Five Ways to Cope When Your Child Returns to the Nest

Corey - Simple Marriage Project Says:

May 8th, 2008, 22:07 pm

Love the idea of creating an adult relationship. By using some sort of ritual or ceremony it could mark the transition into this relationship. Good ideas.

Niles Gibbs Says:

May 8th, 2008, 22:23 pm

“Being part of a family is a privilege.”

I disagree. Being part of a family is not a privilege, it’s a basic human right, as important as any other.

Laurie Says:

May 8th, 2008, 22:31 pm

I am really enjoying my oldest son when he comes home from college. We aren’t arguing any more. I am really having a wonderful time speaking to him as an adult. I’ve asked his thoughts on things going on in my life and he has been very understanding and a great source of support. I also told him to cook for himself! :O)

Vered - MomGrind Says:

May 8th, 2008, 23:26 pm

Even though my daughters are only 6 and 8, I sometimes worry about the inevitable empty nest. It’s encouraging to see the positive aspects of having grownup kids.

Sandra Says:

May 8th, 2008, 23:30 pm

As a college-age child myself, I’d like to put in my two cents, here.

Remember that, although it is your house and your rules, it’s good to reconsider what rules you now think are appropriate, as opposed to what was in place when your child left.

Having been off at college with no curfew, for example, I had been accustomed to coming and going whenever I felt like it. I’m a very good kid - I don’t drink, do drugs, break laws, or anything like that - so my parents figured out that they could trust me to keep taking care of myself in some respects I had become accustomed to.

I know some of my friends were very frustrated when they arrived home to “surprises” like a midnight curfew - you realize midnight is barely even the *night time* to a lot of colege students? - or their parents charging them rent (which is neither good nor bad, but not something to spring on your kid!), etc.

James Says:

May 8th, 2008, 23:50 pm

This article is actually kind of disgusting. The author clearly treats his child more like an employee than a loved one. Being part of a family is NOT a privilege. Unlike the author, my family supports me 100%, and doesn’t make it seem like I have to earn their support. Honestly, this is just wrong. This post should be removed. Shame on you, Alex.

Jessie Says:

May 8th, 2008, 23:52 pm

You are a little hypocritical in your idea of cultivating an adult relationship and yet returning your daughter to a highschool state of curfews and rules. There is a point where a young adult is building more in their personal life than in their family relationships - I’m sure your daughter spent the first eighteen years of her life contributing to the family. One year on her own has probably not given her enough to time to come skipping home with this as her top priority. I think giving young adults space whiles still reminding them they have your support when they need it is a much better option than laying down rules which will inevitably be broken. I’m sure she is pretty hesitant about returning for the opposite reasons as you are hesitant about her return. If you want her to help around the house maybe you need to compromise the curfew etc. Not enough give and take in your outline!

Shilpan | successsoul.com Says:

May 8th, 2008, 23:58 pm

#2 is an important point. Once our children grow, they should respect the house rules and should treat the relationship with their parents in proper perspective for their healthy growth. By allowing exceptions, we send them signal that they can get away without being responsible person.

Great post.

Shilpan

Anita Says:

May 9th, 2008, 0:00 am

Perhaps a more appropriate entrance to this adult child returning would be to include her in your conversations with your wife and the three of you could iron out how it might best work for all. I have two adult children who swing by now and then. A big part of acknowledging their adulthood is to be willing to ask their advice and opinions!

Dave Says:

May 9th, 2008, 0:04 am

Hmm, if my parents wrote something like this, I’d do anything I could so that I would never ever have to “impose” on them again. Luckily I have parents who would not starting planning my exit from their home before I’d even arrived. She has my sympathy.

Kara G. Says:

May 9th, 2008, 0:14 am

Whoa there…

“Being part of a family is a privilege.”

Hmmm… I haven’t heard something that sounded so cult like in years.

And planning your kids exit before they are even there? Your family must be very tense. You plan too much, just relax - its your daughters homecoming. (Planning activities is one thing, but….)

Personally, I am surprised your daughter would even come back to you guys with such a controlling environment. Don’t you realize you are programming your daughter to depend on a controlling source? She is going to end up marrying some abusive gangbanger.

Rolf F. Katzenberger Says:

May 9th, 2008, 0:16 am

This is the saddest articles I’ve ever read at Zen habits. Especially when I compare this guest posting to what Leo continues to post about his family life here.

“Establish Ground Rules”, “Boundaries”, “Expectations”, “Contribution”, “Exit Strategy”. What a detached, business-like attitude towards family life.

Anyway, good luck with item #4, “cultivate an adult relationship” - at least you didn’t call that “CRM” (Child Relationship Management).

Marc and Angel Says:

May 9th, 2008, 0:47 am

Your point on setting boundaries only applies if your daughter’s actions are negatively interfering with your normal routines, right? Otherwise, it’s a bit harsh…

Eugene (Editor, Varsity Blah) Says:

May 9th, 2008, 1:05 am

This is a very beautiful post! I love the idea of interacting with your parents/children as adults. It’s something I’ve only recently realized (being 22) and definitely needs to be considered.

Don Says:

May 9th, 2008, 1:12 am

I too take issue with the statement “Being part of a family is a privilege.” I must ask the author - you decided to have your daughter (something she had no say in) so how could you possibly bring her into the world, and then turn around and state that it’s a privilege for her to be part of the family?

Ryan McLean Says:

May 9th, 2008, 1:30 am

I like the part about cultivating an adult relationship. We can’t always treat our children like children once they have become adults. They need to be treated like adults and that includes all of the responsibilities they need to live up to.
That includes finances, cleaning and everything
I don’t have any children but some day soon I will hope to have some and I can build this bond too. How exciting.

Sean Says:

May 9th, 2008, 1:36 am

>>“Being part of a family is a privilege.”

>I disagree. Being part of a family is not a privilege, it’s a >basic human right, as important as any other.

I think what the author was saying is not that it’s a privilege in the sense of an extra treat or gift; but that it is a good thing and deserves respect.

Another example of this use would be “Isn’t it such a privilege to be alive on this beautiful Earth?”

This use of the word also points out that it is a privilege granted by the parents, however basic and justified it may seem. There are plenty of parents out there who would not or cannot support their children living with them, or going on to higher education at all.

Teenagers sometimes need to be reminded that they are not the only person living in that house :)

Arthur Says:

May 9th, 2008, 1:36 am

One must wonder: If the author, instead of having his child legally declared incompetent, sent her away to college, did he do her a grave disservice then, or is he about to do so now?

Speaking as a father, stepfather, and grandfather, I must say that there is an important distinction between adult offspring and child, and an even more important distinction between having a right and being right. I would remind the author of his article of March 27 and suggest that he did not “lose [his] daughter when she was a child”, he drove her away. He would be a fool to do so again.

As would anyone who takes his advice expressed here be a fool for doing so.

RT from RMO Says:

May 9th, 2008, 1:52 am

I’m not sure how I feel about all of this. Some good points, some not so solid.

I hope it works out. And if she doesn’t vote for Obama send her back to college! LOL

;)

The Daily Minder

Jaymes Says:

May 9th, 2008, 2:03 am

Developing a mature relationship with your child is extremely important. Part of that key is developing trust as equals, so to speak; you will always be the parent and therefore will garner special respect in their mind, whether it is openly acknowledged or not. With trust and maturity, you can get a much better idea of where they are and where they are heading and, much more importantly, have a much more impactful voice in helping them sidestep the otherwise inevitable pitfalls of the maturation process, remembering that they’re still only in their 20s (no matter how old they feel).

The idea that being part of a family as a “privilege” in any sense of that word is a direct contradiction to that very relationship. Making your child part of a family is your responsibility as a parent, it was the contract you signed upon conception/birth. Whether it is commonly fulfilled is another debate.

As a part of the maturity inherent to the new relationship is an expectation of increase maturity from the child with regards to the parents and rules of the house, without a doubt. But for this to work successfully, and I have seen it done, both sides need to approach it with respect and consideration … just as with any successful adult relationship.

Peter of the BigUpshot Says:

May 9th, 2008, 2:41 am

I’m very glad I came to look at the comments here. It’s great to see both sides. Old people all saying, “Heaven yes, a wee child of 18 needs boundaries!” and the younguns’ all up in arms: “If I was your kid, I’d sleep in a box before I came home!”

It’s pretty hilarious.

I wonder what Mr. Blackwell would have said if his Dad had told him at 18 that being part of his family was a privilege.

Noah Says:

May 9th, 2008, 2:54 am

This post was very sad. How tender must your home life be, that such a short deviation requires such anxious meddling! Once your daughters actually gain that adult experience they’re clearly not able to receive at home, I hope they lead a better example for their kids.

thedude Says:

May 9th, 2008, 3:47 am

Zen Habits,..reduce the clutter:

#1->#3 although you lived as an adult for the last 9 months, you’re still our kid, our house our rules!
#4 oh good! you’re blossoming into an adult.
#5 sooner or later all good things come to an end, cope.

Question on #1->#3 if you were temporarily housing anyone else, a boarder, a nephew, a son/daughter of a past army/college buddy, would you still go to such great lengths to assert “boundaries” and “control” ?

Rachel Says:

May 9th, 2008, 4:27 am

better advice from someone is still dealing with such levels of control from afar in her thirties…

You could just enjoy the summer (one of the last chances you will likely have to have her living with you) with your daughter, and respect the fact that she has become used to far more independence. Sure, don’t allow her to take liberties, but as I read it, this post basically says ‘I’m going to treat my daughter like a child, whilst simultaneously expecting her to relate to me as an adult.

If my parents had come out with this when I left home, and had I found out about it, I would have pretty quickly find an alternative place to stay for the summer. Oh wait. I did.

Richard Says:

May 9th, 2008, 4:30 am

Any chance Caitlin is going to see this post, by any chance? I’d be really interested in hearing what her reaction to this is.

“Caitlin has learned a lot about being on her own and other important life skills, too.”

Then she doesn’t need to be patronised. If you want her to do the laundry on some idle Tuesday ask her nicely to. If she has matured she won’t put up much of a fight about it.
Re-establishing boundaries? Ground rules?
She’s, what, 18/19/20-years-old, right?

I’m not a parent: I’m a freshman who is to return home soon, just like Caitlin.
She and I will always be children in our parents’ eyes. I get it.
But if I were her, and my father had posted an article like this online, I’d be fairly offended.

Sean Kelly Says:

May 9th, 2008, 5:28 am

I will be in college next year, and my parents have already given me a lecture just like this. They didn’t say that being in a family is a privilege, but they think living with them is, and unless I do my fair share of work and chores (a lot to them…) during the summer, and probably pay rent, then I won’t be allowed to do anything. I feel bad for Caitlin, who will be going through the same ordeal.

Jan Says:

May 9th, 2008, 6:43 am

I think you got the title wrong. The post should be called “The five things NOT to do when your child all of a sudden became a grown-up”.

This list is a joke, right?

Stephen Says:

May 9th, 2008, 7:27 am

I went thru a similar “adjustment” the first summer I came home from college. It was the last time I did.

After the experience of setting my own schedule and having the freedom of the “comings-and-goings” of my pals and ladyfriends, it was stifling and humiliating to be back with my parents.

Best of luck to Caitlin, perhaps she will decide to get a job in Lawrence next summer, and stay on campus. That’s what I did.

qma Says:

May 9th, 2008, 7:29 am

All I see is the author’s anxiety toward her daughter’s return from college. Relax! She has probably leaned “how” to live with her parents already.

William Says:

May 9th, 2008, 7:51 am

I have to laugh at college kids who think they are in any way “out on their own” when in fact Mom and Dad are footing the bill for tuition, room and board, car and insurance, and spending money. What a joke.

Maybe if more kids got out when they turned eighteen (as I did) and were entirely self-supporting from then on (as I was), they’d be less critical of a guy like this dad who so graciously wants to welcome his daughter back home.

That’s the problem with many children nowadays. They feel entitled; they’re spoiled and ungrateful, and it shows. For shame.

Liara Covert Says:

May 9th, 2008, 8:10 am

Letting your kids know that you love them isn’t supposed to change with age. What can change is the mutual understanding of respect. I like ideas I learned about older children from inspirational author, Wayne Dyer. Rather than set rules for older children to follow, he recommends reinforcing love and trust. Tell your teens you trust their judgment. Tell your young adults to come home at ‘a reasonable time’ rather than give them a curfew. Encourage them to help around the house without making a list of demands. Compel initiative and praise effort. Praise evokes self-confidence and self-acceptance, as well as more good reasons to give more praise. In situations where your expectations as a parent aren’t being met, different communication may be necessary. Yet, in general, when you praise, this makes people want to do more similar things to get more positive reinforcement.

Ray Merkler Says:

May 9th, 2008, 8:21 am

I find it interesting that your first three bullet points are all about rules — or more accurately, restrictions — that your daughter will be expected to abide by. You set these guidelines for her behavior, yet you set no such rules for your own. Rules such as respecting her privacy and her space. You’ll be requiring her to keep her noise down at night when you and your wife are asleep, but will you keep your own noise down in the morning when your daughter will likely still be in bed? Is she going to be your younger daughter’s new chauffeur?

If she comes home and you immediately return to treating her like a subordinate, she’ll never spend another summer at home again. All three of you are adults now. Treat her like one, and (hopefully) she’ll afford you the same courtesy.

Stephanie Says:

May 9th, 2008, 8:27 am

Yikes. Good luck with your summer, Caitlin!

John W. Furst Says:

May 9th, 2008, 8:27 am

Excellent article. I think above rules don’t only apply to “a daughter” coming home, but also to related scenarios like other family members visiting.

As I live on the Canaries, we get a lot of family visitors and they mostly stay for 2 or even 3 weeks, … Yes, that requires rules and some “law” enforcement.

Have a nice weekend.

Fiona Arbuthnot Says:

May 9th, 2008, 8:34 am

Stop! No families are smiles all the time, but there is a lot of love in this one. They will work out fine. I wish them the best time.

andy Says:

May 9th, 2008, 8:44 am

Cultivating an adult relationship sounds great. Unfortunately, you have already denied your daughter that chance. She may have opinions on a few of your conditions for welcoming her back home.

I also wonder if you explicitly enumerate the conditions of your other adult relationships. If so, I would expect those relationships to be pretty unfulfilling.

Daniel Says:

May 9th, 2008, 8:47 am

I don’t have kids, but I was one, once. As such, I recommend number 4 from personal experience. I loved my parents when they were mostly parents, but now that they’re parents AND friends, I cherish them. Might I suggest cultivating that relationship over a nice cup of tea and a slice of home made bread?

SL Says:

May 9th, 2008, 8:54 am

I have to agree with other readers who said this was a very sad post. Treating your relationship with your children like a business operation seems just plain wrong.

Also, I suspect that some of the ideas expressed by the author may well be linked to some segments of the US culture. This is by no means a generalisation: certainly everybody is different, and there must be millions of people in the US who do not share the author’s views (the many comments already posted here criticising the article are further proof of this). I’m just trying to point out that for many other cultures in the world it would be offensive, even unthinkable to say something like “Being part of a family is a privilege”. In many parts of the world, things don’t work in the same way described by the author; children live longer with their families, even when they are already in college (not everybody needs to move to another city or state for that), sometimes even until they get married. And asking/expecting your child to pay rent when he or she is visiting is a very strange idea, to say the least.

I also got the general impression that, in some way, the author sees the visit of his daughter as something inconvenient, which will disturb his routine and his peace - so he has to be well-prepared in advance, planning all the details and setting rules to limit and control the nuisance.

Sorry if my comments seem harsh - I mean no offence, and I respect the author’s and everybody else’s point of view, but as someone with a family background that is probably very different from what the author describes, I found this article very sad indeed.

Jean Says:

May 9th, 2008, 8:57 am

where’s Leo?

Stephanie Says:

May 9th, 2008, 9:03 am

I think you’re right, SL. Here is a family member who hasn’t yet fully established her independence, but is getting there, and needs a place to stay for the summer. This list of rules does not sound in any way welcoming or helpful. The situation is not outlined as a “how can I help my daughter” gesture, but a “how can I protect my comfort zone at home” gesture, which just seems selfish to me.

I ask the author of this post — how will you feel when you are no longer able to support yourself — when your child takes on the role of the caregiver? Would you see her support in this situation as a “privilege” then, to be structured by rules and regulations, or a welcome act of grace and kindness?

dinkie Says:

May 9th, 2008, 9:25 am

Leo, I know you’re really busy, but please don’t insult your readers by inviting this guest blogger again. I’m really disappointed in you. Personally I think you should apologize for allowing this post.

Alex writes in a patronizing way about his adult daughter. He seems stuck in thinking he can order Caitlin - a legal adult - around. I’m glad she’s doing a college degree - hopefully it means she will be able to support herself soon and get away from her overbearing and self-centered father.

Alex - a curfew ? Are you serious? Perhaps you still think it’s the 1950s. If Caitlin has any gumption she will calmly and clearly tell you where you can stick her curfew. So what exactly are you going to do? Throw her out?

Do you ask her permission when you invite your friends round? I really hope you don’t treat your wife n a similar way.

The “time and effort” you “invest” into your children are your own choice and most people give this freely without any expectation of payback. Remember - you made a choice to have a child - nobody was forcing you to have one 18-20 years ago. You get what you’re given with children. Once they are an adult - you’re equals and you have no right whatsoever to tell her what to do.

You don’t “give” her autonomy, it is her right.

Caitlin - my sympathies and seriously, good luck. Not everyone’s parents are like this - you’ve just got a bad lot. Stand up for yourself and get your own back-up plan and you won’t have to put up with this for much longer. You’re an adult not a child any more, and your parents can’t control your behavior, your late nights (or indeed early mornings) or your sexuality for that matter. And your politics are your own choice too - and your choice as to whether you want to explain.

Shame on you Alex. You’re the one who needs to grow up.

Matt Says:

May 9th, 2008, 9:29 am

You know, all of you naysayers must be either living with your parents or have been EXTREMELY lucky to have had a positive experience with your children. I, on the other hand, have an 18-year-old step-son who seems to not want to join real life. He got kicked out of his dad’s, was going from friend’s house to friend’s house until he wore out his welcome. He was homeless for a day, until the cops came and said either we take you to a homeless shelter or you figure things out. He called us, and as the loving parents we are, we took him in. He told us that he is going to turn things around by getting his GED and a job, etc. He has been home for over three months and eats, sleeps, and plays Second Life on the computer all night long. I think he has contributed to the family household by taking out the garbage a couple times. Yes, it IS a privilege, you people. At this age (18+), they should have been given the tools to integrate into society and succeed in their independence, which I know we have done. We have been positive, supportive, nurturing, but the fact is that this is the time in their lives that they need to make a life for themselves. As parents we will always have an open door policy and help out whenever, wherever we can, but we are trying not to allow him to think that he’s got it made and doesn’t have to do a darn thing, because ultimately, it is OUR (my wife’s and my) home, we pay the rent and bills. I will be going over this with my wife tonight, and we will no doubt implement almost all (if not all) the strategies in this post, since it will keep us from going insane. THANKS ALEX!!!

Jess Says:

May 9th, 2008, 9:35 am

I see nothing wrong with expectations for your kids when they come home. As adults, we have responsibilites like laundry, dishes, grocery shopping, lawn work, household maintenance and the like. If ‘adult’ children want to come home, there is no reason to give them a free ride. Every adult has to do these things. If you are not doing them, you are not acting like an adult. Mom and Dad should not take up the extra work for having the adult child there at home.

I do take issue with treating someone like an invited guest and a productive family member at the same time. It seems contradictory.

I think he meant that being apart of a family is a privilege and should not be taken advantage of. Not that you can be kicked out at any given time.

Evan Says:

May 9th, 2008, 9:39 am

Curfews, haha. This is most likely the worst article I’ve ever read here.

Mary Says:

May 9th, 2008, 9:46 am

My daughter is nearly 18 and will be moving out for college. I hope I never feel the way this poster does about her returning home.

I agree that there are certain ground rules that should be set, mutually, at the front end, just so everyone is clear on what the expectations are. While I wouldn’t relegate my child to following the same rules as in high school, I would let her know she is expected to clean up after herself and treat all members of the family with respect. In return, I would give her that same respect: her privacy, freedom of movement and for her way of doing things. As it is, I do that now.

As far as the rest of the post, I would hope that talking to their daughter as an adult has already begun on calls home, and isn’t something that has to be worked at. And regardless of how the word “privilege” was meant, it did come across as cold and mean. I chose to have my child, any privilege is mine, not hers.

Stephanie, you make an excellent point about when this person is elderly and his daughter is responsible for his care. Will he consider that a right or privilege? How does the bumper sticker go, “be kind to your children, they will choose your nursing home?”

I wish the daughter the best of luck coming through summer unscathed. And I wonder if she will spend any further summers, or any time at all really, at home.

Jeff@My Super-Charged Life Says:

May 9th, 2008, 9:51 am

I think these are some great tips. My children are stil young, so I won’t have to concern myself about this for ahwile, but still I agree with all these suggestions. It sounds like some good advice to me.

Adult children need to be lovingly taught to stand on their own two feet. If they don’t take personal responsibility for their lives, then they will never prosper.

Way to go Alex!

PlanningQueen Says:

May 9th, 2008, 9:54 am

I just read a great interview by Lin at Telling It Like It Is with the author of a book titled Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children: Six Steps to Hope and Healing. It would provide great reading for any one who is looking for more guidance in dealing with adult children.

Heather Says:

May 9th, 2008, 10:17 am

To save typing and reading time I will say… ditto what Mary said.

I found myself thinking while reading the article….”sheesh I wish he had written this article AFTER the summer because in reality he doesn’t know what he is talking about yet.
Personally I think Alex is overthinking the whole situation and that his daughter will have a lovely summer visiting her family and friends.

One note to Alex directly though. Your daughter is “coming home for a VISIT” not “MOVING back home” There is a whole world of difference between those two things. Yes she needs to respect you and your house always. If you treat her like an adult, chances are that is what will happen. IF she does not, then is the time to sit down with her and discuss the return to “high school rules” Give her a chance to show you how she has grown in the last 10 months. I’ll bet you $50 she is not the same teenager that left last fall.

ps to the “youngsters” Posting “you awful parent you” comments…. your age is showing :) Take Alex’s post as food for thought and insight into some of the anxiety your parents may (or may not) be feeling. It doesn’t matter how old and independent you get, your parents will always want to look after you at some level. At this time in your life they are just as confused as you are.

Matt Says:

May 9th, 2008, 10:25 am

I agree, William! I think a sad, sad thing about society today is that kids grow up with this infallibility and entitlement complex, where they “deserve” all of life’s fruit. They are blind to the realization that there is a cost and NOTHING is free. It seems that every generation that goes by, the more kids expect and take for granted. Well put, William!

Matt Says:

May 9th, 2008, 10:35 am

Heather, I don’t think he’s totally jumping the gun, per se. Seriously, kids these days typically act like they can do whatever the hell they want, and get away with whatever they want without consequence. Mind you, this IS a generalization, and not all kids in this Y generation are that way, but a lot of them are. I NEVER thought I would turn into my parents and being all crotchety and cynical and old-like, but it happens- to ALL of us. All of a sudden, you realize that a lot of kids you see are just punks and that they don’t respect their elders, etc. I don’t recall the last time I heard a child in our neighborhood address another parent by Mr. or Mrs.- it is “Hi, !” The one thing I will say, though, is just wait until you kids have kids of your own. THEN, and only then will you completely understand. And you will say, “Yeah, I get it, whatever. My kids will be totally different.” until you realize that you are where us parents are right now, and then you will say “OMGWTFBBQ!!!1! Those old people back on that ZenHabits commenter section were RIGHT!”

Matt Says:

May 9th, 2008, 10:37 am

Sorry, I meant the kids would say “Hi, **first name**!”

Stephanie Says:

May 9th, 2008, 10:46 am

But Matt, your situation is different from the original poster’s. There is a different between handling a young adult who’s trying to become independent — going to school or working — and one who doesn’t know what to do with their lives yet and isn’t putting in the effort to figure it out. Caitlin is not hanging around the house playing video games — she’s coming home from college for the summer. She’s on her way to independence and needs her parents to bridge the gap.

Setting harsh rules seems SO out of place in Alex’s situation. I’m sorry, but a curfew? I would have laughed at my parents if they were ever to have made such a suggestion at that time in my life, and I turned out alright.

As long as the kid doesn’t throw wild parties at home, I don’t know why you need to establish rules before she gets there. If she’s doing anything that bothers you, talk to her as an ADULT and then the three of you decide as a family what needs to change. You may find that YOU need to adjust your expectations as parents. Your daughter does have a right to privacy and autonomy, even though it is your house. She contributes by going to school and helping out when asked, but I would definitely not sit her down the day she gets there and lay these out formally. It seems like a way of guaranteeing tension in the family, rather than making things easier.

B Smith @ Wealth and Wisdom Says:

May 9th, 2008, 10:50 am

Leo-I love the post. And wow did it raise some protest!

I think some people misunderstood the intent of some of his points. Every functional household has boundaries, guidelines, and rules. They evolve and change over time. I have seen too many parents who don’t set boundaries. The parents, kids, and everyone around them are miserable. And these rules apply to everyone from the father/mother to the youngest child.

Did it come across as business like? Probably. This turned off some and appealed to others. What is the reader’s perspective? Are they analytical or pragmatic? If so, they probably liked it. Are they amiable or extroverts? Then the analysis that removed emotion offended them.

And as for the comment that family is a basic human right, you couldn’t be farther from the truth. Family is a blessing. It is a wonderful thing. It completes your life. It is a privilege that some people never get and that some people give up. Some of us grew up in dysfunctional homes. Family wasn’t granted to us, we had to build and earn it. That makes it even more precious.

Heather Says:

May 9th, 2008, 11:14 am

Matt…
I’m running to work… so I really skim read you post but I’m afraid that by the time I get home you wont be reading this anymore.

I am 40yrs old and have a 21 yr old step son (quazi moved out), a 18 yr old son (grade 12 at home) and a 16 month old son…. so I actually do have a little experience in the field :)

I have found (in general) that parents that treat their children either like best friends or at the opposite end (very controling, regimented, talked down to etc…) have major problems when their kids are teens and early twenties. ALSO each child needs to be parented individually. In our house the 18 yr old is much more mature than the 21 yr old and I find we ourselves being much more diciplinarian with the older one just because he needs it.

I agree that as a society we have lost a lot of respect for our elders… unfortunately I place a lot of that blame on the previous generation. I find there has been a lack of respect in both directions. Where are the kids suposed to learn respect if not from their elders?
For example… my parents insisted I call adults “Mr and Mrs so-n-so” ALL of my neighbors insisted that I DO NOT do that…. my calling them by their first name was their choice and so I had to respect that/them. Here, now, if a child calls you Mr so-n-so chances are he is being disrespectful or he is scared of you. (sad but true)

I do agree with one point you made. One of my favorite quotes is : “If a man thinks at 40 the way he did at 20, he has wasted 20 years of his life”

Thomas George Says:

May 9th, 2008, 11:24 am

I am offended by this article and should not have been on Zen Habits.I am from India,am 29 years old,unmarried and live with my parents.I work in the healthcare sector and take care of the bills etc.My parents are happy that I am there for them.The way the article is written it could have been directed at a paying house guest.Oh wait,this guy might actually ask for rent and then she would be a paying house guest.If the child is like the terror Matt is burdened with then such a post would be relevant.Otherwise it is inhuman to think of your kids as a burden.Even if u feel that way why do u have it say it out loud?He didn’t even leave this in a hand written note on her bed,he is posting it on the internet.What would her friends think about Caitlin?At her age 18 that is very important for her.I hope you are financially well off.Because the healthcare costs are going to go through the roof from now(it is already high but it will go even further even faster) as the dollar tanks it will buy less and less.So when you finally get that hip fracture you might not be able to afford quality medical care and may have to depend on family members.With this attitude the maximum I would expect her to do is to bring you flowers.So my advice as a doctor would be to live healthy,calculate your medical risks using online calculator,analyze the future costs in terms of discounted cash flow analysis and compare the costs with the costs of spending money on your daughter.Also take into consideration the possibility that your daughter might care more than a paid nursing staff into your calculations.The culture is very alien and since this all about money,I think this would help people to make a rational and profitable decision.If the healthcare costs>kids cost then butter up to your kids,if kids cost>healthcare costs then boot them out.(/sarcasm)

Oh in case one is wondering what kids can do about healthcare costs,they can give you money in times of need and they might charge a lower rate of interest.

Leo,I know you are busy with the triathlon but seriously this blog is one of the 5 (yes people only 5) that I have on my read list.I purged 74 other feeds that were there.This is why I had to post because I felt so strongly.

discounted cash flow analysis calculator
http://www.bplans.com/common/calculators/dcf.cfm

MrAchievement.com (Stanley Bronstein) Says:

May 9th, 2008, 11:46 am

This article is extremely poignant given the current economic climate which has lots of people hurting.

I agree whole heartedly with the points of establishing boundaries and coming up with an exit strategy.

If you are unable to do those two things, then not only will the relationship be unhealthy, the parent and the child will be stuck with each other.

MrAchievement
Stanley Bronstein
Attorney, CPA, Author, Blogger & Professional Motivational Speaker

avneetks Says:

May 9th, 2008, 11:48 am

Wow, I wish my parents had thought of something like this for us when I was in college. I’m 25 and I’ve since moved far away from home, but somehow my parents still expect me to act and be okay with being treated like I’m still in high school. And yes, your list does indicate that the ground rules about curfew, etc should be the same as when the child was at home…but I think they’re clinging a bit too much too it. Something like this might have helped them not let go, but change the way they relate to me.

99ppp Says:

May 9th, 2008, 12:12 pm

@Ralph Bloom, I agree that what happens in your house is your business, and if you have adult offspring there, and you voice the above opinion clearly, they I suspect its likely they won’t stick around for too long, so there will be no one to respect your “PARENTAL AUTHORITY- FOREVER!”. Your approach is a good way to keep them away, maybe for good, and if that’s your intention, bravo!

@Alex: I see cultivating an adult relationship as negotiating with a spirit of mutual respect, rather than dictating terms like establish rules unilaterally. One could instead seek consensus. I agree that if you find her position unacceptable, asking her to find other accommodations is reasonable, since you’ve done your child-raising, but the post above suggests that an adult relationship doesn’t seem high on the list, and was thrown there as an afterthought.

Camilla Says:

May 9th, 2008, 12:24 pm

I’m in agreement with B Smith’s comment - good analysis of the situation and the resulting responses. And hey, we even have a troll. :P

Iris M. Gross Says:

May 9th, 2008, 12:56 pm

Someone who thinks that being part of a family is a privilege rather than an unalterable condition they themselves created by adoption or birth doesn’t need to be writing about family issues. I’ve never heard of anything so preposterous!

Woe to the family whose members can never come home. We throw away our old people to the nursing homes when they don’t fit in, or cramp people’s style. Now this guy’s saying his own kids need to fit in to his schedule.

I suppose this is indicative of a cultural difference. I feel this guy should count his lucky stars that his kids WANT to come home, and not be kids that when they leave, they leave for good and don’t even call or show up for holidays.

Elizabeth Says:

May 9th, 2008, 13:03 pm

A few readers seem not to have noticed that some of us “oldsters” were just as outraged as younger readers at the tone and tenets of Alex’s guest post. As the fiftyish parent of a terrific grown son, I could hardly believe what I was reading. Alex is not acknowledging his daughter’s right to adult respect and space (let alone privacy from thousands of strangers on the Web!). He does not seem to grasp the vast developmental changes that people go through in that first year away. Moreover, someone who has distinguished herself academically in her freshman year does not sound troublesome or unruly to begin with. Yet she is being “welcomed” home with all the warmth and trust of a hypervigilant juvenile probation officer. (Curfews, by the way, went out of style not long after I finished college — good riddance. For obvious but atavistic reasons, they were imposed selectively on college women, never on college men). Leo, you have a unique and wonderful blog, but this guest columnist has truly missed the boat.Perhaps you need to remind Alex that a visit to your blog is a privilege, to be conducted with proper deference and subservience to certain nonegotiable and infantilizing Rules of Decorum . . (Just kidding!). Seriously, though, it would be good to see this disturbing and wrongheaded post deleted from your archives.

Rachel Says:

May 9th, 2008, 13:30 pm

Run, Caitlin, run!

Do not pass go. Do not return home for the summer. Do NOT re-enter this man’s home until he’s ready to actually have the adult relationship with you that he is not yet ready to have.

K Says:

May 9th, 2008, 14:08 pm

So much for adulthood! If you’re intent is to make sure she never wants to do this again, you are likely to succeed. She’s spent the better part of a year off on her own, she’s not interested in being treated like a child anymore. Fair’s fair, you want to keep your home quiet after hours, etc. Just keep in mind that your now-grown-up daughter has probably realized that she doesn’t need to live under mom and dad’s rules any more.

At least you’re not charging your daughter rent, so perhaps this is a fair tradeoff for your unwillingness to allow your daughter independent freedom while she spends the summer in her childhood home.

But I bet you next year that, given the choice between a cheap sublet in Lawrence versus all the limitations, restrictions, and demands of Home Sweet Home, she won’t pick Home again. And besides, paying rent and maintaining your own living environment is a more important life skill to learn than how to be an enabler for your parents’ empty nest and control issues.

K Says:

May 9th, 2008, 14:12 pm

In fact, the use of the word “child” in the headline hammers the nail home. This parent does not accept the notion that their daughter is an ADULT, not a KID, regardless of how much older you are than them and how many diapers you changed.

Caitlin needs to learn how to be her own person, not Mom and Dad’s person. We’re not talking about punk 13 year olds. We’re talking about a legal adult

Ali from The Office Diet Says:

May 9th, 2008, 14:14 pm

I’m afraid I’m going to differ from most of the comments above and say that I think this is sensible advice.

I had a fairly crap summer after my first year away from home at university, because I failed to get a job, hung around the house bored and broke, and missed my friends and freedom.

My parents were wonderful (in retrospect … at the time I had some awful rows with them) but I’d probably have had a better few months if they’d laid down some ground rules and been clear how I was going to contribute to the household. My second year, I got a job in my university town and spent the entire summer break staying in halls because I felt like I’d “failed” by going home the prevoius year. I learnt to really appreciate (and miss!) my folks then — and the experience of having my first full-time job was invaluable.

I think Alex’s advice is aimed at parents like mine — people who tend to over-induldge their offspring — and I’m sure he’s not advocating being cold or unloving towards your kids. When he writes that:

“Shopping for new items for her apartment, gradually giving her more autonomy as the summer wanes into the fall, and planning the Thanksgiving holiday details when we will unite as a family again, are all things we can do to help with the transition from the nest and back into her independence.”

– it’s clear he has HER best interests at heart; he wants to make sure she’s both included as part of the family (for Thanksgiving) but also feels supported as an independent adult.

Ali

Tim Brownson Says:

May 9th, 2008, 14:18 pm

I think there is some piling on her. I haven’t got kids and I’m not even sure that I agree with Alex but I do respect his right to voice an opinion.

As for taking offense. C’mon this is a blog, if you’re going to take offense about something, make it something worthwhile like world hunger, poverty or war.

Lynn Says:

May 9th, 2008, 14:24 pm

I too have a problem with “Being part of a family is a privilege.” If my parents ever told me that, I’d be certain to make my visits less frequent.

But learning to create an adult relationship is very important. When I first came home from college, it was hard for my parents to remember that I had changed, I had learned a lot more about myself and the world, taken on a lot more responsibilities, and not the same person I was in high school.

Maddy August Says:

May 9th, 2008, 14:46 pm

It sounds a little odd but I don’t believe I have set any rules as a mother, my teenage children are independent, loving, successful in school and with their peers, respectful, good people. I think my husband and I lead by example, we love our children unconditionally and I suppose we were also just plain lucky. Our rules could be summarized in 4 words: work hard, be nice

My daughter is coming home from her first year away, she has successfully navigated a demanding program in a foriegn culture. During a ten month period we only saw her twice. I am counting the days not thinking about rules (not that I ever thought about rules anyway . . .)

As an example of leading by example, my 17 year old son is going to his first dance (yes, he’s a homebody), he asked me last night if it would be okay if came home a little late - I asked how late, he said midnight. I told him that would be fine but he needed to double check his date’s curfew. In my opinion thats how respectul conversation works between parents and their kids.

one more example - I know my kids’ friends were always shocked that we didn’t “ground” our kids, but since when is spending time w/family, at home a punishment?

Matt Says:

May 9th, 2008, 14:48 pm

Stephanie, you are right, my situation does differ, and in re-reading the posting, I found myself scratching my head on a couple accounts, but still believe about 98% of what Alex said. I believe that overall basic respect for those who live in the house on a permanent basis is key. Respecting the life change and routines for those who live in the house on a permanent basis is also key. Curfews? Maybe not so much, but maybe checking in to ease any worry about her safety (as ALL parents do,or should worry). And the “transition in the fall seems to be a more permanent transition, since Caitlin will be moving into an apartment. Granted, these are generalizations, and it seems a lot of people have taken certain words out of context and have inflated them to make Alex a monster. Too bad for them in not reading between the lines and perhaps understanding that each family has it’s own unique dynamics, and this list is HIS way of dealing with his particular dynamic. There were times that I kept my parents up worrying that I was out until 4 a.m. All they asked for was a phone call because they are good parents and cared enough to worry about their son.

Heather, I really like that quote. And in our situation, it seems we have tried everything from being the friend and the disciplinarian, but to seemingly no avail. And I agree with what you said about each individual child needs individual attention/ discipline/ help depending on individual needs. Like I said above when addressing Stephanie: this may work word-for-word for Alex, but generally these are good rules to alter to fit the dynamics of each family.

Tom Says:

May 9th, 2008, 14:53 pm

Can’t help but feel like you’re not really treating her as an adult, actually. I certainly like the sound of ‘creating an adult relationship’ with your daughter, but it hardly goes hand in hand with ‘curfews’.

I too object to the idea that ‘being part of a family is a privelege’. I certainly wouldn’t want to spend much time with my parents if they started speaking like that!

Jessica Says:

May 9th, 2008, 14:57 pm

I think it’s impressive that there are so many responses to this post and all from so many different view points. I think that articulates one simple fact — that everyone raises their children differently and that there is no right or wrong…it’s just what works for your family.

I am due with my first child (a daughter) in September. I’m 25 and take no offense whatsoever to Alex’s article. I think his suggestions are dead on — particularly because so much of what he is suggesting is open communication and setting clear expectations.

I always knew where I stood with my parents on almost any topic because we spoke openly about everything — it’s important to note, however, that they were NEVER my “friends”. (I intend to raise my daughter the same way). We could speak openly, but still spoke as parent and child, not friends. I now enjoy an adult relationship with both of my parents — once I no longer “needed” them (I moved out at 19) as “parents”, I was able to start relating to them as adults.

While Caitlin is more of an adult b/c she’s growing older and gaining opportunities for independence, she is still, in part, a “child” in the equation because she still needs her parents (whether she wants to admit that or not). There is no reason that her parents should give her free reign and not set expectations simply because she’s a college student — once she’s done college, on her own, supporting herself, then she can run free — at this point she still needs guidance.

Alex is sharing just one way of a parent handling a situation of an offspring returning home from college for a summer. Being an expectant parent, it has become so clear to me that I can open up 100 different books and read about 100 different ways to raise a child, and each one will have a follower and each one will think that way rings true. We should simply take from Alex’s suggestions what we can an incorporate it, if we’re interested, into what we currently do.

None of Leo’s posts are directed at us as dictating a one true way of doing things or behaving — Alex’s post is no different.

Katie Jennings Says:

May 9th, 2008, 15:02 pm

How about, ‘hi, it’s lovely to see you, how were finals?’

dinkie Says:

May 9th, 2008, 15:07 pm

@ Ralph Bloom: Ralph, you really are going too far. I suggest that you re-think the tone of your comments. I think you are either trolling or really need to calm down. Perhaps read some of Leo’s posts?

Can I just remind you that this is a Zen Habits blog - usually we all manage to share our different and often quite opposed points of view in a calm and reasonable manner here. You really need to stop shouting.

Yes, Ralph, even someone like me of the “parental” generation knows that your capital letters are shouting. It is unnecessary, quite frankly it is rude, and your comments themselves are inflammatory, unnecessary, deliberately provocative, and violent in tone.

Especially saying that you would “backhand” your kids - hey I don’t know where you live, but in a lot of countries it is illegal to hit your children at all, let alone beat them. And can I just remind everyone again that the original poster is talking about an adult, not a child. Hitting another adult is definitely illegal.

I hope you either don’t actually have children, or that they stay away from you.

@ Matt - I don’t actually agree with you but you have raised a very sensible point about phones:
“There were times that I kept my parents up worrying that I was out until 4 a.m. All they asked for was a phone call because they are good parents and cared enough to worry about their son. ”

I did the same thing, but there were no cellphones back then! - nowadays though, parents have a perfect solution - if your son’s still out at 4am, call him on his mobile and point out that it’s getting kinda late … you never need stay up and worry anymore.

@ Katie Jennings: Perfect !!!

David (Aged 23) Says:

May 9th, 2008, 15:11 pm

I generally like the ideas in this post (and have benefited from having parents who treated me with respect but not with complete adult freedom when I lived under their roof), but I can’t help but noticing that these are ideas that you haven’t yet implemented. This blog usually offers ideas that have already worked for someone (usually the poster), rather than untried suggestions. I’d be interested to read a post after the summer about what worked and what didn’t, and I’m sure parents with college-aged kids would be more interested than I am!

Leo Says:

May 9th, 2008, 15:20 pm

It is “strange” how people behave in online world. Last week when i checkd your subscriber list it was 55,000. Now it is 33,700…20k users unsubscribed in a week ??..

Leo, you should really look this numbers carefully..May be lack of posts make people reluctant to check the blog daily….But i certainly believe that people would come back once u post regularly..

all the best..

Lauren Says:

May 9th, 2008, 15:30 pm

That’s a shame about the unsubscribe-numbers. A blog is a huge commitment, no doubt about it.

This post probably would have opened up a miniature war amongst readers, either direction it took. Rather, what I mean is that parental preference is a hot topic that always differs very, very widely. It’s a little like religion in that, people are very sure and protective of their methods.

I agree some with both major ’sides’, here. Respect is respect, period. You have to give it to receive it. At the same time, I would like to say this; I just want to put it out there:

A child is your choice. Your idea, your actions, your responsibility. Your choice. Your. Choice. So it would seem that a parent should act accordingly.

At any rate, decent post. Respect is crucial, and I positively think that at this point in the lives, parents and children should have that adult relationship.

Daffodil Says:

May 9th, 2008, 16:13 pm

“Final exams at Kansas University are only a few weeks away.”

It’s the University of Kansas. Yes, we fondly call it “KU,” but that doesn’t stand for Kansas University. It is the UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS.

As a Jayhawk myself, I don’t know anybody who left Lawrence for a summer at home with the ‘rents unless they absolutely, positively had no other choice. I knew people who even took summer school to avoid going home.

It’s probably not too late to enroll for summer school, Caitlin. I’m sure they even still have spaces in the Daisy Hill dorms. And Western Civ is so much less painful when they cram it into eight weeks instead of sixteen! Stay in Larryville!

Amanda Says:

May 9th, 2008, 16:23 pm

I’ve been reading your blog for months now, and I had NO CLUE your daughter goes to KU!! My sister goes there, and I live about 30 minutes away. My family and I are huuuuge jayhawk fans! Lawrence is such a great town! Just sharing some KU enthusiasm :) Rock chalk!

gingerpeaches Says:

May 9th, 2008, 16:38 pm

I am reading this with interest. My oldest dd is coming home for the summer after getting suspended for the second time for her grades (for 6 months) at college. I want she and I to be there for each other and have mutual respect even though we are both upset right now, I love her alot.

dinkie Says:

May 9th, 2008, 17:28 pm

Dear Ralphie, by gummy-cracky, I suggest you go back to your underground bunker. From what you’ve said, you and Josef Fritzl would get on just fine. Now can we all just play nice and hope tomorrow’s installment doesn’t cause a similar case of apoplexy?

Longtime Reader Says:

May 9th, 2008, 17:34 pm

Wow. Several issues:

1. Article’s tone not great.

2. Reaction to it terrible–either they hate it or they are coming off as complete yelling weirdos who brag about slapping their kids. Yeah, you, Ralph Bloom. Very little rational discussion here.

3. I tried to comment but it didn’t show up, so don’t know if comments are having technical issues.

4. This article was posted 15 hours later on another blog. I sure hope it was a mistake and that the submitter did not lead two bloggers on with thinking they had exclusive access.

5. I did not like the article, but I do think that certain ground rules are important (and I don’t have issue with housework or curfew really). I don’t think the father writing here is treating his daughter like an adult though. No thoughts on privacy or respect. Calls her “child” in the headline. I suspect it will be an awkward summer. Good luck.

Ev Says:

May 9th, 2008, 17:55 pm

“This investment yields very, very favorable returns when we get to experience them as adults.” This is very true in my experience.