the shelves of my kid's school twice.  That makes me a part time librarian.

    Parent
    We need Tshirts that say (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by MyLeftMind on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:02:01 PM EST
    McCain is a Republican

    and

    Bush is a Republican

    Get twenty people to wear them and head to the next McCain event.  Let's see how far the thought police go.  I mean really, this is too easy.

    Tickets, anyone?


    Or really confuse them (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Grace on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:24:43 PM EST
    Get t-shirts that say "Obama = McCain"

    I'll bet they won't know what to do then.  

    Parent

    How about (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by pie on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:26:15 PM EST
    Is Obama a democrat?

    Parent
    Or the (none / 0) (#100)
    by Grace on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:47:56 AM EST
    "Is McCain a Democrat?" t-shirt.

    I wonder what they would do then?    

    Parent

    Sure. (none / 0) (#78)
    by weltec2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:24:36 PM EST
    We could even insist that we are proud Bush supporters like John McCain. We could talk about making the tax cuts permanent and so on. Sounds good.

    Parent
    A McCain hugging Bush T shirt should work. (none / 0) (#84)
    by JSN on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 09:07:49 PM EST
    Did people watch this video? (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:04:39 PM EST
    At the begining, and official-ish looking man says something to the librarian.  It sounded to me like he said something about the sign, but I'm not sure.

    The video says 'Why was she asked to leave'?
    A non-official looking person asks the original official looking person why she's been asked to leave (which I'm not sure we've seen asked yet).

    OLP says he's been asked to, by the Secret Service.  'Secret Service' to me has a slightly different spin than 'security detail'.  McCain doesn't employ the Secret Service (isn't it Treasury Dept or something?)

    Enter the police.  The police-looking person tells the librarian that she can:

    you have two choices you can keep the sign and receive the ticket, for trespass, or you can give up the sign and stay in line and attend the town hall meeting.

    Emphasis added.

    When she asks the police looking person why he's saying it's a trespass, he says (a bit comically) "No, he's saying it's trespass on city property."

    The sign thing was exactly the same as Obama's event policy -- no homemade signs or you can't come in.  The only difference was the trespass ticket.  Either the official looking guy working at the behest of the Secret Service had a license allowing for exclusions, or the cop was acting outside his authority.

    Personally, I think both campaigns are equally bad from a free political discourse angle.  And I would say the same about Clinton if this was her policy as well.

    On the question of whether it was staged -- it quite obviously was.  That doesn't matter much, imo.  But to single out one campaign for criticism when it's standard policy for both (and perhaps all, as far as I know), bothers me.

    The first graphic asks (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by tree on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:17:08 PM EST
    why was she asked to leave, but it sounded to me like she was asked to give up the sign. She was only asked to leave when she refused to give up the sign. This is no different than what happened in Unity, except that in Unity the police used their discretion not to issue a ticket. There's a lot missing from the librarian video, so its hard to say what her reaction was to being asked to leave if she didn't give up the sign. She may have refused, in which case the police may have felt it necessary to give her a ticket to get her to leave with her sign. Again, its sad to say, but this appears to be standard practice for campaign events for both parties.

    Parent
    Now I'm wondering if the sign thing (none / 0) (#96)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 12:24:42 AM EST
    isn't actually either (or any of) the campaigns, maybe it's a Secret Service thing.  If the Sec Service really did ask the official-looking-guy to take away the librarian's sign, then maybe they do that at all the campaigns.

    Parent
    I watched one McCain (none / 0) (#101)
    by Grace on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:50:36 AM EST
    Townhall thing on TV and no one had any signs.  

    Maybe they just don't allow signs period?  

    Parent

    The answer to your question (1.00 / 1) (#2)
    by scribe on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:08:45 PM EST
    How can you trespass on public property after being invited to the event being held on that property?

    is

    IOKIYAR, but not if you oppose them.  The latter gets you arrested.

    And, for all you folks espousing "I'd vote for McCain (or stay home) rather than vote for Obama," this could be you, should you raise any dissent under a McCain administration.  He's got a notoriously short temper, and that (like it did under Giuliani in NYC) translates to thuggish cops gleefully arresting everyone, for any reason or no reason at all.  And should you not comply instantly, you get beaten.

    I think all elected officials and candidates.... (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:12:38 PM EST
    do it, and it's always outrageous.

    You see they want us to pay them, they want our votes, they want our campaign contributions...they just don't wanna have to look at us or even occupy the same space. Unless of course you are willing to cheer, applaud and generally kiss their arse.

    Parent

    What does McCain have to do (5.00 / 6) (#13)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:23:59 PM EST
    with Denver police behavior? That makes no sense to me. He's not the mayor. The Obama campaign tried to move Hillary supporters to a "free speech" zone down the road  from the Unity NH event but the local police wouldn't enforce it. The police are not controlled by candidates. And, protest signs weren't allowed into that event so it's not just Repubs who are trying to control free speech.

    Parent
    If The Obama Campaign Tried to Do That (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by daring grace on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:32:20 PM EST
    then they were wrong too, and deserve to be called out about it, as you just did.

    The police may not be 'controlled' by the candidates, but according to this account:

    "McCain's security detail told her to leave. The police were called."

    It seems pretty likely one 60 something librarian standing quietly with a sign wouldn't have attracted that attention or gotten a ticket if no one in McCain's campaign had complained.

    Ironically, they've probably earning more attention for her sign than if they'd ignored her in the first place.

    Parent

    Here's the account of what happened (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by tree on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:03:22 PM EST
    in Unity
    complete with video. Unfortunately this seems to be the standard response these days from all campaigns, whether Republican or Democratic. In both instances the objection is to the critical signs, not the protesters themselves. The librarian is given the option of staying in line but giving up her sign, and she chose the other option. Sadly, this is the status of free speech in America today. Its hypocritical to blame it only on one party when both indulge in the same behavior.

    Parent
    Yes (4.66 / 3) (#7)
    by Wile ECoyote on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:14:56 PM EST
    I'm sure McCain was calling the shots.  He was crouched on the rooftop with walkie talkie in hand pointing out that citizen.  He hates librarians, of course.

    Parent
    One of McCain's handlers was calling the shots.... (none / 0) (#107)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 09:14:00 AM EST
    I doubt the candidates know what their campaign next stop is...it's all the handlers.

    Parent
    Get a grip, please (none / 0) (#50)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:28:21 PM EST
    why is that offensive? (none / 0) (#1)
    by progrocks on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:04:30 PM EST
    That is a good question, and the most interesting aspect of that little video.

    The pea guy, that I can understand....

    Trespassing? I don't think so. (none / 0) (#10)
    by JSN on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:17:18 PM EST
    Even IWOA (interference with official acts) would be a stretch.  

    There actually are some federal cases (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by riddlerandy on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:19:49 PM EST
    upholding the right of a campaign to exclude those who wish to express a view different than that designed by the campaign even on public property, although the fact that this was expressly open to the public may be a difference.  Reagan-appointed judges no doubt.

    Parent
    Trespass defined (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:26:24 PM EST
    Denver Municipal Ordinance Code

    Sec. 38-115.  Trespass.

    (a)   It is unlawful for any person knowingly to enter or remain upon the premises of another when consent to enter or remain is absent, denied, or withdrawn by the owner, occupant, or person having lawful control thereof.

    (b)   It shall be prima facie evidence that consent is absent, denied, or withdrawn, to enter or remain upon the premises of another when:

    (1)   Any person fails or refuses to remove himself from said premises when requested to leave by the owner, occupant or person having lawful control thereof; or

    (2)   Such premises are fenced or otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders; or

    (3)   Private property or public property, which is not then open to the public, is posted with signs which give notice that entrance is forbidden.

    (c)   For purpose of subsection (b)(3):

    (1)   A "conspicuous sign" shall mean a sign that is at least one (1) square foot in size and sufficiently lighted to be clear and visible and that is posted in a conspicuous location.

    (2)   "Sufficient notice" that entrance is forbidden shall be established when the lettering on a conspicuous sign is at least one (1) inch in height and contains language that is substantially similar to the following: "Private property: Keep out  . . . . Violators subject to arrest" or "Private property  . . . . Violators subject to arrest between the hours of ___ and ___."

    It would be interesting to see (none / 0) (#17)
    by riddlerandy on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:35:05 PM EST
    what the permit for the event said.  Did it authorize the event sponsors to control who would be allowed to attend?  The fact that it was on public property may not be dispositive if the permit holders had the exclusive right to the property for the period of the parade.

    Not defending the decision of the campaign to exclude the librarian (wonder if Laura would have been booted, lol), but there are cases suggesting that the permit holder's First Amendment rights to express its views in the event may trump others, and state law to boot.  It is clearer where the third party seeks to actually participate in the event (like a parade) rather than merely attend, but some cases go farther.    

    Parent

    Sorry, meant period of the event, not parade (none / 0) (#18)
    by riddlerandy on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:36:03 PM EST
    No doubt b-1 is so they can remove (none / 0) (#31)
    by JSN on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:50:43 PM EST
    obnoxious drunks from bars.

    Parent
    Thank You! (none / 0) (#35)
    by scribe on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:59:09 PM EST
    I was arrested at Kerry's 2004 Madison event (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ben Masel on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:37:48 PM EST
    for a "Grow Hemp Save Farms" sign. Technically not in the area they'd been issued a Street Use Permit for, I was on the adjacent sidewalk. A condition spelled out on these Permits "Applicant is not to interfere with normal pedestrian use of adjacent sidewalks."

    What were you charged with? (none / 0) (#22)
    by riddlerandy on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:39:03 PM EST
    Briefly Disorderly. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ben Masel on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:42:27 PM EST
    The DA didn't want any part of it, dismissed at 1st appearance.

    Parent
    That seems to be the pattern (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by riddlerandy on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:44:36 PM EST
    They arrest to get the unfaithful out, then drop the charges.  That is how the federal cases upholding the right of event organizers to boot folks out of their event seem to go.  But given that you were outside of the permitted area, it is even more outrageous.  

    Parent
    So, I guess the police must answer to the (none / 0) (#27)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:44:46 PM EST
    McCain security detail, not bothering to explain the finer points of trespass to them.

    Of course, it was all about the sign, because I was listening to McCain - I assume it was at that same event, but I caught it after it started - taking questions from the audience.  The first person to ask a question was a man wearing a Vietnam Vets hat - McCain selected him because of the hat - but instead of getting what I think McCain imagined would be praise, the man asked why McCain had not voted for the new GI Bill, and why he had not supported increases to VA funding for the previous 5 years, helath care for vets being a major concern what with all the vets coming home from war.

    McCain responded by doing a backward somersault with a half-twist, explaining why Webb's original bill was not good enough, and how he and Graham "fixed" it so now it's just wonderful.  He reeled off a list of veterans' organizations that had backed him for years, talking about his 100% rating - then saying he did not have any clue what VA funding bills the man was referring to.

    He let the man respond - and the questioner offered to list the actual bills that McCain had voted against, and told McCain that he had not gotten 100% ratings and McCain just said something snide like he guessed the organizations did not have the same info this man did.

    Another man, who was apparently filming the Q & A, brought up the trampling of the Constitution here at home, and mentioned the Patriot Act and this FISA compromise bill, and wanted to know how McCain would respond to the Petition for Redress that had been delivered to every member of Congress on June 20th.  Of course, McCain had no idea what he was talking about, but agreed that he would read it and respond.  He went on, though, to express his disdain for those who did not want to give immunity to the telecoms - who, after all, were just coming to the aid of their government in the interest of national security.  He went on to say that no company acting at the request of the government should ever have to fear prosecution.  

    So...the security detail clearly overstepped its bounds, and the Denver police didn't help, but there was no suppression of dissent within the hall, at least based on the couple of exchanges I heard.

    Heh (none / 0) (#30)
    by Steve M on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:48:41 PM EST
    Whatever happened to the theory that Obama was right to duck the town hall proposal because McCain is just so awesome in that format?  He doesn't sound particularly nimble on his feet to me.

    Parent
    He wasn't - but all I had was the audio, (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:59:48 PM EST
    and sometimes that doesn't give you the whole picture.

    Even being clumsy about it, and even though most of what he said was about making himself look a lot better than the reality, these kinds of things show McCain to not be afraid of taking questions from anyone who wants to ask (well, unless you can't get into the event because you have a sign the security detail doesn't like).

    His responses were pretty much the equivalent of "you don't know what you're talking about," and I couldn't help wondering how Obama would respond - would he defend his positions, or tell the questioner he or she made good points, or might be right?  On his own, in that format, I suspect Obama would see an opposing view as a teaching moment, but I'm starting to think that being in a format with McCain might give Obama the shove he needs to start sounding like a Democrat.

    I have a feeling McCain will come out against what happened outside the Center - whether he will mean it or not is anyone's guess.

    Parent

    The point of avoiding the town hall format (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by scribe on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:09:10 PM EST
    (from Obama's perspective) was, at its base, to avoid giving McCain any free media.

    McCain's been having money problems, especially since we are still (officially) in the primary (where McCain's both broke and breaking the law).  If/when both McCain were to appear on the same stage it would be two things, neither good for Obama.  It would (a) be a news event (like one of the intra-Dem primary debates) and therefore likely be covered for free and in its entirety.  It would also (b) be construable by McCain's defense (in the DNC suit to enforce the campaign financing law against him relative to his opt-out, take a loan guarantee, opt-in to public financing scheme, currently ongoing) as either a ratification of his behavior in breaking the law or (more likely) as an admission that the primary part of the campaign is over and thus McCain was no longer bound by the primary season financing limits.  If (b) were to obtain, that suit would be over quickly, rather than being a seeping wound on McCain's maverick image.

    That, and avoiding it also gives Obama both the opportunity to size up McCain more closely and hone up his skills, while depriving McCain of the same practice.

    And, McCain would lie like a rug anyway....

    Parent

    I don't think it's a big deal (none / 0) (#29)
    by GOPmurderedconscience on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:48:34 PM EST
    At this point, people have been kicked out of all types of events in this presidential season.

    I don't see it as a big deal anymore, although I should. Even we, Democrats do not have clean hands in that area.

    Yep (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:58:09 PM EST
    the outrage meter on this issue is shot for me. I wish politicians just had enough guts to let these people be in their events. Obama is just as guilty as McCain on this account.

    Parent
    Ms. Kreck should sue. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:53:11 PM EST
    A big shout out to librarians who stood up against the patriot act.

    I recommend Ms. Kreck sue.

    That librarians stood up against (none / 0) (#42)
    by scribe on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:10:26 PM EST
    and beat the so-called PATRIOT Act was and is, in Republican eyes, reason enough to arrest them.

    Parent
    That's a huge stretch, (none / 0) (#43)
    by pie on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:15:09 PM EST
    Gumby.

    Parent
    You seem to have forgotten (none / 0) (#46)
    by scribe on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:22:02 PM EST
    that a bunch of librarians in Connecticut litigated against, and won, the case which invalidated the secret NSL provisions of the so-called PATRIOT Act (IIRC it was Section 205) - the section that required them to turn over to the FBI anything they wanted on library patrons' reading habits, while being forbidden from telling anyone about it, even their lawyers?

    Librarians have been particular thorns in the Republicans' sides for many years (at least 20 that I can recall) because the librarians and their associations have taken stands for free inquiry, for free access to information and against the government trying to get at what the patrons were reading.  All these were, to Republicans, unacceptably liberal positions which needed to be stamped out.  The section of the so-called PATRIOT Act was only the latest iteration in the Republicans' war against them;  that the librarians won merely infuriated them more.

    Parent

    I haven't forgotten (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by pie on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:25:46 PM EST
    any part of it.

    But it's still a stretch.

    Parent

    Did the (none / 0) (#55)
    by pie on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:33:44 PM EST
    "authorities" know she was a librarian?

    Parent
    New kids on the block.... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Rojas on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 07:11:28 PM EST
    The American Library Association has been speaking truth to power for ~100 years.
    They are oaks.

    Parent
    Looks like she was spot on... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Richard in Jax on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:09:48 PM EST
    I suppose what she wanted was to draw attention to the similarities between Bush and McCain but Ill bet she never imagined McCain would prove it for her. The removal of protesters via law enforcement and the issuance of citations for disagreeing with the leader is quite Bush like. She has made a a scarifice but she sure as hell made her point.

    In all of this (none / 0) (#48)
    by weltec2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:24:23 PM EST
    let us not forget Carole Kreck herself. She was wonnnderful.

    42 U.S.C. section 1983 (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:42:53 PM EST


    Wow..... (none / 0) (#83)
    by Veracitor on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:52:30 PM EST
    It sure didn't take long to turn this into an Obama-bashing instead of the topic at hand.

    Librarians are noted troublemakers (none / 0) (#87)
    by bayville on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 10:02:30 PM EST
    Creck is taking this free speech stuff too far. If she wants to protest, she should either write a letter to the editor or do it in the privacy of her own home.

    I could be wrong, but I believe that is what the Post-9/11 Constitution states.

    the horror, the horror! (none / 0) (#90)
    by cpinva on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 10:39:46 PM EST
    It sure didn't take long to turn this into an Obama-bashing instead of the topic at hand.

    hardly, you wuss! i could give you obama bashing, but it would be low-hanging fruit. just way too easy.

    you might want to find another site, where your delicate feelings won't be bruised, by people opining freely.

    it's the only way to be sure.

    There was a show on TV (none / 0) (#102)
    by Grace on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 02:16:02 AM EST
    It might have been 60 Minutes or 20/20...

    Anyway, part of the show was about this younger generation that has never had to face criticism.  They are used to getting awards for just being themselves!  If they just show up, they get an Award!  

    I have a sneaky suspiscion that this group might be part of the same group one of my friend's sons is in.  She used to go to school and raise holy heck because she didn't want her son learning "Inventive Spelling" and "Inventive Math."  She didn't think it was acceptable that they wanted him to believe that "cre8" spells "create."  She wanted him to learn "real spelling."  It was quite a problem in her household.  Her husband, a cop, also wanted their kid to learn "English" not "wannabe English."  

    Anyway, the idea that one of the Cre8iv Class might confuse "opining" with "bashing" is not hard to understand in this light.  I suggest you just ignore it.  Tell them they got an A and they'll probably be happy.  They have no concept of "opinion" unless it is theirs.  

    Parent

    Way too easy (none / 0) (#114)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 02:05:24 PM EST
    unlike that other fly-ridden cluster, Mrs Kyl-Lieberman.

    Parent
    It Was The Quilted Blazer (none / 0) (#94)
    by Potfry on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:14:39 PM EST
    Cmon.  Everyone knows she was tossed for that dreadful quilted blazer.

    Back to the original subject, (none / 0) (#109)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 11:46:46 AM EST
    The Denver Center for the Performing Arts is a privately owned facility. It is not public property nor a gvt-owned facility.

    As such, the owner or the entity who has lawful control of the facility makes the rules, as long as those rules to not contravene the law.

    If the owner or lawful controller of a piece of private property says you can't use the word "fiddlesticks" on that property and you then use the word "fiddlesticks" they have the right to ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave, you are trespassing.

    It would very much seem that Ms. Kreck was in violation of:

    (a)   It is unlawful for any person knowingly to enter or remain upon the premises of another when consent to enter or remain is absent, denied, or withdrawn by the owner, occupant, or person having lawful control thereof.


    But don't take my word for it: (none / 0) (#110)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 11:55:08 AM EST
    The 1980 U.S. Supreme Court case Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins said the U.S. Constitution does not give individuals an absolute right to enter and remain on private property to exercise their right to free expression.


    Parent
    So the upshot is, (none / 0) (#113)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:57:17 PM EST
    if you dont particularly give a damn about aspiring to democracy and have an overwhelming desire to dictate the "flow of information", buy up as much property as you can and keep working to insure that money = speech.

    Parent
    Uh, sure. Either that or start a blog (none / 0) (#115)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 02:48:56 PM EST
    where you're the moderator.

    Parent
    I can see your point, (none / 0) (#117)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:05:36 PM EST
    especially regarding political events.