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Hillary Camp: Go After McCain, Not Palin

Politico:

Hillary Rodham Clinton has no intention of becoming a Sarah Palin attack dog — but has no qualms going after John McCain, people close to the former first lady say. “She’s not the answer when it comes to winning conservative women — she never was — and we’re not going to be anybody’s attack dog against Sarah Palin,” said a Clinton insider. “To be fair to Obama’s people, they haven’t asked us to do that.”

Slamming Palin to win back women already hostile to Obama is pointless, the insider said, because Clinton’s most loyal base is working-class voters, not women in particular. “Attacking Palin is checkers, attacking McCain on the economy is chess.” Clinton will continue to yoke McCain and Palin to President Bush on pocketbook issues.

(Emphasis supplied.) Everyone got the memo except the Left blogs it seems.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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  • Display: Sort:
    Indeed (5.00 / 7) (#1)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:04:47 PM EST
    In this bizzaro world of 2008, the political professionals have it right, and the netroots "activists" do not.

    Right on target BTD & andgarden (none / 0) (#192)
    by Matt in Chicago on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 09:05:28 PM EST
    Looks like someone has finally gotten (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:04:54 PM EST
    it right!

    On this, camp Obama has been getting it right (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:05:27 PM EST
    Indeed (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by daring grace on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:13:54 PM EST
    And what's more maybe this answers some of the concerns of HRC supporters who worry that she is being 'forced' to do things she doesn't want to do.

    This proves once again she is a savvy pol who will do what she thinks is best for the party and the campaign within the parameters of her own best interests.

    I'm sure that's what the Obama campaign expects from her too.

    Parent

    I think they are on the same page (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:24:45 PM EST
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by daring grace on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:48:34 PM EST
    That was evident at the convention.

    Parent
    I will agree with your first part but... (none / 0) (#173)
    by alexei on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:49:39 PM EST
    not your last sentence.  I do not think the Obama campaign is really on the same page.  Where is Biden?  Why did Obama even address Palin's experience at all?  Obama should only be addressing McCain.

    I believe the Clinton people are showing the right way - it appears that may be the Obama campaign will now listen.

    Parent

    It is plain ... (none / 0) (#207)
    by FreakyBeaky on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 11:31:53 PM EST
    ... from the convention and events since that she isn't forced to support the ticket, she chooses to.  People can say she must do this and must do that, but it isn't true.  That really ought to whack the PUMA narrative that she's been marginalized and dismissed.  I don't think you can take an objective look at what she's been doing and conclude that that has happened - quite the opposite it seems to me ... and if she hasn't been marginalized and dismissed, then neither has her constituency, nor her issues.    

    Parent
    Obama got it right (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:00:33 PM EST
    after his camp got it wrong at first, of course.  That fed the frenzy for hours, until he stepped in -- so I hope his staff got the message this time.  It does not help Obama to have his staff look like he cannot control them or the message.  Too little time left now to fix these mistakes, and each time taking away time that he needs to focus elsewhere.

    Parent
    Don't perpetuate McCain spin (3.00 / 2) (#145)
    by nalo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:59:54 PM EST
    McCain's being called out for it.

    Jake Tapper:

    Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin sent out a fundraising solicitation today that charged that "the Obama/Biden Democrats have been vicious in their attacks directed toward me, my family and John McCain."

    I asked spokespeople of the McCain campaign and the Republican National Committee just which "Obama/Biden Democrats" they're referring to.

    The response I got was that Obama spokesman Mark Bubriski erroneously attacked Palin as a supporter of Pat Buchanan.

    That's it. That's the evidence.

    An attack on Palin herself.

    In other words, they can't name one person affiliated with the Obama-Biden campaign who attacked the Palin family.



    Parent
    Tapper Has Selective Hearing (5.00 / 0) (#151)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:12:15 PM EST
    Or he hasn't had access to a television, newspaper or the Internet since Aug. 29.

    That last statement in his blog post actually means to say:

    "I'm an objective journalist. But I don't interview anyone. I just pick and choose statements and phrases from speeches and press releases, write a few witty comments and hope my readers will fill in the blanks. And I do it all on the dime of ABC News. I'm an objective journalist. Remember that."

    Tapper, Mark Halperin and their ilk, who claim to be journalists but merely are just overpaid bloggers putting soundbytes out there as news, just irk me.

    Parent

    Wrong (1.00 / 1) (#154)
    by nalo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:16:57 PM EST
    That was the official response from the Mcain campaign.  They could not name a single attack on Palin's family after fundraising about "vicious attacks" and "flat-out lies"

    Although if you think Halperin has not been in McCain's corner, hm?

    Parent

    Well that's silly (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:21:56 PM EST
    I don't even have to do a google search to know that Reid's office attacked Palin for being "shrill."

    Bad staff work by the McCain people.

    Parent

    To Be Fair (5.00 / 0) (#166)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:36:28 PM EST
    Both campaigns have a cadre of spokespersons and they are tasked to monitor a whole host of aspects of their own candidate's campaign, and that of the opponent's.

    I have never heard of or seen this particular McCain spokesperson's name in the media before. Tapper may have just picked out someone who was available before he had to post to his blog.

    He might not have been briefed or aware of Palin's statement -- she may not even have been his responsibility or issue of "expertise."

    I've seen the same thing happen in Obama's campaign -- a new name making a questionable statement.

    Parent

    I don't need to do a google either (none / 0) (#189)
    by nalo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:54:19 PM EST
    to know that the Georgia congressman said "uppity", with echoes of codewords in official campaign ads.

    The McCain campaign flat-out lied that the Obama campaign has "flat-out lied" in impugning Palin's family to get huge fundraising from "pro life" people.

    Parent

    I purposely didn't include (none / 0) (#190)
    by nalo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:56:14 PM EST
    the rumor that they are accusing the Obama campaign of spreading to get huge fundraising numbers with.

    Parent
    Ok, the timing here is hilarious (none / 0) (#197)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 09:50:19 PM EST
    Looks like you spoke to soon.  Also reported by Jake Tapper today.

    Parent
    Works better with link (none / 0) (#198)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 09:58:08 PM EST
    "Official Dems" have not attacked (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by rooge04 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 09:59:27 PM EST
    at all.  Only people that speak for them (whether they want to or not): the left blogs, MSNBC, newspapers, etc.   It gets put on the Democrats in general and by extension Obama. That is why it is so dangerous. And why BTD has been warning against it for months.  How these people are Obama's worst enemiese.

    Parent
    Who cares about Mark Bubriki? (none / 0) (#201)
    by Don in Seattle on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:38:14 PM EST
    Pat Buchanan himself identified Palin as a supporter of Pat Buchanan.

    Parent
    Nalo, do not tell me to not "perpetuate" (none / 0) (#204)
    by Cream City on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:44:56 PM EST
    something that is not what I said.

    What I said, I watched and timed myself -- and it was Bill Burton from the Obama campaign.

    Please do not attempt to use my messages to arc off like tinfoil in a microwave to whatever you want to say, no matter whether it has anything to do with what I said.  That is not a reply.  That is a rant.


    Parent

    Isn't that complaint (none / 0) (#208)
    by sallywally on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 11:37:22 PM EST
    a little whiney?

    Parent
    This was supposed to go after (none / 0) (#209)
    by sallywally on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 11:40:19 PM EST
    the bit about Jake Tapper's accusation of vicious stuff being hurled at Palin by Dems.

    Parent
    It has been really hard (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by Steve M on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:07:13 PM EST
    to bite my tongue as people on the blogs demand that Hillary must help Barack to beat up that mean girl.  Sheesh.

    At this point - and I'll refrain from handing out any prizes until we actually see how things go - you have to really appreciate the Obama camp's quiet confidence in the winning message even as the rest of the party screams for them to go in a different direction.  You didn't see this with Kerry.  When the party panicked, he panicked right along with them.

    There was a time before the convention (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:10:05 PM EST
    when Obama was doing a pretty poor job on message. Then they finally started going negative, and things got better.

    Parent
    i don't know. (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:16:01 PM EST
    Obama's camp panicked pretty much out of the gate with Burton's statement.

    I don't think that Obama's campaign has been too smart since they have done nothing to tamp down the stuff coming from the blogs. If it was just staying on the blogs, that would be one thing but it's not. It's getting disseminated far and wide.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 0) (#15)
    by Steve M on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:18:49 PM EST
    They took that statement off the table in like an hour, and have stayed relentlessly on message since then.  Maybe the reason BTD wasn't around for a few days was that the Obama campaign took him on as an advisor.

    As for the overall lack of top-down message discipline within the Democratic Party, I'm a realist.  It's been this way since time immemorial and I don't expect the Obama campaign to work miracles to change it.  Sure would be nice, though.

    Parent

    Ga6thdem likes to harp on the Burton statement (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:22:27 PM EST
    A lot of folks do (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:24:17 PM EST
    Clearly Burton was slapped down on this.

    Parent
    Just (5.00 / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:24:39 PM EST
    pointing out something that people seem to want to ignore. Once it's out there you can't take it back and you've given McCain ammunition to use against you.

    Parent
    They did take it back (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:25:33 PM EST
    basically within the hour.

    You are really kind of obsessed about this.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:28:57 PM EST
    Not (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:30:56 PM EST
    really. I just hate that Obama's campaign handed out a club. Do you think that McCain or the GOP cares that they took it back an hour later? Sheesh. When it's been said, it's out there and will be used to the GOP's advantage. It shows a lack of message discipline from the campaign.

    Don't you think it would have been better to wait and get a good message out than put that one out and then have to take it back?

    Parent

    The club is being wielded only by you (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:32:08 PM EST
    I have not seen the Media or Republicans discuss that statement recently.

    Parent
    Sure (3.00 / 0) (#55)
    by Steve M on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:32:26 PM EST
    It was a mistake.  But the milk hath been spilt.  That's the point.

    Parent
    In you defense, the rapid take back (none / 0) (#138)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:48:51 PM EST
    re Palin reminds me just a leeetle bit of the RFK kerfuffle.

    Parent
    Ga6th holds the Obama (5.00 / 0) (#64)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:36:13 PM EST
    campaign to a very high standard.

    Parent
    You'd (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:40:56 PM EST
    rather have a low standard? Nah, I know how the GOP operates with this stuff. It will be pulled out later for convenient use. I know it's nicer to pretend....

    Parent
    I am not pretending anything (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:51:23 PM EST
    I have just noticed nothing Obama does is good enough for you. Each miss-step no matter how miniscule is the tipping point of the election.

    No campaign in history has been run perfectly.  

    Parent

    Tipping point? (5.00 / 0) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:54:15 PM EST
    Hardly. Just making the point that things you think are gone can come back and haunt you.

    Parent
    It's Not Going To Be That Statement (5.00 / 4) (#121)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:22:53 PM EST
    It doesn't do enough damage to Obama and it makes Palin the focus.  The GOP don't even need it to fundraise, they're already fundraising off Kos over the Palin family stuff, calling them "Obama-Biden Democrats".

    There are two statements, IMO, that are going to haunt Obama until election day and both are infuriating because they are self-inflicted wounds:

    1. bitter-cling and
    2. saying last night that the surge had succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.

    Both were made by Obama, rather than his spokesman. The first hurts on the economy by making it seem like he doesn't care about working class people and plays to the theme of class resentment (which is all the GOP has on the economy) and the second basically endorses one of McCain's arguments for why he should be president.  From Palin today:

    "Senator Obama said that the surge 'succeeded beyond our wildest dreams,' I think said Senator Obama, that that surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated. I guess when you turn out to be profoundly wrong on a vital national security issue, maybe it's comforting to pretend that everyone else was wrong, too. But I remember it a little differently. It seems to me there was one leader in Washington who did predict success, who refused to call retreat, and risked his own career for the sake of the surge and victory in Iraq. And, ladies and gentlemen, that man is standing right next to me -- Senator John McCain."

    So don't worry, it's unlikely the Obama campaign's initial reaction will come back to hurt him.  Last week's frenzy did it's job - it drove the audience for Palin's speech.  Now, it's going to be all about how right McCain is and how Obama hates America.

    Isn't this election fun?

    Parent

    Tell me that obama didn't say that. Please (5.00 / 0) (#128)
    by hairspray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:32:57 PM EST
    I recall when Kerry said "I was for it before I was against it" and other stupid stuff that made me cringe.  I was really worried then and I am now as well.

    Parent
    Your worry is misplaced (5.00 / 0) (#149)
    by nalo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:06:09 PM EST
    Because Obama did not say what you think he said.  And his interview went well and was reported positively by foxnews.com, and multiple newspaper accounts.

    Parent
    And Sarah Barracuda puts the knife in (5.00 / 0) (#132)
    by hookfan on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:37:16 PM EST
    Told ya so.

    Parent
    "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams" (5.00 / 0) (#135)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:46:10 PM EST
    What does that even mean?

    My initial reaction to it is, "Wow Barack, what sort of dreams do you have?" And then, I'm think, "That's sounds so snarky," and I'm inclined to laugh.

    But, the main issue that statement addresses isn't remotely funny. When exactly did he say that, and why? Was this at another California high-rollers, closed-door fundraiser? Mouth. Meet Foot.

    Parent

    He said it to O'reilly (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by hookfan on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:58:58 PM EST
    Okay (none / 0) (#191)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:59:12 PM EST
    I'm cringing over the "surge" statement because Obama didn't vote for it did he?

    Parent
    He did not vote for the surge bill (none / 0) (#196)
    by themomcat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 09:43:54 PM EST
    If this was the vote in May, 2007, he, like Sen. Clinton voted against the bill which passed in the Senate with a veto proof majority.

    Parent
    My my.. a little too defensive of Obama? (none / 0) (#180)
    by alexei on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:03:37 PM EST
    The Republicans are masters at this game and Obama and his campaign had no clue.  The Clintons warned them and now, may be they are listening.

    But every misstep by Obama and his campaign is going to be magnified by the Republicans.  GAthe6th is right - it will be recycled and they need to realize that and do it.

    Parent

    Well, those talking points lived on (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:25:01 PM EST
    and was very similar to come other situations. I don't think there were enough fainting couches in the US for all that needed one  ;)

    Parent
    Lived on where? (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:26:29 PM EST
    MSM through the weekend (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:33:25 PM EST
    some of it was drowned out by other rumors, but the basic talking points were used by those on the Dem side dissin' the choice.

    Parent
    You are taking all the fun out (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:25:31 PM EST
    of it.  How about the Eagleton connection?

    Ambinder

    Parent

    Not one word publically from them (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:26:14 PM EST
    So I am not sure what it means.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:23:47 PM EST
    I think the thing is have they tried? That's the question.

    There sure was a lot of discipline during 2004 that's not there now.

    Parent

    I knew Hillary wouldn't attack her on anything (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:09:07 PM EST
    other than issues and I was pretty sure Obama's campaign wouldn't want her to.

    Has any person ever received this much attention in politics? I can't think of a single one.

    Sadly, my own mother has PDS. I am really uncomfortable even discussing it with her. I can only remind her of the last woman who was attacked unfairly on non-issues and the blow back was and is still pretty bad.

    I won't vote for her but I can see women who don't care as strongly about issues as I do defending her in the voting booth.

    Hillary attacking Palin (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:49:53 PM EST
    would be unseemly.....Palin can't hold a candle to her......Not the intellect, not the experience, not any similar position on the issues.

    Why should Hillary even acknowledge her existence?  

    Let the media do what they will....Obama has to act like a President and getting into a fight with Palin is a bad idea.

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:52:23 PM EST
    Obama needs to convince people to vote for him and tell him why he should be president not just act like one.

    Parent
    Of course (none / 0) (#96)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:00:38 PM EST
    You raise a different point.

    Parent
    Yes, a bad idea that he did start.. (none / 0) (#174)
    by alexei on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:53:04 PM EST
    The Clintons knew that - look at her press releases and compare to Obama's and his reaction to her experience.  He even mentioned her on the campaign trail.  Biden was the first to pick up on how to react - he is the only one who should be dealing with Palin and even then, only in a peripheral manner.

    Parent
    If only. (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:09:40 PM EST


    Fair enough - (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by scribe on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:14:18 PM EST
    I'm done writing about Palin.

    And since it seems... (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:16:51 PM EST
    ...that this year's VP debate will be the most watched in history, it'll be interesting to see how Biden responds to her lies, but more importantly how the press frames the debate.  For my own twisted reasons, I still want just one trick question asked of her about Sunni vs. Shiite.

    Experience (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:39:40 PM EST
    Which is worse being wrong about everything for 30 years or being wrong about everything for 2?

    Because Biden has been wrong on almost everything.  He didn't just vote for the AUMF, he chaired the hearings that built the case for it.  He didn't just vote for the bankruptcy bill, he sheparded it through Congress.  He doesn't just vote for bad drug laws, he authors them.  Repeatedly.  He has a 36% NARAL rating.  He makes racist and sexist comments.  He gave a public eulogy for Strom Thurmond.

    Want to know why the blogs are so focused on Palin because it keeps them from thinking about Biden.  

    This VP debate might be entertaining in a shallow, American Gladiators kind of way, but in terms of who the choices are, it's depressing as all get out. The only thing I'll say for Biden is that he's almost certainly too old to run for President in 2016.  Whereas I think we're going to be stuck with Palin's wrongness for at least another decade (and if not her, then whoever the right's new her is, they always have one).

    I don't want either VP nominee anywhere near the WH.  They both are dangerous people, IMO.  They're just dangerous in different ways.

    Parent

    Hillary knows the score ... (5.00 / 10) (#13)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:17:18 PM EST
    "working-class voters" and "pocketbook issues."

    This is the key to winning the important swing states.

    Absolutely right.... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:18:37 PM EST
    more than anything I think all the weirdos like us who like to write and talk about politics just got tired of b*itching about McCain and now have someone new to b*tch about.  

    McCain has had the nom locked up for so long and has been around forever, what is left to say that hasn't already been beaten to death?

    You might be right! n/t (none / 0) (#123)
    by lilburro on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:24:24 PM EST
    The statement (5.00 / 0) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:20:58 PM EST
    is on the money.

    This is the best thing that Hillary can do. She can't deliver voters for Obama but she might be able to help a lot of the down ticket races talking about issues and campaigning with them.

    I think she can deliver votes for Obama. (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:23:14 PM EST
    She makes his case better than anyone, including him, I think.

    Parent
    She (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:27:47 PM EST
    can't deliver votes, imo, because she's not on the ticket. People are going to have to decide to vote for Obama or McCain. She's excellent at telling people why they should vote for Democrats and that's great for downtickets but the rest is on Obama's shoulders. He's the one that has to deliver.

    Parent
    True, but I think having her remind us what (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:34:04 PM EST
    Democrats stand for and have given us compared to Republicans will help push some on the fence to vote for him. But ultimately, he does have to deliver.

    Her speech (and Pres. Clinton's) helped my family and I'm sure we aren't alone. I have found this constant bashing of Palin gives me flashbacks to the primary and that's not good.

    Parent

    Hillary is out of the picture now (2.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:38:54 PM EST
    The convention was her last stand. I ignore her, and I was a staunch supporter, but unless she speaks as a Senator for NY, she's just another Democrat supporting the ticket.  All she can do is give fund-raisers.

    Parent
    I ignore her -> I adore her? a and b but c n/t (5.00 / 0) (#172)
    by rilkefan on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:43:46 PM EST
    Her "last stand?" (none / 0) (#200)
    by rooge04 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:04:00 PM EST
    Was this a war? LOL

    Parent
    how (1.00 / 1) (#148)
    by borisbor on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:04:08 PM EST
    is her telling people to vote for democrats not help obama win votes? obama's a democrat.

    Parent
    What kind of Democrat? (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by oldpro on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:32:30 PM EST
    It's a really, REALLY big tent...

    Parent
    Your are right that she makes the case much better (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by alexei on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:54:18 PM EST
    But, she can't make people vote for him - he has to make the case and so far, he hasn't.

    Parent
    Hillary right on point as always (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jedimom on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:22:53 PM EST
    right on Hill!! economy economy economy
    I knew Hillary would never do such a thing as attack Sarah Palin, It is as BTD has said counter productive and I hope people strop pushing Palin attacks now. The favorability numbers and the crowd draws in WI for Mccain and Palin today suggest she is enjoying the same momentum we saw in other campaigns this year.

    Economy, our job, number one. that should be their motto.

    Hillary M U S T!!!!!!!!! (5.00 / 6) (#33)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:26:02 PM EST
    (I love these comments)

    It's really sad when I can't tell hate from (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:26:23 PM EST
    snark anymore.

    Awwk. (5.00 / 4) (#39)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:27:08 PM EST


    Unbelievable (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:27:46 PM EST
    Have you paid attention to what the Obama camp is doing?

    Will YOU follow the Party leader? Will the blogs?

    Look in the mirror. We have found the enemy, and it is people like you.

    I do not think (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Steve M on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:33:18 PM EST
    that this guy is for real, although like my dad used to say, "they're out there."

    You must have missed his series of "Kwame Kilpatrick was framed" posts the other day.

    Parent

    Ah (none / 0) (#62)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:33:51 PM EST
    Ok.

    Parent
    Tha'ts a Reply (none / 0) (#70)
    by Fayed X on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:38:39 PM EST
    I updated my comments today and you are right that I was mad.  But there are facts about that case that don't add up to me.  If you could disprove my facts then you should have.

    Parent
    Oooh, a parody! (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by tree on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:28:49 PM EST
    That was snark, right? No one could be that tone deaf, could they?

    yup (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:30:39 PM EST
    Good call.

    The Clintons play rough, but they don't play dirty (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by WillBFair on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:37:46 PM EST
    no matter what Obama or his worshippers might demand. Hillary will do what she can within an educated framework, which people who played the race, age, and sex cards nonstop during the primary would not understand.
    Obama is Biden's boss, not Hillary or Bill's, and they MUST do nothing.

    ROFL (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:38:34 PM EST


    Donna is that you? (5.00 / 0) (#81)
    by jedimom on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:49:54 PM EST
    that is Donna Brazilles email to HRC supporters tagline:

    Stop the Hate!
    ROTFL!!

    Parent

    I posted much the same at Kos yesterday (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by sarany on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:39:05 PM EST
    just for the heck of it and MAN did the boyz ever tear after me in a growling pack...

    I actually found it funny, and just left. No point in trying to talk to them and I won't bother again.

    You'd appreciate this. (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Fabian on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:45:34 PM EST
    Another throwaway diary - McCain=Hillary.
    Not gonna link, because it really isn't worth it, but it's just another diary that makes me think the left blogosphere has no grasp at all of political strategy, marketing or public relations.

    Parent
    Exceptions (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:51:49 PM EST
    The tide of opinion at Big Orange was against the criticism of Palin on personal issues....

    Not everyone was onboard but most were....

    Parent

    I'm still... (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by DET103 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:47:38 PM EST
    ...convinced this is stark. But if you truly are a Hillary hater, congratulate yourself on any divide within the party.

    BTW, so glad BTD is back, he really is the smartest kid in the class.

    Good... (none / 0) (#76)
    by DET103 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:48:02 PM EST
    ...grief...that should be snark.

    Parent
    Says the great divider (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:56:01 PM EST


    The left blogs (5.00 / 0) (#89)
    by s5 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:56:09 PM EST
    I agree that it's smart for the campaigns to not waste their time on her. But the blogger / town square outrage over Sarah Palin will drive donations and volunteer action to the Obama campaign. Right after her speech, I made the largest political donation I've ever given to Obama's campaign, and I suspect I'm not alone.

    I think after the convention glow wears off, the case against McCain / Palin will be very easy to make, and now the feeling of urgency to make that case is there. She may have rallied her base, but she rallied ours even more.

    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:56:48 PM EST
    are you really an Obama supporter or a GOP supporter?

    Theory (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:57:16 PM EST
    First of all - go Hillary!  She's a smart one.

    Second, this plays into a theory I've been entertaining for the last couple of days.  It seems to me that this general has been dominated by four big personalities - Obama, Bill and Hillary and now Palin.

    In a generic match-up, a Democrat beats a Republican overwhelmingly.  Voters WANT to vote for a Democrat, so much of Obama's rhetoric has been trying to convince them that he is that guy.  However, the sale has not been made, resulting in the decrepancies between generic ballot and actual ballot.

    At first, this could be assumed to be because of the lingering tension over the primary.  Hillary voters did not want to go to Obama; they didn't like him and trust him (I'm talking the working class voters her people refer to above).

    However, as time went on, that problem lessened or would have lessened.  McCain tried to keep the tension going, but let's be honest, how long would those celebrity ads generate buzz?  McCain himself certainly can't do it.

    Enter Palin - the eyes of the world are on her (I believe the numbers for her convention speech were almost the same as Obama's).  She did NOT lay out reasons to vote for a Republican.  Instead her job was to remind those Hillary voters, independent voters and moderate Republican voters why they didn't like Obama in the first place - that he didn't understand or respect him, that he was a lightweight, whatever.  Turn him into a foreign and derisive figure to the people he needs.  Continue to turn "the One" rhetoric against him.  Remember how people said Obama couldn't be mocked?  Palin proved 'em wrong.  And anyone who can be mocked can be diminished.

    McCain then comes in and explains to those voters why they can trust him - even if they don't like republicans, they can be assured that he is not the typical republican.  Voters can go for the "reassuring" change represented by McCain rather than the scary "transformational/personality" change of Obama.  (Because, let's face it, his agenda is not revolutionary.  Most of the "change" rhetoric comes not from WHAT he will do but WHO he is and HOW he will do it.)

    Thus, they reinforce the negative about Obama from a fairly compelling and sympathetic figure while diminishing the negative about "generic" democrats.

    I would agree, then, with BTD that the Obama camp should deny Palin any more attention because, despite what partisans think, she is a fairly good attack dog and certainly more "Stars! They're just like US" than Obama (and that's aside from the benefits she brings from rallying the base).

    Focus on McCain but more broadly on REPUBLICANS.  It's the Republican brand that's in the toilet much more than McCain's.  Focus on that (as B. Clinton did so well).

    Sorry (none / 0) (#124)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:25:43 PM EST
    they are diminishing the negative about the "generic" republican by putting McCain's face on it.  

    Parent
    Hillary doesn't *have* to do a goddamn thing (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by BrianJ on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:57:23 PM EST
    Obama spent months accusing her and her husband (you know, the only politically successful Democratic president since JFK) of racism, being over the hill, and God knows what all else on no evidence at all.  He made it clear after the primaries that he never wanted to see her again, and she was happy to oblige.  He has never apologized for any of what he did or said.

    Frankly, were I in Hillary's shoes, I'd be sorely tempted to quote the Simpsons.  Specifically, when Homer got elected Springfield's Sanitation Commissioner, screwed up, and begged his predecessor to return:

    "I'm not much on speeches, but it's so gratifying to leave you wallowing in the mess you've made, you're screwed. Thank you. Bye."

    Missing the point (5.00 / 0) (#157)
    by wincolo08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:24:17 PM EST
    Obama was not my first choice, or even my second choice.  But, there are many important issues which will be dramatically affected by this election, including the makeup of the Supreme Court and the further adoption or rejection of preemptive war as part of American foreign policy.  You are right, Hillary does not HAVE to do a goddamned thing.  But, anyone who would seek to (a) reinstate the ban on torture of prisoners by American governmental operatives; (b) ensure that the Supreme Court continues to view Roe v. Wade as stare decisis; (c) roll back the Bush tax cuts for the rich; and (d) make an actual attempt to deal with the climate crisis, should do whatever they can to assist the Democratic nominee in defeating the McCain/Palin ticket.  Of course, if it is more important to continue to complain about unfair treatment, etc., than it is to further progressive ideals, then by all means Hillary should sit on the sidelines.  I happen to believe she, as a true patriot, cares more than enough about her country to sit idly by while neofascists masquerade as being sympathetic to feminist ideals.

    Parent
    No audience (2.00 / 0) (#175)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:53:59 PM EST
    Hillary lost her audience at the convention.  She's just another senator supporting the Democratic ticket.  Although it's true that when she speaks the media reports it, her words don't have any more impact that another Democratic senator.  There is nothing new she can say to change people's mind.

    Parent
    What??? (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by alexei on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:59:22 PM EST
    You must be kidding?  Is that why every blog I go to and every media outlet is talking about Hillary?  I don't even see Biden mentioned - he's the forgotten man.

    Parent
    Well, that's (none / 0) (#211)
    by sallywally on Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 12:10:13 AM EST
    just not the case. And it's not just Obama who needs her - we all need her, and Bill, and Gore, and Kerry, and Wes Clark, and anyone else who can make the case that Obama seems not able to do on a consistent basis.

    I don't have much enthusiasm for Obama, but I believe it is crucial, especially with Palin in the mix, that a Democrat wins this election, if it takes the whole Clinton Administration to do it.

    So what if it's Obama and not Clinton who is president this time? The rest of the Dems can help him out once he's there. We cannot allow the horrific McCain-Palin ticket to win.

    I'm trying to figure out how I can be a "neighborhood leader" for Obama - well, actually, the Dems - without having to be enthusiastic about him. I'm not good at phony enthusiasm. I'm not all that good at enthusiasm, period.

    But I am enthusiastic about Democrats as described by the Clintons. I think I can make that case (since they've already laid it out for all of us). Not sure how to present support for Obama appropriately in this, though.

    Parent

    Hello? (none / 0) (#210)
    by FreakyBeaky on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 11:45:40 PM EST
    He made it clear after the primaries that he never wanted to see her again, and she was happy to oblige.  

    There was this thing called a "convention" in which nothing of the sort was apparent  - in fact, quite the opposite.  

    Parent

    You might want to think about it yourself. (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by tree on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:58:47 PM EST
    We must be the change we wish to see in the world.

    Mohandas Gandhi

    Last time I looked this was a democracy. (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by tree on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:01:25 PM EST
    No one is required to pledge fealty. If you want someone to vote for you or support you or help you, its best to ask nicely rather than throw a snit fit.

    After Reading All This... (5.00 / 5) (#104)
    by Strick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:08:49 PM EST
    I realize that Hillary could defeat McCain easily.  She's smarter, tougher and ready for the office.

    Tell me again -- why did ya'll nominate what's 'is name?

    His magnificent oratory skills (none / 0) (#177)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:55:32 PM EST
    Goodness! Pls Tell Me You're Snarkin' (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:09:37 PM EST
    because if you ain't, you deserve a good whoopin' upside that empty shell you call a head. What do you expect of Hillary?

    She is no one's servant, and she doesn't owe anyone anything. Not after everything she's done since June 6, 2008. She is the epitome of grace, loyalty and strength. She is the kind of person I aspire to be, and while that will be incredibly hard, I am trying.

    But enough about me.

    Hillary Clinton has done everything that no one in her position ever did in previous election cycles. In fact, she's done a helluva lot more. I did not like it, but she made my pride for her as a supporter swell when she did that whole 'vote by acclamation' thing at the DNC. She has put out statements consistently after every major speech at the RNC this week, practically screaming her support for Obama and backing him up.

    I may not be one, but that woman is an Obama supporter through-and-through. Deal wit' it!

    So Fayed X, sit yo' hysterical butt down and hush up if you really, truly are a BO supporter.

    On mydd the other day someonw was (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by hairspray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:28:10 PM EST
    screaming that Hillary should go after Palin because she hasn't done jacks**t for Obama and on and on.  Actually she has done quite a bit of campaigning (while Obama was vacationing in Hawaii) but its never enough.  But the real issue is that these are very young people who have no historical perspective.  When Hillary supporters wanted a roll call the O camp and supporters became apoplectic. Never mind that most Democrats in the last 40 years (including T. Kennedy) took their fights to the floor with far fewer voters than HRC.  And some never supported the winner and left.  Some of these senators are still in the senate. HRC has bent over backward and if Obama loses it won't be because HRC withheld her support.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:33:30 PM EST
    It's hard to expect those folks to know about things that happened before they were born when apparently they can't remember what happened earlier this summer.

    Parent
    What do you expect (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by LatinoVoter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:03:59 PM EST
    with FPers at mydd like Josh Orton saying that Hillary's response to Governor Palin was "luke warm at best." I particularly like how he mocks HRC supporters in the comments section who tell him that it isn't HRC's job to be the attack dog for the campaign. See here.

    Parent
    Your racism is disgusting (5.00 / 0) (#111)
    by BrianJ on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:11:57 PM EST
    Don't project it onto me.

    If you want me to vote for McCain, I can-  he sure won't need my vote here in Louisiana.  But Obama's failings are all his, and they'd be the same if he were white, black, or plaid.

    projecting...? (none / 0) (#160)
    by laila on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:30:19 PM EST
    I just posted an article that happens to be true how bout this doozy here from politico.com on her stance on Jews.  I think that is interesting.  lol.  
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

    I am sorry but this Palin is someone who needs to be looked at.  I would like to hear this Why'd he tape too.  I just don't believe it at all. This I believe.

    Parent

    Sorry, I didn't mean you (none / 0) (#167)
    by BrianJ on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:36:45 PM EST
    That comment was originally in response to "Fayed X," but when his comments were removed, my comment lost its context.  I definitely do not see you as racist, and apologize if my comment was construed to claim that you were.

    Parent
    Pallin needs scrutiny (5.00 / 0) (#117)
    by irishdem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:20:38 PM EST
    This doesn't mean pesonal attacks, but reviewing her record. All is not so sweet and cozy in Wasilla! She increased tax revenues by 30%, left a 22million defict as well as attempted to fire the town librarian-for not removing books she deemed inappropriate a move which was thwarted by the city council. She also has misrepresented her husband as a commercial fisherman, when in fact he has a plumb job with BP. This was his main source of income. Coincidentally she was on a board for the Alaskan gas and conservation commision- which she was appointed to by Murkowski. Gov. Pallin sounds wonderful but there may be a little more to her story.

    Who Thinks She Sounds Wonderful? (5.00 / 4) (#125)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:27:44 PM EST
    I think she's terrifying.

    But I'm tired of Democrats shooting themselves in the foot with their attacks on her.  They've been counter-productive and have taken the focus off of McCain, the economy, and everything else that should make it a democratic year.

    Parent

    we need both (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by irishdem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:31:58 PM EST
    because she becomes an excuse for some. I agree that the main focus is McCain, but Pallin can't be left alone especially when she is taking pot shots at Obama.

    Parent
    While I don't support her, I do think (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by hairspray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:47:51 PM EST
    there is more to her story than what you say.  I have read that she and her husband owned a fishing business and he fishes all summer. It is excellent revenue in Alaska.  I don't know what you mean by 'plumb job" and so on. Yes she tried to fire the librarian as well as about 4 others who had been supporters of the person who lost. It was a bitter battle, so she didn't think they would support her and frankly I think Bill Clinton should have gotten rid of a lot of Bush I holdovers for the same reasons.  However, the evidence is that she never gave the librarian a list of books to purge, she asked if the librarian would remove books if asked.  So when you say the librarian refuesed to purge certain books, you are wrong.

    Parent
    O/T: CNN Airing Exclusive Interview (5.00 / 0) (#142)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:55:39 PM EST
    With the "Trooper" of TrooperGate in the 8PM hour.

    From the sounds of it, this video may vindicate Sarah Barracuda, at least according to the CNN reporter.


    "The Trooper" says he's (5.00 / 0) (#150)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:11:35 PM EST
    movin' on.  P.S.  He looks like a thug!

    Parent
    Or "Tasergate" As Some Call It... (5.00 / 3) (#155)
    by Strick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:17:17 PM EST
    If this state trooper did use his taser on an 11 year old so "he'd know what it felt like", and coming home drunk one night, threatened to shoot his father-in-law if the man paid for a lawyer for the for his own daughter in the upcoming divorce as the review board found, he deserved more than a 5 day suspension.  That's on top of drinking on duty and numerous other violations of the public trust.

    Heck, any other state trooper and this forum would be screaming for his head.

    Parent

    Here are some RCP national averages (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Bob K on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:56:01 PM EST
     since the start of the Democratic convention. It is only a composite average, but should give an indication. All show Obama ahead, but it looks like he will be behind after the Republican bounce peters out. Around Tuesday if it is the same time-frame as Obama's peak. The combination of the Palin family being smeared relentlessly in blogs and media and then to be seen by the public giving an exceptional performance caused a 3.8 drop in just the last three days. That is huge.
    Mon +1.6
    Fri +3.9
    Mon +4.5
    Tue +6.4
    Wed +5.8
    Thu +4.4
    Fri +2.6
    If having Hillary carry the water for Obama doesn't staunch the bleeding in very short order she would be better used promoting down-ticket candidates and avoid connection with Obama as much as possible because he will be in big trouble.
    There is no excuse for the campaign not being tactically ready immediately when McCain made his choice. They had to know about the possibility of her being selected. Makes me wonder if they dismissed her out of hand. Here is a link to a large list of times she was mentioned as being a viable candidate. Many prominent sites included.
    http://stubbornfacts.us/politics/2008_election/the_myth_that_sarah_palin_came_out_of_nowhere

    Yep (5.00 / 0) (#153)
    by hookfan on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:16:53 PM EST
    Fair warning: if you keep insisting upon uncovering the color or cleanliness of Palin's panties (as in dirty laundry) you will do so to your own peril. You will alienate the working class who will defend her. Ever wonder why Hillary got so much support from the blue collars? 'Cause she spoke to them about their issues and how she would help them to solve them. show the working class respect, let the personal attacks on Palin subside, if you want to win.

    Parent
    you know what i find really amusing (5.00 / 0) (#187)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:47:26 PM EST
    is that at least once a day on this site someone says that most of middle america doesn't read blogs or that it is a tiny fraction of society commenting and reading them, yet there is consistent criticism of the blogs as if they are ruining the chances of the candidates.  

    If that were the case the evil spewed by the right wing blogs and rush limbaugh would ultimately tip the scales toward the demos.  

    The argument that Palin will be perceived as a victim is flat.  Sarah Palin holds extremist religious views outside the norm of most of america.  Sarah Palin has been sequestered from the media and has not answered one single policy question.  America DESERVES to hear what she thinks of the issues and since she is completely not ready to answer any of them we are to accept that she is capable of on the job training and will be ready to serve day one.

    If millions of Americans and millions of democrats think that questioning the credentials and beliefs of the VP of a 72 year old potential president is out of line, than we deserve such a president.

    It is the responsibility of the media to question her credentials and inquire about policy and if they cannot do it, than the blogs can speculate as to whether or not muslims will be deported en masse or arrested and told that Miranda is passe.

    If America's populace believes it is ok that our second in command may believe that the earth is 5000 years old and that prayer will help bring pipelines, than the other half of america should learn to live with it or get off their ass and vote.  

    The race is definitely about 4 more years of the same policies unless McCain passes in office and Sarah Palin assumes the presidency.

    It is fair and necessary to get HER opinions on policy not the data she will be forced to memorize over the next 14 days.  

    Are You Watching CNN? (3.00 / 0) (#11)
    by limama1956 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:16:36 PM EST
    They are not cheering for McCain.

    They are cheering for Palin.

    I even read one blogger who is now saying that he is voting for Palin hoping that McCain will kick the bucket soon after talking office.

    Obama, Biden and Clinton may take the high road and think that they can ignore Palin. I say they do so at their peril.

    McCain unleashed a monster, it is all about Sarah now she spews her lies, distortions and half-truths.

    Obama and Biden need to get ahead of this very quickly. Just ignoring Palin isn't going to be enough.

    Monster? Now you must resign. (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:19:45 PM EST
    I've noticed a few have already (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:21:46 PM EST
    taken all the Hillary Hate and are using the same words on Palin.

    It all looks so d@mn familiar . . . . How long before "She's soooo eeeeeeevil!"

    Parent

    there already (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by jedimom on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:26:08 PM EST
    several commenters here already seem to think she is soo evvvill, sadly. It is hard to put that kind of thing 'back in the can' once it is unleashed, and I feel the Democratic leadership let it run wild to suit their purposes and now it is working against them with Palin. I cant get over how many people just cannot stop harping on her and perceived flaws that make her for them, the worst person ever for VP.

    Parent
    Don't Misunderstand Me (5.00 / 0) (#130)
    by limama1956 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:35:57 PM EST
    I do not say that Sarah Palin is evil.

    But clearly, Sarah Palin has touched some kind of wellspring within the Republican Party. My daughters and I have had long discussions about it. They don't see it. I don't see it.

    Parent

    Not sure that's what the commenter meant (none / 0) (#165)
    by wincolo08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:35:18 PM EST
    Someone can be a "political monster" in that they are unstoppable, or fearsome, etc.  I think we may be jumping to conclusions if we think this is some kind of unfair attack.

    Parent
    let's not forget WWTBQ (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:31:59 PM EST
    sad isnt it (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by jedimom on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:48:46 PM EST
    the WWTSBQ was what first hit me in re the poll on a withdrawal date stories..

    Parent
    yes it is...and thanks for the correction (none / 0) (#99)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:05:04 PM EST
    What does WWTBQ mean? (none / 0) (#112)
    by hairspray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:12:02 PM EST
    and while we are at it, what does IIRC mean? Thanks

    Parent
    meanings (none / 0) (#115)
    by tree on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:16:12 PM EST
    why won't the b*tch quit?
    If I recall correctly

    Parent
    The original was WWTSBQ. (none / 0) (#181)
    by alexei on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:05:57 PM EST
    Meaning, Why Won't the stupid bi**ch quit?

    Parent
    It's No Coincidence (2.00 / 0) (#38)
    by Fayed X on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:26:48 PM EST
    Sara Pallin has numerous civilian rights violations as Governor and the claims against her are right.  This site covered one of them yesterday but the fact is that when there is one there are many.  FACT.  The sooner she starts to tear down Palin the better she will do in the 2016 election after Presient Obamas terms.

    Parent
    Yes, I'm Sure There Are Many Readers (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:29:26 PM EST
    of this blog who would agree that if a person is guilty of one crime, they are automatically guilty of many.  That's exactly what this blog is about. /snark

    Parent
    Show me. (none / 0) (#47)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:29:00 PM EST
    Hillary will be 68 when 2016 comes (none / 0) (#107)
    by hairspray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:10:35 PM EST
    around for a presidential run.  I don't think it will happen.

    Parent
    lol! (none / 0) (#118)
    by Faust on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:21:18 PM EST
    seems to bring out strong feeling (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by jedimom on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:27:52 PM EST
    'spewing lies' seems pretty strong. That kind of thing is permeating the scene and drawing the crowds you saw today to her.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:23:34 PM EST
    Who's they?

    Parent
    Not To Be Nitpicky (none / 0) (#141)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:53:48 PM EST
    But Nobel Prize winner would never have been associated with him if he won the presidency. An Inconvenient Truth wouldn't have happened.

    Parent
    Having read (3.00 / 0) (#146)
    by lilburro on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:03:49 PM EST
    Palin's acceptance speech, there really isn't anything to attack her for - she fills the pretty big charisma gap in their campaign, but her speech was filled with the same lies as always.  She's a good politician but her speech was filled with lies - Obama says he will lower taxes for the middle class, she says in her speech he will raise them.  

    I don't think she said a single thing about healthcare in her speech.  I imagine the Democrats are trusted a great deal more on the subject than the Republicans are - I think Obama/Biden should really bring healthcare to the fore in their campaign.  I think McCain/Palin would be hardpressed to find a single expert who thinks their plan is a good one - and we should remind the country of that at every available moment.


    She sd. if McCain is elected (none / 0) (#152)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:14:22 PM EST
    the parents of special needs children will know they have an advocate in the White House.

    P.S.  Sen. Kerry sd. universal health care is DOA.

    Parent

    apparently she cut funding (5.00 / 0) (#182)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:24:26 PM EST
    for special needs education in Alaska.

    I guess she only empathizes with situations that she herself has been in.

    Parent

    Sorry... (none / 0) (#184)
    by Strick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:31:27 PM EST
    That one's totally debunked.  She cut a huge increase in funding by 20%.

    Check out the photo copy of the funding list at the top of the original article.  Notice the item cut is clearly marked "expansion".  


    Palin "Slashed" Funding for Teen Moms


    Parent

    reread my comment (none / 0) (#203)
    by coigue on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:44:28 PM EST
    I did not mention teen moms.

    However, I did not know that she cut "an expansion" of funding for teen moms....ehat a hypocrite to be pro-life and cut their funding (even if it is an expansion)

    Parent

    Now I'm confused... (none / 0) (#205)
    by Don in Seattle on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:48:25 PM EST
    Since when does "Teen Moms" = "special needs education"?

    Parent
    As far as I can remember (none / 0) (#163)
    by lilburro on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:33:46 PM EST
    that is when Kerry was being a huge tool for the Obama camp - the Harry in Harry and Louise.  If the Obama camp is still in "healthcare is DOA" mode they are really missing out.  Esp. if Palin is going to make special needs advocate part of her political identity.

    Parent
    "Was"? (none / 0) (#183)
    by echinopsia on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:30:00 PM EST
    need a laugh? (2.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:25:09 PM EST
    its on topic

    Very funny (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Steve M on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:31:43 PM EST
    I miss madamab's comments.  She has style.

    Parent
    Thanks for sharing! (5.00 / 0) (#113)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:13:20 PM EST
    That made me laugh so much. A great start to the weekend. 'madamab' has talent! I even left a comment there.

    Parent
    PUMA fan fiction (5.00 / 0) (#116)
    by Faust on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:18:55 PM EST
    that casts Hillary as voting for McCain and Obama as a sniveling suck up is on topic? Good to know.

    Parent
    Hilary is... (2.00 / 0) (#101)
    by laila on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:07:38 PM EST
    Hilary is a class act, she really is, and so is Obama.  Palin not so much...
    http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-palin-is-%E2%80%9Crac ist-sexist-vindictive-and-mean%E2%80%9D/

    In this article...Palin refers to Obama as Sambo, and Hilary as B$%#$...a real "class act"

    I hear 7 of the 10 people who were going to testify in the "trooper gate" are no longer wanting to and have to be subpoenaed.  And to make this worse and I don't know if that is true but supposedly her approval rate has surpassed McCain and Obama...
    So my question is if not attack then what...?  I can never underestimate the ignorance of America.  I was out today at the 5 points train station in ATL, registering voters, and I feel totally discouraged by all of this.  If McCain wins it is going to hurt me really bad.  I almost wish Hilary would attack, but deep down I know it is wrong.

    That crap is no different than the (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Teresa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:22:34 PM EST
    "Whitey" tape or Muslim e-mail.

    Parent
    Sure...that's the truth (none / 0) (#131)
    by demchick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:36:59 PM EST
    riiiiiight.

    Parent
    Video or it didn't happen. (none / 0) (#140)
    by Faust on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:53:44 PM EST
    Tremendous sourcing (none / 0) (#169)
    by lambert on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:38:33 PM EST
    "According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used..."

    I'm with the video or nothing crew. And even that I want the provenance for, after the doctored war room video that the boiz spread far and wide.

    Parent

    McCain's Victory seems to be a strong possibility (2.00 / 0) (#158)
    by democrat1 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:24:25 PM EST
    Do not jump on me. I am a strong democrat and a member of ACLU and proud to call myself a liberal
    and never voted for a Republican President and am not going to vote for McCain.  But the trend seems to be clear and I am almost certain the next four years will be the third term of W.

    That is all because of pettiness of Mr or Mrs Obama in not selecting Mrs Clinton as VP. If only Obamas showed some magnanimity and selected Mrs Clinton,he would have guaranteed a victory for himself and we would not be in this predicament. Then McCain definitely would not have selected Palin and Obama/Clinton ticket definitely would have trounced McCain/VP who ever it is.

    By his pettiness, not only destroyed himself, he also destroyed the future chances of Hillary becoming President and also the future of Democratic party itself.  Now she has to face Vice President Palin in 2012 and it is now any body's guessing game what the future holds for this country's liberal tradition.

    I am very much disillusioned.

    This is all result-directed supposition (5.00 / 0) (#168)
    by rilkefan on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:38:04 PM EST
    "But the trend seems to be clear"

    You probably don't know this, but the Rs just had a convention, and are expected to get a small bounce.  But look at fivethirtyeight.com - the data are strongly on Obama's side.

    Parent

    Heck (none / 0) (#178)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:56:28 PM EST
    the party survived McGovern so it can survive Obama. If he loses this election though, expect him to be persona non grata within the party. And a lot of heads will roll--Dean and his minions and probably some of the leadership.

    Parent
    you kidding? (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:32:49 PM EST
    this is the Democratic party. Only winner's heads roll!

    Parent
    You're right. (none / 0) (#188)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:48:27 PM EST
    It's depressing isn't it? Losers get more power while winners are pushed out.

    Parent
    Good grief. (1.00 / 1) (#110)
    by tree on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:11:11 PM EST
    Look it up. His given name wass Mohandas Gandhi. Mahatma was the title he was given which means "Great Soul" in Sanskrit. I wasn't trying to "sound smart", I was trying t make a point about hate.  I see it went over your head anyway.

    Smart (none / 0) (#32)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:25:49 PM EST
    at least someone is.  

    I think Obama wasn't last week (they did little to stop the blogs and the entire thing felt like a Tier 1/Tier 2 campaign to me).  But I do think that since her speech they have smartened up and seem to be handling it all much, much better.

    I still think it was a mistake not to have an announcement scheduled for today (has there been one that I missed?).  That should've been scheduled awhile ago to try to take away any GOP bounce from the convention.  I don't care if it was announcing that tomorrow is Saturday, they needed something, IMO.  Now they've basically ceded the weekend to the GOP.

    How are they supposed to stop the blogs? (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:28:11 PM EST
    long term it's probably good news (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:31:38 PM EST
    that they can't stop the blogs.

    The bad news is that the blogs are basically fanboy sites now. Not helpful.

    Parent

    Fans should (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:33:21 PM EST
    follow their leader no?

    Parent
    It's easier to create Frankenstein. . . (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:37:42 PM EST
    Maybe, maybe not. (none / 0) (#139)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:52:06 PM EST
    Thinking of OJ, Kobe, and various other sports heros.  

    Parent
    No, fans have no such obligation (none / 0) (#171)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:41:45 PM EST
    I could care less about the Dems strategy. I want to win. They need to come out swinging against her.

    Parent
    I wouldn't call this one a "fanboy (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:33:23 PM EST
    site," not that it helps re Palin.

    Parent
    As with the Hillary hate ... (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:07:54 PM EST
    a lot of Palin hate is too "pigtails in the inkwell" for me.

    Will it end in a kiss?

    Remember many of the so-called progressive blogs have owners and commentators who are former Republicans.

    Parent

    Well, They Could Ask and Mean It (4.50 / 6) (#66)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:37:07 PM EST
    Or they could stop advertising on them or threaten to.  

    Look, all I know is that during the primary there seemed to be an awful lot of coordination between the blogs and the Obama campaign.  There seemed to be an awful lot of people on various blogs who knew the talking points of the day.  The same thing would suddenly be the focus for everyone all at once.  While, of course, Obama would wait 24 hours then give some above-it-all statement that didn't actually stop anything (nor do I believe it was intended to).  

    Last week's feeding frenzy had exactly that same feel to me.  You had this frenzy, then Obama makes one statement above the fray.  Meanwhile the blogs continue to go crazy on it as if Obama said nothing.  And nothing more appears to get said by the Obama campt to stop it.

    I can't prove it, it's just that I watched it happen over and over again during the primary (too many times for it to have been a coincidence) and the same thing happened last week.

    Like I said, I think they realized after her speech that they'd made a mistake.  I think that was what Biden's sudden concern about sexism from "rightwing guys" (riiight, because you know how the rightwing hates Sarah Palin) and focusing on the economy.  

     

    Parent

    Coordination between blogs (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by MS39047 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:47:51 PM EST
    I noticed the same thing regarding the coordination of some of the blogs.  It is what first made me question, "Do I want to support the same candidate that these people are?"

    Parent
    That's why Biden had to step in (2.00 / 0) (#164)
    by lambert on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:35:02 PM EST
    Obama's ineffectual reproofs were viewed, with reason, as "wink and nod" stuff. As I believe it was, in the primaries.

    Parent
    Shorter and more cynical BDB (none / 0) (#161)
    by lambert on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:32:18 PM EST
    Stop paying them.

    If it's not cash, it's access.

    Parent

    A Sister Souljah moment? (none / 0) (#56)
    by tree on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:32:38 PM EST
    The Sister Souljah Moment (none / 0) (#87)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:55:26 PM EST
    cannot be repeated. Ever. That's just my opinion. Anything that is tied to it will be like a counterfeit product. The SS-Moment is/was one of those things that are indicative of the period in time when it happened, and any attempt to recreate it would be foolish and way to obvious.

    IMO, Obama's had more than a couple SS-like Moments to even try his hand at something remotely close to the actual thing now. The SS-Moment lexicon and its power will always be WJC's and no one can take it away from him. But, I have faith that Obama will think of something that he can uniquely call his own too.

    Parent

    I've been hoping since forever the Obama camp (none / 0) (#44)
    by WillBFair on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:28:24 PM EST
    would come out swinging on policy. And I was thrilled to see the last part of Biden's convention speech.
    On the other hand, the media can install anyone they want, and I only pray that big corporate interests have decided to quit neo conservatism in favor of the Clitnon policy agenda.

    Well, I'm Glad Politico (none / 0) (#73)
    by JimWash08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:45:00 PM EST
    spent a little time, albeit right at the bottom, about how Hillary deserves to (and needs to) take some time out to see to her own interests too. Just because she gave him a full-throated endorsement, and then some, should not mean she's obligated to him and cannot look out for herself too. Nice job, Hillary!

    The former first lady, who is due to appear at an Obama event in Florida on Monday, hasn't gotten back to them yet. When she does, she's likely to add a few stops of her own -- fundraisers, including at least one in Texas to help her repay more than $20 million in debt incurred during the primary.

    Extremely OT, but I recall BTD is in Puerto Rico right?
    Well I just want to give a shout-out to him and hope he's way out of the way, wherever he may be, of Hurricane Ike.

    The satellite pictures of him (Ike, not BTD) aren't a pretty sight. Take care Mr. Armando!

    You didn't get my memo on Frank Gorshin? (none / 0) (#93)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:58:18 PM EST
    You know, his Emmy winning performance on the original Star Trek....faces half white and half black....never mind...

    I have been an Obama supporter since Iowa....Hillary is trying to help....I would rather not it turn out she is trying to run in 2012 against an incumbent President Palin....but dissing Hillary and her supporters may get us there....  

    "negative" versus "NEGATIVE" (none / 0) (#100)
    by dws3665 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:07:14 PM EST
    I think andgarden is correct - the Obama camp has gone negative, by tying McCain to Bush ('third term'). That is negative, in contrast to simply reiterating the positive messages of the candidate (hope, change, sensible taxation, sensible foreign policy, etc.). It IS negative to say bad things about your opponent. That is in contrast to smearing your opponent, which is mainly what happened at the GOP convention - telling untruths about your opponent or distorting his record to make him/her look bad.

    Negative campaigning works and is necessary. No one in this post was calling Obama dishonest or a dirty politician.

    No (none / 0) (#103)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:08:11 PM EST
    That's an honorific - like "Lord", "Doctor" or "Mr".  Mohandas is his first name.  

    I kind of don't think you are a real person.

    Snort (none / 0) (#114)
    by dws3665 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:15:58 PM EST
    They are the same person, Fayed. Except that his last name has an "h" in it after the d.

    "Mahatma" is an honorific, sort of like "the Reverend."

    What left wing blogs most (none / 0) (#202)
    by frankly0 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:41:56 PM EST
    basically don't seem to get is that the single most powerful thing Palin does for McCain and the ticket at this stage is to make voters feel that she and McCain are being unfairly treated both by the media and the left.

    If voters merely thought that Palin was competent enough to be VP, with some genuine personal assets, and a pretty good choice for McCain, it would actually do McCain only a little bit of good. I think most voters realize that she is only marginally qualified to be VP, at best, and also realize that her ideology overall is pretty unattractive to them. Her appeal is pretty much inherently self limiting: I mean, she apparently doesn't think that abortion even in the case of rape or incest should be allowed? There would appear to be any number of radical positions she holds that would prevent large segments of the population from ever supporting her.

    But, even though her appeal is inherently limited on her own merits, the thing she most definitely going for her is a powerful feeling of sympathy because of the vicious attacks on her. This sympathy factor extends well beyond the set of people who would otherwise be inclined to support her. People from all persuasions detest seeing someone unfairly and viciously attacked, even when they find a lot to disagree with in the person who is being attacked. The sentiment is: I profoundly disagree with you, but I will absolutely defend your right to assert your views without being smeared.

    And it's the media and the left wing blogs who are propelling those vicious attacks on Palin.

    I don't get what drives them crazy about Palin, when she might otherwise play a relatively minor role in the campaign if they simply left her alone, and gave her her due.

    Really, these people are in need of an intervention.

    Just one further piece of advice (none / 0) (#206)
    by frankly0 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:55:40 PM EST
    to left wing blogs:

    When you've dug yourself into a hole you want to get out of, first thing is, stop digging.

    Parent

    Krugman had a good column today (none / 0) (#212)
    by sallywally on Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 12:33:18 AM EST
    on the Repubs' politics of resentment. I don't know how to do links or I would....

    You gotta wonder (none / 0) (#213)
    by glennmcgahee on Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 06:18:32 PM EST
    why Hillary is expected to do the heavy lifting for a candidate who pretty much said he has no respect for her and she and her husband have had to endure the racist accusations from Obama supporters and the heckling that continues to this day.Beleive me, we Clinton supporters are getting more disgusted by the day. We've been treated badly by his campaign, insulted more than once and it continues. Is this a way to get "unity"? Palin is Biden's problem. If he can't handle it, maybe Obama should have chosen someone else. I wonder who that might have been? If she works for down-ticket democrats, she's done enough for the party that spit on her. I frankly, wouldn't blame her if she sat this one out but she classier than I am.