‘Is there anybody on the stage that does not believe in evolution?’
Ideally, every presidential debate would be filled with substantive, policy-oriented questions about the most pressing issues of the day. There is, of course, a downside to this: candidates are prepped with rehearsed and predictable soundbites to these questions, and for the most part, in a primary debate they’ll all say the same thing. To actually learn something interesting about the candidates, an occasional off-the-wall question will tell us something we didn’t already know.
Last night, for example, John McCain was asked a straightforward question: Do you believe in evolution?
It’s the 21st century and McCain is an educated man, so it should have been a fairly easy one. But he’s a Republican, and he needs to appeal to a far-right base that has little use for modern science — so he hesitated. After a pregnant pause, McCain said, “Yes.”
The Politico’s Jim VandeHei opened it up to the stage. “I’m curious, is there anybody on the stage that does not agree — believe in evolution?”
The camera didn’t show the 10 candidates for very long, but three would-be presidents raised their hand: Sam Brownback, Mike Huckabee, and Tom Tancredo.
First, this tells us that nearly one-in-three Republican presidential candidates reject modern biology. I’m trying to decide whether it’s bad news (that the number is so high) or good news (that more of these guys didn’t raise their hand).
Second, McCain’s straightforward answer was encouraging, but it was also inconsistent with some of his other recent comments on the subject.
In February, for example, ThinkProgress noted that McCain was the keynote speaker for the Discovery Institute, the most prominent creationism advocacy group in the country. At the time, he neglected to mention that he believes the group is wrong.
That’s possibly because he hadn’t yet decided how he’d come down on the question. Keep in mind, last summer, McCain appeared at an Aspen Institute discussion, where he tripped over himself trying to explain his position on science in science classes, saying intelligent design creationism does and does not belong in public schools. (A former McCain aide acknowledged, “[H]is heart isn’t in this stuff…. But he has to pretend [that it is], and he’s not a good enough actor to pull it off. He just can’t fake it well enough.”)
But he keeps trying anyway. As TP added, in 2005, McCain endorsed intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite, and a few months later, he said both.
Last night, he finally gave a straight answer, which was good to hear — at least until he changes his mind again.
As for the bigger picture, I’m curious how the response to the question last night will affect the religious right. Will the base look askance at candidates who reject creationism? Will Brownback, Huckabee, and Tancredo get a second look because they reject modern biology?
And Rudy was both pro-evolution and pro-choice last night…
I think more pertinent questions would be:
“Is there anyone on stage who believes The Rapture will occur during your presidency?”
“Is there anyone on stage who believes God told you to run for the presidency?”
“Is there anyone on stage who believes that the Christian Bible should be the primary source for policy in US government?”
Seriously, I’d like to know.
those three men must also believe the world is flat.
Moronic dinosaurs.
Have fun in the tar pit, guys.
After reading about this debate of the white men, I am more convinced than ever that we (Democrats/liberals) are SO in the majority. Hello 2008!
30% evolution denial is, if I recall the latest polls correctly, lower than the nation at large.
Then again, people answer questions differently when the cameras are on.
The way I see it, three raised their hands, the rest dragged their knuckles.
chrenson wrote: “I think more pertinent questions would be:
“Is there anyone on stage who believes The Rapture will occur during your presidency?””
This is so appropriate, considering Bush couldn’t give a straight answer on this question when he was asked.
On the other hand, the fact that so few raised their hands in the primaries when courting religious nuts is paramount means there’s less enthusiasm for forced indoctrination of Creationism than aboloshing abortion.
There is NO dumber question than “Do you believe in evolution” because evolution is NOT a belief, it’s a theory. It’s like asking if you believe in gravity.
You guys are accepting the righty frame, along with EVERY blasted blog on the planet, parroting this stupid question.
I checked with the National Center for Science Education
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2007/US/20_a_new_creationismevolution_po_4_4_2007.asp
They noted a Newsweek/Gallup poll just last month that had 48% of Americans taking the anti-evolution position.
Therefore, if the GOP candidates represent the average American (which they don’t), we should’ve seen 4 or 5 raise their hands, assuming we can assume they were being honest (which we can’t).
Time to recycle the words of Clarence Darrow spoken to William Jennings Bryan at the Scopes Trial…..
“We have the purpose of preventing bigots and ignoramuses from controlling the education of the United States.”
“the anti-evolution position”
Seems like if you’re anti-evolution you are sort of proving your own point. Kind of like saying “Evolution my ass! Lookee how un-evolved I am!!!”
Believe it or not the “Cristian Right” that does believe in creationism is really not that large of a group in spite of the money they have to donate.
McCain just doesn’t get it. He’s stupid. He follows the General George Custer, George Bush War Plan. Slap ’em across the face and they chase you right into an ambush shooting gallery called a civil war and they keep you in the ambush with a slow escalation splurge which divides and bankrupts your country. And here’s McCain all ready to do it all over again saying how he’d chase Bin-Laden down and kill him. He just doesn’t get it. Bin-Laden has already won this battle and sits back laughing at this McCain mentality while McCain is pounding his chest. So easily manipulated.
All these candidates need handlers. I totally agree and the point cannot be shouted loudly enough that “chrenson” makes in the above comment. Those are the questions I want them to answer…the ones where we would be afraid of the answers.
Saw the movie ‘Saved!’ last night for the first time. Quite funny and cutting at times. Loved the ‘creationism’ timeline hanging in the back of one of the classrooms.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again…most Americans (51%?) accept evolution as fact, however they still believe it God. It reflects a belief held by many scientists, including Newton:
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done.”
and Einstein:
“I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”
When the right wing-nuts and evangelicals or for that matter, some of the far left lefties, attempt to divide science from God, they are acting in a manner that is antithema to most Americans. They want their cake and to eat it, too.
kali… Does that mean you would’ve voted for William McKinley over Bryan in 1896? Or maybe you would’ve supported Seymour F. Norton against Bryan for the Democratic nomination.
Set the wayback machine, Sherman!
Taking a step back, McCain cuts something of a tragic figure. He was once an honorable, hard-working public servant. But he’s so obsessed with becoming president, and placating the far-right base in the process, he completely lost his self-identity, his core values, everything that made him interesting in the first place.
Bugboy beat me to it. One does not “belive” in Evolution. Stupid question but concidering the audience for the answers….
The question, “do you believe in evolution,” is worded imprecisely that even the most ardent Young Earth Creationist could have answered, “yes.” Evolution can be broken up into microevolution (evolution below the level of species) and macroevolution (evolution above the level of species). Just about everyone accepts microevolution because changes can be easily observed by even a layman from one generation to the next. What the Creationist crowd doesn’t believe is macroevolution, where a species splits into two or the change in species over time from one to another.
Better questions would have been, “Do you accept macroevolution as a valid scientific theory?” or “Do you believe that all life on Earth shares a common ancestor?”
Now that I’m thinking about William Jennings Bryan, what I really want to hear at the next debate is the question: Do you believe in bimetallism?
Grumpy…let’s return to the Gold Standard!
I come down on the side that it’s good news that only the most predictable three of them said they don’t believe in evolution. Watching the Republican party become more and more looney is both fascinating (how far can they go?) and horrifying (how far can they go?) simultaneously. These people are far more dangerous than any Islamic fundamentalist anywhere in the world, because they have access to controlling the levers of power of the most powerful state in the world.
This evolution bit is getting old. How many believe in gravity? I understand there is some controversy on the subject, promoted by those who believe that god holds everything down with invisible rubber bands. That’s why when you pick something up and let it go, it snaps right back to the ground. It’s also why we have to stop NASA from sending things out into space — they’re stretching god’s will and endangering people in heaven with flying debris and shit.
Grumpy asked:
kali… Does that mean you would’ve voted for William McKinley over Bryan in 1896? Or maybe you would’ve supported Seymour F. Norton against Bryan for the Democratic nomination.
To which the answer is “Yes.” To both. Bryan came into the 1896 Democratic Convention and gave that demagogic “Cross of Gold” speech and swept everyone off their feet. He was a gasbag whose only talent was his demagoguery. When he was allowed into government under Wilson, he quickly demonstrated his complete ignorance, incompetence, and lack of ability. Had this moron ever become President, George W. Bush would still not qualify as Worst President Ever.
beep52 wrote: “How many believe in gravity? I understand there is some controversy on the subject, promoted by those who believe that god holds everything down with invisible rubber bands.”
No, no no; The Onion covered this over a year ago – the theistically proper theory is intelligent falling:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512
beep52 wrote: “How many believe in gravity? I understand there is some controversy on the subject, promoted by those who believe that god holds everything down with invisible rubber bands.”
A nerdy footnote: Actually, your gravitational theory is more respectable than creationism, because at least it is falsifiable: I can demonstrate that the gravitational force doesn’t follow the behavior of a rubber band.
In other words, even sarcastic mockery of creationism doesn’t come close to the true stupidity of creationist ‘science’.
The fact that 51% of the American people accept/understand the ToE should not necessarily predict the number of candidates that do the same. It has also been shown that the higher one’s education is, the greater chance that s/he accepts Evolution.
We must hold presidential candidates to a higher standard. The fact that 30% do not accept ToE indicates that some need a little more ejgamakashkun.
(with apologies to Popeye)
I loved that the Republicans had their own old coot up there (the congressman from Texas, I forget his name), like Mike Gravel, who started throwing out all sorts of old world gems like “let’s abolish taxes completely” – heck, not even a flat tax.
Then he was opposed to the Iraq war because he wants to go back to complete and utter isolationism.
Great stuff. I could listen all day.
I also found it amusing/ironic that, as I listened to the debate and how God controls their lives/destinies (I wonder which one God really wants to win), I was reading “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins…..
re: gg and the Onion article of Intelligent Falling @ 26
Thanks for bringing this article to my attention. Intelligent Falling is indeed an elegant manifestation of the Grand Unified Theory of Jesus. (Normally I don’t visit such godless sites but the lord works in mysterious ways, does he not?)
I agree with Bugboy, evolution is a scientific theory and “belief” in Evolution is irrelevant. Belief is based on opinion not fact.
In comment 16, Gridlock said:
“I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again…most Americans (51%?) accept evolution as fact, however they still believe it God. It reflects a belief held by many scientists, including Newton:…”
Not so. The important revolutions in evolutionary theory took place a couple of centuries after Newton lived. He certainly had no knowledge of Darwin’s discoveries, and so we cannot say that he accepted evolution. He likely did not. 🙂
Brian
I went through the public school system and a Christian college and came out accepting macro-evolution and “scientific naturalism” as probably true. The more studying I do on my own (reading both sides of course) the more I am seeing the scientific acceptability of Young Earth Creationism. I hope you all will be as fair-minded and do the same. Let’s not allow our predispositions to affect our rigorous study. To say as one evolutionist has, that “I believe in evolution because believing in a Creator God would violate my sexual mores” is “flat-earth thinking” at its worst.
Atheists don’t need some invisible being to explain the unexplainable. Even if you need a “God” to soothe you into believing the universe is not simply a “by chance” happening, you should at least be able to admit what science has already proven – that biblical stories of creation are just that – stories.
Much like the fairy tales of Santa Claus that we tell children to make them behave, religious books from any religion are just ancient man-made stories, fables, and laws to be used as a guidline for controlling civilizatons and instilling fear of fire eternal damnation for those who don’t buy into them and eternal life for those who do – Both nice concepts (hell if your “bad”, heaven if your “good”), but as childish, believable, and proven as the existance of Santa Claus.
The sooner the whole world faces and accepts this true and basic reallity of life, the sooner we can quit arguing about such proven scientific facts as evolution, as well as the existance of the spirits, ghosts, and demons in any of these fairy tales – Not to mention how much easier it would be for the people of the world to live as a brotherhood of beings rather than as factions of religious bigotry and hatred.
When someone proves to me that they, or any man who ever walked this earth, has seen, touched, or spoken to anyone or anything outside the realm of our physical existance – I’ll buy into any of the other fairy tales you want to sell me. Until then, I don’t want to hear about any of your “religious” delusions – escpecially from politicians.
I would not vote for a candidate who was so ignorant about the Holy Scriptures, that he actually believes in evolution. I just found your article today 1/8/08, and Fred Thompson was not running at the time it was written – I wonder what his vote would be. However, since Huckabee is the only viable candidate, he has my vote!
Oh Sandy, you are the reason why this country is so ridiculously scientifically illiterate. I mean really, you have a problem with someone who is ignorant about a BOOK and therefore believes in a repeatedly proven and tested scientific theory? That frightens me more than almost anything else.
I would like to say that, say there is evolution that makes no difference that still does not mean there is no God no matter what people will always believe in god no matter what scince finds main reason is what other way can we save the ones we love i dont know about you but i could never never except my son my best friend dies and my love for him is for nothing think for a minute what do the words mean evolution means things change maybe not from monkeys to people but change and God means love and we get to live forever why not take the chance how much longer is it before you die remenber your world will be shaped by the way you difine your words