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MIT Students Develop Solar Dish Hot Enough to Melt Steel

insidetech.com — The MIT team believes that their lightweight, inexpensive device holds the promise of revolutionizing the power industry and providing solar power to even remote regions.

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gavinhudson 48 days ago, made popular 47 days ago

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hiPpymIck, on 07/19/2008, -1/+9theres solar thermal in Phase IV (1974)

tho in that case it was superintelligent mutant ants
building a series of towers with mirror surfaces
that they used to fry a bunch of scientists
in the Arizona desert
who were trying to fight them

its actually a good movie - very visual and thoughtfully understated IMO
http://www.answers.com/Phase+iv?cat=entertainment& ...
- rebotfc, on 07/20/2008, -0/+4Man that film scared the bejesus out of me when watching it as a kid. Great movie thanks for reminding me.
- mugicha, on 07/20/2008, -1/+13Was that a haiku?
- hiPpymIck, on 07/20/2008, -1/+2..i must be a poet
  
  and i dont know it
wonderchemist, on 07/20/2008, -0/+27If you have an old TV, you can make one yourself: http://www.xenotechresearch.com/solfurn1.htm
- cryonix, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1ha ha I have one of those from a few years back. Thought it was the coolest thing ever. Every summer we bust it out and melt stuff. Though its all scratched up and weathered, it can still melt some metals.
- floorman56, on 07/20/2008, -1/+3Mother Earth News had plans for this as far back as 1979
  Me wonders if some MIT student is better at looking up old plans than coming up with new designs
  http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/19 ...
  - Shogi, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Planning and doing are two very different things.
  - kd1s, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2A lot of technical innovation is comprised of taking the existing art and coupling it with something else to make a new device. Look at the telephone, that took the principles of electromagnetism and turned it on its head.
    
    It took some time for material technology to catch up and that is precisely what the MIT student took into account.
    
    I remember when an office I work at got a portable display system. It was essentially a lightweight aluminum tube setup that had a curvature from which I could derive focal point. I realized that if this sucker had a mesh or metal background I'd have one hell of an antenna, all the MIT guys did is figure out that mirrors would let you use something higher up in the EM scale.
  - frontporsche, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2The MIT research was about how to do this economically, not about reinventing a parabolic reflector.
  - samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2The MIT design is a refined version of that idea. It's more lightweight, cheaper, and easier to assemble.
Elliottx, on 07/20/2008, -3/+29I wish MIT would stop stealing my ideas. I swear if they invent my rocket skates I'm gonna bust a nut.
- CriX, on 07/20/2008, -1/+7"bust a nut" means ejaculate .... just an fyi
- je12u, on 07/20/2008, -0/+7I don't think "bust a nut" means what you think it does
- nejk, on 07/20/2008, -0/+0LMAOOO www.urbandictionary.com dont embarrass yourself ;]
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+6So you're a masochist who gets off on people stealing your ideas?
- gcnaddict, on 07/20/2008, -1/+1Something tells me op got owned.
- Elliottx, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2I know what it means...
  
  Now if you'll excuse me I have to go and bust a move...
Regulator980, on 07/20/2008, -1/+8This is a highly refined version of this:

http://www.solardeathray.com/
- Harbinger67, on 07/20/2008, -4/+2Mythbusters tried that. Twice. Doesn't work.
  - dgendreau, on 07/20/2008, -3/+13It didnt work because the mythbusters are dumbasses. They didnt focus it properly.
  - FutureGuy, on 07/20/2008, -1/+6MIT 1:Archimedes 1:Mythbusters 0 they couldn't get wood to catch fire, forget melting steel.
SniperZero, on 07/20/2008, -1/+5Now only to put this on my front lawn and stop the fkers driving passed throwing *****.
- ozziegt, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2What I want to know is what happens when a bird flies past. Does it turn into a flaming fireball of death?
  - samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2You get a mid day snack of roast pigeon.
Babblin5, on 07/20/2008, -2/+4But will it cook a hot dog... that's all I want to know...
- ProductNumber01, on 07/20/2008, -3/+2But will it blend...that's all I want to know...
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2You put a hot dog in the hot spot and it'll probably explode.
XchrisX, on 07/20/2008, -0/+4Put on a heavy duty heatsink, coupled to a few efficient Stirling engines driving a generator, and you're off the grid!
- floorman56, on 07/20/2008, -5/+3until the sun goes down
  - dgendreau, on 07/20/2008, -0/+15If only we had the technology to store energy up during the day and use it later at night. Damn. You're right. It would never work...
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+3Nah, they have a fluid coil in the hot spot. Cool fluid goes in and steam or super heated fluid comes out. If you run something with an extremely high heat density through there, like some kind of oil, you could use that to heat up a large, super-insulated tank of heat storing material which is where you put your Stirling engine. If the heat bank could store enough heat to keep the Stirling running through the night, then you'd have a very efficient 24hr solar electric generator.
- kzgagne, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Anybody know where I can get a stirling engine?
  - samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1I haven't seen a sizable, affordable, commercially available Stirling generator. Dean Kamen, the Segway inventor, is working on one right now.
    
    http://www.whispergen.com has some good looking designs, but I'm not seeing any pricing.
    
    http://www.infiniacorp.com/applications/clean_ener ... does make a solar collector with a Stirling at the focal point.
dvicklund, on 07/20/2008, -2/+37Sounds fantastic until you accidentally wave your hand through the focal point.
- timmylil, on 07/20/2008, -1/+16and then it's hilarious.
  - hazard99, on 07/20/2008, -1/+3Do it and post a video on break.com
    
    You'll win $200 and a Darwin Award.
  - gavinhudson, on 07/20/2008, -0/+7Hm... my hand or $200...
- brad3378, on 07/20/2008, -0/+11If this could be used to melt steel, then it could also be used to melt aluminum.
  
  The point I'm trying to make is that maybe this could support the hydrogen economy?
  There's some really cool stuff going on right now with an alloy of 95% Aluminum 5% Gallium that safely releases Hydrogen gas in the presence of water. The result of the reaction converts the aluminum to Alumina which must be refined back into the Aluminum/Gallium alloy to be reused - and this requires massive amounts of heat.
drape, on 07/20/2008, -1/+12Rhetoric.... that idea existed since Archimedes!
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2The innovation is the affordable and easily constructed design, not the fact that you can fry ants with focal points.
Fluffycheese, on 07/20/2008, -1/+3So the materials to build to array are cheap and easy available, but i'm guessing to ones required to track the sun are not.

How I long for the day green tech doesn't require some sort of new innovation to make it viable - viable in the kind of way i can buy one for myself...
- qwertydvorak, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2here is your tracker. diy even...
  http://www.redrok.com/electron.htm#led3
  - samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -1/+11. 2N2222 NPN transistors $0.84
    2. 2N2907 PNP transistors $0.84
    3. 750 Ohm 1/2 W resistors $0.12
    4. 47 KOhm 1/4 W resistors $0.12
    5. 100 KOhm 1/4 W resistors $0.12
    6. 22 nF capacitor $0.08
    7. LEDs Green Lumex SSL-LX5093LGT $0.24
    Total = $2.36
    
    Yup. That would raise the price of the final product by a bazillion dollars. Best if we just poopoo the idea of any innovation now and keep these uppity scientists in their place. I mean hey, that doesn't include the motors. Motors cost, what, $10? Woah-ho! Get back Daddy Warbucks!
- bpoteat, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not?
  Solar trackers are fairly common and used in many types of applications, certainly not a new innovation. The control system required to keep something like this pointed at the sun would not be that difficult. The feedback is nearly binary - it is either generating a LOT of power or it us generating very little.
khail250, on 07/20/2008, -2/+5if you get a large enough telescope it will melt steel quite faster than this due to its super precise optics, that concentrate a 1m, 2m etc mirror to a point that is microns in diameter, this will melt steel, or adimentium in a heart beat ;)
- kh99, on 07/20/2008, -3/+3Yeah, I think this is another case of the article missing the point. The point is not that they can melt steel but (I think) that they've found a clever design which makes it easy to build and get the mirrors aligned.
- frontporsche, on 07/20/2008, -1/+1Good luck finding a 1m mirror with a focal length of 0.2mm -- the focal length you'd need to focus the sun to a point that's a couple microns in diameter.
unknownohm, on 07/20/2008, -2/+27finally a green way to cook crack
- om3ganet, on 07/20/2008, -1/+3You mean vaporize?
  - jb0nd38372, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Isn't that preferred way to smoke it? Vaporized.
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2You'd lose a perfectly good pipe that way.
dildoolielly, on 07/20/2008, -4/+17Unfortunately it will probably not revolutionize the power industry and providing solar power to even remote regions but instead be used by the American Gov't to devise new weapons and sell them to unstable countries.

Too bad students
- bpoteat, on 07/20/2008, -0/+5Too bad for students? Who do you think funded the research?
  :)
  - dildoolielly, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1--------Who do you think funded the research?-------------
    
    Uh, the tax payers?
    ;)
SarahC, on 07/20/2008, -1/+14"However, parabolic collectors are still a relatively new field of research. Their true potential remains relatively unknown."

Bull!
Archimedes did these, and people have been experimenting with them for years.
There's solar furnaces all over America heating water already.
How come MIT's getting all the attention?
- localzuk, on 07/20/2008, -2/+3Most research energy in this field has been put into photo-voltaics. So, in terms of amount of time actually working on parabolic collectors, it is a relatively new field of research. (The key word here is relatively).
  
  Random numbers:
  
  If 1000 man years have been invested in PV, and 10 man years in PC but PC had been around, as an idea for longer, it would still be relatively new field of research...
  - zarex, on 07/21/2008, -0/+1That is completely untrue. Far more work has been put into using the heat energy to drive turbines and such. You're 100% wrong.
mark101, on 07/20/2008, -1/+7instead of burning wood and dung, could a small village use one of these to cook food and sterilize their water?
- hiPpymIck, on 07/20/2008, -0/+3http://www.sunoven.com/villager.asp
  
  or make your own..
  http://www.solarcooking.org/plans/default.htm
- GeorgeStone2, on 07/20/2008, -1/+1Poor starving africans... We have to stop them from polluting!
  Brb, Just getting into my 10mpg SUV..
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Using this to turn water to steam and then collect it back down to water again would be a snap. Just feed cold water in and on the output side, run it through a bunch of copper tubing like you see on a moonshine still. With a little water pump on the cold side, you could boil a whole swimming pool in short order.
Jarasmen, on 07/20/2008, -7/+2That's cool, but I don't really see this thing being used in practice, not to mention industrial scale. Would be nice if solar power finally cought on though.

Yay, my 600th comment wooo.
jimmoses, on 07/20/2008, -7/+41It's
A
Focusing
Mirror.

Next up: MIT boffins invent revolutionary circular transport device!
- DoogieHowitzer, on 07/20/2008, -3/+9Seriously... Some profoundly revolutionary things have come out of MIT research. This... isn't one of them.
  - CCSprinter11, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1I agree. I've done this plenty of times. I just never had enough mirrors to melt steel. Hey, MIT, it works with a magnifying glass too!
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -1/+10Obviously you aren't getting it. It's not that they invented a focusing mirror. It's that they invented a **cheap** focusing mirror that can be sold in IKEA-like kits you assemble yourself at home.
  
  Solar electricity is available today to anybody who can afford it, which boils down to very few people. This innovation makes solar power far more *affordable*.
lump1, on 07/20/2008, -0/+6Making the parabolic mirror was the easy part. Now they need to figure out what should sit at the focal point that will generate electricity. I imagine it will be some sort of a turbine for superheated steam, but it better not be too wide, because then it will block the mirror, and it better not be too heavy, because the whole big assembly needs to move to track the sun.

I'll digg this again when they've figured out the hard part.
- unreg, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Ah, you're not going to put the turbine at the focal point.
  - drmobutu, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1And you're not going to be able to make the focal point chamber out of steel, either...
  - unreg, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1There are plenty of high temperature ceramics that can be utilized for a focal chamber. Remember, the point is to transfer heat, so whatever your utilizing will never actually see the maximum possible temperature.
- avdp, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRd1pnDTSz4&NR=1
  
  They've already got that figured out it seems. There is an arm contraption like a satellite dish, water comes up the arm to the focal point, goes through a black tube, steam comes back down the arm, and (right now) is released through a rubber hose. I guess just hook up the turbine to the hose.
  - unreg, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1For maximum efficiency, you'd want to keep the water flow pressurized so it doesn't flash to steam until it reaches the turbine. Better yet, a secondary heat exchange loop.
  - JustinTX, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Most of the existing solar-thermal generation already in existence uses an oil to soak up the heat and carry it to a heat exchanger to make steam.
- frothyswine, on 07/20/2008, -2/+0The Stirling engine is ideal:
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine
  
  None of this is new.
  - samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+3Do you have one? Have you seen an affordable commercial solar collector? No? Then it's new.
    
    The science is ancient, but making it commercially viable is new.
- turpialito, on 07/21/2008, -0/+1Would be neat if they developed a very efficient, high-temperature solar cell to put at the focal point. And ultra-efficient electricity storage systems. Now it's material science's turn.
bsonline, on 07/20/2008, -0/+3Digging yet another "Superbrain invents x will solve y", yet still seeing nothing on store shelves. Someone should design a site to track a product from Eureka! to purchase to mainstream availability.
unreg, on 07/20/2008, -0/+6Why is it every one of these ideals is going to"revolutionize" the power/auto/porn industry but we never hear about them again?
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Because going from brilliant idea to mass produced and distributed product takes an average of 3-5 years if you're lucky.
  - turpialito, on 07/21/2008, -0/+1Exactly. It becomes mainstream. Read record player vs. CDs : (
Stormwern, on 07/20/2008, -1/+4It's a deathray.
xxxkrogoth, on 07/20/2008, -2/+2The website for this looks like kids created it. Very unprofessional. You would think MIT students would be a little bit better at creating a website.

http://raw-solar.com/media.html
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+4They're engineers. They probably just got a buddy to design the site. Once they have funding I'm sure it'll be more flashy.
Borgcube636, on 07/20/2008, -1/+5Too bad it's not hot enough to melt Chuck Norris.
- PilotHead, on 07/20/2008, -1/+1The ray actually is just a mirror the reflects Chuck Norris
whyisntcakesin, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1To quote Hunter S Thompson... "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."
Keep on trucking MIT!!!!
frosted, on 07/20/2008, -0/+3Sure this is news.. anyone recall http://www.solardeathray.com/ besides me?
Ne007, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1I love this kind of news. I wish someone would collect news from 10 years ago and see what all they were working on back then.

All that technology must turn into a pile of dung, grow feet, and jump into a collective black hole toilet in the sky because we never get any of it.
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Ten inventions for 1998.
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/178311.stm
liuite, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1it was nice of the guy who held the patent go give them full rights...I wonder if the MIT folks will give him some royalty after making billions off of this
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1If he's savvy, his handing over of the patents would include a cut of the commercial profits.
mrzack, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1soon ,energy will be free for everyone. I can't wait for the flying jet packs.
ChileanGoD, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Wait... They claim it can melt steel but there is no statement in the article that says they actually melted steel. I'm confused.
- DeadPanDan, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1You suck at reading.
brainscab, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2Too bad the heat radiating out is wasted energy
- beauley, on 07/21/2008, -1/+1For those of us with children, "don't forget to turn out the lights" is a normal echo heard daily throughout the home almost like a broken record. For most of us here in the U.S., it is our way of reminding our children that energy today costs money, maybe a little too much.
  http://www.quazen.com/Science/Environmen t/We-Are-A-Nation-Of-Energy-Waste.15854
  We Are a Nation of Energy Waste
eddiecamaro, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1anyone remember the Val Kilmer movie called Real Genius?
PilotHead, on 07/20/2008, -4/+2Will it cook they're Ramen faster?
- 65daysofsteve, on 07/20/2008, -1/+5their
  - PilotHead, on 07/20/2008, -3/+1Thank you grammarcop, I have learned the error of my ways.
  - aksn1p3r, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1He probably meant to say: "Will it cook they are Ramen faster?"
lalalalamppost, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2If a satellite concentrated sunlight like this, could it melt steel on the surface of the earth?
- gcnaddict, on 07/20/2008, -0/+12002 called. They want their James Bond film back.
lalalalamppost, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1How far can the focal point be from the dish, I wonder? With all these construction cranes falling, bridge failing, etc... something like this seems like a potential weapon... scary
- coolmanmax2000, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1it's about 8 feet from the dish
inc595, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2We need to see this on Mythbusters
- AchaIemoipas, on 07/20/2008, -0/+4They did it already, and failed to test it correctly, as usual.
JFallon126, on 07/20/2008, -1/+2I think the Mythbusters will want to see this.

Archimedes' Death Ray anyone?
chrisdelta, on 07/20/2008, -1/+1You can't melt steel! Ask Rosie O'Donnell!
Nudar, on 07/20/2008, -0/+2Wasn't this on the front page just a month ago? Get with the program gavin.
- samcrut, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1That was a smaller, more complicated design I think.
Cheeseburgers, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1It's good that we are finally figuring out how to use a giant nuclear fireball over a million times the size of our planet as an energy source.
KauLad, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Mother Earth News - over 20 years ago with a tracker made from a Chevy electric window motor.
Shade2074, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1I want to see the video of it melting steel
Frylocke, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Everyone should have electricity. No matter what country.
lulzitsadigg, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Oh MIT, is there anything you can't do?

Preemptive "get laid"
YancyFryJr, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Wow, if you went anywhere near that thing's focal point it could go Raiders of the Lost Ark on your face.
scy1192, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Mythbusters should revisit their death ray myth
mdkaran, on 07/20/2008, -1/+0Guys you have to understand everything in the world needs control...otherwise we'd probably have a nuclear holocaust every second day then. Frankly I can think of dozens of uses for this thing if it really does work.
mswope, on 07/20/2008, -1/+3Nice idea - crummy article. "a dish the size of the RawSolar team’s design costs only a third of what a larger dish would cost." Well, duh... How much bigger - 3 times larger maybe?

Also, they really don't have a solution to anything besides melting non-descript steel and combusting 10 ft long 2x4's.

At least photovoltaics have a passable chance at being a solution for an energy problem.
frontporsche, on 07/20/2008, -0/+3 "For example, a dish the size of the RawSolar team’s design costs only a third of what a larger dish would cost." Was this written by someone in 5th grade? This is like saying "My Toyota only costs a third of what a car with a bigger engine would cost."
sponeil, on 07/21/2008, -0/+0Won't someone please think of the birds? Instant KFC! ;-)

On a more serious note, I couldn't have one of these things in my yard or on my roof. Birds, bats, insects, falling pine needles and branches, etc. would turn into fireballs and catch my house on fire. Even worse, I have kids. If we had one of these, they would throw sticks and other stuff up into the beam and shout something like "Flame on!", "Brisingr", or "Incendio" when they burst into flame.

Yes, I parent my kids. But when I was a kid, I would've tried it when I thought my parents weren't looking. Part of being a good parent is knowing when discipline is enough vs. when you need to physically remove the temptation. And even if my kids didn't try it, other kids in the neighborhood would come over and do it when I'm not home.
wemissyouthree, on 07/21/2008, -0/+1Isn't this like the 3rd time that this exact same story has shown up on digg over the last month?
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MIT Students Develop Solar Dish Hot Enough to Melt Steel

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