This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki

Vicki Davis (00:00): Cool Cat Teacher Talk, leading with love, our leadership series part two.

Announcer (00:08): Ever wondered how remarkable teaching happens? Find out right now at Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis. Get insights from top educators, tech tips, and inspiration to elevate your teaching.

Vicki Davis (00:21): Booker T. Washington said something about leadership. He said most leaders spend their time trying to get other people to think highly of them when what they should be doing is getting their people to think more highly of themselves. Think about that. It's not about others looking up at you as the leader. It's about others standing taller because you're in the room, helping them see the beauty in themselves. Last time on part one, we talked about who you're becoming as a leader. The idea that we decide who we want to be before we decide what we want to do. Today, we've got two women who lead with love. And before you decide that love is a soft word in that sentence, let me tell you, it's the hardest, most disciplined thing on this show.

Vicki Davis (01:07): Because both of my guests were named a 2026 National Principal of the Year, not because they were nice, but for results and for the numbers, but also for how they worked with the humans in the building. And when you ask them how they did it, they both say the same word, love. This is part two of our leadership series. It's leading with love. If you missed part one with Ronn Nozoe and Muriel Summers, go back and get it. It's the who you're becoming half. And this one is about how you live it out. Today, we're in the hallways at the rolling desk and in the hard conversation. So let's get started. Amanda Jamerson, she goes by AP, and online, she's AJAM the Advocate, is the associate principal at Shorewood High School in Wisconsin.

Vicki Davis (01:53): And she's the 2026 National High School Assistant Principal of the Year. Let's learn from Amanda.

Announcer (02:00): Cool Cat Teacher Talk, with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (02:04): Today we're talking with Amanda Jamerson, also known as AP Jamerson and known online as AJAM the Advocate. Now, today I will be calling her AJAM because that's her online presence, but a lot of the people around her call her AP, so you may hear both. She is an associate principal at Shorewood High School and the 2026 National High School Assistant Principal of the Year. She and her team built a restorative discipline framework that cut office referrals by 69% and a cell phone policy that actually worked. And she calls it heart work. Let's hear how she and her team did it. First of all, AJAM, why do you call this heart work?

Amanda J. Jamerson (02:56): First, thank you, Vicki, for having me. Super excited to have the opportunity to share about some of the amazing work happening in Shorewood School District. But more importantly, just the amazing work our students are doing, because it's our students who are doing the work and our staff who are doing it. And so that is why I say heart work because every day, you are not going to feel it. You're not going to feel excited. I know that it doesn't always feel good, but if you can go home every night knowing you've made a difference in your heart, that is what matters. I lead with my heart and my students know that. They know I'm always going to share that with them.

Amanda J. Jamerson (03:30): Like, hey, you could always talk to me. My door is always open. I don't sit in my office. I actually sit, if I am sitting in the main office, it's in the conference room or I have my rolling desk just so that students see me and they know that they can always talk to me about anything.

Vicki Davis (03:44): This is a big trend. The rolling desk. Explain what the rolling desk is.

Amanda J. Jamerson (03:49): So the rolling desk just allows me to be out more with students. And so we have a unique campus. So we actually have like five different buildings on our campus that classrooms are in. So it's kind of like a setup, like a college campus. And so what happens is I will roll and I'll get on the elevator, go up and down the floors and the different buildings just for kids to see me. But it's also like if I'm doing observations, I have all my things and I just can pop in. It doesn't feel weird for students to see me with that. It's actually funny because when we were introducing the cell phone policy that first year, students would see me collecting.

Amanda J. Jamerson (04:21): I have a little bag that I carry on my Roland desk and they'd be like, how many did you get today? Did you get 20? Because it became a cooler thing for them to see how many phones I was collecting because they knew that they were like, oh, my phone's in the caddy. That is like one of my favorite things about this, kids will just say, they'll even say the most random things to me, just like, oh, like, I have a fun fact for you. It is just because I'm just rolling in the hallway. And so I absolutely love the ability to do that. And just being present, because it again, reinforces hard work, where kids know like, okay, Ms.

Amanda J. Jamerson (04:52): Jamerson truly cares. And so like, even if I see them like doing something, I'll just give them my eye and I'll just look. And then they're like. Okay, I'll go.

Vicki Davis (05:00): So you have a cell phone policy that actually worked. And like you said, you're in five different buildings at my school. The kids have them up in their lockers, but you wanted them to have their phones going between the buildings. To describe your policy, How you made it work and any improvements since you did it?

Amanda J. Jamerson (05:15): We are seeing students talk to one another. We're seeing them actually engage, which to me is amazing in a high school. Especially having the different buildings, being able to walk into a classroom and seeing students actually talking to one another, even during an advisory timeframe where it's kind of relaxed. They're not just on their cell phones or on their devices. They're engaging with their peers, which is phenomenal across the board. But I would say what has made it work is our staff. Our staff and our community having that buy-in. We made sure that we involved stakeholders when we were creating the cell phone policy.

Amanda J. Jamerson (05:47): We knew it was a need because our staff kept letting us know, myself and my principal, they made it very clear like, hey, cell phones are an issue. And so we wanted a policy that would reinforce the expectation, but we also thought about safety. We do have the different buildings. And so what happens if a kid just is only able to keep it in their locker, their locker is in building B and they are in building C. So we've got about all of the complexities as it relates to that. And so we have cell phone caddies. They see their cell phone. They can look and see, OK, my cell phone is right here. You know, I have to put it in.

Amanda J. Jamerson (06:19): Teachers are able to check that off. Some teachers, they use that as their way to take attendance so students know, hey, I put my cell phone in the caddy, take a seat, and then the teacher is looking at the caddy as they're taking attendance. So they're making sure all the cell phones are up. The buy-in from staff was, it was pretty easy because staff wanted this. Parents actually, one of the feedback early on that we got was parents were like, well, what if I need to talk to my student during the day? Because I'm not. Anyone in education knows, especially in high school, parents do reach out to their students a lot during the school day.

Amanda J. Jamerson (06:52): And so we were like, hey, we'll have a phone in the main office. If you call and say you need them to give you a call, we'll get them from class. They can make that call. Go back to class. And that has not created any issues. Students are just coming down. They'll say, hey, I got to use the phone. I'll call my mom and go back to class. So that's been great.

Vicki Davis (07:10): And that's the way we did it for years, right?

Amanda J. Jamerson (07:13): Yes. And I was like, when I was a kid, I had to go to the main office to call home if I needed to call home for something. So we're just going back to that. But I think to students seeing that it's an expectation, every classroom has been key. So it's really reinforcing that to staff. And so when we wrote this out to staff, we wanted to make sure staff fully understood it. And so we did some different activities where we actually had to annotate the cell phone policy as it was written. And then we shared out different, like what we took from it as a staff. And they were in small groups. And then we did this as a large group to just share out and really discuss, okay, well, let's talk about this scenario.

Amanda J. Jamerson (07:48): What if this happens in my classroom? So now we're at the stage where students, if they forget or something happens, teachers will take it. They'll say, hey, it'll be in the main office. Kids know it'll be in the main office until the end of the day. Our families are amazing with the cell phone policy. Parents have like told me, I'm like, oh, they have to leave their cell phone with me. And the main office parents are like, you know what, Ms. Jamerson, you just won't bring it to school today because you shouldn't even have to do that. And I'm like, thank you. So we are seeing a lot of buy-in because parents know that we're holding all students accountable.

Amanda J. Jamerson (08:21): And so they want to make sure that their child is following that expectation. So it's been amazing.

Vicki Davis (08:26): You've also done some really awesome things with your discipline practices. So describe what you all have done and how does discipline look at your school and what changed?

Amanda J. Jamerson (08:39): This is ending my fifth year. And so in coming to Shorewood, one of the things I noticed right away, there were some wandering students. So students will wander in the hallways. So we revamped the attendance policy to make sure we have students in the classroom. And as soon as that occurred, I started to see a spike in our ODRs (office discipline referrals). And I knew what it was because most students who were typically wandering or leaving campus because it's open campus, they weren't in the classroom. Now that they were in the classroom, we were having some issues as it relates to behavior. So what I started to do in just preliminary things is talking to students.

Amanda J. Jamerson (09:13): So if a student got an ODR, so office discipline referral, I'd say, hey, did you realize that this was behavior infraction? Did you realize this is a code of conduct violation? Majority of the students who I talked to were like, I had no clue. And I was like, OK, that was the first entry into, OK, we're not we're not really teaching expectations or what behavior looks like or what even is a code of conduct violation. So one of the first things, like my secretary and I work together on this, is we give students assignment notebooks. So we were like, hey, let's just plop that in there. Let's make sure it's front and center so students are able to look at it.

Amanda J. Jamerson (09:48): And then we refer back to it when we do our class meetings as school-wide assemblies. And so that was just the catalyst so that kids even knew expectations. Because I am a big believer in if we've never taught something explicitly or we've never shared something explicitly, how do we expect for people to follow? And that's even just even my teachers like if I've never shown you how to do this or the why behind it I don't expect you to just. Fall in line and say okay we're going to do this and so that's one of those things that was really great to see but then also in talking to staff I wanted to understand why certain behaviors were accepted in classrooms and why certain ones weren't and so relationship was big so if a teacher had a relationship with a student they did have the ability to redirect a kid without it.

Amanda J. Jamerson (10:31): Or without them getting overwhelmed with the redirection because they're like, oh, I have this relationship with the student already established. Right away, I'm like, OK, well, we need to make sure this is more restorative. And so looking at all of the different pieces of feedback that I gathered from survey data to what are you seeing when I do parent reinstatement meetings. And that's still something that was done prior to the new policy for restorative, our restorative actions framework. And so, and even talking to parents, parents sharing, hey, I never even received a call from the teacher. I didn't know this was an issue in their classroom.

Amanda J. Jamerson (11:05): And then it came to the main office. Really being explicit in my expectations about, hey, we're going to call home. We're going to email home. We're going to make sure we do all of these proactive steps to make sure we're engaging our families and our community so that they understand what's happening in the classroom. And so what I love the most about it is there's a reteaching that occurs with the student and the teacher. And there's that small bit of time where the teacher and the student can work together and discuss what occurred and how there was harm in the classroom and look at moving forward together, which does not involve administration.

Amanda J. Jamerson (11:40): And so the kids just being sent to the AP students stay in the classroom. Teachers will say, hey, I want to talk to you after class or come see me at lunch. And they're able to have that conversation. And they're like, hey, I don't want this to have to go to administration. So kids feel validated in that because they feel like their teacher is actually taking the time to talk to them versus just saying, hey, go to administration. So we have like four levels. And then the fifth level is if this is like a reoccurring behavior, there is a ODR process because with all of the amazing things, things still happen. And so I'm a realist when it comes to that.

Amanda J. Jamerson (12:14): And so I always want to make sure I'm honest about that with staff. I'm not expecting any referrals to never be completed. I expect that we are going to get those. And so staff know that. And I want to know because I want to know about what's happening in the classroom. The end of the school year, a couple of weeks ago when I looked, we were at maybe 45 at most office discipline referrals. And so I just think about being in the 200, almost 300 to where we are now. It's really… Students are aware of expectations, but they're also a part of like, hey, why do we have this policy? Why is this in place? And so that, I think, is another layer that we have because, I still did all this work and it was great.

Amanda J. Jamerson (12:52): But then I noticed we saw some reoccurring students that were popping up. So I was like, okay, the student was already suspended or the student got an ODR in this class for this behavior. Another area that we added is we have the peer re-statement meeting, but we also now added a restorative action. So it's like a restorative reflection, essentially. And a student, when they are suspended, I look at whatever their code of conduct violation is, I look at the ODR, and then I work to create a reflection for them. So they have to literally sit down, complete this before they return to school. So we talk about that during the parent re-statement meeting with their parent present.

Amanda J. Jamerson (13:28): And it's a shared document between myself and the student. We talk about who did they cause harm to, who do they need to talk to, and how do they repair that harm. What I can truly say is we've had some more uncomfortable topics that I've had to work through with students. What I can say is the learning that they've received from that and what they understand now and just how their words and how they can be harmful to certain groups of people has been really amazing to see, just students being able to be like, wow. I knew this was wrong to say, but I never knew why it was wrong to say. Now I understand why this is so horrible to say.

Amanda J. Jamerson (14:01): And that to me is the real work. So that's why I say it's hard work, because that to me is a character. We've changed character for that. That student is now going to always think about, okay, wait, this could be harmful. This could really cause harm to someone. And because they're high schoolers, everything is funny. Everything is funny until it causes harm. So that is where I'm really working together and getting feedback. I'm all about like, hey, let's revamp it. Like, hey, you want to change this? Let's do this. And explicitly another thing to add is on the process for teachers that they have, the document they have, it actually gives them verbatim, wording they can use because we all know when those feelings are high and things are happening and you're frustrated, like, you know what?

Amanda J. Jamerson (14:43): I don't know how to say this and how it's going to come across. And so I wanted to explicitly give them language because that's something teachers share is like, hey, when I'm really elevated and I feel like this student is not listening, I might just say like, you know what, I'm done with this today. Instead of saying I'm done with this, you can look at this document and it's in all of the classrooms and they can literally just read off of it and say what they need to say to a student. And it's aligned to our restorative actions framework. so that students, again, it's more restorative. It is not further putting them in silos where they feel as if, oh, I'm part of this group that's always in trouble.

Amanda J. Jamerson (15:21): It's been amazing to see.

Vicki Davis (15:22): So AJAM, you're on social media and you see all of the stuff that's there about restorative practices put in schools and it doesn't work. I know we're not going to criticize anyone's school or anyone's situation, but why do you think in general that schools are getting wrong, that are struggling with restorative practices. Because you see it, a teacher sends a kid out and they come back with a lollipop going, oh man, I got some candy. I don't think that's what restorative is about, is it?

Amanda J. Jamerson (15:51): No, no, not at all. I think what a lot of times is the hustle and bustle of education. We are always moving. We are always shifting with different priorities and different things that are of need. And so I think sometimes what happens is You learn something in August And then September is okay You get a few things But it's okay October You're like Oh the honeymoon is over. And everything you've learned, you kind of are like, okay, I don't remember it anymore. So it's really reinforcing that for staff and then also reinforcing that for students. Always going back to that, but also truly understanding explicitly what this means, how it looks, sounds, and feels.

Amanda J. Jamerson (16:26): And I'm big on that with staff is, okay, let's stop now. Let's now let's role play. Let's look at this together. Let's look at some different scenarios. How would this scenario play out in your classroom? Because the more that we use real life scenarios, we're able to then practice those in real time and internalize them where it becomes like, and I know it's different for everyone because there are some that I have to be like, hey, just a reminder, like, you know, follow this. But one thing I always say, and my supervisor is the same way, we're always, when we have our staff meetings, we're like, hey, looked in the contact log, making sure you're contacting home because staff know, and this is my thing.

Amanda J. Jamerson (17:04): If I look in the contact log, if you send me an ODR for a student and I look in the contact log and I've not seen that you've contacted home, then I'm not going to do anything with that ODR because we have to follow and do our steps as the adults, as the lead learners in the space. We have to follow that because if we're not doing that, then how do we expect our students to? I have an amazing staff who are totally behind it. We have even started to look at our behavior intervention plans for students and looking at them from a restorative lens and how we have our restorative actions framework set up and just making sure we're mirroring some of those things.

Amanda J. Jamerson (17:39): So what does that look like, sound like, feel like for a student? So if a student does this, what is the staff's reaction in real time? What are we giving them? So I think what happens is the learning stops sometimes. It's like I learned this, I had this one great PD about restorative practices and all of these things and then it goes away. I also know. If administration is not following the same steps every single time, then it does create those inequities. So staff sometimes can feel, well, if you aren't doing this, then why do I have to do it? I'm big on communication with staff, so I'll follow up just a quick email.

Amanda J. Jamerson (18:12): Hey, just an FYI, I know this is an issue in your class. I talk to the student. These are my next steps. So staff know in real time what I'm also doing. I've done more this year, actually, than I've ever done. It's like lunch detention. We have open campus lunch, so students love to leave. I'm like, hey, well, you know what? I think this is causing an issue. How about you do detention with me? Like lunch detention. And the amount of kids who do not want a lunch detention, I'm amazed. Like, they're like, I mean, I got to do lunch attention. And I literally see them once for lunch attention, never again. And so what I've found is like, that's a great time because I'm keeping them in, they're not leaving out.

Amanda J. Jamerson (18:50): And so sometimes even if they like, hey, you didn't finish this test you needed. I'm like, you know what, since you're already in here, you might as well just do it with me. You might as well just do the test. It also creates an opportunity for me to just build that relationship with that student for them to see, hey, I'm not suspending you from school, which, you know, some instances I could, I'm like, hey, how about you just do this lunch attention or going back to our cell phone policy, I will just take your phone. I'll keep your phone for two days. They get it at the end of the school day, but it's like they return it back at 8 a.m.

Amanda J. Jamerson (19:24): the next morning. And what I can say is our student body does amazing with that. And I love it because it reinforces that they are following expectations. Even one student, I was like, I'm going to take your cell phone. He was like, that's fair, Ms. Chamberson. I understand. Okay, that's fair. To hear that from a high school mom, he was like, that's fair. I understand. Just the fact that students are able to have those conversations are now just becoming amazing for us as a building. AJAM,

Vicki Davis (19:50): I find it amazing that you can be positive and upbeat on the last day of school. Yeah,

Amanda J. Jamerson (19:55): I'm excited. We're ending out and we have graduation on Sunday, so that's always fun for me. I love the energy that we're going to see with our community and students. When we conclude, I'll be practicing names because I read all the names. So I'll be going to make sure I'm ready for that. But yes, keeping the energy high is important. We have to, but it's also recharging.

Vicki Davis (20:16): Wonderful. So we've been talking with Amanda Jamerson, AP Jamerson, known online as AJAM, the advocate. She's associate principal at Shorewood High School and 2026 National High School Assistant Principal of the Year. So AJAM, congratulations and thanks for sharing all this on the show.

Amanda J. Jamerson (20:40): Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.

Announcer (20:43): Cool Cat Teacher Talk, with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (20:47): So here's the line from Amanda that I want to pull from that interview. If we've never taught something explicitly, how do we expect people to follow it? Even our teachers. She said if a teacher sends her a discipline referral but hasn't called the students home yet, she doesn't act on it. Because adults follow the steps first. We're the lead learners, she said. But if we won't do the thing we're asking of them, we've got no business asking. So that's leadership as a mirror. You go first, you do the hard, unglamorous, do-it-yourself work before you ask somebody else. And that heart, that I'll do it first and I'll do it for you, is exactly how our next guest leads a middle school.

Vicki Davis (21:34): She just says it in two languages. Sonia Ruiz is the 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year. She leads Jane Addams Middle School in Bolingbrook, Illinois. She was recognized because her English learners and her students with IEPs (Individualized Education Programs) are making real measurable gains. And her school has earned exemplary status three years running. When you ask Sonia her secret, she says it plainly, con corazón, with heart. That's how she leads. And she'll tell you why it's personal. Today we are talking with Sonia Ruiz, the 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year in the United States. Sonia leads Jane Addams Middle School in Bolingbrook, Illinois, recognized in part because her English learners and her students with IEPs are making real, measurable gains.

Vicki Davis (22:25): She will tell you straight up why we've got to do it with love. Sonia, congratulations for being named the 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year. Could you describe what went through your mind?

Sonia E. Ruiz (22:39): I was named in person. I have one for my state, for Illinois, so I knew going out there I was getting an award for that. In February, I was asked to be part of a webinar similar to this, but it was a panel. That is when I was informed that I was one of three finalists in Washington. I was not prepared to hear that I was going to be the winner of 2026. It was pretty exciting, humbling. I just never imagined that a kid like me, where I never felt like the system was made for me, that I would be here now as the winner.

Vicki Davis (23:11): You are four years into Jane Addams. When you walked in that first year, what did the school feel like and what's different now?

Sonia E. Ruiz (23:19): This school has always had a history of excellence. It is a very diverse school and a community that is very diverse. I remember coming to the interview and after meeting the staff feeling like whoever gets that principalship is going to have a great place to work at. So I'm going to tell you, there were some things already that were in place that made it great. And the people are one of them. So I was excited to be here. This school in this district, their values match mine. And sometimes that's difficult to find. We were coming out of COVID a couple years when I started here. So there were some things we needed to change.

Sonia E. Ruiz (23:56): The demographics of our students has continually changed. And that's the thing with education. You have to make sure that everybody in the building is meeting the needs of the students that you have now. So you might have been doing something that worked fantastic a couple years ago with the students you had before. You have to continually see where do I need to do or sharpen my skills to make sure that I'm helping the students that are here now. Big thing for us was making sure students felt like they belong, that they were seen, heard. With everything that happened after COVID, that was one of the initiatives that we had.

Sonia E. Ruiz (24:32): So most school improvement plans actually just have math and reading. For us, it was important to not just have the academic and learning portion, but also the environment and the equitable practices that we were having in the building. So that's where we started, because if we don't have the mindset that all of our students can grow, then we're going to have a lot of time. It's hard for them. And if our kids don't feel like they belong here, then it's going to be difficult for them as well. So we wanted to make sure that kids from the minute they walked in knew that the people that were here are here because we care for them.

Sonia E. Ruiz (25:09): And in that same vein, it isn't just about emotions, right? So it's also making sure that we have a high quality education for the students that come here. And then we have high expectations for them because I know that they can do it. So those were some of the things that I think made a difference. This last year, but really, I think the work that we've done moves beyond just CERN students. Part of it, like I said, was the belonging, making sure we were here, creating an MTSS (Multi-Tiered System of Supports) system to ensure that we had the intervention students need or support if we're not getting it at universal level one. So we've just seen so much growth within our system, our staff and the interventions that we provide.

Sonia E. Ruiz (25:50): So it's been fantastic to be able to look back at all the things that we've been able to do in the last four years. And even with that mindset, so like, OK, so what are we going to do even better next year?

Vicki Davis (26:02): When you say we've got to do it with love, what does that look like?

Sonia E. Ruiz (26:06): The best way that I can say it is I'm a mom myself. Right. And when you send your children to a school, you want to make sure that the people that are there care for your kids. So I care for every student that walks in our building. I care for who they are right now, and I care for who they're going to be in the future. In Spanish, there is a term that says, like with heart. And that's really what that kind of means.

Vicki Davis (26:29): I love that. So when you stand up in front of your new teachers that you hire for next year, and you try to bring them on board with what your culture is going to look like, what do you say first?

Sonia E. Ruiz (26:41): Well, I do this even at our every institute just because our kids, They don't get a choice what school they go to. The students that come in through that door, it's because we're in this neighborhood. So they get to come to us. We're here to service them. So regardless of their background, how they look, what languages they speak, we got to make sure that we make a place and make it a place where people feel like they belong, but also care enough to stay with the things that we know work and that we're making sure students are learning and providing our staff with the strategies they need to make sure that they're the best educators that they can be.

Sonia E. Ruiz (27:18): Wherever in between, if there are students who need additional help or things of that nature, then we're here to do that. Our school, you know, when I said it's very diverse, it's also diverse in the programs that we have within our schools. We have students with different abilities. We have a program. We're five middle schools in our district. We're the only district that has like students with multiple abilities where they may have like wheelchairs or they may have like Down syndrome, things of that nature. So that program has continually grown since I've been here. This next upcoming year, we're going to have six classrooms of multi-need students at the middle level.

Sonia E. Ruiz (27:56): I think one thing that I'm really proud of what our staff and our students do is making sure that our school is inclusive of everybody. So if I was talking to new teachers or our staff, it's to look at our system and say, hey, When we make this decision, who is it affecting? What's the impact? Even little things people may think are little, but to us, we've seen that it make a difference. Like an assembly. What are the games they're playing? Will there be opportunities for our different students of different abilities to play? You know, where is everybody seated? Who's seated within? That's what kind of looking at inclusivity.

Sonia E. Ruiz (28:32): If we're having an after school dance, if we have a dance, is that open to everybody? Does everybody like noise, right? Some don't. So with the dance, we might also have our library open where kids can go and play board games for those that don't want to be around the music, but still want the social aspect of it. So just different ways that you can look at your daily practices and seeing, are we being inclusive within our building so that it is a place for everybody? So it's really looking at all different things. The other thing that we did that I think that we, you know, when we finished off the year, our last day was the 22nd.

Sonia E. Ruiz (29:08): Four years ago when we started, a lot of times schools give different surveys to see what the culture is like. But many of those are like Likert scale. So like you either agree, disagree, those types. You don't really get the information of when those kids say, no, I don't think this is a great place. So I don't feel like I belong. What does that mean? Right. We created our own form that we've been giving the last four years to get their voice. And it's what things make you feel like they belong, right? And like list them out so that they can put them there. And if there was one thing you wish people in this building knew about you, what would that be?

Sonia E. Ruiz (29:45): And you'd be amazed how much they share through that. And then it gives us an opportunity to know, are the things that we're saying we should be doing, are those the things we should be investing since that makes a difference for the kids or not, you know? So that's another way of making sure that we're being open and changing things through student voice.

Vicki Davis (30:05): I love that because you say these are small things, but these are actually huge things. If somebody doesn't want to be around the music, they're going to have to choose between being around people. Who are in the presence of music or not. So you're giving them a space and you're including them. I mean, that's actually a huge deal to consider how can we include our students. Now, you are known for your gains with English learners and students with IEPs. Like you have national attention. When you look at your numbers, what do you see without using their name? Tell me about some of the kids that are in your mind of like, okay, this is what my amazing teachers did to try to reach kids, and this is what it looks like on a daily basis.

Sonia E. Ruiz (30:50): So exemplary in our state measures many things, the proficiency in ELA (English Language Arts), in math, but also the growth of when students come here. So one of the things that we've been able to show is regardless of what level our students start in sixth grade. By the time they leave in eighth grade, we were at 80-something percent proficiency, which is unbelievable.

Vicki Davis (31:14): Wow. Regardless

Sonia E. Ruiz (31:15): of where they started. So we know that when they're here, they're going to grow. But we also know we can't do it alone. It takes everybody. It takes every staff member. It takes all our counselors. It takes every single person to do specific things. This last year, yes, our focus was EL and our students with IEPs. And we were very strategic. We partnered up with our district office and they came and gave PD along with our coach. To our staff when we were have our monthly meetings. So we would not just teach them, but actually go through the strategy with them. Then go, part of me and my assistant principal is we're visible in the classrooms.

Sonia E. Ruiz (31:54): So then we would go and do learning walks based on the things we said, hey, we just learned this strategy. We want to see, are we seeing, for example, academic discourse in the classrooms? Are those things happening? Then we would give our entire instructional team, our BIT team, would come together after a semester and look at, well, we're really good at this, but we still need to get better at this. It's like a continuous cycle of improvement. What are we doing? How is it working? So when I think about students, it's hard to say like this one kid because it's so overall. I can think of our students have been affected for like our MTSS, where we had one student that just graduated.

Sonia E. Ruiz (32:35): When he was here, He was chronically absent when he started in sixth grade. I remember him being with our counselor and we had to basically create these systems to just try to get him to class that sixth grade year. And by eighth grade, because of the interventions, because he did need additional help in reading, he needed additional help in math, he was getting that intervention within the school day. Along with what we call a lead advisory. So we had advisories, this particular one took students who also had behavior issues and really turned the mindset of like them taking ownership for their goals and what they were going to do for school and their academics and their behaviors at school and started giving them the skills to become mentors to the younger generation.

Sonia E. Ruiz (33:22): That particular student graduated and he was no longer chronically absent. He was passing his classes. He was being successful. It isn't a one thing because I think of all the different things that different teachers did to help him throughout. Right. So his last ELA and ESL and special education teacher, I remember going in because he was super proud of me coming to hear him read. And they were kind of doing reading, but in a theater style format where you take one of the characters and you're reading those parts. When he first started reading in that class, he took like the shorter passages. By the end, he was presenting on things, you know, and that's what we want to see.

Sonia E. Ruiz (34:02): It's like, so regardless of where they are, we know they're going to grow with us. And I think that that motivates us as well because we know something's happening.

Vicki Davis (34:12): So, Sonia, if you could go back to Sonia's first day. And give her advice, what would you tell her?

Sonia E. Ruiz (34:22): I would tell her, don't waver. Continue and persevere. The things that you think are going to be great are going to be great. So just keep working with that.

Vicki Davis (34:32): You know, isn't it difficult when you come into a new school? Why do you think that you had success so quickly? Was it just the school was already great and you came in, but you know, there's principals who go into schools that are already great and it ends up tough. So what are the things that you do on a daily basis that you think, hey, I do think this makes a difference?

Sonia E. Ruiz (34:51): I think it's a combination of things. I think it's important to be somewhere, again, where your ideals do match the school that you're at, right? And second, I think it's my approach. I am a very collaborative type of leader, the same way that I feel that students need to get a new chance every day. Every day is a new opportunity for them. I have that same type of mentality with my staff. Every day is a new day. And if you maybe missed it one day, we're going to do better the next day. I think we have to support each other and believe in each other because it would be hard to move an entire staff or students if you're coming in with an attitude already defeated or being negative about the work.

Sonia E. Ruiz (35:31): So as a leader anywhere, you need to come believing that the people that you have are the right people in the right spots to make the change they need to. And if they're not, then what are you doing to help them? I think it still falls on you as a leader, but you can't do this job alone. So I can't just make decisions by myself. I also have to value because of the school and what they were doing really well. Many of the things that we started knew We first analyze and assess. It wasn't like, oh, you're doing this wrong. Let's just change it. It would be like, what are we doing as an empty assessor when we first started?

Sonia E. Ruiz (36:07): And there were little things that they were doing as a school, but we used a rubric and that takes it away from the people, right? Because you don't want to hurt anybody's feelings about anything if they were used to doing something. You also, again, want to change with the times and the students that you have. So being open to those changes. As a team, we came up with our own vision and mission. And then that led the work, right? So that it was making sure that we were Equipping the staff with the things that they needed to do. And the staff is our human resource. So we were providing interventions. Some of them started learning how to do circles or how to run things so that it wasn't just our counselors, so that we could be more effective and provide more things.

Sonia E. Ruiz (36:51): That's just one example. We do check and connect. Then finding the strengths of different people, because there's many leaders within the school, but I think together we come together and make it even better. A good leader is like a coach where you see where those all the different pieces are and how do we use everybody's strengths at the right spot. And it isn't about ego because we do have certain people like our coaches or interventionists who are running certain meetings and that's their strength because that's what they're seeing. And it's okay to come in and be a participant of the group and not the one guiding it, you know.

Sonia E. Ruiz (37:27): Obviously offering some input on certain things, but those are the things that I think make people follow the leader because then they feel like, okay, she's open to ideas. She's able to hear us. And then I also have this mentality. I tell the staff like, okay, we just try that. So how do we do this better next year? And again, because we have to continue to grow and every year is different. This year, for example, we had many students who were newcomers or were Spanish speaking was their first language. Normally, we have students who need that program. They go to a different school, even though we're at home school.

Sonia E. Ruiz (38:02): Parents still have the choice if they wanna stay in their home school, which some have. Because although that program is another school, the principals and administration did not speak the language. Some parents within the community talk and then they'll be like, oh, I want her in your program. It'll be like, well, I speak Spanish, but my staff does not. But again, I think it's partnering with our district office. We still were able to provide our students with different supports than normally we were not doing before, but because they were different students. So they provided us with iPads that translated the material and did different things.

Sonia E. Ruiz (38:39): And one particular student I'm thinking of, as you mentioned, I just can't believe her growth from when she started last summer to this year. And she's only been here one year. And I think that's what makes it great. And then just reminding people of that, because we forget sometimes when things are hard, right? So then it's like, no, look, that kid grew this much. Remember when they were in sixth grade? Look at where they are now.

Vicki Davis (39:04): That's wonderful. I love celebrating those wins. Sonia, could you give us one thing, like one small little doable thing that a teacher or principal could do if they were in school tomorrow morning to make one more kid feel like they belonged in that classroom?

Sonia E. Ruiz (39:20): I think the number one thing is stopping and really finding out about that student, like have a conversation with them. Some of the kids in that Google form that we've asked, when we ask what makes you feel like they belong, is They asked me beyond what's going on in school. They asked me about things outside of here. And I think they noticed that and they call me by name because you're just not another face. They know that you've taken the time to get to know them, who they are, and what they do outside of school also matters. So then you start feeling like a regular person, right? Like when you say I belong here, you're really saying me, Sonia, not some other student.

Sonia E. Ruiz (40:00): So, taking the time to get to know the students by name and asking them questions beyond what's going on in school.

Vicki Davis (40:07): So, Sonia, you're leading a middle school in 2026. You have phones, you have AI, you have mental health. All of these things, these pressures that kids feel, they are very real. What is one thing that you wish… That adults outside of schools understood about what middle school teachers are actually walking into every day?

Sonia E. Ruiz (40:28): I'm going to say of all the different age groups, middle school is the hardest. Students who are in this age group are going from looking at the world through black and white lenses, right? This is what my parents say, or this is what my school says. There's no question about it. When you get to junior high, you get the part of your brain that starts now analyzing and questioning things. It is just part of that particular age group and the way your brain works at that time. So they're just figuring it out. So it's really hard to find your voice and advocate for yourself as a student because you're just finding out that now as I'm critically thinking, things aren't black and white.

Sonia E. Ruiz (41:09): There are other facets and I have to figure that out and navigate all that along with all the hormones that are coming and I may react a certain way when they hurt my feelings and social media doesn't help because things don't disappear there are many people putting their own opinion on what they think something occurred or assumptions which makes it even harder and although as adults we might think oh that's that's that's nothing to them, it's the whole world. So I think as an educator in the middle school level, you really have to learn how to navigate that through that, help students how to navigate through that, and be a support through them so they can get through that.

Sonia E. Ruiz (41:49): That's why it's amazing to see the growth from when they started sixth graders versus eighth grade, and then they're ready to go to high school because they're at a whole different level because they've been able to Adjust, find their voice, and interact with everybody else at this level.

Vicki Davis (42:06): What a delightful conversation. We've been talking with Sonia Ruiz, a 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year. Sonia, thanks for coming on the show and giving us kind of a glimpse into what you're doing at Jane Addams Middle School in Bolingbrook, Illinois. Thanks, Sonia.

Sonia E. Ruiz (42:25): Thank you so much. Have a great day. Full

Announcer (42:28): Cool Cat Teacher Talk, with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (42:32): The great leaders are like a coach. That leader can see where all the different pieces are, and they figure out how to use everybody's strengths. And the best leaders, it isn't about ego. Sonia said that. Ron, in part one of this series, called leadership a we thing. And Muriel said every child and every grown-up has genius. Amanda calls her whole practice heart work. And Sonia leads con corazón with heart. Three leaders in three different buildings, but one word, love. So I'd like to tell you some stories before we finish today's episode, because stories is how we process, like, what does this look like to be a leader?

Vicki Davis (43:12): So we've talked about a lot of data on this show, office referrals being down 70%, proficiency numbers up into the 80s, exemplary status three years running. And data is awesome. I teach computer science, but even when we talk data, we're still talking about humans. Every number in a spreadsheet at your school has a name and a face in a backpack. And even when we talk tools, and you know I love tools, ultimately, it's always about humans. I believe the educators and the leaders who are going to be excellent in the years ahead are the ones who understand this. Tools are useful. Humans are priceless. So let's talk about what this looks like.

Vicki Davis (43:54): Years ago, my son John came home on the first day of school, and he just lit up about one of his teachers. He was like, she's really interesting. I'm going to love her class. So me being the teacher I am, I said, hey, what did she do? And I thought she must have given some amazing lecture on literature. No, she had the students draw a coat of arms for themselves on poster paper about what mattered to them, divided into different areas. So one might be about a hobby and one might be about something else. In one of those squares, John drew Minecraft because at the time in his life, Minecraft mattered to him. When she stopped at his desk, she talked with him about that.

Vicki Davis (44:37): Minecraft had his heart. Miss Shealy ended up with his heart because she talked to him about something he loved. He felt seen and he had a connection and he walked in the door talking about it. But here's what I've noticed. Kids rarely change the opinion they form on the first day of school. I know that if I can connect with a student early, preferably on that first day, and know them and see them and learn what they love, it makes all the difference for the whole year. This is why, if at all possible, the kids shouldn't miss that first day, because so many teachers are really trying to get to know the students. Research backs this up.

Vicki Davis (45:19): Psychologist Roy Baumeister reviewed the studies on belongingness, and he found that many of the strongest emotions we feel, both positive and negative, are influenced by how connected we are to the other people in that environment. So here's what he wrote, that people need, quote, frequent positive interactions with the same individual, and they need those interactions in a framework of long-term stable caring and concern. Okay, this goes every different direction, whether it's your colleague or your principal or your other teachers. Frequent positive interactions. Long-term stable caring and concern. That is the classroom.

Vicki Davis (45:59): That's our job description. But that's also with the leaders. And I think about when I really struggled with my principal or my boss. You know, we have to manage up. There's books on that. And part of that is what is my interaction with them like? Am I actually going to them and saying positive things that happen? Or I don't want to always be down when I'm talking to my leaders. But connection isn't only built on the first day. A lot of times, strongest connection is built on the hardest days. Let me give you an example. When I find out that there's a new baby at a student's house, I ask that student a question. What can I do for you about what we're doing this week in class?

Vicki Davis (46:43): Because I know the parents may be the ones up at 2 a.m. holding the baby, but that sibling is in their bed down the hall listening to the baby cry, and nobody in that house is sleeping. Sometimes the student just says, okay, no, I'm tired and I'm not at my best. Sometimes they might say, Miss Davis, you know that big project at the end of the week? Could you give me a few more days? I am worn out. And as long as it isn't the end of the grading period, I try to give that. Because here's what happens. A student gets their rest and they come back better than ever. You know, we have concussion protocols, but even an injury or something really busy in sports or theater week, I give the students choices and say, hey, do you want to turn it in early or later?

Vicki Davis (47:32): And that flexibility lets my students know that they're being seen, they're feeling heard, they're being noticed. And when you have that connection with a student, you can see it in their eyes. But I have fallen short many times. Every so often, there's been a student I just did not connect with. Mostly, it's the student who's absent a lot. They miss those foundational moments that I build into the program and building at the start. And when they come back, it is a mistake for me to be so stressed about them making up their work that I don't slow down and get to know them. I remember one time a boy missed the first two weeks of school, and I know that was not a great start.

Vicki Davis (48:16): There was some things going on, but I just rushed him and he never felt connected. And his mom told me that. So I own that. And I've tried to learn through the years to be really careful about that first connection with my students and the parents. So my first priority is the human connection every day. I try to call that child by name when they come in. I look them in the eye. I notice if they're tired. I say, hey, you tired today? And they'll say, oh, I had a late game last night. That helps me. But they know that I see them. And then when I struggle, they see me. But you know, this is not just about students. This is about the grownups too.

Vicki Davis (48:58): Shawn Achor in The Happiness Advantage, which was my book of the year last year, I gave it to all the seniors that I taught. He points to a study of over 350 employees and 60 business units. And the greatest predictor of a team's achievement was not the individual skills of its members. It was about how the members felt about each other Google found the same thing when it spent two years studying its own teams. The best teams weren't the ones with the biggest brains in the room. They were the ones where everybody felt safe enough to speak up and everybody felt heard. Researchers who followed hundreds of Chicago schools for years found this pattern in the K-12 world too.

Vicki Davis (49:42): The schools that improve are the schools where the adults trust each other. So think about what Amanda told us. Her discipline framework works because the teacher and the student already have a relationship. And think about what Sonia said. She can't move a building alone, so she finds everybody's strengths and helps put them in the right spots. So this brings us to the 1980 hockey team for the U.S. Herb Brooks was building the U.S. Olympic hockey team to face a Soviet team that had dominated the sport for a generation. And when Brooks made his cuts, he passed over some big name talent. The story goes that his assistant questioned him about it.

Vicki Davis (50:23): And Brooks said, I'm not looking for the best players. I'm looking for the right ones. And a whole bunch of American college kids went to Lake Placid and beat the best team in the world. We call it the miracle on ice, but it wasn't magic. It was a coach who understood that the right humans who trust each other will beat the best resumes every single time. I can hear some of you driving right now going, Vicki, this sounds beautiful, but you don't know what happened to me. You don't know what was said about me. And no, I do not know. But I do know how trust gets broken between humans in every school building and home in America and around the world.

Vicki Davis (51:06): And there's one tool that can help repair it. So I need to tell you one of my favorite stories that I always tell my students and teachers from Will Rogers. So if you've heard of Will Rogers, he was a famous cowboy of yesteryear. And he once said, I never met a man I didn't like. And he was known for loving people. He was just friendly and really affable. But there's a story he told about something that happened on his ranch that has stuck with me all these years. Will Rogers had a large ranch and a lot of cows. Now, I have worked with cows on our farms, and I can tell you, cows can be really challenging, and it's always that one that just does not behave, and they get out.

Vicki Davis (51:49): I remember when I was pregnant with our oldest son, and I was chasing a cow across Highway 19. That was no fun, and it was scary, and I don't recommend it, okay? But Will Rogers had a cow get out, and even more than that, He found out that there was a farmer and he heard that his cow got over there. So he grabbed his favorite right-hand man and they got on their horses. They were riding out to where this farmer had the cow. And the bad weather starts coming in and they start seeing ice. Well, by the time they get there, there is a mom and two kids at the door. And it's really starting to turn bad. And the mom says, oh, come in, come in.

Vicki Davis (52:31): We're so glad you're here the weather's about to turn you're gonna have to stay overnight and he said yeah and the little kid said it's okay our dad has a cow and he's in the barn butchering the cow will's farmhand looked at him and like raised his eyebrows they knew who that cow belonged to so later the dad came in after the mom had told him they needed some more meat and had these beautiful steaks and they cooked it they had a great dinner the farmhand kept looking at will Rogers, thinking, you know what, he's going to say something, and he never did. So the next morning, they got up and drank their coffee, and they got ready to leave.

Vicki Davis (53:13): And they got on their horses, and they just left. Never said anything about the cow. Well, he and the ranch hand get a little away from the house, and it was really, really quiet, and the farm hand turned to Will Rogers and said, you know, that was your cow. And Will Rogers said, yep. The farmhand said, well, why didn't you say anything? And Will Rogers thought for a moment and he turned to the farmhand and said, you know what? The way I see it, I traded that cow for a little bit of happiness. Now, why am I telling you a story about a cow in a snowstorm in Will Rogers? There are times when you are right and you have been treated wrongly.

Vicki Davis (53:54): Somebody did the wrong thing. Somebody made the wrong decision. Somebody misjudged you. or they hurt you. And if you've been teaching at the same school for more than a year or really more than a month, I promise you that when you start the school year or even when you go back to school, you're gonna be starting with a cow that somebody killed of yours. It's not a real cow, but they've wronged you. And you have a choice. You can go after this person and you can hold them accountable and stay angry. Now, there are times for accountability and I'm not arguing against accountability. But in a big school, there's a lot of opportunity to get your feelings hurt.

Vicki Davis (54:37): And there are times where you have to choose to trade the cow for happiness. You can choose to forgive. You can choose to let go of the bitterness and the anger and the resentment. So here's what I've learned in my more than two decades in schools. When I am a bitter person, I can't get better. I can't innovate. I can't create. I'm so busy being angry about that cow that I can't let it go. I've always read that being angry and resentful is like drinking poison and wishing the other person would die. It doesn't work. You can't leave people with love while you're still carrying that cow. And a whole lot of forgiveness has to happen in classrooms.

Vicki Davis (55:19): So let's circle back. Booker T. Washington said most leaders spend their time trying to get other people to think highly of them. When what they should be doing is getting their people to think more highly of themselves. Muriel put that sign over the doorway, you're seen, you're known, you're loved. Amanda calls it heart work. Sonia leads Corazon. This week, you and I get to decide whether the people in our buildings walk a little taller because we were in the room. We're about to be handed more powerful tools than any generation of educators has had. And we're going to use them. We have to remember, tools are useful, humans are priceless.

Vicki Davis (56:00): Get to know the names. Ask them about Minecraft or whatever it is they really like. Ask what you can do about this week. When somebody kills your cow, think about trading it. You can find both parts of this leadership series at coolcatteacher.com/becoming. Because as I said at the opening of this, I've worked for some of the best principals and some of the worst. And a lot of times those were the same people. Sometimes the worst became the best. Sadly, sometimes the best became the worst. So the question is, who are you becoming? You becoming a better leader? Because there's no such thing as holding steady. We're either improving relationships or they're getting worse.

Vicki Davis (56:44): Sometimes when we get tired and stressed and upset, we make mistakes and we forget to connect. Because a lot of times it's not just what we do, it's how we do it. So I really want you, as you go into your school, to remember, You make such a difference. Now, I remember one time there was some huge controversy going up in the front office in one of my schools. and so upset about it. I was talking to my mom and she said, okay, Vicki, I want you to listen to this. Whatever's going on in the front office, when you close that door, you make the weather in your classroom. And whether you take all that front office junk going on into your classroom with you is up to you.

Vicki Davis (57:27): You need to leave it in the hall and close the door because for some kids, that moment with you is their happiest time of the day and you need to leave it out there in the hallway. Man, that was such a good advice from my mom. So I'm Vicki Davis, and you've been listening to Cool Cat Teacher Talk. Ask yourself today, what kind of leader am I becoming? I hope to see you next week on this station. See you later, educator.

Announcer (57:56): Follow @coolcatteacher everywhere you connect.

Vicki Davis: Today on Tech Tool Tuesday, we're talking about vibe coding for Gemini for teachers with Alice Keeler. Remember, go to the webpage for this episode for a lot of amazing resources at coolcatteacher.com forward slash E966.

Announcer: This is the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis: I am so excited today to be talking with my friend Alice Keeler. She is the queen of spreadsheets and yes, Google gave her that name and she has her cat on camera. For those of you who are watching YouTube, well, I am the cool cat teacher, so there you go. She is a mom of five, author of eight books. She blogs at alicekeeler.com. She has an AI teacher toolbox that you definitely want to check out at educatoraiassistant.com. It not only creates lesson plans rubrics, but it collects no data. All of her data collection-free add-ons are at alicekeeler.com. Forward slash codedbyalice. You sent me a text the other day that said, how many? 37. 37 add-ons.

Alice Keeler: And it just feels like so many, I can't keep track. I'm like, is it really that many?

Vicki Davis: Yeah. And you start as a math teacher.

Alice Keeler: I taught myself to code. And now with Vibe Coding, I'm killing it with the Vibe Coding. So Vibe Coding would be that when you use AI to code. So I go to Google Gemini and I'm like, this is what I want. I code Google Workspace, right? So Google Docs, Google Sheets, Google Slides. I know how to code. So my prompts are pretty good. This is what I want the add-on to do. Honestly, Vicki, the other day, it was really disappointing because it worked the first time. No edits. I'm like, how boring is that? But it also is like, how quickly can I get out new features and improve the functionality and things that I kind of know about, but I don't know? I can actually incorporate those things really quickly into my add-ons and into my code. So Vibe Coding is coding with AI. So it took me two days to create this AI teacher toolkit. So what I wanted to do is to have something that collects no data. I feel very squishy about all of these products that have seemed to have popped up over the last year. There's some rumors about some companies just signing whatever the schools give them. But are they? I mean, it's easy to sign something, but what are they really doing with your data? So I want my toolbox to be small. I don't want to sign up for 10,000 different products. So what can I do with Google Sheets, Google Slides, Google Forms, stay in the Google ecosystem if you're a Google user? This is the ecosystem you're in. It's in your own Google Drive. You should, like, keep your data with yourself. So what I coded was the ability to, it's an add-on for Google Sheets, that will allow you to create lesson plans, rubrics, respond to an angry parent, lesson plan simulator that turns your lesson plan into a D&D adventure. Honestly, anything you want, like, literally anything you want. IEP writer, Dungeons & Dragons, any of those things and more because I have a feature that allows you to describe what you want, what tool you want, and it will create the prompt for you and add it into your toolbox. In my particular case, everything is sitting in your Google Drive, in your Sheets. So, I mean, like if it's in your Google Drive, we have a lot of PII in our student drive, right? Like all the student work, rosters, everything, Google Classroom has that PII.

Vicki Davis: Now that vibe coding exists and people can write their own extensions, There are bad actors that can write extensions that can take information. So how do we determine which extensions we really want to trust? And do we just write them ourselves?

Alice Keeler: I think you should write them ourselves. I mean, it took me two days to write this teacher AI toolkit. Now, granted, I have a lot of background knowledge and things that helped me to do this. I don't know that your average person with no knowledge could just pull this off tomorrow. But that's what's really exciting is that school districts can look at these tools and be like, we want that, but we want the privacy. They can literally have somebody with honestly very mediocre skills in coding, put one together, distribute it out to the whole school district, and you know it's safe because you made it internally and you published it. And it's so easy to publish internally. Now, you have to have permissions. Like, probably as a teacher, you don't have the ability to make a cloud project at your school. So you're going to want to work with your IT department, Either get them to do it because it's insanely easy to do that. We're in a really exciting time of more security because it's really doable. If these companies can pop up overnight, why can't your school district make that themselves and then share it with other school districts? Like, it feels to me like the democratization of EdTech right now. I'm really excited about it.

Vicki Davis: Programming we've been talking about for years. The rise of citizen programming, which is basically vibe coding, means that by describing an app or a tool that you can create it adds another layer of what IT departments will do, which is the approval of apps, programs, websites, all of these things to deploy them. Because if you can do that, you can have more safety and more security. But, you know, there are some IT departments who say, hey, we're not programmers, we're computer fixers. Right. That's got to change.

Alice Keeler: I think that's true for every job. It's not just the IT department. What does the job of teachers look like moving forward now that we have this democratization of ed tech and all of the things? So I would hope that the IT department is always moving forward because technology moves fast. So what we were doing in the IT department 10 years ago, 15 years ago, was obviously not the same today, right? How many of them were writing AI policies 10 years ago? None of them. And I hope they all are now. So let's just assume that's happening. But getting them on board with the citizen coding, with the vibe coding, is that you have people from your community, your school district, contributing to solve your really unique problems. Yeah. And anything you buy is pretty much off the shelf, right? It addresses your problems, but does it really solve what you need it to do? Now, I'm just doing it with Google Workspace, but of course, you can vibe code in anything. You can vibe code Python and different things for whatever your applications are. What could we do if we were to vibe code and create these tools that we know that they're safe because we made them ourselves and worked on them internally? Some of it's going to be too much. I don't know that I'm going to recreate PowerSchool anytime soon, as much as I need. But there's a lot of things that we can look at. And like, that's a cool feature. Could we build it internally? Could we band together with some other schools? I know like Fresno Unified and their Microsoft school. They're awesome. They do make their own power school. And so they do it all internally. It's gamified. And so it does happen. And it is possible. But Fresno Unified is the third largest school district, I think, in the state of California. So they have a lot of resources. But better yet, if we were to just, you know, make a conglomerate that we work together.

Vicki Davis: One thing at ISTE that perplexed me, I guess, a little bit is I'm a big one for using like the actual direct model. Like if I'm going to be using Gemini, I'm going to go straight to Gemini and use it. If I'm going to be using Claude, so many of these tools built on top of models, A, they don't tell you which model they're using. B, they don't tell you how they're using the data. And you're not transparent to like, where is this data going and who's using it? And then you've got the issue of, listen, you and I have known each other a long time and we lived through the web 2 era. So many apps that we talked about daily in the Web 2 era, including one of them was Wikispaces, bought by TES and then went away. Daily tools, big players, thinking they're going to be here forever. Right. And then they went away.

Alice Keeler: Right.

Vicki Davis: And that's going to happen again. And as OpenAI or Gemini or whoever updates these app models, it'll break. And then we start from scratch.

Alice Keeler: When I, when I connected up, I put in my code, a link that says model name and I click model name. So it's really easy for me to update which model. So, and so all I literally have to do is swap out, not even a line of code is just a text string have to be actively supporting, but I hope that you're using tools that are being actively supported anyway. So for example, my add-on template tab, I have 30 something million installs on that. [Editor's note: the Google Workspace Marketplace listing for TemplateTab shows 26M+ installs.] So what that does is it takes your roster of students on the first sheet, and then you design your graphic organizer on the second sheet in Google Sheets, and then it'll replicate your graphic organizer for each student on your roster and put their name on the tab at the bottom. So at some point, Google had changed the way that they handled folders and moving files and some of those things. And so they are deprecated. So I go in and I look at my code and some things are like lined out because they're not supported anymore. So in that case, I did have to update my code, but not because of AI per se, but just because that's how software works.

Vicki Davis: Your point is really valid. Like this is helping me understand is that the value of, is this being actively maintained and updated so that you can have access to the new models? So Alice Keeler at alicekeeler.com, what she's great at is helping people become massively efficient with Google Workspace. So if your school is Google Workspace, you should reach out to Alice. She can help you just be a game changer. We're not going to get more people, so we got to get more efficient. We got to streamline admin so that we can free up resources to have more people in the classroom. So thanks for coming on the show, Alice.

Announcer: Thanks for tuning in to the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast. Watch the video version of this podcast and catch my new radio and TV show, Cool Cat Teacher Talk, on YouTube and a radio or TV station near you. Join my Cool Cat Teacher Classroom Matters newsletter at coolcatteacher.com forward slash newsletter. Leave a review if you found this helpful. See you later, educator.

Vicki Davis (00:00): How a school built its culture around the seven habits for highly effective people, and the academics followed. This is episode 965. Happy Motivational Monday.

Announcer (00:13): This is the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (00:17): Today, we’re talking with Muriel Summers. She’s a principal who took a struggling Title I elementary school, A.B. Combs in Raleigh, North Carolina, and turned it into one of the most visited schools in the world by asking a question many of us need to be asking. What if every child could be a leader? Muriel is now FranklinCovey’s Global Ambassador, co-author of the newly updated A Leader in Me, and also the new book Teacher Believed in Me with David K. Hatch.

Muriel, you said that leadership isn’t a title or a personality trait. It’s a set of habits that can be taught. Take us back to 1999, your first year at A.B. Combs. What did you see that made you bet the whole school on that idea?

Muriel Summers (01:13): Vicki, first of all, I am a big fan and quite honored to be part of this this morning. I’m reminded that through incredible challenge often comes wonderful opportunity. And I think if there was a quote that captured that first year for me as a principal, it would be that. I really didn’t even know what I was doing.

I had so longed to be a principal for a while, and that was my goal. The way this story goes is that several people applied to be the principal of A.B. Combs. When they did their homework, whatever their reason, they withdrew their names. I was the fifth person interviewed for this job, and I was the one who did not, embarrassingly enough, do my homework as much as I should have.

But nonetheless, I know now that I was given one of the greatest professional gifts of my lifetime to go in with like-minded, amazing educators with a belief that we could do something extraordinary. We approached our challenge of reinventing ourselves. And how were we going to do that? And the charge was that it could not be a theme like any other school.

It could not be like any other magnet school. And we wouldn’t have a lot of money in which to make it happen. So that was the charge before us, and I had just heard Dr. Covey speak in Washington, D.C. I was listening with the head of an administrator that had been issued this incredible challenge, but also the heart of a single mother of two small children.

How was I going to make all of this happen? So as I listened to Dr. Covey speak, I wondered if I had learned these habits much earlier in my life, how different my life might have been. And that was one question swirling around. And then the second question was, I wonder if you could teach leadership to young children.

So I listened to him and I was quite emotional, Vicki. I was quite emotional thinking about my own future, thinking about what my vision was. Habit number two, begin with the end in mind. Thinking how am I going to be proactive and use my time effectively when I had so many things juggling in the air.

But learning these habits gave me my toolkit to navigate a school and to navigate my life and to navigate my role as a mother, a friend, and all the other roles that we play. So I hear him speak. I go back to the school, and I’m like, we’ve got to reinvent ourselves. We don’t have much time.

I’ve just heard Covey speak. Do you think we can teach these habits? Now, mind you, Vicki, there was no framework for us to follow as educators. We read his book.

We read Sean Covey’s book, which I will lovingly and admiringly say that it’s the cliff notes of his father’s book. So it really related to our teachers in a way that they could take what Sean had written and pull any book off a shelf and find a way to teach these habits.

Vicki Davis (04:23): So you’re talking about seven habits for highly effective people, and I’m assuming seven habits for highly effective people for teens, right?

Muriel Summers (04:29): That’s exactly right. So we called in our parents, our students, our teachers, university professors, because we are like three miles from NC State University, 20 miles from UNC Chapel Hill. We asked the question, if you could create your ideal school. What would it look like, sound like, and feel like?

And we gathered all that feedback. Teachers wanted students that respected them. They wanted to work in an environment where they had a voice. Students wanted teachers who loved them.

Now, mind you, this was an elementary school. Business leaders were looking for a skill set quite different than an academic skill set. The comments that were made was, We can teach someone with average intelligence how to be successful in our organization, but we can’t teach them how to be trustworthy. We can’t teach them how to be collaborative.

We can’t teach them how to embrace diversity if it isn’t a part of who they are. Then parents, we just want a teacher who knows our child. We want them to know their child’s story. We want them to see their gifts beyond academics.

We took those seven habits, Vicki, and we aligned it with all that feedback, and it screamed leadership to us. So we just went to work. This is a philosophy. It’s not a program.

One of our core paradigms, our core beliefs, that every child has genius. So we went about creating a culture where children had roles and responsibilities, where their genius was recognized. We saw discipline go down almost instantly because children wanted to come to school and they wanted to be a part. So we started referring to everybody as a leader, Vicki.

And guess what? We not only viewed them that way, we also gave them opportunities to lead. So when you’ve got a culture of everyone is leading, everyone is important, everyone’s voice matters, everyone has genius. You don’t have to worry about the academics.

They just happen. But we fixed the culture, and we created a culture of leadership for all. And we went from one of the lowest performing to one of the highest performing. Everyone was working from the inside out to become all that we thought individually we could become.

And equally as important to create a school that every child wanted to come to that would leave a lasting impact.

Vicki Davis (07:05): Take me on a verbal tour. Tell me what I would see from morning to when school ends, the types of things that students or teachers might be doing, and also your role.

Muriel Summers (07:17): We had an incredible assistant principal whose name was Michael Armstrong, and he died at a very early age of 40. But Michael left a lasting impact, and he would always say, can you feel it? So the moment you would walk in the building, we wanted people to feel something. And Vicki, you know exactly what I’m talking about.

You don’t have to be in a school very long, just a few minutes, to know what that school is about, about what you see, what you hear, and what you feel. When the children entered the building, there were big words right above the doors. So when they got off that bus, these were the words that they saw. And I feel like I’m going to get emotional, but you are seen, you are known.

And you are loved. And when they got off that bus, they would hear happy music playing. Teachers would be out greeting the children as they got off the bus, calling them by name was a requirement. You know every child’s name.

They would call them by name, always modeling. We model what we expect to see our children do. So they would walk, hear that fun music, hear their name being said. We’re so happy you’re here.

They’d walk up the steps, they’d look at those words. You are seen, you are known, you are loved. They’d walk in to the building. There was always someone standing there to greet them.

I helped to get children out of the cars so I could see the parents. And so everyone was in the hallway. Children would go to their classroom and they were greeted. Social etiquette, big part of what we taught as well.

They would either high five, shake the hand, do a little dance, do whatever. So that that first connection with their teacher was being made that day. The walls were required to teach and to reflect our students’ genius. I always had some challenges with our fire marshals because when we had an art show, there were 900 pieces of art on the wall because every child had their art displayed because we wanted our children to see themselves as leaders in art, leaders in music, leaders in public speaking based on their genius and based on their passion.

My favorite teacher, Miss Rose. So much of Miss Rose is embedded in the culture of A.B. Combs. She told us every day it mattered not where we came from. What mattered was the size of our dreams and our hopes for our own future.

And we were the sons and daughters of cotton workers and mill workers and cotton farmers in rural North Carolina. So much of what is in the classrooms today becomes a reflection of each teacher’s favorite teacher. So we wanted the school to reflect leadership. I know you’re a collector of quotes.

There are a lot of quotes throughout the building. But they’re not just words, Vicki. We take our children several times during the year on a field trip throughout the school to say, what does this mean to you? What do you want this to look like?

The school is very much child-centered based on what children have said they wanted and also what we wanted the walls to teach. You will see the Seven Habits Tree in the building. You will see photographs of great leaders. That it’s very important to us that we put role models, great examples of great leaders in front of our students.

And whether we find that on the news or in a sports arena or in a piece of great literature, we’re always pointing out the characteristics of great leaders. The morning begins with a morning meeting. So every child is having a voice and a say. And those meetings are very powerful.

They’re as important as instruction as far as I’m concerned because they set the tone. And then every afternoon, we conclude with doing an evaluation on how we did in our classrooms. What went well? What are the opportunities for improvement tomorrow?

And the teacher stands in the doorway as each child leaves and tells him to have a great night. And that’s exactly what Miss Rose did. She would say, how am I going to make it to the next day without you? How am I going to make it through the night?

Because I’m going to miss you so much. And you know what, Vicki, we believed her. We believed she was going to miss us. And we loved her to pieces.

And the impact that one lady had on the lives of so many, your teacher, you as a teacher, and I hope. Me as a teacher, I hope I left a little bit of my heart in every child that I taught. I hope I leave a little bit of myself with them. Yeah.

Vicki Davis (12:13): Take me back to when you would have a new teacher start at your school. What did you say?

Muriel Summers (12:18): Well, before they were ever hired, students assisted me in the hiring process. And what I mean by that is a teacher jumped through several hoops to be a teacher at Combs. And one of those hoops was the administrators reviewing the file and saying, this person looks like they could be a good match. Then we brought children in and we never asked children, Vicki.

We taught them how to interview someone as young as five years old. Children know what they’re looking for in a teacher. We let them loose. Now, there was always an adult in the room with the children who were interviewing the teacher.

But the adult’s job was not to tell the children what to say, but to listen so that we could debrief afterwards and say, this is what you did well. Children, in essence, were learning how to interview as they interviewed a teacher. And children would ask the most amazing questions, Vicki, questions that we never thought about asking. And the teachers that we were interviewing would always say the student interview was by far the hardest.

They were not responsible for determining if a person got hired or not. But their voice mattered. And it mattered to us. There was only one time, Vicki, in all the 20 years that children were part of interviewing, did I go against what the children said?

It was like they were looking for the same things we were looking for. But this was a gentleman who had a degree from a local university. He had this business background of systems thinking, and I was so intrigued by it. No matter how good you are, continuous improvement, how do you get better?

Vicki Davis (14:05): He had that. Sharpen the saw, right?

Muriel Summers (14:07): Exactly. But he had a business skill set that I didn’t have, and I thought how valuable he would be on our team. So he had majored in business, an MBA degree in business, but had always wanted to be a teacher, or so he thought he did. The children said he’s very smart so he’s a genius he’s a leader in intelligence because they picked up on this man was very smart, but we don’t think he gets kids.

And I’m like, tell me more. We just don’t think he gets what kids are about. I thought, well, they’re gonna learn to like him, and I need him, and we’re gonna hire him. He lasted until November.

Vicki Davis (14:47): Oh, my goodness. So the kids were right.

Muriel Summers (14:49): The kids were right. Dr. Covey would say, a little child shall lead us. And I think that was really the fabric of everything. Let our children lead.

Let them have a voice.

Vicki Davis (15:04): What are some things I can bring to my classroom tomorrow?

Muriel Summers (15:09): There are over 8,500 schools in over 60 countries around the world that are teaching the same thing that we started at A.B. Combs. So there is that framework. But this leader in me and teacher believed in me go hand in hand, teacher believed in me, because we wanted to give homage to great teachers. What do great teachers do differently?

So that quote, never underestimate what a committed group of people can do, because, indeed, it’s what has changed the world. And I do think in a very small way, A.B. Combs has changed the world in terms of what schools should look like, sound like, and feel like based on the hearts of teachers and the hopes and dreams of children. If I can do it, Vicki, anybody can do it. Not to get caught up in the whirlwind, of those things that matter least.

But let us stay focused on what matters most. And to me, it’s just love them. Just love the teachers, love the children enough that you will give your very best to help them all succeed.

Vicki Davis (16:26): My mom, who was a great teacher and my closest mentor and who loved the seven habits, um, Always said, you’ve got to create your to-be list before you create your to-do list. Because the things you do, they’re just an overwhelming number of things that you could do. But if you don’t know what you want to be, you have no ability to determine the right thing to do. We’ve been talking with Muriel Summers.

She’s a principal who took a struggling Title I elementary school, A.B. Combs in Raleigh, North Carolina. She has an updated book of The Leader in Me, a new book, Teacher Believed in Me. Muriel, thank you so much for coming on the show, for coming.

Muriel Summers (17:13): Vicki, thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Vicki Davis (17:18): Thanks for tuning in to the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast. Watch the video version of this podcast and catch my new radio and TV show, Cool Cat Teacher Talk, on YouTube and a radio or TV station near you. Join my Cool Cat Teacher Classroom Matters newsletter at coolcatteacher.com forward slash newsletter. Leave a review if you found this helpful.

See you later, educator.

This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki

Vicki Davis (00:00): You're listening to Cool Cat Teacher Talk. We're talking about leadership. You can learn. Part one, who you're becoming.

Announcer (00:11): Ever wondered how remarkable teaching happens? Find out right now at Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis. Get insights from top educators. Tips and inspiration to elevate your teaching.

Vicki Davis (00:23): I have had some remarkable bosses in my 24 years in schools, and I've had some of the worst bosses of my life. But here's the strange part. Sometimes they were the same person. I've watched a weak leader become a remarkable one. And I've watched remarkable leaders slowly become somebody I didn't recognize. Same desk, same title, different person.

Vicki Davis (00:51): I've thought about this a lot because it tells us something we need to hear. Leadership is not a personality you're born with. It's not a title they hand you. Leadership can be learned. And if it can be learned, it can be taught. This means that the leader you are today is not the leader you have to stay.

Vicki Davis (01:15): My former pastor Michael Catt used to say, leadership is hard. It requires that you constantly self-evaluate and face up to your own shortcomings. Same for the teacher, right? That's the work, not the title, the mirror. So over the next two shows, we're going to talk about that work with people who have done it.

Vicki Davis (01:35): So I went looking for excellent things in these conversations, the true things, the admirable things, the things we're thinking about on your drive home. But it starts with one idea that runs through everything today. We have to decide who we want to be before we decide what we want to do. So this is part of a two-part leadership series. And today we're talking about.

Vicki Davis (02:06): Who you're becoming, the inner work of leadership. Next time we'll be talking about leading with love, where two of America's top principals of the year show you what it looks like on a Monday morning in a real building.

Vicki Davis (02:23): Today we've got two people who've had very different jobs but landed in the same place. One leads 17,000 principals across the country. Another rebuilt a single struggling school and changed how the whole world thinks about leadership. So let's start with the big picture.

Vicki Davis (02:43): Ronn Nozoe is the CEO of NASSP (the National Association of Secondary School Principals). And as of July 1st, 2026, that organization received a new name, the National Principals Association, which now serves school leaders from pre-K all the way to high school. Ronn has been a teacher, a principal, a state deputy superintendent in Hawaii, and a leader at the U.S. Department of Education.

Vicki Davis (03:05): So when Ronn tells you what leadership requires, he sat in almost every chair in the building. Now he and I ran a survey together asking principals across the country how they really feel about AI in their schools. But the survey isn't just the story. The story is what Ronn kept coming back to. Let's learn.

Announcer (03:28): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (03:31): Today we're talking with Ronn Nozoe he is the CEO of the National Principals Association. We've had so many of their award-winning principals on this show. Today we are going to talk about what principals and leaders are saying about artificial intelligence in their schools. Now, Ronn, thank you for agreeing to do this survey.

Vicki Davis (03:58): Are principals already talking a lot about this topic?

Ronn Nozoe (04:00): They are. Thank you to all the teachers and leaders who are tuning in. Thank you to you for your leadership here. It was really exciting to partner with you to do the survey. We love to poll and get input from our members. We're a member-driven organization, serving about 17,000 school leaders across the country. There's a lot of conversations at every level in the education continuum about the use of machine learning and artificial intelligence and I'm really pleased survey wise, seven out of ten folks said, yeah, they're already immersed in it and moving forward with it and trying to do it well. But then there's also, three out of ten, thirty percent of the respondents were like, We're not there yet.

Vicki Davis (04:37): One of the questions was how confident do you feel about leading AI implementation in your school next year? There were roughly 18% who were like, yeah, I'm very confident. Now, granted, a little over 50% were somewhat confident, but I thought that was just interesting that not quite 20% felt very, but you know what? In some ways, as somebody who does AI every day, that actually makes me feel better because overconfidence in this world of AI, I kind of feel like it's a mistake. Like how do you feel? Do you feel like anybody really has their hand on the pulse of like what's going on with AI?

Ronn Nozoe (05:15): We been to, a ton of principal conferences over the course of the past year. And almost everyone has had some strand or some f speaker or some session focused on, you know, using artificial intelligence well. To your point, I think personal use wise, our members are fine. Like people are using it, whatever. I think when they when the pressure comes to like how am I doing this well in my school.

Ronn Nozoe (05:39): For the folks that I serve. I think that's where it gets complicated because as you know, good principals and assistant principals, good leaders really want to make sure the people that they support are really invested in it and are really getting their bang for the buck. And it's not the same for everyone, right? Everybody comes at it with a different set of experiences and a different comfortability.

Ronn Nozoe (05:58): Reading between the lines, I think a lot of that is more self-imposed pressure our principals and assistant principals are really want to do a good job and they're like, well, I'm you know you how it is as good educators. We never believe that we're there. We're always in search of the best. And so I think they're a little hard on themselves because when I go to schools and I talk to folks, people are using AI all over it in you know, every facet of school. I don't think they maybe don't feel as comfortable like, okay, we got this together at a way that is a real system in place. And that's part of the challenge, right? Is when AI really start to make a have a greater presence in schools, we were always we were advocating for, hey, there needs to be some high level guidance provided by to your point, we've got so much brain power in this country and in the world driving this machine learning and Artificial intelligence and so many different variations of the different interfaces. We really did need a little bit more guidance perhaps like a framework for people to. And of course, those didn't really materialize in the beginning. So as educators, we're kind of creating our own, which is great. Except it would be really helpful if there was a better blend of some of these amazing experts and educators working a little bit closer. So That's why the opportunity to participate with you in the survey was so helpful because it really has informed our advocacy and our calls for action at the policy level.

Vicki Davis (07:24): Anytime you tune in the news, part of how a lot of us feel is, it's become a national policy issue. If you look at what China's saying, they're saying, well, our kids need to know about AI. If you look at what the uS is saying, our kids need to know about AI. I just saw a report come out of Canada and they're taking moves to try to bring more artificial intelligence knowledge in-house. Saudi Arabia, same thing because everybody realizes the strategic importance, but it's changing so fast. And truthfully, a lot of our students have seen it as hey, I'm gonna use it just to answer the questions at the end of the chapter or to write this essay for me. So there's this big strategic issue, but I almost wonder if there's not a bigger strategic issue of Kids who are not going to have the domain knowledge they need to supervise artificial intelligence because none of us want to feel like we're wasting our time in education. We got into education to make a difference. And so while we're using it, in the front office analyzing data, this tension that a lot of us feel, I'm sure that you're hearing principals talk about this.

Ronn Nozoe (08:38): And I'm no expert in the space as you are. However, I do agree with you that this is not a nice to have thing anymore. And that's one of the good news stories, nobody is like, what is this? Nobody I come into contact with is like, what is this AI thing? We're past that, thankfully, right? To your point, like we always do with kids, right? At the basic level is like recall, could they recall and repeat basically what they've learned. And then you get into application and then you get into innovation and synthesis above that, right? From a development of skills. And I think the focus is shifted away from a recall more to like, okay, so how are we really using the tools that are provided? How are we helping kids learn how to use the tools? And frankly, some of it is really turning over some of that ownership to kids because some of the kids today are so savvy and so smart about how to really use all of the different technologies. And then how do we use those as really a tool or a vehicle rather than end all be all? And I think it's moving away from just doing sort of simple tasks. And now how can we leverage the technology to tackle more complicated?

Ronn Nozoe (09:45): Things. And I think that's where training, our members talk a lot about. We just need more time. You know, the if you saw the question, right? There was what do we need more of? We need more resources. Of course, we always need more resources, but really the number one was time. Not to get too much on the soapbox, but that's something that folks that are not in education don't understand is how important it is.

Ronn Nozoe (10:06): For educators to have dedicated time to plan and collaborate. So many good things come out of really well planned and well resourced dedicated time for planning and collaboration. When done well, it's super powerful. And I don't think people outside of education understand, R&D in a business is a foundation of for-profit businesses. They literally invest a huge percentage of their earnings back into R and D. We don't always do that in education in K twelve. And I think that's a important lesson to learn from our friends in business about how important it is to invest back in planning and development.

Vicki Davis (10:42): You know I've been talking to teachers in particular about, going to conferences because for many years, many teachers have had to pay for themselves to go to conferences, but now it's not a matter of paying for themselves. It's a matter of, hey, I'd have to pay for myself and pay for sub because we don't have subs. I mean, we're really reaching a crisis point and

Ronn Nozoe (10:56): Yeah, I yes.

Vicki Davis (11:02): we have these strategic issues. And it's no surprise to me that 40% said.

Vicki Davis (11:07): We want time for staff training and planning. But teachers are stressed and principals are too. But it's it's a tough place.

Ronn Nozoe (11:14): When you look at the incredible load that teachers and principals, ev everyone on a school, frankly, whether you're, you know, in the office or in the cafeteria on the on the facility side, I mean, or on the paraprofessional side, everybody in a school is carrying so much load right now. It's just you know, the saying about doing more with less, I don't know how much less we can have one of, if not the most important profession on the planet, raising the next generation of our future of the country. Our most precious natural resource. Everybody's, most prized, loved one in their family comes to school and we're raising them to be the next leadership of the country. I don't know what's more important than that. The amount of stuff that our teachers and principals and support staff have to carry. And then the world expects us to deliver more. But folks, we need to reinvest in those people. We need to continue to invest in folks so that they can continue to be the cutting edge, amazing people that they are in the field. And I know we're, preaching to the choir here because everybody who's tuning in to your show is one of those people who's doing everything they can possibly do to serve others. But I do think, we need to really come to grips with there's so much talk about we're all about education, but when it comes time to put the money where the mouth is, so to speak, it's not always the case. And I think we don't do a good enough job as educators about really showing what it takes every one of your members here, every one of your subscribers is doing amazing things in their in their local schools and in their jurisdictions. And they probably don't really take the time to show all that because they just that's just what they do. And I don't want to change that. I think we should always stay humble. But I do think we need to explain a little bit more so people understand that it takes quite a bit to make it look that simple. It is not as simple as it looks for anybody who's ever done it knows.

Ronn Nozoe (13:10): So I you know, I hope that people actually take the time to learn and understand. Wow, this is a lot more complicated than it may appear to be on you know, at face value.

Vicki Davis (13:20): I had my friend Justin Reich from MIT come on the show recently and he said that as we move forward in education, the secret to our success is not going to be addition, it's going to be subtraction. It's going to be taking things off of the plate. Because I'll say in the 24 years I've been teaching, it accelerated pre-pandemic, but then pandemic put us in a whole new ballpark of emotional issues as well as gaps in knowledge, the haves and the have nots. And we're just not gonna be able to entertain our way out of this. It's gonna take hard work with administrators, with teachers, and with students. And with parents. We've got to partner together and work together. AI is not gonna fix this. This is a human problem. We've got to work together as humans. So let's go back to our survey for a second. Was there anything surprising that you read in the results that you were like, my, I did not know that people felt this way.

Ronn Nozoe (14:18): You know, the open responses were really interesting because they were such a range, right? Not necessarily a surprise, but I was really thrilled to see some of the innovative things that are happening. It was really nice to see school leaders, Sort of talking about some of the cool things that they're doing. Cause they don't always do that. They're generally like very humble, I guess I'm we're outing them here on a on a national level podcast now, but the secret's out, people. There are amazing things happening in schools. And to see them shouting out their amazing teacher leaders and the amazing teachers on their staff and the kind of work they're doing was really heartwarming. So not necessarily a surprise, but sometimes we can get c so caught up in the craziness and busyness of the world. You gotta slow down sometimes and take a look at what is really happening, and it was wonderful to sort of read those and feel really proud of the incredible efforts that are happening across the country.

Vicki Davis (15:10): I agree with you. The thing that was surprising to me was how much it seemed like administrators were leaning on their teachers and that teachers were working with administrators that this artificial

Ronn Nozoe (15:19): I mean

Vicki Davis (15:20): intelligence thing is moving so rapidly that the schools who seem to be figuring it out are figuring it out together. It's not like somebody's in the front office saying, do this or there's a Lone Ranger teacher. It's kind of like people coming together saying, Hey, we don't know what to do, but we're gonna figure it out together. That is encouraging.

Ronn Nozoe (15:39): When I was back in the Department of Education in Hawaii, we used to say all the time that we could solve any problem. We just needed the time and space to involve folks. Back then as the state deputy, I had a teacher round table. They were amazing. The teacher leaders solved so many problems in our system. You just invest in them, give them the time. And then did the same thing with the principals, had a principal round table and they solved a whole bunch of problems too. And I think this is that thing where it's not so much about hierarchies as it was, you know, when I was coming up, it was like the principal was up here, and then we just no not air quotes to everybody. Nobody is just anything. You know, if you're a teacher, don't ever say I was I'm just that. You're not just it. You're an amazing, life-changing individual who is shaping the future of our country. Let's not let's not forget that. And same for principals. When people get out of that and they start realizing that this is a we thing, we're all in it together, that's where the real magic happens, to the non-educators, it's not really magic. It's pain and suffering and sacrifice and struggle. But it looks like magic on the outside because a bunch of people who might not be on the same page get together, they exchange their ideas, they come up with a plan and then they roll out with that plan and when everybody's at the table like that, the solution's always better. Like you, I'm really excited about this different kind of relationship that we're seeing across schools that are really on the move, which is it's not so much about a hierarchy. Of course, there's hierarchy for decision making and accountability purposes, but it's really about a team working on in i initiatives or efforts together and then really leaning on each other and tapping each other's strengths and energies and enthusiasm to get to that end result. In this world where it seems like there's a lot of every person for themselves, this is not what's happening in schools. They're actually banding together, working together closer, which I think is a great model for society about how people who have different beliefs and perhaps different views about the world can all actually put kids before themselves and then align around what's best for kids. I think that's a great model for society to take a look at, and, you know, don't get caught up in all the sensationalism. Focus on where what's really important, people, relationships, developing the next generation. I guess we're biased in that, but that's what I do, what I do, these folks who are doing this work are heroes and they deserve to be supported and elevated.

Vicki Davis (18:04): It's just not an easy season, you know. Back to that we were talking about the subtraction is that like I read this week that in Maryland the teachers are now being told, up through even first, second, third grade that they're gonna have to assist with potty training children. Like it's so foreign to me that this should be these should be issues that school leaders and teachers are having to work with, you know, it's just kind of for lack of a better word, shocking. Like how much more can we add to our plates, you know?

Ronn Nozoe (18:36): I say this all the time, in to whatever audience will hear it. I say, we're the United States of America. Okay, we're not some well, I'll keep up. We're the United States of America. We should be able to solve this problem. Like, we should be able.

Vicki Davis (18:49): Yes, that problem we should be able to solve.

Ronn Nozoe (18:54): To your point about the plate being overcrowded, we literally back when I was a principal, we had an off-the-plate committee and we could never take anything off the plate because it was s everything was so important. We're the United States of America, there should be supports for parents and families who are both working or the whole family's work, all the adults in the household are working and they're trying to make ends meet and we should be able to provide the kinds of supports as a country so that people don't have to choose between work and parenting. These are all things that should be solved. And how we're gonna get there with a more educated citizenry. I know it's a long game, but that's why I think we're in this because we can see there is a brighter future on the other end. We just, to your point, we need to work a little harder and work a little closer together to be able to get to that and really align on these are the most important people for the future of our country.

Vicki Davis (19:49): Absolutely.

Ronn Nozoe (19:50): Who wouldn't do anything they can possibly do? If it was your own kid, you'd do anything. Everybody does that for their own kids. Why can't we do that for everybody's children? I don't think that's… too much to ask for the United States of America, really, frankly.

Vicki Davis (20:03): So Ronn, as people are listening to you and they're thinking about, their principals at their schools, what are some of the things that you wish more people knew about how to support their principal?

Ronn Nozoe (20:17): First of all, the best way to support your principal is to be the amazing educator that all of your subscribers are, the that's the greatest gift that any teacher can quote unquote give to their school and their community and their principal is just be the best educator you can possibly be. That makes everybody's life so much easier and better. That's one. Number two.

Ronn Nozoe (20:40): Being the kind of educator that is a team player, but also has the relationship to speak with your principal offline and say, Hey, principal so-and-so, I understand where we're going. I can help us get there in a more effective and efficient way if you just give me some space. Sometimes principals don't know that's how the teachers feel. Sometimes it can be perceived as well, then we're not on the same page. Well, sometimes the teacher has to let the principal know I'm willing to help us get there. You just got to give me some space. So, you know, it's not that's not how we were raised in teacher school, right? Like we didn't come up like that. That's you know, we're supposed to be good soldiers back then. And I think that soldier mentality is probably not the best analogy for schools. Because what we're trying to do is raise a bunch of leaders, right? We want teacher leaders, we want folks who have a sense of agency and a sense of efficacy. So sometimes a teacher may have to sort of Open that door and bridge that sometimes a principal will do that, which is wonderful, and we love that. But sometimes an educator has to come and say, Hey, you know, principal so-and-so, or assistant principal so and so. If you just put me in, I might be able to help a little bit. I really do want to get to I see the value of this thing that we're trying to do. It's not just hitting with my fellow teachers, and so I can help you make that relevant. And I think that those little things, that's not a huge change.

Ronn Nozoe (22:02): But that little change could actually be a huge impact on the on the receiving end, on the on the output end. So that would be one piece of advice is teachers, don't be afraid to approach your principal. Now, probably not the best thing to raise your hand in a faculty meeting and say that out loud. You might want to have that conversation privately. But I think that for you know for principals who are trying to figure it out, I would welcome that. Like if someone said, Hey, you know, Ronn, I'm thinking about this thing and I have some ideas about how to help make it better. I welcome that stuff all day, you know. So I think that would be that would be a piece of advice I'd give to your listeners about how to how to help move things forward in your school.

Vicki Davis (22:42): I think of my first year or two of teaching, I was not great. I made a lot of mistakes, but I

Ronn Nozoe (22:44): Hey.

Vicki Davis (22:47): had people who invested in me and helped me progress. And I hear so many stories of remarkable principals who will look at you in the eye, Ronn, and say, you know, I was a terrible principal my first couple of years. And we can all though the whole idea is that we can learn. We can take people who don't know anything and then we can help them learn.

Vicki Davis (23:07): But we can also be the people who learn and need to learn together as we move forward because I can't tell you how many times in the last few years I'll sit there shaking my head with my principal going, okay, I've literally never heard of this before, this issue that we're dealing with. Where did this come from? This is a new one on me. And we have so much new territory. So, Ronn, as we finish up, what's your word of encouragement to principals?

Ronn Nozoe (23:35): Keep fighting the good fight. To every principal out there, know, your whole community is counting on you, but you don't have to do this alone. You have an amazing team of educators on your campus. Empower them, i elevate them, give them the space and the and the resources to have those conversations that they need to have, and you know, you don't have to be alone. You can you have a whole school community that can be your buddy and partner in this effort. There's we have you have a state association and our affiliate and a national association that's got your back. And then to the teachers that are tuning in, you keep fighting the good fight too. You're needed and loved and appreciated. And you know, sometimes it may not feel like that, but as my dad used to say, my parents are both public educators. My dad used to say, son, don't even worry about it. The people who need to know.

Ronn Nozoe (24:24): So, to all your listeners and subscribers out there, the National Association of Secondary School Principals knows how important excellent teachers are to the quality of a school. And we're all about elevating and supporting you. We're trying to raise the next generation of students in our student leadership programs who will become the next generation of teachers because we know that if we inspire them at an early age, they will look at education in a different light. So to everybody, just keep doing the doing the great work and Lean on your colleagues and your networks and your friends and your and your respective state associations and national associations, because we're all there to support you and all of us believe in you.

Vicki Davis (25:02): Today we've been talking with Ronn Nozoe, CEO of NASSP, July 2026. It will be the National Principals Association. Ronn, thank you for supporting all of our many shows we have here, Cool Cat Teacher Talk and the 10 Minute Teacher by sending your award winning NASSP Principals of the Year to share their stories. And thanks for doing the survey. And I hope that Everybody listening will realize that this artificial intelligence issue is something everybody's grappling with, but that the best schools seem to be building partnerships between administration and teachers. And that was the big resounding thing we found from the survey. So thanks for doing the survey, Ronn, and thanks for coming on the show.

Ronn Nozoe (25:45): Thanks to you, Vicki, and congratulations to you and the and the continued success of both of your endeavors here.

Announcer (25:51): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (25:55): When people realize that this is a we thing, that's where the real magic happens. So I wrote that one down out of the interview because Ronn told me about a teacher roundtable he ran back in Hawaii and he said the teacher leaders solved problem after problem that the front office couldn't. You just had to give them the time and get out of the way.

Vicki Davis (26:16): There's a researcher named Todd Whitaker who studied what the best principals actually do differently. And one of the things he found is the best ones quietly check with their informal teacher leaders before they make big decisions. Not the org chart. The real leaders, the one everybody in the building already listens to. That's not a weakness, that's a multiplier.

Vicki Davis (26:36): So it's the perfect handoff to our next guest because she built an entire school on one radical idea. What if every single person in the building is a leader? Muriel Summers took a struggling Title I elementary school, A.B. Combs in Raleigh, North Carolina, and turned it into one of the most visited schools in the world. She did it by asking a question. Many of us need to ask. What if you could teach leadership to a five-year-old?

Vicki Davis (27:05): So she's now Franklin Covey's Global Ambassador, the co-author of The Leader in Me and a new book, Teacher Believed in Me. Let's learn from Muriel.

Vicki Davis (27:15): Today we're talking with Muriel Summers. She's a principal who took a struggling Title I elementary school, A.B. Combs, in Raleigh, North Carolina, and turned it into one of the most visited schools in the world by asking a question. Many of us need to be asking. What if every child could be a leader?

Vicki Davis (27:40): Muriel is now Franklin Covey's Global Ambassador, co-author of the newly updated The Leader in Me, and also the new book, Teacher Believed in Me with David K. Hatch.

Vicki Davis (27:54): On what it actually takes to grow leadership in kids. Muriel, you said that leadership isn't a title or a personality trait. It's a set of habits that can be taught so can you take us back to 1999, your first year at A.B. Combs? What did you see that made you bet the whole school on that idea?

Muriel Summers (28:17): Vicki, first of all, what an honor it is for me to be sitting in the same space with you this morning. I am a big fan and quite honored to be part of this I'm reminded that through incredible challenge often comes wonderful opportunity.

Muriel Summers (28:38): And I think if there was a quote that captured that first year for me as a principal, it would be that I really didn't even know what I was doing. I had so longed to be a principal for a while, and that was my goal. The way the story goes is that several people applied to be the principal of A.B. Combs. And when they did their homework, whatever their reason, they withdrew their names. I was the fifth person interviewed for this job and I was the one who did not, embarrassingly enough, do my homework as much as I should have. But nonetheless, I know now that I was given one of the greatest professional gifts of my lifetime to go in with like minded amazing educators with the belief that we could do something extraordinary. And we approached our challenge of reinventing ourselves. And how were we going to do that? And the charge was that it could not be a theme like any other school. It could not be like any other magnet school, which of course are theme-based schools.

Muriel Summers (29:51): And we wouldn't have a lot of money in which to make it happen. And so that was the charge before us. And I had just heard Dr. Covey speak in Washington, DC. And as I listened to him, I was listening with the head of administrator that had been issued this incredible challenge, but also the heart of a mother, a single mother, of two small children, one that was five years old and one that was seven.

Muriel Summers (30:19): And so, how was I going to make all of this happen? So, as I listened to Dr. Covey speak, I wondered if I had learned these habits much earlier in my life, how different my life might have been. That was one question swirling around. And then the second question was, I wonder if you could teach leadership to young children. So I listened to him and I was quite emotional, Vicki.

Muriel Summers (30:45): I was quite emotional about thinking about my own future, thinking about what my vision was. Habit number two, begin with the end in mind, thinking how am I going to be proactive and use my time effectively when I had so many things juggling in the air. But this was giving me my toolkit. Learning these habits gave me my toolkit to navigate a school.

Muriel Summers (31:13): And to navigate my life and to navigate my role as a mother a friend and all the other roles that we play. So I hear him speak, go back to the school, and I'm like, we've got to reinvent ourselves. We don't have much time. I've just heard Covey speak. Do you think we can teach these habits? Now, mind you, Vicki, there was no framework for us to follow as educators.

Muriel Summers (31:38): We read his book, we read Sean Covey's book, which I will lovingly and admiringly say that it's the cliff notes of his father's book. So it really related to our teachers in a way that they could take what Sean had written and pull any book off a shelf and find a way to teach these habits.

Vicki Davis (31:58): And so you're talking about seven habits for highly effective people, and I'm assuming seven habits for highly effective people for teens, right?

Muriel Summers (32:04): That's exactly right. What we also did within a week's period of time because we had to present a new idea to our school board based on can't be like anything else, and you're not gonna have a lot of money in which to make it happen. And so we called in our parents, our students, our teachers, University professors, because we l are like, I don't know, three miles from NC State University, 20 miles from UNC Chapel Hill. We pulled in university people and we asked the question, if you could create your ideal school, what would it look like, sound like, and feel like? And we gathered all that feedback. Teachers wanted students that respected them.

Muriel Summers (32:47): They wanted to work in an environment where they had a voice. Students wanted teachers who loved them. Now, mind you, this was in elementary school. All students want their teacher to love them. But elementary, I want them to love me. I want them to forgive me when I make a mistake. Business leaders were looking for a skill set quite different than an academic skill set. And the comments that were made was we can teach someone with the you know, average intelligence, how to be successful in our organization. But we can't teach them how to be trustworthy. We can't teach them how to be collaborative. We can't teach them how to embrace diversity if it isn't a part of who they are. Then parents, we just want a teacher who knows our child. We want them to know their child's story. We want them to see their gifts beyond academics.

Muriel Summers (33:39): And so professors wanted students coming prepared. So we took those seven habits, Vicki, and we aligned it with all that feedback, and it screamed leadership to us. So at that time, we just had dial-up internet. So it was said to the technology teacher, Randall, go see if you can find any other elementary school in the country that's teaching leadership. There weren't any. There were a few that middle and high, but not based on Stephen Covey's seven habits so we just went to work. And this was a philosophy. Not a program. It is a philosophy that was developed by teachers for teachers, and it also hit what all of our main stakeholders were looking for. Not every child brings the gift of academics into a classroom, but they bring gifts. That's one of our core paradigms, our core beliefs, that every child has genius. So we went about creating a culture where children had roles and responsibilities, where their genius was recognized. We saw disciplinary action go down almost instantly because children wanted to come to school and they wanted to be a part. We were developing this very unique culture where everyone, regardless of your role, if you were the leader in keeping the school clean and safe, you were a leader. You're a leader in child nutrition because you prepared the meals for children. You're a leader in transportation because you're bringing our most valuable resources to us every day.

Muriel Summers (35:18): So we started referring to everybody as a leader, Vicki. And guess what? We not only viewed them that way, we also gave them opportunities to lead. And that made all the difference in the world. So when you've got a culture of everyone is leading, everyone is important, everyone's voice matters, everyone has genius. You don't have to worry about the academics.

Muriel Summers (35:45): They just happen. But we fixed the culture and created a culture of leadership for all. And we went from one of the lowest performing to one of the highest performing. And the principal that is now leading A.B. Combs, who was a teacher at Combs, I hired her right out of college. There was that succession plan that whenever anyone stepped out for new opportunities. Everything just continued because it was so much a fabric of the school. So many of our teachers went on to get advanced degrees, never thought that they would do that. Some left because they had dreams of entrepreneurship and they started their own businesses, but everyone was working from the inside out to become all that we thought. Individually we could become and equally as important to create a school that every child wanted to come to that would leave a lasting impact.

Vicki Davis (36:45): Your words remind me of my mentor, Grace Adkins who retired from full-time teaching at age ninety-four. She passed not too long ago, she went viral when she retired. She was my second grade teacher and said every child a winner not that we give them all a trophy, but that every child does have their different talents and you focused on leadership.

Vicki Davis (37:02): Take me on a verbal tour. Tell me what I would see from like morning to when school ends, like, the habits and the things that happen in the classroom as well as the types of things that students or teachers might be doing and also your role

Muriel Summers (37:19): We had a incredible assistant principal whose name was Michael Armstrong and he died at a very early age of forty. But Michael left a lasting impact and he would always say, can you feel it? So the moment you would walk in the building, we wanted people to feel something. And Vicki, you know exactly what I'm talking about. You don't have to be in a school very long. Just a few minutes to know what that school is about by what you see, what you hear, and what you feel. When the children entered the building, there were big words right above the doors. So when they got off that bus, these were the words that they saw and continue to see. And I feel like I'm gonna get emotional, but you are seen, you are known.

Muriel Summers (38:12): And you are loved. And when they got off that bus, they would hear happy music playing. Teachers would be out greeting the children as they got off the bus, calling them by name. It was a requirement, you know every child's name. They would call them by name. Always modeling we model what we expect to see our children do.

Muriel Summers (38:34): So they hear that fun music, hear their name being said, were so happy you're here. They'd walk up the steps, they'd look at those words. You are seen, you are known, you are loved. They'd walk in to the building. There was always someone standing there to greet them. I helped to get children out of the cars so I could see the parents and so everyone was in the hallway. Children would go to their classroom and they were greeted. Social etiquette, big part of what we taught as well.

Muriel Summers (39:03): They would either high five, shake the hand, do a little dance, do whatever. So that first connection with their teacher was being made that day. The walls were required to teach and to reflect our students' genius. I always had some challenges with our fire marshals because when we had an art show.

Muriel Summers (39:25): There were 900 pieces of art on the wall because every child had their art displayed. Wasn't just a few, it was all because we wanted our children to see themselves as leaders in art, leaders in music, leaders in public speaking, and the list goes on and on. Based on their genius and based on their passion.

Muriel Summers (39:47): My favorite teacher, Miss Rose. So much of Miss Rose is embedded in the culture of a Bcoms. She told us every day, it mattered not where we came from. What mattered was the size of our dreams and our hopes for our own future. And we were the sons and daughters of cotton workers and mill workers and cotton farmers in rural North Carolina. So much of what is in the classrooms today becomes is a reflection of each teacher's favorite teacher. What did they do? What did they have up? So we wanted the school to reflect leadership. So there's lots of quotes. I know you're a collector of quotes. There are lots of quotes throughout the building, but they're not just words, Vicki.

Muriel Summers (40:33): We take our children several times during the year on a field trip throughout the school to say, what does this mean to you? What do you want this to look like? The school is very much child-centered based on what children have said they wanted, and also what we wanted the walls to teach. You will see the Seven Habits Tree in the building. You will see photographs of great leaders. It's very important to us that we put role models of great leadership, great examples of great leaders in front of our students. And whether we find that on the news or whether we find that in a sports arena or we're where we find that in a piece of great literature, we're always pointing out the characteristics of great leaders. The end of the day, the morning begins with a morning meeting. So every child is having a voice and a say, and those meetings are very powerful. They're as important as instruction as far as I'm concerned because they set the tone. And then every afternoon we conclude with doing an evaluation on how we did in our classrooms, what went well? What are the opportunities for improvement tomorrow? And the teacher stands in the doorway as each child leaves and tells them to have a great night. And that's exactly what Miss Rose did. She would say, how am I gonna make it to the next day without you? How am I gonna make it through the night? Because I'm gonna miss you so much. And you know what, Vicki, we believed her. We believed she was gonna miss us. And we loved her to pieces. And the impact that one lady had on the lives of so many, your teacher, you as a teacher. And I hope. Me as a teacher, I hope I left a little bit of my heart in every child that I taught and that I in every teacher that I encounter. I hope I leave a little bit of myself with them.

Vicki Davis (42:34): Take me back to when you would have a new teacher start at your school and you had this framework in place Imagine yourself standing in front of that group of new teachers and you're ready to embark on imparting this culture. What did you say?

Muriel Summers (42:50): Well, before they were ever hired, students assisted me in the hiring process. And what I mean by that is a teacher jumped through several hoops to be a teacher at Combs. And one of those hoops was the administrators reviewing the file and saying this person looks like they could be a good match. Then we brought children in and we never asked children, Vicki. We taught them how to interview someone as young as five years old. Children know what they're looking for in a teacher. In their mind they know what they're looking for, but we let them loose. Now there was always an adult in the room with the children who were interviewing the teacher, but the adult's job was not to tell the children what to say. But to listen so that we could debrief afterwards and say, this is what you did well. Children in essence were learning how to interview as they interviewed a teacher. And children would ask the most amazing questions, Vicki. Questions that we never thought about asking. And the teachers that we were interviewing would always say the student interview was by far the hardest. And there now we never said anything other to the student. They were not responsible for determining if a person got hired or not, but their voice mattered. And it mattered to us. There was only one time, Vicki, in all the years, 20 years, that children were part of interviewing.

Muriel Summers (44:23): Did I go against what the children said? It was like they were looking for the same things we were looking for. But this was a gentleman who had a degree from a local university, very well known. He had this business background of systems thinking. And I was so intrigued by, you know, no matter how good you are, continuous improvement, how do you get better?

Muriel Summers (44:48): He had that — but he had

Vicki Davis (44:50): Sharpen the saw. Right.

Muriel Summers (44:52): a business skill set that I didn't have, and I thought how valuable he would be on our team. So he had majored in business, an MBA degree in business, but had always wanted to be a teacher, or so he thought he did. The children said he's very smart. So he's a genius. He's a leader in intelligence because they picked up on this man was very smart. But we don't think he gets kids. We don't think he understands kids. And I'm like, tell me more. We just don't think he gets what kids are about. I thought, well, they're gonna learn to like him and I need him and we're gonna hire him. He lasted until November.

Vicki Davis (45:34): My goodness. So the kids were right.

Muriel Summers (45:36): The kids were right. There was another time that, I would always say my story. I didn't do my homework as well as it should have, but I sure am glad I said yes to A.B. Combs. But we always do our homework about something. And so they interviewed this one teacher, and she was like Miss Honey. You remember that kid, Miss Honey from the movie? She was just so amazing.

Muriel Summers (46:02): But she knew nothing about the seven habits. She had not done her homework that our school was a seven habits school. So in the end, the children said she didn't know the habits, and she should have told us she didn't know the habits, because we think she was faking it. That's what they said.

Vicki Davis (46:22): My goodness.

Muriel Summers (46:23): But we think she's wonderful. She's got everything else. And don't worry, Miss Summers, we can teach her.

Muriel Summers (46:32): About the habits — we know the habits, we can teach her. We did hire her, and she went on to be a finalist for North Carolina's Teacher of the Year. Dr. Covey would say a little child shall lead us. And I think that was really the fabric of everything. We let our children lead, let them have a voice.

Muriel Summers (46:56): Let us listen to them. They're our number one customers if you're a business person, our stakeholders, and let them help us develop this school. So it's a school.

Vicki Davis (47:07): This just sounds like a like a dream. So Muriel, you have teachers and administrators listening to you thinking, okay, so I wish I could work for you, but you know, you're no longer in a front office where I can go work for you. How what are some things I can bring to my classroom tomorrow from The Leader in Me or from your newer book?

Muriel Summers (47:32): You know, it truly is Vicki now, because and I say it humbly, the success of A.B. Combs and Dr. Covey writing about us without any plan in place of how, when people read his book, the Eighth Habit, he wrote about what we were beginning to do at A.B. Combs.

Muriel Summers (47:53): People started calling from all over the world because the genius behind that book was a CD. It was one of the first books that had a CD in the back.

Vicki Davis (48:04): I had that CD.

Muriel Summers (48:06): So people watched the CD first. Did you watch the CD so did I. And so there it was our little chapter. People started calling from all over the world. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how to manage it. I was leading a school. I was the principal's. I couldn't manage all the calls that we were getting. So that's how The Leader in Me was really born. It wasn't called The Leader in Me back then. But now there is a framework, there is support, there is a incredible website that schools can look at and refer to you know there are over 8,500 schools in over 60 countries around the world that are teaching the same thing that we started at A.B. Combs. So there is that framework. But this Teacher Believed in me the companion book, if you will, Leader in Me and Teacher Believed in Me go hand in hand. They're they support one another. I and Teacher Believed in me as an outcome of Teacher Believed in me because we wanted to give homage to great teachers. What do great teachers do differently? So the books help you with that. You know, all we know is all we know until we see something different. Because Vicki, I didn't know what in the world to do as a principal. I was drowning.

Muriel Summers (49:30): Personally and professionally, I was barely holding on. But I believed in us. I believed in those teachers who needed somebody to believe in them. And we just said we can do this. And so that quote never underestimate what a committed group of people can do, because indeed It's what has changed the world. And I do think in a s very small way, A.B. Combs has changed the world in terms of what schools should look like, sound like, and feel like based on the hearts of teachers and the hopes and dreams of children. If I can do it, Vicki, anybody can do it. It's just this belief — not

Muriel Summers (50:17): to get caught up in the whirlwind of those things that matter least. But let us stay focused on what matters most. And to me, it's just love just love the teachers, love the children enough that you will give your very best to help them all succeed.

Vicki Davis (50:36): and my mom, who was a great teacher and my closest mentor loved the seven habits, always said you've got to create your to-be list before you create your to-do list. Cause the things you do, they're they're they're just a overwhelming number of things that you could do. But if you don't know what you want to be, you have no ability to determine the right thing to do. And it just really seems like your school and the book, which has been around for a while, just great book. I was I was starstruck when I got the email that your organization was gonna let you come on interestingly, my mom wrote a lot of character education material for the school where I taught for 16 years. There were more than one story that she pulled, those are the things that my kids remember from school, those stories of that show them who to be so they can decide what to do. So we've been talking with Muriel Summers. She's a principal took a struggling Title I elementary school, A.B. Combs in Raleigh, North Carolina. And worked on making that school a school that focused on leadership and she has an updated book of The Leader in Me and also a new book Teacher Believed in Me Muriel thank you so much for coming on the show there's so many stories to tell. Thanks for coming.

Muriel Summers (52:03): Vicki, thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Announcer (52:07): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (52:11): You were seen, you were known, you were loved. Those are the words Muriel put above the door at A.B. Combs so every child read them walking in. I keep thinking.

Vicki Davis (52:23): What if the grown-ups walked in under those words too? There's a book called Multipliers by Liz Wiseman, and she found there are two types of leaders: multipliers who get more than a person's capability out of them, and diminishers who actually shrink the people they lead because they don't listen and the talent in the room goes quiet. And teachers, here's the part that makes me think.

Vicki Davis (52:50): This is true of us with kids too. We can be multipliers and diminishers. Some of us get everything a child has, and then some, and some of us just complain about the child we were handed. Sometimes I've done both. So the leader and the teacher that we're becoming, we get to choose which one. My mom was a great teacher, my closest mentor, and she loved the seven habits that Muriel talked about.

Vicki Davis (53:15): And she used to tell me, you've got to make your to-be list before you make your to-do list. Because there'll always be a hundred things you could do. But if you don't know who you want to be, you have no way to choose the right thing to do.

Vicki Davis (53:27): So you might say, well, I'm not the principal. How does today's show apply to me? Every single person in a school, We're all leaders. Now, the Lord of the Rings series is a treasure to so many of us because one reason Tolkien wrote that series is to prove that the smallest and most ordinary people can change the course of the world. He also wanted to teach us that power and pride can destroy those who hold it. So just like Frodo was the weakest character, his humility and persistence changed his world. And you and I, no matter how small we think we are, we can change ours. Now let me tell you a story out of today's headlines about Patrick O'Neill.

Vicki Davis (54:19): Patrick O'Neill is a chemistry teacher at Ivy Tech Community College in Indianapolis. While teaching a full load of chemistry courses, he was working on a research project about cognitive offloading, which has to do with how we think. So while he wasn't an expert in it, something didn't add up. The outcomes and the interventions, they weren't coherent. Everything he was reading was wildly different in these analyses that claimed that generative AI had positive effects on learning. So Patrick, chemistry teacher at a community college, started reading. He read 40 papers and chapters on meta-analysis methods so he could understand how they work. Then he found and carefully read.

Vicki Davis (55:11): Fourteen meta-analyses of generative AI in education. Then he read a sample of the 60 papers underlying this analysis. And then he published a forensic review of these fourteen papers. Patrick found fabricated citations, inconsistent groups of people studied, but he even found three references published before November 2022. Now ChatGPT came out on November 30th, 2022. But three of these papers cited studies about ChatGPT, and they were before that date. So I heard about Patrick O'Neill from my friend Justin Reich, who works for MIT. And he talked about them and said that many are questioning the generative AI research they have been citing because of Patrick, a chemistry teacher at a community college.

Vicki Davis (56:05): You see, like the humble hobbit who changed his own world, it seems that nowadays, in the age of AI, that human greatness shines brighter amidst the gleam of machines, which can't create, but can only emulate the shining moment that we simple humans have doing an important job faithfully. In a world numbed by reels and TikToks, where people aren't giving their full attention to what is right in front of them, the person who is a remarkable human being is being attentive and bringing their full human mind to bear on the problems of today. They are thinking they are paying attention. So you might think, and I might think, that AI is the precious of this moment in this age.

Vicki Davis (56:55): Human excellence is the Excalibur that will raise greatness from the lake where many are drowning in laziness. We can be a Frodo, we can be a Patrick O'Neill, but the best thing you and I can be is just me. Be your amazing human self. Be a thinker. Be attentive. Be faithful in the small things. Be your unique, remarkable self. And when you decide to be those things, you can do amazing things and make a difference in the world. We are all leaders and may we all be remarkable. Today's children need us to be leaders and to help them lead as well.

Vicki Davis (57:36): So next time on the next show, we're going to take that into the building with two National Principals of the Year who lead with love and prove that it works.

Vicki Davis (57:45): You'll find every link in both parts of this series at coolcatteacher.com/becoming. I'm Vicki Davis, and you've been listening to Cool Cat Teacher Talk. See you later, educator.

Announcer (57:57): Follow that Cool Cat Teacher everywhere you connect.

This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki

Vicki Davis (00:00): Cool Cat Teacher Talk, leading with love, our leadership series part two.

Announcer (00:08): Ever wondered how remarkable teaching happens? Find out right now at Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis. Get insights from top educators, tech tips, and inspiration to elevate your teaching.

Vicki Davis (00:21): Booker T. Washington said something about leadership. He said most leaders spend their time trying to get other people to think highly of them when what they should be doing is getting their people to think more highly of themselves. Think about that. It's not about others looking up at you as the leader. It's about others standing taller because you're in the room, helping them see the beauty in themselves. Last time on part one, we talked about who you're becoming as a leader. The idea that we decide who we want to be before we decide what we want to do. Today, we've got two women who lead with love. And before you decide that love is a soft word in that sentence, let me tell you, it's the hardest, most disciplined thing on this show.

Vicki Davis (01:07): Because both of my guests were named a 2026 National Principal of the Year, not because they were nice, but for results and for the numbers, but also for how they worked with the humans in the building. And when you ask them how they did it, they both say the same word, love. This is part two of our leadership series. It's leading with love. If you missed part one with Ronn Nozoe and Muriel Summers, go back and get it. It's the who you're becoming half. And this one is about how you live it out. Today, we're in the hallways at the rolling desk and in the hard conversation. So let's get started. Amanda Jamerson, she goes by AP, and online, she's AJAM the Advocate, is the associate principal at Shorewood High School in Wisconsin.

Vicki Davis (01:53): And she's the 2026 National High School Assistant Principal of the Year. Let's learn from Amanda.

Announcer (02:00): Cool Cat Teacher Talk, with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (02:04): Today we're talking with Amanda Jamerson, also known as AP Jamerson and known online as AJAM the Advocate. Now, today I will be calling her AJAM because that's her online presence, but a lot of the people around her call her AP, so you may hear both. She is an associate principal at Shorewood High School and the 2026 National High School Assistant Principal of the Year. She and her team built a restorative discipline framework that cut office referrals by 69% and a cell phone policy that actually worked. And she calls it heart work. Let's hear how she and her team did it. First of all, AJAM, why do you call this heart work?

Amanda J. Jamerson (02:56): First, thank you, Vicki, for having me. Super excited to have the opportunity to share about some of the amazing work happening in Shorewood School District. But more importantly, just the amazing work our students are doing, because it's our students who are doing the work and our staff who are doing it. And so that is why I say heart work because every day, you are not going to feel it. You're not going to feel excited. I know that it doesn't always feel good, but if you can go home every night knowing you've made a difference in your heart, that is what matters. I lead with my heart and my students know that. They know I'm always going to share that with them.

Amanda J. Jamerson (03:30): Like, hey, you could always talk to me. My door is always open. I don't sit in my office. I actually sit, if I am sitting in the main office, it's in the conference room or I have my rolling desk just so that students see me and they know that they can always talk to me about anything.

Vicki Davis (03:44): This is a big trend. The rolling desk. Explain what the rolling desk is.

Amanda J. Jamerson (03:49): So the rolling desk just allows me to be out more with students. And so we have a unique campus. So we actually have like five different buildings on our campus that classrooms are in. So it's kind of like a setup, like a college campus. And so what happens is I will roll and I'll get on the elevator, go up and down the floors and the different buildings just for kids to see me. But it's also like if I'm doing observations, I have all my things and I just can pop in. It doesn't feel weird for students to see me with that. It's actually funny because when we were introducing the cell phone policy that first year, students would see me collecting.

Amanda J. Jamerson (04:21): I have a little bag that I carry on my Roland desk and they'd be like, how many did you get today? Did you get 20? Because it became a cooler thing for them to see how many phones I was collecting because they knew that they were like, oh, my phone's in the caddy. That is like one of my favorite things about this, kids will just say, they'll even say the most random things to me, just like, oh, like, I have a fun fact for you. It is just because I'm just rolling in the hallway. And so I absolutely love the ability to do that. And just being present, because it again, reinforces hard work, where kids know like, okay, Ms.

Amanda J. Jamerson (04:52): Jamerson truly cares. And so like, even if I see them like doing something, I'll just give them my eye and I'll just look. And then they're like. Okay, I'll go.

Vicki Davis (05:00): So you have a cell phone policy that actually worked. And like you said, you're in five different buildings at my school. The kids have them up in their lockers, but you wanted them to have their phones going between the buildings. To describe your policy, How you made it work and any improvements since you did it?

Amanda J. Jamerson (05:15): We are seeing students talk to one another. We're seeing them actually engage, which to me is amazing in a high school. Especially having the different buildings, being able to walk into a classroom and seeing students actually talking to one another, even during an advisory timeframe where it's kind of relaxed. They're not just on their cell phones or on their devices. They're engaging with their peers, which is phenomenal across the board. But I would say what has made it work is our staff. Our staff and our community having that buy-in. We made sure that we involved stakeholders when we were creating the cell phone policy.

Amanda J. Jamerson (05:47): We knew it was a need because our staff kept letting us know, myself and my principal, they made it very clear like, hey, cell phones are an issue. And so we wanted a policy that would reinforce the expectation, but we also thought about safety. We do have the different buildings. And so what happens if a kid just is only able to keep it in their locker, their locker is in building B and they are in building C. So we've got about all of the complexities as it relates to that. And so we have cell phone caddies. They see their cell phone. They can look and see, OK, my cell phone is right here. You know, I have to put it in.

Amanda J. Jamerson (06:19): Teachers are able to check that off. Some teachers, they use that as their way to take attendance so students know, hey, I put my cell phone in the caddy, take a seat, and then the teacher is looking at the caddy as they're taking attendance. So they're making sure all the cell phones are up. The buy-in from staff was, it was pretty easy because staff wanted this. Parents actually, one of the feedback early on that we got was parents were like, well, what if I need to talk to my student during the day? Because I'm not. Anyone in education knows, especially in high school, parents do reach out to their students a lot during the school day.

Amanda J. Jamerson (06:52): And so we were like, hey, we'll have a phone in the main office. If you call and say you need them to give you a call, we'll get them from class. They can make that call. Go back to class. And that has not created any issues. Students are just coming down. They'll say, hey, I got to use the phone. I'll call my mom and go back to class. So that's been great.

Vicki Davis (07:10): And that's the way we did it for years, right?

Amanda J. Jamerson (07:13): Yes. And I was like, when I was a kid, I had to go to the main office to call home if I needed to call home for something. So we're just going back to that. But I think to students seeing that it's an expectation, every classroom has been key. So it's really reinforcing that to staff. And so when we wrote this out to staff, we wanted to make sure staff fully understood it. And so we did some different activities where we actually had to annotate the cell phone policy as it was written. And then we shared out different, like what we took from it as a staff. And they were in small groups. And then we did this as a large group to just share out and really discuss, okay, well, let's talk about this scenario.

Amanda J. Jamerson (07:48): What if this happens in my classroom? So now we're at the stage where students, if they forget or something happens, teachers will take it. They'll say, hey, it'll be in the main office. Kids know it'll be in the main office until the end of the day. Our families are amazing with the cell phone policy. Parents have like told me, I'm like, oh, they have to leave their cell phone with me. And the main office parents are like, you know what, Ms. Jamerson, you just won't bring it to school today because you shouldn't even have to do that. And I'm like, thank you. So we are seeing a lot of buy-in because parents know that we're holding all students accountable.

Amanda J. Jamerson (08:21): And so they want to make sure that their child is following that expectation. So it's been amazing.

Vicki Davis (08:26): You've also done some really awesome things with your discipline practices. So describe what you all have done and how does discipline look at your school and what changed?

Amanda J. Jamerson (08:39): This is ending my fifth year. And so in coming to Shorewood, one of the things I noticed right away, there were some wandering students. So students will wander in the hallways. So we revamped the attendance policy to make sure we have students in the classroom. And as soon as that occurred, I started to see a spike in our ODRs (office discipline referrals). And I knew what it was because most students who were typically wandering or leaving campus because it's open campus, they weren't in the classroom. Now that they were in the classroom, we were having some issues as it relates to behavior. So what I started to do in just preliminary things is talking to students.

Amanda J. Jamerson (09:13): So if a student got an ODR, so office discipline referral, I'd say, hey, did you realize that this was behavior infraction? Did you realize this is a code of conduct violation? Majority of the students who I talked to were like, I had no clue. And I was like, OK, that was the first entry into, OK, we're not we're not really teaching expectations or what behavior looks like or what even is a code of conduct violation. So one of the first things, like my secretary and I work together on this, is we give students assignment notebooks. So we were like, hey, let's just plop that in there. Let's make sure it's front and center so students are able to look at it.

Amanda J. Jamerson (09:48): And then we refer back to it when we do our class meetings as school-wide assemblies. And so that was just the catalyst so that kids even knew expectations. Because I am a big believer in if we've never taught something explicitly or we've never shared something explicitly, how do we expect for people to follow? And that's even just even my teachers like if I've never shown you how to do this or the why behind it I don't expect you to just. Fall in line and say okay we're going to do this and so that's one of those things that was really great to see but then also in talking to staff I wanted to understand why certain behaviors were accepted in classrooms and why certain ones weren't and so relationship was big so if a teacher had a relationship with a student they did have the ability to redirect a kid without it.

Amanda J. Jamerson (10:31): Or without them getting overwhelmed with the redirection because they're like, oh, I have this relationship with the student already established. Right away, I'm like, OK, well, we need to make sure this is more restorative. And so looking at all of the different pieces of feedback that I gathered from survey data to what are you seeing when I do parent reinstatement meetings. And that's still something that was done prior to the new policy for restorative, our restorative actions framework. And so, and even talking to parents, parents sharing, hey, I never even received a call from the teacher. I didn't know this was an issue in their classroom.

Amanda J. Jamerson (11:05): And then it came to the main office. Really being explicit in my expectations about, hey, we're going to call home. We're going to email home. We're going to make sure we do all of these proactive steps to make sure we're engaging our families and our community so that they understand what's happening in the classroom. And so what I love the most about it is there's a reteaching that occurs with the student and the teacher. And there's that small bit of time where the teacher and the student can work together and discuss what occurred and how there was harm in the classroom and look at moving forward together, which does not involve administration.

Amanda J. Jamerson (11:40): And so the kids just being sent to the AP students stay in the classroom. Teachers will say, hey, I want to talk to you after class or come see me at lunch. And they're able to have that conversation. And they're like, hey, I don't want this to have to go to administration. So kids feel validated in that because they feel like their teacher is actually taking the time to talk to them versus just saying, hey, go to administration. So we have like four levels. And then the fifth level is if this is like a reoccurring behavior, there is a ODR process because with all of the amazing things, things still happen. And so I'm a realist when it comes to that.

Amanda J. Jamerson (12:14): And so I always want to make sure I'm honest about that with staff. I'm not expecting any referrals to never be completed. I expect that we are going to get those. And so staff know that. And I want to know because I want to know about what's happening in the classroom. The end of the school year, a couple of weeks ago when I looked, we were at maybe 45 at most office discipline referrals. And so I just think about being in the 200, almost 300 to where we are now. It's really… Students are aware of expectations, but they're also a part of like, hey, why do we have this policy? Why is this in place? And so that, I think, is another layer that we have because, I still did all this work and it was great.

Amanda J. Jamerson (12:52): But then I noticed we saw some reoccurring students that were popping up. So I was like, okay, the student was already suspended or the student got an ODR in this class for this behavior. Another area that we added is we have the peer re-statement meeting, but we also now added a restorative action. So it's like a restorative reflection, essentially. And a student, when they are suspended, I look at whatever their code of conduct violation is, I look at the ODR, and then I work to create a reflection for them. So they have to literally sit down, complete this before they return to school. So we talk about that during the parent re-statement meeting with their parent present.

Amanda J. Jamerson (13:28): And it's a shared document between myself and the student. We talk about who did they cause harm to, who do they need to talk to, and how do they repair that harm. What I can truly say is we've had some more uncomfortable topics that I've had to work through with students. What I can say is the learning that they've received from that and what they understand now and just how their words and how they can be harmful to certain groups of people has been really amazing to see, just students being able to be like, wow. I knew this was wrong to say, but I never knew why it was wrong to say. Now I understand why this is so horrible to say.

Amanda J. Jamerson (14:01): And that to me is the real work. So that's why I say it's hard work, because that to me is a character. We've changed character for that. That student is now going to always think about, okay, wait, this could be harmful. This could really cause harm to someone. And because they're high schoolers, everything is funny. Everything is funny until it causes harm. So that is where I'm really working together and getting feedback. I'm all about like, hey, let's revamp it. Like, hey, you want to change this? Let's do this. And explicitly another thing to add is on the process for teachers that they have, the document they have, it actually gives them verbatim, wording they can use because we all know when those feelings are high and things are happening and you're frustrated, like, you know what?

Amanda J. Jamerson (14:43): I don't know how to say this and how it's going to come across. And so I wanted to explicitly give them language because that's something teachers share is like, hey, when I'm really elevated and I feel like this student is not listening, I might just say like, you know what, I'm done with this today. Instead of saying I'm done with this, you can look at this document and it's in all of the classrooms and they can literally just read off of it and say what they need to say to a student. And it's aligned to our restorative actions framework. so that students, again, it's more restorative. It is not further putting them in silos where they feel as if, oh, I'm part of this group that's always in trouble.

Amanda J. Jamerson (15:21): It's been amazing to see.

Vicki Davis (15:22): So AJAM, you're on social media and you see all of the stuff that's there about restorative practices put in schools and it doesn't work. I know we're not going to criticize anyone's school or anyone's situation, but why do you think in general that schools are getting wrong, that are struggling with restorative practices. Because you see it, a teacher sends a kid out and they come back with a lollipop going, oh man, I got some candy. I don't think that's what restorative is about, is it?

Amanda J. Jamerson (15:51): No, no, not at all. I think what a lot of times is the hustle and bustle of education. We are always moving. We are always shifting with different priorities and different things that are of need. And so I think sometimes what happens is You learn something in August And then September is okay You get a few things But it's okay October You're like Oh the honeymoon is over. And everything you've learned, you kind of are like, okay, I don't remember it anymore. So it's really reinforcing that for staff and then also reinforcing that for students. Always going back to that, but also truly understanding explicitly what this means, how it looks, sounds, and feels.

Amanda J. Jamerson (16:26): And I'm big on that with staff is, okay, let's stop now. Let's now let's role play. Let's look at this together. Let's look at some different scenarios. How would this scenario play out in your classroom? Because the more that we use real life scenarios, we're able to then practice those in real time and internalize them where it becomes like, and I know it's different for everyone because there are some that I have to be like, hey, just a reminder, like, you know, follow this. But one thing I always say, and my supervisor is the same way, we're always, when we have our staff meetings, we're like, hey, looked in the contact log, making sure you're contacting home because staff know, and this is my thing.

Amanda J. Jamerson (17:04): If I look in the contact log, if you send me an ODR for a student and I look in the contact log and I've not seen that you've contacted home, then I'm not going to do anything with that ODR because we have to follow and do our steps as the adults, as the lead learners in the space. We have to follow that because if we're not doing that, then how do we expect our students to? I have an amazing staff who are totally behind it. We have even started to look at our behavior intervention plans for students and looking at them from a restorative lens and how we have our restorative actions framework set up and just making sure we're mirroring some of those things.

Amanda J. Jamerson (17:39): So what does that look like, sound like, feel like for a student? So if a student does this, what is the staff's reaction in real time? What are we giving them? So I think what happens is the learning stops sometimes. It's like I learned this, I had this one great PD about restorative practices and all of these things and then it goes away. I also know. If administration is not following the same steps every single time, then it does create those inequities. So staff sometimes can feel, well, if you aren't doing this, then why do I have to do it? I'm big on communication with staff, so I'll follow up just a quick email.

Amanda J. Jamerson (18:12): Hey, just an FYI, I know this is an issue in your class. I talk to the student. These are my next steps. So staff know in real time what I'm also doing. I've done more this year, actually, than I've ever done. It's like lunch detention. We have open campus lunch, so students love to leave. I'm like, hey, well, you know what? I think this is causing an issue. How about you do detention with me? Like lunch detention. And the amount of kids who do not want a lunch detention, I'm amazed. Like, they're like, I mean, I got to do lunch attention. And I literally see them once for lunch attention, never again. And so what I've found is like, that's a great time because I'm keeping them in, they're not leaving out.

Amanda J. Jamerson (18:50): And so sometimes even if they like, hey, you didn't finish this test you needed. I'm like, you know what, since you're already in here, you might as well just do it with me. You might as well just do the test. It also creates an opportunity for me to just build that relationship with that student for them to see, hey, I'm not suspending you from school, which, you know, some instances I could, I'm like, hey, how about you just do this lunch attention or going back to our cell phone policy, I will just take your phone. I'll keep your phone for two days. They get it at the end of the school day, but it's like they return it back at 8 a.m.

Amanda J. Jamerson (19:24): the next morning. And what I can say is our student body does amazing with that. And I love it because it reinforces that they are following expectations. Even one student, I was like, I'm going to take your cell phone. He was like, that's fair, Ms. Chamberson. I understand. Okay, that's fair. To hear that from a high school mom, he was like, that's fair. I understand. Just the fact that students are able to have those conversations are now just becoming amazing for us as a building. AJAM,

Vicki Davis (19:50): I find it amazing that you can be positive and upbeat on the last day of school. Yeah,

Amanda J. Jamerson (19:55): I'm excited. We're ending out and we have graduation on Sunday, so that's always fun for me. I love the energy that we're going to see with our community and students. When we conclude, I'll be practicing names because I read all the names. So I'll be going to make sure I'm ready for that. But yes, keeping the energy high is important. We have to, but it's also recharging.

Vicki Davis (20:16): Wonderful. So we've been talking with Amanda Jamerson, AP Jamerson, known online as AJAM, the advocate. She's associate principal at Shorewood High School and 2026 National High School Assistant Principal of the Year. So AJAM, congratulations and thanks for sharing all this on the show.

Amanda J. Jamerson (20:40): Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.

Announcer (20:43): Cool Cat Teacher Talk, with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (20:47): So here's the line from Amanda that I want to pull from that interview. If we've never taught something explicitly, how do we expect people to follow it? Even our teachers. She said if a teacher sends her a discipline referral but hasn't called the students home yet, she doesn't act on it. Because adults follow the steps first. We're the lead learners, she said. But if we won't do the thing we're asking of them, we've got no business asking. So that's leadership as a mirror. You go first, you do the hard, unglamorous, do-it-yourself work before you ask somebody else. And that heart, that I'll do it first and I'll do it for you, is exactly how our next guest leads a middle school.

Vicki Davis (21:34): She just says it in two languages. Sonia Ruiz is the 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year. She leads Jane Addams Middle School in Bolingbrook, Illinois. She was recognized because her English learners and her students with IEPs (Individualized Education Programs) are making real measurable gains. And her school has earned exemplary status three years running. When you ask Sonia her secret, she says it plainly, con corazón, with heart. That's how she leads. And she'll tell you why it's personal. Today we are talking with Sonia Ruiz, the 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year in the United States. Sonia leads Jane Addams Middle School in Bolingbrook, Illinois, recognized in part because her English learners and her students with IEPs are making real, measurable gains.

Vicki Davis (22:25): She will tell you straight up why we've got to do it with love. Sonia, congratulations for being named the 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year. Could you describe what went through your mind?

Sonia E. Ruiz (22:39): I was named in person. I have one for my state, for Illinois, so I knew going out there I was getting an award for that. In February, I was asked to be part of a webinar similar to this, but it was a panel. That is when I was informed that I was one of three finalists in Washington. I was not prepared to hear that I was going to be the winner of 2026. It was pretty exciting, humbling. I just never imagined that a kid like me, where I never felt like the system was made for me, that I would be here now as the winner.

Vicki Davis (23:11): You are four years into Jane Addams. When you walked in that first year, what did the school feel like and what's different now?

Sonia E. Ruiz (23:19): This school has always had a history of excellence. It is a very diverse school and a community that is very diverse. I remember coming to the interview and after meeting the staff feeling like whoever gets that principalship is going to have a great place to work at. So I'm going to tell you, there were some things already that were in place that made it great. And the people are one of them. So I was excited to be here. This school in this district, their values match mine. And sometimes that's difficult to find. We were coming out of COVID a couple years when I started here. So there were some things we needed to change.

Sonia E. Ruiz (23:56): The demographics of our students has continually changed. And that's the thing with education. You have to make sure that everybody in the building is meeting the needs of the students that you have now. So you might have been doing something that worked fantastic a couple years ago with the students you had before. You have to continually see where do I need to do or sharpen my skills to make sure that I'm helping the students that are here now. Big thing for us was making sure students felt like they belong, that they were seen, heard. With everything that happened after COVID, that was one of the initiatives that we had.

Sonia E. Ruiz (24:32): So most school improvement plans actually just have math and reading. For us, it was important to not just have the academic and learning portion, but also the environment and the equitable practices that we were having in the building. So that's where we started, because if we don't have the mindset that all of our students can grow, then we're going to have a lot of time. It's hard for them. And if our kids don't feel like they belong here, then it's going to be difficult for them as well. So we wanted to make sure that kids from the minute they walked in knew that the people that were here are here because we care for them.

Sonia E. Ruiz (25:09): And in that same vein, it isn't just about emotions, right? So it's also making sure that we have a high quality education for the students that come here. And then we have high expectations for them because I know that they can do it. So those were some of the things that I think made a difference. This last year, but really, I think the work that we've done moves beyond just CERN students. Part of it, like I said, was the belonging, making sure we were here, creating an MTSS (Multi-Tiered System of Supports) system to ensure that we had the intervention students need or support if we're not getting it at universal level one. So we've just seen so much growth within our system, our staff and the interventions that we provide.

Sonia E. Ruiz (25:50): So it's been fantastic to be able to look back at all the things that we've been able to do in the last four years. And even with that mindset, so like, OK, so what are we going to do even better next year?

Vicki Davis (26:02): When you say we've got to do it with love, what does that look like?

Sonia E. Ruiz (26:06): The best way that I can say it is I'm a mom myself. Right. And when you send your children to a school, you want to make sure that the people that are there care for your kids. So I care for every student that walks in our building. I care for who they are right now, and I care for who they're going to be in the future. In Spanish, there is a term that says, like with heart. And that's really what that kind of means.

Vicki Davis (26:29): I love that. So when you stand up in front of your new teachers that you hire for next year, and you try to bring them on board with what your culture is going to look like, what do you say first?

Sonia E. Ruiz (26:41): Well, I do this even at our every institute just because our kids, They don't get a choice what school they go to. The students that come in through that door, it's because we're in this neighborhood. So they get to come to us. We're here to service them. So regardless of their background, how they look, what languages they speak, we got to make sure that we make a place and make it a place where people feel like they belong, but also care enough to stay with the things that we know work and that we're making sure students are learning and providing our staff with the strategies they need to make sure that they're the best educators that they can be.

Sonia E. Ruiz (27:18): Wherever in between, if there are students who need additional help or things of that nature, then we're here to do that. Our school, you know, when I said it's very diverse, it's also diverse in the programs that we have within our schools. We have students with different abilities. We have a program. We're five middle schools in our district. We're the only district that has like students with multiple abilities where they may have like wheelchairs or they may have like Down syndrome, things of that nature. So that program has continually grown since I've been here. This next upcoming year, we're going to have six classrooms of multi-need students at the middle level.

Sonia E. Ruiz (27:56): I think one thing that I'm really proud of what our staff and our students do is making sure that our school is inclusive of everybody. So if I was talking to new teachers or our staff, it's to look at our system and say, hey, When we make this decision, who is it affecting? What's the impact? Even little things people may think are little, but to us, we've seen that it make a difference. Like an assembly. What are the games they're playing? Will there be opportunities for our different students of different abilities to play? You know, where is everybody seated? Who's seated within? That's what kind of looking at inclusivity.

Sonia E. Ruiz (28:32): If we're having an after school dance, if we have a dance, is that open to everybody? Does everybody like noise, right? Some don't. So with the dance, we might also have our library open where kids can go and play board games for those that don't want to be around the music, but still want the social aspect of it. So just different ways that you can look at your daily practices and seeing, are we being inclusive within our building so that it is a place for everybody? So it's really looking at all different things. The other thing that we did that I think that we, you know, when we finished off the year, our last day was the 22nd.

Sonia E. Ruiz (29:08): Four years ago when we started, a lot of times schools give different surveys to see what the culture is like. But many of those are like Likert scale. So like you either agree, disagree, those types. You don't really get the information of when those kids say, no, I don't think this is a great place. So I don't feel like I belong. What does that mean? Right. We created our own form that we've been giving the last four years to get their voice. And it's what things make you feel like they belong, right? And like list them out so that they can put them there. And if there was one thing you wish people in this building knew about you, what would that be?

Sonia E. Ruiz (29:45): And you'd be amazed how much they share through that. And then it gives us an opportunity to know, are the things that we're saying we should be doing, are those the things we should be investing since that makes a difference for the kids or not, you know? So that's another way of making sure that we're being open and changing things through student voice.

Vicki Davis (30:05): I love that because you say these are small things, but these are actually huge things. If somebody doesn't want to be around the music, they're going to have to choose between being around people. Who are in the presence of music or not. So you're giving them a space and you're including them. I mean, that's actually a huge deal to consider how can we include our students. Now, you are known for your gains with English learners and students with IEPs. Like you have national attention. When you look at your numbers, what do you see without using their name? Tell me about some of the kids that are in your mind of like, okay, this is what my amazing teachers did to try to reach kids, and this is what it looks like on a daily basis.

Sonia E. Ruiz (30:50): So exemplary in our state measures many things, the proficiency in ELA (English Language Arts), in math, but also the growth of when students come here. So one of the things that we've been able to show is regardless of what level our students start in sixth grade. By the time they leave in eighth grade, we were at 80-something percent proficiency, which is unbelievable.

Vicki Davis (31:14): Wow. Regardless

Sonia E. Ruiz (31:15): of where they started. So we know that when they're here, they're going to grow. But we also know we can't do it alone. It takes everybody. It takes every staff member. It takes all our counselors. It takes every single person to do specific things. This last year, yes, our focus was EL and our students with IEPs. And we were very strategic. We partnered up with our district office and they came and gave PD along with our coach. To our staff when we were have our monthly meetings. So we would not just teach them, but actually go through the strategy with them. Then go, part of me and my assistant principal is we're visible in the classrooms.

Sonia E. Ruiz (31:54): So then we would go and do learning walks based on the things we said, hey, we just learned this strategy. We want to see, are we seeing, for example, academic discourse in the classrooms? Are those things happening? Then we would give our entire instructional team, our BIT team, would come together after a semester and look at, well, we're really good at this, but we still need to get better at this. It's like a continuous cycle of improvement. What are we doing? How is it working? So when I think about students, it's hard to say like this one kid because it's so overall. I can think of our students have been affected for like our MTSS, where we had one student that just graduated.

Sonia E. Ruiz (32:35): When he was here, He was chronically absent when he started in sixth grade. I remember him being with our counselor and we had to basically create these systems to just try to get him to class that sixth grade year. And by eighth grade, because of the interventions, because he did need additional help in reading, he needed additional help in math, he was getting that intervention within the school day. Along with what we call a lead advisory. So we had advisories, this particular one took students who also had behavior issues and really turned the mindset of like them taking ownership for their goals and what they were going to do for school and their academics and their behaviors at school and started giving them the skills to become mentors to the younger generation.

Sonia E. Ruiz (33:22): That particular student graduated and he was no longer chronically absent. He was passing his classes. He was being successful. It isn't a one thing because I think of all the different things that different teachers did to help him throughout. Right. So his last ELA and ESL and special education teacher, I remember going in because he was super proud of me coming to hear him read. And they were kind of doing reading, but in a theater style format where you take one of the characters and you're reading those parts. When he first started reading in that class, he took like the shorter passages. By the end, he was presenting on things, you know, and that's what we want to see.

Sonia E. Ruiz (34:02): It's like, so regardless of where they are, we know they're going to grow with us. And I think that that motivates us as well because we know something's happening.

Vicki Davis (34:12): So, Sonia, if you could go back to Sonia's first day. And give her advice, what would you tell her?

Sonia E. Ruiz (34:22): I would tell her, don't waver. Continue and persevere. The things that you think are going to be great are going to be great. So just keep working with that.

Vicki Davis (34:32): You know, isn't it difficult when you come into a new school? Why do you think that you had success so quickly? Was it just the school was already great and you came in, but you know, there's principals who go into schools that are already great and it ends up tough. So what are the things that you do on a daily basis that you think, hey, I do think this makes a difference?

Sonia E. Ruiz (34:51): I think it's a combination of things. I think it's important to be somewhere, again, where your ideals do match the school that you're at, right? And second, I think it's my approach. I am a very collaborative type of leader, the same way that I feel that students need to get a new chance every day. Every day is a new opportunity for them. I have that same type of mentality with my staff. Every day is a new day. And if you maybe missed it one day, we're going to do better the next day. I think we have to support each other and believe in each other because it would be hard to move an entire staff or students if you're coming in with an attitude already defeated or being negative about the work.

Sonia E. Ruiz (35:31): So as a leader anywhere, you need to come believing that the people that you have are the right people in the right spots to make the change they need to. And if they're not, then what are you doing to help them? I think it still falls on you as a leader, but you can't do this job alone. So I can't just make decisions by myself. I also have to value because of the school and what they were doing really well. Many of the things that we started knew We first analyze and assess. It wasn't like, oh, you're doing this wrong. Let's just change it. It would be like, what are we doing as an empty assessor when we first started?

Sonia E. Ruiz (36:07): And there were little things that they were doing as a school, but we used a rubric and that takes it away from the people, right? Because you don't want to hurt anybody's feelings about anything if they were used to doing something. You also, again, want to change with the times and the students that you have. So being open to those changes. As a team, we came up with our own vision and mission. And then that led the work, right? So that it was making sure that we were Equipping the staff with the things that they needed to do. And the staff is our human resource. So we were providing interventions. Some of them started learning how to do circles or how to run things so that it wasn't just our counselors, so that we could be more effective and provide more things.

Sonia E. Ruiz (36:51): That's just one example. We do check and connect. Then finding the strengths of different people, because there's many leaders within the school, but I think together we come together and make it even better. A good leader is like a coach where you see where those all the different pieces are and how do we use everybody's strengths at the right spot. And it isn't about ego because we do have certain people like our coaches or interventionists who are running certain meetings and that's their strength because that's what they're seeing. And it's okay to come in and be a participant of the group and not the one guiding it, you know.

Sonia E. Ruiz (37:27): Obviously offering some input on certain things, but those are the things that I think make people follow the leader because then they feel like, okay, she's open to ideas. She's able to hear us. And then I also have this mentality. I tell the staff like, okay, we just try that. So how do we do this better next year? And again, because we have to continue to grow and every year is different. This year, for example, we had many students who were newcomers or were Spanish speaking was their first language. Normally, we have students who need that program. They go to a different school, even though we're at home school.

Sonia E. Ruiz (38:02): Parents still have the choice if they wanna stay in their home school, which some have. Because although that program is another school, the principals and administration did not speak the language. Some parents within the community talk and then they'll be like, oh, I want her in your program. It'll be like, well, I speak Spanish, but my staff does not. But again, I think it's partnering with our district office. We still were able to provide our students with different supports than normally we were not doing before, but because they were different students. So they provided us with iPads that translated the material and did different things.

Sonia E. Ruiz (38:39): And one particular student I'm thinking of, as you mentioned, I just can't believe her growth from when she started last summer to this year. And she's only been here one year. And I think that's what makes it great. And then just reminding people of that, because we forget sometimes when things are hard, right? So then it's like, no, look, that kid grew this much. Remember when they were in sixth grade? Look at where they are now.

Vicki Davis (39:04): That's wonderful. I love celebrating those wins. Sonia, could you give us one thing, like one small little doable thing that a teacher or principal could do if they were in school tomorrow morning to make one more kid feel like they belonged in that classroom?

Sonia E. Ruiz (39:20): I think the number one thing is stopping and really finding out about that student, like have a conversation with them. Some of the kids in that Google form that we've asked, when we ask what makes you feel like they belong, is They asked me beyond what's going on in school. They asked me about things outside of here. And I think they noticed that and they call me by name because you're just not another face. They know that you've taken the time to get to know them, who they are, and what they do outside of school also matters. So then you start feeling like a regular person, right? Like when you say I belong here, you're really saying me, Sonia, not some other student.

Sonia E. Ruiz (40:00): So, taking the time to get to know the students by name and asking them questions beyond what's going on in school.

Vicki Davis (40:07): So, Sonia, you're leading a middle school in 2026. You have phones, you have AI, you have mental health. All of these things, these pressures that kids feel, they are very real. What is one thing that you wish… That adults outside of schools understood about what middle school teachers are actually walking into every day?

Sonia E. Ruiz (40:28): I'm going to say of all the different age groups, middle school is the hardest. Students who are in this age group are going from looking at the world through black and white lenses, right? This is what my parents say, or this is what my school says. There's no question about it. When you get to junior high, you get the part of your brain that starts now analyzing and questioning things. It is just part of that particular age group and the way your brain works at that time. So they're just figuring it out. So it's really hard to find your voice and advocate for yourself as a student because you're just finding out that now as I'm critically thinking, things aren't black and white.

Sonia E. Ruiz (41:09): There are other facets and I have to figure that out and navigate all that along with all the hormones that are coming and I may react a certain way when they hurt my feelings and social media doesn't help because things don't disappear there are many people putting their own opinion on what they think something occurred or assumptions which makes it even harder and although as adults we might think oh that's that's that's nothing to them, it's the whole world. So I think as an educator in the middle school level, you really have to learn how to navigate that through that, help students how to navigate through that, and be a support through them so they can get through that.

Sonia E. Ruiz (41:49): That's why it's amazing to see the growth from when they started sixth graders versus eighth grade, and then they're ready to go to high school because they're at a whole different level because they've been able to Adjust, find their voice, and interact with everybody else at this level.

Vicki Davis (42:06): What a delightful conversation. We've been talking with Sonia Ruiz, a 2026 National Middle Level Principal of the Year. Sonia, thanks for coming on the show and giving us kind of a glimpse into what you're doing at Jane Addams Middle School in Bolingbrook, Illinois. Thanks, Sonia.

Sonia E. Ruiz (42:25): Thank you so much. Have a great day. Full

Announcer (42:28): Cool Cat Teacher Talk, with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (42:32): The great leaders are like a coach. That leader can see where all the different pieces are, and they figure out how to use everybody's strengths. And the best leaders, it isn't about ego. Sonia said that. Ron, in part one of this series, called leadership a we thing. And Muriel said every child and every grown-up has genius. Amanda calls her whole practice heart work. And Sonia leads con corazón with heart. Three leaders in three different buildings, but one word, love. So I'd like to tell you some stories before we finish today's episode, because stories is how we process, like, what does this look like to be a leader?

Vicki Davis (43:12): So we've talked about a lot of data on this show, office referrals being down 70%, proficiency numbers up into the 80s, exemplary status three years running. And data is awesome. I teach computer science, but even when we talk data, we're still talking about humans. Every number in a spreadsheet at your school has a name and a face in a backpack. And even when we talk tools, and you know I love tools, ultimately, it's always about humans. I believe the educators and the leaders who are going to be excellent in the years ahead are the ones who understand this. Tools are useful. Humans are priceless. So let's talk about what this looks like.

Vicki Davis (43:54): Years ago, my son John came home on the first day of school, and he just lit up about one of his teachers. He was like, she's really interesting. I'm going to love her class. So me being the teacher I am, I said, hey, what did she do? And I thought she must have given some amazing lecture on literature. No, she had the students draw a coat of arms for themselves on poster paper about what mattered to them, divided into different areas. So one might be about a hobby and one might be about something else. In one of those squares, John drew Minecraft because at the time in his life, Minecraft mattered to him. When she stopped at his desk, she talked with him about that.

Vicki Davis (44:37): Minecraft had his heart. Miss Shealy ended up with his heart because she talked to him about something he loved. He felt seen and he had a connection and he walked in the door talking about it. But here's what I've noticed. Kids rarely change the opinion they form on the first day of school. I know that if I can connect with a student early, preferably on that first day, and know them and see them and learn what they love, it makes all the difference for the whole year. This is why, if at all possible, the kids shouldn't miss that first day, because so many teachers are really trying to get to know the students. Research backs this up.

Vicki Davis (45:19): Psychologist Roy Baumeister reviewed the studies on belongingness, and he found that many of the strongest emotions we feel, both positive and negative, are influenced by how connected we are to the other people in that environment. So here's what he wrote, that people need, quote, frequent positive interactions with the same individual, and they need those interactions in a framework of long-term stable caring and concern. Okay, this goes every different direction, whether it's your colleague or your principal or your other teachers. Frequent positive interactions. Long-term stable caring and concern. That is the classroom.

Vicki Davis (45:59): That's our job description. But that's also with the leaders. And I think about when I really struggled with my principal or my boss. You know, we have to manage up. There's books on that. And part of that is what is my interaction with them like? Am I actually going to them and saying positive things that happen? Or I don't want to always be down when I'm talking to my leaders. But connection isn't only built on the first day. A lot of times, strongest connection is built on the hardest days. Let me give you an example. When I find out that there's a new baby at a student's house, I ask that student a question. What can I do for you about what we're doing this week in class?

Vicki Davis (46:43): Because I know the parents may be the ones up at 2 a.m. holding the baby, but that sibling is in their bed down the hall listening to the baby cry, and nobody in that house is sleeping. Sometimes the student just says, okay, no, I'm tired and I'm not at my best. Sometimes they might say, Miss Davis, you know that big project at the end of the week? Could you give me a few more days? I am worn out. And as long as it isn't the end of the grading period, I try to give that. Because here's what happens. A student gets their rest and they come back better than ever. You know, we have concussion protocols, but even an injury or something really busy in sports or theater week, I give the students choices and say, hey, do you want to turn it in early or later?

Vicki Davis (47:32): And that flexibility lets my students know that they're being seen, they're feeling heard, they're being noticed. And when you have that connection with a student, you can see it in their eyes. But I have fallen short many times. Every so often, there's been a student I just did not connect with. Mostly, it's the student who's absent a lot. They miss those foundational moments that I build into the program and building at the start. And when they come back, it is a mistake for me to be so stressed about them making up their work that I don't slow down and get to know them. I remember one time a boy missed the first two weeks of school, and I know that was not a great start.

Vicki Davis (48:16): There was some things going on, but I just rushed him and he never felt connected. And his mom told me that. So I own that. And I've tried to learn through the years to be really careful about that first connection with my students and the parents. So my first priority is the human connection every day. I try to call that child by name when they come in. I look them in the eye. I notice if they're tired. I say, hey, you tired today? And they'll say, oh, I had a late game last night. That helps me. But they know that I see them. And then when I struggle, they see me. But you know, this is not just about students. This is about the grownups too.

Vicki Davis (48:58): Shawn Achor in The Happiness Advantage, which was my book of the year last year, I gave it to all the seniors that I taught. He points to a study of over 350 employees and 60 business units. And the greatest predictor of a team's achievement was not the individual skills of its members. It was about how the members felt about each other Google found the same thing when it spent two years studying its own teams. The best teams weren't the ones with the biggest brains in the room. They were the ones where everybody felt safe enough to speak up and everybody felt heard. Researchers who followed hundreds of Chicago schools for years found this pattern in the K-12 world too.

Vicki Davis (49:42): The schools that improve are the schools where the adults trust each other. So think about what Amanda told us. Her discipline framework works because the teacher and the student already have a relationship. And think about what Sonia said. She can't move a building alone, so she finds everybody's strengths and helps put them in the right spots. So this brings us to the 1980 hockey team for the U.S. Herb Brooks was building the U.S. Olympic hockey team to face a Soviet team that had dominated the sport for a generation. And when Brooks made his cuts, he passed over some big name talent. The story goes that his assistant questioned him about it.

Vicki Davis (50:23): And Brooks said, I'm not looking for the best players. I'm looking for the right ones. And a whole bunch of American college kids went to Lake Placid and beat the best team in the world. We call it the miracle on ice, but it wasn't magic. It was a coach who understood that the right humans who trust each other will beat the best resumes every single time. I can hear some of you driving right now going, Vicki, this sounds beautiful, but you don't know what happened to me. You don't know what was said about me. And no, I do not know. But I do know how trust gets broken between humans in every school building and home in America and around the world.

Vicki Davis (51:06): And there's one tool that can help repair it. So I need to tell you one of my favorite stories that I always tell my students and teachers from Will Rogers. So if you've heard of Will Rogers, he was a famous cowboy of yesteryear. And he once said, I never met a man I didn't like. And he was known for loving people. He was just friendly and really affable. But there's a story he told about something that happened on his ranch that has stuck with me all these years. Will Rogers had a large ranch and a lot of cows. Now, I have worked with cows on our farms, and I can tell you, cows can be really challenging, and it's always that one that just does not behave, and they get out.

Vicki Davis (51:49): I remember when I was pregnant with our oldest son, and I was chasing a cow across Highway 19. That was no fun, and it was scary, and I don't recommend it, okay? But Will Rogers had a cow get out, and even more than that, He found out that there was a farmer and he heard that his cow got over there. So he grabbed his favorite right-hand man and they got on their horses. They were riding out to where this farmer had the cow. And the bad weather starts coming in and they start seeing ice. Well, by the time they get there, there is a mom and two kids at the door. And it's really starting to turn bad. And the mom says, oh, come in, come in.

Vicki Davis (52:31): We're so glad you're here the weather's about to turn you're gonna have to stay overnight and he said yeah and the little kid said it's okay our dad has a cow and he's in the barn butchering the cow will's farmhand looked at him and like raised his eyebrows they knew who that cow belonged to so later the dad came in after the mom had told him they needed some more meat and had these beautiful steaks and they cooked it they had a great dinner the farmhand kept looking at will Rogers, thinking, you know what, he's going to say something, and he never did. So the next morning, they got up and drank their coffee, and they got ready to leave.

Vicki Davis (53:13): And they got on their horses, and they just left. Never said anything about the cow. Well, he and the ranch hand get a little away from the house, and it was really, really quiet, and the farm hand turned to Will Rogers and said, you know, that was your cow. And Will Rogers said, yep. The farmhand said, well, why didn't you say anything? And Will Rogers thought for a moment and he turned to the farmhand and said, you know what? The way I see it, I traded that cow for a little bit of happiness. Now, why am I telling you a story about a cow in a snowstorm in Will Rogers? There are times when you are right and you have been treated wrongly.

Vicki Davis (53:54): Somebody did the wrong thing. Somebody made the wrong decision. Somebody misjudged you. or they hurt you. And if you've been teaching at the same school for more than a year or really more than a month, I promise you that when you start the school year or even when you go back to school, you're gonna be starting with a cow that somebody killed of yours. It's not a real cow, but they've wronged you. And you have a choice. You can go after this person and you can hold them accountable and stay angry. Now, there are times for accountability and I'm not arguing against accountability. But in a big school, there's a lot of opportunity to get your feelings hurt.

Vicki Davis (54:37): And there are times where you have to choose to trade the cow for happiness. You can choose to forgive. You can choose to let go of the bitterness and the anger and the resentment. So here's what I've learned in my more than two decades in schools. When I am a bitter person, I can't get better. I can't innovate. I can't create. I'm so busy being angry about that cow that I can't let it go. I've always read that being angry and resentful is like drinking poison and wishing the other person would die. It doesn't work. You can't leave people with love while you're still carrying that cow. And a whole lot of forgiveness has to happen in classrooms.

Vicki Davis (55:19): So let's circle back. Booker T. Washington said most leaders spend their time trying to get other people to think highly of them. When what they should be doing is getting their people to think more highly of themselves. Muriel put that sign over the doorway, you're seen, you're known, you're loved. Amanda calls it heart work. Sonia leads Corazon. This week, you and I get to decide whether the people in our buildings walk a little taller because we were in the room. We're about to be handed more powerful tools than any generation of educators has had. And we're going to use them. We have to remember, tools are useful, humans are priceless.

Vicki Davis (56:00): Get to know the names. Ask them about Minecraft or whatever it is they really like. Ask what you can do about this week. When somebody kills your cow, think about trading it. You can find both parts of this leadership series at coolcatteacher.com/becoming. Because as I said at the opening of this, I've worked for some of the best principals and some of the worst. And a lot of times those were the same people. Sometimes the worst became the best. Sadly, sometimes the best became the worst. So the question is, who are you becoming? You becoming a better leader? Because there's no such thing as holding steady. We're either improving relationships or they're getting worse.

Vicki Davis (56:44): Sometimes when we get tired and stressed and upset, we make mistakes and we forget to connect. Because a lot of times it's not just what we do, it's how we do it. So I really want you, as you go into your school, to remember, You make such a difference. Now, I remember one time there was some huge controversy going up in the front office in one of my schools. and so upset about it. I was talking to my mom and she said, okay, Vicki, I want you to listen to this. Whatever's going on in the front office, when you close that door, you make the weather in your classroom. And whether you take all that front office junk going on into your classroom with you is up to you.

Vicki Davis (57:27): You need to leave it in the hall and close the door because for some kids, that moment with you is their happiest time of the day and you need to leave it out there in the hallway. Man, that was such a good advice from my mom. So I'm Vicki Davis, and you've been listening to Cool Cat Teacher Talk. Ask yourself today, what kind of leader am I becoming? I hope to see you next week on this station. See you later, educator.

Announcer (57:56): Follow @coolcatteacher everywhere you connect.

Vicki Davis (00:01): Free BBC Resources for Your Classroom. Episode 964. For Fab Idea Friday.

Today we talk about all kinds of free BBC storytelling with lesson plans built by a former teacher.

Number one, check out Bluey — 15 free lessons on friendship, feeling, and reading body language.

Two, every video has leveled articles. Same article, three reading levels.

Three, check out their amazing interactive field trips — Walking with Dinosaurs, Planet Earth Passport, and more.

Announcer (00:35): This is the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (00:39): Today’s show is sponsored by the BBC Learning Hub — a free library of ad-free BBC videos and ready-to-teach lesson plans for pre-K through twelfth grade. Stay tuned at the end of the show to learn more.

Vicki Davis (00:53): Our next guest, Kimmie Fink, spent 13 years teaching. She was named Puget Sound Teacher of the Year, and now she’s Senior Editor at the BBC Learning Hub. She helps bring BBC’s world-class storytelling — from Planet Earth to Walking with Dinosaurs — to everyday classrooms with free, ready-to-use resources.

So we’re at ISTE 2026. First of all, these resources are free. As you’re pulling together content, what did you start, like, looking at to design the content to bring it to classrooms?

Kimmie Fink (01:23): Yeah, you know, I think for me, getting to work for the BBC is kind of a dream, because there’s so much amazing content out there. And you know that it’s trusted, that it’s accurate, that it’s well produced. And I know how much my students enjoyed, in particular, engaging with video — and how hard it was to find quality video, especially on YouTube. It’s full of ads, right?

And so having something that is just safe for my students to watch and that I know is of great quality. We’ve looked through this massive library of BBC content and looked for things that we know are going to be engaging to students. Also my experience as a mom. I see things like the racer snakes chasing the baby iguanas, and I’m thinking, oh, my eight-year-old is going to eat that up. I know that all kids will, because that content is so engaging.

We’re looking to provide supplemental resources for teachers that are just ready to go, like out of the box. So you don’t have to do so much. I also knew that as a teacher, I had my curriculum that I was teaching. I was really looking for things to supplement and to make the experience come to life. So the idea that we have this home for that where you can come is just really appealing to me.

Vicki Davis (02:36): When I was at your booth, you had the videos and you have like lesson plans and you can download it. So like describe: if a teacher wanted to use stuff tomorrow, what would be the kinds of things he or she could expect to be able to get from your site?

Kimmie Fink (02:50): Gosh, it’s hard to know where to start. But for ELA, we have these wonderful articles that are pulled from BBC magazines like Science Focus, History Extra, and Discover Wildlife. And what we’ve done is we’ve leveled them. So it’s the same article, but it’s written at a grade three through five, grade six through eight, grade nine through 12. So your students can access it at whatever level. And we know that in every classroom, just because it’s labeled a fifth grade classroom doesn’t mean everybody’s reading at a fifth grade level, right? But they’re able to access that at any level.

There’s vocabulary built into that. Every single one of our videos has a writing prompt attached to it. So you just pick something you think that your kids are going to be super interested in. Maybe it’s polar bear cubs. And there’s a writing prompt that goes with it. So that’s where I would start with ELA.

With science — Walking with Dinosaurs came out in 1999. And they came out with a completely new version last year. And we got our hands on it first, which was so exciting. It follows six different dinosaurs. You go back and forth in the episode between the dig site and then the CGI dinosaurs. What I did is I went through it. I got to watch all the episodes and then pick out the learning moments. I paired a dig site clip with the CGI clip of the actual dinosaur. Then we created a paleontologist field journal. And then we made an interactive map. So students get this interactive map and you can visit in any order the dig sites. And you watch each of these videos and you take a quiz on it and you fill out your paleontologist field journal.

But there’s some extra fun content in there like, what dinosaur are you? Because obviously you need to do a personality quiz to figure out what kind of dinosaur you are. I’m a Lusotitan.

Vicki Davis (04:22): Oh, I don’t even know what that is.

Kimmie Fink (04:24): It is a massive, massive dinosaur.

But for me, I mean, just having students make that connection and almost kind of put themselves in that role of paleontologist. Because you look and they’re showing you the Spinosaurus’ tail. And then we’re asking you to make some predictions about what do you think that meant about it. And then you watch it and you realize that the Spinosaurus was aquatic. So there’s this real kind of like role playing and figuring things out as you go. And I just think that’s such an exciting experience for kids.

Vicki Davis (04:53): So a teacher can just go and download all this, have all this posted in their learning management system, and then their kids can be paleontologists and basically go on. Now, how long would it take to do the virtual field trip? Is that something that like teachers do, say, hey, one day a week for six weeks — or what’s the time span for it?

Kimmie Fink (05:12): I think that we estimated it was sort of like a 45-minute to 60-minute exploration for the students themselves. But we also have this full teacher guide, so you can do it as part of a larger unit. But something that I felt like as a teacher I needed was, I need to be able to take the piece that I want and not have to do the whole thing — because it’s just like, well, I got to print this and then I got to download this, and it’s too much. So, like, maybe you just want to watch the baby Triceratops video. You can do that. You can watch that individually.

It’s really like, take what you need. So everything is not like a massive production. But you want to do the whole thing, you can do the whole thing.

Vicki Davis (05:46): They’re free.

Kimmie Fink (05:47): It’s really fun. Yeah. It’s a really fun job.

Vicki Davis (05:49): You don’t have — like you said, you don’t have to worry about the ads and all the stuff that happens when we do YouTube content, because there are things that happen. So we’ve talked Walking with Dinosaurs. What are some of the other stories that kids love, that are some of your most popular, that teachers are just like, oh yeah, this is great for my classroom?

Kimmie Fink (06:08): We are so thrilled to be the home to the only licensed learning materials for Bluey. Bluey has such a massive footprint here with kids. I mean, we’ve been here at ISTE and everybody is coming to our booth. There’s been so much engagement. And the way the show is written, it’s just such a natural, you know, way to promote those life skills — you know, friendship and feelings and things like that. And doing it, meeting kids where they’re at.

Vicki Davis (06:32): Body language.

Kimmie Fink (06:34): Oh gosh, huge. Recognizing emotions, right? All of that stuff. Which can be tough.

Vicki Davis (06:39): There is something called a nonverbal learning disability, which is a struggle, and a lot of kids have them. And learning to read that body language is just vital to help kids.

Kimmie Fink (06:49): So we’ve got 15 lessons. They’re all free.

Vicki Davis (06:51): They had two little books. They’re very cute. Because I was looking at them. And you can print them in color or black and white — either way — but they’re really nice.

Kimmie Fink (06:59): So that’s been really popular. One of my other favorite experiences has to do with Planet Earth. I mean, if anybody who knows Sir David Attenborough — I mean, he’s a British national treasure. Is just incredible. He just celebrated his 100th birthday. And I mean, we have so much content from him.

And then we did a collection of the eight most popular Planet Earth videos. And we made a little Planet Earth passport so that kids can go through and watch, you know, the clip on lemurs in Madagascar and then go in their passport and fill out, you know, answer questions and illustrate it and just kind of explore on their own. So that’s been a really popular one as well.

Vicki Davis (07:35): So it sounds like the virtual field trips are really popular with teachers.

Kimmie Fink (07:38): Yeah, that’s really where we’re going — is to create more interactive experiences for kids, because I think it’s really important, that student-facing piece, and they can explore on their own. And it really mirrors the way that they’re consuming content outside of an educational setting.

Vicki Davis (07:53): Well, think about it. You could go to a dig, but archaeological digs are not usually the most exciting places. You can’t guarantee that they’re going to find something on the day you’re there. Otherwise, it’s just going to be dirt, right?

Kimmie Fink (08:03): Right. Yes.

Vicki Davis (08:04): So this way you can actually go on a field trip that you’d expect. It’s going to be consistent and do some cool things. And all that material is there. Y’all have a booth here at ISTE, but it has been hopping. Largely because of Bluey, but also the other stuff.

Kimmie Fink (08:17): I think Bluey draws people in. And then we say, here’s everything else that we have. And people kind of go, wow. And somebody asked me, she said, so is there a free version in addition to a paid version? And I said, no — there’s only free.

Vicki Davis (08:32): Really? I know it.

Kimmie Fink (08:34): Yeah, so it’s great.

Vicki Davis (08:35): It’s free and it’s wonderful. You have seen this from both sides of the desk. Describe a time that something really changed in your classroom because you had the right piece of media.

Kimmie Fink (08:46): We had a reading anthology for our ELA program, as a lot of people do, and it could be a little dry. It was about chimpanzees. And we were engaging with it and it was fine. But I had found some videos of Jane Goodall in the Gombe with the chimpanzees. And I just felt like it made that connection for my kids, because they could actually see this person.

We think about, when we’re reading about chimpanzees, and of course the goal is, you know, comprehension and things like that. But I also want kids to care about conservation and things like that. We talked about storytelling, and I feel like it’s the way that we access experiences that we don’t have firsthand knowledge of. Really high-quality video can do that often. And I don’t think it takes away from getting the information as a reader. I think it amplifies it.

Vicki Davis (09:35): When you talk to teachers and when you’re talking to them at the booth, what are they most excited about? Besides Bluey, obviously.

Kimmie Fink (09:41): I’ve had a lot of excitement around our newsroom. So I think that a lot of people hear BBC and they think news, right? Because, of course, BBC News is quite well known. And we have just launched our newsroom, and we have a daily Newsbite. And so you come in every day, every school day. We have a new one. It’s like a five minute clip. It’s about, you know, some kind of relevant news story. And then there’s questions that go along with it.

People were really excited about it because, again, there’s so much on there. And you were asking, like, where can I start? That’s a great place to start. It’s like, this is a great way to, like, start my day. And we know that media literacy is so important right now and, you know, quite frankly, really lacking. And so that’s been something that teachers have been really excited about as well.

And then we are planning on, as we move into back to school, really gamifying that more. We really want to give teachers that. I mean, I’d play all the New York Times games, you know — like, give them that Wordle experience where they can see how they’re doing compared to other classrooms and they can maybe have a streak or something like that. So that’s coming as well. So we’re getting some good feedback on that.

Vicki Davis (10:44): So if a teacher says, okay, I want to try out these resources — where do they start for what they could use right away?

Kimmie Fink (10:52): Yeah, I mean, I think the Newsbites is something that can be used right away. I would also recommend just go to our homepage. We have a new top nav that we just launched. And I think it does a really good job of showing the breadth of what’s available. So you can go in and there’s science and environment right at the top. There’s social studies, global, international kind of content. And then we have other topics where you can explore, like what we have for like SEL, math and ELA, which we are still building out. But I think that’s a good place.

And we are always updating. So every month, I’ll put something that fits. Like we have an article on the 4th of July and the history behind that. And so if you go to each of those places, we’ll have things that are like germane to whatever time of year it is. And I think that could be a nice entry point as well, right? So you’re coming in in October, you’re going to see some videos on bats because it’s, you know, Halloween is coming. Or you’re going to see a Bluey worksheet that’s on Halloween. So we definitely try to have content that’s relevant to the time.

Vicki Davis (11:47): Okay. Now you said math.

Kimmie Fink (11:49): Yeah, I did.

Vicki Davis (11:50): So could you give me at least one example for math? Because a lot of times people don’t think of math as having great videos, but there are some out there.

Kimmie Fink (11:58): So what we have for math are currently — so we have the Numberblocks. So there’s Numberblocks and Alphablocks, are shows that are distributed by the BBC. And we have licensed a lot of their magazine content as printables. So we have a lot of math printables that you can use. But the video is coming, and it will be more like a kind of like explainer videos.

Vicki Davis (12:19): Oh, that’s awesome. Okay, so as we’re finishing up — what kind of guides the content that you select?

Kimmie Fink (12:25): So we have developed our global knowledge framework, and there’s really five pillars to it of things that guide our — you were asking before about how I make selections, right? So I’m looking at these things. And the first one is media literacy. And then second, we have sustainability and environment, which, of course, makes a lot of sense with what the BBC produces. We have global citizenship — so, you know, knowing more about the world, cultural awareness, cultural relevance — and then financial literacy and digital literacy as well.

We have a mailing list that you can sign up. When you go to the website, you can view all of our videos. You don’t have to be signed in or anything like that. In order to download like a printable or something like that, you’re going to go ahead and log in. It’s really easy. It just takes a few minutes and it’s free. And then when you are logged in, you can do things like create your own playlists. So we have curated playlists — like we have a great penguin playlist. But if you want to do your own and then assign it to students via Google Classroom, you can do all that once you’re logged in and download all the printables that you want. Print them off. Copy them. You’re good to go.

Vicki Davis (13:25): We’ve been talking with Kimmie from the BBC Learning Hub. Thanks for coming on.

Kimmie Fink (13:29): Thank you so much for having me.

Vicki Davis (13:30): The BBC Learning Hub is a free story-driven platform from BBC Studios with more than a thousand classroom resources. You get ad-free video clips from BBC storytelling that teachers and students already love, paired with standards-aligned lesson plans, leveled reading passages, comprehension questions, and printable activities. And you can send it all straight to Google Classroom. They work for pre-K all the way through high school, and every bit of it is free.

This is exactly the kind of high-quality, teacher-ready content I love sharing with you. Real BBC storytelling that makes the lesson come alive without adding to your prep. Build your first playlist at coolcatteacher.com forward slash BBC. Start with Walking with Dinosaurs or the amazing Bluey content for your younger students. That’s coolcatteacher.com forward slash BBC.

Vicki Davis (14:30): Thanks for tuning in to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast. Watch the video version of this podcast and catch my new radio and TV show, Cool Cat Teacher Talk, on YouTube and a radio or TV station near you. Join my Cool Cat Teacher Classroom Matters newsletter at coolcatteacher.com forward slash newsletter. Leave a review if you found this helpful. See you later, educator.